GM Banking On Even Bigger Tahoe

[Nbadan]

MARK PHELAN: GM has its future riding on new SUVs
Big trucks for '07 will impress
September 21, 2005
BY MARK PHELAN
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

[quote]The new SUV that may spell salvation for General Motors has arrived.

On Thursday, the automaker debuted the 2007 Chevy Tahoe, a bigger, better looking, more powerful and more fuel-efficient truck than its predecessor, which powered GM's profit for the last four years.

The SUV is vital to GM returning to profitability and to the fate of thousands of jobs at assembly plants and suppliers in Detroit and across North America.

It hits the market when some observers think buyers may have turned away from big SUVs because of rising fuel prices and changing tastes.

more:Freep (http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan21e_20050921.htm)

20 Miles Per Gallon!! Mookie can rest a little bit easier, but it's still no hybrid.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Mookie?

[mookie2001]

is it still slow and ugly?

those and the fact that everyone and their mom had one were my major beefs

[Cant_Be_Faded]

The only thing I had against Tahoes were that they think they own the road. When I drive on highways, they always flash me and expect me to completely yield to them, meanwhile, when a Tahoe is going slow, they seriously never scoot over and let you pass them. NEVER.

[mookie2001]

once they sell around 5 million then the numbers just go up and up
because their (great majority of) conservative buyers just love conformity
i mean if they have one, live in stone oak and have a w sticker, than ive got to own one, i just have to

[Vashner]

It's GM's fault anyway.. they went to China 10 years ago with this goal..

"Make china fall in love the the automobile just like america"..

Dumbasses.. hahah...

20 is not as bad as the Nissan titan and it's SUV partner.. 8-9 MPG... same as a full sized Kenworth 18 wheeler...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's stupid bias. People who buy tahoes do so out of need to feel like they're higher off the ground than everyone else. It could look like a giant shlong for all they care.

[Vashner]

HUH? Ok bad milage is one thing but your buying the typical leftist propaganda about why people buy them.

Because if you have a family they are much better for day to day living. People buy then for comfort and room.

If any female buys one to have the big intimidation.. whe will probably be on the cell phone and throwing cigs butts out the window (she's a liberal that hates Bush)..

If any female buys one with kids jumping around and big loads of stuff.. and they are smacking the kids around... (she's a Bush supporter)..

If a guy has an F350 diesel and does not ever use it for any work just to drive around.. ok that's an a-hole... there are a few in town ..

If you need the F350 to work.. then that's not an ahole..

Dude put down the New York Times and smell the real world...

[Nbadan]

Dude put down the New York Times and smell the real world...

The 'real world' is that we just had two severe hurricanes strike the U.S. right in it's gut. Let's face facts, if the remnants of Rita don't drown them first, we are only a year or two away from a CAT5 or CAT4 hurricane significantly striking refinery alley where anywhere from 10-25% of the gas we use nationally is refined.

[Vashner]

The 'real world' is that we just had two severe hurricanes strike the U.S. right in it's gut. Let's face facts, if the remnants of Rita don't drown them first, we are only a year or two away from a CAT5 or CAT4 hurricane significantly striking refinery alley where anywhere from 10-25% of the gas we use nationally is refined.
I was talking about him saying people purchase SUV to feel superior..

I was explaining to him neolibs buy to feel superior... neocons are superior.. in some other words.

[cherylsteele]

20 is not as bad as the Nissan titan and it's SUV partner.. 8-9 MPG... same as a full sized Kenworth 18 wheeler...

Contrary to your "belief" the Titan gets better mileage than you claim
14 city/19 highway Nissan Titan (http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,125642|125644|,00.html)

[ChumpDumper]

Damn you and your facts to hell!

[cherylsteele]

Damn you and your facts to hell!
:lol
By beaux works at Ancira Nissan and has been telling me that the gas mileage is equal to other compareable vehicles on the market and usually less $$$$, plus more towing capacity.

Me I can't afford a big truck like that so I own a little Hyundai Accent. Good mileage, reliable, afforbale...sure it not a Lexus but it is much better than their Excel of the 80's.

[thispego]

2007 Chevy Tahoe
(4WD, 5.3L V8)

Size: 202 inches X 79 inches

Curb weight: 5,537 pounds

MPG: 20.1* combined city/highway

* Estimated
Guesstimated

[Dos]

some of your greatest leftist drive tahoe's...

