SI does it's own all-time Rankings

[Killakobe81]

For story click here (http://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/09/michael-jordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest)

Highlights:

1. 1- MJ, 2-Kareem, 3- Wilt, 4-Magic 5-LeBron :toast
2. Bird 7th, Duncan 10th, Kobe 12th (again) :wow
3. Moses 14th, Shaq 15th Hakeem 16th, Malone 17th :wow
4. Chuck 20th, Wade 25th, Gervin 26th, Robinson 28th :wakeup
5. Isiah 29th, Stockton 30th, Curry 31st, KG 34th and Dirk 37th :wakeup

This writer is well known and voted on the original NBA top 50 greatest this article is how he would update that 50 and his order ...discuss.
Did he do better than ESPN?
Does the fact another major media outlet that has Duncan over Kobe, Magic over Bird, Mj over Kareem, Isiah over Stockton end or at least influences those debates?

[DMC]

Duncan > Kobe

Nothing else matters

[Silver&Black]

12th again

[UZER]

Not that it matters in the end, but why is Bird always still ahead of Duncan?

[Killakobe81]

Duncan > Kobe

Nothing else matters

to you, apparently.
I already conceded that, btw.
Just thought another perspective was good.

[Killakobe81]

Not that it matters in the end, but why is Bird always still ahead of Duncan?

Puzzling. I get the impact on the league. he also had a peak that was otherwordly. But he never repeated despite having HOF team-mates ...I know Duncan hasnt and had the better coach but I would put Duncan over Bird too.

[Spurtacular]

Not that it matters in the end, but why is Bird always still ahead of Duncan?

I could live with Duncan over Bird (given how great Duncan has been and his longevity); but are you really acting like there's no justification for arguably the GOAT player to be ahead of Duncan?

[benefactor]

The legend of 12 grows.

[BD24]

His top 10 is a little funky. I think putting west and the big o inside the top 10 is kind of ridiculous. Also a little crazy that he has Shaq and Hakeem so low. He seems to have a clear bias towards old time players imo

[Killakobe81]

I could live with Duncan over Bird (given how great Duncan has been and his longevity); but are you really acting like there's no justification for arguably the GOAT player to be ahead of Duncan?

Larry is the Legend ...
But GOAT? Nah.
Jordan ended that.
LeBron with another ring probably knock him out of GOAT SF as well ...and some lists like these have already done that.

Of course you can make an argument for Bird over Timmy. or Timmy over bird. or Bird over Tim. It's just rankings.

[DMC]

This is one person's list. Everyone here could have a list. If we collectively decided on it and we were a spattering of fans from all NBA teams and we all knew a lot about each player, that would be more legit. This is SI's way of trying to keep up. This and sending me magazines I didn't order.

[DMC]

Larry is the Legend ...
But GOAT? Nah.
Jordan ended that.
LeBron with another ring probably knock him out of GOAT SF as well ...and some lists like these have already done that.

Of course you can make an argument for Bird over Timmy. or Timmy over bird. or Bird over Tim. It's just rankings.

Yeah rankings are unimportant. Let's ignore 12 now.


nah

[Killakobe81]

His top 10 is a little funky. I think putting west and the big o inside the top 10 is kind of ridiculous. Also a little crazy that he has Shaq and Hakeem so low. He seems to have a clear bias towards old time players imo

Fair points. But EL if you never saw those old guys wouldnt you have bias towards more recent players?

That is why I don't include Oscar, Dill, West etc on my personal list. I bet I am older than you and I never saw them play.

But I would trust him who did see most of those guys play ...over guys that ONLY use metrics and started watching the NBA in jordan era or later. How can they properly rate Kareem?

[Killakobe81]

Yeah rankings are unimportant. Let's ignore 12 now.


nah

Dumbass. Who just posted a rankings where Kobe is 12th. Did I have to do that? I did n ot say ignore them. it's just rankings it's a topic of conversation with no games on ...
We had ESPN now we have SI that has Kobe 12th. Two major institutions. My point was not to get hung up on where but discuss why you agree or don't ...

