Donald Trump’s Fox News Feud May Be Another Sign The GOP Is Failing

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Donald Trump has announced that he “won’t bother” with Thursday’s Republican debate — the last one before Monday’s Iowa caucuses. It’s certainly not the norm for a leading candidate to bail out on a party event just as primary season is about to begin. But Trump’s decision not to participate Thursday is especially weird because the debate is hosted by Fox News.

In the school of thought that defines parties as networks of actors who have a common purpose, Fox News is easily included as part of the GOP — not just as a sympathetic news outlet, but as a member of the party coalition. So we have a situation where the Republican Party’s polling front-runner is openly feuding with its biggest media outlet. This is not how parties are supposed to work according to many political scientists.

Trump, of course, has already sparred verbally with Fox anchor Megyn Kelly, who moderated the first Republican debate back in August. The incident was one of Trump’s early run-ins with the informal GOP establishment, including media figures such as Kelly and Erick Erickson, who decided to bar Trump from an event the next weekend. But those dust-ups passed quickly. This time, the conflict has intensified, with Trump remarking that Kelly is “not very good at what she does” and withdrawing from the debate.

Pundits and political scientists have been debating for some time who controls presidential nominations, as well as what the 2016 race tells us about that question. The main argument has been whether Trump’s consistent success in the polls undercuts the theory that networked party elites can control the process, winnowing out undesirable candidates and promoting preferred ones.

Now that Trump has been denounced by one major conservative media outlet, National Review, and continued a feud with another, what does this mean for party politics? One of the steadfast claims of the “Party Decides” school is that different types of actors in the coalition don’t really play distinct roles. The density of the networks between, say, official party organizations (like the Iowa Republican Party) and ideological interest groups (like the American Conservative Union) means that these groups share staff and funders, and their overall goals and functions within the party end up being pretty similar: to work toward common policy goals and nominate amenable candidates.

mas http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-to-skip-fox-news-republican-debate/?ex_cid=538twitter

[rmt]

Fox News is probably part of the GOP establishment. In the first debate, they were hostile to Trump and the word after was that the moderators were trying to take him down. The establishment cannot control Trump and so they fear that he will win (but they prefer him to Cruz as Trump is seen as someone who will make a deal). But all that is part of his popularity - the base has seen that the establishment promises and doesn't do what they promise (beholden to big donors). My hope is that Trump (if elected) is beholden to no one and will do what is right for the US (not the big donors/establishment).

[boutons_deux]

"Fox News is probably part of the GOP establishment."

:lol

[pgardn]

Fox News is probably part of the GOP establishment. In the first debate, they were hostile to Trump and the word after was that the moderators were trying to take him down. The establishment cannot control Trump and so they fear that he will win (but they prefer him to Cruz as Trump is seen as someone who will make a deal). But all that is part of his popularity - the base has seen that the establishment promises and doesn't do what they promise (beholden to big donors). My hope is that Trump (if elected) is beholden to no one and will do what is right for the US (not the big donors/establishment).

He will get rid of illegal immigrants without having the foggiest idea how much it will cost. He is playing antiestablishment by pretending he can solve problems that will cost tons of money. But I'd rather have him in than Cruz.

[TheSanityAnnex]

He will get rid of illegal immigrants without having the foggiest idea how much it will cost. He is playing antiestablishment by pretending he can solve problems that will cost tons of money. But I'd rather have him in than Cruz.

I enjoy the huge middle finger he's given to Republicans, Democrats, and the media.

[boutons_deux]

He will get rid of illegal immigrants

no, he won't do shit about immigrants, and MX won't pay for his fantasy border wall. He won't be Pres

[Spurminator]

Fox News is probably part of the GOP establishment.

Yes, and Manu Ginobili is probably from south of the Equator.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Roger Ailes is on the GOP executive council permanently and is the founder/chairman of Fox News.

[SnakeBoy]

He will get rid of illegal immigrants without having the foggiest idea how much it will cost. He is playing antiestablishment by pretending he can solve problems that will cost tons of money. But I'd rather have him in than Cruz.

A touchback policy doesn't have to be all that expensive & isn't even a new idea. For all his rhetoric for the base, that's all Trump is talking about.

I kind of want Trump to become POTUS and propose comprehensive immigration reform with a touchback policy, similar to what McCain/Kennedy were talking about in '07, just to see Ann Coulter freak out and say "we've been betrayed".

