Spurs Salaries: 2015-2016 Edition

[Chinook]

2015-2016 Salaries:

Guaranteed:
LaMarcus Aldridge $19,689,000
Kawhi Leonard $16,407,500
Tony Parker $13,437,500
Danny Green $10,000,000
Boris Diaw $7,500,000
Tim Duncan $5,250,000
Patty Mills $3,578,947
Manu Ginobili $2,814,000
David West $1,499,187
Boban Marjanovic $1,200,000
Kyle Anderson $1,142,879
Matt Bonner $947,276
Jonathan Simmons $525,093
Andre Miller $250,750
Kevin Martin $200,600

Guaranteed Salaries for Waived Players
Jimmer Fredette (waived) $507,711
Ray McCallum (waived) $947,276
Rasual Butler (waived) $947,276


Total (all guaranteed at this point): $86,844,995
2015-2016 salary cap: $70,000,000 ($16,844,995 over the cap)
2015-2016 luxury tax threshold: $84,740,000 ($2,104,995 over the tax)

I’ll just pay homage to Bruno by quoting his explanation of the tax:


The Luxury Tax:

What is the luxury tax?
The luxury tax is a mechanism whose first goal is to reduce the differences between the richest and the poorest franchises by penalizing teams that overspend the others teams. Penalties have considerably raise with the new CBA to make it very expensive for teams to go way over the luxury tax threshold.
For more details, check Larry Coon's CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21) .

The triple penalty system:
A team above the tax is three time penalized. First, they had to pay the luxury tax. Second, they don't get a share of the luxury tax money given by the NBA to teams. Third, it makes it more likely to have to pay the repeater tax in the future.
The last two effects push teams that are just above the tax threshold to go under it.

Remaining financial flexibility for 2015-2016:

Lol, none. That’s what happens when you wait forever to do this.


2016 free agency:

Here’s where the Spurs stand financially going into next summer:

Guaranteed (No Option):
LaMarcus Aldridge $20,575,005
Kawhi Leonard $17,638,063
Tony Parker $14,445,313
Danny Green $10,000,000
Patty Mills $3,578,948
Kyle Anderson $1,192,080
Boris Diaw $3,000,000

Total $70,429,409

Non-guaranteed (No option):
Boris Diaw $4,000,000
Jonathan Simmons $874,636

Total $4,874,636

Player Options:
Tim Duncan $5,643,750
Manu Ginobili $2,940,630
David West $1,551,659

Total $10,136,039

Qualifying Offers:
Boban Marjanovic $1,500,000

Total $1,500,000

Cap Holds:
Matt Bonner $980,431
Andre Miller $980,431
Kevin Martin $980,431
Rasual Butler $980,431 (Yes, Butler still counts.)

Total $3,921,724

Draft Picks and Stashed Guys:

29th pick $983,400
Nikola Milutinov $991,600
Livio Jean-Charles $893,500

Total $2,868,500

Projected 2016-2017 salary cap: $92 Million
Projected 2016-2017 luxury tax threshold: $110.8 Million

There are really two paths the Spurs will have to choose between this summer. They’ll either patch whatever holes form on their roster and focus on 2017 for their next free-agent rodeo or they’ll try to create as much cap as they can to get another big name. Very likely there will be some mix between these paths, but they’ll likely be significantly closer to one than the other. Let’s go over both of these paths:

Path 1
It's pretty boring. I’m assuming the team has Tim and Manu returning and not trading away or waiving anyone. The team would have about $89 Million in total salary if they use their pick and add LJC. Add in the $6 Million or so for the MLE and the $2 Million for the LLE, and you don’t have cap space even if the cap is significantly higher than projected like it was this year.

Path 2

Pretty exciting and a little scary. It supposes that both Tim and Manu retire without taking any of their salary for next season. West opts out but doesn’t necessarily retire. The Spurs then waive and stretch Diaw while finding a way to stash their picks or use them in trades. They don’t give Boban a QO, and they renounce all of their free agents. That gets them to $68,904,045. They have to have five roster charges of $543,471 each for a total of $2,717,355.

That gets them to $71,621,400 in total, or about $20,378,600 in available space. That’s not enough for any max contract, though it’s very close for guys like Whiteside. I’m not sure what that buys in a previous year, but this summer, it probably won’t buy much. If the cap is a couple million higher, it would be enough for a full max for Whiteside, but I’m pretty unconvinced that he’d be a good use of money. There are others like Clarkson and Sullinger who could be had potentially, but they’re RFAs and won’t necessarily be good value either. Best hope is to get a couple of really good players if you want to go this route without trading away anyone else.

Bottom line is that it’s even less likely that the Spurs will have the ability to sign a big-name player this summer than it was last year. With so many teams having space, players simply won’t have to take less. It would require even bigger personnel sacrifices to get the space, and that’s even harder to swallow given that this idea relies on losing three of the most cost-effective players on the roster.