Stop being fucking dense people are actually talking hoops, here. Save the internet brawls for Cully or Kool.

[Mitch]

That list is almost as bad

[BD24]

Fair points. But EL if you never saw thos guys wouldnt you have bias towards more recent players?

That is why I don't include Oscar, Dill, West etc. I bet I am older than you and I never saw them play.

But I woudl trust him who dis see most of those guys play ...over guys that ONLY use metrics and started watching the NBA in jordan era or later. How can they properly rate Kareem?
I really do hate comparing players across generations like that. It was such a different game then than it is now. I never watched them true, but they are not putting up those gaudy numbers in today's league. Russell isn't winning all of those titles in today's league. I mean put Shaq in the 1960s where he can just camp out under the hoop and I imagine he can drop 100 as well and put up numbers like wilt did.

[DMC]

Dumbass. Who just posted a rankings where Kobe is 12th. Did I have to do that? I did n ot say ignore them. it's just rankings it's a topic of conversation with no games on ...
We had ESPN now we have SI that has Kobe 12th. Two major institutions. My point was not to get hung up on where but discuss why you agree or don't ...

Stop being fucking dense people are actually talking hoops, here. Save the internet brawls for Cully or Kool.

12 has caused you to start a leveling campaign.

12

[Killakobe81]

This is one person's list. Everyone here could have a list. If we collectively decided on it and we were a spattering of fans from all NBA teams and we all knew a lot about each player, that would be more legit. This is SI's way of trying to keep up. This and sending me magazines I didn't order.

:lol Ok, that was funny.

I get what you are saying but I bet 75% of this forum knows shit about hoops pre-jordan era ...and I bet a great deal only know the NBA from the 90's on.
You are right it's just one writer but a well respected one who I have been reading since I was a shorty. He also places Duncan over Kobe and has Kobe 12th. He definitely has more credibility to me than the ESPN list ...some of those writers are jordan era writers too.

[Killakobe81]

12 has caused you to start a leveling campaign.

12

How is this leveling? he is 12th in both lists ...that doesnt make any sense, DMC.

[Spurtacular]

Larry is the Legend ...
But GOAT? Nah.
Jordan ended that.
LeBron with another ring probably knock him out of GOAT SF as well ...and some lists like these have already done that.

Of course you can make an argument for Bird over Timmy. or Timmy over bird. or Bird over Tim. It's just rankings.

Bird beat Jordan 14 straight times. The idea that MJ is a consensual GOAT is a media contraption. And Lebron is not better than Bird; no way, no how.

[Killakobe81]

That list is almost as bad

All lists are to El's point tough to rank across generations but you play the schedule in front of you ...

[DMC]

How is this leveling? he is 12th in both lists ...that doesnt make any sense, DMC.

"It's just ranking"

[Killakobe81]

Bird beat Jordan 14 straight times. The idea that MJ is a consensual GOAT is a media contraption. And Lebron is not better than Bird; no way, no how.

You mean consensus but I get your point. It's not a consensus Some old timers will argue Kareem or Wilt over MJ ... and I promise you if Lebron had two more rings there would be plenty that would argue he was the GOAT already. Especially the metrics guys.

[Killakobe81]

"It's just ranking"

Above that I just said i give credit to this guy because I know he has been following the game for a number of years. Still dont see how this levels anything it's further validation of "12".

I thought you would find joy but you are like Mulder looking for a conspiracy that is not there. Instead of chasing aliens and looking for the fiends on the grassy knoll why dont you go home and bang Scully?

[DMC]

Above that I just said i give credit to this guy because I know he has been following the game for a number of years. Still dont see how this levels anything it's further validation of "12".

I thought you would find joy but you are like Mulder looking for a conspiracy that is not there. Instead of chasing aliens and looking for the fiends on the grassy knoll why dont you go home and bang Scully?

