Post Tim Center Discussion

[raybies]

Free Agents:
J. Noah
R. Hibbert
T. Mozgov

Trade Targets:
Brook Lopez
AL Horford

Draft Prospects:
AJ Hammons
Prince Ibeh

Draft Rights Held:
Nikola Milutinov
Livio Jean-Charles

International Prospects:
?????

Current Spurs:
B. Marjanovich
D. West

Who can we afford? Expected Salaries for prospects? Could we play Aldridge at the five and maybe find a rim protecting four? Will we wave Diaw or trade him to increase cap? Who are the prospects most spurs like? Any players I missed that could be a potential replacement?

Indulge me please :lol Slow day

[raybies]

I'll start first lol. What a slow day.

I like Hibbert as a cheap big option if we can get boban as well. What is Roy's range though? Hard to pin that down. As for Boban I would say a two year deal at 8-10 mill. So if we could get Hibbert for about the same, would that be a decent center rotation? In this scenario I would draft a big as well.

One scenario that's gaining momentum in my mind is Mozgov. He should be in line for about 7-9 mill per year I think. I mean Baynes is making about that much. He's a decent rim protector, he's mobile, and he has range. He does well in the pick and roll. I think he would do well with some structure and a role. In this scenario, boban likely walks. Still I think we should draft a big.

Don't really like Noah because of his attitude, but if he can rekindle that passion he might be very serviceable. Coming off injury he should be looking at long-term deal at a modest salary like 7-8 mill annually. Might be able to pay boban as well.

As for the playing LMA at the five, you could maybe sign some rim protecting four. Maybe livio could have a chance at that role. He's currently playing the four on his team as a starter, in a similar role as we could have available. Defensively he's very mobile and a shotblocker. If he could hit the mid range j he could be our Serge ibaka. When I watched him last he was shooting the mid range j.

[Shipupi]

Horford is a free agent this offseason. There's also Whiteside if you're looking for a rim protector. Also 76ers might be wanting to trade Okafor/Noel so there might be something in there too.

Personally I think Noel would be the ideal target and he would compliment Aldrige really well. Whiteside has that same Noel type, but he's a bit of a headcase and would depend on Pop to keep him on check. From what everyone says Horford is the perfect fit, but I haven't really wathced much of him, and I prefer centers to be defensive beasts.

[lil'mo]

Losers

[raybies]

Horford is a free agent this offseason. There's also Whiteside if you're looking for a rim protector. Also 76ers might be wanting to trade Okafor/Noel so there might be something in there too.

Personally I think Noel would be the ideal target and he would compliment Aldrige really well. Whiteside has that same Noel type, but he's a bit of a headcase and would depend on Pop to keep him on check. From what everyone says Horford is the perfect fit, but I haven't really wathced much of him, and I prefer centers to be defensive beasts.

Yeah, I like Horford just don't think we'd have enough to sign him outright. Maybe a sign and trade but who could we deal. Not enough money unless we traded Duncan and Manu contact but that might be blasphemy.

I like Noel as others have said him but what assets do we have to entice Philadelphia to a deal?

[Big Empty]

Draft Ebih. Sign another Nice FA with the extra cap space.

[tbdog]

I was really hoping Hibbert gets bought out and we pick him up. Having a legit center would be nice to backup for TD against Thunder/Clippers.

[raybies]

I was really hoping Hibbert gets bought out and we pick him up. Having a legit center would be nice to backup for TD against Thunder/Clippers.

Yeah me too, would of been an excellent trial run to see if he can play. I mean he's only 29 and had said he would like to play till he's 40 if he could. I think here would be a perfect situation to resurrect his career. If not he shouldn't cost much.

[TheDoctor]

One thing I like from Hibbert is that he's an excellent FT shooter.

[palangi]

I want us to draft aj hammons

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-JYUrwFFNw

[TD 21]

I still think Duncan is more likely to return than not, but we'll see what kind of shape his knee is in after the season and whether he thinks it can hold up for another season.

Either way, they won't be able to afford Horford, Noah or Mozgov and don't have the (realistic, since they're not touching the core) assets for Lopez. Noel is also not affordable and they'd more than likely match any offer he might receive anyway.

Milutinov, even if brought over, is obviously not an option to start next season, Jean-Charles isn't a center and neither is West. It's one thing to play it for two stints a game, mostly against backups, but it's another to do it full time against starters.

Varejao, Hibbert, Aldrich and (Miles) Plumlee, are more realistic targets. In other words, 20 mpg stop gaps, with Aldridge and Marjanovic soaking up the remaining minutes.

[EVAY]

I was really hoping Hibbert gets bought out and we pick him up. Having a legit center would be nice to backup for TD against Thunder/Clippers.

I really like the idea of Hibbert. He worked out with Duncan several summers to improve his game. He is disciplined and and a very blue-collar worker - very 'spursian', imo. Very willing to learn.

[elemento]

I still think Duncan is more likely to return than not, but we'll see what kind of shape his knee is in after the season and whether he thinks it can hold up for another season.

Either way, they won't be able to afford Horford, Noah or Mozgov and don't have the (realistic, since they're not touching the core) assets for Lopez. Noel is also not affordable and they'd more than likely match any offer he might receive anyway.

Milutinov, even if brought over, is obviously not an option to start next season, Jean-Charles isn't a center and neither is West. It's one thing to play it for two stints a game, mostly against backups, but it's another to do it full time against starters.

Varejao, Hibbert, Aldrich and (Miles) Plumlee, are more realistic targets. In other words, 20 mpg stop gaps, with Aldridge and Marjanovic soaking up the remaining minutes.

Pretty much how I see this.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs center post Duncan is Aldridge. He already is playing center a lot.

[TrainOfThought5]

Spurs center post Duncan is Aldridge. He already is playing center a lot.


The question is where can we find an athletic rim protecting, pnrolling power forward

[Arcadian]

Post Tim... :(

It will never be the same.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The question is where can we find an athletic rim protecting, pnrolling power forward

Difficult to do because there are very few rim protectors that can shoot, but ideally, Serge Ibaka is a UFA in 2017 and Spurs will have cap space.

[dabom]

Difficult to do because there are very few rim protectors that can shoot, but ideally, Serge Ibaka is a UFA in 2017 and Spurs will have cap space.

LMA is not a center you stupid fuck. :lmao

[spurraider21]

we've gotta make the center position great again

[Chinook]

Spurs center post Duncan is Aldridge. He already is playing center a lot.

Seriously. People shouldn't put too much stock into LMA's desire to be a power-forward. Spurs fans should know all about that. PATFO just need to do what they can to get a good big next to him. It can be a four like Sullinger or a five like Gasol. It doesn't really matter. When you have a guy like Aldridge who has center size and PF skill, you don't shoehorn yourself into any one position I could see anyone from Anderson to West to Diaw to Boban starting next to him in 2016-2017, if we're just looking at this current roster.

[Chinook]

we've gotta make the center position great again

And Mexico's going to pay for it.

[BillMc]

And Mexico's going to pay for it.
:lol

[Fireball]

I am not past the "acceptance phase" yet ...

[MoSpur]

Until its Tim Duncan's last game, it will always be too early to talk about this.

[Thomas82]

Until its Tim Duncan's last game, it will always be too early to talk about this.

Cosign!!

[raybies]

The question is where can we find an athletic rim protecting, pnrolling power forward
Livio ?

[Chinook]

Livio ?

Eventually, maybe. If LJC had been here for the past few years, then he would be a candidate. But he's obviously not going to come over and start right away unless he has an awesome training camp.

[Maddog]

Livio ?


Eventually, maybe. If LJC had been here for the past few years, then he would be a candidate. But he's obviously not going to come over and start right away unless he has an awesome training camp.

The guy is rail thin, Probably more a 3/4 as opposed to a 4/5. Add in that he has very few skills beyond hustle/athleticism doubt he'll be a significant option.

I think this is an interesting topic for a slow day.

I may be a Debbie downer, but I suspect this is Tim's last year. If not, I suspect his role will diminish even further.
While he is definitely not the player he was 2002->2007 this is the first time that he has seemed significantly worse than the previous year. Not sure about the knee. Tim is still effective, don't get me wrong, but less so. Getting another productive year out of him, seems less likely.
Unfortunately, not a lot of options out there. The PATFO has surprised me before, they've always been good at realizing they need to upgrade or change. Maybe not as fast as we wish...
However, next year could be tough.

[Chinook]

I don't think LJC is too think to be a legit four in today's league. He'd be small for a full-time center, but at the same time, I don't think he'd be too small against small-ball centers. The only issue is that his shooting isn't good enough to play in small-ball. He really needs a reliable three. And for the love of god, he needs to catch the ball better than he did in the SL.

[Atl Spur]

I really think the organization still has hopes of getting Ryan Richards over here in an under the radar type move as well as the kid in the dleague at center.

[Chinook]

I really think the organization still has hopes of getting Ryan Richards over here in an under the radar type move as well as the kid in the dleague at center.

Richards is another guy who should have been a Spur the same year he was drafted. Dude had talent but lacked direction. Dunno if he would have washed out still, but had he coming over right away, I feel he would be making eight figures a year by now.

[Atl Spur]

Richards is still more skilled than anyone on the previous list and is still young. Get him over here now and watch him flourish.

[Chinook]

Richards is still more skilled than anyone on the previous list and is still young. Get him over here now and watch him flourish.

Don't become the new PlayBlair/DTxLR, please. Richards needs to come back to the summer league before the RC should even add his number back into his phone.

[TrainOfThought5]

LJC has no skills. And Richards has no motivation, or brains.

I was preferring someone that had both.

[Chinook]

LJC has no skills. And Richards has no motivation, or brains.

I was preferring someone that had both.

LJC has skill, just not on offense. He has great hands and time from blocked shots and steals, and he's pretty agile. Also seems like a smart guys who knows how the game's supposed to be played on both ends. They can work with a defense-first guy who just doesn't have a lot of offensive polish. Chip can get that shot to be consistent, so it's really just catching that's the concern. But the team needs more defense, especially in the post-Duncan era.

[Maddog]

LJC has no skills. And Richards has no motivation, or brains.

I was preferring someone that had both.

Aren't we picky :lol

[TrainOfThought5]

LJC has skill, just not on offense. He has great hands and time from blocked shots and steals, and he's pretty agile. Also seems like a smart guys who knows how the game's supposed to be played on both ends. They can work with a defense-first guy who just doesn't have a lot of offensive polish. Chip can get that shot to be consistent, so it's really just catching that's the concern. But the team needs more defense, especially in the post-Duncan era.

When did agility become a skill? And if hes useless on one half of the court, how does that satisfy the need for skills for a starting power forward on a championship team? I know we gotta be cheap.. and creative, and maybe gamble on hope a little... nevermind hes perfect.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Richards is pure garbage and his career is way beyond salvation.

[Chinook]

When did agility become a skill? And if hes useless on one half of the court, how does that satisfy the need for skills for a starting power forward on a championship team? I know we gotta be cheap.. and creative, and maybe gamble on hope a little... nevermind hes perfect.

Agility certainly is a skill, just like dexterity. Being fast might be genetic, but his ability to move his feet well enough to guard on switches is something the team is sorely lacking from their bigs. I don't think he'd be a starter next year if he comes over. But I do think that he would have been a candidate to start had he been a Spur for the last few years. Dude has talent, and if his jumper is truly back, then he will be able to get minutes right off the bat.

[Chinook]

Richards is pure garbage and his career is way beyond salvation.

Like WAY beyond. Probably the biggest example of wasted talent in recent Spurs history.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Like WAY beyond. Probably the biggest example of wasted talent in recent Spurs history.

I'm not sure about the talent part. I haven't watched him too much, obviously ( who has? ), but the only good things I've seen him do were against midgets and a really really low competition. Sure, he did seem to have the body type and a soft touch but then a lot of players seem to have great attributes against low competition, which would never translate to pro level, let alone NBA level.

[Maddog]

Richards is pure garbage and his career is way beyond salvation.

Not sure about that

28 points 10 rebounds last game
Averaging 20 and 8.7 in 24 games

http://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/093/11593-gorgan-locator-map.jpg

[SpursforSix]

Richards is pure garbage and his career is way beyond salvation.

so is his gay soul.

[J_Paco]

I'm shocked that Ian Mahinmi's name hasn't been brought up at all. He's finally looking like a legitimate starting center or first big off the bench. He could replace Duncan's production or back him up at a cheap price, but a decision needs to be made on Diaw or West...