[Kawhitstorm]

That gets them to $71,621,400 in total, or about $20,378,600 in available space. That’s not enough for any max contract, though it’s very close for guys like Whiteside. I’m not sure what that buys in a previous year, but this summer, it probably won’t buy much. If the cap is a couple million higher, it would be enough for a full max for Whiteside, but I’m pretty unconvinced that he’d be a good use of money. There are others like Clarkson and Sullinger who could be had potentially, but they’re RFAs and won’t necessarily be good value either.

There is no way PATFO are giving a knuckle-head like Whiteside anything close to a max contract.:lol (Could cuck the Worriers by signing Ezeli to an offer-sheet though)


Best hope is to get a couple of really good players if you want to go this route without trading away anyone else.

Joakim Noah on line-1 b/c your boy Horford is getting a supermax contract.:lol

I'm actually more interested on how PATFO tackle the point guard situation whether be it through the draft, FA or trades. I feel like Kyle & maybe K-Mart can makeup for the loss of Manu, plus someone like Mayo can be had for cheap.

Best case senario if Tim/Manu retire:

Draft GP II
Sign Noah/Mayo(only if he's dirt cheap)
Re-sign K-Mart
Replace Bonner w/ Bertans (or Leuer)
Should have enough money to re-sign Boban (otherwise sign Hibbert) or even D-West if he opts-out for a pay raise (MLE?).

[Chinook]

There is no way PATFO are giving a knuckle-head like Whiteside anything close to a max contract.:lol (Could cuck the Worriers by signing Ezeli to an offer-sheet though)

I agree about Whiteside. I don't want him. Just saying that he's the rare UFA that the Spurs could potentially afford to max out. Would much rather roll with Sullinger, though, as he is likely to cost half as much as those other guys and is a good fit with LMA. Just pointing out what the Spurs can pay for next summer, and what they'd have to sacrifice to do it.


I'm actually more interested on how PATFO tackle the point guard situation whether be it through the draft, FA or trades. I feel like Kyle & maybe K-Mart can makeup for the loss of Manu, plus someone like Mayo can be had for cheap.

I think they're hoping Anderson and Mills can lead the bench with someone sliding between them who compliments their strengths. A three-and-D guy would make a ton of sense.

[Kawhitstorm]

I think they're hoping Anderson and Mills can lead the bench with someone sliding between them who compliments their strengths. A three-and-D guy would make a ton of sense.

I wouldn't mind Courtney Lee if he can be had for the MLE (considering he's having a pretty ordinary season that should be his market value). It probably depends on how K-Mart fares in the postseason on whether they keep K-Mart & sign some vet min type guy like Mayo (considering his shitty season, he's in the same shoe as Gerald Green this past summer:lol) or get a legit 3&D guy like Lee.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for doing this Chinook!!!! :tu
I always have trouble with cap issues!
Frankly looking at that list the Boris Diaw is overpaid. He's our 5th highest paid player but hasn't been playing like it. You would think he should be producing like a 6th man.

[sasaint]

Chinook, I believe your assumptions are wrong for Path 1. Manu was set to retire last off-season. He came back because the team said they wanted him back. I do not believe we would try to convince him to return next season. We have some guys in the wings that we need to give more floor time to. In particular, the development of Kyle will suffer if Manu returns.

I also believe Tim will probably not return as a player by his own choice. And I believe that Diaw will not return by the Team's choice. At any rate, we stood pat last season, and it turned out to be a big mistake. I doubt we make a similar mistake this off-season.

[Chinook]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), I believe your assumptions are wrong for Path 1. Manu was set to retire last off-season. He came back because the team said they wanted him back. I do not believe we would try to convince him to return next season. We have some guys in the wings that we need to give more floor time to. In particular, the development of Kyle will suffer if Manu returns.

I also believe Tim will probably not return as a player by his own choice. And I believe that Diaw will not return by the Team's choice. At any rate, we stood pat last season, and it turned out to be a big mistake. I doubt we make a similar mistake this off-season.

Sounds then like you're just saying that you think Path 2 is more likely. That's fine. Remember that these paths show what I believe are the cap-space amounts the team would have at either extreme. They can and will do something at least slightly different from these two scenarios, but the cap space will most likely fall between these two numbers, provided the cap isn't even higher than the projections.

[sasaint]

Sounds then like you're just saying that you think Path 2 is more likely. That's fine. Remember that these paths show what I believe are the cap-space amounts the team would have at either extreme. They can and will do something at least slightly different from these two scenarios, but the cap space will most likely fall between these two numbers, provided the cap isn't even higher than the projections.

