A brief analysis of how to slow the game down against the warriors. Pace related...

[apalisoc_9]

I'm sure you have all heard of the saying "whoever dicates the pace, wins the game". This is obviously true in so many forms against the warriors but how exactly can the spurs manage to slow the game down? Here's a few randoms.

In defense

- Deny the Pass. One of the main reasons why the warriors have so many shots per game is that they take a lot of first option and second option shots. Thompson and Curry always take the first good shot they get, they're not passing that up.

- Pressure full court. The warriors set some of the most amazing sets in basketball. The execution is top notch. By applying pressure full court pressure, you shave off a few seconds in their shotclock to start a set. This is one of the main reasons why Pop heavily experimented with Simmons in their last game because he was the most willing to apply pressure full court.

In offense

- 4 people run backwards, Aldridge crash the board. Offensive boards are just as good as perimter transition defense in killing transition offense. GSW is a deadly transition team. If they're playing small, no reason not to go for the offensive boards by one or two of the bigs.

- Post up offense kills pace, but we already do that so props for pop for recognizing.

- Do not attack the PnR or Pop in their small ball lineup. Post up! If Varejao and Bogut isnt on the floor...post the fuck up.

[spurs10]

Really agree about posting them up. Trying to out run then is not a great idea. Also if you watch the game winning shot of the OKC game with them you get a tutorial on how not to guard Steph Curry. Turning your back on him past half court is not a great idea.

[weebo]

Wow, why aren't you coaching in the NBA?

[tmtcsc]

I'm sure you have all heard of the saying "whoever dicates the pace, wins the game". This is obviously true in so many forms against the warriors but how exactly can the spurs manage to slow the game down? Here's a few randoms.

In defense

- Deny the Pass. One of the main reasons why the warriors have so many shots per game is that they take a lot of first option and second option shots. Thompson and Curry always take the first good shot they get, they're not passing that up.

- Pressure full court. The warriors set some of the most amazing sets in basketball. The execution is top notch. By applying pressure full court pressure, you shave off a few seconds in their shotclock to start a set. This is one of the main reasons why Pop heavily experimented with Simmons in their last game because he was the most willing to apply pressure full court.

In offense

- 4 people run backwards, Aldridge crash the board. Offensive boards are just as good as perimter transition defense in killing transition offense. GSW is a deadly transition team. If they're playing small, no reason not to go for the offensive boards by one or two of the bigs.

- Post up offense kills pace, but we already do that so props for pop for recognizing.

- Do not attack the PnR or Pop in their small ball lineup. Post up! If Varejao and Bogut isnt on the floor...post the fuck up.



Apalisoc_9 be like - Sheeeeeit, I got dis.
http://www.leader-blogueur.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/couch-potato.jpg

[r0drig0lac]

Curry has 2 point forwards and other shooter atg playing beside him, Spurs unfortunately has no human material to face this kind of anomaly

[TheDoctor]

Apalisoc_9 be like - Sheeeeeit, I got dis.
http://www.leader-blogueur.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/couch-potato.jpg

LMAOOOO

[-21-]

Great post OP, agree on all points. Of course these things are easier said than done.

I'm really hoping the Thunder drop to 4th place. They give the Warriors a tough fight and I'd like to get some revenge on the Clippers.

[itzsoweezee]

Great post OP, agree on all points. Of course these things are easier said than done.

I'm really hoping the Thunder drop to 4th place. They give the Warriors a tough fight and I'd like to get some revenge on the Clippers.

This is probably the Spurs best hope.

[TheDoctor]

This is a good topic for your podcast Apa :wakeup

[TD 21]

None of this matters if teams keep beating themselves against this team. They still haven't figured out that, as soon as Curry crosses mid court, range is not a factor and neither is a contest. You have to influence the shooting pocket.

There was a perfect example of this last night. Thompson appeared to have an open corner three, but Roberson recovered just in time and stuck his hand essentially in Thompson's shooting pocket. Thompson ended up shooting outside of his pocket and missed.

There's obviously no magic elixir here and it's all easier said than done, but as we discussed with the pick-and-roll defense and off ball screens, teams need to stop doing the same shit.

