Ettore Messina coached a good game tbh

[TheDoctor]

Made good rotations, played hard his studs but:

Can't shoot for the team (4-28 3ptFG).
Can't make layups for the team.
Can't make 5ft bunnies for the team.

Spurs players left arguably 20pts in there ^

Game.

[Darius Bieber]

Only thing I didn't agree with was Manu in for Mills. Should have put Miller in for the time being. I understand he's new to the team, but might as well throw him into the fire to learn a few things.

[TheDoctor]

Only thing I didn't agree with was Manu in for Mills. Should have put Miller in for the time being. I understand he's new to the team, but might as well throw him into the fire to learn a few things.
Could be. But frankly I bet Pop would have done the same.

[YGWHI]

IDK, I'd say for most part of the game but the last plays...Also, the Spurs lost the ball or take a bad shot after every timeout called by him.

[hater]

The good: He benched Manu to have us go on a 10-2 run in the 4th

The bad: He brought Manu back in :lol

[ducks]

Yeah he told them to keep shooting threes instead
Getting closer
Could have tried miller

[TheDoctor]

...Also, the Spurs lost the ball or take a bad shot after every timeout called by him.
Extra lazy passes but hat tip to Indy because they played super hard D, specially the lines. But we make 3 more treys and a couple of bunnies and this game was ours.

[SAGirl]

Made good rotations, played hard his studs but:

Can't shoot for the team (4-28 3ptFG).
Can't make layups for the team.
Can't make 5ft bunnies for the team.

Spurs players left arguably 20pts in there ^

Game.
There wasn't much to do to combat that.
I wanted to see some boban instead of Diaw. At least Boban could make a basket, but OTOH they might feel like Boban will give up more on the other end. It's an enigma.

[sasaint]

Admittedly I only tuned in for about 9 minutes of the 4th quarter, when Messina used eight guys. Box score seems to show he really shortened his rotation on a night when most of the core was having an off-night. I doubt Pop could have refrained from experimenting more to try to find a player or line-up that was more efficient. Kawhi and LMA don't ever log this many minutes. Kyle apparently only played in the first half, and Boban didn't even get in the game. Seems like Messina's rotations and general game-management were questionable.

[SAGirl]

Admittedly I only tuned in for about 9 minutes of the 4th quarter, when Messina used eight guys. Box score seems to show he really shortened his rotation on a night when most of the core was having an off-night. I doubt Pop could have refrained from experimenting more to try to find a player or line-up that was more efficient. Kawhi and LMA don't ever log this many minutes. Kyle apparently only played in the first half, and Boban didn't even get in the game. Seems like Messina's rotations and general game-management were questionable.
I wonder to what degree Pop prescribed a minutes allocation .. but I suspect if there was one, it was the absolute max, bc it seems Messina played his best guys the max (Kawhi,LMA, Manu 20 minutes considering his long layoff I consider the max minutes for him at this point).

He wanted to win this one and didn't want to chance it with unknowns is my opinion. The 10 minutes Kyle played were strict Kawhi relief. It wasn't anything experimental or anything either like Pop has done with Kyle recently.

He definitely was very consdervative. Pop has lately been a lot more experimental with lineups, guys he uses, and how he uses them and if one unit or one guy started bad off the bat he would yank that guy right out, as we have seen him do with Tony and others recently.

[tbdog]

I disagree. We shot the ball bad, so why not let Butler have a shot? That is what he is there for. Also Kyle was playing great and didn't get enough run in the second. He was playing under control, breaking down the D, and rebounding in traffic. Ellis torches Green since I can remember, and instead of maybe switching Leonard and Green around to mark George and Ellis, he later on puts Mills on him. At least give Simmons a go. Also, down 3 I am not sure what his play was. He made no defensive changes that I could see either.

[sasaint]

I disagree. We shot the ball bad, so why not let Butler have a shot? That is what he is there for. Also Kyle was playing great and didn't get enough run in the second. He was playing under control, breaking down the D, and rebounding in traffic. Ellis torches Green since I can remember, and instead of maybe switching Leonard and Green around to mark George and Ellis, he later on puts Mills on him. At least give Simmons a go. Also, down 3 I am not sure what his play was. He made no defensive changes that I could see either.

