The varieties of Kawhi's post game.

[midnightpulp]

I've been against "force feeding" or overusing Kawhi in the post, but I think I should clarify that not all post situations are equal. I'm wholeheartedly against Kawhi being used like Kobe, where he gets the ball in the high-high post on the wing about 12-18 feet from the basket and Dreamshakes for 15 seconds only to lauch up a fadeaway jumper. It's an inefficient and ball stopping option. And it's why Kobe, as good as his per game stats are, has underwhelming metrics for a player of his caliber. It might look pretty and raise per game scoring averages, but it causes the offense to stagnate.

But I love, love, the "dribble into the post game." This is where Kawhi keeps his dribble active and navigates toward the center of the court and into the paint. Forward to 1:40 and you'll see Hakeem doing a couple of "dribble into the post moves."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22O2lApCBBs

It's a much, much superior variety than the Kobe-style. You can't really swarm it and it collapses the defense much like good penetration, so it keeps your offense in motion rather than standing around and ball watching (like the Lakers role players have notoriously done for the last decade).

If this is what Kawhi's biggest fans on here mean by "post," then I'm all for using it as much as possible. So yes, "Gib bawl to Kiwi in poast."

But the Kobe/Carmelo-style :vomit:

And we need some gifs of Kawhi's dribble-post moves. He's had some pretty ones over the past few games. :toast

[dabom]

Everyone wants KAwhi to get it in the low post but the entry passer can't fucking do it. A team learning process. Kawhi himself is a GREAT entry passer but he can't pass it to himself. The team as a whole needs to practice entry passes for the love of god.

[dabom]

This is not a Kawhi problem. This is a team problem. Even Sean says it like every other game.

[dabom]

The fact that you thought Kawhi wants it 12+ feet out makes me realize you need to go watch more basketball. :lmao

[NameLess Scrub]

Man.. Hakeem and his footwork.

[spurraider21]

Man.. Hakeem and his footwork.
its like mchale + athleticism

[benefactor]

People who didn't watch Dream in person just don't understand. There has literally never been another player like him. I don't think we will ever see anything like him again.

[benefactor]

That move on DRob at 4:38...Jesus.

[apalisoc_9]

I told you this on the other thread. Post up id not force feeding. Rewatch atlanta last year.

Least you could have done is take the L..now your using my whole point as your original thought in a new thread.

Dissapointed in yoy mid

[dabom]

I told you this on the other thread. Post up id not force feeding. Rewatch atlanta last year.

Least you could have done is take the L..now your using my whole point as your original thought in a new thread.

Dissapointed in yoy mid

I was just going to say this. The dude needs to move on already. He is pretty shook though. :lol

[midnightpulp]

I told you this on the other thread. Post up id not force feeding. Rewatch atlanta last year.

Least you could have done is take the L..now your using my whole point as your original thought in a new thread.

Dissapointed in yoy mid

Take what loss?

You didn't define what type of post-play?

Low post? Kobe-style post? Dribble posts? When you made your Kawhi has the prettiest post game since prime Kobe, that implied you're a fan of him getting the ball in the "Kobe spot."

Kobe-style posts are garbage. Why do you think Melo and Kobe, even at his peak, have relatively low +/-/RAPM metrics and the like? Nothing stagnates an offense more or is easier to defend than a wing player posting up from the midrange out beyond on the elbow. It doesn't collapse defenses, doesn't force as much defensive rotation, and is a harder spot to playmake from. To be clear, this is the spot on the floor I'm referring to, the Kobe spot:

http://oi64.tinypic.com/fohboi.jpg

Pop knows this. Kawhi's "Kobe posts" aren't as frequent as they once were and we're seeing more dribble-posting going toward the middle of the floor (better for drawing in defense and gives the offensive player more passing options).

I didn't make this thread to pretend I had an original idea, just to clarify what kind of post play I'm against.

[dabom]

Took this dude 1 hour to lurk and reply. Fucking loser. :lmao

Keeps thinking Kawhi doesn't want it in the low post. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Took this dude 1 hour to lurk and reply. Fucking loser. :lmao

Keeps thinking Kawhi doesn't want it in the low post. :lmao

:lol Paying attention to my user activity.

