Oregon's nearly $15 minimum wage law tests tiered raises

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown signed legislation Tuesday to make the state's minimum wages the highest in the country, implementing a gradual, three-tier plan balancing the needs of Oregon's sharply divided urban and rural areas, an unprecedented model that might address concerns from wage-raise skeptics in other states.

Hourly wage increases will begin in July and continue until 2022, slowly raising Portland paychecks from $9.25 to $14.75 per hour, smaller cities to $13.50, and rural areas to $12.50. Previously, Massachusetts and California were home to the nation's highest minimum wages. Both states implemented a $10 law on January 1, amid a three-year "Fight for $15" debate about the rising cost of living.

The law "makes sense for workers and for businesses no matter where in Oregon they are," Governor Brown told reporters before signing. "I’m so pleased to sign a bill that represents the innovative and collaborative spirit of Oregon."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0303/Oregon-s-nearly-15-minimum-wage-law-tests-tiered-raises

[InRareForm]

What happens to the person making 15.25?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What happens to the person making 15.25?

They probably start pushing to move wages even higher. For themselves. Wage growth in that bracket has been shit for 30 years.

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder if places like Nike, Flir, Tektronics, Intel, etc. will relocate?

[rmt]

I wonder if places like Nike, Flir, Tektronics, Intel, etc. will relocate?

C'mon down to Florida. No state income tax, 6% sales tax, beautiful weather, DisneyWorld, South Beach, assessed property capped at 3% increase for property tax, sound state pension system.

[boutons_deux]

What happens to the person making 15.25?

they get a raise.

the anti-inequality strategy of raising (doubling) the Fed minimum wage is to push up salaries of everybody. Real household income has been stagnant since St Ronnie and his assholes got power in 1980. There are $Ts of stolen wages to be recovered.

[ChumpDumper]

I wonder if places like Nike, Flir, Tektronics, Intel, etc. will relocate?How many minimum wage employees does each have?

[Wild Cobra]

How many minimum wage employees does each have?
Starting is probably double minimum, but prices will go up, and if minimum doubles, employees will want double what they now have.

[TeyshaBlue]

How many minimum wage employees does each have?
Not sure that matters...it's the upward pressure across the board that will be created that's at play here.

[Wild Cobra]

Not sure that matters...it's the upward pressure across the board that will be created that's at play here.
Yep.

It will make Oregon products more expensive than other places in the nation. This will reduce sales and jobs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

WC, inserting ideological wishcasting in place of empirical analysis.

[boutons_deux]

Yep.

It will make Oregon products more expensive than other places in the nation. This will reduce sales and jobs.

Is why $15 must be Federal. Not local

[ChumpDumper]

Starting is probably double minimum, but prices will go up, and if minimum doubles, employees will want double what they now have.lol double

[ChumpDumper]

Not sure that matters...it's the upward pressure across the board that will be created that's at play here.If Nike headquarters moves to Frisco, WC can claim scoreboard.

[mingus]

Hamburger flippers will make $15.00/hr, then?

A little high IMO. Isn't ~$12.00/hr how it was back in the day accounting for inflation?

I'm all for raising the minimum wage to levels that allow people living off of it to meet life's most basic needs--sustenance, shelter/rent, phone bill, healthcare--but saying the hamburger flipper guy makes it to 30 hrs/week & and has a second job bagging groceries where he gets another 30, then hamburger flipper/grocery baggger guy makes ~$2,500 a month & $30,000/yr. At 30,000/yr he'll likely be able to purchase a nice fat big flat screen T.V. along with who knows what else. It seems kind of ridiculous.

[DarrinS]

It was 3.30 when I was a teen.

[Wild Cobra]

It was 3.30 when I was a teen.

LOL...

Closer to half that when I first started working.

[Th'Pusher]

It was 3.30 when I was a teen.


LOL...

Closer to half that when I first started working.

TOSBs

[boutons_deux]

Hamburger flippers will make $15.00/hr, then?

A little high IMO. Isn't ~$12.00/hr how it was back in the day accounting for inflation?



why should people work 2,3 jobs, 60 - 70 hours/week, just make $30K/year, in your approach. What kind of fucking life is that? Is that The American Dream?

And 90% of those people will NOT move up, over their entire lives, and finish their lives in poverty. American upward mobility is now less than it is in Western Europe, where govt actually help, protect people from the BigCorp/1%

[mingus]

why should people work 2,3 jobs, 60 - 70 hours/week, just make $30K/year, in your approach. What kind of fucking life is that? Is that The American Dream?

And 90% of those people will NOT move up, over their entire lives, and finish their lives in poverty. American upward mobility is now less than it is in Western Europe, where govt actually help, protect people from the BigCorp/1%

Because when you choose the work those and other professions, it should come at the expense of certain things. Quality of life should be one, as it incentivizes education & self-improvement. 60 hrs/week isn't ridiculous IMO.

[Spurminator]

LOL...

Closer to half that when I first started working.

So you started working in the late 60's? That's when minimum wage was at its highest in terms of real value.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.jpg

[pgardn]

This is an interesting test.

