Rounders - Movie Review

[SpursforSix]

Maybe a top 10 for me. At least in terms of rewatchability. Norton's and maybe Damon's best roles IMO. Norton is perfectly cast and I don't think he had to go too far form home to play the smartass asshole.

9/10 for me. Every character from top to bottom captures the screen and has something that makes you want to watch them. Every scene has a sharp beginning and end that you can watch is satisfying short chunks if it happens to be on.

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Yep, never grows old on any level.

His professor (Landau) provides the film it's conscience, it's grace. He, more than any other character, or, scene teaches Mike.

And we see in the judge's game that Mike walks into for a signature what "America" is and what power is. These men, these men hold and wield tremendous power and their facials hold & tell much. There is a measure of LETHAL around that table and they size Mike up immediately. Great scene.

The girl from the Chesterfield. Her and Mike have a history and it's not over for her, but, it is for Mike. So uncomfortable watching them in his now vacated apartment.

"Worm" commenting (off camera) about the moose mounted on the wall as he invades the cop game that Mike forbid him from.

So much more.

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* The girl in the beginning that portends to be Mike's GF and gets him & Worm into the college dorm for that game with the suckers. She's a breath of fresh air:::confident, striking, but, not gorgeous, strong and assured. She's there for one reason=to make money. She's not there for hanky/panky with Worm, or, any guy for that matter. The production doesn't announce their character creation by her making a statement,,,they just show us. Christ, we're intelligent enough to see without having it stuffed down our throats.

* Mike's GF, another strong woman who stayed when Mike fell,,,has no such intention of doing so this time. Good for her. Sure, it aggravates (man), but, she's right.

* Mike's professor (Landau) is tuckered, haunted by his childhood, the end is nigh, yet there is still spark in this man. He knows the cocktail waitress by name and takes note of her walking away in Mike's presence. Doesn't leer, no, but, generates the beauty to his heart. And we're not shown this woman's face.

* The part where they go to NJ to gamble is filler that didn't need to be shot.

* Grama & Teddy's other gopher making a move to attack Mike after he's broken Teddy & Teddy warning them away. "Nyet!" This is an important point, but, one that I do not believe needed to be put on the reel. It shows that Teddy obviously has let this happen in the past......but, forbids it here. Just bugs me.

* The chill & cold of NYC. It's wonderful to see in any film. The morning when he's set to leave for Vegas is a fine scene. Everyone on the street is bundled, their breath seen in the air. Early morning, his professor is still asleep, such a bit of intimate information that Mike lends to his GF as he explains his request that she give the professor the package ($). He's concerned, there is a moment of trepidation that it get to his mentor, but, trusts this girl implicitly. And she assures him......"You could always count on me, Mike."

* The debt that is owed Worm by Mike because Worm took the fall and the prison time alone. That tells you a lot about Worm and about Mike. It will (continue) to haunt Mike.

[SpursforSix]

* The part where they go to NJ to gamble is filler that didn't need to be shot.

Disagree. Mike's gf just checked out in him. Instead of sulking or trying to get her back, he does what he knows how to do. He confirms that this is who he is. I love the scene...know what makes me happy when I'm down...rolled up Aces over eights...etc....stacks of checks so high that I can't see over them....lets go play some fucking cards...then then the guarded excitement from Worm.

Also another chance for Turturro to put in more excellent short work. And some narration from Mike explaining the difference between pros and the wannabe weekend players.

It's an entertaining scene choice and as good as any for a spot for Worm to begin to tell Mike the extent of his troubles.

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^Solid points, SS.

[DMC]

Dale you got carried away a bit. Rounders was an ok movie. Malkovich and Turturro made the movie, Damon could have been any smart ass kid. He was basically Will Hunting playing cards.

[SpursforSix]

Dale you got carried away a bit. Rounders was an ok movie. Malkovich and Turturro made the movie, Damon could have been any smart ass kid. He was basically Will Hunting playing cards.

No way Jose. The more you watch it, the more you should realize the Malkovich may be the worst acting job in the movie. The first time I watched it, I thought he was brilliant but his over the top Russian gets more tiresome every time, it's all the subtleties in the middle that make this movie hold up. And allow Teddy KGB to get away with his craziness in the end.

[spurraider21]

No way Jose. The more you watch it, the more you should realize the Malkovich may be the worst acting job in the movie. The first time I watched it, I thought he was brilliant but his over the top Russian gets more tiresome every time, it's all the subtleties in the middle that make this movie hold up. And allow Teddy KGB to get away with his craziness in the end.
was about to say, i really wasn't a fan of malkovich in this one

[DMC]

No way Jose. The more you watch it, the more you should realize the Malkovich may be the worst acting job in the movie. The first time I watched it, I thought he was brilliant but his over the top Russian gets more tiresome every time, it's all the subtleties in the middle that make this movie hold up. And allow Teddy KGB to get away with his craziness in the end.