Didn't want to play Butler because you look like an idiot if he is a difference-maker and you cut him tomorrow. :downspin:

[Robz4000]

:lmao

[SAGirl]

I disagree. We shot the ball bad, so why not let Butler have a shot? That is what he is there for. Also Kyle was playing great and didn't get enough run in the second. He was playing under control, breaking down the D, and rebounding in traffic. Ellis torches Green since I can remember, and instead of maybe switching Leonard and Green around to mark George and Ellis, he later on puts Mills on him. At least give Simmons a go. Also, down 3 I am not sure what his play was. He made no defensive changes that I could see either.
Frankly, to make a run why not simply bench Diaw who was ghastly bad and just put Kyle at the 4, and get a more perimeter lineup with Kawhi in there. Pop hasn't been shy mixing Kyle up in different lineups specially when Boris isn't giving you anything. Doesn't even have to be a long stretch if you don't want to get him exposed or anything. We have seen Kyle start games at the 4... He grabbed more rebounds and boxed out!
My goodness Messina really didn't try to shake the tree in this one to see what fell out.

[SAGirl]

Didn't want to play Butler because you look like an idiot if he is a difference-maker and you cut him tomorrow. :downspin:
Butler wasn't in uniform.

It was Boban, Andre Miller and Simmons.

Frankly I thought maybe Butler or Bonner should have been there to see if they could hit a 3.

[EVAY]

[QUOTE=tbdog;8465913]I disagree. We shot the ball bad, so why not let Butler have a shot? That is what he is there for. Also Kyle was playing great and didn't get enough run in the second. He was playing under control, breaking down the D, and rebounding in traffic. Ellis torches Green since I can remember, and instead of maybe switching Leonard and Green around to mark George and Ellis, he later on puts Mills on him. At least give Simmons a go. Also, down 3 I am not sure what his play was. He made no defensive changes that I could see either.[/

Both Butler and Bonner were in street clothes tonight, weren't they?

[SAGirl]

Both Butler and Bonner were in street clothes tonight, weren't they?
Yes they were.
Man I thought we could have used one of them.

[tmtcsc]

I expect the Spurs to win every game (because they are capable of beating anyone) but that's unrealistic. This was a let down but they're human and shit happens. When the cat's away, the mice will play. Pop not being there played a factor imo. Next.

[T Park]

Made good rotations, played hard his studs but:

Can't shoot for the team (4-28 3ptFG).
Can't make layups for the team.
Can't make 5ft bunnies for the team.

Spurs players left arguably 20pts in there ^

Game.



Leonard and Aldridge were shit. Amazing they had a shot at the end of the game at all.

[DMC]

Pop lost 9 games. Messina has some catching up to do.

[DMC]

Leonard and Aldridge were shit. Amazing they had a shot at the end of the game at all.

They looked disinterested.

One note about Kawhi: When he's going to attack, he's as steady as anyone in the league, but when that decision time comes he has no idea what to do, still. He still defers instead of taking over the game when we all know he could have just taken over the game.

[barakz21]

Wait, what happened to pop??? Missed the game or got thrown out???

[DeRozan m8]

Luke Walton woulda won us the game tbh

[Amuseddaysleeper]

They looked disinterested.

One note about Kawhi: When he's going to attack, he's as steady as anyone in the league, but when that decision time comes he has no idea what to do, still. He still defers instead of taking over the game when we all know he could have just taken over the game.

PG did an awesome job on Kawhi, if anything I was hoping for a little more out of LMA in the rare game that Kawhi is out of sorts.

[Chinook]

He was pretty much a substitute teacher. He didn't lose the game, but he also did almost nothing to win it. I'm not willing to close the book on him because of this game, but it didn't mitigate my reluctance about him, either.

[EVAY]

I disagree that Messina coached a good game. I don't think that he 'coached' at all.

