Should KMart get some Green minutes when we need more offense, tbh?

[ElNono]

I think he's an ideal guy to have out there when you can hide two players on defense... he's a guy that can shoot the 3 and also very good at driving and flopping for freebies...

Obviously, this is besides being Manu insurance if he gets in foul trouble or hurt...

[Robz4000]

I think the real question here is if he should start for Green tbh.

[coachmac87]

Yes

[SpursFan86]

Ehh, depends on the matchup, but for the most part I'd say no. I hope Pop doesn't overplay Martin like he sometimes did with Belinelli.

Like you said, if the opposing team has a weak lineup out with a few guys you can hide him on, sure. But if we're playing GS and Steph/Klay/Iggy are out there, Martin better not be playing :lol

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He's definitely more consistent than Green..

[slick'81]

Lets see what he has left

[K...]

NO. The starting lineup has kawhi and LMA two guys who can grind hard buckets. It's the bench that we want to be open and flowy.

But i guess if yu wanted to play mills at the 2 guard slot martin is fine with those minutes.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

I think the real question here is if he should start for Green tbh.
The answer is no. Need premium defense in the SL

[SpursFan86]

Lets see what he has left

Also this. If he plays like he's played in Minnesota this year, he won't even deserve minutes over KA, much less Green :lol

If it looks like he fits in well here and he plays well for the last month of the season, then we'll see about him getting some extended run in the postseason.

[TheGreatYacht]

Yes. Great back up plan when Danny has one of those 0pts in 33min nights

[DMC]

If he can spot up shoot like Marco, he'll be worth something.

[Robz4000]

The answer is no. Need premium defense in the SL

Guess I should've used blue font?

[HarlemHeat37]

If he has anything left in the tank, he should play the same role that Barbosa plays for the Warriors, which is 10-15 MPG of instant offense off the bench..

The SL is centered around Kawhi and Aldridge, with Parker running the offense and facilitating, since he's useless without the ball(for the most part)..Duncan and Green are only out there to play defense and finish(finish on 3s, in Green's case)..I don't really see how Martin fits with the SL, he has never been a team-oriented scorer or playmaker, he would just take shots away from Leonard and Aldridge..

Despite being mostly a regular season stat-padder that doesn't do anything outside of scoring for his entire career, the signing is a no-brainer since the Spurs aren't losing anything, but I hate it if he plays more than 10-15 MPG..he would be a nice fit with the bench unit, although I hope he has to earn his spot over Kyle..

[ElNono]

Not even saying he should be a starter, tbh... Danny plays quite a bit with the bench sometimes (especially lately)... some of those minutes are mostly what I'm talking about...

[HarlemHeat37]

Not even saying he should be a starter, tbh... Danny plays quite a bit with the bench sometimes (especially lately)... some of those minutes are mostly what I'm talking about...

He'll probably take a minute or 2 from Green, same with Manu IMO, but I think he's mostly going to eat Kyle's minutes(hopefully he has to earn it, though, he has been terrible, this season)..

[SpurPadre]

His defense won't be any worse than Marco's but I wouldn't feel comfortable with him and Mills on the court at the same time against the Dubs...except if Kawhi is still on the court. Pop will make great use of him, though.

[BOHOLANO#21]

Martin would fit in Beli's spot that Anderson and Simmons unable to do...another shooter!

[MoSpur]

Yes, yes, and yes!!!!!!

Oh and yes!!!!

[SAGirl]

I am starting to think Nono is trolling on every take not involving Manu TBH....

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Competent NBA people have referred to Martin as the worst defensive player in the NBA.

[Chinook]

I am starting to think Nono is trolling on every take not involving Manu TBH....

The CoM and CoG battle lines run deep after six years.

To answer your question, Nono, if Martin is playing well and Green isn't, you give Kevin the minutes. Simple as that. There are going to be games were that happens, and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing that matter is that if Green is playing well in a big moment, that Pop doesn't keep Martin in there instead.

[SAGirl]

He'll probably take a minute or 2 from Green, same with Manu IMO, but I think he's mostly going to eat Kyle's minutes(hopefully he has to earn it, though, he has been terrible, this season)..
If Pop is all about winning this season as he's shown he will play the guys that will lead us to a win no matter who it is.

The bad aspect of this signing so late in the season is that now Pop will have to play him to give him a chance to earn the spot, gel and see if he still has the stroke and we are already nearing a tough part of the season. Normally all this testing would be done earlier.

It could even affect Manu getting his own rhythm back bc now it's not just Miller but Martin changing dynamics. New teammates this late in the season alter chemistry a lot.

Tbh I have a bad feeling about this one. Specially if we waive Butler and this guy starts playing Marco level defense and getting away with it.

[ElNono]

The CoM and CoG battle lines run deep after six years.

To answer your question, Nono, if Martin is playing well and Green isn't, you give Kevin the minutes. Simple as that. There are going to be games were that happens, and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing that matter is that if Green is playing well in a big moment, that Pop doesn't keep Martin in there instead.

Yeah, I think primarily he'll take fathead/simms minutes, but I can see Pop "looking for more offense"... especially on the road... like I said, doesn't mean he has to start or take Danny's role, but against certain matchups and on nights that Danny is ice cold, it's a nice option to have...

[Chinook]

Yeah, I think primarily he'll take fathead/simms minutes, but I can see Pop "looking for more offense"... especially on the road... like I said, doesn't mean he has to start or take Danny's role, but against certain matchups and on nights that Danny is ice cold, it's a nice option to have...

Yeah, as I told Brazil, I'm totally in favor of the team using Martin that way. The dude is much more of a scorer than he is a spot-up shooter. And there are going to be nights where the team needs that, ESPECIALLY when Kawhi sits. And having him on the team gives the Spurs yet another small-ball guy to throw at GS. And he should have the name-recognition to draw more attention than Butler or Anderson would.

