Sven Mary. Defender of Abdeslam, pedophiles, torture, murder, you name it.

[MultiTroll]

Quite a guy. Defender of Paris bombings Salah Abdeslam. Oh but not just him, read about who he defends for his career.
Makes Johnny Coachroach look like a minor demon.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160320-sven-mary-lawyer-defending-abdeslam

Marc Dutroux, a guy Sven Mary gladly defended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux

It would be so sad if a vigilante made Sven Mary disappear.

[Th'Pusher]

Quite a guy. Defender of Paris bombings Salah Abdeslam. Oh but not just him, read about who he defends for his career.
Makes Johnny Coachroach look like a minor demon.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160320-sven-mary-lawyer-defending-abdeslam

Marc Dutroux, a guy Sven Mary gladly defended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux

It would be so sad if a vigilante made Sven Mary disappear.

He's like a modern day John Adams.

[ChumpDumper]

If you don't believe in the rule of law, get of the internets and be a vigilante yourself.

Your superpower will be confusing people with nonsensical nicknames.

[MultiTroll]

If you don't believe in the rule of law,
Rumpy thinks it is legal to molest and torture children, then let them die.
GTFO.
Stay TFO.

[FromWayDowntown]

Rumpy thinks it is legal to molest and torture children, then let them die.
GTFO.
Stay TFO.

I don't think that's what Chump said.

What Chump questioned you about is whether someone accused of such things -- that is, not yet proven to have done it in a court of law -- should just be presumed guilty and sentenced on your belief in his guilt or whether you actually believe in the rule of law and that those who are merely accused of crimes are entitled to a presumption of innocence until a government proves their guilt (or until they confess to it) and whether those who are merely accused should be allowed to mount legal defenses to the accusations against them.

I realize that you're absolutely certain -- in virtually every case -- of what the outcome should be and that you don't really give a damn about things like constitutional due process or the rule of law, really. That's why Chump suggests that perhaps your better course would be to just become some vigilante who metes out "justice" based solely on your conclusions about that person, drawn from news reports, and without need of proof of a person's guilt.

[FromWayDowntown]

By the way, people like Sven Mary have a very high profile for taking on the defense of cases that seem the most outrageous. You should be happy that those defense lawyers tend to have poor records in terms of avoiding convictions. They tend to operate as foils to the system, ensuring that it is put to the full rigor required instead of just perfunctorily adjudicating someone guilty. But, at the end of the day, most of the guys they defend are proven to have been guilty and frequently without much problem.

[MultiTroll]

^^ yawn. You've tried this tactic before with me on the Aaron Hernandez case.

Here is a direct quote from Sven Mary regarding your defendant Abdeslam:

On March 18, after Abdeslam had been arrested but before Mary took up his defense, Mary expressed an interest in Abdeslam’s case. He clarified, however, that he wouldn’t represent Abdeslam if the suspect tried to argue that he hadn’t participated in the Paris attacks.
“That would bore me and I wouldn’t defend him,” Mary told L’Express.

[ChumpDumper]

Rumpy thinks it is legal to molest and torture children, then let them die.
GTFO.
Stay TFO.Where did I say it was legal?

Show me a quote from me saying that.

You made some pretty strong accusations against me. You need to back them up.

[SpursforSix]

one hit wonder. But it was a cool one hit at the time.

NjNn4bbbgSw

[FromWayDowntown]

^^ yawn. You've tried this tactic before with me on the Aaron Hernandez case.

Right. We're all down with the fact that you despise due process.

The only test of guilt should be whether Fabbs has decided that someone is guilty. Once Fabbs has made that decision, the defendant should have no defense, there should be no rules of procedure or evidence applicable to him, and the courts should just rubber stamp a guilty verdict and assess punishment.

I guess the good news for guys like you is that President Trump might agree with you.

[ChumpDumper]

Right. We're all down with the fact that you despise due process.

The only test of guilt should be whether Fabbs has decided that someone is guilty. Once Fabbs has made that decision, the defendant should have no defense, there should be no rules of procedure or evidence applicable to him, and the courts should just rubber stamp a guilty verdict and assess punishment.No, Fabbs has to kill them himself.

