Rich Kids Stay Rich, Poor Kids Stay Poor

[RandomGuy]

On the myth of American income mobility:


On Friday, a team of researchers led by Stanford economist Raj Chetty released a paper on how growing up in poverty affects boys and girls differently. Their core finding: Boys who grow up in poor families fare substantially worse in adulthood, in terms of employment and earnings, than girls who grow up in the same circumstances. (The Washington Post has a good write-up of the paper and its implications.)

But beyond its immediate conclusions, the paper, like much of Chetty’s recent work as part of his Equality of Opportunity Project, points to a deeper truth: In the U.S., where you come from — where you grow up, how much your parents earn, whether your parents were married — plays a major role in determining where you will end up later in life.

Take, for example, the chart below, a version of which was Figure 1 in the recent paper. It shows how likely someone is to have a job at age 30 (the y-axis) based on how much money his or her parents made when he or she was in high school (the x-axis). In this paper, Chetty focused on the difference between men and women, which is striking; men from middle-class and affluent families are more likely to work than women, but among the poor, the opposite is true.1

But perhaps even more striking is the strength of the relationship between parental and adult income for both sexes. Children from poor families are much less likely to work in adulthood than children from middle-class families. Only about 60 percent of children from the poorest families are working at age 30, compared with 80 percent of children from median-income families.2 And the relationship extends beyond the very poor; the higher a person’s parents were on the earnings ladder, the more likely he or she is to work as an adult — at least until the very top, when employment rates dip again.

...

One factor that does clearly drive higher adult earnings is education. And not surprisingly, Chetty also finds a strong relationship between parents’ earnings and children’s chances of attending college.3 Americans who grow up poorer are less likely to go to college, an effect that is especially strong for men. (Women from all income groups are more likely than men to attend college, but the gap is wider among poorer families.)

In previous work, Chetty has found that “intergenerational mobility” — the likelihood that a child will move up into a higher income class than that of his or her parents — varies greatly from city to city and even neighborhood to neighborhood. Poor children from San Jose, California, for example, have a reasonably good chance of reaching the middle class or even becoming affluent; low-income children from Charlotte, North Carolina, are much less likely to climb in that way .

More at:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/rich-kids-stay-rich-poor-kids-stay-poor/

[boutons_deux]

social/economic mobility is greater in Western Euro countries than in USA.

[DarrinS]

I was a poor kid and now I do very well. Either I'm an anomaly or it's just muh white privilege.

[Wild Cobra]

I was a poor kid and now I do very well. Either I'm an anomaly or it's just muh white privilege.

Like me, you were just a rebel from the culture you grew up in.

[tlongII]

You needed to read a research article to tell you this?

[Spurminator]

I was a poor kid and now I do very well. Either I'm an anomaly or it's just muh white privilege.


Like me, you were just a rebel from the culture you grew up in.

You're anomalies. This is why data is better than anecdotes.

[rmt]

I was a poor kid and now I do very well. Either I'm an anomaly or it's just muh white privilege.

You worked hard and/or smart and persevered. Nothing to do with race.

[boutons_deux]

anecdotes are 100% useless, but thanks anyway.

Horatio Alger stories are an American myth, fairy tales. Everybody in USA is not created equal, is not treated equal, and is not given equal opportunity.

[Wild Cobra]

social/economic mobility is greater in Western Euro countries than in USA.
Only because they don't have a large ghetto class.

[boutons_deux]

Only because they don't have a large ghetto class.

why does USA have "a large ghetto class"?

there are plenty of under-class whites in Europe who have more upward mobility than American under-class whites

and there are more white people on public assistance than blacks + browns

[CosmicCowboy]

some truth to that. my son makes more money than I do. Of course he lives in expensive as shit LA.

[rmt]

some truth to that. my son makes more money than I do. Of course he lives in expensive as shit LA.

But you have more assets (and business) - rather have the assets than the income.

[Wild Cobra]

why does USA have "a large ghetto class"?

there are plenty of under-class whites in Europe who have more upward mobility than American under-class whites

and there are more white people on public assistance than blacks + browns

Europeans have plenty of poor people, but they don't have a ghetto culture that is like our ghetto culture.

Culture is everything. Poor immigrants to America usually have among the best advances for their children. It's because of their cultural values, and how they instill success among their children. How many poor in America, especially the inner city poor, have parents who motivate them in positive ways to succeed?

[boutons_deux]

It's because of their cultural values, and how they instill success among their children. How many poor in America, especially the inner city poor, have parents who motivate them in positive ways to succeed?

why do you think so many blacks have a poor culture? would racism, persection over 100s of years have had any effect? or maybe it's just inferior genetics, right?

and Ms of poor Americans white Americans live in white rural ghettos.

As recent, astonishing demographic study showed, they are the only group of all industrial countries with declining longevity (drugs, alcohol, suicide). What about their "white culture"?