My only concern now is figuring out who is going to be inactive most games. If Bonner is cut, then I assume Simmons is mostly inactive. But who else? Boban? I think that'd be risky. Anderson? Seems almost sacrilegious at this point. Miller? Should be, but Pop usually likes to keep three PGs active, and Miller might feel slighted after just signing on.

[spurtech09]

K-Martin has better ball handles and can drive to the rim.......Danny Green can't....Danny Green has better defense.....

[james evans]

yes. cuz green wants to sit at that damn 3 pont line for open 3's all game. Green is fucking horrible this season. wtf man. His defense sucks this year and he can't hit an open jump shot consistently . What use is there for him against golden state??

[SAGirl]

Yeah, as I told Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466), I'm totally in favor of the team using Martin that way. The dude is much more of a scorer than he is a spot-up shooter. And there are going to be nights where the team needs that, ESPECIALLY when Kawhi sits. And having him on the team gives the Spurs yet another small-ball guy to throw at GS. And he should have the name-recognition to draw more attention than Butler or Anderson would.

My only concern now is figuring out who is going to be inactive most games. If Bonner is cut, then I assume Simmons is mostly inactive. But who else? Boban? I think that'd be risky. Anderson? Seems almost sacrilegious at this point. Miller? Should be, but Pop usually likes to keep three PGs active, and Miller might feel slighted after just signing on.
Should be Simmons, but it could be Boban too. I don't see either playing in the postseason anyways and Pop has not been shy playing 2 PG together. Although I am not a fan of those lineups. You don't need Simmons as a backup SG at this point. Defensively is where he could have made his mark and Pop has gone away from him for that. He probably needs further development but we are out of time.

Anderson is versatile. The number of positions he can play and the number of lineups he's seen makes him a guy you want dressed just in case, anyone 2-4 is in foul trouble or stinking up the joint, even just in case Martin is terrible. He's also a good candidate to see minutes when shit hits the fan and Pop throws guys out to the fire bc at least he could use that experience. Maybe he finds cojones like Cojo!!!

[ElNono]

Yeah, as I told Brazil, I'm totally in favor of the team using Martin that way. The dude is much more of a scorer than he is a spot-up shooter. And there are going to be nights where the team needs that, ESPECIALLY when Kawhi sits. And having him on the team gives the Spurs yet another small-ball guy to throw at GS. And he should have the name-recognition to draw more attention than Butler or Anderson would.

My only concern now is figuring out who is going to be inactive most games. If Bonner is cut, then I assume Simmons is mostly inactive. But who else? Boban? I think that'd be risky. Anderson? Seems almost sacrilegious at this point. Miller? Should be, but Pop usually likes to keep three PGs active, and Miller might feel slighted after just signing on.

One scenario I think it's plausible, is that as soon as we have the #2 seed locked up, and if we lose 1 or 2 of the games left against GSW, Pop is just going to shut down Tony, Manu and Tim. Not completely, but big bouts of rest. During that time, all of Miller, KMart and Boban are going to have plenty of minutes to show what they have, get acclimated, and allow Pop to make decisions as far as who to count with for a shorter playoff rotation.

Frankly, I don't think Simms, Kyle or Boban have shown they can be thrown into the fire in the playoffs this season, tbh. In that sense, depending how he looks, Martin makes a lot of sense as the backup wing TD21 was talking about all season long. Miller I think it's more like insurance in case Tony or Manu get dinged up (especially the latter, depending on how he looks from here until the playoffs).

[SAGirl]

One scenario I think it's plausible, is that as soon as we have the #2 seed locked up, and if we lose 1 or 2 of the games left against GSW, Pop is just going to shut down Tony, Manu and Tim. Not completely, but big bouts of rest. During that time, all of Miller, KMart and Boban are going to have plenty of minutes to show what they have, get acclimated, and allow Pop to make decisions as far as who to count with for a shorter playoff rotation.

Frankly, I don't think Simms, Kyle or Boban have shown they can be thrown into the fire in the playoffs this season, tbh. In that sense, depending how he looks, Martin makes a lot of sense as the backup wing TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) was talking about all season long. Miller I think it's more like insurance in case Tony or Manu get dinged up (especially the latter, depending on how he looks from here until the playoffs).

You and I disagree on Kyle. That he's already helped win close games we were undermanned in escapes you. I think his defensive versatility will be needed but maybe if we need him per se we are at the point of lost cause. The league is increasingly perimeter based and our bigs except Lma are slumbering and slow much more than Kyle who is deceptive bc he's deliberate on what he does. When was the last time you saw any of those guys on the floor after a loose ball? Probably never. D.west doesnt even box out consistently or grabs a loose ball or rebound that is not in his immediate vecinity. These are all things Kyle has done recently and plays that win you games.

The most alarming decline is Diaw. Don't be a fool to think we would have this record without Kyle. He's not by far the most responsible for it, but on the road to it you needed guys to do very blue collar low usage stuff that ppl take for granted. Get Marco on this team instead of Kyle and I guarantee you we don't have this record.

In fact I am sure a few Teletovichs and Ryan Anderson's of the world already would have dealt us a couple losses without Kyle this season, the kind that made us say WTF last season! and Ryan Anderson did deal us one early in the season where Pop stuck to his bigs and Ryan Anderson killed Boris and every other big. Kyle's development as a perimeter defender option and of mobile "bigs" has allowed us to go 12-1 in the absence of Manu, Tim and Kawhi. Kyle has bailed Boris out defensively a whole lot. Do not think Pop is just being nice Pop and playing him out of charity. Like Manu says Pop is not being nice playing him. He's earned it. The Boris situation should be more alarming to others that take him for granted and if Butler is released with more certainty I assure you Kyle will play. Kyle's role might be more significant in certain scenarios than your 4th wing bc the 4th wing impact is smaller and we have had a winning record with different guys in that role

[Mnky]

If Pop is all about winning this season as he's shown he will play the guys that will lead us to a win no matter who it is.

