ESPN article: Should Warriors or Spurs be No. 1 in NBA power rankings?

[pad300]

Kevin Pelton

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/15077051/san-antonio-spurs-playoff-favorites-golden-state-warriors-nba

and from Reddit:

http://i.imgur.com/vmLAZZI.jpg

[Proxy]

don't see how you could disagree with KP

[tmtcsc]

Interesting read. Thankfully, the two teams should have a chance to decide who's best in the WCF.

[SpursFan86]

If someone thinks the Spurs can/will beat GS in a series, that's fine. There's certainly an argument there...and the homer in me really wants to think SA will pull it off (although I sure as hell won't be betting on it).

But I really don't think there's much debate to be had regarding who's been more impressive in the regular season. The Warriors have played like the better team this year. Whether they can keep that up in the playoffs or whether the Spurs can step it up a notch in the playoffs is a different story.

[Blake]

Of course the Warriors should be#1. NBA beat reporters are bored I guess.

[SpursFan86]

Of course the Warriors should be#1. NBA beat reporters are bored I guess.

Well you have a lot of people bringing up the Spurs' point differential and using that to say SA has been the best team this year...but like this article points out, there's more to it than that. Point differential might be a solid indicator of team strength but in this case it doesn't paint the whole picture.

[Blake]

Well you have a lot of people bringing up the Spurs' point differential and using that to say SA has been the best team this year...but like this article points out, there's more to it than that. Point differential might be a solid indicator of team strength but in this case it doesn't paint the whole picture.

W/L. That's it and that's all here, imo

[Spurtacular]

ESPN has f'd up the power rankings. They try to make it about cold numbers instead of a cumulative analysis.

[FromWayDowntown]

You don't usually think of teams that have (likely) 65-68 wins as being prohibitive underdogs, but that's what the Spurs will be if they make it to the Warriors.

As good as the Spurs have been in 2015-16, I think it's reasonable to believe that if the Spurs somehow managed to beat the Warriors in a playoff series, it would be an historically significant upset.

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs should have topped the list after they beat the Dubs, and that should have been the only week that GS wasn't number one.

[will_spurs]

ESPN has f'd up the power rankings. They try to make it about cold numbers instead of a cumulative analysis.

Actually they provide both. Humans (like Stein) have GSW at #1, computers have SA at #1.

Stein rankings week by week: http://espn.go.com/nba/team/rankings/_/name/sa

[Uriel]

Damn, this article is depressing. :depressed

[will_spurs]

Damn, this article is depressing. :depressed

TL;DR = the Warriors are better than the Spurs against touger opponents and when closing out games.

Nothing we didn't already know.

[spursistan]

TL;DR = the Warriors are better than the Spurs against touger opponents and when closing out games.

Nothing we didn't already know.
and it is hard to argue against that since that's basically the playoff plate (hard opponent + close games)..the Spurs were probably as much of an underdog against Heat in 2013 as they are now, and we know how close we came to the upset...I genuinely trust Pop in these instances more so when he is in a toss-up or has the favourite tag :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

You don't usually think of teams that have (likely) 65-68 wins as being prohibitive underdogs, but that's what the Spurs will be if they make it to the Warriors.

-'09 Cavs would have been prohibitive underdogs against the Lakers after winning 66 games (the Lakers owned them in the regular season)

-'96 Sonics won 64 & were a HUGE underdogs against the 72 win Bulls
-'97 Jazz won 64 & were prohibitive underdogs against 69 win Bulls
-'93 Suns won 62 & were prohibitive underdogs against the 57 win Bulls

-'00 Lakers almost blew a 3-1 lead in the WCF after winning 67 games
-'13 Heat were a defensive rebound away from losing in the Finals after winning 66 games
-'07 Mavs lost to a team that had their number after winning 67 games
-'06 Pistons lost to the Heat in the ECF after winning 64 games

-You had the 63 win Spurs losing a Gm 7 at home to the 60 win Mavs, which is the closest thing to the Spurs/Worriers (Kings/Lakers doesn't qualify b/c the Kings were a bunch of chokers & the Lakers were the defending champs)