[Kawhitstorm]

Deny the Pass. One of the main reasons why the warriors have so many shots per game is that they take a lot of first option and second option shots. Thompson and Curry always take the first good shot they get, they're not passing that up.

Teams have tried to overplay Curry & he just kills you by going backdoor. The best option is to leave Klay on Kawhi Island like Hayward & let Danny use his transition defense prowess against Curry. Don't mind leaving Tony on Barnes & baiting him into taking shots away from Curry either.


Pressure full court. The warriors set some of the most amazing sets in basketball. The execution is top notch. By applying pressure full court pressure, you shave off a few seconds in their shotclock to start a set. This is one of the main reasons why Pop heavily experimented with Simmons in their last game because he was the most willing to apply pressure full court.

This is probably the only Porker/Patty can do against Curry on the defensive end.:lol (KCP/Avery Bradley had success doing it) They will be spent if they did it for 48 minutes but the offense is going to run through LMA/Kawhi so might as well go for it.


4 people run backwards, Aldridge crash the board. Offensive boards are just as good as perimter transition defense in killing transition offense. GSW is a deadly transition team. If they're playing small, no reason not to go for the offensive boards by one or two of the bigs.

I've been saying LMA should stick to pounding the offensive glass along w/ sealing Draymond & scoring off high-low passes rather than to back him down w/ 3-4 dribbles. This will also bait Draymond into his trademark Kamikaze drives on fastbreaks which he ends up botching 25% of the time. Pop should drill players to draw charges in transition b/c Draymond usually likes straight line drives & doesn't have a Euro step. (Danny is best suited for tracking Draymond in transition if Porker is on Curry)

If Tim is on the floor, then he should be the one crashing the offensive boards since he can't get back on defense even if he tried.:lol


Post up offense kills pace, but we already do that so props for pop for recognizing

Posting up Dr. Dre on Curry is a no brainer :lol


Do not attack the PnR or Pop in their small ball lineup. Post up! If Varejao and Bogut isnt on the floor...post the fuck up.

The only one who should be posting up is Kawhi but LMA just can't do anything in the post against Draymond unless he's shooting his trademark right shoulder fadeaway rather than trying to go middle.

Two things teams can take advantage of is the Worriers turnovers (ala the Kawhi game) & scoring in transition off long rebounds ala the Pistons (just do chuck up low percentage 3s like Westbrick).
Memo: Don't commit live ball turnovers.:wakeup

[Kawhitstorm]

None of this matters if teams keep beating themselves against this team. They still haven't figured out that, as soon as Curry crosses mid court, range is not a factor and neither is a contest. You have to influence the shooting pocket.

There was a perfect example of this last night. Thompson appeared to have an open corner three, but Roberson recovered just in time and stuck his hand essentially in Thompson's shooting pocket. Thompson ended up shooting outside of his pocket and missed.


That's why you have to deny him the inbound pass & full court pressure him if he gets the pass instead of letting him survey the floor then picking you apart.

As far as shooting pockets, Klay has a quick release so it won't be possible to recover on him often but he & Barnes are their worst playmakers so if you run them off the 3 then it's a win. Barnes is usually shooting practice 3 with no soul around him b/c they run the drag screens to get the help defender away from the shooter.

Teams should just make Draymond a scorer on the PnRs rather than a playmaker b/c dude blows layups & sometimes the rotating is perfect which allows teams to challenge his shot at the rim (that's what the Cavs did early in the series before he got benched for David Lee who the Cavs had to respect as a scorer which led to them rotating off shooters.......the weird thing was they started playing Draymond the same way when he didn't prove he could kill them as a scorer).

Along with hacking Bogut ala the 2013 series, I have faith in Pop trying to make Draymond a scorer just like he let Amare roam free in the 2005 series trying to prevent 3s (3>2). Draymond hasn't even scored 37 pts in his career let along averaging 37 pts in his series so take him out of his comfort zone.

[apalisoc_9]

This is a good topic for your podcast Apa :wakeup

I'm trying to find an application for my podcast tbh. I'm hoping to release the first podcast by late march hopefully. Just trying to find the right equipment

[JohnnyMax]

I'm trying to find an application for my podcast tbh. I'm hoping to release the first podcast by late march hopefully. Just trying to find the right equipment


Use an audio editing software to disguise your voice.