Since all he does is sit on the net and make up terrible nicknames, crime will run rampant.

Good job, Fabbs. How many children will be molested because of your refusal to kill their attackers?

[MultiTroll]

due process.
If you can stay on thread topic, tell me how "due process" went for the victims in the Marc Dutroux career?
Sven Mary the liarwyer defending him on just one of his many crimes.

Do tell. I provided the link that outlined how it went with "due process."

[Blake]

If you can stay on thread topic, tell me how "due process" went for the victims in the Marc Dutroux career?
Sven Mary the liarwyer defending him on just one of his many crimes.

Do tell. I provided the link that outlined how it went with "due process."

Wow.

[FromWayDowntown]

If you can stay on thread topic, tell me how "due process" went for the victims in the Marc Dutroux career?
Sven Mary the liarwyer defending him on just one of his many crimes.

Do tell. I provided the link that outlined how it went with "due process."

Right. You convince yourself that the guy committed bad crime and you absolve the state of any obligation to prove guilt while denying the guy any chance to defend himself.

You'd make a fine dictator, Kim Jong Fabbs.

[MultiTroll]

Right. You convince yourself that the guy committed bad crime and you absolve the state of any obligation to prove guilt while denying the guy any chance to defend himself.

You'd make a fine dictator, Kim Jong Fabbs.
Classic defense liarwyer twist and avoid.
How did it go with due process in Marc Dutroux?
Deprived of a chance to prove himself innocent? :lmao
Aaron Hernandez deprived? :lmao

[Blake]

MultiJudgeDredd

[FromWayDowntown]

Classic defense liarwyer twist and avoid.
How did it go with due process in Marc Dutroux?
Deprived of a chance to prove himself innocent? :lmao
Aaron Hernandez deprived? :lmao

Aaron Hernandez wasn't deprived. He was given a chance to defend himself, much to your distress, and wasn't able to demonstrate any reasonable doubt to a jury. Apparently, you don't actually trust juries to make those sorts of decisions.

No one should be allowed to risk acquittals where the all-knowing Fabbs is certain of guilt, I guess.

And Dutroux's cases aren't a portrait in the "problems" with due process. Dutroux was convicted upon his first arrest and sentenced to prison. The prison system (which is a different thing altogether from legal concerns for due process) reduced his punishment and released him early. Law enforcement apparently did an abysmal job of investigating justified leads about his post-release conduct, which also isn't about due process and is about shoddy police work. When Dutroux was actually in the justice system and afforded the due process it offered, he was convicted -- twice.

[FromWayDowntown]

Johnny Coachroach


Since all he does is sit on the net and make up terrible nicknames

Johnny Coachroach? Johnny Coachroach.

[clambake]

think there will be any self-reflection generated by this thread?

should be many.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

these sophists remind me of the tactics of the DarrinS account just with a different cause.

[DarrinS]

rent free

[Blake]

Fastest rent free response ever

[FuzzyLumpkins]

rent free

yes without you having to do anything more, events like this make me think you a sophist of the lowest order. you have accomplished so much.

the defender in the san bernardino case sounded just like your platitudes.

[clambake]

rent free

actually perfect timing

[MultiTroll]

And Dutroux's cases aren't a portrait in the "problems" with due process.
The original judge, by all accounts a fair non corrupt judge was *removed* from the case.
Is this part of the due process?

This suspicion that Dutroux had been, or was being, protected was raised when the public became aware of Dutroux's claims that he was part of a sex ring that included high-ranking members of the police force and government.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#cite_note-tobyhelminbrussels-13) This suspicion along with general anger over the outcome culminated when the popular judge in charge of investigating the claims, Jean-Marc Connerotte (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jean-Marc_Connerotte&action=edit&redlink=1) (fr (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marc_Connerotte)), was dismissed on the grounds of having participated in a fund-raising dinner for the girls' parents.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#cite_note-tobyhelminbrussels-13) The investigation itself was wrapped up on grounds of conflict of interests. His dismissal and end of the investigation resulted in a massive protest march (the "White March (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_March)") of 300,000 people on the capital, Brussels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels), in October 1996, two months after Dutroux's arrest, in which demands were made for reforms of Belgium's police and justice system.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#cite_note-14)On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jean-Marc_Connerotte&action=edit&redlink=1) (fr (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marc_Connerotte)), the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#cite_note-tobyhelminbrussels-13) Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure. We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates." Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafia) had taken control of the case.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Dutroux#cite_note-15)

[ChumpDumper]

The original judge, by all accounts a fair non corrupt judge was *removed* from the case.
Is this part of the due process?Yes.