[Wild Cobra]

why do you think so many blacks have a poor culture?

Are you saying only blacks live in ghetto environments?

Wow...

I didn't know that.

thank-you for teaching be something i didn't know...



would racism, persection over 100s of years have had any effect? or maybe it's just inferior genetics, right?

It shouldn't. Bigotry was also rampant in the 1800's for my Irish and Scottish ancestors. However, they were proud people who didn't blame their lot in society by those who persecuted them. Instead, they stepped up and taught their kids good values.



and Ms of poor Americans white Americans live in white rural ghettos.

Wait...

Didn't you just say that my claiming ghetto culture was only blacks?

Please stop. You are confusing me with your John Kerry type flipflopping.



As recent, astonishing demographic study showed, they are the only group of all industrial countries with declining longevity (drugs, alcohol, suicide). What about their "white culture"?

I don't know. I don't see this as a race issue at all. Why do you? Are you a race baiter? Why can't you be colorblind? Why do you insist on being part of the racial problem, rather than solution?

[mingus]

Europeans have plenty of poor people, but they don't have a ghetto culture that is like our ghetto culture.

Culture is everything. Poor immigrants to America usually have among the best advances for their children. It's because of their cultural values, and how they instill success among their children. How many poor in America, especially the inner city poor, have parents who motivate them in positive ways to succeed?

Cultural values are formed, established and ingrained over the course of centuries. Passed along from one generation to the next. We have one race that wasn't allowed to take part in that for three centuries, and key cultural values conducive to higher achievement (i.e. literacy, family) were forbidden and never acquired or passed down generationally, from family to family. Families broken up, not being allowed to read for fear of rebellion, etc. That shit is still felt today. The tail end of it ended barely 60 years ago. Hell, many of 'em ("inner city youth") still have got family who went through that shit. It's not like the playing field was "leveled" that long ago even tho maybe some of us would like to think it was. Then to make matters worse, nowadays we've got politicians on both sides selling out to corporations, who sell out to foreigners, who take our manufacturing jobs via outsourcing. Good jobs for the inner-city are a scarcity now. Manufacturing was/is a job a poor, uneducated person could work and make a wage that you could support yourself & family on. Take them away/outsource them? Stupid. And in addition, give many of the ones that are left here to illegals? They've been SET UP to fail. Back then, and now. Still, Hillary and the Democratic Party will pay 'em lip service, and they'll continue to eat that shit up like Popeye's Chicken.

[boutons_deux]

"Bigotry was also rampant in the 1800's for my Irish and Scottish ancestors."

but they weren't black.

[Wild Cobra]

"Bigotry was also rampant in the 1800's for my Irish and Scottish ancestors."

but they weren't black.




Culture matters. Not color. Why are you too stupid to comprehend that?

[Wild Cobra]

Cultural values are formed, established and ingrained over the course of centuries. Passed along from one generation to the next. We have one race that wasn't allowed to take part in that for three centuries, and key cultural values conducive to higher achievement (i.e. literacy, family) were forbidden and never acquired or passed down generationally, from family to family.

Should the past be held on to for anyone wanting to move into the future?



Families broken up, not being allowed to read for fear of rebellion, etc. That shit is still felt today.

Families breaking up happen in all cultural settings. It used to be almost nonexistent in the 50's, but pretty much the norm after the 70's.



The tail end of it ended barely 60 years ago. Hell, many of 'em ("inner city youth") still have got family who went through that shit.

So who's fault is that? Is it the white man's fault that hatred is passed down by memory rather than genetics?



It's not like the playing field was "leveled" that long ago even tho maybe some of us would like to think it was.

The playing field has been level for decades now. The only reason why others cannot rise higher is their own bigotry.



Then to make matters worse, nowadays we've got politicians on both sides selling out to corporations, who sell out to foreigners, who take our manufacturing jobs via outsourcing.

Yep.

Thank-You president Clinton for signing all those free trade deals,.



Good jobs for the inner-city are a scarcity now.

There were never good jobs for the inner city slums. Not since the civil rights legislation. One sad truth is when were a separate people, the blacks had their own businesses, that dried yo when the civil rights act passed. this was an unexpected consequence.



Manufacturing was/is a job a poor, uneducated person could work and make a wage that you could support yourself & family on.

Not true. Most manufacturing jobs employing large numbers were union jobs that paid living wages. That's why, when the global free trade passed, they quickly dried up.



Take them away/outsource them? Stupid.

Stupid? No. businesses will do what is best for their share holders within the law. What was stupid, what president Clinton signing the legislation that allowed it.



And in addition, give many of the ones that are left here to illegals?

I'm an advocate of making it next to impossible for illegals to work legally. I suggest we financially destroy any business knowingly employing illegal aliens. I suggest we make mandatory some verification process.