"Kiwi want bawl in low poast. :cry"

And why do you think I'm blaming Kawhi? He'll follow Pop's gameplan. If he was Kobe-posting more than posting down on the block or dribble posting, then it's on Pop, which is why I said he made the adjustment to have Kawhi shift into more dribble-posting.

And having a SF operate in the low post with two other low post bigs isn't that good for spacing.

[Kawhitstorm]

But I love, love, the "dribble into the post game." This is where Kawhi keeps his dribble active and navigates toward the center of the court and into the paint. Forward to 1:40 and you'll see Hakeem doing a couple of "dribble into the post moves."

It's a much, much superior variety than the Kobe-style. You can't really swarm it and it collapses the defense much like good penetration, so it keeps your offense in motion rather than standing around and ball watching (like the Lakers role players have notoriously done for the last decade).


The move Hakeem made at 1:40 is actually a Manu/Porker/Wade special, Gary Payton also used it.:lol

Besides, Kawhi plays bully ball like Melo rather than trying to pump fake defenders out of their shoe like Kirby/Wade. What Kawhi needs is counters like Hakeem to be unstoppable in the post b/c you'll see him often passing out the ball when the defender stops his initial move for a fadeaway or jump hook. An up-&-under or being able to finish w/ his left (so he could show one way & go the other) will help him tremendously.

[dabom]

:lol Paying attention to my user activity.

"Kiwi want bawl in low poast. :cry"

And why do you think I'm blaming Kawhi? He'll follow Pop's gameplan. If he was Kobe-posting more than posting down on the block or dribble posting, then it's on Pop, which is why I said he made the adjustment to have Kawhi shift into more dribble-posting.

And having a SF operate in the low post with two other low post bigs isn't that good for spacing.

So fucking retarded bro. Usually Kawhi starts in the low block and his teammates can't send an entry pass so he moves out to the perimeter.

Then he just starts in the perimeter because he knows that's the hardest pass his teammates can make.

It's like you don't watch Spurs basketball faggot. :lmao

[dabom]

Mid needs to reevaluate himself so he can be a good poster again. :toast

[spurraider21]

Mid needs to stroke kiwi's shaft so he can be a good poster again. :toast

[midnightpulp]

So fucking retarded bro. Usually Kawhi starts in the low block and his teammates can't send an entry pass so he moves out to the perimeter.

Then he just starts in the perimeter because he knows that's the hardest pass his teammates can make.

It's like you don't watch Spurs basketball faggot. :lmao

Seriously?

There's no team nor scheme on this planet that would start off their SF in the low block, especially one that is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league :lol

Now, when they go small and Kawhi is at the 4, it's a different story. But in most cases, Kawhi will start off an offensive possession on the perimeter, from either the 3 point line or the mid-range. Do you understand how deadly Kawhi is when catches the ball behind the arc? Defenses have to close because of how great a shooter he is. If he doesn't shoot the 3, he can drive, pull up from the mid range, or dribble-post. And he has a variety of playmaking options from that scenario.

:lol Wanting Kawhi to play like a big man. I'm not against him in the low post in small ball sets, but you're more retarded than I previously thought if you think he should be used a lot in the low post alongside Tim Duncan and LMA.

Stay tuned. I think it's time to do a play-by-play and show your lot just how Kawhi is doing most of his offensive damage lately.

[midnightpulp]

And what's funny is I'm singing Kawhi's praises. But the retarded crew wants him used like Kirby/Melo because of fanboy reasons. Basically for the team to stand around and watch Kawhi "go to work."

[dabom]

Shut up faggot you don't know what you're talking about. I already explained it to you. You don't know shit about basketball. Kevin love type player. Needs more spacing. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Shut up faggot you don't know what you're talking about. I already explained it to you. You don't know shit about basketball. Kevin love type player. Needs more spacing. :lmao

"No one can make entry passes :cry"

Which is funny considering Tim Duncan is on the team, and Parker and Manu have been playing with him for over a decade.

I'll make it simple.