[Chinook]

I'm shocked that Ian Mahinmi's name hasn't been brought up at all. He's finally looking like a legitimate starting center or first off the bench.

I brought him up a few threads ago. He's not a bad player. But he's also not going to be a bargain given that he's been starting in Indiana this year and is performing well there. Unless Bird doubles down at playing PG at PF, I assume they'll pony up to keep him.

[SpursFan86]

I brought him up a few threads ago. He's not a bad player. But he's also not going to be a bargain given that he's been starting in Indiana this year and is performing well there. Unless Bird doubles down at playing PG at PF, I assume they'll pony up to keep him.

Myles Turner is looking really promising, and they've been starting him recently. That could play into how much effort they put into keeping Mahinmi.

Honestly, I think Aldridge is pretty well suited to be a center. Assuming he's fine with playing it, I'd just as rather slide him over to center when Tim leaves and then get a shooting PF who can space the floor.

[SpursforSix]

Myles Turner is looking really promising, and they've been starting him recently. That could play into how much effort they put into keeping Mahinmi.

Honestly, I think Aldridge is pretty well suited to be a center. Assuming he's fine with playing it, I'd just as rather slide him over to center when Tim leaves and then get a shooting PF who can space the floor.

Unfortunately, Aldridge doesn't seem to want to play a true center role.

[dabom]

Seriously. People shouldn't put too much stock into LMA's desire to be a power-forward. Spurs fans should know all about that. PATFO just need to do what they can to get a good big next to him. It can be a four like Sullinger or a five like Gasol. It doesn't really matter. When you have a guy like Aldridge who has center size and PF skill, you don't shoehorn yourself into any one position I could see anyone from Anderson to West to Diaw to Boban starting next to him in 2016-2017, if we're just looking at this current roster.

Bookmarked for shitty take. I hope you don't turn this around and say, "well I said both possibilities ya ya ya...." :lmao

[dabom]

Anyone debating a PF next to LMA in the starting lineup is a stupid fuck :lmao

I just can't take ya serious with that stupid shiz. :lmao

[raybies]

Imo you sign a community of low price bigs and you spend however long it takes, during the season, to find the right fit. In this scenario, I like what a poster said about Plumlee and Aldrich, also Hibbert. So you sign one of those three leaving you with enough money to resign Boban. You then draft a big like Onuaku, Hammons, or Ibeh. Also sign livio who adds another defensive big at another position.

This way you have four shots at finding the best fit. In this scenario, I would like Plumlee, Boban, Hammons, and Livio.

[TD 21]

Spurs center post Duncan is Aldridge. He already is playing center a lot.

By default, mainly because of the presence of West. He's more than likely gone in the off season though and even if he isn't, he's obviously not a long term solution.

Not to suggest Aldridge won't play a decent amount of center, but it'll be more match-up dependent.

That, along with his aversion to it (I suspect they have an understanding with him) and their proclivity to start traditional, beyond just stature, is why they won't build the roster with the intent of him being the starting center, for at least the duration of his contract. As he ages, they probably will look to pair him with a center, that is mobile enough to cross match, though.



Honestly, I think Aldridge is pretty well suited to be a center. Assuming he's fine with playing it, I'd just as rather slide him over to center when Tim leaves and then get a shooting PF who can space the floor.

Aldridge isn't suited to being a starting center. He's a mediocre rim protector and would be a sub par rebounder for the position, too.

Despite him all but abandoning the three this season, he showed last season that he's capable and I suspect it becomes a significant focus this summer.

As long as Bertans becomes a legit NBA player, then between him, Aldridge, Diaw and Anderson, they should be able to get by going forward, as far as shooting, at power forward. Diaw and Anderson are obviously more play making types, but perimeter oriented all the same.

[MaNu4Tres]

With the way the league is going, I'd go after Batum this off-season and insert him in the starting lineup w/Leonard, Green, Parker and LMA.

That is if Tim retires and if Horford isn't available ( which is likely).

Other FA that interest me that'll be cheap(er) than Horford/Batum: Biyombo, Marvin Williams, Ersan, Terrance Jones or D-MO (buying low w/ both ex- Rockets).

League's changing.

[dabom]

Spurs don't play around the league, they play around their players.

[Chinook]

Myles Turner is looking really promising, and they've been starting him recently. That could play into how much effort they put into keeping Mahinmi.

Honestly, I think Aldridge is pretty well suited to be a center. Assuming he's fine with playing it, I'd just as rather slide him over to center when Tim leaves and then get a shooting PF who can space the floor.

They're playing both together. I think they should keep doing that. If they decide to let Turner be a PF and George an SF, they will have a lot of incentive to keep Ian.

[SAGirl]

The guy is rail thin, Probably more a 3/4 as opposed to a 4/5. Add in that he has very few skills beyond hustle/athleticism doubt he'll be a significant option.

I think this is an interesting topic for a slow day.

I may be a Debbie downer, but I suspect this is Tim's last year. If not, I suspect his role will diminish even further.
While he is definitely not the player he was 2002->2007 this is the first time that he has seemed significantly worse than the previous year. Not sure about the knee. Tim is still effective, don't get me wrong, but less so. Getting another productive year out of him, seems less likely.
Unfortunately, not a lot of options out there. The PATFO has surprised me before, they've always been good at realizing they need to upgrade or change. Maybe not as fast as we wish...
However, next year could be tough.

You are not a Debbie downer... I agree with you on both fronts. Timmy has looked his age finally and with the knee situation I see retirement as a possibility. I don't think he will leave the team half way through next season for example if all of a sudden he reached K.Garnett levels. So the plan if he decides to resign, is probably to reduce his role and minutes, which still requires an additional big to play a part with the SL. Our bench already has issues with two undersized bigs.. so our need for a rim protector remains.

[SAGirl]

I'm shocked that Ian Mahinmi's name hasn't been brought up at all. He's finally looking like a legitimate starting center or first big off the bench. He could replace Duncan's production or back him up at a cheap price, but a decision needs to be made on Diaw or West...
I have wondered if Manu and Timmy retire, is it the time to let go of Diaw?
Anderson is cut from a similar mold and beyond him, we have other PF prospects likely coming over as well if Anderson is not your cup of tea. There is just a logjam at that spot and not enough quality guards if Manu retires too, and not enough real centers. (like say if Timmy/Manu pair up their retirements).

[Chinook]

With the way the league is going, I'd go after Batum this off-season and insert him in the starting lineup w/Leonard, Green, Parker and LMA.

That is if Tim retires and if Horford isn't available ( which is likely).

Other FA that interest me that'll be cheap(er) than Horford/Batum: Biyombo, Marvin Williams, Ersan, Terrance Jones or D-MO (buying low w/ both ex- Rockets).

League's changing.

I like the idea of adding someone young who's an RFA so they can better line up with Kawhi. Sullinger or Jones would be nice, and I don't think either team would match a deal in the $14 Million APY range. The Spurs just have to make sure that whoever they give the money to is worth it.

[TD 21]

With the way the league is going, I'd go after Batum this off-season and insert him in the starting lineup w/Leonard, Green, Parker and LMA.

That is if Tim retires and if Horford isn't available ( which is likely).

Other FA that interest me that'll be cheap(er) than Horford/Batum: Biyombo, Marvin Williams, Ersan, Terrance Jones or D-MO (buying low w/ both ex- Rockets).

League's changing.

They don't have the money for Batum and even if they did, I seriously doubt either him or Leonard would be down with consistently guarding power forwards.

Besides, we just saw how Aldridge, at center, surrounded by a power forward, who is a sub par rim protector and a mediocre rebounder, looks. Opponent points in the paint soared and defensive rebounding percentage steadily declined.

Those things still and will always matter, even to the Warriors, who have two traditional centers. And they're especially important against them, since it's impossible to build an offense as good as theirs.

The fact that Aldridge is center sized and has abandoned the three, this season, doesn't make him a center and people who think that is going to happen are ignoring how this organization is run.



Spurs don't play around the league, they play around their players.

Excellent point.



I have wondered if Manu and Timmy retire, is it the time to let go of Diaw?
Anderson is cut from a similar mold and beyond him, we have other PF prospects likely coming over as well if Anderson is not your cup of tea. There is just a logjam at that spot and not enough quality guards if Manu retires too, and not enough real centers. (like say if Timmy/Manu pair up their retirements).

I'd probably keep Diaw through next season either way and then at that point, evaluate where him, Anderson and to a lesser extent, Bertans are at, before making a decision.

[Chinook]

LMA IS a traditional center who can play power-forward. At no time in the history of the league would Aldridge have been too small to play the five. Sure, when he was a rookie he was rail thin and wouldn't have played the five, but his current make-up allows him to match-up with any five in the league physically outside of the true giants like Boban.

I think it's fool-hardy to expect the Spurs to get a bigger center than Aldridge (not that's it's impossible; it's just not likely). And if they end up going with a JaG/scrub like Kaman/Perkins or a rookie like Ndoye/whatever that UT guy that people are falling in love with instead of bringing in a legit, young PF, the team's going to be a lot worse off. If they can get a great center like Pau for a year or two, that's fine. But without Tim and Manu, the Spurs will not be contenders in 2016-2017 (unless Pau is like a god and they find a random awesome vet bench leader). So they need to spend their cap on long-term pieces. They can afford to sign a significant piece each of the next three summers. They shouldn't waste that money trying to keep Aldridge at the four just to keep him happy.

[dabom]

Anyone who thinks LMA is a traditional Center who shoots jumpshots and has a shitty back to the basket game and isn't a good rim protector is a fucking moron. :lmao

Watch more fucking basketball. :lmao

[TD 21]

LMA IS a traditional center who can play power-forward. At no time in the history of the league would Aldridge have been too small to play the five. Sure, when he was a rookie he was rail thin and wouldn't have played the five, but his current make-up allows him to match-up with any five in the league physically outside of the true giants like Boban.

I think it's fool-hardy to expect the Spurs to get a bigger center than Aldridge (not that's it's impossible; it's just not likely). And if they end up going with a JaG/scrub like Kaman/Perkins or a rookie like Ndoye/whatever that UT guy that people are falling in love with instead of bringing in a legit, young PF, the team's going to be a lot worse off. If they can get a great center like Pau for a year or two, that's fine. But without Tim and Manu, the Spurs will not be contenders in 2016-2017 (unless Pau is like a god and they find a random awesome vet bench leader). So they need to spend their cap on long-term pieces. They can afford to sign a significant piece each of the next three summers. They shouldn't waste that money trying to keep Aldridge at the four just to keep him happy.

Again, it's not all about stature. It's about the style of play of the player, honoring a designation that's important to the biggest external free agent signing in franchise history and the organizational preference to start traditionally. Obviously, Aldridge can and will be playing a good amount of center, but the match-ups will dictate that.

They won't go with a fringe player; more like a placeholder starter, like Oberto and Splitter were. They always split minutes with Horry and Diaw, with Duncan shifting to center for many of those minutes. This will be no different.

[dabom]

looks like a duck quacks like a duck swims like a duck, then it's a fucking duck faggots. :lmao

[dabom]

We got some very delusional people here who thinks LMA is a fucking center. :lmao

[dabom]

LMA has made it fucking clear he doesn't want to be a center full time. Yeah he can play small ball center sometimes.

But not full time. He plays nothing like a center besides his height and length. He has little experience playing a center role full time and that wouldn't make him a better player if the Spurs decided to. That is not his fucking game. :lmao

[raybies]

LMA IS a traditional center who can play power-forward. At no time in the history of the league would Aldridge have been too small to play the five. Sure, when he was a rookie he was rail thin and wouldn't have played the five, but his current make-up allows him to match-up with any five in the league physically outside of the true giants like Boban.

I think it's fool-hardy to expect the Spurs to get a bigger center than Aldridge (not that's it's impossible; it's just not likely). And if they end up going with a JaG/scrub like Kaman/Perkins or a rookie like Ndoye/whatever that UT guy that people are falling in love with instead of bringing in a legit, young PF, the team's going to be a lot worse off. If they can get a great center like Pau for a year or two, that's fine. But without Tim and Manu, the Spurs will not be contenders in 2016-2017 (unless Pau is like a god and they find a random awesome vet bench leader). So they need to spend their cap on long-term pieces. They can afford to sign a significant piece each of the next three summers. They shouldn't waste that money trying to keep Aldridge at the four just to keep him happy.