[boutons_deux]

Repugs have always, will always block a comprehensive immigration policy.

broken immigration is one their major campaign, not governing, issues.

They didn't do shit from 2001 - 2006, and haven't done shit from 2010 to now.

Boner said no comprehensive, but (very slow) piecemeal reform of their campagning golden goose.

[pgardn]

no, he won't do shit about immigrants, and MX won't pay for his fantasy border wall. He won't be Pres

Ya shittn me?

I would have thought it was all possible...

[pgardn]

A touchback policy doesn't have to be all that expensive & isn't even a new idea. For all his rhetoric for the base, that's all Trump is talking about.

I kind of want Trump to become POTUS and propose comprehensive immigration reform with a touchback policy, similar to what McCain/Kennedy were talking about in '07, just to see Ann Coulter freak out and say "we've been betrayed".

A wall and a roundup are expensive which is what he blathered about.

[mingus]

Repugs have always, will always block a comprehensive immigration policy.

broken immigration is one their major campaign, not governing, issues.

They didn't do shit from 2001 - 2006, and haven't done shit from 2010 to now.

Boner said no comprehensive, but (very slow) piecemeal reform of their campagning golden goose.

Neither party has touched the immigration issue comprehensive or otherwise in any meaningful way because the business elite--those with the most influence over politicians--in this country greatly profits from illegal immigrants, who are inexpensive & exploitable as employees. They're a lot less "to deal with" than American workers. Essentially, it's a way for them to some extent to out-source their jobs with actually re-locating. This, along with NAFTA has dealt a big blow to American workers employment-wise & wage-wise. With the recession and the slow "recovery" have made the impacts more felt. They're both being driven by the "establishment" business elite on both sides of the aisle. I don't particularly think Trump is the answer. I mean, despite what he says he is, he's of that ilk, he's a Wall Sreet guy. Just like Obama's a Wall Street guy. Just like Hillary. The only one who, if you take a look at his track record, isn't a mouthpiece bitch for them is Sanders. The problem I have with him is his prescriptions.

[boutons_deux]

"Neither party has touched the immigration issue comprehensive"

False. There was a pretty comprehensive bi-partisan Senate bill that Boner wouldn't allow in House committee, never mind aloow House vote.

[InRareForm]

CNN : "Fox apologized, but it's too late"

Lolz

[CosmicCowboy]

This was a brilliant move by Trump. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by participating in this debate. Let the others field the tough questions. No answer is gonna please everyone. He is so far ahead in these first primaries that he could give a big fuck you to the system and his backers will still love it.

[ElNono]

It should be damn near impossible for the GOP to lose this election... if they don't manage to pull it off, they really have a lot of soul searching to do...

[baseline bum]

It should be damn near impossible for the GOP to lose this election... if they don't manage to pull it off, they really have a lot of soul searching to do...

It should be impossible when the top two candidate are (1) a guy who will get almost zero support from mexicans and (2) a far right lunatic? Clinton is a truly awful candidate but the Republicans have to nominate someone people hate less than her.

[boutons_deux]

It should be damn near impossible for the GOP to lose this election... if they don't manage to pull it off, they really have a lot of soul searching to do...


1. have you seen, heard the Repug candidates? :lol

2. Repugs have souls?

[Ball Buster]

It's probably just me, but Rand Paul looks like a very good conservative candidate in this debate. Very poised and well thought out. Weird how his poll numbers are so low, behind tight-wads like Cruz and Rubio

[TheSanityAnnex]

This was a brilliant move by Trump. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by participating in this debate. Let the others field the tough questions. No answer is gonna please everyone. He is so far ahead in these first primaries that he could give a big fuck you to the system and his backers will still love it.
Been funny watching CNN praise Trump's move and shit on Huckabee and Santorum for attending.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Curious to see the ratings hit Fox took.

[ElNono]

It should be impossible when the top two candidate are (1) a guy who will get almost zero support from mexicans and (2) a far right lunatic? Clinton is a truly awful candidate but the Republicans have to nominate someone people hate less than her.

But that's their own damn fault. I mean, they dropped the ball terribly in the previous election, and they still haven't figured shit out?