I did not grasp that from your initial post. I am not sure which Path will be closer to the paths you set forth. I personally tend toward a fairly radical path even beyond Path 2. But the Spurs are typically very conservative when it comes to roster moves. I expect us to make a couple of mid-level FA signings to compensate for the loss of Manu, Tim and possibly Diaw. Marjanovic is still an unknown to me. I don't remember any Spur about whom I was so ambivalent. One day I like to think he is a legitimate NBA center that we need to hold on to. The next day I think that letting him go and signing Hibbert would be a nice upgrade.

[SAGirl]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), I believe your assumptions are wrong for Path 1. Manu was set to retire last off-season. He came back because the team said they wanted him back. I do not believe we would try to convince him to return next season. We have some guys in the wings that we need to give more floor time to. In particular, the development of Kyle will suffer if Manu returns.

I also believe Tim will probably not return as a player by his own choice. And I believe that Diaw will not return by the Team's choice. At any rate, we stood pat last season, and it turned out to be a big mistake. I doubt we make a similar mistake this off-season.

I agree with you on Manu.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm just really glad the Spurs went all in last summer and can avoid the shitshow free agency will be this summer.

[Luxic]

Just minor note: there's actually no cap hold for Butler. Waived players are renounced, which means no FA rights on them (be it Bird, Early Bird or Non-Bird) and consequently no cap hold.

[CGD]

Thanks for this helpful primer. Would enjoy it when Bruno did it back in the day, so this was a welcome sight.

not only is 20m not enough for a max player, their arent really any players out there worth the max this off season. The only one that would is KD (i only mention bc of the recent "rumor") and i imagine the Spurs would have to Taigo Danny this summer to get the space.

I don't think option 1 is that boring so long as the Spurs bring in LJC and Bertans. Would be exciting to see what a few eager rooks can bring to the team.

[DPG21920]

Chinook what is the best site for salaries that shows accurately the options/guarantees/etc..? I was using Shamsports but now I have not found a go to site since that went down.

[ace3g]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) what is the best site for salaries that shows accurately the options/guarantees/etc..? I was using Shamsports but now I have not found a go to site since that went down.

I found good information here:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/

[SAGirl]

I did not grasp that from your initial post. I am not sure which Path will be closer to the paths you set forth. I personally tend toward a fairly radical path even beyond Path 2. But the Spurs are typically very conservative when it comes to roster moves. I expect us to make a couple of mid-level FA signings to compensate for the loss of Manu, Tim and possibly Diaw. Marjanovic is still an unknown to me. I don't remember any Spur about whom I was so ambivalent. One day I like to think he is a legitimate NBA center that we need to hold on to. The next day I think that letting him go and signing Hibbert would be a nice upgrade.
Wow sasaint with the Nostradamus-like prediction!!! :tu
This was a pretty accurate middle of the season prediction still not to its full conclusion, but pretty spot on.

[SAGirl]

Chinook this thread continues to be super helpful considering our postseason struggles and farther time cat h ing on to Timmy it is time for path 2. :tu

[Kawhitstorm]

Path 2

Pretty exciting and a little scary. It supposes that both Tim and Manu retire without taking any of their salary for next season. West opts out but doesn’t necessarily retire. The Spurs then waive and stretch Diaw while finding a way to stash their picks or use them in trades. They don’t give Boban a QO, and they renounce all of their free agents. That gets them to $68,904,045. They have to have five roster charges of $543,471 each for a total of $2,717,355.

That gets them to $71,621,400 in total, or about $20,378,600 in available space. That’s not enough for any max contract, though it’s very close for guys like Whiteside. I’m not sure what that buys in a previous year, but this summer, it probably won’t buy much. If the cap is a couple million higher, it would be enough for a full max for Whiteside, but I’m pretty unconvinced that he’d be a good use of money. There are others like Clarkson and Sullinger who could be had potentially, but they’re RFAs and won’t necessarily be good value either. Best hope is to get a couple of really good players if you want to go this route without trading away anyone else.

Bottom line is that it’s even less likely that the Spurs will have the ability to sign a big-name player this summer than it was last year. With so many teams having space, players simply won’t have to take less. It would require even bigger personnel sacrifices to get the space, and that’s even harder to swallow given that this idea relies on losing three of the most cost-effective players on the roster.

It seems like PATFO are going to target Conley & clear cap space by dumping Diaw/Porker's contract ala the Tiago/LMA transaction but maybe get a 1st rd pick out of it like Danny Ainge did for Pierce/KG's corpse.:lol

They would still have the Room Exception to sign Pau & 10-12 mill to sign a backup wing/center (Courtney Lee/Mozgov?)

Pau/Mozgov
LMA/West?
Kawhi/Kyle
Danny/Lee
Conley/Patty

[SAGirl]

^^
Well Manu's recent article in La Nacion http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1899804-necesito-liberar-la-mente-ahora-mi-meta-es-rio-2016-la-columna-de-manu?sitio=desktop leaves open the real possibility of a return. Obviously Pop wants them back. Timmy didn't look good the 2nd part of the season and he's uncertain but there is a possibility he returns too. that would be path 1.