Kawhi getting the ball on the perimeter in a triple threat position (yes, he can dribble into the post from there) :tu

Kawhi playing Kobeball :vomit:

[dabom]

Did you just name drop Duncan like he entry passes to Kawhi? What a fucking joke. :lmao

[dabom]

I rarely see Tony parker do it since he is always looking for his and Manu is always running the show with the second unit and he is rarely going to go for a Kawhi post up.

It's like you don't watch the Spurs fucking play faggot. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Did you just name drop Duncan like he entry passes to Kawhi? What a fucking joke. :lmao

Jesus. I think you just might be retarded. Not in the Internet sense, but actually a special needs case.

What color is your helmet?

[dabom]

You are a fucking moron dude. Serious. No one is even coming in here an agreeing with you. All the hate I get and no one is telling me I'm wrong besides you OP who made the thread. :lmao

[dabom]

Read between the line brah. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

You are a fucking moron dude. Serious. No one is even coming in here an agreeing with you. All the hate I get and no one is telling me I'm wrong besides you OP who made the thread. :lmao

You're wrong.

Plenty of Spurs can make passes into the low post. How do you think Tim Duncan got the ball all those years?

[dabom]

You're wrong.

Plenty of Spurs can make passes into the low post. How do you think Tim Duncan got the ball all those years?

And where does he get it now? A couple of feet outside from the low block. Whether it is because of strength or actually worse entry passes, he still gets it further from the basket than his prime.

And all the great passes come from Kawhi.

Dude go watch some more basketball before you come debating me. :lmao

[SpursIndonesia]

Did you just name drop Duncan like he entry passes to Kawhi? What a fucking joke. :lmao

Duncan was brought into the discussion as a living proof that the Spurs were and are still more than adequate in post entry passing skill, i presume.

But i am just an Indonesian with a shitty command of english language, for sure. :lol

[mookie2001]

He needs to get easier shots than double-deke one on one fadeaways. With his ability to get to the rim he should be punishing opponents on offense the same way he does on defense. Kawhi should be getting to the line much more frequently and working the refs for late-game situations. Yeah he makes it look easy but those aren't easy shots, when we aren't moving the ball, when the defense knows it's coming, when they're doubling, when he's going against bigger defenders.


I've been critical of Kawhi and he's improved in every other area except his free throw and referee game.

[dabom]

Duncan was brought into the discussion as a living proof that the Spurs were and are still more than adequate in post entry passing skill, i presume.

But i am just an Indonesian with a shitty command of english language, for sure. :lol


And where does he get it now? A couple of feet outside from the low block. Whether it is because of strength or actually worse entry passes, he still gets it further from the basket than his prime.

And all the great passes come from Kawhi.

Dude go watch some more basketball before you come debating me. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

And where does he get it now? A couple of feet outside from the low block. Whether it is because of strength or actually worse entry passes, he still gets it further from the basket than his prime.

And all the great passes come from Kawhi.

Dude go watch some more basketball before you come debating me. :lmao

So Tony and Manu just magically lost of their passing skill in that regard?

Sure, big guy.

In any event, the best place for Kawhi to get the ball is on the perimeter, especially now that his dribbling has improved greatly. Where did he get the ball on his game winner last night? Exactly.

The only time Kawhi should get the ball in the low post is in small ball sets where he's the 4 or in lineups with Boris at the 4 who can stretch the floor.

And rarely in the Kobe-spot.

[dabom]

I've been against "force feeding" or overusing Kawhi in the post, but I think I should clarify that not all post situations are equal. I'm wholeheartedly against Kawhi being used like Kobe, where he gets the ball in the high-high post on the wing about 12-18 feet from the basket and Dreamshakes for 15 seconds only to lauch up a fadeaway jumper. It's an inefficient and ball stopping option. And it's why Kobe, as good as his per game stats are, has underwhelming metrics for a player of his caliber. It might look pretty and raise per game scoring averages, but it causes the offense to stagnate.

But I love, love, the "dribble into the post game." This is where Kawhi keeps his dribble active and navigates toward the center of the court and into the paint. Forward to 1:40 and you'll see Hakeem doing a couple of "dribble into the post moves."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22O2lApCBBs

It's a much, much superior variety than the Kobe-style. You can't really swarm it and it collapses the defense much like good penetration, so it keeps your offense in motion rather than standing around and ball watching (like the Lakers role players have notoriously done for the last decade).

