There is no debate that Duncan > Kobe (MUST READ!!!)

[Ghazi]

Too lazy to bring up the stats

5 and 5

Kobe was the clear 2nd option on the first 3 championships. Shaq was absolutely the man. Kobe had his moments, but was the Beta. Shaq was the one putting up monster 30/15 type numbers in the Finals.

As for 2009 and 2010, Kobe got a gift from Jerry West. In hindsight, yes... Marc Gasol did turn into a vital piece for the Grizzlies and both parties were happy. But at the time, the Lakers virtually gave up no talent whatsoever for a top 15 player and one of the best bigs in the game.

This allowed them to have the unstoppable length and size of the front court of Odom/Bynum/Gasol which was the main reason for that teams dominant run from 2008-2011.

Kobe was also the beneficiary of the Garnett injury paving the way for them to face Dwight bitchmade Howard and Hedo Turkoglu in the 2009 Finals.

In 2010, the length of the front court and the addition of Ron Artest, who when locked in mentally was indeed one of the elite defenders of the game, allowed them to eeek out a victory against a 50-32 Celtics team. This was a very weak period in the NBA anyway... and Kobe's Finals numbers were anything but lofty. Kobe's narcissistic personality is probably why he was unable to age gracefully and will retire in a humiliated fashion. His legacy has been propped up and overhyped by the media.

The Celtics from 2008-2012 were very strong, although after 2008, they showed a tendency to choke under pressure (see Game 6/7 2012 ECF, Game 7 2010 NBA Finals, Game 6/7 2009 ECSF)

Enter Duncan.

The 1998-1999 Spurs was only Duncan's 2nd year, and he flat out dominated the league and was already one of the best players in the game.
It is true he was surrounded with a great coach and David Robinson/Bruce Bowen
In 2003 he carried Parker/Ginobili who were not established at the time and an aging D Rob (but he did have Bowen) to the championship. Although the Nets were not too strong, he had a dominant Finals and nearly had a quadruple double.
In 2004 it was a pretty fluky Horry shot that may have prevented this team from repeating a championship.
And yet they showed resilience in 2005 and beat a very tough and gritty Pistons team. Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace were in their primes, and that was a suffocating defense.
In 2006 if not for the Manu foul and Diop playing out of his mind, I believe the Spurs would've won the championship again.
And yet they resiliently came back in 2007. First off, they were better than the Suns and the suspensions had nothing to do with any of that. The Jazz/Cavs were weak opponents, but they cannot help that their competition was weak.
From 2008-2010 it looked as if the Spurs were declining and aging, but they revamped and reloaded and Duncan's graceful aging allowed for him to still be a vital cog in the team. Unlike Kobe who has been absolutely worthless since 2011.
a
Yet one more fluke was the 2013 Finals
And yet just like the 2004 "fluke" and 2006 "fluke", the Spurs answered the fluke by winning yet another championship.
This year Duncan may only be the 4th best player on the team, but the fact that he's still a contributor to a historically great team while creeping up on 40 is mind boggling.
Absolutely you should factor the twilight years of a player in their legacy status... Kobe is having one of the worst seasons of all time, Duncan is still contributing to a championship caliber team.

As for the metrics and PER and analytics, they also favor Duncan.
Kobe has ruined a generation of basketball players who idealize his inefficient hero ball style. If more players followed Duncan's style, basketball would be a more beautiful game at the lower levels.

[DeadlyDynasty]

In 2004 it was a pretty fluky Horry shot that may have prevented this team from repeating a championship.
...and you were doing so well

[Ghazi]

Also, his contract is now weighing down the team as he puts up 17 points on 17 shots on 36% from the field and takes 7 3 -PT attempts a game on 28%

according to WAGES OF WINS, in order to be a successful NBA franchise, you have to get bang for your buck.

The Lakers are paying $25 million to a player thats playing at below MLE level... this is the hallmark of inefficient spending which leads to a 15 win season.

[Ghazi]

...and you were doing so well

That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in sports, up there with the Tyree catch and "6" and the rigged 2006 Finals.

But, they probably didn't deserve to win that year as it took a fluky Duncan shot before the Horry shot in order for it to get to that point.

2004 Lakers show that no team with a pedophile on the squad will ever win a championship. :lol Karl

[DeadlyDynasty]

That was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in sports, up there with the Tyree catch and "6" and the rigged 2006 Finals.

But, they probably didn't deserve to win that year as it took a fluky Duncan shot before the Horry shot in order for it to get to that point.

2004 Lakers show that no team with a pedophile on the squad will ever win a championship. :lol Karl

Strike 2

[Ghazi]

Not trying to troll Lakers fans... but the Lakers have such a rich history that Kobe probably isn't even a top 3 Laker of all time.