You have 8 years of wear and tear from Democrats, and on top of that shillary, which is unlikable as they come. There should really be no excuses to fuck this up... but I agree, so far they're managing...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But that's their own damn fault. I mean, they dropped the ball terribly in the previous election, and they still haven't figured shit out?

You have 8 years of wear and tear from Democrats, and on top of that shillary, which is unlikable as they come. There should really be no excuses to fuck this up... but I agree, so far they're managing...

You read like wishcasting. Polls are polls and Trump wins the nomination and not the election. 538 has a much bleaker picture for your party.

[ElNono]

You read like wishcasting. Polls are polls and Trump wins the nomination and not the election. 538 has a much bleaker picture for your party.

I don't have a party, tbh. I prefer pendulum swings, as a way to reduce power entrenchment. It's just a preference though, I'm fully aware it doesn't always happen.

BTW, thanks for sharing the link, and I agree so far that they're looking like they're going to flunk it and it's going to be their own damn fault.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't have a party, tbh. I prefer pendulum swings, as a way to reduce power entrenchment. It's just a preference though, I'm fully aware it doesn't always happen.

BTW, thanks for sharing the link, and I agree so far that they're looking like they're going to flunk it and it's going to be their own damn fault.

Fair enough. I see both parties as the same thing.

[Aztecfan03]

It should be damn near impossible for the GOP to lose this election... if they don't manage to pull it off, they really have a lot of soul searching to do...
It would be damn near impossible to win if Trump is the nominee

[spurraider21]

692207283439341568

[HI-FI]

It's probably just me, but Rand Paul looks like a very good conservative candidate in this debate. Very poised and well thought out. Weird how his poll numbers are so low, behind tight-wads like Cruz and Rubio
Paul is still my preferred choice, not sure why he's been doing worse than coked up phonies like Rubio.
Rand isn't perfect but there is no one else I'm excited about. Trump is at least funny I'll give him that but I still can't tell if he's trolling.

[ducks]

This was a brilliant move by Trump. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by participating in this debate. Let the others field the tough questions. No answer is gonna please everyone. He is so far ahead in these first primaries that he could give a big fuck you to the system and his backers will still love it.

Reagan skipped debates to

[angrydude]

Paul is still my preferred choice, not sure why he's been doing worse than coked up phonies like Rubio.
Rand isn't perfect but there is no one else I'm excited about. Trump is at least funny I'll give him that but I still can't tell if he's trolling.

Paul's natural libertarian base somehow decided that because he wasn't as pure libertarian as his father they would rather go with a would be tin pot dictator.

Other republicans don't like him because they assume he is his father who the establishment classes like to rip on as "isolationist."

Meanwhile Trump is talking about closing the border and restricting trade. But he's not an isolationist, no not at all.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Paul's natural libertarian base somehow decided that because he wasn't as pure libertarian as his father they would rather go with a would be tin pot dictator.

Other republicans don't like him because they assume he is his father who the establishment classes like to rip on as "isolationist."

Meanwhile Trump is talking about closing the border and restricting trade. But he's not an isolationist, no not at all.

Ron comes across as country whereas Rand comes across as intellectual. The Trump demographic considers intellectualism condescending.

[boutons_deux]

"Rand comes across as intellectual"

:lol

[ElNono]

Paul is still my preferred choice, not sure why he's been doing worse than coked up phonies like Rubio.
Rand isn't perfect but there is no one else I'm excited about. Trump is at least funny I'll give him that but I still can't tell if he's trolling.

:lol he is trolling and apparently he's gonna try to troll his way to the whitehouse...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"Rand comes across as intellectual"

:lol




As opposed to his father yes. He oozes southern gentry with the way he talks to people. His style reminds me of Jefferson.

The swing voters are the poor white trash. That is his audience here.

I have to say boutox, you would do well to read up on tao and meditation and give that a try.

[boutons_deux]

you would do well to read up on tao and meditation and give that a try.

I'm so far ahead of you in spiritual advancement and sophistication,it's hilarious. Anyway, thanks and GFY

RP is fraud as is libertarianism. Both he and Ron are racists, attract racists.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm so far ahead of you in spiritual advancement and sophistication,it's hilarious. Anyway, thanks and GFY

RP is fraud as is libertarianism. Both he and Ron are racists, attract racists.

of course you are. that is why you put everything in terms of you. jefferson owned slaves btw. racism is an aside.