we went on a 10-2 run in the 4th with Manu benched...

[hater]

Why did Messina bring him back in???????

[Kawhitstorm]

Manu is a bench players so he can't technically be benched unlike Porky.:lol

[RD2191]

Manu is a bench players so he can't technically be benched unlike Porky.:lol
End thread.

[TheGreatYacht]

Washed up POS

[TheGreatYacht]

Him and Kiwi really handed the game to Indy

[hater]

Manu is a bench players so he can't technically be benched.:lol

Ummm he was benched right after Pacers took 16 point lead.

Then we went on a 10-2 run. Then he came back and airballed his first shot :lol

[in2deep]

Ummm he was benched right after Pacers took 16 point lead.

Then we went on a 10-2 run. Then he came back and airballed his first shot :lol

[spurtech09]

Parker was out too......Soooooooo keep both out?.....:P

[Kawhitstorm]

Him and Kiwi really handed the game to Indy

You mean like those patented washed up Porky tunnel vision drives.:sleep

[TheGreatYacht]

Porky meanwhile was playing for Indy.:wakeup
No he was in the locker room. Kiwi was giving up And 1s, splitting FTs, missing layups. Manu was air balling on his first shot and stopped a Spurs run instantaneously :lol

[ElNono]

Spurs were actually down 11 when Manu sat down... vending machine head was out there when Indy extended the lead to 16...

But, as I mentioned on the game thread, Messina overplayed Gino, who's still coming back from a month off (his last game notwithstanding)... Manu-Green and no Patty was puzzling also, at the end there...

[pgardn]

Spurs were actually down 11 when Manu sat down... vending machine head was out there when Indy extended the lead to 16...

But, as I mentioned on the game thread, Messina overplayed Gino, who's still coming back from a month off (his last game notwithstanding)... Manu-Green and no Patty was puzzling also, at the end there...

Manu plays well first game back and you know he is sore as hell at his age 2nd back.
Thats the rule of old.

[ElNono]

Manu plays well first game back and you know he is sore as hell at his age 2nd back.
Thats the rule of old.

Even playing well, it's difficult to rely on a 38 year old, tbh... you get what you can... Tony has a lot of miles also, but Patty has been upping his game... really was hoping for Danny to turn a corner offensively by now...

[MultiTroll]

Even playing well, it's difficult to rely on a 38 year old, tbh... you get what you can... Tony has a lot of miles also, but Patty has been upping his game...
Which is why coaching is going to be crucial to the Spurs Championship -or not- chances.
Sorry but while Messina cannot be blamed for the abysmal shooting %, this (Manus overplayed) is the exact kind of thing that needs to be chosen. We have a deep bench, use the damn bench people when the geezers are gassed or being Porky.

[Kawhitstorm]

No he was in the locker room. Kiwi was giving up And 1s, splitting FTs, missing layups. Manu was air balling on his first shot and stopped a Spurs run instantaneously :lol

How dare Kawhi give up a meaningless And-1 with the game clock turn off after that Italian bitch blew the game by drawing up a play for 3 when there was time to go 2-for-1.

Oh, are you talking about the run that started when Tony sprinted (on a bad toe:lol) to the locker room to massage his vagina?

[gospursgojas]

Euros help out Euros

[SAGirl]

Spurs were actually down 11 when Manu sat down... vending machine head was out there when Indy extended the lead to 16...

But, as I mentioned on the game thread, Messina overplayed Gino, who's still coming back from a month off (his last game notwithstanding)... Manu-Green and no Patty was puzzling also, at the end there...

That 5 point game swing was not attributable to Kyle, more to Tony if you recall.

Messina's experiments with the PG situation were awful. I don't think I have seen Manu/Green all season from Pop. He might have wanted to save Patty to end the game, but it was generally awful. That is why Andre Miller is there, and who knows since Manu was having a bad game maybe Andre can get someone or himself rolling. Just terrible.

[SAGirl]

Which is why coaching is going to be crucial to the Spurs Championship -or not- chances.
Sorry but while Messina cannot be blamed for the abysmal shooting %, this (Manus overplayed) is the exact kind of thing that needs to be chosen. We have a deep bench, use the damn bench people when the geezers are gassed or being Porky.
Frankly Messina looks like he would run our stars to the ground Chicago Bulls Tom Thibodeau style and not use his bench through the season as much.