You're in desperation mode now. Keep that leveling going. Eventually maybe you'll create the impression that there is no spoon.

[Killakobe81]

You're in desperation mode now. Keep that leveling going. Eventually maybe you'll create the impression that there is no spoon.

Desperation from what? None of this is even that serious ...Im sitting here laughing at your posts. Thanks for the unintentional comedy ...

[hater]

another bad list. I guess these writers don't value championships as much as they should. In the end it's who was left standing in the end. then you add domination and career in the equation

My list and the correct one:
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Lebron
10. Kobe

[DMC]

Desperation from what? None of this is even that serious ...Im sitting here laughing at your posts. Thanks for the unintentional comedy ...

KillaKobe81


12


Keep leveling

[Killakobe81]

KillaKobe81


12


Keep leveling

If it helps you in anyway ... you won!
I confess! An article that places Kobe 12th and also behind Tim is me "leveling".
Again just like in your most famous thread you were right EVERYONE else was wrong!!!

Now let me get back on topic I see someone else has decided to talk hoops instead of trying to measure virtual dicks on the internet or prove how big their brain is.

[DMC]

If it helps you in anyway ... you won!
I confess! An article that places Kobe 12th and also behind Tim is me "leveling".
Again just like in your most famous thread you were right EVERYONE else was wrong!!!

Now let me get back on topic I see someone else has decided to talk hoops instead of trying to measure virtual dicks on the internet or prove how big their brain is.

Yeah ranking is unimportant. Honk honk look, nothing but entertainment! I'm not upset!!! GODDAMNIT!!!! FUCK YOU!Q!!!!!

signed - Killakobe81

[Killakobe81]

another bad list. I guess these writers don't value championships as much as they should. In the end it's who was left standing in the end. then you add domination and career in the equation

My list and the correct one:
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Lebron
10. Kobe

Pretty solid list. I swap Lebron and Bird*, Kobe and Shaq, Kareem and Wilt but those are just quibbles. But you did just say rings matter so I get Bird over James but Kareem has plenty more rings than wilt ...

*If Lebron never rings again I may reconsider. But Lebron already has a longer career than Bird and was probably more dominant. Interesting debate though.

[Killakobe81]

Yeah ranking is unimportant. Honk honk look, nothing but entertainment! I'm not upset!!! GODDAMNIT!!!! FUCK YOU!Q!!!!!

signed - Killakobe81

Off the rails. Please post your ranks or more thoughts on the article or poster lists like the one above or get out of my thread. Thanks.

[DMC]

Pretty solid list. I swap Lebron and Bird*, Kobe and Shaq, Kareem and Wilt but those are just quibbles. But you did just say rings matter so I get Bird over James but Kareem has plenty more rings than wilt ...

*If Lebron never rings again I may reconsider. But Lebron already has a longer career than Bird and was probably more dominant. Interesting debate though.

lol "ranking isn't important, I'm not leveling"

"I'd swap Kobe and Shaq"

12

[Killakobe81]

lol "ranking isn't important, I'm not leveling"

"I'd swap Kobe and Shaq"

12




Damn, you are a special kind of retard. Why would I post a list if I did not want to discuss it? If that is what you mean by leveling then yes I am guilty. But not sure what your point is? I think kobe is a borderline top 10 player all eras if you say modern era only he is top 10 in my book right behind duncan just ahead of Shaq ...if that is leveling then Ok I am leveling ...

now can you get back on topic?

[DMC]

Damn, you are a special kind of retard. Why would I post a list if I did not want to discuss it? If that is what you mean by leveling then yes I am guilty. But not sure what your point is? I think kobe is a borderline top 10 player all eras if you say modern era only he is top 10 in my book right behind duncan just ahead of Shaq ...if that is leveling then Ok I am leveling ...

now can you get back on topic?