There are a lot of variables StAte to State, and current economic climate will have some impact as well. But at least it's better than the tired old lines of the zealots on both sides who claim they know exactly what the impact will be. Cause they don't...

[baseline bum]

Because when you choose the work those and other professions, it should come at the expense of certain things. Quality of life should be one, as it incentivizes education & self-improvement. 60 hrs/week isn't ridiculous IMO.

How do you raise a kid working 60 hours a week?

[Wild Cobra]

So you started working in the late 60's? That's when minimum wage was at its highest in terms of real value.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.jpg

Early 70's.

[Wild Cobra]

How do you raise a kid working 60 hours a week?

If people are irresponsible enough to have kids they can't afford, they should have their tubes tied in exchange for subsidies so they can't burden society with more subsidies in the future.

They should be ashamed of themselves. I would expect them to work 80 hrs a week if needed, because they deserve that for their irresponsibility.

They are losers. Not because they are poor, but because they feel entitled for other people to subsidize them.

I am sick of the losers in this country!

Now of course, there are exceptions. People who had good income and had bad luck. Not many of those on subsidies fit that category though.

[TeyshaBlue]

Get off my lawn!

[Wild Cobra]

Get off my lawn!
???

Where did that outburst come from?

[TeyshaBlue]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud_00.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/teyshablue/media/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud_00.jpg.html)

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud_00.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/teyshablue/media/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud_00.jpg.html)

They came up with those intelligence classifications back in the 1920s and SCOTUS allowed sterilization of those deemed 'imbecile' or worse. People should be careful what they wish for.

[mingus]

How do you raise a kid working 60 hours a week?

You share the duties with your gf/wife. She (or he) could also work a part-time job that is flexible enough so that she and he don't have to worry too much about day-care or kids at mom's house. It's not a perfect situation, but it's completely doable (plenty of people do do it), and it incentivizes self-improvement by goal-setting.

[mingus]

LOL people acting like working 60 hrs/week for 12.00 isn't compatible with living a decent life. I did this after high school as I was furthering my education. Sure, you've to make compromises and you're fine with that, so long as you don't have an entitlement mentality and understand that the rewards & privileges that you don't have are YOURS if you better yourself by making smart/commonsensical decisions & working hard.

[baseline bum]

You share the duties with your gf/wife. She (or he) could also work a part-time job that is flexible enough so that she and he don't have to worry too much about day-care or kids at mom's house. It's not a perfect situation, but it's completely doable (plenty of people do do it), and it incentivizes self-improvement by goal-setting.

In a two parent household yes.

[mingus]

In a two parent household yes.

Yup. And unfortunately if you can't make the hours work so that enough time can be spent with the kid, then you've made a dumb decision to have a kid at least in the short term.

[Wild Cobra]

In a two parent household yes.

Why do you enable irresponsible people, rather than hold them accountable for their problems?

Are you one of them?

[Spurminator]

If people are irresponsible enough to have kids they can't afford, they should have their tubes tied in exchange for subsidies so they can't burden society with more subsidies in the future.

They should be ashamed of themselves. I would expect them to work 80 hrs a week if needed, because they deserve that for their irresponsibility.

They are losers. Not because they are poor, but because they feel entitled for other people to subsidize them.

I am sick of the losers in this country!

Now of course, there are exceptions. People who had good income and had bad luck. Not many of those on subsidies fit that category though.

You forgot to credit Trump for that quote.

[Spurminator]

Yup. And unfortunately if you can't make the hours work so that enough time can be spent with the kid, then you've made a dumb decision to have a kid at least in the short term.

So the punishment for a "dumb" decision, in your opinion (which I assume also means getting divorced from the father of your children after an abusive marriage) is poverty.

Seems harsh.

[Spurminator]

Why do you enable irresponsible people, rather than hold them accountable for their problems?

Are you one of them?

You guys have a very limited view of how people become single parents.

[baseline bum]

Why do you enable irresponsible people, rather than hold them accountable for their problems?

Are you one of them?

I have a friend in that exact situation, having to work 60 hour weeks while raising two kids alone after his wife was in the wrong place at the wrong time and caught a bullet to the head.

[Wild Cobra]

You guys have a very limited view of how people become single parents.
I have stated there are exception in post 25.

My problem is those having children when cannot afford to in the first place. You will always find someone who was OK financially, then something unforeseen happened. That's what we have safety nets for. Not for starting families on.

[Wild Cobra]

I have a friend in that exact situation, having to work 60 hour weeks while raising two kids alone after his wife was in the wrong place at the wrong time and caught a bullet to the head.

That's an exception. Not what we normally see. Again, my problem is people starting families that cannot afford to.

Goes to show that life insurance would be worth purchasing for a young couple.

[ChumpDumper]

But let's make abortion practically impossible for the greatest number of women possible. That will help.

[ChumpDumper]

That's an exception. Not what we normally see. Again, my problem is people starting families that cannot afford to.