I see the guy likeliest to get waived/stretched/traded to be Diaw. They will make what improvements they can, maybe Gasol, maybe someone else, but no big additions. I do see Bertans being brought in bc we need shooting badly. Maybe someone else. Less sure on LJC than Chinook is but he's a possibility. I hope we draft one of the guards, Malcolm Brogdon is fine or a few others could also be candidates. I liked Dejontey Murray to replace Manu, eventually. Has a Jamal Crawford type game. Anyways there are different possibilities.

Spurs will have to hope for some internal improvement from their younger guys in the upcoming season too bc it's impossible to fill all our needs in FA. Some cheap young legs need to come from our stashed guys (one or two of Bertans/LJC/Lalanne/any others?). I remain ever hopeful Kyle will improve on what really would be his full second season with the team (first season spent almost entirely in the dleague didn't offer the experience he got this season). Guys usually improve in a 2nd season in the NBA and in the Spurs system. LMA and Kawhi a second season together gives them chemistry and opportunities for Pop to evaluate what they did well and where they struggled.

It would still be hopefully a younger team with Timmy and Manu in more supportive than prominent roles. We shall see.

[Kawhitstorm]

^^
Well Manu's recent article in La Nacion http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1899804-necesito-liberar-la-mente-ahora-mi-meta-es-rio-2016-la-columna-de-manu?sitio=desktop leaves open the real possibility of a return. Obviously Pop wants them back. Timmy didn't look good the 2nd part of the season and he's uncertain but there is a possibility he returns too. that would be path 1.

Conley can still be acquired if PATFO dumps Porker/Diaw. The MLE will always be there for Pau no matter which path they choose. Essentially, instead of Mozgov/Lee you would have Tim/Manu. Maybe, use the LLE to pick up Mayo since Manu can't be a full-time backup.

[Chinook]

Conley can still be acquired if PATFO dumps Porker/Diaw. The MLE will always be there for Pau no matter which path they choose. Essentially, instead of Mozgov/Lee you would have Tim/Manu. Maybe, use the LLE to pick up Mayo since Manu can't be a full-time backup.

That's not the way it works. The MLE is only available to those who don't use cap space.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's not the way it works. The MLE is only available to those who don't use cap space.

^ This.

Also, isn't it highly probable that the cap will exceed the $92 mil that's been the expected figure for a while. I've read it could get to $95 mil. The higher it is, the more options it gives the Spurs to be aggressive in their approach.

[Kawhitstorm]

That's not the way it works. The MLE is only available to those who don't use cap space.

I forgot about that, they could still dangle him the Room Exception.

[Chinook]

I'm updating my cap projection to be $19,140,513 assuming a $92-Million cap. This is under a scenario where everyone opts out who can and is either let go or re-signed to the min/room exception with Diaw being waived and stretched. The difference in this projection is that I allowed for the team to use their pick and to bring over at least two players. I think it's more realistic to have them adding young talent.

[CGD]

I see the scenario where Tim, Manu, and West opt out but all resign (Bird former two, and another 1+1 vet minimum deal for latter) after the Spurs make their capspace moves.

Also, I do wonder if instead of waiving Diaw they try to trade him, for example, if there is any truth to the Robinson rumblings something like Jack/Robinson for
Boris.

[cjw]

I'm updating my cap projection to be $19,140,513 assuming a $92-Million cap. This is under a scenario where everyone opts out who can and is either let go or re-signed to the min/room exception with Diaw being waived and stretched. The difference in this projection is that I allowed for the team to use their pick and to bring over at least two players. I think it's more realistic to have them adding young talent.

Bringing over young players isn't a huge cost either in terms of cap space, as it removes those $544k roster charges. Essentially whatever you pay them less $544k. None of them is in Splitter's boat of having to offer a lot of money to pry them away from Europe.

What type of money would it take to sign Bertans (most likely to sign next year) and others? I know there are differences with the first rounders (making some harder to bring over if they have big buyout clauses ... LJC, Milutinov) and seconds too.

[Chinook]

Bringing over young players isn't a huge cost either in terms of cap space, as it removes those $544k roster charges. Essentially whatever you pay them less $544k. None of them is in Splitter's boat of having to offer a lot of money to pry them away from Europe.

What type of money would it take to sign Bertans (most likely to sign next year) and others? I know there are differences with the first rounders (making some harder to bring over if they have big buyout clauses ... LJC, Milutinov) and seconds too.

If you recall, the previous projection was $20.4 Million, so this isn't a huge difference. I essentially used the holds for all three of the team's outstanding first-rounders (29, LJC and Milutinov), which are a little over $900k each. So you add up the three increases, and you get the differential.