Why would you go looking for a 2nd opinion if it wasn't important to you? lol

12 got you flustered

[Killakobe81]

Why would you go looking for a 2nd opinion if it wasn't important to you? lol

12 got you flustered

I did not go looking. I read SI.com on the regular tough guy. And if I wanted to "level" they posted an article days before that had Kobe much higher though it was only a list of the best player not on the original 50 so I did not post.
I thought this one had more merit though because it was apples to apples.

12 like i said is fine by my me highest I could argue is maybe 9th tbh ...

And running around posting 12th or leveling in bold font doesnt mean you won.
It just means you biting thread's shit.
Like Nas once told Jay (paraphrasing) ...

How many of Cully's schticks gonna come out your fat fingers, DMC?

[Thread]

How many of Cully's schticks gonna come out your fat fingers, DMC?

More & more each day. He's absolutely adorable.

[Killakobe81]

More & more each day. He's absolutely adorable.

He is but a bit bi-polar. He shits on you one minute then sings your praises. Like the kid in 4th grade that has a crush on his first blonde, doesnt know how or have the courage to ask her for a kiss but punches her instead. Valentines comes around and he puts that extra piece of candy in her card box.

That DMC is confused but he loves him, some Cully. Probably loves me too ..the way he tries to look for hidden meanings in my posts.

[DMC]

I did not go looking. I read SI.com on the regular tough guy. And if I wanted to "level" they posted an article days before that had Kobe much higher though it was only a list of the best player not on the original 50 so I did not post.
I thought this one had more merit though because it was apples to apples.

12 like i said is fine by my me highest I could argue is maybe 9th tbh ...

And running around posting 12th or leveling in bold font doesnt mean you won.
It just means you biting thread's shit.
Like Nas once told Jay (paraphrasing) ...

How many of Cully's schticks gonna come out your fat fingers, DMC?
At least 12 more times.

[DMC]

He but a bit bi-polar. He shits on you one minute then sings your praises. Like the kid in 4th grade that has crush on his first blonde, doesnt know how or have the courage to ask her for a kiss but punches her instead. Valentines comes around and he puts that extra piece of candy in her card box.

That DMC is confused but he loves him, some Cully. Probably loves me too ..the way he tries to look for hidden meanings in my posts.
Dale understands me. He knows when the bombs start to drop I'll be in the trenches with him.

[Thread]

He but a bit bi-polar. He shits on you one minute then sings your praises. Like the kid in 4th grade that has crush on his first blonde, doesnt know how or have the courage to ask her for a kiss but punches her instead. Valentines comes around and he puts that extra piece of candy in her card box.

That DMC is confused but he loves him, some Cully. Probably loves me too ..the way he tries to look for hidden meanings in my posts.

I bought her (Julie Smith) a stuffed animal, a collie on a special Saturday afternoon at Kresges. Collies were big in the mid-'60's. So was Kresge's. She broke up with me like a week later. And I asked for the collie back. She refused. Her gf told me later on she wrote in blue ink on the bottom..."This is as phony as you are, Dale."

[DMC]

More & more each day. He's absolutely adorable.
It's fair game when it's posted on a public forum. Just like 12.

[Reck]

SI's troll game is strong. :lol

[Killakobe81]

I bought her (Julie Smith) a stuffed animal, a collie on a special Saturday afternoon at Kresges. Collies were big in the mid-'60's. So was Kresge's. She broke up with me like a week later. And I asked for the collie back. She refused. Her gf told me later on she wrote in blue ink on the bottom..."This is as phony as you are, Dale."

Damn, Thread in just that one line ...you say so much!

[Killakobe81]

It's fair game when it's posted on a public forum. Just like 12.

Of course it's fair game.But you are still biting.
Funny thing to me is when not being an ass and sometimes even when you are you can be funny and original you dont need to bite and parrot his shit ...I loved the SI line earlier but dont get this crusade you are on about 12th.
Both ESPN and SI recently rated kobe 12th it doesnt mess me up ..I did say seeing McCallum place him the same exact spot it gave some additional credence to me, for ESPN's ranking of Kobe. He is not Jim Murray but he and Lowe are two of the better national guys that cover hoops. Again I might place Kobe at 9th but it's just a quibble. dont agree with his list fully but I can see his argument. and like i said I respect his work.