They've been SET UP to fail. Back then, and now. Still, Hillary and the Democratic Party will pay 'em lip service, and they'll continue to eat that shit up like Popeye's Chicken.

I don't know what to say about the ignorant populace that believes charlatans.

[Wild Cobra]

"Bigotry was also rampant in the 1800's for my Irish and Scottish ancestors."

but they weren't black.




They were every bit scorn for their dialect as blacks were for their color.

Please stop being so naive.

[boutons_deux]

They were every bit scorn for their dialect as blacks were for their color.

Please stop being so naive.

but they weren't black.

[Wild Cobra]

but they weren't black.



My God you fool.

This isn't about race!

Just how God damn stupid are you?

[Sportcamper]

I don’t agree that poor kids stay poor…1st generation So Cal Asians excel in school & lead successful lives…Nigerians are maybe 5% of the black population & yet the majority of black Ivy League graduates…Hard work pays off...

[RandomGuy]

I don’t agree that poor kids stay poor…1st generation So Cal Asians excel in school & lead successful lives…Nigerians are maybe 5% of the black population & yet the majority of black Ivy League graduates…Hard work pays off...

It isn't about what exceptions you can name or cite. It is about the overall data.

If I tell you "horses are generally brown, because we have looked at a random sample of 20,000 horses and cateloged them by hair color" and you say "but I saw a picture of a white horse", that doesn't make the statement "horses are generally brown" incorrect, or even open to individual opinion.

The plural of anecdote is not "data"

[boutons_deux]

My God you fool.

This isn't about race!

Just how God damn stupid are you?

but they weren't black.

[RandomGuy]

You're anomalies. This is why data is better than anecdotes.

Also a bit of a biased sample. (WC + Darrin)

Very poor people generally don't have as much internet access. The ones that are poor and stayed poor because of whatever reason, probably aren't here to give themselves as an example, even if they were inclined to so do.

[mingus]

Should the past be held on to for anyone wanting to move into the future?


Families breaking up happen in all cultural settings. It used to be almost nonexistent in the 50's, but pretty much the norm after the 70's.


So who's fault is that? Is it the white man's fault that hatred is passed down by memory rather than genetics?


The playing field has been level for decades now. The only reason why others cannot rise higher is their own bigotry.


Yep.

Thank-You president Clinton for signing all those free trade deals,.


There were never good jobs for the inner city slums. Not since the civil rights legislation. One sad truth is when were a separate people, the blacks had their own businesses, that dried yo when the civil rights act passed. this was an unexpected consequence.


Not true. Most manufacturing jobs employing large numbers were union jobs that paid living wages. That's why, when the global free trade passed, they quickly dried up.


Stupid? No. businesses will do what is best for their share holders within the law. What was stupid, what president Clinton signing the legislation that allowed it.


I'm an advocate of making it next to impossible for illegals to work legally. I suggest we financially destroy any business knowingly employing illegal aliens. I suggest we make mandatory some verification process.


I don't know what to say about the ignorant populace that believes charlatans.

I won't respond to everything because, well, there's a lot of agreement here, and it'd be redundant.

But I'll respond to a couple of things.

In my first point, I was just stating the fact that culture is important, and Black-American culture has been held back in the past. The patriarchal/man-is-the-breadwinner family system, a part of White culture and virtually every other immigrant culture, never had much of a chance to form with them since families were torn apart (i.e. dads sold off as slaves) & basic educational & economical rights were kept from them (literacy, university, professions) until relatively recently. This culture takes time to develop. How can we, as Whites who have no possible way of being able to relate to that, say how long is too long? All we can do is hope to expedite it. We've done enough harm already. We're not expediting it by letting illegals in who, in addition to taking manufacturing jobs that otherwise many low-middle class Blacks (& Whites) would take, they're a political distraction to their particular causes. You mentioned NAFTA, and I alluded to it--that too. You have to be able to take care of your own before you can take care of others. We're doing a shitty ass job of that. We're generous to a fucking fault, and a lot of these stupid ass politicians have to the balls to say--after we've basically enabled illegal immigration to happen because we're too nice--that we're (referring to conservatives, at least on this particular issue) heartless, have no compassion, hate immigrants etc. I'm so sick of that bullshit. There's a Golden Mean to everything, and 11 million illegals later, I'd say we've gone far passed it.

The other point you made is about whether Blacks should "hold on to" the past or something like that. That's connected to ^^^. I'd respond that, contrary and in addition to that, the past holds on to many of them. The destruction slavery had on the development of Black Culture, particularly in so far as family concerned, is virtually unprecedented. That in no way suggests that I agree a Black who comes from a good family who was able to break the cycle, should use/hold on to slavery as an excuse for his/her failings. Nor to I believe Blacks who didn't grown up with those things use it as an excuse. It won't help them break out of the cycle to do so. But recognition is important, recognition of the problem =/= blame said problem.