Stein: Free agent guard Kevin Martin has agreed to join the San Antonio Spurs

[lil'mo]

Most of your posts are meant to belittle.

A lot of you need belittling

[SpursIndonesia]

Please, no more Anderson. Stop the madness

Still a much better asset to keep compared to Matty BonBon. :rolleyes

[spursistan]

Butler not getting cut yet after almost 24 hours from the agreement is probably a good sign for him..

Obviously I'm not overrating Butler, and he certainly isn't moving the needle for us..but the point of adding veterans at the deep end of a contender's bench is the capacity of those guys play/contribute in a pinch..In that function, through 62 games , Rasual eclipses Bonner pretty convincingly..

If Pop opts to keep Bonner and his dodgy calf, it would reek of toe-curling sentimentality..There is just no way around it..no fuckin' basketball reason...And let's stop this "good locker room guy" BS, because last time I checked Tim/Manu still have nameplates inside it..no one is looking up to Ginger....

[Kawhitstorm]

Butler not getting cut yet after almost 24 hours from the agreement is probably a good sign for him..

Obviously I'm not overrating Butler, and he certainly isn't moving the needle for us..but the point of adding veterans at the deep end of a contender's bench is the capacity of those guys play/contribute in a pinch..In that function, through 62 games , Rasual eclipses Bonner pretty convincingly..

If Pop opts to keep Bonner and his dodgy calf, it would reek of toe-curling sentimentality..There is just no way around it..no fuckin' basketball reason...And let's stop this "good locker guy" BS, because last time I checked Tim/Manu still have nameplates inside it..no one is looking up to Ginger....

Bonner got his contract b/c there was no one else PATFO were interested in picking up for the vet min & Rasual earned his contract during training camp so that basically means Pop already has acknowledge: Rasual > Bonner as far as what they have to offer on the court.

Considering how shitty Diaw has been, it makes it even more imperative to keep Rasual who can also fill in spot minutes at the wing if Kyle is shaky in the postseason. Let's not forget, Bonner barely played against the Clippers when Tiago was injured.

[ace3g]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner got one last game at home (tonight) and then moves on to the front office job he obviously already has in place.

[BillMc]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner got one last game at home (tonight) and then moves on to the front office job he obviously already has in place.

But he's out injured isn't he?

[Kawhitstorm]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner got one last game at home (tonight) and then moves on to the front office job he obviously already has in place.

No need to cut players until K-Mart passes his physical so that could be the case.

[ace3g]

^ He has been off and on the injury report the past few games.

[Mr. Body]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner got one last game at home (tonight) and then moves on to the front office job he obviously already has in place.

Seems about right. Other scenarios, we'd see the player cut already.

[spursistan]

Bonner got his contract b/c there was no one else PATFO were interested in picking up for the vet min & Rasual earned his contract during training camp so that basically means Pop already has acknowledge: Rasual > Bonner as far as what they have to offer on the court.

Considering how shitty Diaw has been, it makes it even more imperative to keep Rasual who can also fill in spot minutes at the wing if Kyle is shaky in the postseason. Let's not forget, Bonner barely played against the Clippers when Tiago was injured.

That's the point.. He played 19 minutes OVER a regular rotation guy who was stinking up the joint in a close game and got 2 blocks/2 assist (vs Pelicans)..Is this the profile of somebody who needs to be cut right after? If it happens that would one of the coldest PATFO move i could remember..

[TD 21]

People can trumpet Butler's better than expected athleticism/all around game, but the bottom line is, he was only brought in because they couldn't afford someone like Martin and he was always going to need to shoot a high percentage from three for them to not pursue an upgrade.

Even though they're not exactly the same player/position, they'll essentially be asked to play the same role and they're obviously going to go with Martin over him, which makes him expendable.

I'd be fine with keeping him over Bonner, but I'd understand if Bonner is kept too, because unless he immediately slides into a front office role, his loss would have a more profound effect on the team.

All the predictable talk of Martin being a "loser" and "a scorer, not a spot up shooter", ignores two things. 1) He's been on one relevant team (for one season) in his career and 2) He mostly played off the ball and shot 42% from three.

[Kidd K]

Funny how you can hate a player and their tactics, but when all of the sudden they're on your team it's a different story. Let's hope he draws some cheap fouls for the Spurs when they need it.

He's on the Spurs now. He won't get calls very often anymore by association. :lol

[will_spurs]

We post up with so many players now the kick out to another 3 point shooter who can also drive is quite compelling...Someone who the defense must cover. It's an obvious move. Martin fitting the entire scheme is doubtful.

Martin is a good 3pt shooter so there's that.

[objective]

Martin USED to be a good three point shooter, he's just average now. In fact he would be by percentage be inferior to guys like Diaw and Simmons.

Better than Butler and Anderson, and useless Miller, but nothing special.

[ElNono]

Martin USED to be a good three point shooter, he's just average now. In fact he would be by percentage be inferior to guys like Diaw and Simmons.

Better than Butler and Anderson, and useless Miller, but nothing special.

Could we at least give the guy a few games in the Spurs system with the looks that system provides before declaring he's done as a shooter?

[TD 21]

Martin USED to be a good three point shooter, he's just average now. In fact he would be by percentage be inferior to guys like Diaw and Simmons.

Better than Butler and Anderson, and useless Miller, but nothing special.

He still is. 37%, on a mess of a team, going in and out of the rotation.

It's not only about percentage though, it's also about volume. Diaw and Simmons are not volume shooters and don't have reputations as shooters, so defenses don't respect them.

[Hoops Czar]

Could we at least give the guy a few games in the Spurs system with the looks that system provides before declaring he's done as a shooter?

Agreed. While were at it, we should probably stop asking questions like should Martin get some of Green's minutes when the team needs more offense unless you're a fan of addition by subtraction. Not sure if I've seen enough of him to make a claim for or against.

[benefactor]

Even though they're not exactly the same player/position, they'll essentially be asked to play the same role and they're obviously going to go with Martin over him, which makes him expendable.
Pretty shitty take. Their roles are actually nothing the same. One is an instant offense guard and the other is a energy player/solid help defender who is a backup 3/small ball 4.

[ElNono]

Agreed. While were at it, we should probably stop asking questions like should Martin get some of Green's minutes when the team needs more offense unless you're a fan of addition by subtraction. Not sure if I've seen enough of him to make a claim for or against.

Fair enough. I just think Pop sometimes does look for that, even if he knows it hurts the defense. He did quite a bit of that with Beli, and there are teams out there that won't punish you for having a poor defender on the floor (Stots' Blazers come to mind)...

[Spurtacular]

By when do the Spurs have to cut a player?

[TD 21]

Pretty shitty take. Their roles are actually nothing the same. One is an instant offense guard and the other is a energy player/solid help defender who is a backup 3/small ball 4.

I said, on this team.

Butler playing small ball power forward is just an attempt to occasionally wring some more three-point shooting out of a team that lacks it and to give Diaw a kick in the ass, but there was never a chance of Butler playing over Diaw in the post season.

If Butler were to have a rotation role, it would be as a small forward and obviously he'd remain a spot up shooter. That's the exact role Martin will fill.

[Chinook]

Could we at least give the guy a few games in the Spurs system with the looks that system provides before declaring he's done as a shooter?

While I agree with the idea of being patient, I feel like your post is only looking at the situation from one perspective. It supposes that the "system" is something that is beyond the players when it's really far from true. The players make the system, not the other way around. While that's obvious when considering stars like Leonard and LMA, it's true even for role-players. The way the offense and team as a whole run with Mills at PG is completely different than when Tony is PG. Or having Manu instead of Green, West instead of Duncan or Diaw. Personnel dictates how the Spurs run their sets, who stands where and when, and how fast the ball moves.

Bringing in limited shooters like Martin might result in him having better looks and higher percentages. Or it could hinder the Spurs' offense by having a guy who doesn't like shooting from the corner rather than guys like Anderson or Simmons who like shooting from there. And it's even worse if Martin is playing next to Manu, as Ginobili doesn't like shooting from the corner either. No one in the corner limits passing lanes on drives. It clogs up the PnR. Add to the fact that Martin can only shoot on the left side, and he isn't that great at spacing the floor. So it's entirely possible that he'll hurt the system more than it'll help him, at least from a spot-shooting perspective.

[Kawhitstorm]

By when do the Spurs have to cut a player?

After K-Mart passes his physical & the deal gets approved by the league.

[coachmac87]

While I agree with the idea of being patient, I feel like your post is only looking at the situation from one perspective. It supposes that the "system" is something that is beyond the players when it's really far from true. The players make the system, not the other way around. While that's obvious when considering stars like Leonard and LMA, it's true even for role-players. The way the offense and team as a whole run with Mills at PG is completely different than when Tony is PG. Or having Manu instead of Green, West instead of Duncan or Diaw. Personnel dictates how the Spurs run their sets, who stands where and when, and how fast the ball moves.

Bringing in limited shooters like Martin might result in him having better looks and higher percentages. Or it could hinder the Spurs' offense by having a guy who doesn't like shooting from the corner rather than guys like Anderson or Simmons who like shooting from there. And it's even worse if Martin is playing next to Manu, as Ginobili doesn't like shooting from the corner either. No one in the corner limits passing lanes on drives. It clogs up the PnR. Add to the fact that Martin can only shoot on the left side, and he isn't that great at spacing the floor. So it's entirely possible that he'll hurt the system more than it'll help him, at least from a spot-shooting perspective.



But if this is all true..Why would the Spurs do it?

[Spurtacular]

After K-Mart passes his physical & the deal gets approved by the league.

What I figured, tbh; wasn't sure if Bonner's injury would create an exception though.

[ElNono]

While I agree with the idea of being patient, I feel like your post is only looking at the situation from one perspective. It supposes that the "system" is something that is beyond the players when it's really far from true. The players make the system, not the other way around. While that's obvious when considering stars like Leonard and LMA, it's true even for role-players. The way the offense and team as a whole run with Mills at PG is completely different than when Tony is PG. Or having Manu instead of Green, West instead of Duncan or Diaw. Personnel dictates how the Spurs run their sets, who stands where and when, and how fast the ball moves.