[Thread]

Damn, Thread in just that one line ...you say so much!

After that I kicked her in the shin on the way home from school one day. Her father told my father and my father beat me with his belt.

Years passed, I'd see her in JH, then HS. Nothing was said. We finally had a class together my senior year. Over that summer preceding my senior year I met Girl. It was a great Summer. Girl would come and wait outside that class room each day. I could feel Julie's blue eyes bearing into my back (she sat to my left, two desks down.) I always wanted to say something to her, but, never did. I'd catch her watching me at times.

You never get over your first love.

[spurraider21]

12

[DPG21920]

Laker fan on Spurs board used to call Spur fan every name under the sun when we said Kobe was at best 10 but likely 11-15. They called us homers and liars even when presented with tangible arguments instead of just the eyeball test.

We tried to explain how the use of advanced metrics and the new age media/fan is seeing players more for what they really are vs the legend of the eyeball test. Then factoring in other things (leadership, off court, etc..) it's not surprising to see Kobe consistently ranked outside of the top 10 and consistently behind Duncan.

Even casual fan votes have shifted in favor of Tim which astounds me more than anything seeing how many fans Kobe has.

[RGMCSE]

2nd 12th :wow

[Killakobe81]

Laker fan on Spurs board used to call Spur fan every name under the sun when we said Kobe was at best 10 but likely 11-15. They called us homers and liars even when presented with tangible arguments instead of just the eyeball test.

We tried to explain how the use of advanced metrics and the new age media/fan is seeing players more for what they really are vs the legend of the eyeball test. Then factoring in other things (leadership, off court, etc..) it's not surprising to see Kobe consistently ranked outside of the top 10 and consistently behind Duncan.

Even casual fan votes have shifted in favor of Tim which astounds me more than anything seeing how many fans Kobe has.

Appreciate your value add but you are bit off base. ESPN did rely more on metrics and peak.I dont think the SI article did I think it was more career if you read the article. i think your point would have made more sense to post in the other thread but your thoughts are always welcome. Arguing Kobe at 10 when his career was not close to being done made no sense either Deeps. Now it does. When I did argue Kobe over Duncan Kobe was up and Tim is down and now the tables have turned ...and I feel very different.The interesting thing here is two different set of parameters two different sites both placed Duncan over Kobe ... harder to make that case now (Kobe over Tim).

Casual fans dont matter here. Because if we did go there ... I still think Kobe would win that argument ...ESPN poll notwithstanding.

[Killakobe81]

After that I kicked her in the shin on the way home from school one day. Her father told my father and my father beat me with his belt.

Years passed, I'd see her in JH, then HS. Nothing was said. We finally had a class together my senior year. Over that summer preceding my senior year I met Girl. It was a great Summer. Girl would come and wait outside that class room each day. I could feel Julie's blue eyes bearing into my back (she sat to my left, two desks down.) I always wanted to say something to her, but, never did. I'd catch her watching me at times.

You never get over your first love.

You pint a vivid picture. Young love is silly and foolish but at the time means so much.

[hater]

Kobe belongs in the top 10 tbh he dominated for at least a decade.

Only a hater would pit Kobe outside the top 10.

On on the other coin only a retard would put Kobe ahead of Shaq or Duncan :lol

[Killakobe81]

Kobe belongs in the top 10 tbh he dominated for at least a decade.

Only a hater would pit Kobe outside the top 10.

On on the other coin only a retard would put Kobe ahead of Shaq, Duncan or Lebron :lol

Appreciate your honesty, and contribution ...but you still just talking a few spots. I have him around 9th. 12th is only a light underrating.

A case can be made for swapping the 3 you said around depending on what you value most career, rings metric or dominance.

For example, no way I place Shaq over Tim carer-wise ...but O'neal was far more dominant than any of the guys you mentioned maybe only Lebron is close. Again it's just quibbles.