[Dos]

Kerry's SUV habit fuels a `trust' gap By Boston Herald editorial staff Saturday, April 24, 2004

Now we've truly heard it all. Rising gas prices are the latest John Kerry [related, bio] campaign theme, so naturally the senator was asked this week about his personal vehicle usage.

Kerry insisted, ``I don't own an SUV.''

When pressed about a Chevrolet Suburban, the mother of all SUVs, kept at the Heinz Kerry abode in Idaho, Kerry said: ``The family has it. I don't have it.''

Kerry has now closed the distance between nuance and flat-out deception.

And that's without mentioning the other gas-guzzlers this candidate and his family enjoy, all the while posturing about reducing the nation's dependence on foreign oil and fuel efficiency.

At last count, there were eight ``family'' cars and SUVs, including the 1995 Suburban (15 mpg highway, 12 mpg city), a 1993 Land Rover Defender (12 mpg highway, 10 mpg city), a 1989 Jeep Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 16 mpg city), a 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (20 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001 Audi Allroad (21 mpg highway, 15 mpg city), a 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser (25 mpg highway, 20 mpg city), a 1985 Dodge 600 Convertible (26 mpg highway, 23 mpg city), and a 2002 Chrysler 300M (26 mpg highway, 18 mpg city). Kerry, however, only owns up to the latter two.

[Vashner]

I want a honda civic but I am fat and tall so it's like uh...

Good milage and a somewhat reliable car.

[Vashner]

Contrary to your "belief" the Titan gets better mileage than you claim
14 city/19 highway Nissan Titan (http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,125642|125644|,00.html)

Is that why it has a "poor" (lowest) rating from Consumer Reports on "real world" fuel economy?

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/ConsumerReportsSnapshot.aspx?year=2005&make=Nissan&model=Titan

[Duff McCartney]

some of your greatest leftist drive tahoe's...

Yeah and some righties like Hook Dem also drive Tahoes.

But don't tell him that...we don't know shit about him...we should all drive use 10 gallons less of gas according to him.

[smeagol]

I never understood America's infatuation with big ass cars.

In the 70s it was those huge, ugly Fords (in Argentina we had the Ford Ferlien, not sure you guys has it here), until the gas crisis made Detroit come up with smaller models.

Now its the SUVs.

[Drachen]

I want a honda civic but I am fat and tall so it's like uh...

Good milage and a somewhat reliable car.

get an accord hybrid, or a umm. what is it explorer I think hybrid.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I never understood America's infatuation with big ass cars.

In the 70s it was those huge, ugly Fords (in Argentina we had the Ford Ferlien, not sure you guys has it here), until the gas crisis made Detroit come up with smaller models.

Now its the SUVs.

Commie, go drive a Yugo, you are Anti-American. :lol

We also had that kind of obsession when the economy allowed it. But we had it mixed with admiration for European style cars. Probably the Fords and Chevys were more popular with the lower class, while the European style was something more of upper-middle class thing.

[whottt]

I never understood America's infatuation with big ass cars.



http://www.alexkwake.com/427vette.jpg
http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/Cars/GTO%20-%20Gold/GTO-01-04.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~luukb/cobra11.jpg
http://www.carchaos.com/ford_mustang/shelby_gt500/gt500_left.jpg
http://www.cia.com.au/seale/Boss429blue.jpg

http://www.musclecarnationals.com/gallery/cuda/cuda70.jpg
http://www.dreams-cars.net/images/Fiches_Techniques/Dodge/Dodge_Charger_1968/001.jpg

http://www.mcarsweb.com/americanmotors/amx2.jpg


Sheyittt

Ask not why we like them...ask why you don't. What's next? You going to ask us why we like football and John Wayne?

The question you should be asking yourself...why is it that you don't?

It's just the way our culture is...and it's been pretty successful.



But I mean...you have to ask? Why? Look at em...That's the golden age of the American Automobile right there...it will never be that good again :( *sniff*


The other ones that were big were the roomy luxury cars...but those babies there in the pictures were gasssssss guzzlers...god bless em.

Some of those cars were badass machines for their price range...like that Cobra held the land acceleration record of 0-60 in 4 1/2 seconds(it was expensive though)...

The SUV thing is stupid...the people that drive the big SUV's are people that would never have any use for them really...it's just a status thing...and the funny thing is a lot of them are the same people who consider themselves environmentally concerned. People that live in nice neighborhoods that have absolutely no use for 4wd vehicles...I guess because they look cool.