This is why I can see a power forward playing next to him. He just needs a rim protector beside him. Doesn't have to be someone that can switch and guard the perimeter but if he can that's a plus. That's why I think Livio has a very small chance to start next year if he can prove he can be a reliable shooter. If they decide to stop gap the position for a couple seasons, which I believe is the best move, then they can wait to have cap room when the salary balloons. Don't know how much of a player we'll be in the market but the plus in this is that maybe one of the players turns out to be a success, which in that case we just resign them and use the money elsewhere. I'm unsure which group I fall into, in the aspect of sign max players or sign allot of really good players. I think when the cap balloons we'll be needing a point guard, if we haven't already drafted a quality one.

I still would prefer to have a traditional center because I think Aldridge plays better against smaller players but with a rim protector there I don't think it would matter as much.

[Chinook]

Again, it's not all about stature. It's about the style of play of the player, honoring a designation that's important to the biggest external free agent signing in franchise history and the organizational preference to start traditionally. Obviously, Aldridge can and will be playing a good amount of center, but the match-ups will dictate that.

The Spurs probably have more experience than any team with having a star big want to be a PF even though he's a center. If they didn't consistently cater to their franchise player by getting him a center to play next to for all those years, they aren't going to do it to Aldridge. I'm sure whoever lines up next to LMA will be listed as the center, just as Anderson was in that one game he started a PF against Houston. But it's simply much easier on LMA long term to have the best big he can next to him, because even a combo-forward like Young or Jones doesn't more to help him on both ends that a plodder like Kaman would. And if the Spurs find a way to keep Boban, he can totally come in a play next to LMA to let him slide to the four for a while.


They won't go with a fringe player; more like a placeholder starter, like Oberto and Splitter were. They always split minutes with Horry and Diaw, with Duncan shifting to center for many of those minutes. This will be no different.

It's a question of money just like it is with the rest of the roster. The Spurs will have about $14 Million, assuming a $92-Million cap and that they can get out of Tim and Manu's deal with no dead money, convince West to opt out (and hopefully re-sign for the min, but maybe he'd move on or take the room exception) and renounce all of their free agents while also bringing over LJC and another draft pick. They can use that money on a couple of JaGs to fill in the cracks of a lost season, or they can use it all on one player who could end up being part of the core for years to come. Personally, I'd rather them do the second thing and go with a guy like Clarkson, Jones or Sullinger and only move onto "placeholders" if everything else fails.

[TrainOfThought5]

Imo you sign a community of low price bigs and you spend however long it takes, during the season, to find the right fit. In this scenario, I like what a poster said about Plumlee and Aldrich, also Hibbert. So you sign one of those three leaving you with enough money to resign Boban. You then draft a big like Onuaku, Hammons, or Ibeh. Also sign livio who adds another defensive big at another position.

This way you have four shots at finding the best fit. In this scenario, I would like Plumlee, Boban, Hammons, and Livio.

Two of those three draft names sound african. Im on board.

Just Say no to white big men.

[TD 21]

This is why I can see a power forward playing next to him. He just needs a rim protector beside him. Doesn't have to be someone that can switch and guard the perimeter but if he can that's a plus. That's why I think Livio has a very small chance to start next year if he can prove he can be a reliable shooter. If they decide to stop gap the position for a couple seasons, which I believe is the best move, then they can wait to have cap room when the salary balloons. Don't know how much of a player we'll be in the market but the plus in this is that maybe one of the players turns out to be a success, which in that case we just resign them and use the money elsewhere. I'm unsure which group I fall into, in the aspect of sign max players or sign allot of really good players. I think when the cap balloons we'll be needing a point guard, if we haven't already drafted a quality one.

I still would prefer to have a traditional center because I think Aldridge plays better against smaller players but with a rim protector there I don't think it would matter as much.

Some of you seem to think rim protecting, stretch power forwards grow on trees and will be readily available.

Jean-Charles is a fringe prospect, that's far more likely to not even be an NBA player than he is a starter. In the highly unlikely even he became one, that's years away.



The Spurs probably have more experience than any team with having a star big want to be a PF even though he's a center. If they didn't consistently cater to their franchise player by getting him a center to play next to for all those years, they aren't going to do it to Aldridge. I'm sure whoever lines up next to LMA will be listed as the center, just as Anderson was in that one game he started a PF against Houston. But it's simply much easier on LMA long term to have the best big he can next to him, because even a combo-forward like Young or Jones doesn't more to help him on both ends that a plodder like Kaman would. And if the Spurs find a way to keep Boban, he can totally come in a play next to LMA to let him slide to the four for a while.



It's a question of money just like it is with the rest of the roster. The Spurs will have about $14 Million, assuming a $92-Million cap and that they can get out of Tim and Manu's deal with no dead money, convince West to opt out (and hopefully re-sign for the min, but maybe he'd move on or take the room exception) and renounce all of their free agents while also bringing over LJC and another draft pick. They can use that money on a couple of JaGs to fill in the cracks of a lost season, or they can use it all on one player who could end up being part of the core for years to come. Personally, I'd rather them do the second thing and go with a guy like Clarkson, Jones or Sullinger and only move onto "placeholders" if everything else fails.

What are you talking about? They've mostly started a center next to Duncan. As he aged, they made sure their center was mobile enough to defend power forwards. This despite Duncan's game being skewed more towards being a center, unlike Aldridge's.

Marjanovic will likely split the backup center minutes with Aldridge, but he's probably a match-up dependent player. They already have a play making/stretch power forward, in Diaw; what they need is a center in the mold of Splitter.

I also don't get the assumption that they'll be able to find a better power forward than center or at least a better fit. Clarkson, Jones and Sullinger are RFA's and even in a case like Jones, where the team may be ready to move on, they'll still probably match, just to retain the asset, unless the offer is astronomical.

[dabom]

TD21 doing God's work here.

Must have ate a truff bomb sandwich earlier. :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::w orthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::wor thy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy::worth y:

[r0drig0lac]

Goatside raping Raymond/Bogut

[elemento]

My 5 cents here

I don't think Aldridge is a Center at all. He has always been a jump-shooting BIG, a so so rebounder and not a rim protector. That's exactly the opposite definition of what a Center should be.

He is a PF that could slide to the 5 position depending on the match up or the Spurs personal. The only reason why he has been playing the 5 so much this season because the Spurs are too deep at the 4 while too slim at the 5.

Let's say SA drafts Rudy Gobert in 2013 instead of Utah. Do you really think that Aldridge would log several minutes as a Center if the Spurs had Duncan/Gobert/Boban at the 5? Nah. Maybe if Pop decides to go small to counter an opposite lineup and that's it.

[dabom]

I wonder if SAGirl thinks LMA is a center...

[Chinook]

What are you talking about? They've mostly started a center next to Duncan. As he aged, they made sure their center was mobile enough to defend power forwards. This despite Duncan's game being skewed more towards being a center, unlike Aldridge's.

The Spurs have only started centers next to Duncan when the center has been a really good player who could handle starter's minutes. So the first six years of Tim's 19-year career he spent with Robinson, who was never going to be benched. After that, Tim was in his prime and like most teams, the Spurs wanted to get a designated defender to take pressure off their star. So enter Rasho and Nazr for three years combined. Then you see them starting to get smaller guys next to him with Oberto, Bonner, McDyess and Blair starting the majority of the next six seasons. Then you finally get a center who can start next to Tim again, and you get Splitter for three seasons. Then you get LMA.

That parallels what I said about what they should do for Aldridge. They got the best big they could and let Tim play the other position. A Tim got older, it became critical that they got a man-defensive center for sure. But they clearly went with shorter guys for years.


Marjanovic will likely split the backup center minutes with Aldridge, but he's probably a match-up dependent player. They already have a play making/stretch power forward, in Diaw; what they need is a center in the mold of Splitter.

Diaw is getting close to the end. He only has $3 Million guaranteed for the rest of his contract. I don't think the Spurs consider power-forward checked off on Boris' account any more than they did last year.


I also don't get the assumption that they'll be able to find a better power forward than center or at least a better fit. Clarkson, Jones and Sullinger are RFA's and even in a case like Jones, where the team may be ready to move on, they'll still probably match, just to retain the asset, unless the offer is astronomical.

Spurs should be able to afford a max deal to Clarkson (I haven't run the numbers on a $92-Million cap, but it would be REALLY close). And I think both of the other players are on teams that aren't going to surrender their cap space to keep guys who aren't part of their future. They're both looking for bigger fish this summer. I expect the Lakers to match, so a S&T wouldn't be a bad idea. But I think there's going to be a young player the Spurs can get for that money. As I said, they just need to pick the correct one.

[Chinook]

Let's say SA drafts Rudy Gobert in 2013 instead of Utah. Do you really think that Aldridge would log several minutes as a Center if the Spurs had Duncan/Gobert/Boban at the 5? Nah. Maybe if Pop decides to go small to counter an opposite lineup and that's it.

Is Duncan a center? Because if you were to post that question last year with Tim, Splitter, Gobert and say Baynes at the five, I think Tim would have played the four (along with Baynes), and Duncan is a natural center if there's ever been one.

[TD 21]

The Spurs have only started centers next to Duncan when the center has been a really good player who could handle starter's minutes. So the first six years of Tim's 19-year career he spent with Robinson, who was never going to be benched. After that, Tim was in his prime and like most teams, the Spurs wanted to get a designated defender to take pressure off their star. So enter Rasho and Nazr for three years combined. Then you see them starting to get smaller guys next to him with Oberto, Bonner, McDyess and Blair starting the majority of the next six seasons. Then you finally get a center who can start next to Tim again, and you get Splitter for three seasons. Then you get LMA.

That parallels what I said about what they should do for Aldridge. They got the best big they could and let Tim play the other position. A Tim got older, it became critical that they got a man-defensive center for sure. But they clearly went with shorter guys for years.



Diaw is getting close to the end. He only has $3 Million guaranteed for the rest of his contract. I don't think the Spurs consider power-forward checked off on Boris' account any more than they did last year.



Spurs should be able to afford a max deal to Clarkson (I haven't run the numbers on a $92-Million cap, but it would be REALLY close). And I think both of the other players are on teams that aren't going to surrender their cap space to keep guys who aren't part of their future. They're both looking for bigger fish this summer. I expect the Lakers to match, so a S&T wouldn't be a bad idea. But I think there's going to be a young player the Spurs can get for that money. As I said, they just need to pick the correct one.

Nesterovic, Mohammed, Oberto and Elson, were really good players? Only Nesterovic was a legit starter, at one time. Mohammed was a fringe one and Oberto and Elson were clear backups.

The defense fell off a cliff, when Bonner, McDyess, Blair and Diaw, started. Their main priority since then has been repairing the defense. I don't buy that they go away from that again, not when they've proven they can have elite offenses by starting traditional.

Most importantly, despite similar physical tools, Aldridge isn't Duncan. Duncan is an all-time great rim protector/rebounder.

Horford, Bosh, Davis, Ibaka and Aldridge, are true 4.5's. The ideal compliments to them, are a starting center, like Splitter and a backup power forward, like Diaw. Someone has to set sturdy screens, be a roller, protect the rim and rebound.

[Atl Spur]

I'm no advocate for Ryan Richards or anyone else to play or not play. It's just clear to me while watching his movements that he could be an asset to the team if his talents were properly harnessed. The young'in in the d-league Ndoy I also believe may make some noise before its all said and done.

[SAGirl]

I wonder if SAGirl (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49524) thinks LMA is a center...
He's not and although he has acted as one in small ball and due to Timmy' s sore knee, Pop clearly prefers him with Timmy together and our defense is better with Timmy. If you don't have Timmy though it's a real issue. I still like Boban very much but he has shown limitations defensively although he could improve.

[SpursFan86]

Where is this notion that LMA is a shitty rim protector coming from? I'd say he's at least average in that aspect. He rated out as an elite rim protector last year, but I haven't checked the numbers this year. Watching him this year he seems decent enough, certainly not so bad that you dread having him play center or anything like that.

He's nothing special rebounding-wise for a center, but depending on who you get at PF + having Kawhi at SF, I don't really think that's a deal breaker.

As for his back-to-the-basket game, he's in the top 20% in terms of post-up efficiency :lol Not sure how much better you want him to be.

I'm not saying he should play 100% of his minutes at center, but I really don't see why it's such a crazy idea to have him start at center and play a good amount of his minutes there (again, as I said in my original post, assuming he himself is fine with doing so).

[dabom]

He's not and although he has acted as one in small ball and due to Timmy' s sore knee, Pop clearly prefers him with Timmy together and our defense is better with Timmy. If you don't have Timmy though it's a real issue. I still like Boban very much but he has shown limitations defensively although he could improve.

