Kyle Anderson Full Game Highlight VS Memphis Grizzlies (13Points, 7Assists, 4 Steals)

[cariocaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjF3c9eTNJI

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/bobo.gif

[silverblackfan]

I love Anderson's development. He does carry the ball occasionally, which his general speed does not hide very well. His vision is improving and he is feeding the bigs easy shots every chance he gets.

[Spur|n|Austin]

In before the haters

[808]

Not against Mem but

http://49.media.tumblr.com/f5947e7cb2a7618d1f2ec5d4456e5633/tumblr_o4pemoyXwo1u2klrwo1_400.gif

[bic50]

:bobo

[Blake]

Love the full highlight threads. Thanks :tu

[MultiTroll]

Love the full highlight threads. Thanks :tu

[TrainOfThought5]

Kyle Magic Johnson Anderson making his teammates better.

[TrainOfThought5]

his assists to Lamarcus specifically are outstanding. they've got great chemistry.

[Chinook]

Really think this guy will be a starter in the league. I'm not sure he'll ever be able to defend legit fours, but against most teams, it'll be a no-brainer. I hope he develops and isn't shoe-horned into the sixth-man role because people think that the Spurs need a new Manu.

[SAGirl]

Nice game. Hopefully we have more like this from him next season. He's been making pretty passes in a few games already with more opportunities to make plays with the ball. IMO it's a good sign he's capable of these kind of games without the big 3 or Kawhi bc we'll need him more next season.

He really is a 6'9 PG, more Magic Johnson than Diaw in this game since he likes to pass in transition (Simms the ideal partner for him for that reason) and off the dribble, not like Diaw who passes out of the post.

[TrainOfThought5]

Nice game. Hopefully we have more like this from him next season. He's been making pretty passes in a few games already with more opportunities to make plays with the ball. IMO it's a good sign he's capable of these kind of games without the big 3 or Kawhi bc we'll need him more next season.

He really is a 6'9 PG, more Magic Johnson than Diaw in this game since he likes to pass in transition (Simms the ideal partner for him for that reason) and off the dribble, not like Diaw who passes out of the post.

I do believe many are misforecasting him as a 4. He loves the perimeter. loves creating. loves distributing, and honestly I think he may grow to be more than just "net positive" on defense.

[SAGirl]

Really think this guy will be a starter in the league. I'm not sure he'll ever be able to defend legit fours, but against most teams, it'll be a no-brainer. I hope he develops and isn't shoe-horned into the sixth-man role because people think that the Spurs need a new Manu.
The player he reminds me of somewhat in the modern game is Batum, except Batum is a better 3 pt shooter, but about the same size and both passers. Tatum doesn't rely on superior athleticism either. He's just a confident ballhandler with court vision who has legit size and length like Kyle. Considering that Kyle could start in the league eventually, like Batum too as a SG.

He might even be better passing eventually bc he's creating throwing lobs off the dribble. Remember the lobs to Boban and Danny of all ppl? I mean this guy is practically a rookie Pop has shelved on occasion. I think as he develops he will become a more confident passer, hopefully shooter too.

[cutewizard]

this guy is unique

[SAGirl]

I do believe many are misforecasting him as a 4. He loves the perimeter. loves creating. loves distributing, and honestly I think he may grow to be more than just "net positive" on defense.
Pop has apparently wanted him to learn several positions. I am guessing part of it is so that he can play him at different spots with his best players. For example, although he's ideally a wing, bc of Kawhi or Danny, he can get away with Kyle as a 4. It should be interesting to see him next season,which way he goes.

[cutewizard]

the point forward of the Spurs

[cutewizard]

Nice game. Hopefully we have more like this from him next season. He's been making pretty passes in a few games already with more opportunities to make plays with the ball. IMO it's a good sign he's capable of these kind of games without the big 3 or Kawhi bc we'll need him more next season.

He really is a 6'9 PG, more Magic Johnson than Diaw in this game since he likes to pass in transition (Simms the ideal partner for him for that reason) and off the dribble, not like Diaw who passes out of the post.


_-------------------------------------------------------------

completely agree! right on the money

Kyleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee rules!

[ceperez]

The player he reminds me of somewhat in the modern game is Batum, except Batum is a better 3 pt shooter, but about the same size and both passers. Tatum doesn't rely on superior athleticism either. He's just a confident ballhandler with court vision who has legit size and length like Kyle. Considering that Kyle could start in the league eventually, like Batum too as a SG.

He might even be better passing eventually bc he's creating throwing lobs off the dribble. Remember the lobs to Boban and Danny of all ppl? I mean this guy is practically a rookie Pop has shelved on occasion. I think as he develops he will become a more confident passer, hopefully shooter too.