The bad aspect of this signing so late in the season is that now Pop will have to play him to give him a chance to earn the spot, gel and see if he still has the stroke and we are already nearing a tough part of the season. Normally all this testing would be done earlier.

It could even affect Manu getting his own rhythm back bc now it's not just Miller but Martin changing dynamics. New teammates this late in the season alter chemistry a lot.

Tbh I have a bad feeling about this one. Specially if we waive Butler and this guy starts playing Marco level defense and getting away with it.

Manu makes everyone better. He's a pg in a sg body. Martin will thrive next to him as a cutting option and spot up 3. His defense is better than Kyle or Parker, whose minutes I seek him taking as they're both to inept to guard bigs or legitimate offensive threats. I feel Martin and green may switch areas as pop has played green With the second unit a lot lately.
All n all he's a great pickup for the min. It's a steal to get that talent this late and just adds another dimension. He's a vet, not a young player and has experience coming off the bench and being a spark.

He struggled to leave Minnesota, but decided to for a reason. He wants a ring. He's in the right mindset. He has played very sparingly in Minnesota after starting early with an Injury. He's not going to get intimidated by the big moment like half the spurs team does when they have to create on their own.

[tholdren]

Yes.

[BOHOLANO#21]

Come playoffs time, Simmons and Anderson will be out of the rotation. Martin will come in handy esp in a small ball line up...

[SAGirl]

Manu makes everyone better. He's a pg in a sg body. Martin will thrive next to him as a cutting option and spot up 3. His defense is better than Kyle or Parker, whose minutes I seek him taking as they're both to inept to guard bigs or legitimate offensive threats. I feel Martin and green may switch areas as pop has played green With the second unit a lot lately.
All n all he's a great pickup for the min. It's a steal to get that talent this late and just adds another dimension. He's a vet, not a young player and has experience coming off the bench and being a spark.

He struggled to leave Minnesota, but decided to for a reason. He wants a ring. He's in the right mindset. He has played very sparingly in Minnesota after starting early with an Injury. He's not going to get intimidated by the big moment like half the spurs team does when they have to create on their own.
I think you are highly overrating him. Has only made the playoffs twice in 11 years and has been noted a choker bc his penchant for always looking for the foul call dries up in the postseason. You also highly overrate l him defensively and putting Tony and Kyle in the same sentence on defense is laughable.

you are really trolling on this one.

[itzsoweezee]

Ouch. Dude is basically a scrub

http://twitter.com/winston3453/status/706096366246694912

[SAGirl]

Ouch. Dude is basically a scrub

http://twitter.com/winston3453/status/706096366246694912
Already feel like I am going to puke^^^

He's basically insurance with that stat.

[Mnky]

I think you are highly overrating him. Has only made the playoffs twice in 11 years and has been noted a choker bc his penchant for always looking for the foul call dries up in the postseason. You also highly overrate l him defensively and putting Tony and Kyle in the same sentence on defense is laughable.

you are really trolling on this one.

Not trolling at all. What is over rated? For the min, he's a good deal. How is he not? He's not going to carry a team.. he's going to score off the bench. Maybe start if pop is playing match-up. In hindsight.. anyone who didn't win the championship on a contender is a choker. Think that argument is just silly. Martin moves well off the ball, much like reddick does through screens and backdoor plays. It'll give the spurs someone to run around a defender. Who do you put ahead of him offensively from the spurs bench on the wing TBH?

Maybe I watched the wrong games when it came to defense. His ability to move his feet put him ahead of Kyle and Tony, I could be wrong there. Kyle gets one steal for every 3 open looks he hand's over. Won't win many games that way. I'm one of Kyle's supporters here, but he hurts the team defense huge at times. Against contenders, he won't be able to hide as much. And Tony..well anyone he guards seems like they can't miss .

[tholdren]

Already feel like I am going to puke^^^

He's basically insurance with that stat.

Before you cliff jump - investigate who and where stat came from, then you should probably research the teams that Martin played for. After that, you may want to understand why Spurs went after him. Probably the same reason Spurs went after patty and marco and gary.... Defense.

think twice before clicking "post quick reply"

[SAGirl]

Not trolling at all. What is over rated? For the min, he's a good deal. How is he not? He's not going to carry a team.. he's going to score off the bench. Maybe start if pop is playing match-up. In hindsight.. anyone who didn't win the championship on a contender is a choker. Think that argument is just silly. Martin moves well off the ball, much like reddick does through screens and backdoor plays. It'll give the spurs someone to run around a defender. Who do you put ahead of him offensively from the spurs bench on the wing TBH?

Maybe I watched the wrong games when it came to defense. His ability to move his feet put him ahead of Kyle and Tony, I could be wrong there. Kyle gets one steal for every 3 open looks he hand's over. Won't win many games that way. I'm one of Kyle's supporters here, but he hurts the team defense huge at times. Against contenders, he won't be able to hide as much. And Tony..well anyone he guards seems like they can't miss . one of Kyle's best aspects is team defense, you haven't really been paying attention. Martin is one of the worst SG in the league this season. The absolute worst is Marco.

[SAGirl]

Before you cliff jump - investigate who and where stat came from, then you should probably research the teams that Martin played for. After that, you may want to understand why Spurs went after him. Probably the same reason Spurs went after patty and marco and gary.... Defense.

think twice before clicking "post quick reply"
It's a career stat. It's not a single season stat. Over 11 yrs of the Lord's work he's made his teammates 8 points worse than if he was on the bench. Yikes!