[140]

Only a hater would pit Kobe outside the top 10.

:lol

[140]

After that I kicked her in the shin on the way home from school one day. Her father told my father and my father beat me with his belt.

Years passed, I'd see her in JH, then HS. Nothing was said. We finally had a class together my senior year. Over that summer preceding my senior year I met Girl. It was a great Summer. Girl would come and wait outside that class room each day. I could feel Julie's blue eyes bearing into my back (she sat to my left, two desks down.) I always wanted to say something to her, but, never did. I'd catch her watching me at times.

You never get over your first love.

Is that something you regret, Cub?

[Killakobe81]

This exercise is akin to ranking the 25 greatest movies or top 10 Mc's all time dead or alive.
Arguing over a few spots makes little sense. But if someone doesn't have the first two Godfather's in their 25 or dont include andre 3000 in a top 10 I get mad but if you say Godfather part one is not #1 but in your top 25 no beef here. Same with this list.

[Thread]

Is that something you regret, Cub?

Yeah. I should have said something and came close a couple times, but, just could not pull the trigger. I think, or, perhaps want to believe she was waiting for me. Terrible regret.

She married out of high school to a guy named Kenny. I remembered him, but, we traveled in different circles. A few years later I heard they divorced. We moved back in the early '80's and I always fancied I'd see her in a mall, or, shopping center and we'd have our moment. But, I never saw her again. When we go back to this very circa I always take a cruise past her house. It's exactly like the house that Girl grew up in, two story. That Summer of '71 when I met Girl I also played pick up baseball at the school yard right behind Julie's house. It was weird playing there each day, watching that backyard, wondering if she were home and perhaps watching me out there in the ball field.

[Killakobe81]

Yeah. I should have said something and came close a couple times, but, just could not pull the trigger. I think, or, perhaps want to believe she was waiting for me. Terrible regret.

She married out of high school to a guy named Kenny. I remembered him, but, we traveled in different circles. A few years later I heard they divorced. We moved back in the early '80's and I always fancied I'd see her in a mall, or, shopping center and we'd have our moment. But, I never saw her again. When we go back to this very circa I always take a cruise past her house. It's exactly like the house that Girl grew up in, two story. That Summer of '71 when I met Girl I also played pick up baseball at the school yard right behind Julie's house. It was weird playing there each day, watching that backyard, wondering if she were home and perhaps watching me out there in the ball field.

great post thread, nuff said.

[Koolaid_Man]

to you, apparently.
I already conceded that, btw.
Just thought another perspective was good.


And yet you still refuse to offer legit rationale :lol

[Thread]

great post thread, nuff said.

Yeah, I just journeyed to the book shelves, pulled out the Yearbook and paged to her picture.

Damn, I feel down and melancholy now, like to cry a little. I see it all in mind's eye.

[Killakobe81]

And yet you still refuse to offer legit rationale :lol

Come on Kool how many times have I argued the point with Amb?
But short version is getting the 5th still being a key player are the reasons why. Still thinks its close but now give edge to Tim

[Koolaid_Man]

Come on Kool how many times have I argued the point with Amb?
But short version is getting the 5th still being a key player are the reasons why. Still thinks its close but now give edge to Tim

Thanks for your offering....but you do realize I'm about to go in....:lol I just wanted to see what was driving your thought....stay tuned bro :lol

[Killakobe81]

Thanks for your offering....but you do realize I'm about to go in....:lol I just wanted to see what was driving your thought....stay tuned bro :lol

I dont want it to be so ...was hoping McCallum would argue different but he did not. I think he also chose Duncan as player of the decade so i should have known ...would be happy for somone i respect besides Magic to sway back yo the Kobe side tbh

[DMC]

Of course it's fair game.But you are still biting.
Funny thing to me is when not being an ass and sometimes even when you are you can be funny and original you dont need to bite and parrot his shit ...I loved the SI line earlier but dont get this crusade you are on about 12th.
Both ESPN and SI recently rated kobe 12th it doesnt mess me up ..I did say seeing McCallum place him the same exact spot it gave some additional credence to me, for ESPN's ranking of Kobe. He is not Jim Murray but he and Lowe are two of the better national guys that cover hoops. Again I might place Kobe at 9th but it's just a quibble. dont agree with his list fully but I can see his argument. and like i said I respect his work.

