Creationism's Future After "No Child Left Behind"

[Blake]

"On December 10 of this past year, President Obama signed into law the Every Student Succeeds Act (ESSA). The ESSA replaces the increasingly unpopular No Child Left Behind Act, which drew ire for its emphasis on standardized testing as a measure of school performance. Critics objected to the loss of local authority over teaching standards, as well as the heavy-handedness of federal guidelines. The new law addresses many of these criticisms, giving states more autonomy in education policy.

The ESSA passed the House and Senate with overwhelming bipartisan majorities, creating a new paradigm for how the federal government exerts influence over American schools. And yet, who has control over educational standards has been at the center of another contentious school debate for nearly a century—that over teaching the theory of evolution. The ESSA does not directly talk about evolution, and it is quite explicit that it does not promote the teaching of religion. But it still changes the status quo. And the law could still affect the way evolution is taught across the country, because it changes how states and local districts determine what students get taught.

By handing more power to the states, and to locales where antievolution sentiment is strong, the new law may spark even more political and legal battles over science education. As it happens, the ESSA became law just a few days before the ten-year anniversary of Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, the last antievolution trial in the United States to become a mass media phenomenon. American antievolutionism is often thought of as a debate between Darwin’s account of the origin of species and a biblical interpretation of creation, but antievolution as an organized political movement has always been primarily about schools. There were religious objections to evolutionary ideas even before Darwin, but political antievolutionism really developed in the 1920s, in response to biology curricula that emphasized evolution and the expansion of compulsory education.

The Kitzmiller trial was a major landmark in the history of antievolution law. In 2004, a school board in Dover, Pennsylvania, required high school biology students to hear a short paragraph, informing them, “Darwin’s Theory is a theory,” and “is still being tested as new evidence is discovered.” Students were also to learn about intelligent design—the idea that a supernatural force deliberately designed the universe. Parents of several students sued, claiming that the school board was promoting religion by teaching intelligent design (ID). Unlike forms of creationism that hew to biblical accounts, ID advocates do not claim that the designer is the biblical God, or that creation unfolded in a manner consistent with the book of Genesis. For these reasons, intelligent design advocates claim that their theory is scientific, not religious. In his ruling in the Kitzmiller case in 2005, though, Judge John E. Jones III said that “ID is not science.” The judge further ruled that the Dover school board had violated the separation of church and state.....

- See more at: http://religionandpolitics.org/2016/02/16/creationisms-future-after-no-child-left-behind/#sthash.MzW9xfR9.dpuf

[Blake]

ID...just. ..won't. ....die...

[SpursforSix]

I really don't care if they teach creationism or not. I don't know how much of it sticks with someone with reasonable intelligence and an open mind. People eventually make their own decisions.

As long as the improve the system, I'm fine with it.

[clambake]

you think they have ads in other countries that for $19 a month you can feed a kid from kentucky?

[Blake]

I don't care if they teach it in philosophy or some such. Keep it out of science class tho. Non negotiable.

[SpursforSix]

you think they have ads in other countries that for $19 a month you can feed a kid from kentucky?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw and ad like that when I went to Jamaica. But they didn't specify Kentucky. It was Appalachia.

[baseline bum]

you think they have ads in other countries that for $19 a month you can feed a kid from kentucky?

That's like two trips to Church's. No way you're feeding one of those fat bastards on $19 tbh.

[SpursforSix]

That's like two trips to Church's. No way you're feeding one of those fat bastards on $19 tbh.

I don't think there are many if any Church's Fried Chicken stores in Kentucky.

[Blake]

I don't think there are many if any Church's Fried Chicken stores in Kentucky.

Appalachia Fried Chicken. Toe licking good

[DarrinS]

Hardcore atheists just as annoying as hardcore bible-thumpers, tbh.

[rmt]

Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw and ad like that when I went to Jamaica. But they didn't specify Kentucky. It was Appalachia.

I doubt that there's an ad like that in Jamaica - the people are very poor.

In Jamaica, our minimum wage is US$1.21 per hour, US$9.68 for an eight-hour day, and US$48.40 for a 40-hour workweek!

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20150128/cleisure/cleisure2.html

[rmt]

Get rid of the Department of Education - return to the local level. Stop with the bureaucracy and insane amount of testing. Get back to the basics - hammer in the 3 Rs - stop with the Black History Month, Hispanic Month, Author's Gallery and science projects in elementary schools. See the "How to fix our public schools thread."

[SpursforSix]

I doubt that there's an ad like that in Jamaica - the people are very poor.

In Jamaica, our minimum wage is US$1.21 per hour, US$9.68 for an eight-hour day, and US$48.40 for a 40-hour workweek!