He's the best guard since MJ, but Curry is on a trajectory to have a better career and legacy IMO.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Not trying to troll Lakers fans... but the Lakers have such a rich history that Kobe probably isn't even a top 3 Laker of all time.

He's the best guard since MJ, but Curry is on a trajectory to have a better career and legacy IMO.
I don't disagree with (all) that...just fucking with you since you're mixing up the details

[Ghazi]

I only started this thread to see how long it would take before someone makes a sand ****** joke, I actually don't care about Kobe or Duncan.

Just happy for my boy Dirk in 2011 :) ....

[K...]

Kobe was actually the third most important Laker after Shaq and Stern

[Spurtacular]

Yea, the KG injury gave Kobe 2 more rings than he would have gotten.

[Thread]

That rent free thingy.

[HemisfairArena]

That rent free thingy.

,,,on a Spurs forum,,,rent free thingy,,,,

[Ghazi]

The 2009 Lakers were a very strong team though, I'll give them that... but their main attribute was the dominant length of the entire team and especially the front court.

With Bryant, Ariza, Odom, Bynum, Gasol... the league was just not equipped for their length and size that year. They did go 65-17 with a +7.8 margin of victory

however... that Celtics team was like 41-9 when KG got hurt... it would've been an epic Finals rematch.

[Arcadian]

Fun fact: Robert Horry was a Spur in 2004.

[baseline bum]

...and you were doing so well

It's funny because with a minute left in Game 5 Horry missed a fucking wide open three from the same spot he buried Webber. It was like two or three feet right, it went right off the backboard, and would have given the Spurs a four point lead and probably buried the Lakers just like the one he missed in Game 5 the previous year would have probably knocked the Spurs out.

[Thread]

,,,on a Spurs forum,,,rent free thingy,,,,

NBA Forum

[Thread]

The 2009 Lakers were a very strong team though, I'll give them that... but their main attribute was the dominant length of the entire team and especially the front court.

With Bryant, Ariza, Odom, Bynum, Gasol... the league was just not equipped for their length and size that year. They did go 65-17 with a +7.8 margin of victory

however... that Celtics team was like 41-9 when KG got hurt... it would've been an epic Finals rematch.

Only pussies & assholes play the injury card.

[wingster]

NBA Forum
what's the name of the site again?

[z0sa]

Fun fact: Robert Horry was a Spur in 2004.


It's funny because with a minute left in Game 5 Horry missed a fucking wide open three from the same spot he buried Webber. It was like two or three feet right, it went right off the backboard, and would have given the Spurs a four point lead and probably buried the Lakers just like the one he missed in Game 5 the previous year would have probably knocked the Spurs out.

Such cruel irony. Am i the only one who still finds 04 more painful than 13? :lol

[spurraider21]

That rent free thingy.
That they were selling your shit thingy.

[baseline bum]

Only pussies & assholes play the injury card.

They were selling your shit

[Ball Buster]

Personally, I think both players are over-rated. I've seen Kobe miss too many shots, and I've seen Timmy disappear in too many playoff games to canonize either one of them

[Mark Celibate]

15 win is really an embarrassing mark to the Lakers as a franchise they've never been so scrubby since their relocation to Los Angeles imho, but at least Kobe is gonna make another record (one he doesn't really want though) before retiring.

[100%duncan]

Duncan was always > Kobe.

That '11 run doe, godly tbh. But it sucks to live in the past all the time imho.

[Thread]

what's the name of the site again?

They were selling your shit.

[DMC]

NBA Forum
Do you want to reopen this cold case? You know, the one that always ends up with you leaving?

[wingster]

They were selling your shit.
If you say so you broken record.

[Thread]

Do you want to reopen this cold case? You know, the one that always ends up with you leaving?

It's all up to you.

[DMC]

It's all up to you.
No, you're the one who dragged it back out. You can't come to Spurstalk.com to attack the Spurs and claim shelter behind the "NBA Forum" thinggy as if you're here to discuss the NBA. You're not.

[Relevancy]

Duncan might have been more consistent than Bryant, but I think what made Kobe so great was the killer instict in him, he had a special aura around him when the game was on the line, sure he failed a lot of times but if you got to witness the times where he did succeed, it was quite a ride and you literally got chills everytime he made some of those shots.

[ambchang]

Duncan might have been more consistent than Bryant, but I think what made Kobe so great was the killer instict in him, he had a special aura around him when the game was on the line, sure he failed a lot of times but if you got to witness the times where he did succeed, it was quite a ride and you literally got chills everytime he made some of those shots.

So it's down to "intangibles".

