Houston Mayor Criticizes State Response

[Nbadan]

Mayor Bill White criticized the state for not having fuel in place for evacuees.

"It was just totally unacceptable that there was not adequate fuel supplies stashed around the state," White said. "That's a part of the state plan that's going to need improvement."

His comments came after stations ran out of gas when Hurricane Rita evacuees rushed to fill their tanks. Many waited in long lines for fuel. Some motorists on the highways to Dallas, Austin and other cities ran out of gas or ran low while waiting in slow-moving traffic. Gas stations along the routes also ran out.

Kathy Walt, the governor's spokeswoman, said there are fuel storage issues that are unrelated to the hurricane response plan, such as only one tank farm in Austin.

Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/rita/3368468)

Too many evacuees who did nothing wrong, but did what they were supposed to do, and followed the routes that they were supposed to follow, wound up as needless victims by a lack of proper planning at the State level. Mayor White is right, the State should have had refueling stations along the route for driver short on fuel, especially when Wednesday and Thursday turned into such circuses in town, and gas stations along popular routes started running out of gas.

The worst part is, that many Houston evacuees simply turned back because they weren't getting anywhere. Now imagine if Rita had stayed at a 5 or strong 4.

[CharlieMac]

Now imagine if Rita had stayed at a 5 or strong 4.
......Democratic loud-mouthes would be all over the Sunday Moning talk shows blaming it on Bush. Instead they're on there falling back on Katrina. It's so obvious most of those guys are hoping for disaster.

Both sides of the major interstate highways should have been opened a few hous sooner, that would have been a common sense move, but I imagine coordination between TxDot, county, city, and state law enforcement officials is tough considering there were a couple of thousand on/off ramps thaat had to be blocked off over a couple of hundred miles.

A couple of million people get on the highway, chances are there are going to be gas shortages. I had a couple of people in the restaurant from Houston yesterday saying that the people who knew they were low on gas and just stayed on a fucking lane in the freeway instead of pulling aside. Stuidity like that hampers the response time assisting people out of gas and other types of emergency services.

But, this was another learning experience. Let's just be thankful the evacuation went well for the most part and that the city of Houston was spared a Cat. 5 ass-pounding.

[xrayzebra]

Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/rita/3368468)

Too many evacuees who did nothing wrong, but did what they were supposed to do, and followed the routes that they were supposed to follow, wound up as needless victims by a lack of proper planning at the State level. Mayor White is right, the State should have had refueling stations along the route for driver short on fuel, especially when Wednesday and Thursday turned into such circuses in town, and gas stations along popular routes started running out of gas.

The worst part is, that many Houston evacuees simply turned back because they weren't getting anywhere. Now imagine if Rita had stayed at a 5 or strong 4.

More BS by Dan. Everyone got out didn't they? Some were inconvienced, but none died. So stuff it my little socialist friend, just put your little tin hat on and endure the next three years. And then suffer for four more when we take the whole ball game again.

[Vashner]

Too many people in Houston ..

That Mayor is an ass... he thinks it was the first traffic jam in Houston?

It's the 4th largest city in America give me a break...

If you want to be able to get the fuck out of somewhere Houston is NOT where you live... Houston is where you live BECAUSE YOU found a good job there..

OTHER THAN THAT there is no reason to live in that hellhole...

[Hook Dem]

hahaha
just because there are more stupid people than smart people doesn't make them any less stupid
And just which category would you fall in Pimp?

[Hook Dem]

Dan thinks he owns this forum so he posts rather than live a full life. He is actually comedy central!!!!! :lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hmm, the best I can tell, zero people lost their lives from Houston, or from the evacuation out of Houston.

That's the only stat that matters.

Look, unless you build a 46 lane highway between Houston and Dallas, it's going to take people a long time to get the hell out of there.

For the mayor of a city that has a 12 hour a day constant rush hour in his town, I'm not sure where he thinks he has room to talk about the evacs.

As for the fuel problem, NO ONE foresaw that happening until it did, and they did get tankers down there to fill people up on the road.

This argument would hold more credence if the mayor had been asking for fuel on the highway before the evac, but he didn't. Typical case of a democratic politician trying to find something to criticize the state government response run by Gov. Perry (R) that nationally is getting praise for getting everyone out.

[Nbadan]

A couple of million people get on the highway, chances are there are going to be gas shortages. I had a couple of people in the restaurant from Houston yesterday saying that the people who knew they were low on gas and just stayed on a fucking lane in the freeway instead of pulling aside. Stuidity like that hampers the response time assisting people out of gas and other types of emergency services.

But, this was another learning experience. Let's just be thankful the evacuation went well for the most part and that the city of Houston was spared a Cat. 5 ass-pounding.