Goes to show that life insurance would be worth purchasing for a young couple.Still finding a way to blame the victim. Gotta admire the effort.

[Wild Cobra]

Still finding a way to blame the victim. Gotta admire the effort.

No, I don't blame the victims. Just the perpetrators.

[ChumpDumper]

No, I don't blame the victims. Just the perpetrators.Shoulda had more insurance.

[TeyshaBlue]

I have stated there are exception in post 25.

My problem is those having children when cannot afford to in the first place. You will always find someone who was OK financially, then something unforeseen happened. That's what we have safety nets for. Not for starting families on.

Min wage is not a safety net

[TeyshaBlue]

Why do you enable irresponsible people, rather than hold them accountable for their problems?

Are you one of them?

Why hold the children responsible?

[TeyshaBlue]

LOL people acting like working 60 hrs/week for 12.00 isn't compatible with living a decent life. I did this after high school as I was furthering my education. Sure, you've to make compromises and you're fine with that, so long as you don't have an entitlement mentality and understand that the rewards & privileges that you don't have are YOURS if you better yourself by making smart/commonsensical decisions & working hard.

It isnt compatible with having a life. It becomes a life.

[TeyshaBlue]

It isnt compatible with having a life. It becomes a life.

Although I can agree with the foundational outlook, there are more disconnects between that and eventual success now.

[mingus]

So the punishment for a "dumb" decision, in your opinion (which I assume also means getting divorced from the father of your children after an abusive marriage) is poverty.

Seems harsh.

What?

Where did I say that? I don't know how you got there.

If divorce happens due to abuse, and the woman takes full-custody of the child, and gets child support, then she & child can live & provide off of a wage of $11-12 hr on 40 hrs a week. It wouldn't be the greatest of living standards, but I wouldn't call it poverty. Unless, you're living in New York City, San Fran , LA etc. where the cost of living is ridiculous. In which case, move & settle to a more wallet-friendly part of the country. Again, not ideal. But that's what happens when you knowingly & naively produce a child with an alcoholic or wife-beater.

[mingus]

It isnt compatible with having a life. It becomes a life.

Sort of. It becomes your life, for part of your life. Hell and I worked 70-80 hrs/week sometimes. I worked 136 straight days at 10-12 hrs/day. But it's not permanent unless you want it to be. Now, my work is not my life.

[Wild Cobra]

Min wage is not a safety net
I'm not saying it is. I don't know what raising it so high will accomplish, but raise the local cost of living, and make other wage earners demand more as well.

[Wild Cobra]

Why hold the children responsible?

I hold the parents responsible. It's the parents that committed the child abuse, by having kids they can't afford.

[TeyshaBlue]

But you are punishing the children by proxy.

[mingus]

If people are irresponsible enough to have kids they can't afford, they should have their tubes tied in exchange for subsidies so they can't burden society with more subsidies in the future.

They should be ashamed of themselves. I would expect them to work 80 hrs a week if needed, because they deserve that for their irresponsibility.

They are losers. Not because they are poor, but because they feel entitled for other people to subsidize them.

I am sick of the losers in this country!

Now of course, there are exceptions. People who had good income and had bad luck. Not many of those on subsidies fit that category though.

On $11-12/hr it is possible to raise a child. Ideally both parents are working full-time jobs at least 40 hrs/week. If they're desperate, they still need to share financial responsibilities of parenting.

The minimum wage being where it's at right now though just doesn't allow for it. That's why I'm for increasing it. Unless you have no desire to go out and find a job, worrying about being able to financial support your kid shouldn't be a worry. It shouldn't be counted as a priveledge to be able to raise a kid, but something you can do with a regular job and not having to defer to the govt. (which in the end is OUR money) because multi-billion dollar corporations don't pay enough. In this situation, it's more us bailing out corporations & companies than govt. bailing out those who can't afford shit.

[Spurminator]

I have stated there are exception in post 25.

Exceptions to your forced sterilization policy? Oh, okay, that's a relief.

[Spurminator]

If divorce happens due to abuse, and the woman takes full-custody of the child, and gets child support, then she & child can live & provide off of a wage of $11-12 hr on 40 hrs a week. It wouldn't be the greatest of living standards, but I wouldn't call it poverty. Unless, you're living in New York City, San Fran , LA etc. where the cost of living is ridiculous. In which case, move & settle to a more wallet-friendly part of the country. Again, not ideal. But that's what happens when you knowingly & naively produce a child with an alcoholic or wife-beater.

:lol

You're right, it's always obvious that a relationship will become abusive, so they should know what they're getting into.

Frankly, the reasons for the divorce are not even important. A person should be able to leave a dead marriage without their children suffering from poverty.

[mingus]

:lol

You're right, it's always obvious that a relationship will become abusive, so they should know what they're getting into.

Frankly, the reasons for the divorce are not even important. A person should be able to leave a dead marriage without their children suffering from poverty.