[tholdren]

It's a career stat. It's not a single season stat. Over 11 yrs of the Lord's work he's made his teammates 8 points worse than if he was on the bench. Yikes!
Look at the teams

[Mnky]

one of Kyle's best aspects is team defense, you haven't really been paying attention. Martin is one of the worst SG in the league this season. The absolute worst is Marco.

Whoa. You're favoring that dude way too much. Kyle has the ability to get the job done.. he chooses not to, which is the issue. He's twice as fast on offense as he is on defense. Maybe he's not comfortable yet with the d aide. Not sure, but he definitely has the most break downs on a regular rotation player. And my argument isn't that Martin is going to be good on defensee.. but more so, how bad can you get when you already give up easy baskets where he will be?

[SAGirl]

Whoa. You're favoring that dude way too much. Kyle has the ability to get the job done.. he chooses not to, which is the issue. He's twice as fast on offense as he is on defense. Maybe he's not comfortable yet with the d aide. Not sure, but he definitely has the most break downs on a regular rotation player. And my argument isn't that Martin is going to be good on defensee.. but more so, how bad can you get when you already give up easy baskets where he will be?
POP played him a lot tonight not bc of his scoring at all obviously since he's a developing player and offensively doesn't have range to the 3. He was there for defense, git blocks, steals, knocked a lot of balls loose, was good on PnR, was on Marco for a good chunk, played the most of anyone in the bench bc of defense and rebounding. We didn't have Danny who makes a lot if hustle plays and had no rim protection except Boban. Kawhi and Kyle together forced a lot of mistakes on the kings. If you can't see the defensive impact he had I can't argue with you. Defense has been his best aspect bc offensively he's still hesitant. POP was nit being nice to him playing him 27 minutes.

[Mnky]

POP played him a lot tonight not bc of his scoring at all obviously since he's a developing player and offensively doesn't have range to the 3. He was there for defense, git blocks, steals, knocked a lot of balls loose, was good on PnR, was on Marco for a good chunk, played the most of anyone in the bench bc of defense and rebounding. We didn't have Danny who makes a lot if hustle plays and had no rim protection except Boban. Kawhi and Kyle together forced a lot of mistakes on the kings. If you can't see the defensive impact he had I can't argue with you. Defense has been his best aspect bc offensively he's still hesitant. POP was nit being nice to him playing him 27 minutes.

I'm not looking to argue. I like Kyle.

[ElNono]

POP played him a lot tonight not bc of his scoring at all obviously since he's a developing player and offensively doesn't have range to the 3. He was there for defense, git blocks, steals, knocked a lot of balls loose, was good on PnR, was on Marco for a good chunk, played the most of anyone in the bench bc of defense and rebounding. We didn't have Danny who makes a lot if hustle plays and had no rim protection except Boban. Kawhi and Kyle together forced a lot of mistakes on the kings. If you can't see the defensive impact he had I can't argue with you. Defense has been his best aspect bc offensively he's still hesitant. POP was nit being nice to him playing him 27 minutes.

I'm probably gonna get called a "hater" or that I have some "agenda" for saying this, but I didn't like his game tonight. I thought he had some pretty bad defensive lapses (I did like his rebounding though), and don't think his offense is really anything other teams should be concerned about. IMO, he needs to stand out more if he's to earn a spot in the playoff rotation. I know it's tough because he's so young and surrounded of vets that already made a name for themselves, but that's my general feeling.
I'm not going to say KMart has that shit on lock without looking at him playing in our team, but I do think he has some advantage to be higher in a potential playoff pecking order (although matchups can dictate that too).

[SAGirl]

I'm not looking to argue. I like Kyle.
:tu

[SAGirl]

I'm probably gonna get called a "hater" or that I have some "agenda" for saying this, but I didn't like his game tonight. I thought he had some pretty bad defensive lapses (I did like his rebounding though), and don't think his offense is really anything other teams should be concerned about. IMO, he needs to stand out more if he's to earn a spot in the playoff rotation. I know it's tough because he's so young and surrounded of vets that already made a name for themselves, but that's my general feeling.
I'm not going to say KMart has that shit on lock without looking at him playing in our team, but I do think he has some advantage to be higher in a potential playoff pecking order (although matchups can dictate that too).
Nah I don't consider that a hater. Haters usually have no objective reason that they even care to articulate.

Every team has to have the low usage guy who is willing to do the dirty work. Danny and now Tim are that for the SL. Which is why ppl getting so hard on Danny sometimes forget what his most valuable contributions are to the SL and that Kmart does none if those things. You don't want or need a high usage guy there at that spot, but you do need someone who is going to play tough as nails and make all the hustle plays, take the open shot and move the ball, etc. Danny has been making some nice passes no one credits him for either bc they are not spectacular. They don't need to be.

Sure Danny has flaws but what he brings is more needed there than what Kmart could bring to the SL IMO. That was the initial subject of the thread and bc even good shooters go through dry spells, what you give up defensively doesn't make up for the scoring when the SL already has 3 other scorers and smarts use would be limited.

The bench is more fluid, and its live and die by Manu. When he's playing well he can carry any dleaguer when he's off you maybe have other guys there who can help. I don't see Kmart as being high usage in the bench. I actually see him as situational in the playoffs as Marco was at times precisely bc of his defensive lapses.

Also, rarely will you see a perfect defensive game even from experienced players. I have seen them in the playoffs, but in the RS even Kawhi or Danny get blown by or miss an assignment. The overall game Kyle had was a positive though and he got stops.

Your personal preference is your own and I am not going to change that.

[gambit1990]

if we need more offense? NO SHIT.

why is this a thread?

[ElNono]

This was an ideal night for that, tbh... Monta just flat out schools Danny for some reason and Danny is just sleepwalking out there...