Truth cereal for breakfast. :wow

[elemento]

Is Duncan a center? Because if you were to post that question last year with Tim, Splitter, Gobert and say Baynes at the five, I think Tim would have played the four (along with Baynes), and Duncan is a natural center if there's ever been one.

Depends on what version of Duncan. Prime Duncan could play both PF/C positions at elite level with no problem. He could be paired with Nazr or Horry, with Robinson or Rose.

Other than the game of a natural Center, Duncan had an outside shot, he was mobile enough to play help defense and he could guard most PFs/Cs in the league. He could do it all. Not everyone can do that. See what happened with the 76ers when they tried to play Noel as a 4. It was terrible simply because he can't play both PF/C positions. Not many players in the league can.

Aldridge is not a great rebounder, can't anchor a defense, not a great shot-blocker and offensively plays outside for the most part. That's not a C in any level. Why is he C? The only C thing he's got is size.

I don't think there's much doubt that old Duncan plays as a Center.

The key for Splitter in SA was mobility. He couldn't shoot, but he was good guarding mobile BIGs (mostly PFs) while Duncan no longer could. Yeah, you could say that Timmy played some 4 offensively with him, but not defensively. Duncan wouldn't be paired with Gobert because both lack mobility. A stretch BIG would murder them.

And quite honestly, if SA had nailed Gobert back in 2013, I don't even think that Baynes would have stayed longer than 1 season. Boris would probably have logged a lot of minutes with Gobert.

[Chinook]

Nesterovic, Mohammed, Oberto and Elson, were really good players? Only Nesterovic was a legit starter, at one time. Mohammed was a fringe one and Oberto and Elson were clear backups.

They were better than regular-season Horry and make-Blair-seem-like-a-legit-big Rose. They weren't Splitter's caliber, but they were the best bigs the team could get. And Oberto is smaller than Tim was and LMA is. So I don't think he's a good example of playing Tim next to a true center. If you just mean a guy who has to play at the rim, Blair counts.


The defense fell off a cliff, when Bonner, McDyess, Blair and Diaw, started. Their main priority since then has been repairing the defense. I don't buy that they go away from that again, not when they've proven they can have elite offenses by starting traditional.

The Spurs were third and eighth in the league the two years Bonner and McDyess started full time. Blair was a dumpster fire there for sure, and Diaw is only situational, but the defense falling off wasn't merely the result of using Tim as the primary center. The Spurs attacked their defensive issue both by starting Splitter and moving Green and Kawhi into bigger roles. That's not because they simply needed a center next to Tim (in your mind they don't have one now, and they're the best defense in the league). It's because they got really good defender to replace completely awful guys like Blair, Neal and Mason Jr.


Most importantly, despite similar physical tools, Aldridge isn't Duncan. Duncan is an all-time great rim protector/rebounder.

Yeah, Tim would be a top-10 center of all time. That's better than any center currently playing. LMA doesn't have to be Tim.


Horford, Bosh, Davis, Ibaka and Aldridge, are true 4.5's. The ideal compliments to them, are a starting center, like Splitter and a backup power forward, like Diaw. Someone has to set sturdy screens, be a roller, protect the rim and rebound.

This is awful similar to the Turner/Young debate we have a long time ago where you kept arguing that Turner was a natural two and Young was a natural four without any real elaboration. Horford and Bosh have been fives for years and do just fine there. Bosh in particular excels in an environment where he doesn't have a guy clogging the paint. The transition was a little rough, but he's caught up defensively, and if he can resume his career, he'll probably be a center full time again next season. Horford has been a five his whole career, and the Hawks haven't seemed remotely interested in changing that, hence why they signed Millsap and gave guys like Mike Scott long-term deals. You can site the Splitter trade all you want, but they got him for free, so I don't think the plan was ever to make him the starting five at the expense of Millsap.

Davis is a tweener in the worst way possible. He is a guy who really needs to be the five on offense but can't consistently play the five on defense. The only guys who really fit that mold are true stretch-fives, and as we have discussed, those are really rare. Ibaka is a four, and he only deviates from that in small-ball. You may as well have added Draymond as a 4.5.

LMA is more of a physical center than any of those guys, and he has a game that does better when there is space -- and that's an even bigger issue with Kawhi also having that game. I agree the Spurs would do well to have someone who can roll, but they don't need to have a seven-footer starting next to LMA to have that. Blair was a terrific PnR partner for Manu on the bench. It's really the second unit that needs that inside presence. The first unit as a whole needs a guy who can defend the PnR and space the floor, even if I were to concede that LMA would do better with a Lopez type.

[dabom]

Only person in ST that thinks LMA is a center. :lmao

[dabom]

Even LMA know's he's not a center when he tried to play with Tyson Chandler. :lmao

[Chinook]

Depends on what version of Duncan. Prime Duncan could play both PF/C positions at elite level with no problem. He could be paired with Nazr or Horry, with Robinson or Rose.

Other than the game of a natural Center, Duncan had an outside shot, he was mobile enough to play help defense and he could guard most PFs/Cs in the league. He could do it all. Not everyone can do that. See what happened with the 76ers when they tried to play Noel as a 4. It was terrible simply because he can't play both PF/C positions. Not many players in the league can.

Aldridge is not a great rebounder, can't anchor a defense, not a great shot-blocker and offensively plays outside for the most part. That's not a C in any level. Why is he C? The only C thing he's got is size.

I don't think there's much doubt that old Duncan plays as a Center.

The key for Splitter in SA was mobility. He couldn't shoot, but he was good guarding mobile BIGs (mostly PFs) while Duncan no longer could. Yeah, you could say that Timmy played some 4 offensively with him, but not defensively. Duncan wouldn't be paired with Gobert because both lack mobility. A stretch BIG would murder them.

And quite honestly, if SA had nailed Gobert back in 2013, I don't even think that Baynes would have stayed longer than 1 season. Boris would probably have logged a lot of minutes with Gobert.

I don't see a defensive anchor out there. Maybe Noel in 2017 or Ibaka if you consider him that. But a number of teams lack bigs who can control the paint. That simply can't be a paradigm anymore.

I think that's really the nature of my disagreement here. I think your view is a little antiquated, to channel my inner Harlem. Prime Duncan's game is a center's game now. He never really had a consistent PF outside shot. His mobility was really good for a big back then but it wasn't good enough to guard the combo-forwards of today. He and Splitter struggled offensively, and that was before Kawhi became a post-up guy. No way that works in today's league. And it probably wouldn't even be considered in 2020's league. That Splitter's mobility made it partially work was a miracle that will almost certainly not be repeated in free agency.

To your last comment, Diaw doesn't count anymore than Boban does this year. The point was that Tim would play the four if he had to just as much as he's playing the five now. It's not about LMA being forced into playing the five. He is having his best games there.

[wildbill2u]

Whether he's playing center or PF, the question is how well will he play defense. He has some ability to play good D, but all to often I see him looking a little disinterested in D or just losing his man on PNRs or failing to give help. Seems like some games or quarters he just goes through the motions on defense.

[elemento]

Where is this notion that LMA is a shitty rim protector coming from? I'd say he's at least average in that aspect. He rated out as an elite rim protector last year, but I haven't checked the numbers this year. Watching him this year he seems decent enough, certainly not so bad that you dread having him play center or anything like that.

He's nothing special rebounding-wise for a center, but depending on who you get at PF + having Kawhi at SF, I don't really think that's a deal breaker.

As for his back-to-the-basket game, he's in the top 20% in terms of post-up efficiency :lol Not sure how much better you want him to be.

I'm not saying he should play 100% of his minutes at center, but I really don't see why it's such a crazy idea to have him start at center and play a good amount of his minutes there (again, as I said in my original post, assuming he himself is fine with doing so).

That's the thing. We could discuss if Pop ends up using Aldridge as a Center in the future depending on the options after Duncan's retirement. OK it could happen I agree, even though I'd rather have a traditional rim protector. Aldridge is skilled offensively and believe in his post skills. Maybe he improves his rebounding and his shot-blocking skills.

But saying that Aldridge is a traditional Center that can play PF is something that I can't dig. I agree with Chinook on several things, but not this one. Aldridge was never a traditional Center. He may become one in the future for the Spurs, but it's probably going to be because of the lack of decent options, not because he is a true C.

[elemento]

I don't see a defensive anchor out there. Maybe Noel in 2017 or Ibaka if you consider him that. But a number of teams lack bigs who can control the paint. That simply can't be a paradigm anymore.

I think that's really the nature of my disagreement here. I think your view is a little antiquated, to channel my inner Harlem. Prime Duncan's game is a center's game now. He never really had a consistent PF outside shot. His mobility was really good for a big back then but it wasn't good enough to guard the combo-forwards of today. He and Splitter struggled offensively, and that was before Kawhi became a post-up guy. No way that works in today's league. And it probably wouldn't even be considered in 2020's league. That Splitter's mobility made it partially work was a miracle that will almost certainly not be repeated in free agency.

To your last comment, Diaw doesn't count anymore than Boban does this year. The point was that Tim would play the four if he had to just as much as he's playing the five now. It's not about LMA being forced into playing the five. He is having his best games there.

I don't have a problem with the notion that Aldridge may play as a C for us in the future. It could happen, especially in today's small-ball era.

I just don't agree that Aldridge is a traditional Center that can play PF as you said. He isn't. He isn't a tradicional Center in any era.

[Chinook]

I don't have a problem with the notion that Aldridge may play as a C for us in the future. It could happen, especially in today's small-ball era.

I just don't agree that Aldridge is a traditional Center that can play PF as you said. He isn't. He isn't a tradicional Center in any era.

I was talking physically. I think there are eras where he would gladly play the four and thank his lucky stars. But he's almost certainly going to play next to a smaller guy, and what's the point of having a smaller guy who doesn't have perimeter skills or shooting ability?

[SAGirl]

It's not about LMA being forced into playing the five. He is having his best games there.

This I have noticed too and I have given it some thought but I have not yet figured out why that is. Obviously Tim is slowed and his presence really slows the SL down. They are not slow bc they want to be slow, Pop actually wants them to rush it down court at times. Danny will take the occasional transition 3, and both Kawhi and Tony push the tempo off the dribble when the opportunity presents itself... even LMA runs the floor and seals men in the paint early or even gets the occasional transition O put back or dunk assisted from someone. The point is the SL really tries to push the tempo at times, they are just not that capable... and Timmy and LMA do compete for the left block as well as touches up top... when any other big, any other, I will give you Butler who just spots up, Anderson who is constantly cutting off the ball to try to keep his defender occupied as they help off him (that problem would be much worse with LJC who is a less skilled player, and less of a threat to shoot, something to consider), West who is just a deadly shooter and a terrific, surprisingly unselfish passer, or Diaw who is a creative post up player and passer... any of them plays with LMA he's gone on the attack more often, and ends up with more shots or better quality shots. Timmy roaming the paint while he's declined offensively so steeply lately is a bit of a problem.

I think ultimately offensively, the bigger problem is not LMA at all, it's just that Timmy has declined. He's lately been terribly inefficient. Timmy last few games has gone:

1-5 (PHX)-- owned by Alex Len
4-9 LAL --some against Hibbert, but also some Randle and Bass in there.
1-6 LAC
2-9 ORL was coming back from injury.
1-5 LAL (after this is when he got on the injured list)
0-4 DAL
4-10 CLE

This is problematic for a man who lives in the paint.

Timmy's last good offensive game was against DET on 1/12. He shot 5-8.

It's not that we need his scoring... but if he's going to clog the paint, he's got to be more efficient than he's recently been playing bc he's getting shots off others' actions. It seems clear to me he hasn't been right.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Looking forward to the Spurs signing a 6'6 guy, listing him as a center next to Aldridge and people claiming victory on this Aldridge's not a center debate :lol

Seriously, post Duncan the Spurs will go for the best available big they can get and play him next to Aldridge, then work around the fit offensively and defensively. Doesn't matter who's listed as a PF and who's a C - offensively, unless there are rule changes, that other guy should be able to shoot some, and defensively that other guy should be mobile enough. Ideally, that is. Not sure how people expect the Spurs to get a traditional C, put him close to the rim defensively and expect a 33 year old Aldridge to chase the Draymond Greens around the perimeter.