I was being facetious. I know it's not that simple always, still it's probably pretty common--common enough so as not to automatically elicit a sympathy response for the woman since the evidence pointing to a bad partner is usually present, but ignored (fwiw, my mother, who I love dearly, was one of these women). You play with fire...still of course I feel bad for kid. Which is why I don't think they should have to live in poverty. And I never did say that. If parents work jobs, they should be able to provide a decent, modestly comfortable living for themselves and a kid. The $15/hr wage alternative that's being offered up here though goes beyond that.

So maybe the kid grows up without the newest gadgets, clothes and shoes, and doesn't get a cell phone by the time he's nine, or new car at 16...That builds character--it built character in me. Growing up with little HELPED me, lit a fire under my ass. I grew up in one of the poorest counties, in one of the poorest neighborhoods in the U.S. There's silver lining to not growing up with much.

[InRareForm]

its not how much you make its how much you spend

[Wild Cobra]

Exceptions to your forced sterilization policy? Oh, okay, that's a relief.

It's not forced.

It's the payment one gives to accept subsidies. It's an insurance that their subsidy rate will not need be increased in the future.

We already have too many kids who have little chance of not repeating their parents mistakes. Why not try to reduce the burden on society?

[z0sa]

Because when you choose the work those and other professions, it should come at the expense of certain things. Quality of life should be one, as it incentivizes education & self-improvement. 60 hrs/week isn't ridiculous IMO.

Yeah, its beyond that.

[TeyshaBlue]

It's not forced.

It's the payment one gives to accept subsidies. It's an insurance that their subsidy rate will not need be increased in the future.

We already have too many kids who have little chance of not repeating their parents mistakes. Why not try to reduce the burden on society?

Why do you continue to conflate subsidies with min wage?

[pgardn]

Sort of. It becomes your life, for part of your life. Hell and I worked 70-80 hrs/week sometimes. I worked 136 straight days at 10-12 hrs/day. But it's not permanent unless you want it to be. Now, my work is not my life.

Your personal experience is not necessarily the way the world works although you may think it is.

My work is a huge part of my life and I love it. I think about it constantly and it's wonderful.

[InRareForm]

It isnt compatible with having a life. It becomes a life.

Gotta pay bills. Prioritize time after the fact.

[Bender]

LOL...

Closer to half that when I first started working.

me too. I remember getting around 1.75 an hour.

[boutons_deux]

Fuck y'all's history. Everybody's got one

The point is that Federal minimum wage should be $15 now, indexed in inflation and locale, and stepped up to $25/hour (in 2015 base) by 2025.

[Pelicans78]

Fuck y'all's history. Everybody's got one

The point is that Federal minimum wage should be $15 now, indexed in inflation and locale, and stepped up to $25/hour (in 2015 base) by 2025.

Still wouldn't help you since you're too busy in your mom's basement scrolling articles.

[boutons_deux]

Still wouldn't help you since you're too busy in your mom's basement scrolling articles.

wonderful comeback, always devastating

[Wild Cobra]

Why do you continue to conflate subsidies with min wage?

I'm not. This is a tangent. However, minimum wage should never be considered a living wage. Anyone wanting minimum wage as a living wage has surrendered. Saying they are incapable of doing better. it will hamper motivation.

[boutons_deux]

minimum wage should never be considered a living wage.

:lol you rigthwingnuts are proving yourselves repeatedly to be black-hearted bastards, fucking the poor every which way.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol you rigthwingnuts are proving yourselves repeatedly to be black-hearted bastards, fucking the poor every which way.
Well, if you want to be coddled and suck your thumb all your life, that's on you.

[boutons_deux]

Well, if you want to be coddled and suck your thumb all your life, that's on you.

:lol go take you meds. XZ might have some left over.

the 99% are coddling the 1%/BigCorp/VRWC by being ripped off by them for $Ts for decades.

[ChumpDumper]

me too. I remember getting around 1.75 an hour.What year was that?

[baseline bum]

boutons on that $25/hour minimum wage shit again? :lmao

[boutons_deux]

boutons on that $25/hour minimum wage shit again? :lmao

why not? you've been dumbed down to eat shit as inevitable, unchallengeable

[baseline bum]

why not? you've dumbed down to eat shit as inevitable, unchallengeable

Can you write in complete sentences instead of word salad?

[mingus]

I'm not. This is a tangent. However, minimum wage should never be considered a living wage. Anyone wanting minimum wage as a living wage has surrendered. Saying they are incapable of doing better. it will hamper motivation.

There are people, for which there are no incentives to do better. For whatever reason. But IMO a 40 hr work week should cover their (modest) bills. Someone's gotta do those jobs, and I think it's ridiculous our tax money right now is compensating them for what their employers won't.

[rmt]

its not how much you make its how much you spend

I think it's how much you keep - that's accounting for taxes (for you Bernie fans).

[Wild Cobra]

There are people, for which there are no incentives to do better. For whatever reason. But IMO a 40 hr work week should cover their (modest) bills. Someone's gotta do those jobs, and I think it's ridiculous our tax money right now is compensating them for what their employers won't.