Bringing in limited shooters like Martin might result in him having better looks and higher percentages. Or it could hinder the Spurs' offense by having a guy who doesn't like shooting from the corner rather than guys like Anderson or Simmons who like shooting from there. And it's even worse if Martin is playing next to Manu, as Ginobili doesn't like shooting from the corner either. No one in the corner limits passing lanes on drives. It clogs up the PnR. Add to the fact that Martin can only shoot on the left side, and he isn't that great at spacing the floor. So it's entirely possible that he'll hurt the system more than it'll help him, at least from a spot-shooting perspective.

Not sure I agree with all that. We're obviously no longer a monolithic team in the style we play, but that doesn't mean we don't try to do certain things that makes our players play to their strengths. Things like solid screens, ball movement, proper execution, passing up good for better shots, etc are the foundation of a lot of what we do, no matter who plays. It's true that certain players have more leeway to go ISO here and there, but you'll never call the Spurs an ISO team compared to the rest of the league. So, yeah, taking a higher percentage of uncontested looks vs contested looks can make you look better, and you get those with the extra pass, team discipline, etc.

If he still sucks missing wide open looks, then ok, that can happen, and he could be done.

[tholdren]

While I agree with the idea of being patient, I feel like your post is only looking at the situation from one perspective. It supposes that the "system" is something that is beyond the players when it's really far from true. The players make the system, not the other way around. While that's obvious when considering stars like Leonard and LMA, it's true even for role-players. The way the offense and team as a whole run with Mills at PG is completely different than when Tony is PG. Or having Manu instead of Green, West instead of Duncan or Diaw. Personnel dictates how the Spurs run their sets, who stands where and when, and how fast the ball moves.

Bringing in limited shooters like Martin might result in him having better looks and higher percentages. Or it could hinder the Spurs' offense by having a guy who doesn't like shooting from the corner rather than guys like Anderson or Simmons who like shooting from there. And it's even worse if Martin is playing next to Manu, as Ginobili doesn't like shooting from the corner either. No one in the corner limits passing lanes on drives. It clogs up the PnR. Add to the fact that Martin can only shoot on the left side, and he isn't that great at spacing the floor. So it's entirely possible that he'll hurt the system more than it'll help him, at least from a spot-shooting perspective.

The way the offense and team as a whole run with Mills at PG is completely different than when Tony is PG. Or having Manu instead of Green, West instead of Duncan or Diaw. Personnel dictates how the Spurs run their sets, who stands where and when, and how fast the ball moves.....

[Mal]

It could be Simmons vs Butler tonight. Green is sitting on purpose

[loveforthegame]

Quit leaving Acy open.

[Spurs9]

Kinda sad seeing Bonner on bench right now :depressed

[Chinook]

Not sure I agree with all that. We're obviously no longer a monolithic team in the style we play, but that doesn't mean we don't try to do certain things that makes our players play to their strengths. Things like solid screens, ball movement, proper execution, passing up good for better shots, etc are the foundation of a lot of what we do, no matter who plays. It's true that certain players have more leeway to go ISO here and there, but you'll never call the Spurs an ISO team compared to the rest of the league. So, yeah, taking a higher percentage of uncontested looks vs contested looks can make you look better, and you get those with the extra pass, team discipline, etc.

If he still sucks missing wide open looks, then ok, that can happen, and he could be done.

I feel like you completely ignored my point. It's not Martin will miss wide-open looks. He shouldn't do that very much (at least in the regular season), as he is a good shooter. It's that players have strengths and weaknesses, and the "system" is really just the gestalt that comes from combining those with core principles. That gestalt changes depending on who's in the game. Take a simple PnR from the Boban rolls on his picks; pretty much everyone else pops. Diaw will flare to the wing on his pops, while West will side to the elbow. LMA will slide toward the key most of the time. Mills will come off the screen looking to pull up, while Parker comes off looking to drive. Green will slide to the corner following the driver, while Manu will move toward the top of the arc. Those tendencies affect how well plays work, and the negative changes are usually mitigated due to someone else's positive changes.

Martin's weaknesses mean other players have to adjust to HIM getting the ball where he can be effective. He then has to be good enough in those spots to make the offense better or at least the same. It's not as simple as him getting Green's or Mills' looks and enjoying their success. I believe a guy like Eddie could shoot 50-plus percent from three with the Spurs, because he can shoot from anywhere. A guy like Martin can't. Big difference.

[tholdren]

I feel like you completely ignored my point. It's not Martin will miss wide-open looks. He shouldn't do that very much (at least in the regular season), as he is a good shooter. It's that players have strengths and weaknesses, and the "system" is really just the gestalt that comes from combining those with core principles. That gestalt changes depending on who's in the game. Take a simple PnR from the Boban rolls on his picks; pretty much everyone else pops. Diaw will flare to the wing on his pops, while West will side to the elbow. LMA will slide toward the key most of the time. Mills will come off the screen looking to pull up, while Parker comes off looking to drive. Green will slide to the corner following the driver, while Manu will move toward the top of the arc. Those tendencies affect how well plays work, and the negative changes are usually mitigated due to someone else's positive changes.

Martin's weaknesses mean other players have to adjust to HIM getting the ball where he can be effective. He then has to be good enough in those spots to make the offense better or at least the same. It's not as simple as him getting Green's or Mills' looks and enjoying their success. I believe a guy like Eddie could shoot 50-plus percent from three with the Spurs, because he can shoot from anywhere. A guy like Martin can't. Big difference.
fail

[ElNono]

I feel like you completely ignored my point. It's not Martin will miss wide-open looks. He shouldn't do that very much (at least in the regular season), as he is a good shooter. It's that players have strengths and weaknesses, and the "system" is really just the gestalt that comes from combining those with core principles. That gestalt changes depending on who's in the game. Take a simple PnR from the Boban rolls on his picks; pretty much everyone else pops. Diaw will flare to the wing on his pops, while West will side to the elbow. LMA will slide toward the key most of the time. Mills will come off the screen looking to pull up, while Parker comes off looking to drive. Green will slide to the corner following the driver, while Manu will move toward the top of the arc. Those tendencies affect how well plays work, and the negative changes are usually mitigated due to someone else's positive changes.

Martin's weaknesses mean other players have to adjust to HIM getting the ball where he can be effective. He then has to be good enough in those spots to make the offense better or at least the same. It's not as simple as him getting Green's or Mills' looks and enjoying their success. I believe a guy like Eddie could shoot 50-plus percent from three with the Spurs, because he can shoot from anywhere. A guy like Martin can't. Big difference.

I didn't, I just think we don't necessarily agree with what makes "the system". What you describe as "the system" is what I call style of play, which, IMO, it's still the same system, we're just executing different plays within that system which play to the current's lineup perceived strengths. The Spurs play a ton of choreographed basketball, regardless if they're playing small ball or have the big frontline out there, that's "the system" to me. What you're describing (as far as I understand) is that there are no plays within the Spurs offensive system that can make a scorer like Martin look good, and I would just disagree with that. We have plays coming off screens for Kawhi or Green (or even Belli when he was here), that I would argue are even more suitable for Martin, who's also a good penetrator. Then there's the discipline this team has about execution and the extra pass, etc, that fans here take for granted, but if you watch around the league, it's so far out there.

Now, I'm ok that you have a different view about what "the system" is. We've discussed over the years what "the system" is in this place, and a lot of people have different ideas about it.

[Chinook]

What you're describing (as far as I understand) is that there are no plays within the Spurs offensive system that can make a scorer like Martin look good, and I would just disagree with that.

That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, it feels like my point is missed. It's not just about Martin. It's about everyone around him too. The Spurs' plays, like pretty much all basketball plays, have options built into them. I listed some of them in my last post. Those options mean that no lineup runs anything other than set plays the same. Even then, set plays are usually tailored to certain personnel, so they don't really count as exceptions. Those options, along with scouting reports, change how opponents defend the Spurs at any given moment. Against Parker, the other team might hedge. Against Mills, the other team might go over the screen. Against Miller, the other team will probably just go under. Who's the weakside spot-up guy determines how much help comes from there, which affects the next decision by the Spurs, the next set of options.

Yes, you have certain rules, like cut-throughs perimeter players have to make, certain screens at the start of sets. But even they aren't the same. A Mills cut-through is more dangerous than a Green cut-through, which is usually only a formality. A West screen is more effective than a Butler screen. Diaw having the ball ready for a hand-off with the guard is actually him in a triple-threat position, whereas for Duncan it would probably just be the hand-off. It goes on, and on and on.

The Spurs can totally have a Martin package that makes him effective. But that doesn't happen in a vacuum. The question is going to be if those system changes have negative effects on the other guys on the floor, and if the net benefit is positive. It's much easier (in my opinion) to see him doing that when he's allowed to play his game in a smaller role than it is for him to do it as a spot-up guy.

[tholdren]

That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, it feels like my point is missed. It's not just about Martin. It's about everyone around him too. The Spurs' plays, like pretty much all basketball plays, have options built into them. I listed some of them in my last post. Those options mean that no lineup runs anything other than set plays the same. Even then, set plays are usually tailored to certain personnel, so they don't really count as exceptions. Those options, along with scouting reports, change how opponents defend the Spurs at any given moment. Against Parker, the other team might hedge. Against Mills, the other team might go over the screen. Against Miller, the other team will probably just go under. Who's the weakside spot-up guy determines how much help comes from there, which affects the next decision by the Spurs, the next set of options.

Yes, you have certain rules, like cut-throughs perimeter players have to make, certain screens at the start of sets. But even they aren't the same. A Mills cut-through is more dangerous than a Green cut-through, which is usually only a formality. A West screen is more effective than a Butler screen. Diaw having the ball ready for a hand-off with the guard is actually him in a triple-threat position, whereas for Duncan it would probably just be the hand-off. It goes on, and on and on.

The Spurs can totally have a Martin package that makes him effective. But that doesn't happen in a vacuum. The question is going to be if those system changes have negative effects on the other guys on the floor, and if the net benefit is positive. It's much easier (in my opinion) to see him doing that when he's allowed to play his game in a smaller role than it is for him to do it as a spot-up guy.
jesus chinook stretching. its worse than a cry havoc turd-post

[lefty]

Better PG than Parker tbh..