[tholdren]

This was an ideal night for that, tbh... Monta just flat out schools Danny for some reason and Danny is just sleepwalking out there...
but but but elite defender, but but but when his shot isn't falling he plays hard on defense.....

same crap you guys cried about splitter.

both soft

[SAGirl]

He made Monta work at the end, and Monta is a handful for anyone. If you have Kawhi on him he would not have the energy for offense, and frankly Kawhi is not the best on him. If anything it wasn't a night to bench Danny, but to bring Kmrt off the bench bc Manu was off and out there for too long, and no one got it going. Maybe Kmart can be a spart and I guess that is why he's joining us. Hope he comes through.

[DPG21920]

The CoM and CoG battle lines run deep after six years.

To answer your question, Nono, if Martin is playing well and Green isn't, you give Kevin the minutes. Simple as that. There are going to be games were that happens, and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing that matter is that if Green is playing well in a big moment, that Pop doesn't keep Martin in there instead.

This. You use him just like Beli to see what he has. Especially in games where DG just can't get it going, you throw him in to see if he can spark. But it will be very case by case and the flow of the game and play of DG will dictate that.

[TheGreatYacht]

but but but elite defender, but but but when his shot isn't falling he plays hard on defense.....

same crap you guys cried about splitter.

both soft
Great post

[kobyz]

Danny Green being a high level defender is a pretending! cause he so too cute with no killer instinct... That last position was pathetic defense on Ellis, just like the game winner of CP3 on us last playoff... Most overrated player in the league!

[apalisoc_9]

Danny Green being a high level defender is a pretending! cause he so too cute with no killer instinct... That last position was pathetic defense on Ellis, just like the game winner of CP3 on us last playoff... Most overrated player in the league!

You're overrated. Fatso. Dont ever post in my messageboard rver again

[BatManu20]

Moved.

[steeledl]

If he is worth a fuck and pop isn't stubborn he will eat into both green and ginobilis minutes.....

[SAGirl]

We shall see. Has to show us he's better than those two to begin with.

Hopefully he comes through when we need him. Having to waive someone we like and who's helped us through the season is not easy and Spurs must believe he's a definite game changer whether he rakes some SG or SF minutes (mean Anderson there of course). Whatever he does, has to be better than those guys. We shall see. Games like yesterdays I definitely could have seen him get burn fir both Manu and Green.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's interesting that out of Martin's 17 minutes, so far, 9.5 of them have been with Green on the floor with him..

Obviously that's due to Manu getting a little rest during the RS, but I'll be interested to see how Pop manages the minutes, as we have only seen 1 instance of Martin playing with the starters ahead of Green, so far..

Pop has been fucking with a lot of Kawhi-Green + Martin/Anderson lineups, lately..that Warriors prep:lol

[DAF86]

Martin should be a situational guy that gets in when we aren't making shots, tbh.

[ElNono]

Tonight was a good night to play him against the Clips bench, tbh, there's a couple guys you can hide him on defense. He's going to play based on stuff like that.

[HarlemHeat37]

Tonight was a good night to play him against the Clips bench, tbh, there's a couple guys you can hide him on defense. He's going to play based on stuff like that.

What do you expect Manu's playoff MPG to be around?

[ElNono]

What do you expect Manu's playoff MPG to be around?

I think it depends on how he recovers from his injury and gets back in shape... if he's at a 16 PER like last playoffs, probably 15-20... if a bit better, maybe up to 25...

But I also think things like being able to hide KMart on defense against certain teams might open up some minutes from Manu to him..

[DPG21920]

It's interesting that out of Martin's 17 minutes, so far, 9.5 of them have been with Green on the floor with him..

Obviously that's due to Manu getting a little rest during the RS, but I'll be interested to see how Pop manages the minutes, as we have only seen 1 instance of Martin playing with the starters ahead of Green, so far..

Pop has been fucking with a lot of Kawhi-Green + Martin/Anderson lineups, lately..that Warriors prep:lol

Ya - that DG/Kawhi/Martin/Diaw/West line up was strange.

[Cry Havoc]

What do you expect Manu's playoff MPG to be around?

I think first round pretty low, we won't need him so 10-15.

2nd round his role will increase, 15-20.

If he's effective I could see him getting 25-27 mpg against the Dubs. That's a big if though.

[SAGirl]

With Pop saying that this late in the season they don't do shoot around it doesn't surprise me to see Kmart thrown in different lineups, since these guys haven't played together and he needs some reps. He's probably very situational as others have pointed out and more likely a bench player bc the SL has the two consistent scorers. Mills and Manu being inconsistent and the whole committee leaves open the possibility of minutes for Kmart in the bench bc that was the area where Marco pitched in when others didn't have it going and that is not an Anderson strength at this point.

Plus there is always injury insurance.

[Mnky]

He got minutes in manu/mills/Tony area and guarded the same guy they usually do in rivers. Rivers didn't score on him, and Martin's good plus minus was the equivalent of last game, being that it was mostly on the surrounding players. Pretty much what I said he would be. Pop getting him minutes with such big games will be definitive towards his role in the playoffs considering he hardly knows the system. He has been working him in, which makes me believe he will have a definite role in the playoffs. Pop kept pulling him aside and talking with him. Seems to be pushing his development with the team.

[SAGirl]

He got minutes in manu/mills/Tony area and guarded the same guy they usually do in rivers. Rivers didn't score on him, and Martin's good plus minus was the equivalent of last game, being that it was mostly on the surrounding players. Pretty much what I said he would be. Pop getting him minutes with such big games will be definitive towards his role in the playoffs considering he hardly knows the system. He has been working him in, which makes me believe he will have a definite role in the playoffs. Pop kept pulling him aside and talking with him. Seems to be pushing his development with the team.
That I do agree with. He really got minutes at SG almost exclusively. There are not bound to be many minutes at SF available anways and my impression s that whenever Kawhi is sitting Pop will have either Danny or Anderson at SF to help in transition defense, rebounding and overall defense, not areas of Kmart strength. He's been subbed for Manu the most with Danny next to him and against OKC he was subbed for Danny with Kawhi next to him.