At that point, most people didn't realize that the Hurricane had headed further north. Many evacuees were still under the impression that Rita was headed their way. So, you think that these people should have just pulled over to a dead road-stop, because there was no gas in the region, so they won't inconvienience everyone else? That's aburd.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

One of the things they talked about here on the Dallas news was that families who had multiple cars were loading up every vehicle and hitting the road.

So if mom, dad, and two teenagers each had cars, they were loading 4 cars full of belongings and putting four cars on the road instead of one. That didn't help matters either.

[whottt]

I think the mayor had legitimate cause to be critical...he's just being protective of his citizens...it's not like he's passing the buck...and obviously...he's a Mayor that knows what the States responsibilities are...unlike some. And the state also knows it dropped the ball and what it's responsibilities are...unlike some. Overall though this whole ordeal has greatly improved my opinion of Rick Perry...I hated this guy and considered him to be nothing but a typical useless politician...but he's shown he's on the ball for the past month, so he and the State can get cut some slack for not anticipating the fuel and traffic needs...a minor bitch...but hardly incompetence at the level we witnessed in NO and LA. And the Mayor of Houston has done an awesome job IMO...best example of Democrat leadership I have seen since Clinton went out of office.

[Nbadan]

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/rita_jas_2005266.jpg

If Rita had followed the warmer waters into the Houston Ship Channel the effects could have been devastating.

[Useruser666]

If? :lol :lol :lol

[spurster]

The traffic mess was a major pain in the butt, but those who wanted to get out eventually did in time. Let's hope we learn from it.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I think the mayor had legitimate cause to be critical...he's just being protective of his citizens...it's not like he's passing the buck...and obviously...he's a Mayor that knows what the States responsibilities are...unlike some. And the state also knows it dropped the ball and what it's responsibilities are...unlike some. Overall though this whole ordeal has greatly improved my opinion of Rick Perry...I hated this guy and considered him to be nothing but a typical useless politician...but he's shown he's on the ball for the past month, so he and the State can get cut some slack for not anticipating the fuel and traffic needs...a minor bitch...but hardly incompetence at the level we witnessed in NO and LA. And the Mayor of Houston has done an awesome job IMO...best example of Democrat leadership I have seen since Clinton went out of office.

I agree. Perry has a lot to answer for, but not for his work with disaster planning.

And Dan...the state was sending out trucks to fill up stranded motorists [I would have to assume on major highways since they were doing it on shitty little highways like State 21 (San Marcos to College Station) and some smaller roads outside of Bryan (we got lost coming out of Kyle)]

How exactly do you prepare for that many people leaving. And yes, Houston is a shit-hole.

[Nbadan]

And Dan...the state was sending out trucks to fill up stranded motorists [I would have to assume on major highways since they were doing it on shitty little highways like State 21 (San Marcos to College Station) and some smaller roads outside of Bryan (we got lost coming out of Kyle)]

Boy, I'd like to put Snoopes on this one because this seems more like urban legend than reality. From all the reports I have seen, it was private citizens bringing stranded motorists gas. No reports of these mysterious trucks helping motorists have surfaced.

[MannyIsGod]

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/rita_jas_2005266.jpg

If Rita had followed the warmer waters into the Houston Ship Channel the effects could have been devastating.
Stick to what you know best. I'm not sure what that is yet, but it isn't meteorology.

Rita didn't weaken because of water temps. She was moving too fast for that. She weaked because of increased shear and a weakend southern outflow channel.

[MannyIsGod]

Boy, I'd like to put Snoopes on this one because this seems more like urban legend than reality. From all the reports I have seen, it was private citizens bringing stranded motorists gas. No reports of these mysterious trucks helping motorists have surfaced.
WTF? You're an idiot. I saw them on several different stations. They were GIVING people half a freaking tank fo gas.

Stop being such a fucking idiot.

[Nbadan]

More BS by Dan. Everyone got out didn't they? Some were inconvienced, but none died. So stuff it my little socialist friend, just put your little tin hat on and endure the next three years. And then suffer for four more when we take the whole ball game again.

Many people simply got lucky and so did Texas. If Katrina had hit just a little further West with all those stranded motorists on the side of the road and stuck in small Texas towns, the deaths could have been, and probably would have been catastrophic.

I remember once we were saying what 'If' a CAT4 or CAT5 hurricane hit New Orleans, and now look where we are at. The people of Texas deserve a better evacuation plan than the one they have now.

[Nbadan]

Stick to what you know best. I'm not sure what that is yet, but it isn't meteorology.

Rita didn't weaken because of water temps. She was moving too fast for that. She weaked because of increased shear and a weakend southern outflow channel.