[ElNono]

That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, it feels like my point is missed. It's not just about Martin. It's about everyone around him too. The Spurs' plays, like pretty much all basketball plays, have options built into them. I listed some of them in my last post. Those options mean that no lineup runs anything other than set plays the same. Even then, set plays are usually tailored to certain personnel, so they don't really count as exceptions. Those options, along with scouting reports, change how opponents defend the Spurs at any given moment. Against Parker, the other team might hedge. Against Mills, the other team might go over the screen. Against Miller, the other team will probably just go under. Who's the weakside spot-up guy determines how much help comes from there, which affects the next decision by the Spurs, the next set of options.

Yes, you have certain rules, like cut-throughs perimeter players have to make, certain screens at the start of sets. But even they aren't the same. A Mills cut-through is more dangerous than a Green cut-through, which is usually only a formality. A West screen is more effective than a Butler screen. Diaw having the ball ready for a hand-off with the guard is actually him in a triple-threat position, whereas for Duncan it would probably just be the hand-off. It goes on, and on and on.

The Spurs can totally have a Martin package that makes him effective. But that doesn't happen in a vacuum. The question is going to be if those system changes have negative effects on the other guys on the floor, and if the net benefit is positive. It's much easier (in my opinion) to see him doing that when he's allowed to play his game in a smaller role than it is for him to do it as a spot-up guy.

I understand your concern better now, more of a fit issue. I don't necessarily share it, but, I'll say that adding him this late in the season will inevitably lead to some jitters. It probably would've worked better if we could have involved him with the team from the start of the season.

[Chinook]

I understand your concern better now, more of a fit issue. I don't necessarily share it, but, I'll say that adding him this late in the season will inevitably lead to some jitters. It probably would've worked better if we could have involved him with the team from the start of the season.

And if Manu retires, the bench would have a different paradigm, just like the SL does with Kawhi and LMA taking over for Parker. A guy like Martin could make sense as the center of the second-unit offense for a year or two. People to act like I didn't want Martin for the minimum over look the fact that I had been willing for the Spurs to take on Martin's contract for the last couple years.

[loveforthegame]

Think we hear something tonight? Or tomorrow?

[ElNono]

And if Manu retires, the bench would have a different paradigm, just like the SL does with Kawhi and LMA taking over for Parker. A guy like Martin could make sense as the center of the second-unit offense for a year or two. People to act like I didn't want Martin for the minimum over look the fact that I had been willing for the Spurs to take on Martin's contract for the last couple years.

Not even thinking of Martin long term ATM... I envision his role is to be a limited 10-15 min guy off the bench. Maybe more if we're banged up, need the extra scoring, etc. He's not that old and I think he could fetch more money in the open market than the Spurs would be willing to spend. But, we'll see.

[SAGirl]

It could be Simmons vs Butler tonight. Green is sitting on purpose
IMO I also saw the fact Anderson was guarding SG for a good chunk of the game as a factor in the decision. On the one hand a test for KA, but on the other, if you have Danny, Manu, Kmart, on top of that you like 2 PG lineups and are not shy using them, and now Kyle can be relied guarding SG for a stretch if you need him to, you can play Kawhi and Kyle on the wings together if you need to, Simmons is super redundant.

He's only kept if Pop wants him for next season which should be wise. 3 years in the system-2 in Austin 1 here, good character guy they obviously like, I really though this was an audition for him. Still bc his cheap contract and youth he's likely kept and Rasual is likely out but I think there is some real conflict with Pop.

Bonner being a better shooter than Rasual seals it. What Rasual does Kyle can do better at 22 yrs old, only he's not shooting 3s but Rasual has been streaky.

Really neither guy tips the scale this season therefore maybe you keep Simmons for the next one.

[Indazone]

Kmart is a shooting guard. He will stay on the perimeter. He won't start but he could be another piece when you match up with the Warriors.

[BackHome]

Bonnet has played on what two games this year? I think Pop kept him around with the thinking if they don't make any changes you can stay. However, if we have to make changes u might have to go. Butler has done everything that has been asked so letting him go would be a serious dick move by Pop.

[SAGirl]

Damn, no news on this or who is getting cut. I don't much care for Kmart, but I am intrigued to see how it goes. I have made my peace with it being Butler TBH, but I suspect Pop has some indecision.

[loveforthegame]

I'm guessing it won't be official until Wednesday now? They won't cut anyone until Martin passes his physical. I assume that will be done tomorrow. Maybe he's with the team in Minnesota on Tuesday? Otherwise get it done Wednesday and be available for Chicago on Thursday??

[Russ]

Radio silence as per usual.

[Kawhitstorm]

Radio silence as per usual.

PATFO don't do business on weekends nor does the league office who have to approve the deal.

[Darius Bieber]

PATFO don't do business on weekends nor does the league office who have to approve the deal.

Woj announced the release of McCallum last Saturday, the 27th.

[benefactor]

Release will likely come tomorrow morning sometime. I'm starting to lean towards it being Simmons.

[timtonymanu]

Release will likely come tomorrow morning sometime. I'm starting to lean towards it being Simmons.

This. Yesterday was his last chance to show something and he couldn't. Unfortunate for him but Butler doesn't deserve to get cut and Bonner has an personal connection with the team.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Release will likely come tomorrow morning sometime. I'm starting to lean towards it being Simmons.

If this does happen, people better not meltdown, simmons isnt gonna be the difference between a title or not, just like Bonner and Rasual wont be. Its really not a big deal.

[ceperez]

If this does happen, people better not meltdown, simmons isnt gonna be the difference between a title or not, just like Bonner and Rasual wont be. Its really not a big deal.

I would like to think that Spurs value the long term development of their players. Simmons still has opportunity to improve.

Bonner and Rasual are both end of career players.

What is interesting is Spurs played Bonner a lot more against the Kings.

What the fans do not know is whether Bonner is actually doing much better in practice. It is one of those hidden variables that we are all blind to.

Also, we are talking here the 15th player in the lineup. Even if the player isn't cut, it has to be someone who gets inserted in special case situations.

The call really will be about who is best against GSW. Spurs can beat any team without the services of Bonner or Rasual. However, I think Spurs need to be able to cover small ball situations and clearly Rasual is the better candidate for that.

[cd98]

Spurs are a business. If someone is better and available, than anyone on the roster may be cut.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I would like to think that Spurs value the long term development of their players. Simmons still has opportunity to improve.

Bonner and Rasual are both end of career players.

What is interesting is Spurs played Bonner a lot more against the Kings.

What the fans do not know is whether Bonner is actually doing much better in practice. It is one of those hidden variables that we are all blind to.

Also, we are talking here the 15th player in the lineup. Even if the player isn't cut, it has to be someone who gets inserted in special case situations.

The call really will be about who is best against GSW. Spurs can beat any team without the services of Bonner or Rasual. However, I think Spurs need to be able to cover small ball situations and clearly Rasual is the better candidate for that.

Simmons upside isnt as good as what everyone is saying, he is a high effort, low skill kind of guy, he will never be anything more than a bench guy

[cd98]

Simmons is the same age as Jimmer. He's an old rookie...he likely won't be much better than what you see. But that has been good at times. He's a bench guy in the NBA as long as he has his athleticism, but he probably won't be in the NBA at 32.

[ceperez]

Simmons upside isnt as good as what everyone is saying, he is a high effort, low skill kind of guy, he will never be anything more than a bench guy

so are you saying Bonner or Rasual have an upside? They've always been bench guys their entire career.

[ceperez]

Simmons is the same age as Jimmer. He's an old rookie...he likely won't be much better than what you see. But that has been good at times. He's a bench guy in the NBA as long as he has his athleticism, but he probably won't be in the NBA at 32.

Bonner is 35.... 20th oldest player
Butler is 36.... 12th oldest player

[Spurs 4 The Win]

so are you saying Bonner or Rasual have an upside? They've always been bench guys their entire career.

No, im just saying, the idiots here shouldnt cry if he gets cut because he isnt gonna develop into some badass like a lot of people here are predicting. He is a very average bench player with the potential to be a slightly above average bench player.

[tholdren]

I would like to think that Spurs value the long term development of their players. Simmons still has opportunity to improve.

Bonner and Rasual are both end of career players.

What is interesting is Spurs played Bonner a lot more against the Kings.

What the fans do not know is whether Bonner is actually doing much better in practice. It is one of those hidden variables that we are all blind to.

Also, we are talking here the 15th player in the lineup. Even if the player isn't cut, it has to be someone who gets inserted in special case situations.

The call really will be about who is best against GSW. Spurs can beat any team without the services of Bonner or Rasual. However, I think Spurs need to be able to cover small ball situations and clearly Rasual is the better candidate for that.

One would hope that Simmons doesn't get moved. Who's to say if he would or wouldn't make a difference in the playoffs. YOU NEED ENERGY PLAYERS.

As far as the other comment goes - practice - as a fan it doesn't matter to me if he's the best practice player in the history of time. If you get on the court, and don't make use of your time on the court during the game, it doesn't matter. Bonner has been on the team for years, for some reason. He may be a great guy, with a killer twitter following, but Im not a fan for social media reasons. Always look for a better player than your worst player on the bench. Replace and repeat. ITS A BUSINESS.

[ceperez]

One would hope that Simmons doesn't get moved. Who's to say if he would or wouldn't make a difference in the playoffs. YOU NEED ENERGY PLAYERS.

As far as the other comment goes - practice - as a fan it doesn't matter to me if he's the best practice player in the history of time. If you get on the court, and don't make use of your time on the court during the game, it doesn't matter. Bonner has been on the team for years, for some reason. He may be a great guy, with a killer twitter following, but Im not a fan for social media reasons. Always look for a better player than your worst player on the bench. Replace and repeat. ITS A BUSINESS.

We need players that can help against Curry. I don't see how Butler or Bonner help in that department. At best Butler can cover Livingston, Igoudola or even D. Green. Bonner can't cover any of the 3.

[cd98]

Bonner is 35.... 20th oldest player
Butler is 36.... 12th oldest player

Sure but that has nothing to do with my post. I'm just saying that what you see is what you get with Simmons. He's not likely to get much better. I'm not advocating cutting him, but I'm saying Anderson has room to get better given his age. Simmons is old so he won't get much better than what he is now and will only get less athletic over the next 4 years.

[cd98]

We need players that can help against Curry. I don't see how Butler or Bonner help in that department. At best Butler can cover Livingston, Igoudola or even D. Green. Bonner can't cover any of the 3.