If this is what Kawhi's biggest fans on here mean by "post," then I'm all for using it as much as possible. So yes, "Gib bawl to Kiwi in poast."

But the Kobe/Carmelo-style :vomit:

And we need some gifs of Kawhi's dribble-post moves. He's had some pretty ones over the past few games. :toast


So Tony and Manu just magically lost of their passing skill in that regard?

Sure, big guy.

In any event, the best place for Kawhi to get the ball is on the perimeter, especially now that his dribbling has improved greatly. Where did he get the ball on his game winner last night? Exactly.

The only time Kawhi should get the ball in the low post is in small ball sets where he's the 4 or in lineups with Boris at the 4 who can stretch the floor.

And rarely in the Kobe-spot.

You have to stop contradicting yourself faggot. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

You have to stop contradicting yourself faggot. :lmao

You're beyond retarded now. You've gone Koolaid Man level, bro.

[dabom]

You're beyond retarded now. You've gone Koolaid Man level, bro.

Did you just see yourself? :lmao

I can't stop laughing at your dumbass self. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Did you just see yourself? :lmao

I can't stop laughing at your dumbass self. :lmao

Ok, Kool.

Think about the differences between how (and where) Kobe gets the ball on the perimeter and how Lebron, Durant, and now Kawhi get it. Make sure to wear your helmet since this kind of difficult thinking could cause special needs cases like yourself to faint from exhaustion.

Think hard, and then get back to me. I'm tired of spelling things out for you.

[dabom]

Ok, Kool.

Think about the differences between how (and where) Kobe gets the ball on the perimeter and how Lebron, Durant, and now Kawhi get it. Make sure to wear your helmet since this kind of difficult thinking could cause special needs cases like yourself to faint from exhaustion.

Think hard, and then get back to me. I'm tired of spelling things out for you.

Better yet, explain to me how a kevin love type player is better for this team. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

No one is even coming in here an agreeing with you. All the hate I get and no one is telling me I'm wrong besides you OP who made the thread. :lmao

What an obviously shitty appeal to popularity.

Lookout, mid, apa's crew is going to call you names. :lol

[dabom]

What an obviously shitty appeal to popularity.

Lookout, mid, apa's crew is going to call you names. :lol

The usual faggot bold bond between the catpicgroup. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

The usual faggot bold bond between the catpicgroup. :lmao

"Hi, I'm dabom. 90% of my posts are about homosexuality. No, why would that be a problem that I'd rather talk about gay dudes than basketball on an NBA internet forum?"

[dabom]

"Hi, I'm dabom. 90% of my posts are about homosexuality. No, why would that be a problem that I'd rather talk about gay dudes than basketball on an NBA internet forum?"

Faggot. :lmao

3rd grader trying to lash out. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Faggot. :lmao

3rd grader trying to lash out. :lmao

You'd still rather talk about dudes being gay than basketball, eh dabom?

[ChumpDumper]

Faggot. :lmao

3rd grader trying to lash out. :lmaoIronic.

[dabom]

You'd still rather talk about dudes being gay than basketball, eh dabom?

If you are gay man, I have no prejudice. Just calling you a faggot is all. I'll tone it down on you if really are gay. Sorry brah. :toast

[Cry Havoc]

If you are gay man, I have no prejudice. Just calling you a faggot is all. I'll tone it down on you if really are gay. Sorry brah. :toast

Just let me know when you'd like to talk about basketball instead of homosexuals, dabom. It's up to you. I'll talk basketball with you, but I have no interest in the other discussion. You, however, seem pretty damn obsessed with bringing it up every 5 minutes. Why do you think that is?

[dabom]

Just let me know when you'd like to talk about basketball instead of homosexuals, dabom. It's up to you. I'll talk basketball with you, but I have no interest in the other discussion. You, however, seem pretty damn obsessed with bringing it up every 5 minutes. Why do you think that is?

Sorry for exposing you brah...

[Cry Havoc]

Sorry for exposing you brah...

We can talk basketball any time. You obviously would prefer to discuss men having sex with each other. No judgment here, I just prefer to talk hoops. You let me know when you'd rather talk hoops than homosexuality.