Well, the way I see it, anyone worth hiring at a higher rate has already worked two years or more part time while in high school and now has work experience and references to get a higher paying job when they are out of high school. Who's fault is it if the think they are too good for minimum wage? Why are people even having kids when they only have a minimum wage job, or not even that?

Society is out of control. It used to be known as wrong not to have kids until a couple was married, and not to be married until there was a future. What is wrong with all these irresponsibility that people accept today as normal?

Well... Normal today is really fucked up.

Minimum wage at 40 hrs is barely adequate for a single person to live. It usually requires having a working roommate. Forget trying to raise kids on it. After FICA and federal tax, minimum wage pays just under $14k annual. About $1123.63 monthly.

Most reasonable people recognize it as a stepping stone to a better job. Anyone (who thinks they are) too good for a minimum wage job, is too damn stupid to understand how life is. An employer will hire an employed minimum wage worker before hiring an equally qualified unemployed person. So... apparently this stupid lazy ass worker who is too good for a minimum wage job, is too good for any job!

[z0sa]

But you are punishing the children by proxy.

Exactly. Life is rarely black and white.

[Wild Cobra]

Exactly. Life is rarely black and white.
Is it societies responsibility to take up the slack of losers?

Have to do something to make people realize how pathetic they are to expect society to give them free passes. Shame needs to be instituted again. People these days don't even have the decency to feel ashamed of the burden they place on society.

[z0sa]

Is it societies responsibility to take up the slack of losers?

Have to do something to make people realize how pathetic they are to expect society to give them free passes. Shame needs to be instituted again. People these days don't even have the decency to feel ashamed of the burden they place on society.

Honestly, there is a nuget of truth in thia comment, but it doesnt address the issue. Until you find a happy medium, someone goes down hard. You cant just take parents down without fucking their children up.

[Wild Cobra]

Honestly, there is a nuget of truth in thia comment, but it doesnt address the issue. Until you find a happy medium, someone goes down hard. You cant just take parents down without fucking their children up.

That's why I advocate having their tubes tied if irresponsibility lead to requiring subsidies. This way, there isn't a 2nd, 3rd... etc... need for subsidies.

[mingus]

Well, the way I see it, anyone worth hiring at a higher rate has already worked two years or more part time while in high school and now has work experience and references to get a higher paying job when they are out of high school. Who's fault is it if the think they are too good for minimum wage? Why are people even having kids when they only have a minimum wage job, or not even that?

Society is out of control. It used to be known as wrong not to have kids until a couple was married, and not to be married until there was a future. What is wrong with all these irresponsibility that people accept today as normal?

Well... Normal today is really fucked up.

Minimum wage at 40 hrs is barely adequate for a single person to live. It usually requires having a working roommate. Forget trying to raise kids on it. After FICA and federal tax, minimum wage pays just under $14k annual. About $1123.63 monthly.

Most reasonable people recognize it as a stepping stone to a better job. Anyone (who thinks they are) too good for a minimum wage job, is too damn stupid to understand how life is. An employer will hire an employed minimum wage worker before hiring an equally qualified unemployed person. So... apparently this stupid lazy ass worker who is too good for a minimum wage job, is too good for any job!

i don't disagree with the fact that society is out of control in that regard. Too many babies out of wedlock. But not paying two people enough on minimum wage to support said child only makes these worse. For them, and the rest of the tax/payers.

[Winehole23]

Minimum Wages Increases Adopted in 2015*

Emeryville, California $15 (by 2018)



Los Angeles $15 (by 2020)
Portland, Maine $10.68 (by 2017)
Kansas City, Missouri $13 (by 2020)
Birmingham, Alabama $10.10 (by 2017)
St. Louis $11 (by 2018)
Palo Alto, California $11 (by 2016)
Johnson County, Iowa $10.10 (by 2017)
Los Angeles County $15 (by 2020-21)
Mountain View, California $15 (by 2018)
Sacramento, California $12.50 (by 2020)
Lexington, Kentucky $10.10 (by 2018)
Tacoma, Washington $12 (by 2018)
Bangor, Maine $9.75 (by 2019)

Minimum Wage Increases Adopted in 2014



Las Cruces, New Mexico $10.10 (by 2019)
Santa Fe County, New Mexico $10.84
Sunnyvale, California $10.30
San Diego $11.50 (by 2017)
Oakland, California $12.25
Berkeley, California $12.53 (by 2016)
Richmond, California $13 (by 2018)
Louisville, Kentucky $9 (by 2017)
Chicago $13 (by 2019)
San Francisco $15 (by 2018)
Seattle $15 (by 2017-2021)

Sources: Bloomberg, U.S Labor Department
*New York adopted a $15 minimum for state and fast-food workers by 2021

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-04/we-ll-find-out-soon-if-minimum-wages-kill-jobs

[Winehole23]

As I have noted before (http://ritholtz.com/2016/03/perspective-on-min-wage/), higher minimum wages transfer wealth from shareholders and business owners to workers. But they do something else. When lower-income workers get raises -- especially those receiving minimum wages -- they will spend almost all of it. That increase in consumer spending stimulates the economy. By comparison, the well-off are much less likely to spend each additional dollar of income and are more likely to save it. Although that might boost the pool of investment capital, it does little to boost the economy short term.