He sucked, too cliche' and didn't even care about the movie but still better than Damon. Damon was Will Hunting. Playing the same character in several movies isn't "good acting". It's just being Matt Damon. The move wasn't that good, that was my point. I don't care about how her hair fell across her shoulder or how he glanced and flared his nostrils. The movie wasn't that entertaining. It just wasn't. Who didn't think Damon would win out?

[Thread]

He sucked, too cliche' and didn't even care about the movie but still better than Damon. Damon was Will Hunting. Playing the same character in several movies isn't "good acting". It's just being Matt Damon. The move wasn't that good, that was my point. I don't care about how her hair fell across her shoulder or how he glanced and flared his nostrils. The movie wasn't that entertaining. It just wasn't. Who didn't think Damon would win out?

He didn't win out. Worm is still holding his marker. That's why Mike insists on playing it straight throughout the movie. If he plays it crooked with Worm then he let Worm take the blame and the prison sentence for nothing. That's why Worm insists on playing it crooked, he already did his time, enough time to last him his lifetime. The professor ran away from his childhood catastrophe, but, as his life comes to an end it's still there right in back of him. Mike can go to Vegas, but, Worm will always be in back of him. Worm knew it---so does Mike.

[SpursforSix]

He sucked, too cliche' and didn't even care about the movie but still better than Damon. Damon was Will Hunting. Playing the same character in several movies isn't "good acting". It's just being Matt Damon. The move wasn't that good, that was my point. I don't care about how her hair fell across her shoulder or how he glanced and flared his nostrils. The movie wasn't that entertaining. It just wasn't. Who didn't think Damon would win out?

Who didn't know that Rocky would beat up Apollo. Or that they wouldn't destroy the Deathstar. Or that Andy wouldn't get out of prison. The good guy almost always wins. That doesn't make for a bad movie. Rounders was great. Did Matt Damon fuck your girlfriend or something?

[Drachen]

Maybe a top 10 for me. At least in terms of rewatchability. Norton's and maybe Damon's best roles IMO. Norton is perfectly cast and I don't think he had to go too far form home to play the smartass asshole.

9/10 for me. Every character from top to bottom captures the screen and has something that makes you want to watch them. Every scene has a sharp beginning and end that you can watch is satisfying short chunks if it happens to be on.

Love this movie, but Norton's best role? American history X? Heck, even death to smoochy is good (though I might be biased because the movie as a whole is fun.)

[DMC]

He didn't win out. Worm is still holding his marker. That's why Mike insists on playing it straight throughout the movie. If he plays it crooked with Worm then he let Worm take the blame and the prison sentence for nothing. That's why Worm insists on playing it crooked, he already did his time, enough time to last him his lifetime. The professor ran away from his childhood catastrophe, but, as his life comes to an end it's still there right in back of him. Mike can go to Vegas, but, Worm will always be in back of him. Worm knew it---so does Mike.
That's a narrative you created yourself. The movie shows he beats KGB and goes to Vegas. That's winning out. You don't have to be in perfect resonance to win out.

[DMC]

Who didn't know that Rocky would beat up Apollo. Or that they wouldn't destroy the Deathstar. Or that Andy wouldn't get out of prison. The good guy almost always wins. That doesn't make for a bad movie. Rounders was great. Did Matt Damon fuck your girlfriend or something?
I didn't say it was bad.I said Dale got carried away. It's not the fucking Godfather.

Damon is a shitty actor. He's had great roles, and anyone but anyone could have been Jason Bourne. He wasn't good in Good Will Hunting. Robin was great, Ben was ok, and the rest of the cast was good, but wonder kid with hard edge has been overdone, especially by Matt.

When Matt has tried to play outside his zone, he's been awkward. Even in GWH you could see him almost mouthing Robin's lines.

[Darius McCrary]

So would or wouldn't you go in dry on Famke?

[JMarkJohns]

You keep saying Damon was Will Hunting in Rounders.

But Will Hunting was a smartass prick more align with Worm.

I like Rounders. I own it. I watch it occasionally.

I'm not going to say it's as perfect as some are saying, but what you're saying is flat out wrong. Damon is broken from the opening credits. It's simply not a "win out" story. It's a complicated mess of an existence, one that's already seen him lose everything, and we as an audience participate in several of his lost battles, from the fact he can't say no to Worm, to the loss vs the Cops, to the loss vs Teddy...