Obviously meterology isn't your specialty either. You talk a good meterology game Manny, but from what I read in the Katrina thread in The Club you first thought Rita wouldn't develop into a CAT5 because of this mysterious wind sheer, and magically within 48 hours Rita was a CAT5. Then you and Travis held a two page conversation about how Rita would most likely turn South from Corpus Christi, while I kept saying in the P.F. that Rita would turn North to Houston-Galveston.

So who turned out to be right Manny? Certainly not you.

[Nbadan]

WTF? You're an idiot. I saw them on several different stations. They were GIVING people half a freaking tank fo gas.

Stop being such a fucking idiot.

Yes, I saw that being reported. Kinda like those stories of babies being raped in the Superdome.

[MannyIsGod]

Dan, I SAW the fucking trucks on different stations. I saw people PUMPING from the trucks into cars.

You're such a moron

[Nbadan]

Dan, I SAW the fucking trucks on different stations. I saw people PUMPING from the trucks into cars.

You're such a moron

Then tell us what kind of trucks were used Manny? Where they the big gas trucks you see delivering fuel to stations aroud town? Or were they trucks converted from some other use? What kind of nozzle was used?

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously meterology isn't your specialty either. You talk a good meterology game Manny, but from what I read in the Katrina thread in The Club you first thought Rita wouldn't develop into a CAT5 because of this mysterious wind sheer, and magically within 48 hours Rita was a CAT5. Then you and Travis held a two page conversation about how Rita would most likely turn South from Corpus Christi, while I kept saying in the P.F. that Rita would turn North to Houston-Galveston.

So who turned out to be right Manny? Certainly not you.
Just to give you a frame of reference



Once Rita emerges into the Gulf of Mexico, continued strengthening is expected, and she will likely attain at least Category 3 status by Wednesday. However, water temperatures over the middle of the Gulf of Mexico are 1 - 2C cooler than those near Key West, thanks to all the cold water stirred up by Katrina. This cooler water should not allow Rita to grow as strong as Katrina (not a very bold statement, considering Katrina was the 4th strongest hurricane on record!) Rita will probably grow to a Category 3, and has a chance at Category 4 status if she passes over the Gulf Stream loop current, an eddy of very warm water south of New Orleans near 26N latitude.




Intensity forecasts as always -- very difficult. The rapid intensification phase seems to have begun today, but may only
last a few more hours as the diurnal MAX in convection ends, and we work towards the late afternoon minima.
The models are generally bring the storm up to a CAT 3 within 24-48 hours, and this seems likely to be the upper limit
based on the projected 200mb outflow wind speeds , and the SST's that while very warm -- are not quite of the level
CAT 4 or CAT 5 storms are made of. Even if the storm attains a CAT, Major Hurricane intensity -- the possibility
of increasing mid to upper level shear by Friday and Saturday along the Texas coast, and slightly cooler SST's -- may
bring the storm back down a full Category prior to landfall.



INITIAL 19/0300Z 22.9N 73.3W 45 KT
12HR VT 19/1200Z 23.4N 75.1W 50 KT
24HR VT 20/0000Z 24.1N 77.5W 60 KT
36HR VT 20/1200Z 24.3N 80.1W 75 KT
48HR VT 21/0000Z 24.2N 83.0W 90 KT
72HR VT 22/0000Z 24.1N 88.5W 100 KT
96HR VT 23/0000Z 24.5N 92.0W 100 KT
120HR VT 24/0000Z 26.5N 95.5W 100 KT No one anticipated a catagory 5 storm.

Travis and I never said she would go south of Corpus. Never. Feel free to go back and check on that yourself.

But there is a significant difference between what Travis and I did, and what you do. We looked at the data, analyzed it, and came up with our best ideas of what the storm was doing and where it was going to go based on an understanding of how these things work.

You? For all I know you do nothign more than throw a dart at a map or flat out guess. There is no thought regarding your "predictions". Everything is a chance to make a prediction and see it come true for you. You just guess away.

So don't sit there and try to tell me how wrong I was. I rarely engage you because you bring NOTHING to the table. At best, you're a spin doctor, and a feeble shotty one at that.

But if you really want to try to prove me wrong on this subject, I'll sit here and make you look like the ignorant fuck you are. :)

[MannyIsGod]

Then tell us what kind of trucks were used Manny? Where they the big gas trucks you see delivering fuel to stations aroud town? Or were they trucks converted from some other use? What kind of nozzle was used?
They were TXDOT fuel tankers. Do they deliver fuel to gas stations? No. The knid of nozzle? Looked a lot like what you'd find on your gas pump.

Do you want links too?

[Nbadan]

No one anticipated a catagory 5 storm.

Forget a CAT5, you didn't even anticipate a CAT4

I on the other hand said Rita would be at least a CAT4...


Contrary to Manny's beliefs, the water temperature is just right in the gulf for this thing to blow up...