[TheDoctor]

I disagree that Messina coached a good game. I don't think that he 'coached' at all.
Agree to disagree :toast

[Agloco]

Wait, what happened to pop??? Missed the game or got thrown out???

Out to tend to family medical situation. Will miss Minny game as well.

[Old School 44]

I don't think he should have played Manu down the stretch. As much as I am a fan, he just got back from injury. His first game back was an adrenaline game. They need to take it a little slower.

Poorly called game on both sides of the ball. Kawhi was getting frustrated. Even so, he needs to get back to being quiet Kawhi, seems to be complaining a lot lately.

I also think there was a little cloud hanging over this game knowing one of your friends won't be there for the next game.

[TheDoctor]

I don't think he should have played Manu down the stretch. As much as I am a fan, he just got back from injury. His first game back was an adrenaline game. They need to take it a little slower.

Poorly called game on both sides of the ball. Kawhi was getting frustrated. Even so, he needs to get back to being quite Kawhi, seems to be complaining a lot lately.

I also think there was a little cloud hanging over this game knowing one of your friends won't be there for the next game.

Solid takes.

[elbamba]

He overplayed our players. Especially with 5 games in 7 nights.

He should have mixed it up with the refs a little. Pop would have had a technical last night with the amount of contact the Pacers were giving to Leonard.

He called a bad timeout when the Spurs had an inbounds fast break and a Pacer player was under the basket whinning about a foul. See if you can take advantage of the numbers before you call a timeout.

Obviously the Spurs not being able to score a basket in the first half and missing about 8 point blank layups and about 8 wide open threes played a major part in the loss.

[ceperez]

Absolutely not a fan of his conservative lineups..... ever since he got on board the spurs have gone conservative.

you don't win championships being conservative... you need to roll the dice and exhausting your starters in the regular season it total CYA.

[barakz21]

Out to tend to family medical situation. Will miss Minny game as well.

I see, thanks for bud!

[Dex]

Pretty sure Messina didn't make the team miss 19/39 shots at the rim and 21/24 threes. It may not have been a perfectly coached game, but it definitely was not the reason we lost.

[Chinook]

Pretty sure Messina didn't make the team miss 19/39 shots at the rim and 21/24 threes. It may not have been a perfectly coached game, but it definitely was not the reason we lost.

You can say that about any loss. Hell, or any win. Pop goes on and on about how the players do everything and he just tries to push it along. Then he collects eight figures a year.

The team came out flat mentally last night. I'm not saying that it's his fault they didn't really ever turn it on, but he certainly wasn't an inspiration for them. And to me, that's a lot worse than just not being perfect.

[100%duncan]

lol no

[100%duncan]

Pretty sure Messina didn't make the team miss 19/39 shots at the rim and 21/24 threes. It may not have been a perfectly coached game, but it definitely was not the reason we lost.

Pop also has nothing to do when Kawhi and LMA go apeshit on teams. But that's not the point is it

[ceperez]

You can say that about any loss. Hell, or any win. Pop goes on and on about how the players do everything and he just tries to push it along. Then he collects eight figures a year.

The team came out flat mentally last night. I'm not saying that it's his fault they didn't really ever turn it on, but he certainly wasn't an inspiration for them. And to me, that's a lot worse than just not being perfect.

The damn problem is that he was not keen enough to put someone with motivation on the court.

I mean, seeing how they played in the 1st quarter, he should have just thrown in a lot of scrubs to make them win the game. Rather, he sticks with his uninspired vets and it still got nowhere.

I am absolutely sure if he had Simmons and Boban play, they would play with a lot more fire than the guys who were on the court most of the game..

Fail!

[DMC]

I disagree that Messina coached a good game. I don't think that he 'coached' at all.
Wasn't his job to coach that night, but to manage minutes. How do you coach a team for one day at this point in the season... THAT team?

[Chinook]

Wasn't his job to coach that night, but to manage minutes. How do you coach a team for one day at this point in the season... THAT team?