I have to admire Pop. He really develops a bench and uses them. How many times have we been WTF about him handing the ball off to a roleplayer?

That is what Pop does, a roleplayer may at some point show up for him, that is why he does his CIA Pop stuff.

[SAGirl]

Even playing well, it's difficult to rely on a 38 year old, tbh... you get what you can... Tony has a lot of miles also, but Patty has been upping his game... really was hoping for Danny to turn a corner offensively by now...
As much as you criticize Kyle this is the kind of game maybe he could have played more. He was good in the first half I am watching it right now. Drew fouls a couple of times and was rebounding in traffic. He also made a few nifty passes. When he played, there was definite ball movement.

I daresay Messina could have stuck Simmons in there instead of Danny with him and see if they can't get a few transition buckets. Even Kyle/Kawhi would have been a good wing combo together. Kyle and Simmons have very good chemistry in those opportunities and Kyle is always looking to push the pace from his own rebound, he's just not as capable and needs an athletic partner as Simmons and Kawhi have been. That is just he reality. Kyle/Danny as a wing combo is not ideal, unless Danny is getting ready to bomb a 3 in transition and is running to the 3 pt line. You have to recognize that and play as a team.

He was the one leading the break twice!!!! No one was running back with him WTF was that? That should tell you the lack of energy and in that unit. 3-4 minutes from Kyle and Simmons together maybe they get it rolling. It was the kind of experiment where you just tell Simmons to do his thing, don't worry about dribbling in traffic, just leak out and see if we can get a few buckets, and I am telling you this bc Kyle was running ahead on his own. I was like WTF where is Danny, where is Patty, at least run to the fricking corner for a 3. Kyle ended up taking some contested shots at the basket bc of course, he's slow and no one was running to draw attention to the 3 pt shot or running with him. It was lazy from others.

(the bigs were Diaw/West, then Timmy, so yea they are even slower than Kyle, when its LMA, Kyle has assisted him on fastbreaks too.)

You have to understand that he's not going to finish most fastbreaks on his own and run with him.

Aside from that, he produced solid play. Definitely could have helped more.

[DPG21920]

As much as you criticize Kyle this is the kind of game maybe he could have played more. He was good in the first half I am watching it right now. Drew fouls a couple of times and was rebounding in traffic. He also made a few nifty passes. When he played, there was definite ball movement.

I daresay Messina could have stuck Simmons in there instead of Danny with him and see if they can't get a few transition buckets. Even Kyle/Kawhi would have been a good wing combo together. Kyle and Simmons have very good chemistry in those opportunities and Kyle is always looking to push the pace from his own rebound, he's just not as capable and needs an athletic partner as Simmons and Kawhi have been. That is just he reality. Kyle/Danny as a wing combo is not ideal, unless Danny is getting ready to bomb a 3 in transition and is running to the 3 pt line. You have to recognize that and play as a team.

He was the one leading the break twice!!!! No one was running back with him WTF was that? That should tell you the lack of energy and in that unit. 3-4 minutes from Kyle and Simmons together maybe they get it rolling. It was the kind of experiment where you just tell Simmons to do his thing, don't worry about dribbling in traffic, just leak out and see if we can get a few buckets, and I am telling you this bc Kyle was running ahead on his own. I was like WTF where is Danny, where is Patty, at least run to the fricking corner for a 3. Kyle ended up taking some contested shots at the basket bc of course, he's slow and no one was running to draw attention to the 3 pt shot or running with him. It was lazy from others.

(the bigs were Diaw/West, then Timmy, so yea they are even slower than Kyle, when its LMA, Kyle has assisted him on fastbreaks too.)

You have to understand that he's not going to finish most fastbreaks on his own and run with him.

Aside from that, he produced solid play. Definitely could have helped more.

Do you see now after watching how many looks inside SA missed that are normally converted at a much higher clip?

[SAGirl]

Do you see now after watching how many looks inside SA missed that are normally converted at a much higher clip?
yea Miles Turner was very active though and I think several shots inside were rushed.
Definitely a game that gets their speed up to playoff caliber.
I know that against defenses you have to be even quicker and more decisve. they definitely missed some easy ones inside that felt rushed and a couple of guys were blocked (Kyle among them).

[Hoops Czar]

Even playing well, it's difficult to rely on a 38 year old, tbh... you get what you can... Tony has a lot of miles also, but Patty has been upping his game... really was hoping for Danny to turn a corner offensively by now...