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20150128/cleisure/cleisure2.html

That doesn't sound right. Most of the people we saw were well dressed and were able to afford scuba gear and were always buying drinks.

[rmt]

That doesn't sound right. Most of the people we saw were well dressed and were able to afford scuba gear and were always buying drinks.

Probably tourists. Locals are poor.

[SpursforSix]

Probably tourists. Locals are poor.

I don't know...I can't see how they could be to afford to live there.

[Blake]

Hardcore atheists just as annoying as hardcore bible-thumpers, tbh.

False equivalence floating your boat

[Blake]

I doubt that there's an ad like that in Jamaica - the people are very poor.

In Jamaica, our minimum wage is US$1.21 per hour, US$9.68 for an eight-hour day, and US$48.40 for a 40-hour workweek!

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20150128/cleisure/cleisure2.html

What's the minimum wage for hillbillies tho

[rmt]

1 Jamaican $ = .0082 US $ - terrible conversion. Locals eat local food - fruits off the tree, root vegetables (yams, cocoa), chickens in the back yard, rice and peas.

[SpursforSix]

1 Jamaican $ = .0082 US $ - terrible conversion. Locals eat local food - fruits off the tree, root vegetables (yams, cocoa), chickens in the back yard, rice and peas.

Doesn't sound like they're poor at all.

[rmt]

Doesn't sound like they're poor at all.

Why? Because they have food? There is no social net there - no unemployment benefits, no welfare, no food stamps - nothing. They rely on family or friends or go hungry.

[DarrinS]

False equivalence floating your boat

You preach more than anyone.

[SpursforSix]

Why? Because they have food? There is no social net there - no unemployment benefits, no welfare, no food stamps - nothing. They rely on family or friends or go hungry.

I think you're probably trolling me but I'll play along. As I said the first time, most of the people Insaw were going to scuba or ride horses on the beach or tons of other stuff. The place we stayed wasn't cheap so I can't begin to imagine what it would cost to actually have a home there. The taxes alone would be a killer. If I had fruit trees, I wouldn't go to the store to buy food either.

[rmt]

I think you're probably trolling me but I'll play along. As I said the first time, most of the people Insaw were going to scuba or ride horses on the beach or tons of other stuff. The place we stayed wasn't cheap so I can't begin to imagine what it would cost to actually have a home there. The taxes alone would be a killer. If I had fruit trees, I wouldn't go to the store to buy food either.

I don't troll, and I was born in Jamaica. Taxes are reasonable in Jamaica. There's no social security/medicare type tax - mostly 25% income tax. Like most third world countries, if you have money, you can live very well because the cost of living is relatively cheap. Maybe you stayed at one of those all-inclusive places like Sandals? Did you pay one fee for all you can eat, drink (including alcohol), free scuba, horseback riding, etc? Then those are tourists. The locals are all working - either in hotels or business.

[SpursforSix]

I don't troll, and I was born in Jamaica. Taxes are reasonable in Jamaica. There's no social security/medicare type tax - mostly 25% income tax. Like most third world countries, if you have money, you can live very well because the cost of living is relatively cheap. Maybe you stayed at one of those all-inclusive places like Sandals? Did you pay one fee for all you can eat, drink (including alcohol), free scuba, horseback riding, etc? Then those are tourists. The locals are all working - either in hotels or business.

Yeah...that sounds right. It wasn't Sandals but we just paid one price and everything was included. Except any excursions. It was pretty awesome. We were kind of in the middle at Runaway Bay. We only left the resort a couple times. Dunn River Falls, Martha Brae raft ride. Mostly hung out at the beach or around the pool.

[Blake]

You preach more than anyone.

I preach that creationists and bible beaters should keep their shit to themselves. I don't preach that kids should learn atheism in school.

False equivalence

[Blake]

I don't troll, and I was born in Jamaica. Taxes are reasonable in Jamaica. There's no social security/medicare type tax - mostly 25% income tax. Like most third world countries, if you have money, you can live very well because the cost of living is relatively cheap. Maybe you stayed at one of those all-inclusive places like Sandals? Did you pay one fee for all you can eat, drink (including alcohol), free scuba, horseback riding, etc? Then those are tourists. The locals are all working - either in hotels or business.

Well who owns the horses? The tourists?

I'm Texan and I don't even own a horse. And a fruit tree and or cocoa plant in the backyard sounds pretty exotic.

[rmt]

Well who owns the horses? The tourists?

I'm Texan and I don't even own a horse. And a fruit tree and or cocoa plant in the backyard sounds pretty exotic.