The real test will come when the U.S. slips into recession, as it inevitably will. That might reveal whether a higher minimum wage acts as a safety net for low-wage workers -- or prevents them from getting jobs during a slowdown.

same

[boutons_deux]

"Too many babies out of wedlock"

an increasing number of legit, solid couples are not getting married and having kids. Society using official marriage to keep couples together is less useful (50% marriages end in divorce anyway), so the utility to society is decreasing. Then there is this:

Understanding the Marriage Penalty and Marriage Bonushttp://taxfoundation.org/article/understanding-marriage-penalty-and-marriage-bonus

[boutons_deux]

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-03-04/we-ll-find-out-soon-if-minimum-wages-kill-jobs

Must be Federal, not local, indexed to inflation and regional CoL.

The Birgmingham AL city minimum, IIRC, is being banned by Repugs at state level. Repugs always fucking people at every turn.

[Winehole23]

Must be Federal, not local, indexed to inflation and regional CoL.impossible given the current composition of Congress and GOP dominance of state legislatures, so it falls to the cities.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is it societies responsibility to take up the slack of losers?

Have to do something to make people realize how pathetic they are to expect society to give them free passes. Shame needs to be instituted again. People these days don't even have the decency to feel ashamed of the burden they place on society.

:lol burdened. Baby boomers and the military are the burden. The poor don't get much of shit.

You sound like an Amway rep frankly. Look down on the poor and call them lazy but pay service to the man. Good minion.

[Wild Cobra]

i don't disagree with the fact that society is out of control in that regard. Too many babies out of wedlock. But not paying two people enough on minimum wage to support said child only makes these worse. For them, and the rest of the tax/payers.

Excuses excuses in my view.

Minimum wage is not a living wage. Never was, and never should be.

People simply need to be more responsible.

[Wild Cobra]

"Too many babies out of wedlock"

an increasing number of legit, solid couples are not getting married and having kids. Society using official marriage to keep couples together is less useful (50% marriages end in divorce anyway), so the utility to society is decreasing. Then there is this:

Understanding the Marriage Penalty and Marriage Bonushttp://taxfoundation.org/article/understanding-marriage-penalty-and-marriage-bonus

I'm less concerned about the "out of wedlock" part as I am both parents being responsible. Times have changed, but financial responsibility is a fact of life regardless of under what conditions people live under.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol burdened. Baby boomers and the military are the burden. The poor don't get much of shit.

You sound like an Amway rep frankly. Look down on the poor and call them lazy but pay service to the man. Good minion.

Wow.

There you go, showing your stupidity again...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wow.

There you go, showing your stupidity again...

Over half the budget is medicare, social security and DoD. It is what it is.

You sound like someone who has bought into Amway promotion. They tell people that they are not successful at Amway because they do not work hard enough. You espouse a slave's mentality.

[mingus]

Excuses excuses in my view.

Minimum wage is not a living wage. Never was, and never should be.

People simply need to be more responsible.

Where have you read that minimum wage never was a liveable wage? Because I've read the opposite.

I'm not suggesting that everybody working those jobs can't or shouldn't try to advance their careers to earn more. But at the end of the day, I still believe a bar has to be set in terms of what the lowest paid possible full-time worker should earn.

[mingus]

Anyway, not sure prolonging the discussion really accomplishes much seeing how there are several fundamental points of disagreement b/w you and I. The one which I'm most uncompromising on is the belief that having a child is not a privilege but a right. That two people at the lowest professions--there, perhaps, through no fault of their own (ie maybe the hamburger flipper just genuinely isn't cut out to manage the joint, or become a computer technician, etc.; maybe his cashier wife at the Dollar Store isn't cut out to be store supervisor, nurse, nutritionist etc.)--should have the right to have a child and whose joint income should cover their bills. Otherwise we're talking about socially engineering, Darwinian Capitalism, in the truest sense. I'm not for that, and never will be. It's simply an evil belief in my view.

[baseline bum]

It always seem strange to me how birth rates plummet as wealth increases. I guess when you're in poverty your kids don't live as long, so have as many as possible to pass on your genes?

[mingus]

It always seem strange to me how birth rates plummet as wealth increases. I guess when you're in poverty your kids don't live as long, so have as many as possible to pass on your genes?

When you live in poverty, because you can't buy anything, you have kids. It sounds bad, but kids for them compensates for the what they can't buy. There's more, like having more kids means more potential income when kids becomes of age to work. At least that's my theory. Those are the two main reasons IMO.

[boutons_deux]

Deal reached to boost California's minimum wage to $15, avoiding ballot box battle

Lawmakers and labor unions have struck a tentative deal to raise the statewide minimum wage to $10.50 an hour next year and then gradually to $15, averting a costly political campaign this fall and possibly putting California at the forefront of a national movement.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html

As always, CA out front in national trends, while slave, red states remain retrograde, low-wage, low-info, anti-labor, right-to-work-for-less.