I think he's bigger than Batum but with a lot less athleticism. Batum isn't much of a passer.

Anderson is clearly pass first player. Glad to see him play point for a majority of this game.

[Obstructed_View]

Amazing what happens when he plays his actual position.

[Proxy]

I like Kyle and all... nice pass and block, but most of those "highlights" were due to Memphis being shit.

[SAGirl]

I like Kyle and all... nice pass and block, but most of those "highlights" were due to Memphis being shit.
He had a few pretty ones to Simms against Okc too.

[DJR210]

Love the full highlight threads. Thanks :tu

[ElNono]

He had a good game, tbh... I still wouldn't give him one playoff minute after the 1st round, based on his body of work throughout this season...

[Blake]

He had a good game, tbh... I still wouldn't give him one playoff minute after the 1st round, based on his body of work throughout this season...

Yeah, don't trust him in intense games yet, but I could see him getting some solid time in vs the Jazz

[dabom]

He had a good game, tbh... I still wouldn't give him one playoff minute after the 1st round, based on his body of work throughout this season...
:bobo

[Texas_Ranger]

It's not that tough to play agains a bunch of scrubs. He was also great in the summer league, but I still don't trust him for the playoffs.

[look_at_g_shred]

How are you ever going to trust KA in the post season if you don't play him :lol like it or not, he's going to get minutes April/May/June

[dabom]

He has been a shit bag vs all the good teams he's played. That's where you earn trust. Not the playoffs. :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

He has been a shit bag vs all the good teams he's played. That's where you earn trust. Not the playoffs. :lol
Of course you earn trust in the playoffs LOL that's where you usually breakout as a player.

[dabom]

Of course you earn trust in the playoffs LOL that's where you usually breakout as a player.

I don't think you understand. If he can't even play well vs good teams in the RS, what makes you think he can do it in the playoffs where it's 10X more intense?

Pop sure as fuck doesn't care about Fathead to bet a playoff game on him.

[look_at_g_shred]

I don't think you understand. If he can't even play well vs good teams in the RS, what makes you think he can do it in the playoffs where it's 10X more intense?

Pop sure as fuck doesn't care about Fathead to bet a playoff game on him.
He'll get the minutes tho

[RD2191]

KA is trash.

[dabom]

He'll get the minutes tho

Not after the first round. 2-4 minutes tops not counting blow out minutes and only because we don't have a legit backup 3. More of a pick your poison type of thing. Certainly not because he earned it.

[look_at_g_shred]

Not after the first round. 2-4 minutes tops not counting blow out minutes and only because we don't have a legit backup 3. More of a pick your poison type of thing. Certainly not because he earned it.
That's the thing with pop though. Since the dude spent time in Austin last year, works hard in practice, doesn't have attitude, and is ready when his name is called, that's what pop considers "earning your spot" not whether or not you lay eggs against elite teams. So by that standard I'm sure he's going to get minutes. I mean, just look at bonner for crying it loud.

[dabom]

That's the thing with pop though. Since the dude spent time in Austin last year, works hard in practice, doesn't have attitude, and is ready when his name is called, that's what pop considers "earning your spot" not whether or not you lay eggs against elite teams. So by that standard I'm sure he's going to get minutes. I mean, just look at bonner for crying it loud.

Are you taking about Cory Joseph? :lmao

Sorry brah. Your explanation isn't right. :td

[dabom]

You people follow the Spurs right? :lol

[look_at_g_shred]

Are you taking about Cory Joseph? :lmao

Sorry brah. Your explanation isn't right. :td
Tha fuck it isn't

[look_at_g_shred]

Take the L

[dabom]

Tha fuck it isn't

That's exactly him. I can even pull some articles where CoJo asks to go back to the Dleague. :lmao

[dabom]

Only thing I remember of CoJo was a garbage dunk on Ibaka in the playoffs. That's it mayne. :lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

That's exactly him. I can even pull some articles where CoJo asks to go back to the Dleague. :lmao
Uhh. You do know they Kyle play for the Austin Spurs right? :lmao

[dabom]

Uhh. You do know they Kyle play for the Austin Spurs right? :lmao

Dleague? :lmao

[dabom]

That's the thing with pop though. Since the dude spent time in Austin last year, works hard in practice, doesn't have attitude, and is ready when his name is called, that's what pop considers "earning your spot" not whether or not you lay eggs against elite teams. So by that standard I'm sure he's going to get minutes. I mean, just look at bonner for crying it loud.

:lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

:lmao
What are you so confused about?

[dabom]

I don't think you get the joke. You made an explanation of how Kyle earned his spot.