Last year's Worriers would have been underdogs against a healthy Cavs team & actually were after Gm 2.:lol

[Kawhitstorm]

and it is hard to argue against that since that's basically the playoff plate (hard opponent + close games)..the Spurs were probably as much of an underdog against Heat in 2013 as they are now, and we know how close we came to the upset...I genuinely trust Pop in these instances more so when he is in a toss-up or has the favourite tag :lol

The last time the Spurs were underdogs against a Western conference team when they were LEGIT contenders was 2007 against the Suns & Horry hip checked the doubters to the curb.:lol (That was also basically the championship series since a LeBron led squad was dead on arrival in the Finals)

2008: Spurs weren't LEGIT contenders after the brutal Hornets series
2014: Spurs were favorites b/c of homecourt & Ibaka's fake injury

If the Worriers want to compare themselves to the Bulls then you had the '92 Bulls almost going down 3-2 to the Knicks during their title defense after their first title. That was their last season at Chicago Stadium & this will be the Worriers last season playing at the Oracle before moving to SF. ('99 Spurs shutdown the LA Forum" by sweeping the Lakers in the WCF so history is on our side:toast)

[TrainOfThought5]

If someone thinks the Spurs can/will beat GS in a series, that's fine. There's certainly an argument there...and the homer in me really wants to think SA will pull it off (although I sure as hell won't be betting on it).

But I really don't think there's much debate to be had regarding who's been more impressive in the regular season. The Warriors have played like the better team this year. Whether they can keep that up in the playoffs or whether the Spurs can step it up a notch in the playoffs is a different story.

The warriors have played like shit this year... they just have the Chef gawd bailing them out with 35 foot threes in the fourth quarters lol.

[Proxy]

Damn, this article is depressing. :depressed

Aren't these stats are to be expected when you compare the champs to a team that's finding it's identity with the new pieces and all? Seems to be more of a reason to be optimistic about the upset imo

[Obstructed_View]

Aren't these stats are to be expected when you compare the champs to a team that's finding it's identity with the new pieces and all? Seems to be more of a reason to be optimistic about the upset imo

I tend to agree with this. The Spurs had to learn to play with new players and the Warriors started 29-1. The Spurs kept pace with them up until Saturday.

[Keepin' it real]

TL;DR = the Warriors are better than the Spurs against touger opponents and when closing out games.

Nothing we didn't already know.

No matter what the article, there's always a spurs talker complaining that it's "nothing we don't already know." :rolleyes

[Uriel]

TL;DR = the Warriors are better than the Spurs against touger opponents and when closing out games.

Nothing we didn't already know.
It's not just that. The point differential argument was probably the most convincing argument any Spurs fan could use when arguing against the Warriors.

This article basically takes that argument and blows it to smithereens.

[Robz4000]

You don't usually think of teams that have (likely) 65-68 wins as being prohibitive underdogs, but that's what the Spurs will be if they make it to the Warriors.

As good as the Spurs have been in 2015-16, I think it's reasonable to believe that if the Spurs somehow managed to beat the Warriors in a playoff series, it would be an historically significant upset.

An upset? Of course. Historically significant? Eh...

[Spurtacular]

Actually they provide both. Humans (like Stein) have GSW at #1, computers have SA at #1.

Stein rankings week by week: http://espn.go.com/nba/team/rankings/_/name/sa

Yea, but it used to just be a fun not overthought sort of activity. Now, ESPN acts like it's a science.

[Spurtacular]

-'97 Jazz won 64 & were prohibitive underdogs against 69 win Bulls


Maybe, with factoring in the inevitable cheating; but that Jazz team was better and from the better conference.

[Spurtacular]

-'93 Suns won 62 & were prohibitive underdogs against the 57 win Bulls

Suns were the favorites. They blew it.

[Spurtacular]

-'00 Lakers almost blew a 3-1 lead in the WCF after winning 67 games


Blazers blew it; they were the better team. Big time choke.

[baseline bum]

Golden State is still the best team I have ever seen, so yeah, they should be #1.

[DAF86]

Warriors are the best team 'cause they have the best record in top of being the reigning NBA champs. Untill somebody knocks them off they are number one.