[tlongII]

Deal reached to boost California's minimum wage to $15, avoiding ballot box battle

Lawmakers and labor unions have struck a tentative deal to raise the statewide minimum wage to $10.50 an hour next year and then gradually to $15, averting a costly political campaign this fall and possibly putting California at the forefront of a national movement.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html

As always, CA out front in national trends, while slave, red states remain retrograde, low-wage, low-info, anti-labor, right-to-work-for-less.






And yet California is broke. Imagine that.

[boutons_deux]

You lie

[tlongII]

You lie

https://contracostabee.com/california-still-broke/

[Wild Cobra]

Deal reached to boost California's minimum wage to $15, avoiding ballot box battle

Lawmakers and labor unions have struck a tentative deal to raise the statewide minimum wage to $10.50 an hour next year and then gradually to $15, averting a costly political campaign this fall and possibly putting California at the forefront of a national movement.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html

As always, CA out front in national trends, while slave, red states remain retrograde, low-wage, low-info, anti-labor, right-to-work-for-less.





California will simply lose more union jobs to nonunion jobs in Texas.

Oh well...

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually, there are very few employers in Texas paying minimum wage. Most are a couple of dollars more at least. The ones actually working for minimum wage are the absolute dregs and the employers get what little they pay for.

[boutons_deux]

Any (TX) company paying under $10/hour is HAPPY to pay poverty wages because their shitty business plan depends on paying poverty wages.

[boutons_deux]

California will simply lose more union jobs to nonunion jobs in Texas.

Oh well...

Yep, Repug/red/slave state TX is definitely pro-business and, by definition, anti-labor. And TX laborers, as in all Repug states, keep voting to screw themselves OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

[TheSanityAnnex]

And yet California is broke. Imagine that.
Yeah if they don't reform gov employees pensions this place I call home is royally fucked.

[boutons_deux]

Yeah if they don't reform gov employees pensions this place I call home is royally fucked.

yep, govts and BigCorp can break contracts with citizens with impunity, but let a citizen try to escape a contract, and the financial/legal/police-state will harass him for decades, including jail.

[Wild Cobra]

Yep, Repug/red/slave state TX is definitely pro-business and, by definition, anti-labor. And TX laborers, as in all Repug states, keep voting to screw themselves OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

What complaints are there from the residence, that are greater than any other state?

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah if they don't reform gov employees pensions this place I call home is royally fucked.

It is already fucked.

[boutons_deux]

What complaints are there from the residence, that are greater than any other state?

That's the problem, the pro-business-at-all-costs-to-citizens-and-environment capitalists have convinced labor that labor's decline is unchallengeable, inevitable, so you sheeple laborers shut fuck up while we capitalists screw you even more.

If you sheeple labor are really pissed, we capitalists convince you the problem is abortion, Muslims, the knitters, War on Christmas, immigrants, lack of Christians' freedom to screw non-Christians, feminazis, sensible gun laws, etc, etc.

iow, your problems, bitterness, anger, your inability to get and/or stay ahead, to retire in non-poverty, is NOT DUE TO US CAPITALISTS FUCKING YOU OVER for decades.

We capitalists :lol :lol :lol at you sheeple labor every fucking day as we drain your wealth.

[Wild Cobra]

No, my problem is ignorant asses like you. Our biggest problem with wages are from things like allowing illegal immigrants and supporting global free trade. The supply and demand of wages are on the side of low wages with what we have done to ourselves as a nation.

[InRareForm]

What happens to the person making $16 an hour and then you have a 18 year old just hired will make only a dollar less.

Weird system.

[boutons_deux]

What happens to the person making $16 an hour and then you have a 18 year old just hired will make only a dollar less.

Weird system.

All wages get pushed up along with OT threshold to $75K

[TheSanityAnnex]

All wages get pushed up along with OT threshold to $75K
:lmao

[mingus]

:lmao

+1

Businesses would close left and right having to bump not only their min. wage earners to $15 yr but their top-level wage earners to an amount proportional "enough" to it. The $15/hr min. wage is waaaaay to high. It should be $10.

Greed works both ways. A bunch of hamburger flippers making $15/hr is about as fucked up greed-wise as the current state of corporate greed.

[Wild Cobra]

All wages get pushed up along with OT threshold to $75K

You think it's going to stop at $75k?

LOL...

Now with "all wages getting push up to $75k," how is that going to affect inflation... You know... the prices of goods and services?

Will it really benefit anyone when in making more money, they now pay more because of the inflation forced into the system?

[boutons_deux]

OT threshold at $75K, not minimum or all wages. If you make less that $75K, then you get paid 1.5x, and 2x on non-weekdays.

[boutons_deux]

You People have been so brainwashed by BigCorp/VRWC/1% that you think someone working 40+ hours and still in poverty and needing taxpayer assistance is OK.

You've been fed shit in the War on Labor for 40 years, and you eat it with relish.

[CosmicCowboy]

Boo, if you want a raise get off the fucking internet and work harder.

[boutons_deux]

Boo, if you want a raise get off the fucking internet and work harder.