Here is an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dkVRFqd-f8

[TD 21]

That's why you have to deny him the inbound pass & full court pressure him if he gets the pass instead of letting him survey the floor then picking you apart.

As far as shooting pockets, Klay has a quick release so it won't be possible to recover on him often but he & Barnes are their worst playmakers so if you run them off the 3 then it's a win. Barnes is usually shooting practice 3 with no soul around him b/c they run the drag screens to get the help defender away from the shooter.

Teams should just make Draymond a scorer on the PnRs rather than a playmaker b/c dude blows layups & sometimes the rotating is perfect which allows teams to challenge his shot at the rim (that's what the Cavs did early in the series before he got benched for David Lee who the Cavs had to respect as a scorer which led to them rotating off shooters.......the weird thing was they started playing Draymond the same way when he didn't prove he could kill them as a scorer).

Along with hacking Bogut ala the 2013 series, I have faith in Pop trying to make Draymond a scorer just like he let Amare roam free in the 2005 series trying to prevent 3s (3>2). Draymond hasn't even scored 37 pts in his career let along averaging 37 pts in his series so take him out of his comfort zone.

That sounds great, but it's not realistic, for the most part. The only potential Curry defender, in the rotation, that the Spurs can afford to have burn energy like that, is Mills, who's unlikely to play a significant role in the series.

[playbonner15]

Topic would be great as ST Podcast Ep. # 1 though

[apalisoc_9]

Topic would be great as ST Podcast Ep. # 1 though

I'm still working on my equipment. I also need a guest and a good amount are interested in listening but there's non existant interest to come up as a quest.

[Darius McCrary]

Apalisoc_9 be like - Sheeeeeit, I got dis.
http://www.leader-blogueur.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/couch-potato.jpg
LOL

[playbonner15]

I'm still working on my equipment. I also need a guest and a good amount are interested in listening but there's non existant interest to come up as a quest.
You need to create another thread to ask who would like to come on as a guest. I vote for Chinook or SA Girl. But I think a raging UNT will be your best bet

[Chinook]

I liked the Thunder's defensive game plan against the Warriors up until the last eight or so minutes. They treated Green as a wing instead of a big and guarded him accordingly. At the same time, they also treated Barnes/Livingston as bigs. If the Spurs still have 2012 Jack, he'd be perfect for this series. Anderson is probably the best they could do.

The advantage GS has from having a wing on Green is that Draymond can back them down. But that won't really work against Kawhi, Green or Anderson. The first one is obvious, but the second two are the guys who will only struggle if the whistle is against them. They're both great at stealing the ball from the poster. GS is great at this as a team, but they rely on the refs to let them hack at times. If the game is called evenly, it should mean that Green is neutralized as a scorer in exchange for LMA not doing much posting up Green.

So the only thing you really have to do in relation to Curry is not let Green get the ball. If he's the screener, switch (which would be easy if you have Leonard or Anderson on him). If Bogut or Barnes is is the screener, you hedge and let those guys beat you from inside the arc. The most important thing is that you don't give secondary help. If Bogut gets the ball at the elbow, you let him make his move. You don't have someone sink off Thompson to help.

In fact, besides the hedging scenario, the Spurs should NEVER help off Thompson or Barnes. Let the dunks happen; let the layups happen. Trust that your perimeter defenders can stay in or get back into the play. Don't give them an opportunity to get into a rhythm of passing the ball. It's clear from Green's outburst that there are some fragile egos in that locker room. Not letting Draymond touch the ball meaningfully or making Curry use all the possessions on two-pointers will wear on them psychologically.

[ceperez]

I liked the Thunder's defensive game plan against the Warriors up until the last eight or so minutes. They treated Green as a wing instead of a big and guarded him accordingly. At the same time, they also treated Barnes/Livingston as bigs. If the Spurs still have 2012 Jack, he'd be perfect for this series. Anderson is probably the best they could do.

The advantage GS has from having a wing on Green is that Draymond can back them down. But that won't really work against Kawhi, Green or Anderson. The first one is obvious, but the second two are the guys who will only struggle if the whistle is against them. They're both great at stealing the ball from the poster. GS is great at this as a team, but they rely on the refs to let them hack at times. If the game is called evenly, it should mean that Green is neutralized as a scorer in exchange for LMA not doing much posting up Green.