In the 70s it was those huge, ugly Fords (in Argentina we had the Ford Ferlien

Fairlane perhaps? I don't blame you for hating Big American cars if that is as good as it got in the 70's..Hmmm actually I thought the Fairlanes were Torino's by the 70's..that's the Starsky and Hutch car...what do you mean UGLY ford?



Outside of the Mustangs

, not sure you guys has it here), until the gas crisis made Detroit come up with smaller models.

Now its the SUVs.

Well it's not like they don't have big cars over in Europe...the freaking Jaguars are the king gas guzzlers of all time. Rolls Royces were big ass cars and so were some of those Astin Martins, Bentleys and Austin Healeys, they just cost a lot more. And Porches were pretty big back then too...a lot of old Europe was built centuries ago ,so in town IMO, I don't think they had the room for all the big muscle/luxury cars in their cities, at least not where the average Joe was concerned...and back then we were the world leading Oil producer...Over there Oil is scarce and everyone walks and the roads are small(the autobahns' exluded)...but America came of age in the 20th century and our infrastructure and cities were built to handle those big fast fun motherfuckers.

But again...you don't think Germany and the rest of Europe suck down some gas on those autobahns? Think again.


It was mainly when Toyota came out that cars started getting small..we had some small cars over here back then, even made by American Manufacturers..we just didn't like em.

http://www.rareads.com/scans/362.jpg

Hmmm...


http://www.xs4all.nl/~luukb/cobra11.jpg
http://www.mcarsweb.com/americanmotors/amx2.jpg

or

http://www.rareads.com/scans/362.jpg

Now that's a hard fucking choice, isn't it?

And Volkwagen Beetles and Kharman Ghias were always popular...just not as popular.



Oh yeah...forgot the main reason...We also like to fuck in the backseat, I think it was the number 1 choice of most teenagers for many years(and probably still is) and not only does a big car make it eaiser to do...a big beautiful fast car used to make it much more likely to happen...while it can be fun to try and do that in a Yugo..it's not something I would ever want to make a habit out of.

[Nbadan]

2007 Chevy Tahoe
(4WD, 5.3L V8)

Size: 202 inches X 79 inches

Curb weight: 5,537 pounds

MPG: 20.1* combined city/highway

* Estimated
Guesstimated

YES, but the new Tahoes use cylinder displacement to increase fuel mileage. In city driving the vehicle uses only 4 cylinders.

The fact that these Tahoes are about average mileage-wise is not something we should be proud of. In too many ways to list here now, the muscle car generation existed in the U.S. because cheap fuel existed. The Europeans rarely had cheap fuel, so they had to learn to get the most horse-power out of a tank of gas. When the U.S. had the 70's gas crisis, manufacturers like Toyota, Subaru, Honda, and Mazda become very popular, but back then there weren't nearly as reliable as they are now. Today foreign vehicles can be 15-25% more expensive than their American counterparts because of high demand.

[whottt]

YES, but the new Tahoes use cylinder displacement to increase fuel mileage. In city driving the vehicle uses only 4 cylinders.

The Europeans rarely had cheap fuel, so they had to learn to get the most horse-power out of a tank of gas.


That's horseshit...they did have some bigass cars or haven't you ever seen some of the 8 and 12 cylinder Jags?

The Europeans have made some bad ass gas guzzling musclecars themselves...don't sell them short.

And also...Paris and London are hundreds of years old and built on narrow streets...you can't have a city full of GTOs in Paris.

[Nbadan]

That's horseshit...they did have some bigass cars or haven't you ever seen some of the 8 and 12 cylinder Jags?

Unlike the fuel inefficient Tahoes in the U.S., the 12-cylinder Jags aren't the big sellers in Europe.

[whottt]

That's because the Jags cost an arm and a leg...trust me, the people that can afford them are not worried about fuel efficiency.

They made big cars too...the AC Cobra housed the biggest stock engine ever made for a car...and while the egine was American..the Cobra was originally a European Car.

The major difference is that Europeans tended to place more importance on handling while Americans valued straight away speed...and most of the mid cost American muscle cars were fast enough to keep up with the $$$$$$$$ fast cars in Europe. Now fuel efficiency is a concern....but part of that is self inflicted...they tax the crap out of gas over there, but they pay the same amount for their Oil that we do.