As far as Bertans is concerned, I think he will get something near $3M/3. He's not THAT good of a player in Europe. I don't think he's currently making more than the rookie min right now. Second-rounders don't have rookie scales, so teams can sign them to whatever contracts they want, so the Spurs can give him a three- or four-year deal for however little Bertans will accept over the min, provided they use cap space or the MLE. That first year would probably be guaranteed, as that is pretty customary with contracts structured that way. Similarly, I think they would give Cady a three-year deal starting at the min with perhaps that first year being guaranteed to reward him for going to Austin last season. Bertans' deal would count nearly the same as a first-rounder's, so swapping him out for Milutinov or LJC keeps the cap situation the same, whereas Cady's would have no effect on the cap.

LJC doesn't have a buyout, as he's a pending free agent. This is also why I feel he's extremely likely to come over, as he now has all of the leverage. Milutinov has two more years in Greece, but I am pretty sure his buyouts are affordable.

[cjw]

If you recall, the previous projection was $20.4 Million, so this isn't a huge difference. I essentially used the holds for all three of the team's outstanding first-rounders (29, LJC and Milutinov), which are a little over $900k each. So you add up the three increases, and you get the differential.

As far as Bertans is concerned, I think he will get something near $3M/3. He's not THAT good of a player in Europe. I don't think he's currently making more than the rookie min right now. Second-rounders don't have rookie scales, so teams can sign them to whatever contracts they want, so the Spurs can give him a three- or four-year deal for however little Bertans will accept over the min, provided they use cap space or the MLE. That first year would probably be guaranteed, as that is pretty customary with contracts structured that way. Similarly, I think they would give Cady a three-year deal starting at the min with perhaps that first year being guaranteed to reward him for going to Austin last season. Bertans' deal would count nearly the same as a first-rounder's, so swapping him out for Milutinov or LJC keeps the cap situation the same, whereas Cady's would have no effect on the cap.

LJC doesn't have a buyout, as he's a pending free agent. This is also why I feel he's extremely likely to come over, as he now has all of the leverage. Milutinov has two more years in Greece, but I am pretty sure his buyouts are affordable.

Given LJC is a FA, that changes things a bit. Thought he was a year or two from being ready to come over, but he likely gets sent to Austin. As the 28th pick, looks like it's $990,700 based on this year's math (and under $1.1 million for first three years ... very cheap albeit over the minimum). Milutinov is barely above that though he's likely in Europe another year, and the 29th pick is below that. Add up LJC, 29th and Bertans at $3 million for three roster spots, and it would cost the Spurs ~$1.5 million more than the minimum holds. Could make a small difference on the margin, but at some point they need to see what they have over in Europe and it's the only way to get younger.

Hanga had a good year over in Europe but not sure the Spurs want to roll with Anderson-Simmons-LJC-Hanga backing up Leonard and Green if Manu hangs it up.

[CGD]

Too early to update the cap availability projections for the summer of 2017?

[Chinook]

Too early to update the cap availability projections for the summer of 2017?

A bit. Have to see who else is signed and wait until the cap numbers even out. Should have between $42 Million and $23 Million depending on options, though.

[CGD]

A bit. Have to see who else is signed and wait until the cap numbers even out. Should have between $42 Million and $23 Million depending on options, though.

Interesting; thanks for your work on this stuff

[FireMicoHalili]

Larry Sanders is not an option, no? Too many character issues?

[elemento]

Eric Pincus has updated the Spurs salaries.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

[Chinook]

Eric Pincus has updated the Spurs salaries.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

Thanks. I can't believe Bertans took a pay cut to give Gasol more money.

[elemento]

Thanks. I can't believe Bertans took a pay cut to give Gasol more money.

:tu

Yeah, I appreciate the kid even more.

[CGD]

So it looks like if all options are picked up and there is a projected cap of 103, then there is about 9m in space next summer? That goes up to about 28M if Dedmon and Gasol opt out, which I assume may have been the reasoning for the 1+1.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

If Dedmon and Gasol opt out the Spurs are toast in the middle.

[Chinook]

If Dedmon and Gasol opt out the Spurs are toast in the middle.

Would have enough to max out Noel....

[MaNu4Tres]

Would have enough to max out Noel....

Around the trade deadline, Dedmon + Kyle +1st for Noel? Would you?

[bluebellmaniac]

Around the trade deadline, Dedmon + Kyle +1st for Noel? Would you?

If he's a restricted free agent the next year and you can offer the max, why offer anything?

[Chinook]

Around the trade deadline, Dedmon + Kyle +1st for Noel? Would you?

Probably not. Anderson would have to bomb for that to make sense. Would rather give up Murray instead and just re-sign Mills.

[Chinook]

If he's a restricted free agent the next year and you can offer the max, why offer anything?

Because Philly could match, and you'd have to hope you're the most persuasive even if they don't match. If you have his RFA rights, you know you have him no matter what.

[Kawhitstorm]

If Dedmon and Gasol opt out the Spurs are toast in the middle.