Why would you think it isn't?

[MultiTroll]

Smh Brussels.
So I suppose instead of immediately doing whatever it took to get information out of the little f-er Abdeslam, it was better to pussyfoot around and delay while his liarwyer Sven Mary and *due process* was allowed to block access.

[FromWayDowntown]

Smh Brussels.
So I suppose instead of immediately doing whatever it took to get information out of the little f-er Abdeslam, it was better to pussyfoot around and delay while his liarwyer Sven Mary and *due process* was allowed to block access.

He was being interrogated (and, apparently, was cooperating with authorities in Belgium and had even told them that there were other attacks being planned):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35857388

The attacks in Brussels are ridiculous and tragic and any number of other things. But they weren't because Abdesalam was afforded due process.

[MultiTroll]

He was being interrogated (and, apparently, was cooperating with authorities in Belgium and had even told them that there were other attacks being planned):

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35857388

The attacks in Brussels are ridiculous and tragic and any number of other things. But they weren't because Abdesalam was afforded due process.
Meaning maybe he was, maybe he was not.
I find it hard to believe the lil shitstain did not know about todays attacks.

Also, does France have better interrogation methods then Belgium? I don't know. I'll bet it is entirely possible.
Sven Mary having Abdesalam delay extradition to France.

[FromWayDowntown]

Meaning maybe he was, maybe he was not.
I find it hard to believe the lil shitstain did not know about todays attacks.

Also, does France have better interrogation methods then Belgium? I don't know. I'll bet it is entirely possible.
Sven Mary having Abdesalam delay extradition to France.

So your conjecture is more believable than the actual reporting like this from 2 days ago:



[Belgian Foreign Minister Didier] Reynders cited information that he said had come to light since Abdeslam's arrest.

"He was ready to restart something in Brussels," he told the German Marshall Fund of the United States meeting in the city.

"And it's maybe the reality because we have found a lot of weapons, heavy weapons, in the first investigations and we have found a new network around him in Brussels."

[MultiTroll]

So your conjecture is more believable than the actual reporting like this from 2 days ago:
But did not give enough info to stop the attack. :rolleyes
Are you concluding Abdeslam did not know about todays attack by his fellow terrorists?

[ChumpDumper]

lol Fabbs playing Jack Bauer at work.

So butch....

[FromWayDowntown]

But did not give enough info to stop the attack. :rolleyes
Are you concluding Abdeslam did not know about todays attack by his fellow terrorists?

I'm saying affording him due process didn't stop him from disclosing that there were other attacks being planned.

I have no idea if he knew about these particular attacks or not and I don't know specifically what he told authorities. Neither do you.

[MultiTroll]

I'm saying affording him due process didn't stop him from disclosing that there were other attacks being planned.
Oh really?

"He was ready to restart something in Brussels," he told the German Marshall Fund of the United States meeting in the city.
"And it's maybe the reality because we have found a lot of weapons, heavy weapons, in the first investigations and we have found a new network around him in Brussels."

So maybe Abdeslam cooperated and maybe he didn't.
Or maybe Shitstain knew exactly about todays blast, so gave out a small amount of truthful information to have the Belgium interrogators lighten up while buying time for the blasters to act. Possibly with coaching from Sven Phucktard Liarwyer.
I still say it's entirely possible he knew all about todays blast.

[ChumpDumper]

Fabbs might be outraged.

Maybe.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh really?

"He was ready to restart something in Brussels," he told the German Marshall Fund of the United States meeting in the city.
"And it's maybe the reality because we have found a lot of weapons, heavy weapons, in the first investigations and we have found a new network around him in Brussels."