I joked that you were talking about CoJo, because he did all those things and he never got playing time on the playoffs you stupid fuck. :lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

I don't think you get the joke. You made an explanation of how Kyle earned his spot.

I joked that you were talking about CoJo, because he did all those things and he never got playing time on the playoffs you stupid fuck. :lmao
That's because Kyle is not the 3rd string PG you fucking faggot.

[dabom]

That's because Kyle is not the 3rd string PG you fucking faggot.

Kyle does a worse job as backup than Cojo as a 3rd stringer faggot. :lmao

[SAGirl]

He had a good game, tbh... I still wouldn't give him one playoff minute after the 1st round, based on his body of work throughout this season...
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Big-nights-from-Aldridge-Anderson-help-Spurs-get-7214196.php#photo-9717775
Kyle wants to play in the postseason and he worked really hard for that opportunity. With all the development opportunities he's gotten recently, unlike you I am inclined to think he's earned it. What he does with his time once he's there is probably going to be under close scrutiny, and in a short leash but Pop said prior to the game he was evaluating players for the postseason and Kyle went out and looked like the Spurs 2nd best player after LMA and played 36 minutes. POP said: He's a good player and has been doing that all season. (In my mind that's an explanation for newcomers to the team that the decision to play Kyle is not solely based on that game. He has shown up every time we are shorthanded).

This is when I cue the 12-1 streak we went into when playing without Manu, Tim and a few games Kawhi. Last season that would have been a loosing skid like the one we had in December but it wasn't bc he showed up like he did in this case. POP has grown to trust him.

[Blake]

How are you ever going to trust KA in the post season if you don't play him :lol like it or not, he's going to get minutes April/May/June

Lol no, he won't get more than a handful of minutes at best in June unless there's injury or blowout

[look_at_g_shred]

Kyle does a worse job as backup than Cojo as a 3rd stringer faggot. :lmao
Kyle is Kawhi's immediate backup. Try again.

[Blake]

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Big-nights-from-Aldridge-Anderson-help-Spurs-get-7214196.php#photo-9717775
Kyle wants to play in the postseason and he worked really hard for that opportunity. With all the development opportunities he's gotten recently, unlike you I am inclined to think he's earned it. What he does with his time once he's there is probably going to be under close scrutiny, and in a short leash but Pop said prior to the game he was evaluating players for the postseason and Kyle went out and looked like the Spurs 2nd best player after LMA and played 36 minutes. POP said: He's a good player and has been doing that all season. (In my mind that's an explanation for newcomers to the team that the decision to play Kyle is not solely based on that game. He has shown up every time we are shorthanded).

This is when I cue the 12-1 streak we went into when playing without Manu, Tim and a few games Kawhi. Last season that would have been a loosing skid like the one we had in December but it wasn't bc he showed up like he did in this case. POP has grown to trust him.

Who's minutes will kyle be taking?

[look_at_g_shred]

Lol no, he won't get more than a handful of minutes at best in June unless there's injury or blowout
Maybe. There's no telling with Pop though.

[dabom]

Kyle is Kawhi's immediate backup. Try again.

Because we don't have another SF yous stupid fuck. :lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

Because we don't have another SF yous stupid fuck. :lmao
Who else gets the minutes then?

[dabom]

Who else gets the minutes then?

Green usually you dumbass. He slides over and Manu plays SG.

[dabom]

Kyle played ZERO minutes in last years playoffs. KA was the only backup SF and never played. We just played other SGs out of position last year.

[look_at_g_shred]

Green usually you dumbass. He slides over and Manu plays SG.
We'll see. I'm all for KA to play only if it's a plus for us. If not, I couldn't care less. As long as we win.

[dabom]

We'll see. I'm all for KA to play only if it's a plus for us. If not, I couldn't care less. As long as we win.

:tu

[Blake]

Who else gets the minutes then?

I think the last Charlotte box score is going to be a pretty decent indicator of the playoff rotation.

Just add the 7 minutes that Kyle got to Boris minutes and we're set

[SAGirl]

Who's minutes will kyle be taking?
Hes backing up Kawhi. That was his role and has been since Simmons lost Pop's trust. He given minutes to get Martin acclimtted, the same way others have given minutes or been rested to get Miller acclimated, but Martin didn't show to be a better player than him and Miller is not going yo backup Kawhi. Easy peasy.

[100%duncan]

People wanting this guy to play past 2nd round will get really disappointed whether he will play or not

[Blake]

Hes backing up Kawhi. That was his role and has been since Simmons lost Pop's trust. He given minutes to get Martin acclimtted, the same way others have given minutes or been rested to get Miller acclimated, but Martin didn't show to be a better player than him and Miller is not going yo backup Kawhi. Easy peasy.