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6973/map1uy.jpg

Rita is moving faster than Katrina which may stop if from developing into a CAT5, but a CAT4 or a strong CAT3 is definitely not out of the question because of water temperature in the Gulf.

Posted 9-19 by Nbadan:Link (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25457&page=1&pp=30)

[MannyIsGod]

And your assumption was based on water tempature which was not the reason she got that strong. You dont' seem to understand that you got lucky. Good job, Dan! You didn't/don't even realize the reason she got to the level she did and didn't/aren't using that as your reasoning but damn, you sure know whats going on!

Bravo, Bravo!

[MannyIsGod]

You see, its kind of the way it was in Algebra class, Dan. You had to show your work when you figured out a problem.

Well, the work you're showing is all fucked up, and just by luck you've stumbled upon the answer. But you still don't fundementaly know what your doing.

[Hook Dem]

Just to give you a frame of reference



No one anticipated a catagory 5 storm.

Travis and I never said she would go south of Corpus. Never. Feel free to go back and check on that yourself.

But there is a significant difference between what Travis and I did, and what you do. We looked at the data, analyzed it, and came up with our best ideas of what the storm was doing and where it was going to go based on an understanding of how these things work.

You? For all I know you do nothign more than throw a dart at a map or flat out guess. There is no thought regarding your "predictions". Everything is a chance to make a prediction and see it come true for you. You just guess away.

So don't sit there and try to tell me how wrong I was. I rarely engage you because you bring NOTHING to the table. At best, you're a spin doctor, and a feeble shotty one at that.

But if you really want to try to prove me wrong on this subject, I'll sit here and make you look like the ignorant fuck you are. :)
Tear him a new one Manny! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Oh and Dan, the information I posted above from the National Hurricane Center was a forcast of a 3 storm at landfall. But obviously you're methods are superior. Carry on.

[Nbadan]

And your assumption was based on water tempature which was not the reason she got that strong. You dont' seem to understand that you got lucky. Good job, Dan! You didn't/don't even realize the reason she got to the level she did and didn't/aren't using that as your reasoning but damn, you sure know whats going on!

Bravo, Bravo!

No, my assumptions were based on a bit more than that. I took the established pattern of Hurricanes this year, current Lows and Highs in the Southwest and Southeast, water temperature in Rita path, the effects of El Nino, and to a lesser extent, sheer factor and threw it all into a algebraic algorithm and came up with some pretty exact probabilities. But obviously, all that is way beyond you so I won’t bore you with the details.

[MannyIsGod]

No, my assumptions were based on a bit more than that. I took the established pattern of Hurricanes this year, current Lows and Highs in the Southwest and Southeast, water temperature in Rita path, the effects of El Nino, and to a lesser extent, sheer factor and threw it all into a algebraic algorithm and came up with some pretty exact probabilities. But obviously, all that is way beyond you so I won’t bore you with the details.
:lmao

I guess you're starting to realize your nothing more than a joke to most of the people here. At least this time you were a funny one.

[Nbadan]

Just for the record, my calculated landfall spot was just South of Freeport TX less than 100 miles from the eventual actual land-fall spot. If only the National Hurricane Center could be so accurate so early with their probabilities. Save people a lot of trouble.

[MannyIsGod]

Just for the record, my calculated landfall spot was just South of Freeport TX less than 100 miles from the eventual actual land-fall spot. If only the National Hurricane Center could be so accurate so early with their probabilities. Save people a lot of trouble.
If only. You should go work for them with your super prediction capabilities. You could save the world Dan. One coastal town at a time!

[Yonivore]

:lmao

I guess you're starting to realize your nothing more than a joke to most of the people here. At least this time you were a funny one.
C'mon Manny, ask him for the algorithm. I dare ya!

[Nbadan]

:lmao

I guess you're starting to realize your nothing more than a joke to most of the people here. At least this time you were a funny one.

Everyone is a joke here Manny. Once you realize that, you have reached a new level of forum enlightenment.

[Nbadan]

If only. You should go work for them with your super prediction capabilities. You could save the world Dan. One coastal town at a time!

Not interested. I'm having to much fun doing what I do.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

I love the El Nino part of that.

1 - No El Nino right now.
2 - El Nino increases wind sheer over the Atlantic and results in hurricane seasons with fewer storms. It has not effect on individual storms other than to possibly provide a less favorable environment.

[MannyIsGod]

Everyone is a joke here Manny. Once you realize that, you have reached a new level of forum enlightenment.
Far from it. There are several people here who provide great insight and bring intelligence to the table.

[Nbadan]

C'mon Manny, ask him for the algorithm. I dare ya!

Yeah, like I'm gonna let Manny have something like that.

:rolleyes

[Nbadan]

Far from it. There are several people here who provide great insight and bring intelligence to the table.

...and many people who quickly come to realize that they don't actually know shit about shit.