"You're still biting" says the flustered prisoner to 12



http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/8/89/Muppetnumberoftheday.12.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20100813010132

[DMC]

Yeah. I should have said something and came close a couple times, but, just could not pull the trigger. I think, or, perhaps want to believe she was waiting for me. Terrible regret.

She married out of high school to a guy named Kenny. I remembered him, but, we traveled in different circles. A few years later I heard they divorced. We moved back in the early '80's and I always fancied I'd see her in a mall, or, shopping center and we'd have our moment. But, I never saw her again. When we go back to this very circa I always take a cruise past her house. It's exactly like the house that Girl grew up in, two story. That Summer of '71 when I met Girl I also played pick up baseball at the school yard right behind Julie's house. It was weird playing there each day, watching that backyard, wondering if she were home and perhaps watching me out there in the ball field.

You got cucked by Kenny.

Kenny the cucker.

[DMC]

This exercise is akin to ranking the 25 greatest movies or top 10 Mc's all time dead or alive.
Arguing over a few spots makes little sense. But if someone doesn't have the first two Godfather's in their 25 or dont include andre 3000 in a top 10 I get mad but if you say Godfather part one is not #1 but in your top 25 no beef here. Same with this list.

"Ranking is unimportant"

"I want Kobe over Shaq"

12

[DMC]

Laker fan on Spurs board used to call Spur fan every name under the sun when we said Kobe was at best 10 but likely 11-15. They called us homers and liars even when presented with tangible arguments instead of just the eyeball test.

We tried to explain how the use of advanced metrics and the new age media/fan is seeing players more for what they really are vs the legend of the eyeball test. Then factoring in other things (leadership, off court, etc..) it's not surprising to see Kobe consistently ranked outside of the top 10 and consistently behind Duncan.

Even casual fan votes have shifted in favor of Tim which astounds me more than anything seeing how many fans Kobe has.

It's just getting started. Wait until next year when no one needs to interview Kobe any more. He'll be lucky to crack 15.

[DPG21920]

Appreciate your value add but you are bit off base. ESPN did rely more on metrics and peak.I dont think the SI article did I think it was more career if you read the article. i think your point would have made more sense to post in the other thread but your thoughts are always welcome. Arguing Kobe at 10 when his career was not close to being done made no sense either Deeps. Now it does. When I did argue Kobe over Duncan Kobe was up and Tim is down and now the tables have turned ...and I feel very different.The interesting thing here is two different set of parameters two different sites both placed Duncan over Kobe ... harder to make that case now (Kobe over Tim).

Casual fans dont matter here. Because if we did go there ... I still think Kobe would win that argument ...ESPN poll notwithstanding.

I appreciate you as well, but your response highlights the mindset. Even though your stance has changed now, it should not have mattered even at the time of arguments years ago.

Laker fan at that time was still fixated on "rings" and raw stats. Many of us were trying to paint the picture that while on the surface it may have made sense to argue in favor of Kobe over Duncan due to rings/raw stats, that the mindset was outdated and shifting.

It's ok, it was not just Laker fan that was behind the times, but many media members and casual fans. Some of us just got on the wave sooner and understood that even at 5>4, it didn't matter. That one ring difference in context didn't and shouldn't shift the argument at all when presented with everything else.

If all else was equal, sure, default to that. But it was not really equal at all and the gap has actually widened as time has gone on.

[Jenks]

These rankings are ridiculous

Pippen 6 > Kobe 5

[Killakobe81]

I appreciate you as well, but your response highlights the mindset. Even though your stance has changed now, it should not have mattered even at the time of arguments years ago.