DedMan being irreplaceable :lmao.....just sign 40yr old ChewBaka:wakeup

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Around the trade deadline, Dedmon + Kyle +1st for Noel? Would you?

You don't rate Kyle, but you think an expiring (option), him and a late 1st will be enough to get Noel?

Spurs would do this trade, of course, but Philly will get much better offers. At least a mid 1st pick, even a late lotto one.

[CGD]

Would have enough to max out Noel....

I know it's going to happen, but the notion that he's get maxed is just wild to me.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

trade parkey

[Captivus]

In what scenario do you se Gasol opting out?!!

[adonis827]

In what scenario do you se Gasol opting out?!!

If Gasol played a lot better than his contract. I doubt it.

Otherwise, it would be hard for him to find $15m offer somewhere else.

[Richie]

We can always trade Gasol if we need cap room. I'm all in on George Hill in free agency, he's exactly what we need. Long, quick defender at the point guard position, he can create for himself and others, obviously he fits in the culture here with Pop etc... Perfect replacement for Manu. A backcourt/wing rotation of Hill, Green/Simmons and Kawhi is as good defensively as any in the league.

[elemento]

If Gasol played a lot better than his contract. I doubt it.

Otherwise, it would be hard for him to find $15m offer somewhere else.

Or a scenario where he wants to pay and he is willing to take a paycut for a longer deal, just like Dick Jefferson.

He opts out 15m, then take a 3y/30m deal. If he doesn't plan to retire or play in Europe again, I could see him doing it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Or a scenario where he wants to pay and he is willing to take a paycut for a longer deal, just like Dick Jefferson.

He opts out 15m, then take a 3y/30m deal. If he doesn't plan to retire or play in Europe again, I could see him doing it.

Most guys would go this route, but I can see Gasol being the rare type who'd opt in, instead of chasing the money. He's already got his money and rings and if he really likes it he'd be happy to opt in imo instead of chasing a couple of million more somewhere he might not fit in ( and there are a lot of teams a 37 year old Gasol would not fit in ). I don't see the Spurs giving him a 2 or 3 year contract, don't think they'd want to mess with the 2018 cap space.

[CGD]

No way Gasol opts out dude.

The big off season questions are:

1. How do you keep Dedmon bc he IS opting out?

2. You have full bird to sign Patty, but what price is too high for the team? I'm assuming 4/48 is not an Unreasonable starting point.

3. How do you replace Manus production?

4. Is David Lee going to want one more big deal, or is he good taking a smaller amount to stay?

5. Spurs will extent QO on Simmons but is someone going to bid up his price next summer?

[sasaint]

No way Gasol opts out dude.

The big off season questions are:

1. How do you keep Dedmon bc he IS opting out?

2. You have full bird to sign Patty, but what price is too high for the team? I'm assuming 4/48 is not an Unreasonable starting point.

3. How do you replace Manus production?

4. Is David Lee going to want one more big deal, or is he good taking a smaller amount to stay?

5. Spurs will extent QO on Simmons but is someone going to bid up his price next summer?

Absolutely no way Gasol will opt out.

Big questions:

1. The "Retweet" and Deadman's injury are really clouding the issue. For whatever reason, Pop wasn't giving Deadman as many minutes as many ST "experts" (and others) expected. It will be very interesting to see how Pop uses him and how well he plays when he returns. Right now, with such a small sample size, it is just not clear whether Pop would want Deadman back at any price.

2. Patty's future is pretty complicated, too. He is one of the Spurs' three best 3-point shooters, and his ball-handling skills (though still not elite) have improved greatly. Moreover, in a Spurs' world where the team will likely lose its Big Three in three consecutive years, Patty would suddenly become (along with Danny) the elder statesmen. Patty shows the better leadership skills of the two. During the era of the Big Three the Spurs' corporate knowledge was transmitted through a huge conduit. That pipeline took a huge hit with Timmy's retirement this season. It will take a big hit next season (assuming Manu retires). And will take another hit a the following season (assuming Tony retires). And I would not be surprised to see Patty give the Spurs a hometown discount a la Danny. I tend to think Patty will reach a deal to stay with the Spurs. 4/48 would be excellent value for the Spurs under the new cap.

3. It seems pretty clear that the Spurs hope and/or expect and/or plan for Simmons to assume Manu's role. Otherwise - ?

4. Will any team be willing to offer David Lee a big contract after one year in San Antonio when nobody was this pre-season?

5. Simmons is working very hard on his handles, his passing and his judgment. I am very encouraged by that even though it means that he has largely curbed his high-light reel athletic plays such as the slam dunks. If he gains confidence in his handles/passing/judgment and re-integrates those eye-popping athletic plays into his game, Simmons will be a very nice player worth most of (if not all) of Manu's money. His defensive game is also picking up. So, yeah, the Spurs will extend a QO which another team might bid up. It would have to be pretty steep to prevent the Spurs from matching it.