I simply don't see the same film you see. It's not an underdog story. It's a dogfighting story. One that's seen Mike beaten and bloodied, left abandoned, and penniless.

Sure, there are glints of cliche, but Damon simply wasn't some rebrand of Will Hunting, and while he wasn't Oscar material the way Norton probably could have been, his version of a self-confident, almost-was-turned-loser of money, of girl, of career, of almost life-turned Victor wasn't as trite as you suggest.

[JMarkJohns]

And, by the way, Cub is one of the best viewers of nuance in a film that I can ever recall. Going back 15 years, he and I used to talk films, and I was always amazed at how he could pull something out of a scene, and I'd completely get it with his words.

His thoughts on Stand By Me are perfect.

That's always been in my top-10 films, and upon rewatching it after Cub's commentary last year, damned if I didn't love it more.

So, maybe the question isn't what you are seeing, but what you're not seeing that Cub is, and why you can't appreciate it on the same or similar level?

It really does sound like you're just a Damon hater.

There's literally just one seen where Damon even comes close, and that is where he's chiding Turturro for not having the balls to bet big. He's that character out of frustration, driven to be a cornered dog out of desperation/fear, saying anything to get help, not because he's a smart-ass prick who psycho-analyzes everyone for weaknesses so as to always have the upper hand- even if that last sentence is literally the very thing he does when playing poker.

Nuance...

[DMC]

You keep saying Damon was Will Hunting in Rounders.

But Will Hunting was a smartass prick more align with Worm.

I like Rounders. I own it. I watch it occasionally.

I'm not going to say it's as perfect as some are saying, but what you're saying is flat out wrong. Damon is broken from the opening credits. It's simply not a "win out" story. It's a complicated mess of an existence, one that's already seen him lose everything, and we as an audience participate in several of his lost battles, from the fact he can't say no to Worm, to the loss vs the Cops, to the loss vs Teddy...

I simply don't see the same film you see. It's not an underdog story. It's a dogfighting story. One that's seen Mike beaten and bloodied, left abandoned, and penniless.

Sure, there are glints of cliche, but Damon simply wasn't some rebrand of Will Hunting, and while he wasn't Oscar material the way Norton probably could have been, his version of a self-confident, almost-was-turned-loser of money, of girl, of career, of almost life-turned Victor wasn't as trite as you suggest.
And Will Hunting, beaten by his step father, feels tied to his brother who's nowhere near the mental talent he is, capacity for greatness but clings to parts of his life that hold him back. Sure he's a smartass kid, but Damon wasn't much more than that in Rounders.

The similarities are undeniable. In fact, many if not most of his roles are basically that character with minor tweaks. The Talented Mr Ripley is the exception, and he was ok in Capote. Still, he's a preppy faced kid with a smirk who's a hidden genius, mind reader, card shark, super black ops bad ass.. basically he's the "other" Tom Cruise.

[DMC]

And, by the way, Cub is one of the best viewers of nuance in a film that I can ever recall. Going back 15 years, he and I used to talk films, and I was always amazed at how he could pull something out of a scene, and I'd completely get it with his words.

His thoughts on Stand By Me are perfect.

That's always been in my top-10 films, and upon rewatching it after Cub's commentary last year, damned if I didn't love it more.

So, maybe the question isn't what you are seeing, but what you're not seeing that Cub is, and why you can't appreciate it on the same or similar level?

It really does sound like you're just a Damon hater.

There's literally just one seen where Damon even comes close, and that is where he's chiding Turturro for not having the balls to bet big. He's that character out of frustration, driven to be a cornered dog out of desperation/fear, saying anything to get help, not because he's a smart-ass prick who psycho-analyzes everyone for weaknesses so as to always have the upper hand- even if that last sentence is literally the very thing he does when playing poker.

Nuance...
Just because you agree with him doesn't mean he's not getting carried away. Pulling things out of films is basically that they don't exist. It's like an exuberant exegesis for Dr Seuss leading to writing of a simple screen play and culminating in some Shakespearean drama. The drama could be very moving, but it doesn't necessarily describe the book very well.

[Thread]

That's a narrative you created yourself. The movie shows he beats KGB and goes to Vegas. That's winning out. You don't have to be in perfect resonance to win out.

That's the essence of winning out.

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So would or wouldn't you go in dry on Famke?

That's what Mike did and he still can't get rid of her. She's a hanger on.

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Love this movie, but Norton's best role? American history X? Heck, even death to smoochy is good (though I might be biased because the movie as a whole is fun.)