So maybe Abdeslam cooperated and maybe he didn't.
Or maybe Shitstain knew exactly about todays blast, so gave out a small amount of truthful information to have the Belgium interrogators lighten up while buying time for the blasters to act. Possibly with coaching from Sven Phucktard Liarwyer.
I still say it's entirely possible he knew all about todays blast.

So what would you have done, StalinFabbs?

[DisAsTerBot]

i just want to remind everyone that fabbs has kids. Some woman procreated with him and now he is responsible for small humans.
It's all i can ever think of when he posts.

[MultiTroll]

So what would you have done, LifeValuingFabbs?
Since Abdeslam already admitted guilt in the Paris bombings and his defense liarwyer Sven confirmed thus having due process.....

I would give interrogators leeway to get Stain to talk by whatever means are necessary.
The lives of innocents are thus put at a higher value then whether or not these two stains, Abdeslam and Sven Mary have sore vag's over potential interog methods.

[FromWayDowntown]

Since Abdeslam already admitted guilt in the Paris bombings and his defense liarwyer Sven confirmed thus having due process.....

I would give interrogators leeway to get Stain to talk by whatever means are necessary.
The lives of innocents are thus put at a higher value then whether or not these two stains, Abdeslam and Sven Mary have sore vag's over potential interog methods.

Do you know what interrogation methods were used with Abdesalam? Are you sure that whatever interrogation methods you might support would have actually resulted in actionable, accurate information? Do you know that Abdesalam had knowledge of the specifics of an attack on this particular date at the time he was taken into custody? If you're sure that he did (and that this wasn't pulled off by an unrelated cell) do you know that he didn't reveal that information to authorities?

Again, the reports are that the interrogation methods being used had resulted in Abdesalam talking talking and being cooperative, so it's not as though recognition of his legal rights had prevented anyone from talking to him and its not as though insistence upon his legal rights had caused him to clam up.

[MultiTroll]

Again, the reports are that the interrogation methods being used had resulted in Abdesalam talking talking and being cooperative, so it's not as though recognition of his legal rights had prevented anyone from talking to him and its not as though insistence upon his legal rights had caused him to clam up.
Do you have some addition reports? Because the earlier one you posted merely said maybe he was planning "something". Vague.

Worse yet, not saying this is a fact but check this article regarding the interrogation. Granted, it is Faux News:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/03/22/paris-attackers-interrogation-could-have-given-ideas-to-other-terrorists.html

[ChumpDumper]

Do you have some addition reports? Because the earlier one you posted merely said maybe he was planning "something". Vague.So you want every tidbit of information regarding the interrogation released?


Worse yet, not saying this is a fact but check this article regarding the interrogation. Granted, it is Faux News:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/03/22/paris-attackers-interrogation-could-have-given-ideas-to-other-terrorists.htmlSo releasing information about the interrogation was bad?

Pick a lane.

[MultiTroll]

Rumpy with another thread bump.

[ChumpDumper]

Rumpy with another thread bump.Flabby with another dodge.

You back down so quickly -- how are the terrorist supposed to take you seriously?

[MultiTroll]

Again, the reports are that the interrogation methods being used had resulted in Abdesalam talking talking and being cooperative, so it's not as though recognition of his legal rights had prevented anyone from talking to him and its not as though insistence upon his legal rights had caused him to clam up.
Salah Abdeslam may have intended to take part in an attack being planned by same ISIS cell that carried out Tuesday's bombings in Brussels, a Belgian counterterrorism official tells CNN.

Investigators believe the cell accelerated the plan when Abdeslam's hideout in the Forest district of Brussels was discovered by Belgian police last week.

[FromWayDowntown]

Salah Abdeslam may have intended to take part in an attack being planned by same ISIS cell that carried out Tuesday's bombings in Brussels, a Belgian counterterrorism official tells CNN.

Investigators believe the cell accelerated the plan when Abdeslam's hideout in the Forest district of Brussels was discovered by Belgian police last week.