Parker should play 10 minutes and Manu should play reduced minutes? Who the hell is going to play pg for the Spurs? :lol Notice I said "play pg", not hog the ball and take all the shots (Mills).

[DMC]

Messina wasn't trying to win the game. He was trying to please Pop. That's a win to him. Pop wouldn't have been pleased if Messina did some crazy shit like putting Simmons in over Manu when Manu needs to get his game legs back. It's not about this game, it's about this season. It's a marathon.

[SAGirl]

Messina wasn't trying to win the game. He was trying to please Pop. That's a win to him. Pop wouldn't have been pleased if Messina did some crazy shit like putting Simmons in over Manu when Manu needs to get his game legs back. It's not about this game, it's about this season. It's a marathon.
You are probably right.
He did what he could within a certain parameters.
The experimental lineups he put out there came about after Tony got hurt.

If it was Pop though, Pop would have shaken things up and guys up for sure, bc I have been seeing it all season.

Messina didn't deviate from a plan it seemed like.

[DeRozan m8]

Washed up POS

You know all about these...

[gambit1990]

we went on a 23-15 run to end the game after parker left.

[ceperez]

Frankly Messina looks like he would run our stars to the ground Chicago Bulls Tom Thibodeau style and not use his bench through the season as much.

I have to admire Pop. He really develops a bench and uses them. How many times have we been WTF about him handing the ball off to a roleplayer?

That is what Pop does, a roleplayer may at some point show up for him, that is why he does his CIA Pop stuff.

I agree that he was playing the old guys too much.

[hater]

Messina wasn't trying to win the game. He was trying to please Pop. That's a win to him. Pop wouldn't have been pleased if Messina did some crazy shit like putting Simmons in over Manu when Manu needs to get his game legs back. It's not about this game, it's about this season. It's a marathon.

Messina sucks tbh. You don't bring a guy back after you go on a 10-2 run the moment he sits. Dumb dumb coach

[Spurtacular]

Reviving that ole schtick, huh, OP?

[Spurtacular]

Manu is a bench players so he can't technically be benched unlike Porky.:lol

Maybe from a very technical standpoint; but it was clear that Manu was benched at the most important stretches in the Clippers series; that's why I'm rooting for a very rested Manu.

[TheGreatYacht]

12-1 without Manu in the last 2 months :wow :lobt2:

[DMC]

12-1 without Manu in the last 2 months :wow :lobt2:

4 rings with him.

[ElNono]

Parker should play 10 minutes and Manu should play reduced minutes? Who the hell is going to play pg for the Spurs? :lol Notice I said "play pg", not hog the ball and take all the shots (Mills).

We have Miller now.. it's not permanent... just to give Tony some time to rest, although it might be moot at this point, with his injury...

[ElNono]

12-1 without Manu in the last 2 months :wow :lobt2:

Good rest for the big 3... really liked Miller, good insurance if Tony doesn't recover... wish Bobo would rest too though

[gambit1990]

12-1 without Manu in the last 2 months :wow :lobt2:
spurs 7-0 without parker this season. one is five years younger and getting paid more than four times as much as the other.

[TheGreatYacht]

spurs 7-0 without parker this season. one is five years younger and getting paid more than four times as much as the other.
Manu was making 14M when he gave us 8 turnovers and split championship winning FT's :wakeup

[DMC]

spurs 7-0 without parker this season. one is five years younger and getting paid more than four times as much as the other.
That's how age/contract works. When he was younger and tearing it up he wasn't making anywhere near what some other scrubs were making.

[ElNono]

spurs 7-0 without parker this season.

wow

[hater]

4 rings with him.

We have one with Finley don't mean he should still be on the team

[hater]

I'm all for dumping the big 3 as long as evita goes tbh :lmao

[gilmor]

With Kevin Martin coming in, hopefully we can relieve Manu till the playoffs.. there's where we really need Manu.. for some gutsy balls..

[Hoops Czar]

wow

Wins: at Minny, at Orl, at Pho, vs Utah, at Mil, vs Lakers... Woah Nelly!!!

16-2 without Manu.

Losses: at Clips, at NOR

[hater]

With Kevin Martin coming in, hopefully we can relieve Manu till the playoffs.. there's where we really need Manu.. for some gutsy balls..

Agree. As I said manu can still play the Steve Kerr 2003 role.