But, X is sell out. Vinyard only sells out because he is raped and tired of prison. He gives it all back. His father is still murdered by blacks. His mother still brought a motherfucker to his father's home, to his table. Minorities have still sacked his childhood & childhood home. But, because he's raped he yells "uncle." He condemns Cameron for doing what he proceeds to do.

*The Balk girl is hot in this though, by God. Those eyes. Sweet Jesus.

[Blake]

I like the Norton movie with DeNiro where he pretended to go full retard.

Or am I thinking he went full phony retard with Richard Gere instead of DeNiro....I'll have to look it up

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I like the Norton movie with DeNiro where he pretended to go full retard.

Or am I thinking he went full phony retard with Richard Gere instead of DeNiro....I'll have to look it up

LOL. Forgot about that one. It's the DeNiro one. But, that is the only redeeming quality in that film, but, it's enough. GD, lmfao!!!

SPOILER---Addendum:::DeNiro is the outside guy and Norton is the inside guy on a robbery of a priceless scepter. They're successful and Norton runs off with the goods thinking he's outsmarted DeNiro. Gets to a pay phone calls him to bust his snuts and DeNiro tells him to look him to look in the backpack that DeNiro handed him. It's not the scepter, but, just a steel rod.

Christ, I saw that in the theatre. Big, BIG buildup, but, just pedestrian fare.

EDIT:::I remembered Brando doing a cameo, so, I checked it and he did, but, it was ridiculous. Brando by an indoor pool, wrapped in a king size sheet, corpulent, mumbling about some silly shit like Splits does here.

[Blake]

Yeah I remember Brando sitting there by the pool. Only thing missing for him was Princess Leia on a chain

[Thread]

Yeah I remember Brando sitting there by the pool. Only thing missing for him was Princess Leia on a chain

And you're also correct on the Gere film. Norton isn't retarded there, just brain addled. Also a fake to get away with murder this time. And again the only redeeming quality of an otherwise stale film.

[SpursforSix]

And you're also correct on the Gere film. Norton isn't retarded there, just brain addled. Also a fake to get away with murder this time. And again the only redeeming quality of an otherwise stale film.

Gere is a terrible actor. He's infinitely worse than Costner.

I can't think of anything I liked him in. Maybe Internal Affairs was his best work because the character was so insincere that Gere's bad acting fit the role.

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Gere is a terrible actor. He's infinitely worse than Costner.

I can't think of anything I liked him in. Maybe Internal Affairs was his best work because the character was so insincere that Gere's bad acting fit the role.

But, he does excel in "American Gigolo." That was a difficult assignment and he nailed it. The character is out of his element/accused of murder & out of his league/targeted by an extremely aggressive and savvy LA detective. Then to complicate matters he's ruthlessly undermined by a fellow gigolo (the black guy). Gere cannot come off as cool & collected as he battles multiple demons. And he doesn't. He's fucked and he doesn't grasp that until it's too late, like any "honest" fellow in his position would. Christ, he had absolutely everything going his way and it completely falls apart in a matter of days.

I like him there, SS.

[SpursforSix]

But, he does excel in "American Gigolo." That was a difficult assignment and he nailed it. The character is out of his element/accused of murder & out of his league/targeted by an extremely aggressive and savvy LA detective. Then to complicate matters he's ruthlessly undermined by a fellow gigolo (the black guy). Gere cannot come off as cool & collected as he battles multiple demons. And he doesn't. He's fucked and he doesn't grasp that until it's too late, like any "honest" fellow in his position would. Christ, he had absolutely everything going his way and it completely falls apart in a matter of days.

I like him there, SS.

It's been so long since I saw that and I was pretty young. So maybe you're right. I don't know. I've enjoyed a handful of his movies but prop because of the script or cast...not Gere. The Chinese thing was good I Think. Then something where he was dying or his love interest was dying. Something else where he was an attorney. Pretty woman was good despite Gere and Roberts. He just can't pull of a sincere line IMO.

[SpursforSix]

It's been so long since I saw that and I was pretty young. So maybe you're right. I don't know. I've enjoyed a handful of his movies but prop because of the script or cast...not Gere. The Chinese thing was good I Think. Then something where he was dying or his love interest was dying. Something else where he was an attorney. Pretty woman was good despite Gere and Roberts. He just can't pull of a sincere line IMO.

Looked up the IMDB list. I actually liked him in Cotton Club.

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Looked up the IMDB list. I actually liked him in Cotton Club.

I didn't care for CC. I thought it was frazzled & fractured.