So the only thing you really have to do in relation to Curry is not let Green get the ball. If he's the screener, switch (which would be easy if you have Leonard or Anderson on him). If Bogut or Barnes is is the screener, you hedge and let those guys beat you from inside the arc. The most important thing is that you don't give secondary help. If Bogut gets the ball at the elbow, you let him make his move. You don't have someone sink off Thompson to help.

In fact, besides the hedging scenario, the Spurs should NEVER help off Thompson or Barnes. Let the dunks happen; let the layups happen. Trust that your perimeter defenders can stay in or get back into the play. Don't give them an opportunity to get into a rhythm of passing the ball. It's clear from Green's outburst that there are some fragile egos in that locker room. Not letting Draymond touch the ball meaningfully or making Curry use all the possessions on two-pointers will wear on them psychologically.

Good analysis. Green is most deadly with him out there on the wing and drawing out bigs. I agree with treating him like a wing and begging him to score via a post up play. I'll live with those odds.

[raybies]

Good analysis. Green is most deadly with him out there on the wing and drawing out bigs. I agree with treating him like a wing and begging him to score via a post up play. I'll live with those odds.

I heard somewhere on a broadcast that he is shooting like 28% from the post.

[Chinook]

Good analysis. Green is most deadly with him out there on the wing and drawing out bigs. I agree with treating him like a wing and begging him to score via a post up play. I'll live with those odds.


I heard somewhere on a broadcast that he is shooting like 28% from the post.

He's a great post play-maker though. That's why staying disciplined and not helping on two-pointers is key Parker and LMA just have to not let themselves be back-doored or rubbed off because they were caught ball-watching.

[ezau]

I'm sure you have all heard of the saying "whoever dicates the pace, wins the game". This is obviously true in so many forms against the warriors but how exactly can the spurs manage to slow the game down? Here's a few randoms.

In defense

- Deny the Pass. One of the main reasons why the warriors have so many shots per game is that they take a lot of first option and second option shots. Thompson and Curry always take the first good shot they get, they're not passing that up.

- Pressure full court. The warriors set some of the most amazing sets in basketball. The execution is top notch. By applying pressure full court pressure, you shave off a few seconds in their shotclock to start a set. This is one of the main reasons why Pop heavily experimented with Simmons in their last game because he was the most willing to apply pressure full court.

In offense

- 4 people run backwards, Aldridge crash the board. Offensive boards are just as good as perimter transition defense in killing transition offense. GSW is a deadly transition team. If they're playing small, no reason not to go for the offensive boards by one or two of the bigs.

- Post up offense kills pace, but we already do that so props for pop for recognizing.

- Do not attack the PnR or Pop in their small ball lineup. Post up! If Varejao and Bogut isnt on the floor...post the fuck up.

Great post. You should also include sticking to Curry 40 feet from the basket. He's already extended his range, so it was baffling to me why OKC was giving him wide open space 3-8 feet from behind the three-point line. If Curry's going to beat you off the dribble, so be it.

[ezau]

I liked the Thunder's defensive game plan against the Warriors up until the last eight or so minutes. They treated Green as a wing instead of a big and guarded him accordingly. At the same time, they also treated Barnes/Livingston as bigs. If the Spurs still have 2012 Jack, he'd be perfect for this series. Anderson is probably the best they could do.

The advantage GS has from having a wing on Green is that Draymond can back them down. But that won't really work against Kawhi, Green or Anderson. The first one is obvious, but the second two are the guys who will only struggle if the whistle is against them. They're both great at stealing the ball from the poster. GS is great at this as a team, but they rely on the refs to let them hack at times. If the game is called evenly, it should mean that Green is neutralized as a scorer in exchange for LMA not doing much posting up Green.

So the only thing you really have to do in relation to Curry is not let Green get the ball. If he's the screener, switch (which would be easy if you have Leonard or Anderson on him). If Bogut or Barnes is is the screener, you hedge and let those guys beat you from inside the arc. The most important thing is that you don't give secondary help. If Bogut gets the ball at the elbow, you let him make his move. You don't have someone sink off Thompson to help.