Definitely no SF minutes.

[TD 21]

Maybe occasionally, if he catches fire and there's an obvious hiding place for him.

More importantly, it's time him and Diaw combined to take all of Anderson's (meaningful) minutes.

They've struggled all season offensively against elite teams, yet for the second straight Saturday, minutes are being wasted on Anderson. I don't care about his knowledge or lack thereof, of the system. He's a veteran player, who knows how to play. Besides, they don't have much time to work him in and he's not going to magically pick everything up by the playoffs anyway.

If they don't want to play him with the bench much because it would further weaken their defense/rebounding, then Green can sub back in for Leonard late-end 1st and 3rd and he can sub in for Ginobili at roughly the 10 minute mark, 1st and 3rd.

[Chinook]

He's not a great fit with Manu. He might even be a worse one than Anderson since he doesn't have elite size. That and the fact that he's a worse defender than Kyle has been keeping him out of the rotation. I haven't hated Martin as a Spur, but I don't think he has a clear role that fits his skill-set. And yes, that freaking matters.

[TD 21]

He's not a great fit with Manu. He might even be a worse one than Anderson since he doesn't have elite size. That and the fact that he's a worse defender than Kyle has been keeping him out of the rotation. I haven't hated Martin as a Spur, but I don't think he has a clear role that fits his skill-set. And yes, that freaking matters.

Maybe not, but if that's true, they can do what I said, rotation wise, to avoid that.

Anderson doesn't check any box (sure, he's a better defender than Martin, but it's not as if he's a lock down one) and essentially has no role. Diaw and Leonard are obviously better small ball power forward options and now that they have another wing shooter, it makes it easier to utilize the latter in that role.

[Chinook]

Maybe not, but if that's true, they can do what I said, rotation wise, to avoid that.

Anderson doesn't check any box (sure, he's a better defender than Martin, but it's not as if he's a lock down one) and essentially has no role. Diaw and Leonard are obviously better small ball power forward options and now that they have another wing shooter, it makes it easier to utilize the latter in that role.

The reason I haven't hated Martin with the Spurs is because Pop hasn't been trying to use him as a shooter. He's been letting him play his game, which is cuts and rubs and drives. Things can obviously still get better for him as there are packages Pop can run to get Martin threes and better touches, but he's not more productive than Anderson in any way yet. He's not the passer, rebounder or defender Kyle is. He return to being a better scorer, but that's not going to get consistent minutes in the current rotation.

[SAGirl]

Maybe not, but if that's true, they can do what I said, rotation wise, to avoid that.

Anderson doesn't check any box (sure, he's a better defender than Martin, but it's not as if he's a lock down one) and essentially has no role. Diaw and Leonard are obviously better small ball power forward options and now that they have another wing shooter, it makes it easier to utilize the latter in that role. We have an elite record with Anderson carrying a spot in the regular rotation. I had a debate with you long ago that I doubt we would have had this record with Marco taking Anderson's minutes. defense matters and its the identity of this team. Since then Anderson's versatility allowed this team to keep up winning streaks and records that last season would have likely meant a loosing skid ( when Kawhi, Manu and Tim are injured and all you have is Marco there hypothetically).

I am quite neutral on Martn TBH, but the minutes for the 4th wing are so short anyways that Anderson has the ability to impact the game more in a short period with all the intangibles he does, help defense switching g, a contested rebounds d he gets that enss a defensive possession, a nice pass to someone. Sure he could do more if he was scoring but he's the last option in the bench and likely so would Martin, and doesn't do anything else, of the other blue collar stuff. The guy he could replace e in the rotation is Manu quite honestly, maybe Mills and those are guys Pop is unlikely to sit unless there is foul trouble... but technically both guys have the heAviest offensive burden and Martin being an offensive player, those are like the guys he would ideally sub in for.

Edit had to add that the bench will struggle when Manu does and you have Diaw starting. You are too biased against the few minutes Anderson saw to pin their struggles on him.

[Kawhitstorm]

The reason I haven't hated Martin with the Spurs is because Pop hasn't been trying to use him as a shooter. He's been letting him play his game, which is cuts and rubs and drives.

K-Mart is better suited playing w/ a lineup of Patty/Kawhi/West/LMA. Have Kawhi run PnP w/ LMA while Patty/West spread the floor & K-Mart cuts. He can also cut when Kawhi or LMA are posting up while the rest spread the floor. This can only be done against a mediocre backcourt such as OKC when they bench WestBrick (Foye/Waiters) & have KD running the offense.

[Blake]

I think he's an ideal guy to have out there when you can hide two players on defense... he's a guy that can shoot the 3 and also very good at driving and flopping for freebies...

Obviously, this is besides being Manu insurance if he gets in foul trouble or hurt...

Do you give him a blue light or a green light to shoot the 3

[Obstructed_View]

I'd like to see him inserted to help draw fouls for sure, and to generate offense at some point, but he needs to learn what a Spurs shot is and what a Timberwolves shot is. He's taken a few of the latter, which troubles me.

[TD 21]

The reason I haven't hated Martin with the Spurs is because Pop hasn't been trying to use him as a shooter. He's been letting him play his game, which is cuts and rubs and drives. Things can obviously still get better for him as there are packages Pop can run to get Martin threes and better touches, but he's not more productive than Anderson in any way yet. He's not the passer, rebounder or defender Kyle is. He return to being a better scorer, but that's not going to get consistent minutes in the current rotation.