You know what? Duncan rally doesn't have that killer instinct, he didn't really want to win that badly, he just happened to win five championships for a small market nba team that never won any in the past. Pure coincidence you know. It just so happens he changed his game multiple times and it just so happened the Spurs were able to change with the styles of nba basketball.

Btw, name me a Kobe game winner in the WCF or finals. Ever.

In fact, tell me how many times Kobe shot over 45% in a finals series in his 7 tries.

[Relevancy]

So it's down to "intangibles".

You know what? Duncan rally doesn't have that killer instinct, he didn't really want to win that badly, he just happened to win five championships for a small market nba team that never won any in the past. Pure coincidence you know. It just so happens he changed his game multiple times and it just so happened the Spurs were able to change with the styles of nba basketball.

Btw, name me a Kobe game winner in the WCF or finals. Ever.

In fact, tell me how many times Kobe shot over 45% in a finals series in his 7 tries.in the end you prefer Duncan and I prefer Kobe, lets just leave it at that. I also don't have a problem with people thinking Duncan was better or had a better career than Kobe, because it could be argued.

Duncan obviously had a killer instinct in him but to me Kobes will to win much greater, dude basically only lived to play basketball. Now you can disagree I don't have a problem with that:bobo

[Silver&Black]

It's all up to you.

Spurstalk

If I had 33,000+ posts on a rival teams forum..............I would kill myself. Just food for thought.

[DeadlyDynasty]

So it's down to "intangibles".

You know what? Duncan rally doesn't have that killer instinct, he didn't really want to win that badly, he just happened to win five championships for a small market nba team that never won any in the past. Pure coincidence you know. It just so happens he changed his game multiple times and it just so happened the Spurs were able to change with the styles of nba basketball.

Btw, name me a Kobe game winner in the WCF or finals. Ever.

In fact, tell me how many times Kobe shot over 45% in a finals series in his 7 tries.
Game 4 2000 NBA Finals...Shaq was fouled out and Kobe owned the overtime period, including the final points which gave LA a 120-118 win and effectively ended the series.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Spurstalk

If I had 33,000+ posts on a rival teams forum..............I would kill myself. Just food for thought.
Yes because ass-patting and circle-jerking each other on your team's board is such a better use of time:lol

Rival fans have made this site what it is, not the banality upstairs.

[Silver&Black]

Yes because ass-patting and circle-jerking each other on your team's board is such a better use of time:lol

Rival fans have made this site what it is, not the banality upstairs.

Big Difference between you and Cub.

Do you spend 99% of your time on here talking about TMZ shit? Amy this. Duncan is a fag. Neal raped. etc.?

[Thread]

Spurstalk

If I had 33,000+ posts on a rival teams forum..............I would kill myself. Just food for thought.

They were selling your shit.

[Thread]

Rival fans have made this site what it is, not the banality upstairs.

Deads

[DeadlyDynasty]

Big Difference between you and Cub.

Do you spend 99% of your time on here talking about TMZ shit? Amy this. Duncan is a fag. Neal raped. etc.?
Maybe if you guys just accepted it he would move on from the matter...? Neither of those things are in doubt, don't know why yous are so stubborn about it

[Silver&Black]

Horseshit. It's no better than if a Spurs fan went to a Lakers forum and talked about Kobe being a Rapist 24/7.

[ambchang]

in the end you prefer Duncan and I prefer Kobe, lets just leave it at that. I also don't have a problem with people thinking Duncan was better or had a better career than Kobe, because it could be argued.

Duncan obviously had a killer instinct in him but to me Kobes will to win much greater, dude basically only lived to play basketball. Now you can disagree I don't have a problem with that:bobo

Not just that I disagree with the premise my problem with Kobe fans is that when there are no arguments left, they pull the unprovable arguments like will to win or killer instinct.

If he had that will to win, why did he ran off shaq? Why did he ran off Phil? Why did he tie up the lakers by signing a ridiculous contract that essentially handicapped his team? He isn't about winning at all, he is about making as much money as possible, but he masked it behind the warrior facade. Winning was just a vehicle for him to make more money.

[ambchang]

Game 4 2000 NBA Finals...Shaq was fouled out and Kobe owned the overtime period, including the final points which gave LA a 120-118 win and effectively ended the series.

The lakers were already up 118-117 when he made that tip in. It wasn't s game winner. Try again

[Splits]

Duncan might have been more consistent than Bryant, but I think what made Kobe so great was the killer instict in him, he had a special aura around him when the game was on the line, sure he failed a lot of times but if you got to witness the times where he did succeed, it was quite a ride and you literally got chills everytime he made some of those shots.