[ElNono]

Wins: at Minny, at Orl, at Pho, vs Utah, at Mil, vs Lakers... Woah Nelly!!!

16-2 without Manu.

Losses: at Clips, at NOR

thanks for the update, really had no clue we were 7-0 nor who it was against...

I do hope this forceful rest helps Tony... hopefully he doesn't rush back, even if it costs us some games, tbh

[gambit1990]

That's how age/contract works. When he was younger and tearing it up he wasn't making anywhere near what some other scrubs were making.
you should read my posts more than once. maybe that way you won't miss the point. again.

[HarlemHeat37]

thanks for the update, really had no clue we were 7-0 nor who it was against...

I do hope this forceful rest helps Tony... hopefully he doesn't rush back, even if it costs us some games, tbh

Is is true that Manu is top 25 in RPM, this season? Haven't looked at the numbers in a while, tbh..

[ElNono]

Is is true that Manu is top 25 in RPM, this season? Haven't looked at the numbers in a while, tbh..

Currently at #26...

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Gonna slip a bit until he regains his form....

[Hoops Czar]

thanks for the update, really had no clue we were 7-0 nor who it was against...

I do hope this forceful rest helps Tony... hopefully he doesn't rush back, even if it costs us some games, tbh

Try counting again.... It's 6-0 and none of the teams are playoff bound unless you're a fan of dat core.

[ElNono]

Try counting again.... It's 6-0 and none of the teams are playoff bound unless you're a fan of dat core.

Utah sucks, but they've been better than NOLA this season, tbh... Frankly, I thought they would sneak into 8th with the way the Rockets started...

[hater]

Advanced stats don't help when you throw airballs and miss layups killing our 4th quarter momentum tbqh

[SAGirl]

Maybe from a very technical standpoint; but it was clear that Manu was benched at the most important stretches in the Clippers series; that's why I'm rooting for a very rested Manu.
He wasn't closing games out and his minutes b4 the series had declined already and there had been games where he was already not closing them out. To me after getting overplayed in December he struggled the rest of the season. He wasn't rested as often and was remarkably healthy but he wasn't the same and I don't think he felt well with how he had been playing either.

[ElNono]

Is is true that Manu is top 25 in RPM, this season? Haven't looked at the numbers in a while, tbh..

Also check DRPM among guards... http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

Guess that's Andre Roberson's value... and lol @ overrated Jimmy Butler, defensive stopper, tbh...

[DMC]

We have one with Finley don't mean he should still be on the team

He's not.

[SAGirl]

Also check DRPM among guards... http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2

Guess that's Andre Roberson's value... and lol @ overrated Jimmy Butler, defensive stopper, tbh...
Hate to bust this nut, but Manu plays benches for the most part and does not shoulder the burden Jimmy has at this point in his career. He's 38 so yea, he's nit going to do at this stage what Jimmy does.

[NASpurs]

Hate to bust this nut, but Manu plays benches for the most part and does not shoulder the burden Jimmy has at this point in his career. He's 38 so yea, he's nit going to do at this stage what Jimmy does.

I don't think you're using that phrase correctly :lol

[SAGirl]

I don't think you're using that phrase correctly :lol
It was subtle jab! :toast

[NASpurs]

It was subtle jab! :toast

:lol well done then

[ElNono]

Hate to bust this nut, but Manu plays benches for the most part and does not shoulder the burden Jimmy has at this point in his career. He's 38 so yea, he's nit going to do at this stage what Jimmy does.

Those are defensive numbers... Jimmy was trumpeted as a defensive specialist (much like Leonard), but since his offensive load has increased, his defense has hit Kyle Korver levels...

Not necessarily a knock on him, that happens a lot in this league... except for true star players, like Leonard...

Manu is just ridiculous at 38 years old basically clear cut our 3rd best perimeter defender... You really can't use the bench excuse much there, because you don't see a lot of other reserves in that list. Plus he also plays some against starters, including closing out games. When you get older your lateral movement slips, it's pretty amazing he can still defend at that level. Not a surprise to see Mike Miller there too at #22... he's also a guy that has aged well on that side of the ball with smarts...

[SAGirl]

Those are defensive numbers... Jimmy was trumpeted as a defensive specialist (much like Leonard), but since his offensive load has increased, his defense has hit Kyle Korver levels...