[Richie]

Pattys salary doesn't matter, the question for free agency is if we can live with his ~$5m cap hold. Normally I'd say that's a no-brainer but if we want George Hill, do we need 3 point guards?

Gasol may or may not opt out, but we can always trade him or stretch him for cap room.

I would love both Dedmon and Lee to opt in but there's a possibility that neither will. If Dedmon wants a bigger payday then I think we let him go, I'm not gonna pay him $10m+ per year. I'd happily give Lee the Room Exception assuming we score a free agent.

[CGD]

Absolutely no way Gasol will opt out.

Big questions:

1. The "Retweet" and Deadman's injury are really clouding the issue. For whatever reason, Pop wasn't giving Deadman as many minutes as many ST "experts" (and others) expected. It will be very interesting to see how Pop uses him and how well he plays when he returns. Right now, with such a small sample size, it is just not clear whether Pop would want Deadman back at any price.

2. Patty's future is pretty complicated, too. He is one of the Spurs' three best 3-point shooters, and his ball-handling skills (though still not elite) have improved greatly. Moreover, in a Spurs' world where the team will likely lose its Big Three in three consecutive years, Patty would suddenly become (along with Danny) the elder statesmen. Patty shows the better leadership skills of the two. During the era of the Big Three the Spurs' corporate knowledge was transmitted through a huge conduit. That pipeline took a huge hit with Timmy's retirement this season. It will take a big hit next season (assuming Manu retires). And will take another hit a the following season (assuming Tony retires). And I would not be surprised to see Patty give the Spurs a hometown discount a la Danny. I tend to think Patty will reach a deal to stay with the Spurs. 4/48 would be excellent value for the Spurs under the new cap.

3. It seems pretty clear that the Spurs hope and/or expect and/or plan for Simmons to assume Manu's role. Otherwise - ?

4. Will any team be willing to offer David Lee a big contract after one year in San Antonio when nobody was this pre-season?

5. Simmons is working very hard on his handles, his passing and his judgment. I am very encouraged by that even though it means that he has largely curbed his high-light reel athletic plays such as the slam dunks. If he gains confidence in his handles/passing/judgment and re-integrates those eye-popping athletic plays into his game, Simmons will be a very nice player worth most of (if not all) of Manu's money. His defensive game is also picking up. So, yeah, the Spurs will extend a QO which another team might bid up. It would have to be pretty steep to prevent the Spurs from matching it.

Good stuff in here.

The other player I'm starting to wonder about is Green. He's a key cog, but I wonder if he'll be the cost of upgrading the backcourt which is frankly hurting. Wonder what a package base on Green/Mill could fetch at the deadline?

[Raven]

We can always trade Gasol if we need cap room. I'm all in on George Hill in free agency, he's exactly what we need. Long, quick defender at the point guard position, he can create for himself and others, obviously he fits in the culture here with Pop etc... Perfect replacement for Manu. A backcourt/wing rotation of Hill, Green/Simmons and Kawhi is as good defensively as any in the league.

sick tbh.. hill, green, kawhi, aldridge, gasol would be a nightmare for anyone

[sasaint]

Pattys salary doesn't matter, the question for free agency is if we can live with his ~$5m cap hold. Normally I'd say that's a no-brainer but if we want George Hill, do we need 3 point guards?

Gasol may or may not opt out, but we can always trade him or stretch him for cap room.

I would love both Dedmon and Lee to opt in but there's a possibility that neither will. If Dedmon wants a bigger payday then I think we let him go, I'm not gonna pay him $10m+ per year. I'd happily give Lee the Room Exception assuming we score a free agent.

Based on the small sample size, if Deadman wants $10MM/Yr I would sign him in a heartbeat. I don't think we will see another free agent of comparable value that we could get for that money.

[sasaint]

Good stuff in here.

The other player I'm starting to wonder about is Green. He's a key cog, but I wonder if he'll be the cost of upgrading the backcourt which is frankly hurting. Wonder what a package base on Green/Mill could fetch at the deadline?

Personally, I would find it hard to part with BOTH Patty and Danny at the same time. If I had a choice, I would hang on to Patty, though.

[Richie]

Good stuff in here.

The other player I'm starting to wonder about is Green. He's a key cog, but I wonder if he'll be the cost of upgrading the backcourt which is frankly hurting. Wonder what a package base on Green/Mill could fetch at the deadline?

We're not giving up two key rotation pieces with playoff experience at the deadline, we're still a contender although not the favorites

[Richie]

Based on the small sample size, if Deadman wants $10MM/Yr I would sign him in a heartbeat. I don't think we will see another free agent of comparable value that we could get for that money.