There are all-inclusive resorts where you pay one fee and everything is free - all the food, alcohol, entertainment (golf, scuba, horseback riding, kayaking, windsurfing, snorkeling, waterskiing, dancing), beach, pool, room. Everything in the resort is free for the days you stay. Some people just drink and drink and drink (alcohol).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't troll, and I was born in Jamaica. Taxes are reasonable in Jamaica. There's no social security/medicare type tax - mostly 25% income tax. Like most third world countries, if you have money, you can live very well because the cost of living is relatively cheap. Maybe you stayed at one of those all-inclusive places like Sandals? Did you pay one fee for all you can eat, drink (including alcohol), free scuba, horseback riding, etc? Then those are tourists. The locals are all working - either in hotels or business.

:lol At least its not Haiti. . . .

[RandomGuy]

Get rid of the Department of Education - return to the local level. Stop with the bureaucracy and insane amount of testing. Get back to the basics - hammer in the 3 Rs - stop with the Black History Month, Hispanic Month, Author's Gallery and science projects in elementary schools. See the "How to fix our public schools thread."

Mostly agree.

[RandomGuy]

I don't troll, and I was born in Jamaica. Taxes are reasonable in Jamaica. There's no social security/medicare type tax - mostly 25% income tax. Like most third world countries, if you have money, you can live very well because the cost of living is relatively cheap. Maybe you stayed at one of those all-inclusive places like Sandals? Did you pay one fee for all you can eat, drink (including alcohol), free scuba, horseback riding, etc? Then those are tourists. The locals are all working - either in hotels or business.

What works for an island nation of 3M with a rather simple economy does not work well for a continent spanning post-industrial country of 300+M.

[Blake]

I disagree with education curriculum placed at the local level. Too many retarded states and school districts out there.

[spurraider21]

I disagree with education curriculum placed at the local level. Too many retarded states and school districts out there.
so what do you suggest

[Blake]

so what do you suggest

It'll never happen, but I want education funded and curriculum approved at a federal level.

[boutons_deux]

There's no wrong with Common Core. It's very general, rather than detailed, leaving lots of local flexibility for how to achieve it CC standards.

The fact that school systems need a couple years to upgrade to it means it is raising standards

The Repugs and rightwingnuts have slandered and lied about CC enough, so the red, slave states feel obligated to ignore it as Federally imposed overreach, which is total bullshit.

[rmt]

What works for an island nation of 3M with a rather simple economy does not work well for a continent spanning post-industrial country of 300+M.

My response was not meant to be a comparison to the US. I was simply responding to his statement about cost of living and taxes in Jamaica.

[spurraider21]

There's no wrong with Common Core.
:lmao

[Spurminator]

The Repugs and rightwingnuts have slandered and lied about CC enough, so the red, slave states feel obligated to ignore it as Federally imposed overreach, which is total bullshit.

Opposition to Common Core has been pretty bipartisan in my circles.

[RandomGuy]

My response was not meant to be a comparison to the US. I was simply responding to his statement about cost of living and taxes in Jamaica.

(nods) Gotcha. Sorry about my knee-jerk reaction. one-size-fits-all solutions are a dime a dozen here, and I have developed a rather rote response to such things. :)

[boutons_deux]

Opposition to Common Core has been pretty bipartisan in my circles.

from what I read is that progressives, the educated people, worry not about CC because it sets standards, but because implementation could hurt their kids currently caught between pre-CC and post-CC. That concern is real because it sure seems like the implementation in many places is/was botched, too fast, too brutal.

While rightwingnuts' knees jerk, the low-wage, low-info, low-education people, at anything that raises standards because they and their kids are dumbfucks, ideological robots resisting anything from govt at any level.

I still see nothing wrong with CC setting standards that are very reasonable, leaving complete local flexibility for how to achieve the standards. Whether the implementation is equally reasonable is totally different issue.

slave state SC has very high standards: “In South Carolina, you’ve got to know how to add one-digit numbers,”

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150315/PC16/150319617/1177/south-carolina-moves-on-from-common-core-but-similarities-remain-in-new-standards

CC set standards for kids to achieve, but apparently does nothing or not much to raise the education, qualification, reduce churn of teachers, which is the "core" problem of education.

[RandomGuy]

Opposition to Common Core has been pretty bipartisan in my circles.

Which is funny because common core was a bipartisan creation.

I am for whatever the f*** works for education. My gut says we aren't paying teachers enough to attract and keep talented people long enough, and we have too much administrative bullshit getting in the way of the talented teachers we do have.

My opinion, though, might be somewhat stilted by the fact that I am pretty much describing my wife's experience, but it seems to jibe with a lot of stuff she collectively sees on teacher message boards.

[boutons_deux]

"we aren't paying teachers enough"

and we don't have high enough qualifications, education, esp subject-specific.

Teachers are one critical segment where all college and post-grad, on-going training should be free, with a committment to spend x years teaching in the state supplied the grants.