It's not about who the more well rounded player is; it's about who fits best or at least has the potential to. The things Anderson does well, they don't have a current need for. The things Martin does well, they clearly have a current need for.

You can analyze Martin's shooting until you're blue in the face, but no matter how you slice it, he's clearly a superior range shooter to Anderson.

Maybe you like laboring to score and having virtually no margin for error against elite teams. Me, I'd prefer some breathing room one of these games.



We have an elite record with Anderson carrying a spot in the regular rotation. I had a debate with you long ago that I doubt we would have had this record with Marco taking Anderson's minutes. defense matters and its the identity of this team. Since then Anderson's versatility allowed this team to keep up winning streaks and records that last season would have likely meant a loosing skid ( when Kawhi, Manu and Tim are injured and all you have is Marco there hypothetically).

I am quite neutral on Martn TBH, but the minutes for the 4th wing are so short anyways that Anderson has the ability to impact the game more in a short period with all the intangibles he does, help defense switching g, a contested rebounds d he gets that enss a defensive possession, a nice pass to someone. Sure he could do more if he was scoring but he's the last option in the bench and likely so would Martin, and doesn't do anything else, of the other blue collar stuff. The guy he could replace e in the rotation is Manu quite honestly, maybe Mills and those are guys Pop is unlikely to sit unless there is foul trouble... but technically both guys have the heAviest offensive burden and Martin being an offensive player, those are like the guys he would ideally sub in for.

Edit had to add that the bench will struggle when Manu does and you have Diaw starting. You are too biased against the few minutes Anderson saw to pin their struggles on him.

Damn near any competent NBA wing could have played the role Anderson/Simmons have and the team would still have roughly, if not exactly, the same record.

You're so protective of Anderson that you can't see that I'd have no reason to be biased against him and that I'm just telling it like it is.

[dabom]

We have an elite record with Anderson carrying a spot in the regular rotation. I had a debate with you long ago that I doubt we would have had this record with Marco taking Anderson's minutes. defense matters and its the identity of this team. Since then Anderson's versatility allowed this team to keep up winning streaks and records that last season would have likely meant a loosing skid ( when Kawhi, Manu and Tim are injured and all you have is Marco there hypothetically).

I am quite neutral on Martn TBH, but the minutes for the 4th wing are so short anyways that Anderson has the ability to impact the game more in a short period with all the intangibles he does, help defense switching g, a contested rebounds d he gets that enss a defensive possession, a nice pass to someone. Sure he could do more if he was scoring but he's the last option in the bench and likely so would Martin, and doesn't do anything else, of the other blue collar stuff. The guy he could replace e in the rotation is Manu quite honestly, maybe Mills and those are guys Pop is unlikely to sit unless there is foul trouble... but technically both guys have the heAviest offensive burden and Martin being an offensive player, those are like the guys he would ideally sub in for.

Edit had to add that the bench will struggle when Manu does and you have Diaw starting. You are too biased against the few minutes Anderson saw to pin their struggles on him.

Is this a fucking joke? :lmao

[dabom]

4 extra minutes per game than last year isn't what makes us great.

Kawhi LMA.

Not a player that plays blowout minutes. :lmao

[SAGirl]

It's not about who the more well rounded player is; it's about who fits best or at least has the potential to. The things Anderson does well, they don't have a current need for. The things Martin does well, they clearly have a current need for.

You can analyze Martin's shooting until you're blue in the face, but no matter how you slice it, he's clearly a superior range shooter to Anderson.

Maybe you like laboring to score and having virtually no margin for error against elite teams. Me, I'd prefer some breathing room one of these games.




Damn near any competent NBA wing could have played the role Anderson/Simmons have and the team would still have roughly, if not exactly, the same record.

You're so protective of Anderson that you can't see that I'd have no reason to be biased against him and that I'm just telling it like it is.
No it's not that. I understand you point correctly but I disagree that others in the bench bring what he brings. The passing they don't need but that unit struggles defending and rebounding too, and KA recent minutes have come as a sort of stretch 4. That is kind of a niche role. He got some minutes at the 3 when Kawhi sat but he was defending Draymond with LMA on Livingston. He was there for obvious defensive assignments to switch onto Curry. It's likely the few minutes Kawhi sits either Danny or KA will see time at SF again bc of the blue collar stuff. It's going to be a few minutes. Manu used to take on the toughest defensive assignments in the bench and maybe this particular case is unique bc the switching schemes means you can't really hide anyone's defensive deficiencies. But it seemed clear to me that KA was there for reasons other than scoring the basketball. He didn't pass up shots he should have taken.
That may not be the case in all series, so I think Martin can have a niche role as well, but if you wanted to sub him in the game for guys whose role is to score the ball then that would be Manu and Mills.

The point is that Pop plays Kawhi a lot of minutes anyways, and Danny is the more superior defender and shooter when Kawhi is not in the game, as it is there are very few minutes at the 3 when Kawhi is not in the game and its a trade-off in what you want for those 5-8 minutes in a player that neither him or Danny are subbed in at the SF spot. It's likely Martin would only get a shot or two in such a short period of time, meantime you give up on everything else.

[TD 21]

No it's not that. I understand you point correctly but I disagree that others in the bench bring what he brings. The passing they don't need but that unit struggles defending and rebounding too, and KA recent minutes have come as a sort of stretch 4. That is kind of a niche role. He got some minutes at the 3 when Kawhi sat but he was defending Draymond with LMA on Livingston. He was there for obvious defensive assignments to switch onto Curry. It's likely the few minutes Kawhi sits either Danny or KA will see time at SF again bc of the blue collar stuff. It's going to be a few minutes. Manu used to take on the toughest defensive assignments in the bench and maybe this particular case is unique bc the switching schemes means you can't really hide anyone's defensive deficiencies. But it seemed clear to me that KA was there for reasons other than scoring the basketball. He didn't pass up shots he should have taken.
That may not be the case in all series, so I think Martin can have a niche role as well, but if you wanted to sub him in the game for guys whose role is to score the ball then that would be Manu and Mills.