Bonner has played big minutes against Thunder as a stretch 4. Gotta beat Thunder before you can beat GSW. Not saying Bonner won't get cut, but I don't think it's an easy call either.

[ViceCity86]

lmao I didnt even know this guy was still in the league

I didn't know Lakers were in the league too.:lmao

[spurtech09]

So when will Martin be in the line-up?

[BillMc]

I didn't know Lakers were in the league too.:lmao
:lol

[gambit1990]

k mart has played with the kings, the rockets, the thunder, and the timberwolves.

has he played with any current member of the spurs before? other than andre. i doubt it off the top of my head, just wondering.

[tholdren]

I don't think so - I don't know if you even count his playing time with Miller this year.

[cutewizard]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2016/03/04/kevin-martin-signing-spurs-challenge-warriors-western-conference/81354414/

[Russ]

ESPN thinks he's already on the Spurs:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2394/kevin-martin

[spurtech09]

ESPN thinks he's already on the Spurs:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2394/kevin-martinAny news on when he will sign....

[exstatic]

I would'nt be shocked if Pop drops the ax on Simmons, tbh..


I thought about this too. Maybe give him the Danny Green speech and tell him to keep working on his game and they will bring him back next season.


Simmons is the same age as Jimmer. He's an old rookie...he likely won't be much better than what you see. But that has been good at times. He's a bench guy in the NBA as long as he has his athleticism, but he probably won't be in the NBA at 32.

I'm always amazed at the way people totally undersell the Spurs development program. Neal was fucking 25 when he got here, and is still in the league at 31.

[spurraider21]

I'm always amazed at the way people totally undersell the Spurs development program. Neal was fucking 25 when he got here, and is still in the league at 31.
:lmao jeff ayres

[exstatic]

:lmao jeff ayres

[currently playing for the #4 seed Clippers]

[spurraider21]

[currently playing for the #4 seed Clippers]
no he isn't

he had two 10-day contracts and they didn't renew after that


:lmao jeff ayres

[dabom]

I bet you are fun at parties. :fight

[UNT Eagles 2016]

ESPN thinks he's already on the Spurs:

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2394/kevin-martin
#99 :lol what is this, football? Big JJ Watt fan?

[jermaine]

He's already signed but the Spurs are keeping it hush to figure out who they wanna cut first. Pop at his best!!!

[Ice009]

He's already signed but the Spurs are keeping it hush to figure out who they wanna cut first. Pop at his best!!!

I don't think you can sign him until someone is cut first? or am I wrong on that?

[Chinook]

I'm always amazed at the way people totally undersell the Spurs development program. Neal was fucking 25 when he got here, and is still in the league at 31.

Gary Neal is the same player that he was in 2010. The Spurs deserve credit for scouting him and getting him to sign a cheap three-year deal. But if that's how Simmons' developmental curve looks, they should look to trade him for a pick this summer.

[TheDoctor]

Also that K-Mart needs to pass a physical first. A one that he didn't take right away as he needed a couple of days to solve some personal things in Minny.

[cjw]

Gary Neal is the same player that he was in 2010. The Spurs deserve credit for scouting him and getting him to sign a cheap three-year deal. But if that's how Simmons' developmental curve looks, they should look to trade him for a pick this summer.

If someone offers a pick late in the first round, or even an early second, you jump on it in a heartbeat. He's a fun player, but also frustrating. Gets to the hoop and scores efficiently, with a decent 3pt stroke, but passing and defense leave plenty to be desired at this point. Plus he's only cost controlled for one more year, while a late first / early second is cost controlled for up to 4 years depending on the contract.

I don't think he's worth a first, but it just takes one dumb team.

[Brazil]

:lol imo there is no way Bonner get cut tbh...

[apalisoc_9]

Gary Neal is the same player that he was in 2010. The Spurs deserve credit for scouting him and getting him to sign a cheap three-year deal. But if that's how Simmons' developmental curve looks, they should look to trade him for a pick this summer.

Can we trade him and our first to move to somwhere around 18-21?

[ace3g]

I wonder if the delay has something to do with the timing of one of the player's contract that is being waived; in terms of guaranteed money.

[TrainOfThought5]

Simmons upside isnt as good as what everyone is saying, he is a high effort, low skill kind of guy, he will never be anything more than a bench guy

If he polishes his jumper, and adds +Defense, he'll flash starter potential next year.

[TrainOfThought5]

If someone offers a pick late in the first round, or even an early second, you jump on it in a heartbeat. He's a fun player, but also frustrating. Gets to the hoop and scores efficiently, with a decent 3pt stroke, but passing and defense leave plenty to be desired at this point. Plus he's only cost controlled for one more year, while a late first / early second is cost controlled for up to 4 years depending on the contract.

I don't think he's worth a first, but it just takes one dumb team.

NOBODY is giving you a 1st for 27 year old jonathan simmons. NOONE.

[Chinook]

I wonder if the delay has something to do with the timing of one of the player's contract that is being waived; in terms of guaranteed money.

We'll know more if a lot of guys rest tonight. From what people were saying Martin had things to do in Minny anyway, so Pop may just want to give it one more try. If Butler gets a lot of minutes tonight, it could be an audition of sorts.

[SpursforSix]

We'll know more if a lot of guys rest tonight. From what people were saying Martin had things to do in Minny anyway, so Pop may just want to give it one more try. If Butler gets a lot of minutes tonight, it could be an audition of sorts.

I can't imagine that Pop hasn't already made the decision. So I don't think he would base anything on how a player performed in 1 or 2 games. To me, those Bonner minutes the other night looked like a going away present.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I have come to the opinion that it will be Simmons who gets cut. He has regressed from a promising start. He is a decent 3 point shooter, but passes up wide open 3's on a regular basis. This has also greatly reduced his ability to get to the rim since everyone is daring him to take the 3 and playing off him. On defense he is often out of position and gets beat on back-door plays at probably the highest rate on the team or close to it. That combined with Martin basically playing the same position leads me to believe that he will be the odd man out.

[Chinook]

If someone offers a pick late in the first round, or even an early second, you jump on it in a heartbeat. He's a fun player, but also frustrating. Gets to the hoop and scores efficiently, with a decent 3pt stroke, but passing and defense leave plenty to be desired at this point. Plus he's only cost controlled for one more year, while a late first / early second is cost controlled for up to 4 years depending on the contract.

I don't think he's worth a first, but it just takes one dumb team.

I don't see him getting close to a first-rounder. I think it would make more sense to think of him as being traded for a specific guy rather than a general pick. Like if someone decent falls into the 40s, I could see the Spurs pulling the trigger. Or if the team is interested in doing a sign-and-trade (with may be necessary with Tim and Manu having options even if they retire, or if the Spurs go after an RFA), Simmons could be part of the sweetener package. I don't think anyone considers him a prospect, really. Some team would have to like him for what he is, not what he could be.


Can we trade him and our first to move to somwhere around 18-21?

Maybe Atlanta would be willing to move their pick, as they seem allergic to picking a decent players nowadays. A guy like Simmons could be their Bazemore replacement, and them having his EB rights combined with his Arenas status means they can FINALLY keep someone in that spot.

[ceperez]

706140499254468608

[Chinook]

I can't imagine that Pop hasn't already made the decision. So I don't think he would base anything on how a player performed in 1 or 2 games. To me, those Bonner minutes the other night looked like a going away present.

He played awfully well in those minutes. Honestly, if Matt can have a couple of decent games, it's NOT clear he should be cut.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

706140499254468608


The Spurs best small ball lineup has been when Butler has been featured at PF. This will be valuable matching up with GS. Bonner should just retire right now, and take a job in the Spurs FO.

The Red Rocket is a likable but he has only played like 120 minutes total this season. That's like less than 2 minutes per contest.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If you ask the question who is least likely to contribute to a championship this year I think it is Simmons. I hope it is Bonner, but Simmons has been playing less and less and his minutes are only going to decrease with Martin on board. With Tim resting frequently the sixth big takes on more importance.

[Luxic]

I wonder if the delay has something to do with the timing of one of the player's contract that is being waived; in terms of guaranteed money.

All contracts become guaranteed on January 10th each season, so that's not the issue. Plus, both Bonner and Butler are on veteran's minimum contracts, which means that the money they're still due (~$325k) is actually paid by the League at this point.

[r0drig0lac]

706140499254468608

#Skipknows

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

If you ask the question who is least likely to contribute to a championship this year I think it is Simmons. I hope it is Bonner, but Simmons has been playing less and less and his minutes are only going to decrease with Martin on board. With Tim resting frequently the sixth big takes on more importance.

I would say that, but the Spurs don't know if Manu is coming back next year. Simmons has shown potential, but he also has shown he needs to improve his game. I wouldn't give up on him in just a year. He is only 27 and has room for improvement.

As far as the big situation, Spurs have been using Butler and Anderson at the 4 a lot this past month. Those two basically negate the need for another big. Spurs have Duncan/West/LMA/Diaw/Boban up front as well.

The fact the Spurs now have LMA hitting 18-20 footers (and even West), the Spurs don't need Bonner as much against OKC to draw Ibaka from the lane. That is one thing that Bonner did have going for him when it comes to playoff matchups. And remember it was Diaw not Bonner that scorched OKC the last time the Spurs played them in the playoffs.

[ginobilized]

Tough choices for Pop. As much as I love what Rasual Butler has contributed, I think that going into the playoffs with 5 bigs is a bold move.
I'm not sure this squad will beat teams going small for long stretches. It really brings up the question of whether you go for the best player or for positional needs.

I have a feeling that if Bonner is healthy, he could be useful against OKC and GS. Dying to find out which way it goes.

My guess is Butler becomes redundant.

[ceperez]

I would say that, but the Spurs don't know if Manu is coming back next year. Simmons has shown potential, but he also has shown he needs to improve his game. I wouldn't give up on him in just a year. He is only 27 and has room for improvement.

As far as the big situation, Spurs have been using Butler and Anderson at the 4 a lot this past month. Those two basically negate the need for another big. Spurs have Duncan/West/LMA/Diaw/Boban up front as well.