:dizzy

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/000/306/857/Screenshot2012-01-16at10.08.23PM_crop_exact.png?w=650&h=492&q=85
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/playlifevr4/380291_10150998387509050_1996452723_n.jpg~original

[DeadlyDynasty]

The lakers were already up 118-117
...Because of the 6 previous points he scored in that overtime...are you really trying to put qualifiers on this?:lmao

Your penis envy of Kobe and the Lakers is so visceral--you have more Laker-related posts than Spurs-related posts, which is pretty fucking odd for a homer on his own board.

It all comes down to entertainment/influence. They both won 5 titles, but Tim Duncan can't help that he plays an unaesthetically pleasing brand of basketball coupled with the personality of a rock. Great player, great fundamentals, but 15-foot bank shots aren't going to give you a captive audience. If you can't be at peace with this right now you'll forever have an inferiority complex when it comes to Kobe and the Lakers. And don't give me this small-market shit either...San Antonio has more people than Cleveland, OKC, Orlando (Shaq was a mega-star there). Great player, boring as fuck. Move on.

[DMC]

Big Difference between you and Cub.

Do you spend 99% of your time on here talking about TMZ shit? Amy this. Duncan is a fag. Neal raped. etc.?
Not under his main account tbh lol

[baseline bum]

dude basically only lived to play basketball


That's also Duncan, he's constantly in the gym.

[ambchang]

...Because of the 6 previous points he scored in that overtime...are you really trying to put qualifiers on this?:lmao

It has always been a qualifier, and that is game winners. That wasn't a game winner. It's like you asking me when's the last time Duncan had a quadruple double and I give you a triple double. it wasn't what was asked.


Your penis envy of Kobe and the Lakers is so visceral--you have more Laker-related posts than Spurs-related posts, which is pretty fucking odd for a homer on his own board.

You find a Spurs fan posting on a Spurs board saying Duncan > Kobe odd? I found a Laker fan posting more on a Spurs board odd.


It all comes down to entertainment/influence. They both won 5 titles, but Tim Duncan can't help that he plays an unaesthetically pleasing brand of basketball coupled with the personality of a rock. Great player, great fundamentals, but 15-foot bank shots aren't going to give you a captive audience. If you can't be at peace with this right now you'll forever have an inferiority complex when it comes to Kobe and the Lakers. And don't give me this small-market shit either...San Antonio has more people than Cleveland, OKC, Orlando (Shaq was a mega-star there). Great player, boring as fuck. Move on.

:lol it all comes down to entertainment, which proves my point of Laker fans, particularly Kobestans, coming up to arbitrary and totally irrelevant qualifiers when they can't come up with any reasonable arguments to defend Kobe. I mean, "will to win" and "spirit" was abstract enough, but "entertainment/influence"? I mean, who's the next Kobe? Whereas right now, teams are looking to play like the Spurs to win championhsips, talk about influence.

Aesthetically pleasing :lol, this is just getting retarded.

[Thread]

That's also Duncan, he's constantly in the gym.

...bent over the water cooler.

[baseline bum]

...bent over the water cooler.

Duncan 5
Tired old shit bag Bryant 5

[Molotov]

:lol aesthetically pleasing

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Strike 2
Strike 3 is saying the Spurs had Bruce Bowen in 1999. IIRC, Bowen was on the Heat team that got 8'd by the Ewing-less Knicks that year

[HemisfairArena]

This is a moot point,,,the only people that put kobrick over Duncan are laker fans,,,,the other 95% of the NBA world pick Duncan,,,,

[DMC]

Ghazi doesn't give a fuck about the Spurs or who was playing. He just wanted to be called a "mein egger" which means "my farmer".

[Ghazi]

The only thing I know about the NBA is that the Dallas Mavericks are the 2011 Champions and Dirk Nowitzki is the 2011 Finals MVP.

:lol Kobe
:lol 122-86
:lol 4-0

[Thread]

The only thing I know about the NBA is that the Dallas Mavericks are the 2011 Champions and Dirk Nowitzki is the 2011 Finals MVP.

:lol Kobe
:lol 122-86
:lol 4-0

Didn't even defend it. Laid there like a slug.

[baseline bum]

Didn't even defend it. Laid there like a slug.

Like you never defend them selling your shit.

They were selling your shit.

[mudyez]

So, OP never got the Horry thing, right?

Can we just add this to the Boozer and Paul George legends?

[Benoit]

The opinions of peers is the only thing that matters, not the opinions of basketball nerds and people who never played the game

Nobody will remember Duncan other than basketball nerds and I rarely hear any of his peers discuss him

Kobes peers talk about him non-stop and most of them say he is the best player of their generation

Dirk Nowitzki, Wade, Melo and a bunch of others have said it. Shit Tony Parker and Pop called him the MJ of their generation LMAO :rollin what more do you want??