But some of the points he makes in the article aren't relevant at all. Mainly the record against top teams (see Spurs 2014 run), and the "clutch" stats (it's been proven over time that close game records eventually even out).

[Chillen]

Golden State is still the best team I have ever seen, so yeah, they should be #1.

I don't think they are the best team I have ever seen, Curry is hitting some unbelievable shots this season, they are playing well. Some of the wins have been really close and it's because they bailed themselves out with 3's. They will more than likely beat the Bulls 72-10 record, but imo they are not the best team I have ever seen. It's the 72-10 1996 Bulls imo, not because I am a homer but because they just were that dominant. The Warriors strike me as a team that is on a roll hitting a bunch of crazy 3's to seal the deal. So even if they best the Bulls 72-10 mark, that is still the best team I have ever seen imo, not the 2016 Warriors.

The Warriors also can be beat in the playoffs, all it will take is some of those 3's not falling, Spurs have a chance to dethrone them.

[Horse]

It won't be easy but having that belif is the biggest part we saw them rattled in SA. Even in the finals last season no way it should've been as close as it was. You fight back don't play scared and the pussy in the warriors will come out.

[Horse]

Blazers blew it; they were the better team. Big time choke.

I will never belive this game wasn't rigged.

[Spurtacular]

I will never belive this game wasn't rigged.

NBA cheated hardcore for the Lakers in that era. I don't remember how bad the cheating was for that particular game.

[mudyez]

-'09 Cavs would have been prohibitive underdogs against the Lakers after winning 66 games (the Lakers owned them in the regular season)

-'96 Sonics won 64 & were a HUGE underdogs against the 72 win Bulls
-'97 Jazz won 64 & were prohibitive underdogs against 69 win Bulls
-'93 Suns won 62 & were prohibitive underdogs against the 57 win Bulls

-'00 Lakers almost blew a 3-1 lead in the WCF after winning 67 games
-'13 Heat were a defensive rebound away from losing in the Finals after winning 66 games
-'07 Mavs lost to a team that had their number after winning 67 games
-'13 Pistons lost to the Heat in the ECF after winning 64 games

-You had the 63 win Spurs losing a Gm 7 at home to the 60 win Mavs, which is the closest thing to the Spurs/Worriers (Kings/Lakers doesn't qualify b/c the Kings were a bunch of chokers & the Lakers were the defending champs)

Last year's Worriers would have been underdogs against a healthy Cavs team & actually were after Gm 2.:lol

???

[baseline bum]

I don't think they are the best team I have ever seen, Curry is hitting some unbelievable shots this season, they are playing well. Some of the wins have been really close and it's because they bailed themselves out with 3's. They will more than likely beat the Bulls 72-10 record, but imo they are not the best team I have ever seen. It's the 72-10 1996 Bulls imo, not because I am a homer but because they just were that dominant. The Warriors strike me as a team that is on a roll hitting a bunch of crazy 3's to seal the deal. So even if they best the Bulls 72-10 mark, that is still the best team I have ever seen imo, not the 2016 Warriors.

The Warriors also can be beat in the playoffs, all it will take is some of those 3's not falling, Spurs have a chance to dethrone them.

I don't even think 96 was the best Bulls team. I'll take 92 or even 91 over them for Jordan's physical prime as well as having Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright in the frontcourt.

[SPURt]

The Warriors control their own fate. If they push past the 72 win Bulls team and win the chip they will be widely considered the best team ever. If they achieve the regular season record and lose in the playoffs they will be remembered a lot like the 2007 Patriots. The only thing that matters for the Spurs is that they are going to be the road team in a series against Golden State.

I want the media to give the Spurs no chance and favor the Warriors. The Warriors are mentally weaker than the Spurs and read sports coverage too much. The more writers try and make them an underdog the more the Warriors are going to use it as bulletin board material. It'll be interesting to see Golden State behind 3-2 in a series. Golden State hasn't faced adversity yet, which is the most amazing part of their run.

[Kawhitstorm]

But some of the points he makes in the article aren't relevant at all. Mainly the record against top teams (see Spurs 2014 run), and the "clutch" stats (it's been proven over time that close game records eventually even out).