[dabom]

Shitty takes by shitty posters. *yawn

[sasaint]

Looking forward to the Spurs signing a 6'6 guy, listing him as a center next to Aldridge and people claiming victory on this Aldridge's not a center debate :lol

Seriously, post Duncan the Spurs will go for the best available big they can get and play him next to Aldridge, then work around the fit offensively and defensively. Doesn't matter who's listed as a PF and who's a C - offensively, unless there are rule changes, that other guy should be able to shoot some, and defensively that other guy should be mobile enough. Ideally, that is. Not sure how people expect the Spurs to get a traditional C, put him close to the rim defensively and expect a 33 year old Aldridge to chase the Draymond Greens around the perimeter.

The Voice of Reason. Thank you.

[pgardn]

Looking forward to the Spurs signing a 6'6 guy, listing him as a center next to Aldridge and people claiming victory on this Aldridge's not a center debate :lol

Seriously, post Duncan the Spurs will go for the best available big they can get and play him next to Aldridge, then work around the fit offensively and defensively. Doesn't matter who's listed as a PF and who's a C - offensively, unless there are rule changes, that other guy should be able to shoot some, and defensively that other guy should be mobile enough. Ideally, that is. Not sure how people expect the Spurs to get a traditional C, put him close to the rim defensively and expect a 33 year old Aldridge to chase the Draymond Greens around the perimeter.

When people try and put strict definitions on positions its trouble. There have been plenty of times within individual games and sequences when Manu is the traditional PG and Tony the SG. Assigning positions and and associated attributes has changed drastically. I guess the football mentality where offensive lineman clearly play under a different set of rules is used in a sport that is much more fluid. This is the only major team game I know of where all "positions" play under the same set of written rules at all times. I wonder if this ever brought up.

[pgardn]

Shitty takes by shitty posters. *yawn

Shit judging "shit" takes?

I don't think so.

[pgardn]

Dp

[Chinook]

Looking forward to the Spurs signing a 6'6 guy, listing him as a center next to Aldridge and people claiming victory on this Aldridge's not a center debate :lol

Seriously, post Duncan the Spurs will go for the best available big they can get and play him next to Aldridge, then work around the fit offensively and defensively. Doesn't matter who's listed as a PF and who's a C - offensively, unless there are rule changes, that other guy should be able to shoot some, and defensively that other guy should be mobile enough. Ideally, that is. Not sure how people expect the Spurs to get a traditional C, put him close to the rim defensively and expect a 33 year old Aldridge to chase the Draymond Greens around the perimeter.

Been saying this the whole time. If the Spurs get Gasol, LMA is a PF. But if the Spurs decide to play West next to him, then he's a C. If Tim and Manu leave, next season is going to be a transition year. You get the best player(s) you can with the cap space and then you start working on the next iteration of the "system".

[TD 21]

They were better than regular-season Horry and make-Blair-seem-like-a-legit-big Rose. They weren't Splitter's caliber, but they were the best bigs the team could get. And Oberto is smaller than Tim was and LMA is. So I don't think he's a good example of playing Tim next to a true center. If you just mean a guy who has to play at the rim, Blair counts.



The Spurs were third and eighth in the league the two years Bonner and McDyess started full time. Blair was a dumpster fire there for sure, and Diaw is only situational, but the defense falling off wasn't merely the result of using Tim as the primary center. The Spurs attacked their defensive issue both by starting Splitter and moving Green and Kawhi into bigger roles. That's not because they simply needed a center next to Tim (in your mind they don't have one now, and they're the best defense in the league). It's because they got really good defender to replace completely awful guys like Blair, Neal and Mason Jr.



Yeah, Tim would be a top-10 center of all time. That's better than any center currently playing. LMA doesn't have to be Tim.



This is awful similar to the Turner/Young debate we have a long time ago where you kept arguing that Turner was a natural two and Young was a natural four without any real elaboration. Horford and Bosh have been fives for years and do just fine there. Bosh in particular excels in an environment where he doesn't have a guy clogging the paint. The transition was a little rough, but he's caught up defensively, and if he can resume his career, he'll probably be a center full time again next season. Horford has been a five his whole career, and the Hawks haven't seemed remotely interested in changing that, hence why they signed Millsap and gave guys like Mike Scott long-term deals. You can site the Splitter trade all you want, but they got him for free, so I don't think the plan was ever to make him the starting five at the expense of Millsap.

Davis is a tweener in the worst way possible. He is a guy who really needs to be the five on offense but can't consistently play the five on defense. The only guys who really fit that mold are true stretch-fives, and as we have discussed, those are really rare. Ibaka is a four, and he only deviates from that in small-ball. You may as well have added Draymond as a 4.5.

LMA is more of a physical center than any of those guys, and he has a game that does better when there is space -- and that's an even bigger issue with Kawhi also having that game. I agree the Spurs would do well to have someone who can roll, but they don't need to have a seven-footer starting next to LMA to have that. Blair was a terrific PnR partner for Manu on the bench. It's really the second unit that needs that inside presence. The first unit as a whole needs a guy who can defend the PnR and space the floor, even if I were to concede that LMA would do better with a Lopez type.

That doesn't make them "really good players". They might have been the best the team could get, in terms of caliber, but they clearly targeted centers; it didn't just happen by accident. Oberto was undersized, but his game was clearly that of a center's.

Again, you're acting like Aldridge can do what Duncan does, just because of a similar physique. It doesn't work that way. You can have all the mobility, quickness and switch ability you want; if you can't protect the rim/defensive rebound, then it's all for naught, as evidenced by the games Duncan missed.

No, I argued Young was a natural three and he is. The only difference between him and guys like Gallinari, J. Green, Gay, etc., is three-point shooting. Horford has been a center because fellow top 2-3 players on their team were power forwards, who couldn't play center. In Bosh's case, they couldn't even find a second legit starting big at either position, until a year ago. Now, he's back to playing more power forward. By your logic, Duncan is a power forward, because he mostly started next to true centers.

Everyone does better offensively when there's more space. That doesn't mean you start lineups that can't protect the rim/defensive rebound at the expense of it. You make it sound like Aldridge is Splitter, when it comes to shooting. There's roughly a half dozen players in the entire league capable of protecting the rim and spacing the floor and the Spurs aren't getting one of them, so excluding that pipe dream, they need a legit center next to Aldridge. They'll be games where said center barely plays, but the roster still needs to be built in such a way that they, like most teams still do, start that way and then adjust accordingly based on the match-up.

[dabom]

TD21 cooking here. :wow

[tonight...you]

That doesn't make them "really good players". They might have been the best the team could get, in terms of caliber, but they clearly targeted centers; it didn't just happen by accident. Oberto was undersized, but his game was clearly that of a center's.

Again, you're acting like Aldridge can do what Duncan does, just because of a similar physique. It doesn't work that way. You can have all the mobility, quickness and switch ability you want; if you can't protect the rim/defensive rebound, then it's all for naught, as evidenced by the games Duncan missed.

No, I argued Young was a natural three and he is. The only difference between him and guys like Gallinari, J. Green, Gay, etc., is three-point shooting. Horford has been a center because fellow top 2-3 players on their team were power forwards, who couldn't play center. In Bosh's case, they couldn't even find a second legit starting big at either position, until a year ago. Now, he's back to playing more power forward. By your logic, Duncan is a power forward, because he mostly started next to true centers.

Everyone does better offensively when there's more space. That doesn't mean you start lineups that can't protect the rim/defensive rebound at the expense of it. You make it sound like Aldridge is Splitter, when it comes to shooting. There's roughly a half dozen players in the entire league capable of protecting the rim and spacing the floor and the Spurs aren't getting one of them, so excluding that pipe dream, they need a legit center next to Aldridge. They'll be games where said center barely plays, but the roster still needs to be built in such a way that they, like most teams still do, start that way and then adjust accordingly based on the match-up.

Great stuff. Throughout this whole thread. And I'm not even denigrating Chinook, who has had some good points also, but damn. This has been an informative and pleasant read.

[tonight...you]

TD21 cooking here. :wow
Like an Iron Chef.
Just give this man an ingredient...

[dabom]

Like an Iron Chef.
Just give this man an ingredient...

:lol

[Chinook]

That doesn't make them "really good players". They might have been the best the team could get, in terms of caliber, but they clearly targeted centers; it didn't just happen by accident. Oberto was undersized, but his game was clearly that of a center's.

You have to make up your mind on what it means to be a "true center". Oberto didn't protect the rim at all (like 75 blocks his whole career while LMA has 59 this season), and LMA is a better rebounder on the defensive end (5.8 drp36 while in SA compared to LMA's 7.0 drp36). In no way is Lamarcus less of a five than Fabre was.


Again, you're acting like Aldridge can do what Duncan does, just because of a similar physique. It doesn't work that way. You can have all the mobility, quickness and switch ability you want; if you can't protect the rim/defensive rebound, then it's all for naught, as evidenced by the games Duncan missed.

Again, he doesn't have to be Tim. The Spurs will not recreate their past roster with new players. They'll have a completely different paradigm. Also there are PFs who are really good rebounders, Sullinger being one of them.


Horford has been a center because fellow top 2-3 players on their team were power forwards, who couldn't play center.

The team purposefully signed power-forwards because Horford is a center. They didn't do like you're suggesting and start guys like Antic or Tavares just so Al could play his "natural position."


In Bosh's case, they couldn't even find a second legit starting big at either position, until a year ago. Now, he's back to playing more power forward.

They didn't want a big next to Bosh, hence why they had Battier and Lewis start. They needed the spacing for James. Now that those are Bosh's touches, they are back to being able to play a center next to him. The Spurs are much closer to the former era than the latter in terms of personnel.


Everyone does better offensively when there's more space. That doesn't mean you start lineups that can't protect the rim/defensive rebound at the expense of it. You make it sound like Aldridge is Splitter, when it comes to shooting. There's roughly a half dozen players in the entire league capable of protecting the rim and spacing the floor and the Spurs aren't getting one of them, so excluding that pipe dream, they need a legit center next to Aldridge. They'll be games where said center barely plays, but the roster still needs to be built in such a way that they, like most teams still do, start that way and then adjust accordingly based on the match-up.

Elbow jumpers and PnPs are no longer adequate spacing. Most teams employ a big who can shoot threes now. LMA is much closer to being the other big than he is to being the stretch-four.

[dabom]

Your credibility is lost when you call LMA a center. :lmao

[TD 21]

Great stuff. Throughout this whole thread. And I'm not even denigrating Chinook, who has had some good points also, but damn. This has been an informative and pleasant read.

:toast



You have to make up your mind on what it means to be a "true center". Oberto didn't protect the rim at all (like 75 blocks his whole career while LMA has 59 this season), and LMA is a better rebounder on the defensive end (5.8 drp36 while in SA compared to LMA's 7.0 drp36). In no way is Lamarcus less of a five than Fabre was.


Again, he doesn't have to be Tim. The Spurs will not recreate their past roster with new players. They'll have a completely different paradigm. Also there are PFs who are really good rebounders, Sullinger being one of them.



The team purposefully signed power-forwards because Horford is a center. They didn't do like you're suggesting and start guys like Antic or Tavares just so Al could play his "natural position."



They didn't want a big next to Bosh, hence why they had Battier and Lewis start. They needed the spacing for James. Now that those are Bosh's touches, they are back to being able to play a center next to him. The Spurs are much closer to the former era than the latter in terms of personnel.



Elbow jumpers and PnPs are no longer adequate spacing. Most teams employ a big who can shoot threes now. LMA is much closer to being the other big than he is to being the stretch-four.

Oberto was/is 6-10 and couldn't shoot, therefore he was a center, on offense, by default.

They and everyone else still need someone who does what Duncan does. They're not getting one of the half dozen floor spacing/rim protecting power forwards. If they were, this whole thing would be moot.

Guys like Antic and Tavares are fringe players; of course they're not going to start over Smith and now Millsap. Again, by this logic, Duncan is a power forward.

True, from the '12 series against the Pacers on, they wanted to optimize the spacing around James, in part because Wade was not an ideal wing compliment. Still, there were searching for a center the entire era.

Like I said, Aldridge re-expanding his range will probably be a focus in the summer. We're talking about the first six minutes of each half and then it would depend on match-ups, who's playing well, etc. Beyond that, Diaw, Anderson and Bertans, will be play making/small ball/stretch power forward options. This is the best chance to remain elite on both sides of the ball.

[Chinook]

Oberto was/is 6-10 and couldn't shoot, therefore he was a center, on offense, by default.

And LMA is 6-11 and protected the rim and rebounded better. Sounds like a center by your standard, unless you're suggesting that LMA needs someone who can't shoot next to him.