The fact the Spurs now have LMA hitting 18-20 footers (and even West), the Spurs don't need Bonner as much against OKC to draw Ibaka from the lane. That is one thing that Bonner did have going for him when it comes to playoff matchups. And remember it was Diaw not Bonner that scorched OKC the last time the Spurs played them in the playoffs.

West has taken a couple of 3's this season. Spurs don't need Bonner to space out the big.

Butler gives a guy at PF that is big enough to cover someone like Draymond Green. He's actually bigger than Green.

Spurs will need to have all the quick footed 6'6" players to cover the Warriors. I just don't see how Bonner fits in the equation. I do see Butler having value though.

We shall see. However, I will be quite upset if Bonner is kept over Butler.

[houston spurs fan]

706140499254468608
Who cares? If Butler or Bonner sees any time in the playoffs other than a blowout we're in trouble.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I would say that, but the Spurs don't know if Manu is coming back next year. Simmons has shown potential, but he also has shown he needs to improve his game. I wouldn't give up on him in just a year. He is only 27 and has room for improvement.

As far as the big situation, Spurs have been using Butler and Anderson at the 4 a lot this past month. Those two basically negate the need for another big. Spurs have Duncan/West/LMA/Diaw/Boban up front as well.

The fact the Spurs now have LMA hitting 18-20 footers (and even West), the Spurs don't need Bonner as much against OKC to draw Ibaka from the lane. That is one thing that Bonner did have going for him when it comes to playoff matchups. And remember it was Diaw not Bonner that scorched OKC the last time the Spurs played them in the playoffs.

There is a big difference in spacing when the defense has to guard the 3 point line and guard an 18 foot jump shot. And I see that Manu coming back is a variable, but Simmons will never be a Manu replacement and the focus is winning this year. Worry about replacing Manu next year. Heck, KMart could end up taking Manu's place in the rotation next year. (Notice I did not say replace Manu because like Tim he is a singular talent.)

[FromWayDowntown]

The thing that weighs heavily in Bonner's favor is that he's shown on a number of occasions that he can just be plugged in and will at least be in the position he's supposed to be in and will give an effort to do what he's supposed to do. Bonner frustrates Spurs fans, largely (I think) because there was a time when the composition of the roster required him to do more than he was actually capable of doing; he's clearly not the most talented (or athletic) guy and he seems to wilt in the spotlight of big moments, which is also frustrating. But over the long haul, Matt has been able to step in, even if he hasn't played in a while, and at least be credible both because of his understanding of what the defense is supposed to do and because he's still got some legitimacy as a three point shooter.

I think Pop values that sort of security/certainty quite a bit in a 12-15 guy and I think it would take something pretty compelling for him to choose someone over Bonner to fill one of those spots.

[Ditty]

That's not the Real Skip Bayless :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

After the OKC series in 2014, bonner gets a forever pass for me tbh

[coachmac87]

Who cares? If Butler or Bonner sees any time in the playoffs other than a blowout we're in trouble.

This. In reality it shouldn't matter who gets cut. Sure we'd fine ways to care but bottom line neither should be relied upon. Simmons being a possibility is what has me and most Spurs fans thinking. Yes he probably won't contribute this year but unlike Butler or Bonner he has at least some future going forward in the NBA with or without the Spurs. Now it's not determined yet how big of a future that is but he has some upside.

Just wouldn't make sense for Spurs to quit on Simmons

[J_Paco]

The thing that weighs heavily in Bonner's favor is that he's shown on a number of occasions that he can just be plugged in and will at least be in the position he's supposed to be in and will give an effort to do what he's supposed to do. Bonner frustrates Spurs fans, largely (I think) because there was a time when the composition of the roster required him to do more than he was actually capable of doing; he's clearly not the most talented (or athletic) guy and he seems to wilt in the spotlight of big moments, which is also frustrating. But over the long haul, Matt has been able to step in, even if he hasn't played in a while, and at least be credible both because of his understanding of what the defense is supposed to do and because he's still got some legitimacy as a three point shooter.

I think Pop values that sort of security/certainty quite a bit in a 12-15 guy and I think it would take something pretty compelling for him to choose someone over Bonner to fill one of those spots.

Basically, bye bye either Simmons or Butler. The only issue with that sound opinion is that Matt is barely a NBA player at the stage of his career. For everything that he brings from an intangibles aspect is nullified when he brings very, very little from actual production. All three players have their flaws, but Matt has the most glaring one's.

Unfortunately, your grounded but more sentimental based reasoning will probably win out. Sucks that we may lose a solid veteran or a hungry, athletic player just to keep Matt's token "team guy" around.

[Mnky]

If pop just knows he's going to use Bonner in then playoffs, I could see a chance. I don't think you cut the guys who can run though. And Butler and Simmons are better at that pace which is what teams like the thunder clippers and dubs do.Simmons can be developed. Usually players reach a peak, but he hasn't had much high level coaching TBH and the little he had in Austin, he grew with. He has also grown with the spurs. He also plays well with your young guys and isn't exactly old. I don't see him being cut unless he was doing something specific pop didn't want him to do. Him, much like Kyle and other players who don't see the court much(which is where you really learn) have consistently gotten better despite Spurfan always saying they wouldn't. I think daye and Ayers left insecurities in some posters tbh.

[BillMc]

The thing that weighs heavily in Bonner's favor is that he's shown on a number of occasions that he can just be plugged in and will at least be in the position he's supposed to be in and will give an effort to do what he's supposed to do. Bonner frustrates Spurs fans, largely (I think) because there was a time when the composition of the roster required him to do more than he was actually capable of doing; he's clearly not the most talented (or athletic) guy and he seems to wilt in the spotlight of big moments, which is also frustrating. But over the long haul, Matt has been able to step in, even if he hasn't played in a while, and at least be credible both because of his understanding of what the defense is supposed to do and because he's still got some legitimacy as a three point shooter.

I think Pop values that sort of security/certainty quite a bit in a 12-15 guy and I think it would take something pretty compelling for him to choose someone over Bonner to fill one of those spots.

Well said.

There also might be a team outlook perspective. It's one thing to cut a longterm verteran over the summer or in training camp when he clearly doesn't have it anymore. But Matty has been with the team a long time and is very well-liked. It's not like cutting one of the Big 3, but there would be a bit of a risk of it affecting the whole "Spurs family" thing. Normally, of course, business is business, but this isn't the beginning of the season or over the summer, and I wonder if Pop believes cutting a well-liked team regular might hurt morale. Especially, if you were to ask the question "Who of Bonner, Butler, and Simmons" is least likely to help ups win a championship this year. A case could be made that person is Simmons, a guy whose subtraction probably won't affect team morale much either (though he does seem to have become buddies with LMA).

Yeah, I'm over analyzing this I know. But hey, its Spurstalk.

[Chinook]

It's not even about hope with Simmons. It's about having a cheap guy if you want to use cap space next season, or having a guy at all if you don't have cap space.

[FromWayDowntown]

There also might be a team outlook perspective. It's one thing to cut a longterm verteran over the summer or in training camp when he clearly doesn't have it anymore. But Matty has been with the team a long time and is very well-liked. It's not like cutting one of the Big 3, but there would be a bit of a risk of it affecting the whole "Spurs family" thing. Normally, of course, business is business, but this isn't the beginning of the season or over the summer, and I wonder if Pop believes cutting a well-liked team regular might hurt morale.

At this point, there wouldn't really be anywhere for Matt to go in the short term. I doubt anyone will sign him for just the last 20 games of this season and I also doubt that he'd be likely to draw a multi-season offer from any club. If it's Matt who is waived, I also think the speculation that he'll simply transition to the front office or a coaching position is pretty well-founded, which would mean that even if he on the roster, he'd remain close to the team, which would offset any psychic loss waiving him might cause.

I'm also less concerned about that because this is a pretty tough-minded bunch for the most part. If they didn't break after Game 6 a few years ago, I don't know that anything mental will really be an issue for them.

[DPG21920]

If Bonner is healthy and gets minutes I agree w Chinook that he's no longer a no brainer. It's just that w his injuries and looking done when he did play he didn't appear to be a basketball asset

[BatManu20]

706885458672926725

[Darius Bieber]

706885458672926725

Looks like we won't know until Wednesday when the Spurs come back home.

[NASpurs]

Spurs are just saving money on Martin’s plane ticket to San Antonio. They'll give him a ride seeing as tomorrow's game is in Minny.

It would be fucking crazy if he played in tomorrow's game against Minny. :lol

[Chinook]

If Bonner is healthy and gets minutes I agree w Chinook that he's no longer a no brainer. It's just that w his injuries and looking done when he did play he didn't appear to be a basketball asset

Maybe Bonner needed some time away from the team to get back into a good physical form. Even though he was focusing on his hamstring, the whole body gets to heal when you're not traveling or practicing. And if you aren't bound by the NBA schedule it's easier to do therapy and build strength. I'm not willing to say Bonner is better now than he was before, but he could be. He was moving awfully well out there. And while Butler offers a lot defensively off the ball, Bonner is much better there than people realize, especially on the ball.

Add in the fact that he's the only big who can shoot the three (even if you include Kyle and Rasual in there, Matt's the best by a long shot), and you have a real conundrum. Simmons may not be safe after all.

[SpursforSix]

Maybe Bonner needed some time away from the team to get back into a good physical form. Even though he was focusing on his hamstring, the whole body gets to heal when you're not traveling or practicing. And if you aren't bound by the NBA schedule it's easier to do therapy and build strength. I'm not willing to say Bonner is better now than he was before, but he could be. He was moving awfully well out there. And while Butler offers a lot defensively off the ball, Bonner is much better there than people realize, especially on the ball.

Add in the fact that he's the only big who can shoot the three (even if you include Kyle and Rasual in there, Matt's the best by a long shot), and you have a real conundrum. Simmons may not be safe after all.

I hope that's not the case. While Simmons isn't a superstar by any means, of those three, I think he has the potential as a high energy guy to come in and change a game. Hopefully, the Spurs won't need that but during the playoffs, you never know. Him coming in and taking it to the hoop could be something they need.

[.G.]

Matt Bonner Basketball! may be here to stay afterall. I always liked that lil niggz, with his T-Rex trot/jog up and down the court, moves well without the ball, finds open spaces, good IQ, always puts his arms straight up in the air when defending against drives, always gives Matt Bonner Basketball! effort, makes Pop happy and he sweats nicely, too. It's all bout dem intangibles. Would also love to see him dunk again.