Little do those mental midgets at BSPN know that the '07 Mavs had an excellent record against top teams (50+ win teams; lost 3 to the "We Believe" Worriers) & probably the GOAT "clutch" stat during the regular season.:lol

The Worriers haven't even been the best team in the league since the ASG break (Spurs have been better & Hornets have been just as good) & their point differential has been pedestrian against top teams.

Worriers blew out the Spurs w/o Timmay & an overrated Cavs squad (otherwise lost to the Spurs & barely beat the Cavs on Christmas) but the Cripples/OKC had leads in 4th quarter both at home & on the road. They also couldn't blowout the Cripples TWICE w/o Blake. The only other elite team in the Leastern conference is the Raptors who lost both games during crunch time. The Heat also lost one game on a broken play & were competitive at the Oracle until midway through the 4th at the Oracle.

Basically, the Worriers padded their point differential against elite teams in the two fluky games against the Spurs/Cavs otherwise they having pulling games out of their ass like the '07 Mavs.:lol

The Worriers also had a couple of blowout wins against the Grizz, I'm assuming BSPN is chalking that up as an "elite" win.:lmao

The Worriers/Cripples rivalry reminds me of the Knicks/Bulls; the Cripples will lose/choke but they are going to make the Worriers work for it.

-Rd 2 previews for the Worriers/Cripples:

4wLW2UwkcG4

The Worriers/Spurs match-up also reminds me of the Spurs/Suns 2007 series when the Suns, led by their 2 time MVP point-god, were favored to win despite the Spurs having the best record in the league after the ASG break:

-WCF preview for Worriers/Spurs:

j2T_anLcvfY

[will_spurs]

No matter what the article, there's always a spurs talker complaining that it's "nothing we don't already know." :rolleyes


a) I'm not complaining
b) There are countless threads addressing both these issues

There's no pride in knowing more about what's right and wrong with the team we support than a random ESPN writer...

[Kawhitstorm]

???

'06 Pistons

[Baseline21]

All I got to say is for the Spurs to win the chip Kawhi and LMA have to play like superstars, everyone else on this team is a role player. Like Coach Bill belichick always says just do your job. Everyone on this team not named Kawhi and LMA just need to do their job. That means don't try to be the hero (yes I'm talking to u Parker) and don't over do it. But they all say role players are just good at home and bad on the road, but for our role players it's different then any other role players in NBA history. Our role players were finals MVP,reg MVP and 6th man. So our role players are battle tested and been through the ringer. Just feed Kawhi and LMA the ball and do your role.

[phxspurfan]

Golden State is still the best team I have ever seen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_Chicago_Bulls_season

[baseline bum]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995%E2%80%9396_Chicago_Bulls_season

86 Celtics are probably the second best team I have seen. I'd take the 92 Bulls as the third best.

[Kidd K]

Warriors should be #1 because Spurs have dropped some games recently.

Being #2 doesn't mean you can't beat #1. Just means #1 is better at this moment which is the case. Spurs can obv beat the Warriors.

[Hoops Czar]

Basically, the Worriers padded their point differential against elite teams in the two fluky games against the Spurs/Cavs otherwise they having pulling games out of their ass like the '07 Mavs.:lol

The Worriers also had a couple of blowout wins against the Grizz, I'm assuming BSPN is chalking that up as an "elite" win.:lmao


Why don't you start reeling off the Spurs Elite wins...

[Kidd K]

The article title is pretty deceptive and irritating though. Judging by the title you might expect an argument for why the Spurs should get some props too so hey it might be worth reading, a different take for once. . .but it's just another Warriors cock sucking article like everything else on there.

[Kawhitstorm]

Why don't you start reeling off the Spurs Elite wins...

We could start from the Wardell 1-12 game.:wakeup

[TD 21]

The article title is pretty deceptive and irritating though. Judging by the title you might expect an argument for why the Spurs should get some props too so hey it might be worth reading, a different take for once. . .but it's just another Warriors cock sucking article like everything else on there.

Followed by the usual Warriors cock sucking from the closet Warriors fans on this board.