They and everyone else still need someone who does what Duncan does. They're not getting one of the half dozen floor spacing/rim protecting power forwards. If they were, this whole thing would be moot

You make it sound like the great rim-protecting centers are flooding the market right now. They aren't any more available than the PFs you mentioned. The best defensive center possibly on the FA market is Amir Johnson, who himself is more of a shooter than a "traditional center". If you're talking about trades, Jerami Grant is probably available for cheap, and he's a shot-blocking combo-forward who is getting a decent three going. Either of those guys is better than getting plodders just for the hell of it, or taking on Henson's deal.


Guys like Antic and Tavares are fringe players; of course they're not going to start over Smith and now Millsap. Again, by this logic, Duncan is a power forward.

The Hawks don't think they're playing Horford out of position; that's the point. They aren't concerned with getting a different five. That's why they signed the guys they did. The Spurs just wanted to get the best bigs next to Duncan as they could, which is why they were keen to change so often. In back-to-back years they used their MLEs on bigs, one being a PF and the other being a center. Both guys were expected to start next to Tim. That's as clear of a precedent as any that the Spurs will focus on getting talent over perceived fit.


True, from the '12 series against the Pacers on, they wanted to optimize the spacing around James, in part because Wade was not an ideal wing compliment. Still, there were searching for a center the entire era.

They were searching for a back-up center who could defend and slide into big-ball lineups. Pretty much the inverse of the minutes you were suggesting. What they wanted was a combo-forward in a good way, a guy who could space the floor on offense and defend fours on defense. The closest they got to that was Battier.

The Spurs have to maximize the spacing around Kawhi and LMA. Green and LMA's mid-range shots are just not enough.


Like I said, Aldridge re-expanding his range will probably be a focus in the summer. We're talking about the first six minutes of each half and then it would depend on match-ups, who's playing well, etc. Beyond that, Diaw, Anderson and Bertans, will be play making/small ball/stretch power forward options. This is the best chance to remain elite on both sides of the ball.

The issue with the concept of spacing that I think most people overlook is that spacers aren't supposed to be big scorers. When Green shoots 2-5, 3-6, 1-2, 3-5, he's doing what he's supposed to do. You want guys who teams have to guard or else they give up efficient looks. That's the reason why guys like Bosh and Love are marginalized when playing next to Lebron. You can't be a star stretch-big. LMA being able to shoot a three is fine, but making that anything other than a rare part of his shot-selection will make him a less effective scorer. You don't want him spacing the floor for a worse big, and especially not for an Oberto type.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Per NBA.com 5-man lineups :

Aldridge,LaMarcus - Duncan,Tim - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 102.6 DefRtg: 96.9 NetRtg: 5.7
Aldridge,LaMarcus - West,David - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 106.3 DefRtg: 96.3 NetRtg: 10.0
Aldridge,LaMarcus - Diaw,Boris - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 117.5 DefRtg: 98.3 NetRtg: 19.2

This current iteration of the Spurs play better with a non-traditional center next to Aldridge. Otherwise called a PF.

[pgardn]

Your credibility is lost when you call LMA a center. :lmao

He may be a true center in a game that is shifting towards guard play and 3s.

[cutewizard]

Spurs fans are the best in the world

so intelligent..............

[cutewizard]

In Pop (and Buford) we shall trust

they shall discover someone truly interesting

someone revolutionary to the game

the true counterpoint to Curry

THIS IS PROPHESY!

[palangi]

And LMA is 6-11 and protected the rim and rebounded better. Sounds like a center by your standard, unless you're suggesting that LMA needs someone who can't shoot next to him.




You make it sound like the great rim-protecting centers are flooding the market right now. They aren't any more available than the PFs you mentioned. The best defensive center possibly on the FA market is Amir Johnson, who himself is more of a shooter than a "traditional center". If you're talking about trades, Jerami Grant is probably available for cheap, and he's a shot-blocking combo-forward who is getting a decent three going. Either of those guys is better than getting plodders just for the hell of it, or taking on Henson's deal.



The Hawks don't think they're playing Horford out of position; that's the point. They aren't concerned with getting a different five. That's why they signed the guys they did. The Spurs just wanted to get the best bigs next to Duncan as they could, which is why they were keen to change so often. In back-to-back years they used their MLEs on bigs, one being a PF and the other being a center. Both guys were expected to start next to Tim. That's as clear of a precedent as any that the Spurs will focus on getting talent over perceived fit.



They were searching for a back-up center who could defend and slide into big-ball lineups. Pretty much the inverse of the minutes you were suggesting. What they wanted was a combo-forward in a good way, a guy who could space the floor on offense and defend fours on defense. The closest they got to that was Battier.

The Spurs have to maximize the spacing around Kawhi and LMA. Green and LMA's mid-range shots are just not enough.



The issue with the concept of spacing that I think most people overlook is that spacers aren't supposed to be big scorers. When Green shoots 2-5, 3-6, 1-2, 3-5, he's doing what he's supposed to do. You want guys who teams have to guard or else they give up efficient looks. That's the reason why guys like Bosh and Love are marginalized when playing next to Lebron. You can't be a star stretch-big. LMA being able to shoot a three is fine, but making that anything other than a rare part of his shot-selection will make him a less effective scorer. You don't want him spacing the floor for a worse big, and especially not for an Oberto type.
Then why did the Hawks trade for Splitter? If he doesn't get hurt then Horford is playing more 4.

[Chinook]

Then why did the Hawks trade for Splitter? If he doesn't get hurt then Horford is playing more 4.

Playing more four and starting at the four are two different things. We all agree that LMA will play some four and some five next year. We are just debating which one he will/should play more.

But Atlanta trading for Splitter is a strange example. They needed a third big (as they were riding with guys like Antic and Scott and Muscala. So getting a defensive center for free isn't really a bad thing. Doesn't suggest they were getting him to be their starter.

[DrSteffo]

Oberto was not a C and LMA is more of a C? That's just not true.

[Chinook]

Oberto was not a C and LMA is more of a C? That's just not true.

The point is that trying to put LMA into a strict box isn't going to work. If Oberto was a C because of his rebounding and rim-protection, then LMA is more of a C, because he does both of those things better and is bigger. If Fabre was a center because he couldn't shoot, then I don't see why it's virtuous to get a center next to LMA. It doesn't make sense to pass up guys like Jones or Sullinger because you think LMA needs a true center next to him regardless of the rarity of guys who fit that polyphyletic definition while also being good players.

[DrSteffo]

Not agreeing at all about LMA being better at those things than Oberto. Oberto was a true C. Great at setting picks.

[cd021]

I think Duncan returns but if he doesn't i would like Hibbert if we could get him at around $10,000,000 on a 2 year deal. He can still protect the basket and his stock is rather low right now. He wouldn't nee to play a big role, something like 25 mpg.


Parker-Mills-McCullum
Green-Ginobili-Simmons
Leonard-Anderson-Bertans
Aldride-Diaw-West
Hibbert-Marjanovic

[Kawhitstorm]

Looking forward to the Spurs signing a 6'6 guy, listing him as a center next to Aldridge and people claiming victory on this Aldridge's not a center debate :lol

Seriously, post Duncan the Spurs will go for the best available big they can get and play him next to Aldridge, then work around the fit offensively and defensively. Doesn't matter who's listed as a PF and who's a C - offensively, unless there are rule changes, that other guy should be able to shoot some, and defensively that other guy should be mobile enough. Ideally, that is. Not sure how people expect the Spurs to get a traditional C, put him close to the rim defensively and expect a 33 year old Aldridge to chase the Draymond Greens around the perimeter.

Last I checked, it wasn't Draymond that destroyed the Spurs (they didn't even run much of the Draymond/Curry PnR) but rather Curry eviscerating Porker & the Spurs lack of rim protectors. Pop can just start West rather than signing another PF who won't be able to do a thing against Curry b/c PFs can't stick with him.:lol

The only way to beat the Worriers is to go at Curry on the other end just like Chris Paul & either get him in foul trouble or use up energy rather than hide on a spot up shooter like Danny or washed up Porker.:lol PATFO should be investing on a guy like Fournier & draft GPII then roll out the GPII/Fournier/Kawhi lineup & force Curry to play D while having GPII full court press Curry like Avery Bradley did eariler this season.

Porker/Danny play well together so bring them off the bench & have Danny guard Iggy while Porker plays the Manu role. Hopefully, Fathead will be able to defend Livingston.

As far as rim protection:
-It would be nice to have someone like Ian but he's playing well in a contract year
-Pau/LMA would be a disaster on defense & Pau disappears if the offense isn't running through him:lol
-Not sure Noah will sign for the MLE (assuming Fournier eats up the cap)
-Wouldn't touch Hibbert for anything more than the vet min to be the 5th big if someone steals Boban:lol
-So the most viable option is Mozgov if his stock plummets like 2014 Hibbert:lol

In any case, I highly doubt PATFO would pay Fournier more than 10 mill nor would Pop bench Porker.:lol (Although I'm hopefully they will draft GPII & recruit Noah)

[Chinook]

Not agreeing at all about LMA being better at those things than Oberto. Oberto was a true C. Great at setting picks.

It's pretty objective that the things TD21 listed when describing why LMA wasn't a true center are things that LMA does better than Oberto did. You can totally have different criteria from him -- and honestly I think you should -- but that's a different discussion.

[Chinook]

I think Duncan returns but if he doesn't i would like Hibbert if we could get him at around $10,000,000 on a 2 year deal. He can still protect the basket and his stock is rather low right now. He wouldn't nee to play a big role, something like 25 mpg.


Parker-Mills-McCullum
Green-Ginobili-Simmons
Leonard-Anderson-Bertans
Aldride-Diaw-West
Hibbert-Marjanovic

I don't want anyone on a two-year deal (except Boban if it's cheap and Bertans if it's necessary), honestly. The timing is just wrong. There are much better bigs available in 2017, and the Spurs shouldn't commit to Hibbert or anyone like him in lieu of exploring those options.

[cd021]

Per NBA.com 5-man lineups :

Aldridge,LaMarcus - Duncan,Tim - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 102.6 DefRtg: 96.9 NetRtg: 5.7
Aldridge,LaMarcus - West,David - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 106.3 DefRtg: 96.3 NetRtg: 10.0
Aldridge,LaMarcus - Diaw,Boris - Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony OffRtg : 117.5 DefRtg: 98.3 NetRtg: 19.2

This current iteration of the Spurs play better with a non-traditional center next to Aldridge. Otherwise called a PF.

That matches what I thought about Duncan and Aldrige playing together. They don't play as well together as West/Diaw and Aldridge do. With West and Diaw playing along side LMA, it allows for Aldridge to be posted by West and Diaw with more space to work with. The @ Miami game was a perfect example of that.

I think it has to do with the spacing. If this were the 11-12 Duncan, who was an excellent midrange shooter then they would be deadly together but at least in the games i've seen the spacing is closer to the Ducan Splitter pairing than I would have thought.

[DrSteffo]

It's pretty objective that the things TD21 listed when describing why LMA wasn't a true center are things that LMA does better than Oberto did. You can totally have different criteria from him -- and honestly I think you should -- but that's a different discussion.

Maybe, just maybe it's diferent to play with Duncan now? :) Of course any big paired with old Duncan will get better stats than a support big with prime Duncan. You are a good poster and I think you understand this.

[Chinook]

Maybe, just maybe it's diferent to play with Duncan now? :) Of course any big paired with old Duncan will get better stats than a support big with prime Duncan. You are a good poster and I thin you understand this.

That completely sells LMA short and overrates what Oberto was. Fabre averaged less that a quarter of a block a game. He wasn't a rim-protector. LMA outrebounded him on the defensive end by a wide margin. These are things that TD21 said LMA couldn't do because he wasn't a true center. My point isn't that Oberto wasn't a center, which you still seem to believe. It's that the idea that LMA isn't a long-term candidate at the five based on his abilities is wrong.

And LMA next to Prime Duncan still gets his points. No way the Spurs pass up having two great offensive bigs who can guard either position. It may have meant bye-bye to Parker and Manu, but Aldridge would have even better numbers if he were part of a Prime Twin Towers.

[cd021]

I don't want anyone on a two-year deal (except Boban if it's cheap and Bertans if it's necessary), honestly. The timing is just wrong. There are much better bigs available in 2017, and the Spurs shouldn't commit to Hibbert or anyone like him in lieu of exploring those options.

I agree with the timing. The Spurs won't have the necessary cap unless both Duncan and Manu retires or Duncan retires and they cut Diaw loose. I do think that this is a solid big man FA summer but I'd be just a fine with rolling with the same bigs as this season minus Duncan. League is increasingly going smaller and smaller, spacing and versatility is more valuable than just having size.