[SWC Bonfire]

I never understood America's infatuation with big ass cars.

In the 70s it was those huge, ugly Fords (in Argentina we had the Ford Ferlien, not sure you guys has it here), until the gas crisis made Detroit come up with smaller models.

Now its the SUVs.

My quick response to that question is that I don't fit in small cars. I'm 6'-6" (1.98m).

[SpursWoman]

I like small cars...if for no other reason that I can't park big ones worth a shit. And that gas thing, too....I hate stopping for it. :lol


And now User's around with his big assin' truck, there are no problems hauling things around. And he's 6'4" ... I almost had to break out the Crisco to get him in my car, it certainly didn't look very comfortable. :makeout

[Useruser666]

A few of my thoughts on this subject.

I have no problem with anything that anyone else drives, as long as they drive it safely.

I would like to see better fuel efficiency from larger vehicles including types like the truck I own.

I don't really take into consideration what people think about the vehicle I drive as long as it fits my needs and likes.

I don't feel it's my place to "tell" other people what to drive.

Sorry, but acting self-righteous about what you drive is laughable.

The Tahoe mentioned in the article was supposed to get better gas milage. I think that aspect seems to have been over looked by that vehicle's critics. Also, it's funny to see people label people who drive certain types of vehicles as certain types of people. Those same people would swear up and down they are not prejudice or biggatoryin nature.

[Slomo]

That's because the Jags cost an arm and a leg...trust me, the people that can afford them are not worried about fuel efficiency.

They made big cars too...the AC Cobra housed the biggest stock engine ever made for a car...and while the egine was American..the Cobra was originally a European Car.

The major difference is that Europeans tended to place more importance on handling while Americans valued straight away speed...and most of the mid cost American muscle cars were fast enough to keep up with the $$$$$$$$ fast cars in Europe. Now fuel efficiency is a concern....but part of that is self inflicted...they tax the crap out of gas over there, but they pay the same amount for their Oil that we do. That's one of the main difference between US and EU sports cars - You just don't hear it very often :tu

Personally I would not own an american SUV for the simple reason that they are just too expensive to run. You have your choice of excellent and economical cars who let you drive in comfort without consuming an oil tanker per year.

But they are great fun! Whenever I'm the US and have some spare (private) time available I always try to rent a typical US car. There are many bad things you can say about them but they are also great fun. Totally different from what we drive over here and for me it's impossible to compare - they're simply american :) Big toys for big boys - unfortuantely we do have to grow up some day.

Therefore as an everyday car - no thanks. I also believe that the majority of SUV owners in the US don't really need SUV features (same in the EU - it's just that there's a lot less SUV over here so it's not that obvious). And yes, I do believe that over consumption of oil is going to fuck us up big time in the not so distant future (some would probably say it already is).

[mookie2001]

tahoes have no speed at all

[Hook Dem]

tahoes have no speed at all
Shows your intellegence on the matter! You may hate Tahoes but it appears you know very little about them. Very untrue statement! If you "hate" Tahoes as much as you exhibit, why don't you just walk away and leave them alone? :rolleyes

[mookie2001]

it has the best speed in its class right?


its slow as shit


naturally a new one could beat my truck
its also 12 years old with 192k miles

[Hook Dem]

it has the best speed in its class right?


its slow as shit


naturally a new one could beat my truck
its also 12 years old with 192k miles
Okay, now we're getting close to what I see as a huge problem with this discussion. You say you drive a truck that is 12 years old. Now, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know that truck gets less gas mileage than my Tahoe. Isn't your reasoning against the Tahoe the gas mileage? You can believe me or not . It doesn't really matter, but my Tahoe gets 21 MPG on the highway and around 18 MPG in town. I am not concerned with "slow" or "speed". Speed will decrease gas mileage in a hurry. Thats a proven fact. That being said, where are you going with your argument? If I can afford a Tahoe and it gets reasonable mileage, what difference does it make to you what I drive other that the fact that you see the Tahoe as a status symbol? I just do not understand your crusade against the Tahoe! I think everyone's driving habits are different and in my case, I don't drive all that much. I'm not trying to top you or piss you off. Just trying to prove a point!

[mookie2001]

no ive said over and over thats not my main reason against

[Hook Dem]

no ive said over and over thats not my main reason against
Then what is it?