In fact, besides the hedging scenario, the Spurs should NEVER help off Thompson or Barnes. Let the dunks happen; let the layups happen. Trust that your perimeter defenders can stay in or get back into the play. Don't give them an opportunity to get into a rhythm of passing the ball. It's clear from Green's outburst that there are some fragile egos in that locker room. Not letting Draymond touch the ball meaningfully or making Curry use all the possessions on two-pointers will wear on them psychologically.

Good stuff.

[BSfromTX]

One glaring problem is Parker having to defend the post... THAT was a big handicap last game

[tbdog]

What do you mean treat Green as a wing and not a big? Do you mean you mark him with a wing? Wouldn't that be playing down to Warriors small ball? I still believe Diaw destroy's Green. Green cant guard him, and Diaw can.

[SpursforSix]

I'm still working on my equipment. I also need a guest and a good amount are interested in listening but there's non existant interest to come up as a quest.


You need to create another thread to ask who would like to come on as a guest. I vote for Chinook or SA Girl. But I think a raging UNT will be your best bet

Best would be to trick old pedo to come on and answer track and field questions. Then after some softballs, hit him with a full on assault about his child love.

[Chinook]

What do you mean treat Green as a wing and not a big? Do you mean you mark him with a wing? Wouldn't that be playing down to Warriors small ball? I still believe Diaw destroy's Green. Green cant guard him, and Diaw can.

Means you guard him with a wing and guard one of their wings with a PF. And Diaw would have to go SSJ2 to destroy Green. He's just not good enough usually, on either end.

[SpursFan86]

Draymond is one of the best defenders in the league and is particularly solid at post defense. If we're relying on Diaw to "destroy" Green, then we're almost certainly shit out of luck. I initially thought Aldridge exploiting the height advantage over Draymond was going to be a big key, but I'm not even sure about that anymore.

Going after a DPOTY-caliber defender 1-on-1 over and over again usually isn't a very sound offensive strategy.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kyle Anderson has 2 months and change to establish himself with NBA officials..

It's unfortunate, but that's the reality of the NBA..an unknown player with no reputation will pick up 3 quick fouls guarding anybody in a playoff game, especially vs. a high-profile team like Golden State..

[tbdog]

Draymond is one of the best defenders in the league and is particularly solid at post defense. If we're relying on Diaw to "destroy" Green, then we're almost certainly shit out of luck. I initially thought Aldridge exploiting the height advantage over Draymond was going to be a big key, but I'm not even sure about that anymore.

Going after a DPOTY-caliber defender 1-on-1 over and over again usually isn't a very sound offensive strategy.

Actually, watch any Spurs game against warriors last year and you will find Green cannot guard Diaw. I don't know why, but he just cant. Diaw just overpowers him, has enough foot speed to get pass him, is just tall enough to shoot over him, and is savy enough to out position him. Seriously, I am not being a homer here. It is the number one thing I remember watching the spurs and warriors last year. I remember seeing Warriors started to double Diaw because of this.

[tbdog]

Means you guard him with a wing and guard one of their wings with a PF. And Diaw would have to go SSJ2 to destroy Green. He's just not good enough usually, on either end.

So have LMA guard Barnes?

[HarlemHeat37]

Actually, watch any Spurs game against warriors last year and you will find Green cannot guard Diaw. I don't know why, but he just cant. Diaw just overpowers him, has enough foot speed to get pass him, is just tall enough to shoot over him, and is savy enough to out position him. Seriously, I am not being a homer here. It is the number one thing I remember watching the spurs and warriors last year. I remember seeing Warriors started to double Diaw because of this.

Hopefully Boris is just coasting right now, because his post game has looked pretty horrible and ineffective for the past month, tbh:lol

[Chinook]

So have LMA guard Barnes?

Yep.

[tbdog]

Yep.

Wouldn't a simple baseline to baseline pick negate this strategy? Who guarded Barnes and Green in the recent Thunder game?

[Chinook]

Wouldn't a simple baseline to baseline pick negate this strategy? Who guarded Barnes and Green in the recent Thunder game?

Thunder had Ibaka on Barnes and Roberson and Singler on Green. As far as I say, OKC never covered covered Green with a center in normal play.

And any strategy that involves Barnes scoring all of the team's points is a win for the Spurs.