In that scenario Anderson could see some time at PF, giving the spurs five bigs. Spurs could go with a West/ LMA pairing with Anderson, Diaw and Boban making up the bench units front court.

[DrSteffo]

And LMA next to Prime Duncan still gets his points. No way the Spurs pass up having two great offensive bigs who can guard either position. It may have meant bye-bye to Parker and Manu, but Aldridge would have even better numbers if he were part of a Prime Twin Towers.

No way. With Duncan in his prime LMA would certainly not get his points and he is certainly not a 5. He can work as a 4/5 big in the Spurs system though but I would certainy look for a 5 rather than a 4 going forward.

[Chinook]

No way. With Duncan in his prime LMA would certainly not get his points and he is certainly not a 5. He can work as a 4/5 big in the Spurs system though but I would certainy look for a 5 rather than a 4 going forward.

The Spurs' system isn't the thing that makes him a five. If anything, it's what's keeping him as a four. Jackson wanted him to play the five in the Triangle; he was going to be a five in Dallas and LA. About half the teams wanted him as a five, about about half were willing to let him play the four. Only certain systems allow him to be a four, as the league-wide trend is for faster fours who can shoot.

And you make it sound like no one else scored when Tim was in his prime. He would have relished having a high-low partner he could switch with. Would LMA have gotten a lot of left-block touches with Tim on the floor? Doubtful, but he would have gotten all he could eat on the block when Tim sat (since the team was set up for that), and while playing with Tim, he'd a much better floor-spacer (at the time) than the guys Tim had trotted out with him. He could have gotten quite a few midrange shots.

Essentially, LMA would have been the clear second option and a better McDyess.

[DrSteffo]

I don't really understand all this tbh. LMA can shoot so it's better to get a rim protector. I'm a university professor and not stupid. I just learned to focus on the basics and avoid verbal masturbation.

[Chinook]

I don't really understand all this tbh. LMA can shoot so it's better to get a rim protector.

Gasol (both, actually) can shoot, too. They are still centers. Horford shoots, and he's a center. Towns shoots, and he's a center. Shooting is becoming a requirement for centers, especially out to midrange. Aldridge isn't shooting threes at a high volume, and he's definitely isn't hitting them at a high rate. So he's not really being the floor-spacer right now.


I'm a university professor and not stupid.

What does this have to do with anything? I've never questioned your intellect. And what you do for a living has no bearing on the merit of your points. Just completely random.


I just learned to focus on the basics and avoid verbal masturbation.

You can do that all you want. And I'll do what I want. If you don't like that, you don't have to keep the conversation going. I do feel like you just picking random sentences to respond to and missing some of the context, though.

[K...]

I don't know why people aren't understanding that you don't need classic pf and c in today's league. It's more like a menu based approach.

Someone brought up screens and oberto...that's good. We could use a good screen set guy, and a good stretch 4, and a shot blocker, and a first option on offense, and able to defend guards.

You can't get those things in one player. So look at what lma is good at get someone to compliment him.


Lma is nice because he's competent on both sides of the ball. That's why he gets the max. We can't pay max this year. So we are literally looking for best skills on cheap. We're gonna have to accept some mediocrity.

Lma is a center in a small ball lineup. He's the pf in a twin towers. Guess which style is currently in league fashion? There is your answer.

[dabom]

lma is not a center u stupid fuck :lmao

[dabom]

''hey lma, some guy on Spurstalk is calling u a traditional center'' -dabom
http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/nick-young-confused-face.jpg - LMA :lmao

[Chinook]

I don't know why people aren't understanding that you don't need classic pf and c in today's league. It's more like a menu based approach.

Someone brought up screens and oberto...that's good. We could use a good screen set guy, and a good stretch 4, and a shot blocker, and a first option on offense, and able to defend guards.

You can't get those things in one player. So look at what lma is good at get someone to compliment him.

Exactly, and you can't measure by comparing them to Duncan. That's just asking to be disappointed. Only thing I'd add is that the Spurs have to use a big that works with the rest of the SL too, not just LMA. Kawhi posting up and Parker getting older shifts the needs away from a post presence and toward a stretch-big. It's awesome if you have a big-bodied PF who can set screens and shoot threes while being a good rebounding like Sullinger. But even if you don't get the stocky build and instead go for an Amir Johnson type who can shoot and finish and defend while not being much of a screener, it's good. But shooting is much more important than most of the other things.

[Kawhitstorm]

Exactly, and you can't measure by comparing them to Duncan. That's just asking to be disappointed. Only thing I'd add is that the Spurs have to use a big that works with the rest of the SL too, not just LMA. Kawhi posting up and Parker getting older shifts the needs away from a post presence and toward a stretch-big. It's awesome if you have a big-bodied PF who can set screens and shoot threes while being a good rebounding like Sullinger. But even if you don't get the stocky build and instead go for an Amir Johnson type who can shoot and finish and defend while not being much of a screener, it's good. But shooting is much more important than most of the other things.

A guy who kind of fits the bill is Meyers Leonard who seems to be the odd man out in Portland & didn't get an extension. He already has experience playing alongside LMA & played well against Gasol in the playoffs. Another RFA who also fits the bill is D-Mo but his back issues might have ended his career.

If PATFO are on the market for a stretch 4/5, Leonard is the best option but the Blazers would probably match a reasonable offer since they have a lot of cap space. So, most likely Jon Leuer is going to end up being the best stretch 4 that can be had for a bargain price like Rasual.

http://www.nba.com/suns/suns-found-hidden-gem-jon-leuer

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AWS95U8NSAERLT9e9cqL9tP-eac=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6041791/Screen_Shot_2016-02-15_at_6.45.10_AM.0.png
(http://www.nba.com/suns/suns-found-hidden-gem-jon-leuer)

[sasaint]

A guy who kind of fits the bill is Meyers Leonard who seems to be the odd man out in Portland & didn't get an extension. He already has experience playing alongside LMA & played well against Gasol in the playoffs. Another RFA who also fits the bill is D-Mo but his back issues might have ended his career.

If PATFO are on the market for a stretch 4/5, Leonard is the best option but the Blazers would probably match a reasonable offer since they have a lot of cap space. So, most likely Jon Leuer is going to end up being the best stretch 4 that can be had for a bargain price like Rasual.

http://www.nba.com/suns/suns-found-hidden-gem-jon-leuer

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AWS95U8NSAERLT9e9cqL9tP-eac=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6041791/Screen_Shot_2016-02-15_at_6.45.10_AM.0.png
(http://www.nba.com/suns/suns-found-hidden-gem-jon-leuer)

We need to do whatever we can to get MLeonard. I want us to go after his teammate, Crabbe, too. With Lillard and McCollom on the Blazers, Crabbe would probably be very interested in a new team. And Portland might not want to pay him as much as somebody else.

[TD 21]

And LMA is 6-11 and protected the rim and rebounded better. Sounds like a center by your standard, unless you're suggesting that LMA needs someone who can't shoot next to him.




You make it sound like the great rim-protecting centers are flooding the market right now. They aren't any more available than the PFs you mentioned. The best defensive center possibly on the FA market is Amir Johnson, who himself is more of a shooter than a "traditional center". If you're talking about trades, Jerami Grant is probably available for cheap, and he's a shot-blocking combo-forward who is getting a decent three going. Either of those guys is better than getting plodders just for the hell of it, or taking on Henson's deal.



The Hawks don't think they're playing Horford out of position; that's the point. They aren't concerned with getting a different five. That's why they signed the guys they did. The Spurs just wanted to get the best bigs next to Duncan as they could, which is why they were keen to change so often. In back-to-back years they used their MLEs on bigs, one being a PF and the other being a center. Both guys were expected to start next to Tim. That's as clear of a precedent as any that the Spurs will focus on getting talent over perceived fit.



They were searching for a back-up center who could defend and slide into big-ball lineups. Pretty much the inverse of the minutes you were suggesting. What they wanted was a combo-forward in a good way, a guy who could space the floor on offense and defend fours on defense. The closest they got to that was Battier.

The Spurs have to maximize the spacing around Kawhi and LMA. Green and LMA's mid-range shots are just not enough.



The issue with the concept of spacing that I think most people overlook is that spacers aren't supposed to be big scorers. When Green shoots 2-5, 3-6, 1-2, 3-5, he's doing what he's supposed to do. You want guys who teams have to guard or else they give up efficient looks. That's the reason why guys like Bosh and Love are marginalized when playing next to Lebron. You can't be a star stretch-big. LMA being able to shoot a three is fine, but making that anything other than a rare part of his shot-selection will make him a less effective scorer. You don't want him spacing the floor for a worse big, and especially not for an Oberto type.

The team's defensive rebounding and rim protection fell off with Aldridge starting at center. Of course, it would be ideal to have optimal spacing for 48 minutes, but few can, without sacrificing defensive rebounding/rim protection.

Both the Trail Blazers and Spurs have had elite offenses with Aldridge starting at power forward and in the former's case, he played it almost exclusively.

Hibbert, Aldrich and Plumlee, are all capable rim protectors. Johnson is obviously not in the same class as the other 4.5's I mentioned, but he's the only potentially realistic option and clearly preferable to those centers. Why would Grant be available for cheap?

You continue to ignore the fact that, by that logic, Duncan is a power forward. The fact that Duncan is a center, who chafed more at the designation than the actual job description (and obviously excelled at it; unlike Aldridge), made it easier to slot just about any type of big next to him.

Wrong. The first two years, the Heat were searching for a starting center.

Again, we're talking about essentially maintaining what they have now. The first six minutes of each half they'd start traditional, then after that, it would depend on match-ups, who's playing well, etc. Aldridge can function as a sometimes spacer for the minutes he plays next to a center and then become more post oriented when next to a perimeter oriented power forward.

[Kawhitstorm]

We need to do whatever we can to get MLeonard. I want us to go after his teammate, Crabbe, too. With Lillard and McCollom on the Blazers, Crabbe would probably be very interested in a new team. And Portland might not want to pay him as much as somebody else.

Crabbe would have been worth going after if Kyle wasn't on the roster but Portland will match a reasonable price since again they have a lot of cap space.

[sasaint]

Let's take inventory. I assume Tim will not be here next season. So, guys who play at the 4/5 already on the team or in the pipeline include:

1. LMA - returns @ $20.5MM
2. DWest - returns @ +/-$3MM
3. Diaw - ? $7.5MM
4. Boban - ? $3MM
5. Ndoye - ? $1.3MM
6. Cady Lalanne - Austin
7. LJC - France
8. Milutinov - Greece
9. Kyle (not a 4/5 but a 3/4) - $1.2MM
10. Bonner - retired

We could fill anywhere from 2-5 spots without resorting to a trade or free agency.

Minutes-wise, however, things get a little skewed. No doubt Pop ideally would like to keep LMA in the 28-30 min. range and DWest in the 18-20 min. range. Hopefully Kyle will develop into a rotation player in the 24-26 min range, but that must be regarded as a question mark, and not all of those minutes would be spent at the 4. So, we would need 26-30 mins from somebody. Perhaps a combination of Boban and Diaw could provide most of those minutes, but Boban's time is pretty matchup-dependent, and Diaw doesn't provide consistent motivated play. So where to find the needed minutes?

Imho, LJC is too raw and will not help us next season, if ever. Same with Milutinov, who isn't getting a lot of time with Olympiacos. Cady is also still a work in progress as a stretch 4. I don't see him helping either. Ndoye has made nice strides in Austin, and as Chinook has suggested, may be a great young guy to sign for a near-minimum and play him between Austin and SA like Kyle last season.

Also assuming Manu, Ray and Rasual do not return, we would have Tony, Patty, Danny, Simmons, Kyle and Kawhi - 6 spots of 9 currently dedicated to the 1, 2 and 3 positions. We would need to fill 6 or 7 total roster spots, and would have +/- $15MM to work with under the cap. That's not a lot of money to fill that many spots. Maybe we need to bring back Rasual, depending on how he finishes the season, and even re-think Ray. I personally have a hard time seeing us finding anybody decent at the 4/5 without replacing Diaw and his contract with a guy who can offer decent consistent minutes throughout the regular season and without also bringing in a development player such as Ndoye.

I am not a capologist, and this doesn't include things like the MLE. But maybe we could turn this thread into a less general discussion by also considering the economics of our roster construction. Life without Tim will be strange and difficult, and PATFO will need to make some tough decisions and hit some home runs.