$10m/yr is a bit high IMO, this is a guy who was on the scrapheap 6 months ago and is playing under 15 min/game. If he's opting out I think we can keep him for $30m/4yr which would be a good deal provided Pop thinks he can contribute for 25min+

[sasaint]

$10m/yr is a bit high IMO, this is a guy who was on the scrapheap 6 months ago and is playing under 15 min/game. If he's opting out I think we can keep him for $30m/4yr which would be a good deal provided Pop thinks he can contribute for 25min+

$30/4 would be a very good deal with the cap going up again. A good part of my evaluation is precisely the fact that Deadman was (ahem) buried only six months ago. Given a good chance on a good team with a good coaching staff, Deadman's ascendance seems, not exactly meteoric, but very impressive. Projecting that same rate into the future makes $10MM/yr under the increased cap seem like a very small gamble. At any rate, I hope the Spurs can come to terms with him. :tu

[CGD]

Has anyone done the 2017 cap projections? Eyeballing it looks like the Spurs will have about 13M in space if Dedmon opts out. one would have to think the likely approach is for Dedmon to get the bulk of that (8M), J. Simmons getting a part (3M), and then a small remainder for a vet/resign Lee (2M). Then the Spurs re-up Mills using bird rights.

[Cklbmk]

Has anyone done the 2017 cap projections? Eyeballing it looks like the Spurs will have about 13M in space if Dedmon opts out. one would have to think the likely approach is for Dedmon to get the bulk of that (8M), J. Simmons getting a part (3M), and then a small remainder for a vet/resign Lee (2M). Then the Spurs re-up Mills using bird rights.


http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/yearly/cap/

Is pretty solid usually. With 102 projected cap would have 13mil~ - Patty and Simmons cap holds which I'm thinking are like 6mil and 1.5mil~ or so

Thats like 5-7mil left.

I could see Lee opting out and getting us another 1mil~ and then resigning after if he was willing to come back

Patty will have to be the first decision unless we part ways with Tony or Gasol.

I guess Danny would be an option too but I lean toward no on that because of his under market value contract and we have no ability to replace him

[CGD]

I don't think Pau opts out, unless there is something good in it for him. I wouldn't be opposed to refinancing his last year to do a 20m/2yr deal. Opens up about 5m in space.

I am not sold on LMA and Pau working together. Plus LMA has underperformed so far essentially making him duplicative. If that holds I'd rather have the cheaper version for the same years, and see what I could get for LMA via trade.

[sasaint]

I don't think Pau opts out, unless there is something good in it for him. I wouldn't be opposed to refinancing his last year to do a 20m/2yr deal. Opens up about 5m in space.

I am not sold on LMA and Pau working together. Plus LMA has underperformed so far essentially making him duplicative. If that holds I'd rather have the cheaper version for the same years, and see what I could get for LMA via trade.

:tu

[Richie]

I don't think Pau opts out, unless there is something good in it for him. I wouldn't be opposed to refinancing his last year to do a 20m/2yr deal. Opens up about 5m in space.

I am not sold on LMA and Pau working together. Plus LMA has underperformed so far essentially making him duplicative. If that holds I'd rather have the cheaper version for the same years, and see what I could get for LMA via trade.

Someone would take Pau from us in a salary dump, even if it meant giving up a second rounder or two. Minnesota wanted him this summer with the Thibs connection, he's an experienced veteran who would be great for a young team to learn from. If we need to room we can move him.

[Kawhitstorm]

$10m/yr is a bit high IMO, this is a guy who was on the scrapheap 6 months ago and is playing under 15 min/game. If he's opting out I think we can keep him for $30m/4yr which would be a good deal provided Pop thinks he can contribute for 25min+

I except Dedmon to give the Spurs a discount ala Patty/Danny.:toast

[CGD]

Why would he give a discount? Anyway, I see anything less than 8M very unlikely for dedmon.

[sasaint]

I except Dedmon to give the Spurs a discount ala Patty/Danny.:toast

I hope you are right, but why would you expect a discount from Deadman?

[cd021]

Why would he give a discount? Anyway, I see anything less than 8M very unlikely for dedmon.

Part of me thinks that his value is being overrated by ST
maybe a team will toss money his way but
a 4 year, $32 million dollar deal seems about right

[Jdspur20]

Question, (since this has to do with salaries) do you think Pop and RC might go after George Hill in FA?
Wonder how much money he would command.
This is of course assuming they find a way to trade tony. Love him, but he's pretty much done.

[I. Hustle]

Question, (since this has to do with salaries) do you think Pop and RC might go after George Hill in FA?
Wonder how much money he would command.
This is of course assuming they find a way to trade tony. Love him, but he's pretty much done.

Answer, you're stupid.

Tony isn't getting traded.

[Jdspur20]

Answer, you're stupid.

Tony isn't getting traded.

You called me stupid over the Internet??? I don't know how I'll recover...

[Chinook]

I was gonna leave this open as per my usual way of handing discussion threads, but this is dead enough to kill immediately.