If this is the last hurrah at a title with this core, then maybe Pop sticks with what he knows and feels comfortable with.

[.G.]

Can't forget about dat corporate knowledge Matt Bonner Basketball! possesses.

[Chinook]

I hope that's not the case. While Simmons isn't a superstar by any means, of those three, I think he has the potential as a high energy guy to come in and change a game. Hopefully, the Spurs won't need that but during the playoffs, you never know. Him coming in and taking it to the hoop could be something they need.

While he has more energy than Martin, Kevin is probably a superior driver. And he's obviously an elite foul-drawer. I can definitely see Simmons' having a Joseph/Ibaka moment, but I can also totally see Martin having a Jack/OKC moment if the team needs him. It's not an easy decision. I didn't want anyone cut at the beginning of the year. And I don't want any cut now if Bonner is in good shape, though I'd still move him over Martin if push came to shove.

[coachmac87]

Maybe Bonner needed some time away from the team to get back into a good physical form. Even though he was focusing on his hamstring, the whole body gets to heal when you're not traveling or practicing. And if you aren't bound by the NBA schedule it's easier to do therapy and build strength. I'm not willing to say Bonner is better now than he was before, but he could be. He was moving awfully well out there. And while Butler offers a lot defensively off the ball, Bonner is much better there than people realize, especially on the ball.

Add in the fact that he's the only big who can shoot the three (even if you include Kyle and Rasual in there, Matt's the best by a long shot), and you have a real conundrum. Simmons may not be safe after all.


I think people are looking way too much into this. Why give up on Simmons?

[SpursforSix]

While he has more energy than Martin, Kevin is probably a superior driver. And he's obviously an elite foul-drawer. I can definitely see Simmons' having a Joseph/Ibaka moment, but I can also totally see Martin having a Jack/OKC moment if the team needs him. It's not an easy decision. I didn't want anyone cut at the beginning of the year. And I don't want any cut now if Bonner is in good shape, though I'd still move him over Martin if push came to shove.

You lost me. Move Bonner over Martin? Or did you mean Simmons there at the end.

[Chinook]

I think people are looking way too much into this. Why give up on Simmons?

Butler is better now (please tell me you're not going to argue this), and Simmons doesn't have a ton of upside. Plus Martin actually plays his position.

[Chinook]

You lost me. Move Bonner over Martin? Or did you mean Simmons there at the end.

Bonner.

[BatManu20]

706896348596015104

706896770471743490

[ceperez]

Anybody making the argument that Simmons needs to get cut is just trolling.

[coachmac87]

Butler is better now (please tell me you're not going to argue this), and Simmons doesn't have a ton of upside. Plus Martin actually plays his position.

No argument to be made. Martin > Butler.

But it just doesn't make sense why they'd let Simmons walk...when neither Butler or Bonner have pretty much ZERO chance of making a difference next year. While Simmons has upside even though it could be limited

[will_spurs]

Anybody making the argument that Simmons needs to get cut is just trolling.

It's not about "needs". Bonner is corporate, big, and still potentially useful down the road. Butler was signed with the playoffs in mind, and I don't see the spurs leaving him on the side of the road like that. Simmons is at the same time too young and too old, brings little now and has little upside. I say Simmons gets cut.

[NASpurs]

A guy like Simmons is still too wet behind the ears and will ride the bench throughout the playoffs due to his inexperience. Pop won't be scared to use guys like Bonner and Butler in the playoffs if he needs to use them for whatever situation arises their need to be on the court. If the team is really in a "win now" mode, then Simmons becomes expendable.

[coachmac87]

It's not about "needs". Bonner is corporate, big, and still potentially useful down the road. Butler was signed with the playoffs in mind, and I don't see the spurs leaving him on the side of the road like that. Simmons is at the same time too young and too old, brings little now and has little upside. I say Simmons gets cut.

Simmons has produced more than both Butler and Bonner combined this year. Yes as of RIGHT NOW Simmons seems to be in the dog house but it's not like Butler has been amazing. He's been "ok" at best.

[TheDoctor]

:lmao jeff ayres

706913176491655168
:lobt2:

[timtonymanu]

Simmons is already 26 years old. What upside does he have at this point? If he was around the same age as Kyle, I wouldn't mind keeping him on the team. And if it was between Butler and Simmons, I trust Butler more.

[coachmac87]

Simmons is already 26 years old. What upside does he have at this point? If he was around the same age as Kyle, I wouldn't mind keeping him on the team. And if it was between Butler and Simmons, I trust Butler more.

A 26yr old player has more upside than ANY 35yr old player. Age isn't the factor with Simmons upside. It's his inexperience..

[timtonymanu]

A 26yr old player has more upside than ANY 35yr old player. Age isn't the factor with Simmons upside. It's his inexperience..

The team is in win mode now. Butler can contribute more now than Simmons can.

[DPG21920]

My vote is for:

Bonner (if what we've seen is it)
Simmons
Butler

If Bonner is healthy and no lingering issues:

Simmons
Butler
Bonner

[coachmac87]

The team is in win mode now. Butler can contribute more now than Simmons can.

Well that's why they're signing Martin. People are literally freaking out over inactive players. Simmons can still bring value this year and next year...something you can't say about Bonner or Butler

[Chinook]

A 26yr old player has more upside than ANY 35yr old player. Age isn't the factor with Simmons upside. It's his inexperience..

The dude is older than Ibaka (reportedly) is.

[timtonymanu]

Well that's why they're signing Martin. People are literally freaking out over inactive players. Simmons can still bring value this year and next year...something you can't say about Bonner or Butler

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

[BillMc]

706913176491655168
:lobt2:

They should seriously pickup Matty if we release him. Yeah, he's not playoff eligible but the rest of the season could be an extended tryout. He's better than Ayres and may finally give them some of the outside shooting they never seem to have.

[coachmac87]

If Simmons gets cut its going to be because he didn't work hard enough of to become a better player. Whether that's listening to coaching orders, player development or lack of being a pro. It's not going to be because of his talent.

[coachmac87]

The dude is older than Ibaka (reportedly) is.

So what. Doesn't mean he can't get better..Age only factors in your peak of production window.

[DPG21920]

News coming soon

[Chinook]

So what. Doesn't mean he can't get better..Age only factors in your peak of production window.

I mean, it doesn't. Is that what you tell your players? Simmons can totally get better. But he's not likely to get appreciably better in terms of his mechanics. And even if he does, it's not like the end result is anything but a rotational wing. The dude didn't even dominate the d-league. His talent is overrated.

[jermaine]

Simmons just doesn't seems like a player who'd be in a Spurs uniform for more than a season or half a season. I think he's getting cut.... Pop loves vets an both Bonner an Butler are vets... Everyone says the Spurs window is now, so I don't see Pop getting rid of experience over talent for yrs down the line/a project in Simmons.

[Nathan89]

Can't wait for the lineup of: LMA, Kawhi, Green, Martin, Manu

[benefactor]

Man coach and #ceperez are going to melt down hard when Simmons gets the axe.:lol

[SpursFan86]

706918587538104320

Looks like we'll be hearing something fairly soon...

[coachmac87]

I mean, it doesn't. Is that what you tell your players? Simmons can totally get better. But he's not likely to get appreciably better in terms of his mechanics. And even if he does, it's not like the end result is anything but a rotational wing. The dude didn't even dominate the d-league. His talent is overrated.

You just don't get it. Instead of mocking me try to listen to what I'm saying.

There's nothing wrong being a rotation wing.

Spurs have the player development coaching to improve his mechanics and I would expect it to happen this summer. But the kid may not love the game and may not enjoy the hard work to become a better player. Not everybody does..

Simmons has the physical tools. It's what the Spurs has seen and it's what everybody's seen since he's been here. He just needs more time and the experience he's got this year will be huge for him. Spurs just can't afford to have him learning on the fly anymore right now..

But at the same time it doesn't mean you cut him and lose his rights. I'm intrigued to see what Chad and Chip can do over the summer with Simmons but like I said earlier..the guy may not have the drive in him.

[coachmac87]

Man coach and #ceperez are going to melt down hard when Simmons gets the axe.:lol

I won't lose sleep over it. You can bet he's going straight to Brooklyn though if he is

[timtonymanu]

Man coach and #ceperez are going to melt down hard when Simmons gets the axe.:lol

If I were an NBA player, I'd be afraid of #ceperez. Every player he bandwagons doesn't last on the Spurs (Gary Neal, Austin Daye, Simmons etc.)

[BillMc]

I won't lose sleep over it. You can bet he's going straight to Brooklyn though if he is

Not for me. No sleep till Brooklyn.

[timtonymanu]

706918587538104320

Looks like we'll be hearing something fairly soon...

Here we go

[Chinook]

You just don't get it. Instead of mocking me try to listen to what I'm saying.

Let's do this.


There's nothing wrong being a rotation wing.

Not at all. They're just not so hard to find that you lose sleep cutting some who MIGHT become one, especially when you have multiple prospects in the pipeline.


Spurs have the player development coaching to improve his mechanics and I would expect it to happen this summer.

Have they taught anyone to dribble. Because Green was a workout warrior when he was a fringe player, and he sure didn't learn.


But the kid may not love the game and may not enjoy the hard work to become a better player. Not everybody does..

While it's a possibility, I don't think it's fair to attribute that to Simmons. The dude wouldn't have made it this far if he didn't have determination. Look at a guy like Ryan Richards. Richards is easily more talented than Simmons, and he'll never sniff the NBA (though he's also younger than Jonathon).


Simmons has the physical tools. It's what the Spurs has seen and it's what everybody's seen since he's been here.

He has athleticism, with for the love of god is not rare in the NBA. If you're going to pull a Mid and consider talent and athleticism a one-to-one be my guest. But Simmons would have an awful 2K rating in most stats.


He just needs more time and the experience he's got this year will be huge for him. Spurs just can't afford to have him learning on the fly anymore right now..

They could totally let him keep playing without fear of compromising their playoff positioning. Issue is he's widely been a dumpster fire when he's on the court. He went from being Summer League Manu to Malik Hairston in like a two-week span. Anderson has clearly surpassed him, because unlike Simmons, Kyle still has a ton of upside left.