[Chinook]

The team's defensive rebounding and rim protection fell off with Aldridge starting at center. Of course, it would be ideal to have optimal spacing for 48 minutes, but few can, without sacrificing defensive rebounding/rim protection.

They're totally defense seems to be sufficient without Tim and with West in the starting lineup. I know the narrative is that the defense fell off without Duncan, but people overlook that the pace increased without him as well, which contributed as much to their higher PPG allowed. And the team played two great offenses without Tim, and that obviously skews the stats even more. Obviously Tim is a great defender and important player, but the team got by without him.


Both the Trail Blazers and Spurs have had elite offenses with Aldridge starting at power forward and in the former's case, he played it almost exclusively.

The Spurs didn't have an elite starting unit offensively with Tim and LMA there together. They only really started making their way up the ladder when Tim was out and LMA got into a rhythm. He went for 22ppg on 58 percent shooting without Tim and has dropped to 14.7ppg in 44 percent shooting since Tim came back. It's shocking how much better Aldridge is as the starting center.


Hibbert, Aldrich and Plumlee, are all capable rim protectors. Johnson is obviously not in the same class as the other 4.5's I mentioned, but he's the only potentially realistic option and clearly preferable to those centers. Why would Grant be available for cheap?

Of the first three guys you listed, Hibbert is the only established starter. Cole is a low-minute guy who's foul-to-block ratio is horrible, and Plumlee can't even get a rotation spot recently. Truth be told, they aren't bad ideas for pickups. But no way do I consider them starters or think they make more sense to put next to LMA than a higher-end PF. Grant's about to be boxed out for minutes with Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Saric, Covington and almost certainly one of Simmons or Ingram in the front court. Philly wouldn't cut him or anything, but I do think the Spurs could get him for a pick.


You continue to ignore the fact that, by that logic, Duncan is a power forward. The fact that Duncan is a center, who chafed more at the designation than the actual job description (and obviously excelled at it; unlike Aldridge), made it easier to slot just about any type of big next to him.

I feel like you're getting it twisted. My point isn't that Horford is a center who can't be anything else. It's that he's managed to succeed as a center his whole career despite being a worse version of LMA. Sure, people have complained that he's a natural four, but that hasn't stopped the team from playing him at the five, Horford from excelling there, or the team being good despite the lack of a five next to him. In a similar way, the Spurs have tried to put the best big they could next to Duncan. It was a stiff back when they needed guys to guard Shaq, KG and the other elite bigs. It was a screener or popper when the Spurs moved to a PnR-centric offense. It was an agile big when Tim just couldn't take the pounding of being a defensive center for an extended period of time. Now, it's a big-bodied big who can shoot and roll now that the Spurs have the money to check off that many boxes. I don't think the team cared if he was a natural four or five outside of lineup designations. And I don't think they care about it in terms of LMA either.


Wrong. The first two years, the Heat were searching for a starting center.


Again, we're talking about essentially maintaining what they have now. The first six minutes of each half they'd start traditional, then after that, it would depend on match-ups, who's playing well, etc. Aldridge can function as a sometimes spacer for the minutes he plays next to a center and then become more post oriented when next to a perimeter oriented power forward.

This is really the key point. YOU'RE talking about maintaining the status quo. I'm not. I'm very much not. You don't get a scrub to be Duncan. You create a different paradigm where the five new guys can all play the best. Same thing is true with the bench next year if/when Manu leaves. You don't pretend like Anderson is Manu and leave it there. You're not going to be able to replicate that beautiful game play just by adding another passing wing. You do something else, and maybe some of the current guys there won't fit that new thing. The important thing is for the Spurs to get the best guy they can this summer and figure out how to make it all work after.

[Chinook]

We need to do whatever we can to get MLeonard. I want us to go after his teammate, Crabbe, too. With Lillard and McCollom on the Blazers, Crabbe would probably be very interested in a new team. And Portland might not want to pay him as much as somebody else.

Crabbe's their three of the future. They'll probably at least Batum him.

[TD 21]

They're totally defense seems to be sufficient without Tim and with West in the starting lineup. I know the narrative is that the defense fell off without Duncan, but people overlook that the pace increased without him as well, which contributed as much to their higher PPG allowed. And the team played two great offenses without Tim, and that obviously skews the stats even more. Obviously Tim is a great defender and important player, but the team got by without him.



The Spurs didn't have an elite starting unit offensively with Tim and LMA there together. They only really started making their way up the ladder when Tim was out and LMA got into a rhythm. He went for 22ppg on 58 percent shooting without Tim and has dropped to 14.7ppg in 44 percent shooting since Tim came back. It's shocking how much better Aldridge is as the starting center.



Of the first three guys you listed, Hibbert is the only established starter. Cole is a low-minute guy who's foul-to-block ratio is horrible, and Plumlee can't even get a rotation spot recently. Truth be told, they aren't bad ideas for pickups. But no way do I consider them starters or think they make more sense to put next to LMA than a higher-end PF. Grant's about to be boxed out for minutes with Noel, Embiid, Okafor, Saric, Covington and almost certainly one of Simmons or Ingram in the front court. Philly wouldn't cut him or anything, but I do think the Spurs could get him for a pick.



I feel like you're getting it twisted. My point isn't that Horford is a center who can't be anything else. It's that he's managed to succeed as a center his whole career despite being a worse version of LMA. Sure, people have complained that he's a natural four, but that hasn't stopped the team from playing him at the five, Horford from excelling there, or the team being good despite the lack of a five next to him. In a similar way, the Spurs have tried to put the best big they could next to Duncan. It was a stiff back when they needed guys to guard Shaq, KG and the other elite bigs. It was a screener or popper when the Spurs moved to a PnR-centric offense. It was an agile big when Tim just couldn't take the pounding of being a defensive center for an extended period of time. Now, it's a big-bodied big who can shoot and roll now that the Spurs have the money to check off that many boxes. I don't think the team cared if he was a natural four or five outside of lineup designations. And I don't think they care about it in terms of LMA either.





This is really the key point. YOU'RE talking about maintaining the status quo. I'm not. I'm very much not. You don't get a scrub to be Duncan. You create a different paradigm where the five new guys can all play the best. Same thing is true with the bench next year if/when Manu leaves. You don't pretend like Anderson is Manu and leave it there. You're not going to be able to replicate that beautiful game play just by adding another passing wing. You do something else, and maybe some of the current guys there won't fit that new thing. The important thing is for the Spurs to get the best guy they can this summer and figure out how to make it all work after.

That's not the narrative; it's a fact. I knew you'd come with those reasons/excuses, yet I suspect they'd have been left out, if it were Green or Splitter.

I know, but the offense overall has been elite. True, that that's due in large part to the bench, but the elite defensive is due in large part to the starters and as much as it pains you, Duncan is still a significant part of that. What's the excuse for the elite offense on the Trail Blazers?

I don't want those guys, I'm just saying, they're cost effective, 20 mpg options, who'd be potential fits. Obviously, if they could do better, of course they should.

I doubt they move Grant, just because of a potential minute crunch. More than likely, they move one of their centers.

Succeed, to what extent though? The Hawks have never been a legit contender. The only team that was, with the lineup you propose, had prime James. Outside of that, no elite team starts this way and few do period. The important thing is to be as complete and versatile as possible; not try to mimic what the perception of the Warriors is.

[dabom]

TD21 taking a wet shit on chinook per par. :lmao

[Robz4000]

Spurs are gonna get the best big they can to pair alongside LMA whether he's a PF or C and LMA will play the opposite big position. That's it and that's all.

[dabom]

Only person in ST that thinks LMA is a center. :lmao
Chinook

Thinking diaw or west can start as center for the Spurs. :lmao

[dabom]

@TD21 taking a wet shit on chinook per par. :lmao

[K...]

Chinook

Thinking diaw or west can start as center for the Spurs. :lmao

Daboqn: no nuance, no intelligence, no context. Lives for the chance that another man will notice him and give him attention.



Please tell me, what the issue here is.....are you advocating a certain style of big. ? "Not Chinook" is not an argument. Use words not emoticons

[dabom]

Daboqn: no nuance, no intelligence, no context. Lives for the chance that another man will notice him and give him attention.



Please tell me, what the issue here is.....are you advocating a certain style of big. ? "Not Chinook" is not an argument. Use words not emoticons

I'm advocating a center at the center spot and not a powerforward at the center spot. :lol

Is that so hard?....

[K...]

I'm advocating a center at the center spot and not a powerforward at the center spot. :lol

Is that so hard?....

No it isn't, but until we know Duncan retires it's not a clear picture, and as I said before best available talent is the way forward because there is no magic center prospect. If you insist on a shot blocker screener you might be missing out on talent. And this team is operating with a very thin margin. Flexibility is key. You'd agree you would rather see Aldridge at C than Parker start. That's the kind of settling this team might have to make. Just bout enough money to get everything.

[dabom]

You can argue and look like a dumbass. :lmao

[DMC]

Today centers are mostly for rebounding. There's not a lot of post moves being used to score and even so a couple threes in a row negates 3 good post moves. Get 4 3's and that's 6 decent post moves.

Instead of needing a big center, Spurs need two good rebounding bigs. This is what Tim provided. He hasn't been a post move guy for quite some time, at least not prolific. Spurs have relied on the outside shot and used the post game sparingly until recently.

The future of the NBA is 3pt shooting with cleanup beneath the basket, a couple long perimeter defenders who can get back in transition on both offense and defense and a point guard who's a threat to score from deep so you have to pick him up as he crosses the half court line. That spreads the defense, and it allows others to cut to the rim. Packing the paint with bigs to try to score is just going to bog down your offense and high scoring offenses will destroy you even if you're a good defensive team because you cannot stop great ball movement and outside shooting. We've seen this too often to think otherwise.

[Chinook]

Again, people are too obsessed with the starter. The Spurs will need a bona fide starting-caliber big. They don't need to worry about guys like Plumlee or Aldrich until they settle that out. Is it possible to get one of those guys to start while finding a better big to be the guy off the bench? Sure. But that's practically semantics. There's not way anyone can look at this depth chart:

PF: Aldridge, ?, ?
C: Plumlee, ?, ?

And think, "Sure, we can fill the rest of this rotation out with min guys, drafts picks and the room exception." Like how on Earth do people think that's going to work out better than it did this season?

[mudyez]

I'm curious, what timetable a retirement announcement would follow? Right after the finals?

I hope Tim comes back...hard to fear seeing a "good bye tim" headline right now.

Same goes for Manu.

[DMC]

Again, people are too obsessed with the starter. The Spurs will need a bona fide starting-caliber big. They don't need to worry about guys like Plumlee or Aldrich until they settle that out. Is it possible to get one of those guys to start while finding a better big to be the guy off the bench? Sure. But that's practically semantics. There's not way anyone can look at this depth chart:

PF: Aldridge, ?, ?
C: Plumlee, ?, ?

And think, "Sure, we can fill the rest of this rotation out with min guys, drafts picks and the room exception." Like how on Earth do people think that's going to work out better than it did this season?
It's all semantics. No one who matters gives a shit what we decide.

[DMC]

I'm curious, what timetable a retirement announcement would follow? Right after the finals?

I hope Tim comes back...hard to fear seeing a "good bye tim" headline right now.

Same goes for Manu.
I think they drag it out until just before training camp. The team will probably know but they won't release it. They need to sell season tickets.

[Chinook]

It's all semantics. No one who matters gives a shit what we decide.

While I agree with the second sentence, I don't think that makes this semantics.

[DMC]

While I agree with the second sentence, I don't think that makes this semantics.

Of course. Thus the second sentence.

[Kawhitstorm]

Again, people are too obsessed with the starter. The Spurs will need a bona fide starting-caliber big. They don't need to worry about guys like Plumlee or Aldrich until they settle that out. Is it possible to get one of those guys to start while finding a better big to be the guy off the bench? Sure. But that's practically semantics. There's not way anyone can look at this depth chart:

PF: Aldridge, ?, ?
C: Plumlee, ?, ?

And think, "Sure, we can fill the rest of this rotation out with min guys, drafts picks and the room exception." Like how on Earth do people think that's going to work out better than it did this season?

I advocated that PATFO go after Marvin Williams/Aldrich & finish games out w/ Softridge playing the center spot. In the age of small-ball, signing a mobile hybrid forward is more imperative than signing a starting quality center considering Kerr only plays Bogut 20 minutes & Marvin can guard Ibaka.

The solution to Kanter is PnR'ing him to death which would require acquiring a starting quality PG like Teague or a backup who can run PnRs like Darren Collison. At the end of the day, if Softridge doesn't grow a pair then it's all for naught.