That's all well and good, but then the premise of this thread is negated. Messina was a substitute teacher last night. That's fine, but it certainly wasn't "good".

[urunobili]

I was at the game. The players were all extremely happy in the shootaround. The ball just didn't go in. Bill Keneddy and the girl reffing gave the players and Messina no respect. As always a scrub had a fluke game against us (Stuckey in the 1st half). That was the ball game right there. When they tried in the 2nd half it was too late.

[SAGirl]

He was pretty much a substitute teacher. He didn't lose the game, but he also did almost nothing to win it. I'm not willing to close the book on him because of this game, but it didn't mitigate my reluctance about him, either.
I am starting to be more skeptical of him bc of this game, bc while he had nothing to do with guys missing shots he didn't have any adjustments to change the dynamics either and went away from guys that were playing fairly well (Kyle 2ndt Q to stick with Manu too long) I would have like to have seen Boban for a little bit maybe even try to get Turner in foul trouble. He could have also given Simmons and Anderson a try together as well and just tell Simmons to stick to his strengths.

It was a poor coaching job to stick with your good players when they are struggling and not adding any wrinkle to the plan to stop the bleeding.

[sasaint]

Wasn't his job to coach that night, but to manage minutes. How do you coach a team for one day at this point in the season... THAT team?

MANAGE MINUTES...! Good trolling! :lol

[sasaint]

I am starting to be more skeptical of him bc of this game, bc while he had nothing to do with guys missing shots he didn't have any adjustments to change the dynamics either and went away from guys that were playing fairly well (Kyle 2ndt Q to stick with Manu too long) I would have like to have seen Boban for a little bit maybe even try to get Turner in foul trouble. He could have also given Simmons and Anderson a try together as well and just tell Simmons to stick to his strengths.

It was a poor coaching job to stick with your good players when they are struggling and not adding any wrinkle to the plan to stop the bleeding.

Sure our core guys shot an abysmal percentage, but why stick with them? Decisions were NOT NBA caliber. (Shades of Thibs, tbh.) Spending all your veteran currency on the first night of a B2B is something Pop never would have done - ESPECIALLY when they were playing TURRIBLE for whatever reason. Messina did nothing more than anybody on ST could have done last night - probably worse than some, tbh. On the heels of last night's debacle, tonight will be very interesting from a coaching perspective.

[SAGirl]

Sure our core guys shot an abysmal percentage, but why stick with them? Decisions were NOT NBA caliber. (Shades of Thibs, tbh.) Spending all your veteran currency on the first night of a B2B is something Pop never would have done - ESPECIALLY when they were playing TURRIBLE for whatever reason. Messina did nothing more than anybody on ST could have done last night - probably worse than some, tbh. On the heels of last night's debacle, tonight will be very interesting from a coaching perspective.
Thibodeau is precisely who he reminded me off, running the good players to the ground even when they are struggling and not throwing any wrinkles or energy guys there when energy was perhaps needed. Not a very creative coach.

[spursistan]

Messina definitely has that old-school rigidity about him..Nothing against him, and it is only one game, but i would rather see young blood take over from Pop once that day comes..Ime and Becky, in a lead assistant role, would be my choice as of today (Who knows, maybe Bud/Brett Brown are going to be avaiable in few years)..But, in general, i prefer guys who can relate better with nowadays players...that generational divide has to be addressed at some point in the Spurs..not every 55-60 yo coach can be as malleabe as Pop and it is going to be even more tricky for him when he can't flash the rings..

[sasaint]

Messina definitely has that old-school rigidity about him..Nothing against him, and it is only one game, but i would rather see young blood take over from Pop once that day comes..Ime and Becky, in a lead assistant role, would be my choice as of today (Who knows, maybe Bud/Brett Brown are going to be avaiable in few years)..But, in general, i prefer guys who can relate better with nowadays players...that generational divide has to be addressed at some point in the Spurs..not every 55-60 yo coach can be as malleabe as Pop and it is going to be even more tricky for him when he can't flash the rings..