[mookie2001]

i have a 5.7 L v8
horrible mileage

i dislike them because of the uncanny ratio of W stickers
the uglyness
the slowness
and the fact that a shitload of people own them
people love to say "tahoe" and "yukon", they fucking love it

[mookie2001]

people think that now, with the current politcal climate and gas prices
that if theyre seen driving one, people will assume theyre rich and conservative

[Hook Dem]

i have a 5.7 L v8
horrible mileage

i dislike them because of the uncanny ratio of W stickers
the uglyness
the slowness
and the fact that a shitload of people own them
people love to say "tahoe" and "yukon", they fucking love it
Well, I think you have stereotyped a bunch of people without warrant. I don't have a W sticker on mine and I don't love to say "Tahoe". I also don't think it's ugly and I don't think it's slow. I really don't care if a "shitload" of people have them. I just happened to really like it. Peace brother.

[mookie2001]

and my biggest reason to hate all gm vehicles

OnStar*

[mookie2001]

well at least you admitted to having one

ive argued with some people so long on here its obvious they have one

[Hook Dem]

and my biggest reason to hate all gm vehicles

OnStar*
I don't have "onstar". Felt it unnecessary! Waste of money!

[smeagol]

Ask not why we like them...ask why you don't. What's next? You going to ask us why we like football and John Wayne?
Football rules.

Nevertheless, I could ask you about baseball and your infatuation with that boring-ass sport.

John Wayne’s cool.


The question you should be asking yourself...why is it that you don't?
I never said I didn’t like them. Actually the cars you posted pictures of are pretty nice, but not the ones I was referring too. But my point was more regarding today’s SUVs, point you have addresses later.


It's just the way our culture is...and it's been pretty successful.
whotttie never fails to rub it in peoples faces how successful America is.



The SUV thing is stupid...the people that drive the big SUV's are people that would never have any use for them really...it's just a status thing...and the funny thing is a lot of them are the same people who consider themselves environmentally concerned. People that live in nice neighborhoods that have absolutely no use for 4wd vehicles...I guess because they look cool.
Agreed.



Fairlane perhaps? I don't blame you for hating Big American cars if that is as good as it got in the 70's..Hmmm actually I thought the Fairlanes were Torino's by the 70's..that's the Starsky and Hutch car...what do you mean UGLY ford?
I thought the Fairlane was a Ford. Like the Falcon. Could a bored Argie reading this thread confirm?

[Hook Dem]

Mookie...you and I have just proven that two people can have a discussion without calling each other names. Thanks! :drunk

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I thought the Fairlane was a Ford. Like the Falcon. Could a bored Argie reading this thread confirm?

It was a Ford, however the car evolved from this (which was the most sold in Argentina):

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/ford-fairlane/images/ford-fairlane-1a.jpg

http://www.avonhill.com/thumbnails/classic/1957_Ford_Fairlane_coupe.jpeg

Into this (which I believe is what whottt was referring):

http://www.linkers.co.uk/Autos/00031-1969%20Ford%20Fairlane%20Cobra%20428-Cobra%20Jet.jpg

http://www.dyna.co.za/cars/1972_Ford_Fairlane_Black.JPG

And I believe whottt isn't talking about "our" Torino, but the Fairlane Torino, which is a completely different car to the one you are thinking of.


Football rules.

Nevertheless, I could ask you about baseball and your infatuation with that boring-ass sport.

No, both are boring as hell!

[SWC Bonfire]

I thought the Fairlane was a Ford. Like the Falcon. Could a bored Argie reading this thread confirm?

Yes, the Fairlane was the predecessor to the Torino, I believe. It is possible that they continued the older model overseas, or continued to market it as a Fairlane so that they wouldn't have the expense of marketing a new nameplate.

[Duff McCartney]

That's horseshit...they did have some bigass cars or haven't you ever seen some of the 8 and 12 cylinder Jags?

The Europeans have made some bad ass gas guzzling musclecars themselves...don't sell them short.

And also...Paris and London are hundreds of years old and built on narrow streets...you can't have a city full of GTOs in Paris.

My Sociology teacher told me when he was stationed in Germany in 1964...there was already somebody that had an electric car in Germany.

This was in 1964!!!

[SWC Bonfire]

My Sociology teacher told me when he was stationed in Germany in 1964...there was already somebody that had an electric car in Germany.

This was in 1964!!!

There were electric cars before the internal combustion engine caught on.