I love how the Spurs pedigree never matters, how the excuses/reasons that every other team that's integrating a significant player(s) gets, don't matter (most of the losses to elite teams were before Aldridge was playing at this level) and how all of a sudden, point differential is secondary to record against elite teams and in depth garbage time analysis.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Dubs are still better until we beat them a second time or go up on them in the WCF.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Followed by the usual Warriors cock sucking from the closet Warriors fans on this board.


I love how the Spurs pedigree never matters, how the excuses/reasons that every other team that's integrating a significant player(s) gets, don't matter (most of the losses to elite teams were before Aldridge was playing at this level) and how all of a sudden, point differential is secondary to record against elite teams and in depth garbage time analysis.
You mean Laker fans that are compensating for having a 15 win "primary" team?

[look_at_g_shred]

Anyone watching wiz/dubs?

[TampaDude]

Anyone watching wiz/dubs?

Yeah...the Wiz are ahead right now, but it's all an illusion. Dubs win that shit by double digits, book it.

[SpurPadre]

It would be just our luck the Dubs stumble a bit these last few games, with us beating them the last two matchups, all to end up 1 game behind and it will be due to the Hornet chokejob and the Thunder tank job.

[SpurPadre]

Yeah...the Wiz are ahead right now, but it's all an illusion. Dubs win that shit by double digits, book it.

Anything is possible and the Wizards are playing for their playoff lives.

[look_at_g_shred]

It would be just our luck the Dubs stumble a bit these last few games, with us beating them the last two matchups, all to end up 1 game behind and it will be due to the Hornet chokejob and the Thunder tank job.
As long as they don't get the record tho

[TampaDude]

It would be just our luck the Dubs stumble a bit these last few games, with us beating them the last two matchups, all to end up 1 game behind and it will be due to the Hornet chokejob and the Thunder tank job.

Dude...GS is NOT losing 5 out of their last 9 games. FUHGEDDABOUTIT...

[TampaDude]

Anything is possible and the Wizards are playing for their playoff lives.

Oh, I would be ecstatic if the Dubs lost tonight and left the Spurs as the only team undefeated at home this season, but that's exactly why it's not going to happen. 100% GUARANTEED the Dubs win tonight.

[TampaDude]

...aaaaand just like that, the Dubs take the lead on, yes, you guessed it...a Curry 3 bomb.

GAME OVER. DUBS BY 20.

[SpurPadre]

Dude...GS is NOT losing 5 out of their last 9 games. FUHGEDDABOUTIT...

They're playing the Wiz and Jazz, who are fighting for their playoff lives, the Celtics, who can still get up to the third seed in the East and have something to play for, and us twice. It's not likely and I wouldn't bet on it, but not impossible.

[Benoit]

Whats the Spurs most impressive W this season?? serious question

Im looking at their sched and I dont see a trademark W

L to OKC on the road twice
L to us on the road
L to Cleveland on the road
L to the Clippers on the road
L to the Raptors on the road

[look_at_g_shred]

Whats the Spurs most impressive W this season?? serious question

Im looking at their sched and I dont see a trademark W

L to OKC on the road twice
L to us on the road
L to Cleveland on the road
L to the Clippers on the road
L to the Raptors on the road
Probably against the Lakers at staples.

[SpurPadre]

Whats the Spurs most impressive W this season?? serious question

Im looking at their sched and I dont see a trademark W

L to OKC on the road twice
L to us on the road
L to Cleveland on the road
L to the Clippers on the road
L to the Raptors on the road

fart

[TampaDude]

Probably against the Lakers at staples.

Heh...I see what you did there... :lol

[Blake]

Golden State is still the best team I have ever seen, so yeah, they should be #1.

They're insane for sure but I dunno ifthey're the best I've seen.....I think the league is down a lot this year

That mid 80 Laker team...imo

[TampaDude]

They're insane for sure but I dunno ifthey're the best I've seen.....I think the league is down a lot this year

That mid 80 Laker team...imo

SHOWTIME!!! :hat

[Blake]

1983 76ers team was very sick. 65 wins and they crushed everyone in the playoffs, including sweeping the Lakers in the Finals....Dr J was en fuego and Moses Malone naturalized Kareem.