But at the same time it doesn't mean you cut him and lose his rights.

I don't think they should cut him, but I'm also not concerned about keeping his rights. The way Simmons is playing make you wonder if signing Eddie or Orlando Johnson would have been a better move if you wanted an older prospect. I'm all in favor of giving him a summer to get better. But he's not really part of my vision of the team's future right now.


I'm intrigued to see what Chad and Chip can do over the summer with Simmons but like I said earlier..the guy may not have the drive in him.

It almost seems like you're trying to build a safety net at this point. Simmons may try as hard as he can and still not be good enough. It's not simply about ganas with him. He's not a potential Eddie Curry or Anthony Randolph here. He's much closer to a JaMychal Green.

[coachmac87]

Let's do this.



Not at all. They're just not so hard to find that you lose sleep cutting some who MIGHT become one, especially when you have multiple prospects in the pipeline.



Have they taught anyone to dribble. Because Green was a workout warrior when he was a fringe player, and he sure didn't learn.



While it's a possibility, I don't think it's fair to attribute that to Simmons. The dude wouldn't have made it this far if he didn't have determination. Look at a guy like Ryan Richards. Richards is easily more talented than Simmons, and he'll never sniff the NBA (though he's also younger than Jonathon).



He has athleticism, with for the love of god is not rare in the NBA. If you're going to pull a Mid and consider talent and athleticism a one-to-one be my guest. But Simmons would have an awful 2K rating in most stats.



They could totally let him keep playing without fear of compromising their playoff positioning. Issue is he's widely been a dumpster fire when he's on the court. He went from being Summer League Manu to Malik Hairston in like a two-week span. Anderson has clearly surpassed him, because unlike Simmons, Kyle still has a ton of upside left.



I don't think they should cut him, but I'm also not concerned about keeping his rights. The way Simmons is playing make you wonder if signing Eddie or Orlando Johnson would have been a better move if you wanted an older prospect. I'm all in favor of giving him a summer to get better. But he's not really part of my vision of the team's future right now.



It almost seems like you're trying to build a safety net at this point. Simmons may try as hard as he can and still not be good enough. It's not simply about ganas with him. He's not a potential Eddie Curry or Anthony Randolph here. He's much closer to a JaMychal Green.



Bottom line Simmons was a "prospect" and still is a "prospect" 60 games with inconsistent playing time isn't enough to determine what he's capable of.

[Chinook]

Bottom line Simmons was a "prospect" and still is a "prospect" 60 games with inconsistent playing time isn't enough to determine what he's capable of.

I know. But that doesn't mean that you don't get a sense of what his ceiling is. Can you be wrong? Yes. But there are too many guys who can jump out of the gym while being sub-par at a ton of other things that it's not worth freaking out over what if. And yes, Simmons isn't "just" athleticism, so he's not as bad of a prospect as a guy who has no NBA skill. But his age knocks him down almost as many point as he gained.

[K...]

This could all be moot if the announcement is imminent but can someone tell me what Simmons brings that an average late first round pick can't do? Simmons is nice, but he's not essential our unique. KA is pretty unique. You can't cut him. But an athletic wing who can drive seems pretty common. The key is getting a guy who drives, pays defense, passes, and shoots the three. Simmons does only two of those. Id rather we start over on developing parkers replacement and accept KA as a Manu replacement.


But any discussion of next year is way less important than this year.

[coachmac87]

I
I know. But that doesn't mean that you don't get a sense of what his ceiling is. Can you be wrong? Yes. But there are too many guys who can jump out of the gym while being sub-par at a ton of other things that it's not worth freaking out over what if. And yes, Simmons isn't "just" athleticism, so he's not as bad of a prospect as a guy who has no NBA skill. But his age knocks him down almost as many point as he gained.



Yeah but the problem is Bonner or Butler isn't that player..they're almost out of the league and can't grow as a player.

[Spur|n|Austin]

I'm guessing we aren't going to see him in a uni tonight either?

[Chinook]

Yeah but the problem is Bonner or Butler isn't that player..they're almost out of the league and can't grow as a player.

But they're both better than Simmons. And it's possible that Simmons won't ever be better than them.

[loveforthegame]

I'm guessing he'll join the team tomorrow. No need to waive anyone until after the game in case they're needed.

[look_at_g_shred]

But they're both better than Simmons. And it's possible that Simmons won't ever be better than them.
What's the point if neither rarely play in the first place?

[BillMc]

I'm guessing he'll join the team tomorrow. No need to waive anyone until after the game in case they're needed.

Waiving someone on the road seems cold. What do they do fly home commercial? Sit in the hotel during the second game and have an awkward flight on the team plane?

[TXstbobcat]

Waiving someone on the road seems cold. What do they do fly home commercial? Sit in the hotel during the second game and have an awkward flight on the team plane?

Nah, they will buy Bonner a greyhound bus ticket back to San Antonio.

[Chinook]

What's the point if neither rarely play in the first place?

Because there's no reason to worry about Simmons' potential right now. Honestly, the team didn't NEED a Martin in the first place. But since they've committed to him, they have to figure out who to cut. And Simmons is in play, even if it's not likely.

[Old School 44]

Waiving someone on the road seems cold. What do they do fly home commercial? Sit in the hotel during the second game and have an awkward flight on the team plane? He won't get waived. He will announce his retirement immediately, and they'll announce simultaneously that he will be joining the Spurs coaching staff or front office. Nice contrast from the Black Mamba's retirement to the Red Mamba's retirement.

[urunobili]

Hope it's Bonner out though Simmons video celebrating Ray Allen's shot and the money he'll command in free agency wouldn't make me cry if he gets cut...

[$pursDynasty]

Does Messina play the heck out of the player to be cut tonight since we have a back to back and won't have to worry about that player being tired tomorrow or for the rest of the season?

[loveforthegame]

Waiving someone on the road seems cold. What do they do fly home commercial? Sit in the hotel during the second game and have an awkward flight on the team plane?

I really don't know. Is there a right time to waive someone? I think it would suck either way.

I'm just going by that report he's deal is near completion and he could join the team as soon as tomorrow.

[BillMc]

Does Messina play the heck out of the player to be cut tonight since we have a back to back and won't have to worry about that player being tired tomorrow or for the rest of the season?

Bonner's 48 minutes of glory. :lol

[BillMc]

He won't get waived. He will announce his retirement immediately, and they'll announce simultaneously that he will be joining the Spurs coaching staff or front office. Nice contrast from the Black Mamba's retirement to the Red Mamba's retirement.

That would be a good way to do it. :toast

[coachmac87]

But they're both better than Simmons. And it's possible that Simmons won't ever be better than them.

Won't ever as in this year? Maybe

Next year? Either one or both could be retired or out of the league.

I just don't see either be so meaningful this season (especially Bonner) that's you just quit on Simmons. Whatever the Spurs saw in him they were right..some can even say Simmons has out played his expectations as s D/League scrub.

[FromWayDowntown]

Because there's no reason to worry about Simmons' potential right now. Honestly, the team didn't NEED a Martin in the first place. But since they've committed to him, they have to figure out who to cut. And Simmons is in play, even if it's not likely.

I've said it before, but there isn't a long game for these Spurs right now. The issue is winning in the next 3 months and figuring things out again after you've come to the end of that run, at whatever point it ends. I hope Jonathan Simmons stays -- because he's a wing, because he's youthful and athletic, and I think he makes more sense than either Butler or Bonner. But if he leaves, it will be because the Spurs have decided that their best play to get through June 2016 is with Martin and without Simmons.

Potential is great and all, but Simmons isn't likely to be transformative for the Spurs (or even, really, much more than a guy with basically average replacement value). He's exciting compared to most of the roster, but in the end, his greatest likelihood as an NBA player is that he's just a guy.

In the early stages of the Duncan Spurs, the choice between winning now, on one hand, and development, on the other hand, was much more of a reasonable debate. Now, there's no question that everything has to be in win-now mode and personnel choices have to be made in light of that.

As one of the old hands of SpursTalk (GhostWriter) would say: Win Now, Worry Later.

I'd add that while I think Boban is intriguing, I could see a line of reasoning by which the Spurs kept Simmons, Butler, and Bonner, and released Boban, since their path through the playoffs -- for now, PRT, OKC, GST -- seems unlikely to create much of a need for a player with Boban's size and skills. I don't think they will release Boban and I'm not advocating for it; I'm just saying that it wouldn't completely shock me if that's where the Spurs went.

[DPG21920]

Losing Boban, with how productive he's been (especially with Bonner injured most of the year) would be absolutely shocking to me.

[SAGirl]

Not for me. No sleep till Brooklyn.
Easy to guard, will quickly turn the ball over or predictably force the action.
Will be easy for our guys to draw fouls on him too TBH.

[Mugen]

Losing an asset like Boban (with value around the league) for essentially a washed up Kevin Martin would be one of the dumbest things the front office has done in recent memory tbh.

[SAGirl]

What Chinook said is true, Simmons is nice to keep bc his contract us low, yes he can become serviceable but it's about having a body to back up Manu again if he returns next season. In that light, even without getting into discussions about potential and what not, he has value to be kept, but he's not irreplaceable or indispensable and he doesn't move the needle this season. Whereas the other two are veterans with a niche and will not come in making costly mistakes.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Losing Boban, with how productive he's been (especially with Bonner injured most of the year) would be absolutely shocking to me.
Yeah. It's not as if he's been a big stiff who can't do shit if he's not given an open dunk or something. He has a soft touch, grabs boards well, and makes free throws at a decent clip such that hacking isn't an option as it was with Shitter. Boban has his rookie mistakes as well as some limitations, but I think most of these are solvable with practice and experience considering his relatively good mobility and endurance for his height. Needs to work on sealing his man earlier in the possession on offense and not coming out too far on defense. He's hard to score against when he positions himself well on defense, as even Cousins saw the other day (Cousins had a field day against West and Diaw, though).


The guy Boban has had his greatest struggles against this year is Alex Len, for some reason.

[cjw]

NOBODY is giving you a 1st for 27 year old jonathan simmons. NOONE.

Right, maybe a sweetener to move up a few spots if needed from 29 (or 30!).

[FromWayDowntown]

Losing an asset like Boban (with value around the league) for essentially a washed up Kevin Martin would be one of the dumbest things the front office has done in recent memory tbh.