The point is that Pop plays Kawhi a lot of minutes anyways, and Danny is the more superior defender and shooter when Kawhi is not in the game, as it is there are very few minutes at the 3 when Kawhi is not in the game and its a trade-off in what you want for those 5-8 minutes in a player that neither him or Danny are subbed in at the SF spot. It's likely Martin would only get a shot or two in such a short period of time, meantime you give up on everything else.

They don't need what he brings and some of what he does, he can't even showcase in his current role. You saw it again tonight. The bench continued their malaise and instead of Martin playing with them in an attempt to stave off the predictable (after the massive early lead, against a solid team that has had slow starts recently) collapse, more minutes were being wasted on Anderson.

The scenario you're describing, I explained a solution to. Green can come back in for Leonard late 1st/3rd - start 2nd/4th and Martin can come in for Ginobili around 10, 2nd/4th.

[tholdren]

anderson is worse than miller

[SAGirl]

They don't need what he brings and some of what he does, he can't even showcase in his current role. You saw it again tonight. The bench continued their malaise and instead of Martin playing with them in an attempt to stave off the predictable (after the massive early lead, against a solid team that has had slow starts recently) collapse, more minutes were being wasted on Anderson.

The scenario you're describing, I explained a solution to. Green can come back in for Leonard late 1st/3rd - start 2nd/4th and Martin can come in for Ginobili around 10, 2nd/4th.
This right here is pure speculation bc he played in the first half and they held a huge lead still when he sat (despite dwest fouling a 3 pts shooter for a 4 pts play and Anderson giving up a couple of transition baskets off a blocked shot on MAnu and a TO.) Outside of that that unit was stout and did not give up a huge lead.

The groupoup that gave up the huge lead included Kmart and played in the second half. That was the big time collapse that KA was not a part of. It wasn't even on Kmart either as he did his thing well enough. It was actually the other guys in the bench, TO and bad transition defense that did them in. I think if you swap Kmart and Anderson it was going to be a wash though as neither guy was the reason for the meltdown IMO. In fact Pop probably played Kmart too long as Kawhi only played 30 minutes and he's been playing between 36-38.

[ohmwrecker]

I would prefer Danny Green hit his fucking shots.

[TD 21]

This right here is pure speculation bc he played in the first half and they held a huge lead still when he sat (despite dwest fouling a 3 pts shooter for a 4 pts play and Anderson giving up a couple of transition baskets off a blocked shot on MAnu and a TO.) Outside of that that unit was stout and did not give up a huge lead.

The groupoup that gave up the huge lead included Kmart and played in the second half. That was the big time collapse that KA was not a part of. It wasn't even on Kmart either as he did his thing well enough. It was actually the other guys in the bench, TO and bad transition defense that did them in. I think if you swap Kmart and Anderson it was going to be a wash though as neither guy was the reason for the meltdown IMO. In fact Pop probably played Kmart too long as Kawhi only played 30 minutes and he's been playing between 36-38.

It was dwindling while he was in. It was also a bad match-up for him, since Leonard and Green are the obvious Batum defenders, they don't really have another healthy small forward and the Spurs stayed big throughout.

I'm not blaming him, but it's yet another example of him not being a current fit. Sure, the Hornets were going to make at least somewhat of a run at some point and Martin did play the final five something of the half. But, if he's in with that unit, maybe the lead gets pushed from 23 to 28 before the inevitable run and they hold on at the end.

Either way, the closing schedule is too difficult to continue wasting minutes on a player who doesn't contribute in a specific area of need.

[tholdren]

kevin martin needs to play more. he was picked up because of the lack of scoring. martin sat on the bench while spurs couldn't score. seems like a waste to me. danny green sure as hell can't score

[jermaine]

kevin martin needs to play more. he was picked up because of the lack of scoring. martin sat on the bench while spurs couldn't score. seems like a waste to me. danny green sure as hell can't score

The sad part is that when he's in the game, he's been effective. Hitting shots an getting to the line.

[SAGirl]

I think Pop was onto this when he had Kmart play with the SL and a mix of bench lineups. Pop is still figuring out where he will be able to fit in the best. I think the bench lacks an alpha right this seconds e has too many guys that pass up scoring opportunities and it goes beyond KA, bc they were not scoring well as a unit and Boris passed up shots, as did West and Manu, who I think doesn't have his confidence back, therefore he defers too much and gets into a playmaking/facilitator role among a group of other guys who are the same, right down to dwest.

[tholdren]

I think Pop was onto this when he had Kmart play with the SL and a mix of bench lineups. Pop is still figuring out where he will be able to fit in the best. I think the bench lacks an alpha right this seconds e has too many guys that pass up scoring opportunities and it goes beyond KA, bc they were not scoring well as a unit and Boris passed up shots, as did West and Manu, who I think doesn't have his confidence back, therefore he defers too much and gets into a playmaking/facilitator role among a group of other guys who are the same, right down to dwest.

no kidding. this is why Spurs brought in martin

[MultiTroll]

Where is all this alleged great shooting by KMart?
The last 5 years he hasn't cracked 50% true shooting percentage once.
43 the last couple years.

Why the hell was he such an urgent pick up? :downspin:

[tholdren]

Where is all this alleged great shooting by KMart?
The last 5 years he hasn't cracked 50% true shooting percentage once.
43 the last couple years.

Why the hell was he such an urgent pick up? :downspin:
can get to the line - better shooter than green. need someone to hold on to scoring/pace (ft line) when spurs inevitably go on a drought!