[San Antonio Slayer]

a classic spurs ballmovement+minimum turnovers+blank injured list+some nasty aggressiveness+2014 finals game 3 or 4 field goals %. we can do it at least in one road playoff game at GSW, especially with such an upgraded roster compared to 2014.

[ceperez]

Spurs working on an 'antidote' for the Dubs:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2595825-spurs-quietly-building-the-antidote-to-golden-state-warriors

[DMC]

None of that shit will work. You have to run the 2014 scheme on them, shoot lights out and move the ball. All that other shit will fail.

[Chinook]

None of that shit will work. You have to run the 2014 scheme on them, shoot lights out and move the ball. All that other shit will fail.

"Welcome back to the game, let's go to Chinook with Spurs' coach DMC."

"Coach, what game plan are you going to run to neutralize the Warriors' high-powered offense?"

"Play out of our minds."

"Specifically, how can--"

*Walks away*

"Um, back to you, Ernie."

[apalisoc_9]

None of that shit will work. You have to run the 2014 scheme on them, shoot lights out and move the ball. All that other shit will fail.

Terrible just a terrible basketbal IQ. Sorry DMC.

You dont understand basketball enough.

2014 spurs ball against warriors :lol

[DMC]

Terrible just a terrible basketbal IQ. Sorry DMC.

You dont understand basketball enough.

2014 spurs ball against warriors :lol

Getting your shit pushed in by inside out game by same :lol

Only teams to challege GS this year ran up-tempo offense. They didn't load the paint and get all Bobby Fischer with the game plan. They just out played the Warriors at their own game. Sure the Warriors have some serious outside shooting, but they don't have the same rebounding we have, so we get 2nd looks.

I recall people like you saying that the Heat could be beaten with the inside game because they didn't have a true center. They were beaten by running the fuck out of them. Same with the Warriors.

Either way, you're just looking for a less painful death.

[SpursBig3s]

I liked the Thunder's defensive game plan against the Warriors up until the last eight or so minutes. They treated Green as a wing instead of a big and guarded him accordingly. At the same time, they also treated Barnes/Livingston as bigs. If the Spurs still have 2012 Jack, he'd be perfect for this series. Anderson is probably the best they could do.

The advantage GS has from having a wing on Green is that Draymond can back them down. But that won't really work against Kawhi, Green or Anderson. The first one is obvious, but the second two are the guys who will only struggle if the whistle is against them. They're both great at stealing the ball from the poster. GS is great at this as a team, but they rely on the refs to let them hack at times. If the game is called evenly, it should mean that Green is neutralized as a scorer in exchange for LMA not doing much posting up Green.

So the only thing you really have to do in relation to Curry is not let Green get the ball. If he's the screener, switch (which would be easy if you have Leonard or Anderson on him). If Bogut or Barnes is is the screener, you hedge and let those guys beat you from inside the arc. The most important thing is that you don't give secondary help. If Bogut gets the ball at the elbow, you let him make his move. You don't have someone sink off Thompson to help.

In fact, besides the hedging scenario, the Spurs should NEVER help off Thompson or Barnes. Let the dunks happen; let the layups happen. Trust that your perimeter defenders can stay in or get back into the play. Don't give them an opportunity to get into a rhythm of passing the ball. It's clear from Green's outburst that there are some fragile egos in that locker room. Not letting Draymond touch the ball meaningfully or making Curry use all the possessions on two-pointers will wear on them psychologically.

I do agree with this, but one of the reasons LMA couldn't post up Green was that draymond was literally getting away with murder down there. Actually shoving LMA. Not saying it's an excuse since LMA shoulda shoved eighth back, but that was definitely a factor. Thank god he deleted his social media:lol

[SpursBig3s]

Means you guard him with a wing and guard one of their wings with a PF. And Diaw would have to go SSJ2 to destroy Green. He's just not good enough usually, on either end.


I'm assuming when you say guarding one of their wings with a big you mean have Aldridge (or whoever is the PF) on Barnes? Because while Thompson is largely a product of Curry, he's good enough to take advantage of a favorable matchup like that. Just trying to follow along with your premise here

[SpursBig3s]

^ edit: just saw you answered this a few posts above. My bad. Gotcha