Not necessarily a knock on him, that happens a lot in this league... except for true star players, like Leonard...

Manu is just ridiculous at 38 years old basically clear cut our 3rd best perimeter defender... You really can't use the bench excuse much there, because you don't see a lot of other reserves in that list. Plus he also plays some against starters, including closing out games. When you get older your lateral movement slips, it's pretty amazing he can still defend at that level. Not a surprise to see Mike Miller there too at #22... he's also a guy that has aged well on that side of the ball with smarts...
Look at Anderson's #

Same as you bust Anderson a nut saying it's garbage time, it's benches, it's trashy bottom feeders tanking teams. He has nice stats but you have to put then in context. He's not by far shouldering starting SF burden, but I do point out for him, he backs up Kawhi. That is a talk task bc Kanji does a lot for this team. Doesn't pad his own defensive stats by playing with Kawhi and Tim for the most part. Although, lately Kyle's been in every lineup. He's held his own for the most part. Sometimes there is an absolute lack of rim potection though as playing next to Boban doesn't guarantee it and frankly Manu himself I have witnessed getting on Boris for his defense.

But I would not say Kyle's on Jimmy Butler's level as a defender, same as neither is Manu.

It's a credit to Manu though that he has those stats while also playing with a lack of legit rim protectors. He holds his own by being scrappy and anticipating, gambling, but it pays off for him. Same thing for Kyle, he gets plugged in whenever wherever and also very often with other weak defenders so his stats are his own.

Just putting it all into perspective here.

[SAGirl]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Well if you bothered to look it up you would find out he has better defensive stats than Jimmy Butler. That was the origin if the discussion, but as it compared to Manu.

[ElNono]

Look at Anderson's #

Same as you bust Anderson a nut saying it's garbage time, it's benches, it's trashy bottom feeders tanking teams. He has nice stats but you have to put then in context. He's not by far shouldering starting SF burden, but I do point out for him, he backs up Kawhi. That is a talk task bc Kanji does a lot for this team. Doesn't pad his own defensive stats by playing with Kawhi and Tim for the most part. Although, lately Kyle's been in every lineup. He's held his own for the most part. Sometimes there is an absolute lack of rim potection though as playing next to Boban doesn't guarantee it and frankly Manu himself I have witnessed getting on Boris for his defense.

But I would not say Kyle's on Jimmy Butler's level as a defender, same as neither is Manu.

It's a credit to Manu though that he has those stats while also playing with a lack of legit rim protectors. He holds his own by being scrappy and anticipating, gambling, but it pays off for him. Same thing for Kyle, he gets plugged in whenever wherever and also very often with other weak defenders so his stats are his own.

Just putting it all into perspective here.

Kyle is a good defender and knows how to use his size to rebound, what he has is mental farts on defense which are expected for a relative rook, which is why I don't think his time is now for a playoff rotation role. It will take some time for him to earn some experience as a player, maybe next season. But you can also see his offense is obviously not that great yet, and the fact he only plays 14mpg hurts him in the overall RPM ladder.

Manu's 20mpg are also obviously a factor, but it's still pretty amazing you get that kind of production even in that time for a 38 year old. If he can regain his form and be fresh for the playoffs with that kind of production, the Spurs should be pretty happy.

[TheGreatYacht]

Did I just see fat head and Jimmy Butler in the same sentence? I'm out

[SAGirl]

Kyle is a good defender and knows how to use his size to rebound, what he has is mental farts on defense which are expected for a relative rook, which is why I don't think his time is now for a playoff rotation role. It will take some time for him to earn some experience as a player, maybe next season. But you can also see his offense is obviously not that great yet, and the fact he only plays 14mpg hurts him in the overall RPM ladder.

Manu's 20mpg are also obviously a factor, but it's still pretty amazing you get that kind of production even in that time for a 38 year old. If he can regain his form and be fresh for the playoffs with that kind of production, the Spurs should be pretty happy.
I am not sure how they calculate o +/- but I am willing to guess that for such a low usage player and minutes played his TO hurt him. He's not greatly inefficient thankfully. POP would send him right back to the dleague if he was and obviously the most efficient shot in bball is the 3 and he doesn't take many of those, nor is he hitting them at a high enough rate that you want to push him to take more-just take the shot if they dare you basically. Still has to extend his range for sure.

[hater]

Seems like Ettore is getting his legs under him and doing better. That plus Manu was out :lol