Laker fan at that time was still fixated on "rings" and raw stats. Many of us were trying to paint the picture that while on the surface it may have made sense to argue in favor of Kobe over Duncan due to rings/raw stats, that the mindset was outdated and shifting.

It's ok, it was not just Laker fan that was behind the times, but many media members and casual fans. Some of us just got on the wave sooner and understood that even at 5>4, it didn't matter. That one ring difference in context didn't and shouldn't shift the argument at all when presented with everything else.

If all else was equal, sure, default to that. But it was not really equal at all and the gap has actually widened as time has gone on.

Dont agree with all of this just most of it. You can say that 5th ring didnt matter but it did for me and since Im no hypocrite I adjusted accordingly. But truly unlike what DMC thinks this is not all about Kobe ... so I will let it die. Still a great post.
What were your thoughts on some of the other rankings? Amb and others were clamoring that Moses was criminally underrated by ESPN is this way to high? or at least in relation to Shaq and Hakeem?

[DPG21920]

Dont agree with all of this just most of it. You can say that 5th ring didnt matter but it did for me and since Im no hypocrite I adjusted accordingly. But truly unlike what DMC thinks this is not all about Kobe ... so I will let it die. Still a great post.
What were your thoughts on some of the other rankings? Amb and others were clamoring that Moses was criminally underrated by ESPN is this way to high? or at least in relation to Shaq and Hakeem?

For me personally, I don't like to comment too much on guys I never really saw play. I really watched from early 90-s on so it's too hard for me to compare against generations and of course I have biases towards what I've seen vs what I've heard.

[Chucho]

another bad list. I guess these writers don't value championships as much as they should. In the end it's who was left standing in the end. then you add domination and career in the equation

My list and the correct one:
1. MJ
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Duncan
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Lebron
10. Kobe


It's so fucking retarted to put Kobe in the top ten. He isn't. SI and ESPN said so. Tool.

[Killakobe81]

For me personally, I don't like to comment too much on guys I never really saw play. I really watched from early 90-s on so it's too hard for me to compare against generations and of course I have biases towards what I've seen vs what I've heard.

I agree. I dont include the guys I never saw either.

[ambchang]

I am all for old timers, but Pettit over Moses, Shaq and Hakeem is retarded.

And Shaq over Hakeem is as well.

[Killakobe81]

I am all for old timers, but Pettit over Moses, Shaq and Hakeem is retarded.

And Shaq over Hakeem is as well.

You ever see Pettit play amb? I have not. I thought it seemed high but can I say that definitively?

[Killakobe81]

You ever see Pettit play amb? I have not. I thought it seemed high but can I say that definitively?

Plus he gave Moses some love. Over Hakeem and shaq ...thought you would like that ...amb.

[cd021]

Not that it matters in the end, but why is Bird always still ahead of Duncan?

I find that odd too, Duncan's had the better career and along with Kareem he could become the 2nd player to finish with 27,000 pts, 15,000 rebs, 3,000 blks and 50% from the field

[HarlemHeat37]

Wow, that is a painful list to look at:lol..

KG and Dirk in the mid-30s is embarrassing..

[midnightpulp]

12 again :lmao

Rest of the list is superbad in places, though. Hakeem only one spot above Malone? Dirk 37th? Shaq 15th?

[Killakobe81]

Wow, that is a painful list to look at:lol..

KG and Dirk in the mid-30s is embarrassing..

I didnt agree with that either maybe he doesnt like jump shooting 7 footers ...pierce also was absent. I hate pierce but he has more franchise points than Bird but less rings ...and mvps lol but wheelchair doesnt even make 100? Unless i missed it.

[ambchang]

You ever see Pettit play amb? I have not. I thought it seemed high but can I say that definitively?

Common logic. If you place him that high, Russell has to be #1 all time. How do you abuse the #11 all time like that for a decade and not be ranked #1? It's like having Garnett ranked 11 and Duncan ranked 5 or something like that.