[dabom]

We can talk basketball any time. You obviously would prefer to discuss men having sex with each other. No judgment here, I just prefer to talk hoops. You let me know when you'd rather talk hoops than homosexuality.

Ok faggot. :lmao

[spurraider21]

:lmao dabom getting destroyed per par

[dabom]

:lmao dabom getting destroyed per par

Get a room you guys. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

You are a fucking moron dude. Serious. No one is even coming in here an agreeing with you. All the hate I get and no one is telling me I'm wrong besides you OP who made the thread. :lmao

And when someone else does comment:


Get a room you guys. :lmao

More references to guys having sex. Why are you so obsessed with men fucking each other, dabom?

[dabom]

When OP is losing a debate...

You tools, cryfaggot, spunkfaggot, chumpfaggot to the rescue. :lmao

[SAGirl]

I like this thread. I learned a lot since I never watched Hakeem play and I am a relatively new NBA fan, and post play is not as creative.. TD is not great in the post at this stage, Diaw is one of my favorites, but its a decaying art.

Props to mid. Thanks for sharing this insight.
:flag:

[NameLess Scrub]

I like this thread. I learned a lot since I never watched Hakeem play and I am a relatively new NBA fan, and post play is not as creative.. TD is not great in the post at this stage, Diaw is one of my favorites, but its a decaying art.

Props to mid. Thanks for sharing this insight.
:flag:


I have to second this.

I watched Hakeem during his title run. It was a pleasure and I enjoyed that vid.
He made Shaq look like a noob in the '95 finals and I loved it.

[Cry Havoc]

I like this thread. I learned a lot since I never watched Hakeem play and I am a relatively new NBA fan, and post play is not as creative.. TD is not great in the post at this stage, Diaw is one of my favorites, but its a decaying art.

Props to mid. Thanks for sharing this insight.
:flag:

Hakeem was absolutely unstoppable. I think his first title run and Duncan's 03 run are the two most dominant playoff performances in NBA history. They had absolutely bit parts around them, teams that had no business making the playoffs, and won a title.

[TDfan2007]

You're wrong.

Plenty of Spurs can make passes into the low post. How do you think Tim Duncan got the ball all those years?

:lol don't bother. These guys think Tony is the spawn of Satan whose mission is to ruin Kawhi's career and stats.

[Chinook]

Been talking about getting Kawhi quality post-up opportunities for a long time now. The difference is night and day between when the Spurs run good action into a post-up and when they force it. Couple of things. The Spurs a good at throwing entry passes. So few of them result in TOs despite players going for steals because they know they can't check Kawhi (and LMA) one-on-one. I will say, outside of high-lows, Green is usually the one making the entry passes, because his gravity discourages help.

The other thing is that there is a major defensive issue when posting up smalls. It hurts transition defense, because it can very often result with only one small above the FTLE. If the post-up doesn't work, the other team might get an easy run-out. Also, LMA isn't much of a floor-spacer with his zero made threes this year. So I expect the better teams to start scheming about that.

[SpursBig3s]

Sorry for exposing you brah...

Idk why, but this post literally made me LOL :lol

[dabom]

Idk why, but this post literally made me LOL :lol

:lol






:tu

[midnightpulp]

Been talking about getting Kawhi quality post-up opportunities for a long time now. The difference is night and day between when the Spurs run good action into a post-up and when they force it. Couple of things. The Spurs a good at throwing entry passes. So few of them result in TOs despite players going for steals because they know they can't check Kawhi (and LMA) one-on-one. I will say, outside of high-lows, Green is usually the one making the entry passes, because his gravity discourages help.

The other thing is that there is a major defensive issue when posting up smalls. It hurts transition defense, because it can very often result with only one small above the FTLE. If the post-up doesn't work, the other team might get an easy run-out. Also, LMA isn't much of a floor-spacer with his zero made threes this year. So I expect the better teams to start scheming about that.

Great point. Add that to yet another reason why forcing wings into the low post is a great idea.

The majority of Kawhi's offensive possessions should start above the 3 point line with him faced up. Sure, he can do a couple of Kobe-posts now and then and go to the low post when the situation/lineup warrants it, but most of the time it should be the former.