So, he was afforded due process, and he (apparently, quite likely) told them about this very plan.

What's the problem again?

[MultiTroll]

So, he was afforded due process, and he (apparently, quite likely) told them about this very plan.

What's the problem again?
So they in turn (quite likely) did not try to stop the plan?

[ChumpDumper]

Is there anything concrete you are actually upset about here, Fabbs? You seem to have worked yourself up into a lather over hypotheticals.

I don't expect you to actually answer.

[FromWayDowntown]

So they in turn (quite likely) did not try to stop the plan?

That's not a due process problem, Fabbs. That's a law enforcement problem.

I have no idea why you think that attack is useful evidence in an argument for limiting due process for the accused.

[ElNono]

Even if you consider him to be a POW, it's difficult to say you could do as you wish considering the Geneva convention, etc. I'm sure some people will say "fuck all that, hurr durr Murica, we're the good guys", but I'm also pretty sure the Nazis thought the same thing, and that's why we ended up coming up with the Geneva convention treaties in the first place.

[FromWayDowntown]

Even if you consider him to be a POW, it's difficult to say you could do as you wish considering the Geneva convention, etc. I'm sure some people will say "fuck all that, hurr durr Murica, we're the good guys", but I'm also pretty sure the Nazis thought the same thing, and that's why we ended up coming up with the Geneva convention treaties in the first place.

Geneva Convention? Treaties? Constitutions? Laws?

Pssh. If Saddam Fabbs is sure that a guy did it from reading some stuff on the interwebs, none of that stuff should be available. Period.

[ElNono]

I will say that I understand his frustration... why are we holding such a high bar for ourselves, while they can do whatever? Well, the reason is that we're supposed to be better.

Generalizing here a bit, people are reactionary, it's not just Fabbs, tbh...

[FromWayDowntown]

I will say that I understand his frustration... why are we holding such a high bar for ourselves, while they can do whatever? Well, the reason is that we're supposed to be better.

Generalizing here a bit, people are reactionary, it's not just Fabbs, tbh...

I understand all of that and don't disagree. My quarrel with Fabbs is really on more routine things like his anger over completely defensible evidentiary rulings in the Aaron Hernandez case that are constitutionally required despite being harmful to the prosecution.

I'm not here to beat the drum for terrorists, though I will say that the civil libertarian in me believes firmly that if we live by a rule of law and make the defense of our freedoms an essential justification for fighting terrorists (along, obviously, with security in general), it seems to me that you can't exalt our freedoms and then deny them in a reactionary fashion when it better suits your needs. If we believe in due process, then we believe in due process and we don't just afford it to those we like -- it's an all or nothing thing to me and, personally, I think the "all" part of that decision is the preferable course.

If we cede our freedoms in the guise of trying to feel more secure, I think the terrorists -- who, as President Bush famously said on September 11, 2001, "hate our freedom" -- have earned a major victory against us. Their barbarism will have compelled us to give up fundamental principles that define what freedom actually means.

[Winehole23]

:tu

[Fabbs]

So, he was afforded due process, and he (apparently, quite likely) told them about this very plan.

What's the problem again?
Quite likely told them about a terrorist plan?

You must be soo proud:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/20/salah-abdeslam-french-judges-question-paris-attacks-suspect
Paris attacks suspect Salah Abdeslam refuses to speak in French court

[FromWayDowntown]

Quite likely told them about a terrorist plan?

You must be soo proud:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/20/salah-abdeslam-french-judges-question-paris-attacks-suspect
Paris attacks suspect Salah Abdeslam refuses to speak in French court


It's his right to not speak.

[Fabbs]

It's his right to not speak.
Yes it is.
Was it the bombing victims "right" to continue to live?
If Abdeslam had info that could prevent future bombing victims lives (highly likely), is it societies "right" to purge that info out of he and his co bitch, lawyer Sven Mary?

I know here it comes. The "rights" of a below sleaseball individual are above the rights of countless others to live.

[I. Hustle]

Avante just pm'ed me. He said that terrorists are bad and all that but what's this about Pedos getting off? He also wants to know how to spell Sven Mary.