Exactly. Don't really know what Messina's value is - maybe Xs and Os? Certainly not decision-making on the bench. My choice/hope for the future would be Bud.

[TheDoctor]

Exactly. Don't really know what Messina's value is - maybe Xs and Os? Certainly not decision-making on the bench. My choice/hope for the future would be Bud.
Mine would be Becky.

[sasaint]

Mine would be Becky.

She was excellent in SL, but she is too short on real experience at this point. Jury is still out. Much depends on how many more seasons Pop chooses to coach.

[TheDoctor]

She was excellent in SL, but she is too short on real experience at this point. Jury is still out. Much depends on how many more seasons Pop chooses to coach.
Accurate take.

[Chinook]

Udoka. Dude was great developing Kawhi and Green. He's been around long enough to be credible as a coach but is young enough to still be relatable for players. The guys already know him, and he's probably not going to be inclined to change the Spurs' system for at least a couple of years. With Becky backing him up and guys like Forcier and Engelland to continue development, I think it'd be swell.

[ceperez]

Messina definitely has that old-school rigidity about him..Nothing against him, and it is only one game, but i would rather see young blood take over from Pop once that day comes..Ime and Becky, in a lead assistant role, would be my choice as of today (Who knows, maybe Bud/Brett Brown are going to be avaiable in few years)..But, in general, i prefer guys who can relate better with nowadays players...that generational divide has to be addressed at some point in the Spurs..not every 55-60 yo coach can be as malleabe as Pop and it is going to be even more tricky for him when he can't flash the rings..

That's likely Messina's problem... I can't see him relating to the players. I also don't even know if he was known for a kind of system when he coached in Europe.

Brad Stevens of the Celtics is really the kind of coach that would be ideal. He's got his system and he's got his players all signing up to play his system.

[YGWHI]

Udoka. Dude was great developing Kawhi and Green. He's been around long enough to be credible as a coach but is young enough to still be relatable for players. The guys already know him, and he's probably not going to be inclined to change the Spurs' system for at least a couple of years. With Becky backing him up and guys like Forcier and Engelland to continue development, I think it'd be swell.

When coach Bud left SA, Ime seemed Pop's natural successor, a guy who earned the respect of the players and has worked in the organization for many years...

I wonder what was the reason for the Messina deal, he was a successful coach in Europe but relatively unknown here...Pop was thinking he needed an especialist defensive to help him to make the old guys being able to set the tone defensively?

[Chinook]

When coach Bud left SA, Ime seemed Pop's natural successor, a guy who earned the respect of the players and has worked in the organization for many years...

I wonder what was the reason for the Messina deal, he was a successful coach in Europe but relatively unknown here...Pop was thinking he needed an especialist defensive to help him to make the old guys being able to set the tone defensively?

Messina wanted to join Pop's staff, and you don't turn down a guy like him. Plus Boylen was pretty bad as lead assistant.

[apalisoc_9]

Messina wanted to join Pop's staff, and you don't turn down a guy like him. Plus Boylen was pretty bad as lead assistant.

Fag left a now top 3 player in the world in the bench.:lol

[hater]

Ettore sucks worst coach in the league by far

[spursistan]

He is still better Jim "Errors Project" Boylen , tbh..

[SAGirl]

He is still better Jim "Errors Project" Boylen , tbh..


Messina wanted to join Pop's staff, and you don't turn down a guy like him. Plus Boylen was pretty bad as lead assistant.
Boylen hasn't done much for Chicago as lead assistant. Yes they have had injuries but so did the much maligned Thibs. They have taken a step back.

[TheDoctor]

Another awesomely coached game per par. Good job Ettore :toast

[YGWHI]

Another awesomely coached game per par. Good job Ettore :toast

C'mon Doc...the game against Indy wasn't one.

[Spurtacular]

Made good rotations, played hard his studs but:

Can't shoot for the team (4-28 3ptFG).
Can't make layups for the team.
Can't make 5ft bunnies for the team.

Spurs players left arguably 20pts in there ^

Game.

Dunno when Pop was booted; but Spurs shot 26 percent in the first half.