Like I say, I don't think that's what will happen. I'm just saying I could see a line of reasoning that would lead to that, mostly because there are situations in which Boban might not be playable. He's a useful piece for the long haul of a regular season, but unless you run into a team like Houston with a true center like Howard, I'm not sure that he's anything more than a situational guy in most NBA playoff series.

With that said, I agree that it wouldn't be the best move for the Spurs at this point.

[ironman2886]

I'm guessing this will be what Pop might say after cutting Bonner.


http://youtu.be/JghkG4WydNk

[ace3g]

I guess Spurs told Kevin Martin to stay in Minnesota and they will pick him up there.

[Leetonidas]

Simmons is trash. STers over the years always have a fascination with trash players who have some decent games thinking if only the Spurs played them more...De colo, Blair, daye, or whoever.....in reality Simmons at 26 is already at his athletic peak and is probably close to as good as he is going to be. He's not Manu Ginobili. Yeah he has some nice monkeyball skills and Spurs have never had any flashy dunkers so ST creams over this kinda shit but he's just not that good and doesnt have much upside nor is he going to be anything more than a streaky bench player.

obviously I want the Spurs to cut Bonner instead of anyone else but cutting Simmons wouldn't matter much in the long run. the best thing is that he's on a cheap contract. but really Simmons is mostly a negative out there and when he does well its not like hes the X factor of anything. not a member of his church tbh

[tbdog]

Simmons isn't playing these playoffs, but that is not to say he out of here. He has defensive potentially and has a nba ready body. He has some nice intangibles and how he runs pick n rolls as a sg. What he really needs to do is work with Clip during the off season to create a better shot, whilst working on his handles. With Manu possibly retiring, and Martin won be signed in the off season with us due to dollar reasons, having Simmons next year is very important.

This is between Bonner and Butler. Bonner is the 4th PF, behind LMA, Diaw, and West. He is also our last Center behind all the above mentioned and adding TD and Bobon.
Butler also can be considered the 4th PF, and the 3rd SF, behind Leonard and Anderson (although you can consider Green and Manu also as possible SF.) Butler would be considered the last or second last swingman, tied with Simmons.

Just by Butler performance this year, and his flexibility, you just have to give him the final spot. I just don't see Bonner playing any meaningful minutes behind any of those bigs. Whereas Butler has the chance to take Anderson minutes due to sophomore trust issues that Pop sometimes has.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner is frugal and conscious with money, from everything we have ever heard about him..when he lived in Toronto, he would take the TTC to games:lol

It's not like he needs the money, not sure why he's holding on, he doesn't even play anymore..I guess you can never have enough dough:lol..maybe his wife is forcing him to stick around, tbh..

[HarlemHeat37]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/12/be/4812bebcd0f27a1917d39b5083f43170.jpg

I can buy that she's calling the shots, tbh:lol

[ironman2886]

Bonner is frugal and conscious with money, from everything we have ever heard about him..when he lived in Toronto, he would take the TTC to games:lol

It's not like he needs the money, not sure why he's holding on, he doesn't even play anymore..I guess you can never have enough dough:lol..maybe his wife is forcing him to stick around, tbh..
Not only that, but he's a great Business mind. High IQ. He made his money and will make plenty more even after he hangs them up.

[Mugen]

Like I say, I don't think that's what will happen. I'm just saying I could see a line of reasoning that would lead to that, mostly because there are situations in which Boban might not be playable. He's a useful piece for the long haul of a regular season, but unless you run into a team like Houston with a true center like Howard, I'm not sure that he's anything more than a situational guy in most NBA playoff series.

With that said, I agree that it wouldn't be the best move for the Spurs at this point.

Completely agree about Boban and highly doubt he'll have any impact in the playoffs. It's just that you can basically say the same thing about Bonner.

I just think people are still using logic/reason when it comes to Matty being the likely one cut when that really hasn't applied to him still being on the team for like 3 or 4 years now tbh :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Not only that, but he's a great Business mind. High IQ. He made his money and will make plenty more even after he hangs them up.

It's also virtually guaranteed that he's going to have a FO job if he wants one, too IMO..

[Ditty]

Yeah I always remember seeing Matt at the PacSun at La Cantera during the 2008 playoffs against Phoenix and he was shopping in the clearance section so I wouldn't doubt he's very conservative with his money and wants a really nice retirement one day.

[TDomination]

Bonner is frugal and conscious with money, from everything we have ever heard about him..when he lived in Toronto, he would take the TTC to games:lol

It's not like he needs the money, not sure why he's holding on, he doesn't even play anymore..I guess you can never have enough dough:lol..maybe his wife is forcing him to stick around, tbh..

or maybe he loves playing the game of basketball.

[Kawhitstorm]

Bonner is frugal and conscious with money, from everything we have ever heard about him..when he lived in Toronto, he would take the TTC to games:lol

It's not like he needs the money, not sure why he's holding on, he doesn't even play anymore..I guess you can never have enough dough:lol..maybe his wife is forcing him to stick around, tbh..

It's been confirmed by CoJo: :lol

Cory Joseph recalling Matt Bonner's financial advice:"I had a dollar in my pocket or something,and he said, “Just remember, that dollar is two dollars,it’s just not a dollar because you know when you get paid, you get taxed and you have all these expenses. You spend that dollar, that’s two dollars.” (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Off-Topic-conversation-Cory-Joseph-6694904.php) (mysanantonio.com (https://www.reddit.com/domain/mysanantonio.com/))


https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3x7lfz/cory_joseph_recalling_matt_bonners_financial/?

[Texas_Ranger]

ljMpmG-5Yrk

[HarlemHeat37]

or maybe he loves playing the game of basketball.

Of course, but he doesn't even play anymore:lol

[BillMc]

Of course, but he doesn't even play anymore:lol

Maybe he loves getting paid to have great seats to 82 NBA games + playoffs every year. You know any of us would. :lol

[Chinook]

I've said it before, but there isn't a long game for these Spurs right now. The issue is winning in the next 3 months and figuring things out again after you've come to the end of that run, at whatever point it ends. I hope Jonathan Simmons stays -- because he's a wing, because he's youthful and athletic, and I think he makes more sense than either Butler or Bonner. But if he leaves, it will be because the Spurs have decided that their best play to get through June 2016 is with Martin and without Simmons.

Potential is great and all, but Simmons isn't likely to be transformative for the Spurs (or even, really, much more than a guy with basically average replacement value). He's exciting compared to most of the roster, but in the end, his greatest likelihood as an NBA player is that he's just a guy.

In the early stages of the Duncan Spurs, the choice between winning now, on one hand, and development, on the other hand, was much more of a reasonable debate. Now, there's no question that everything has to be in win-now mode and personnel choices have to be made in light of that.

As one of the old hands of SpursTalk (GhostWriter) would say: Win Now, Worry Later.

I'd add that while I think Boban is intriguing, I could see a line of reasoning by which the Spurs kept Simmons, Butler, and Bonner, and released Boban, since their path through the playoffs -- for now, PRT, OKC, GST -- seems unlikely to create much of a need for a player with Boban's size and skills. I don't think they will release Boban and I'm not advocating for it; I'm just saying that it wouldn't completely shock me if that's where the Spurs went.

I don't think they're THAT negligent of the future. There's clearly life after Duncan now, and it doesn't make a ton of sense to get rid of a guy who could at least be an asset in the off-season for a guy who probably shouldn't even be in the regular rotation. It's the same reason why Simmons shouldn't get cut but stronger, because Boban has significantly higher value.

I agree that the Spurs shouldn't worry too much about Simmons, but I understand why such lack of foresight could be wrong-headed. It reminds me of the rumored Danny Green/Josh Howard trade. The differences are that Green was a younger and semi-established player at the time and Howard was on the way down. But the idea of giving up on a guy who seemed replaceable for a better shot to win a title has been prevalent for years. If they believe Simmons can be another Green (which I don't believe), then it doesn't make a ton of sense to move him, even though both were pretty much d-league call-ups.

[Kawhitstorm]

I don't think they're THAT negligent of the future. There's clearly life after Duncan now, and it doesn't make a ton of sense to get rid of a guy who could at least be an asset in the off-season for a guy who probably shouldn't even be in the regular rotation. It's the same reason why Simmons shouldn't get cut but stronger, because Boban has significantly higher value.

I agree that the Spurs shouldn't worry too much about Simmons, but I understand why such lack of foresight could be wrong-headed. It reminds me of the rumored Danny Green/Josh Howard trade. The differences are that Green was a younger and semi-established player at the time and Howard was on the way down. But the idea of giving up on a guy who seemed replaceable for a better shot to win a title has been prevalent for years. If they believe Simmons can be another Green (which I don't believe), then it doesn't make a ton of sense to move him, even though both were pretty much d-league call-ups.

Simmons is probably not valued more than the other Green, Jamychal Green (it's just that Simmons already has a 2 yr contract).:lol

[apalisoc_9]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/12/be/4812bebcd0f27a1917d39b5083f43170.jpg

I can buy that she's calling the shots, tbh:lol

Bonner never striked me as a guy that would marry a tattoed bitch...damn

[beirmeistr]

Maybe he loves getting paid to have great seats to 82 NBA games + playoffs every year. You know any of us would. :lol

that is a great argument

[dabom]

Losing Boban, with how productive he's been (especially with Bonner injured most of the year) would be absolutely shocking to me.

Spurs are not losing Boban. :lmao

[will_spurs]

that is a great argument

He'll still get access to that as an assistant coach, though.

[beirmeistr]

He'll still get access to that as an assistant coach, though.

an equally great argument

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs taking their time trying to waive Bonner lmfao

[T Park]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/12/be/4812bebcd0f27a1917d39b5083f43170.jpg

I can buy that she's calling the shots, tbh:lol


Man have I got some great Bonner his wife and kid in the whole foods shopping stories...

[tholdren]

But they're both better than Simmons. And it's possible that Simmons won't ever be better than them.
no - they have more experience than simmons.

[tholdren]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/12/be/4812bebcd0f27a1917d39b5083f43170.jpg

I can buy that she's calling the shots, tbh:lol
Money talks

[loveforthegame]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/spurs-sign-kevin-martin

He'll wear #23

[BatManu20]

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