I'd like more, who doesn't (the wealthy NEVER have enough) but I make plenty thanks, and GFY.

[Wild Cobra]

Boo, if you want a raise get off the fucking internet and work harder.

Yep.

Better yourself Boo...

Don't expect us to subsidize you.

[boutons_deux]

So you rightwingnut assholes don't have a position, other than FUCK ALL THE POOR (of any color, most being white) and go along with being raped by the 1%/BigCorp, with letting businesses screw employees.

[boutons_deux]

Paul Ryan is still a grifter: The GOP has become a tax-avoidance scam for the 1 percentGOP's propaganda campaign to end estate tax proves it's a cleverly disguised grifting operation for the rich
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/28/paul_ryan_is_still_a_grifter_the_gop_has_become_a_ tax_avoidance_scam_for_the_1_percent/

And you rightwingnut STers fall for the Repug propaganda every time: enable/enrich/protect the rich, and ignore, if not screw, everybody else.

[TeyshaBlue]

lol Salon vs propaganda.
Delicious irony is delicious

[boutons_deux]

lol Salon vs propaganda.
Delicious irony is delicious

TB :lol making his usual content-free, The-Great-Boutons-stalking posts

[DMX7]

lol Salon vs propaganda.
Delicious irony is delicious

Salon is generally crap but the point made is legit regardless.

[TeyshaBlue]

TB :lol making his usual content-free, The-Great-Boutons-stalking posts
You run and hide when challenged. 's ok...we understand.

[TeyshaBlue]

Case in point:


not at all, but I appreciate your lack of perception.

Christian Taliban are the major faction of American Christians, not a tiny slice.

Um no. Prove it. That would require data, not moonbat blog posts.
:lol

[boutons_deux]

You run and hide when challenged. 's ok...we understand.

TB :lol, lost in his own fantasies.

[TeyshaBlue]

Keep running from the question, coward.

[boutons_deux]

America NEVER learn from other countries, but this is worth watching (esp under an otherwise typically retrograde conservative UK govt)

World watches Britain’s ‘living wage’ experiment

The new policy, which starts on Friday, will see the wages for low-paid workers rise four times faster than average earnings this year.

The world will be watching. Governments in many developed countries are turning to minimum wage policies as they try to deal with inequality and anaemic wage growth.

The stagnation in wages in recent years has been blamed on the rise of global competition, the decline in collective bargaining, a slowdown in productivity growth and the way in which technology has “hollowed out” some middle-skilled jobs.

In response, Germany introduced its first ever minimum wage last year; Japan’s prime minister Shinzo Abe has called for minimum wage increases of 3 per cent a year for the foreseeable future;

“Minimum wages have never been so popular. The next question is: how far can you push it?”

This is the question that Britain’s new national living wage — which starts at £7.20 an hour and will reach about £9 an hour by 2020 — will put to the test.

At £6.70 an hour, a minimum wage worker in the UK would have to work 26 minutes to buy a Big Mac.

That is better than the US (41 minutes) and Japan (32 minutes), similar to Ireland and Germany, and worse than Australia and Denmark (18 and 16 minutes respectively).

If Britain brought in its £9 an hour target today, a minimum-wage worker could buy a Big Mac after 18 minutes.

http://im.ft-static.com/content/images/8a20fc2e-f502-11e5-96db-fc683b5e52db.img

But economists’ opinions are now more nuanced, in large part because of the experience of countries such as the UK, which have so far sustained steady increases in the minimum wage without doing any notable damage to employment.

The early signs from Germany are also positive. In spite of nervousness from businesses about the introduction of a minimum wage of €8.50 an hour last year, the unemployment rate has continued to fall and is now at a record low.

“My view of the history of minimum wages is that we’ve always been surprised about how you seem to be able to push them up without harming job prospects,” says Alan Manning, a professor at the London School of Economics.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2ae61f24-f2a9-11e5-aff5-19b4e253664a.html?ftcamp=published_links%2Frss%2Fh ome_us%2Ffeed%2F%2Fproduct#axzz44IQKt8Xe

[InRareForm]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-vote-20160331-story.html

[boutons_deux]

New York Budget Deal With Higher Minimum Wage Is Reached
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/01/nyregion/new-york-budget-deal-with-higher-minimum-wage-is-reached.html

red, slave states screwing workers, blue states helping workers.

[Aztecfan03]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-vote-20160331-story.html

And a union made election contributions to several Democrats who voted for it on the same day.

[boutons_deux]

And a union made election contributions to several Democrats who voted for it on the same day.

so as a low-wage, low-info laborer, you hate unions?

[spurraider21]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/04/06/californias-15-minimum-wage-sure-is-going-to-be-painful/#9acb3d13763d

[boutons_deux]

"I argue that there shouldn’t be a minimum wage in the first place"
... so fuck you, cretin.

[TheSanityAnnex]

"I argue that there shouldn’t be a minimum wage in the first place"
... so fuck you, cretin.



Excellent analysis and rebuttal. Will recommend to friends and family.