Lol Martin and Miller are like TMac. Simmons will get similar minutes to Kyle.

Pop used a 9 man rotation vs the Clips in game 7 last year. No reason to see him change that.

Tim, Kawhi, Tony, Aldridge, Manu, Boris, Patty, Danny, and West. That's about it in playoff crunch time.

[ElNono]

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Big-nights-from-Aldridge-Anderson-help-Spurs-get-7214196.php#photo-9717775
Kyle wants to play in the postseason and he worked really hard for that opportunity. With all the development opportunities he's gotten recently, unlike you I am inclined to think he's earned it. What he does with his time once he's there is probably going to be under close scrutiny, and in a short leash but Pop said prior to the game he was evaluating players for the postseason and Kyle went out and looked like the Spurs 2nd best player after LMA and played 36 minutes. POP said: He's a good player and has been doing that all season. (In my mind that's an explanation for newcomers to the team that the decision to play Kyle is not solely based on that game. He has shown up every time we are shorthanded).

This is when I cue the 12-1 streak we went into when playing without Manu, Tim and a few games Kawhi. Last season that would have been a loosing skid like the one we had in December but it wasn't bc he showed up like he did in this case. POP has grown to trust him.

I'm not the coach so you don't have anything to worry about. Not hating, just my opinion...

[SAGirl]

I'm not the coach so you don't have anything to worry about. Not hating, just my opinion...
I think if they value him for the future they have to give him a chance. These guys are ppl and bust their assets for the coach. Win him games he could have lost without key players. You have to reward that effort, now if he goes out there and he can't handle the pressure that is another matter.

That is the part that is entirely opinion. You think he's not ready. Me, I think he's a competitor and will bust his was at the role you give him and will not disappoint. But the opportunity, he's earned that TBH.

[SAGirl]

Lol Martin and Miller are like TMac. Simmons will get similar minutes to Kyle.

Pop used a 9 man rotation vs the Clips in game 7 last year. No reason to see him change that.

Tim, Kawhi, Tony, Aldridge, Manu, Boris, Patty, Danny, and West. That's about it in playoff crunch time. he won't play crunch time, but he will play.

[Blake]

he won't play crunch time, but he will play.

Put a number on minutes per game in the 2nd round vs OKC.

[Blake]

I think if they value him for the future they have to give him a chance.

No they don't. They have every right to do what it takes to win right now.

If they value him for the future, they'll pay him.

[SAGirl]

Put a number on minutes per game in the 2nd round vs OKC.
I will not, but his playing time against OKC was not a fluke and we managed to hang for most of that game but the the 3rd Q, severely understaffed at all positions as we were. If anything, he looked better than Danny, Martin, Patty, even Diaw, while he was facing the toughest matchup save those who were rape by Russie. The only one who looked better was Simms ans he got going with easy dunks off Kyle's passes and the bulk if his scoring was in garbage time.

Simmons showed he can play against that bench. I think he may have even earned himself playing time against that matchup in the bench if it wasn't bc he been so unreliable. That game was not a waste of time according to Pop either.

[Blake]

I will not

Why not?

[SAGirl]

Why not?
bc its pointless.

He has to play well in the first round and continue to earn his coach's trust. I am arguing he's earned a chance to do that.

[Blake]

bc its pointless.

He has to play well in the first round and continue to earn his coach's trust. I am arguing he's earned a chance to do that.

Well I think he plays in the first round because Utah blows.

Does he already have enough trust to play meaningful minutes in later rounds or not

[Sean Cagney]

Nice......

[kobyz]

Kyle lack confident, this past week he actually gave up on open layups for a riskier alley oop passes, that's bad...

[TrainOfThought5]

He had a good game, tbh... I still wouldn't give him one playoff minute after the 1st round, based on his body of work throughout this season...

My hopes for him are only slightly less than SAGirl and i completely agree.

[aal04]

holy chit. just saw his video and hes got an LBJ receding hairline. He needs to go bold.

[Chinook]

People need to cool it with the talk of Anderson not getting minutes past the second round. That's NOT how Pop does it. He shortens his rotations if he has to. He doesn't start off playing fewer guys. Sure, he'll play Green and especially Leonard more minutes against OKC. But that's balanced out with OKC going small. Anderson will start off the series having the opportunity to earn minutes. He'd have that same opportunity in the next two series. People forget that Beli was pretty much dropped from the rotation in Game Seven versus Dallas in 2014 (he only played four minutes before garbage time). Pop was asked after the game if Marco was out of the rotation going forward, and Pop said that every series was a new chance to get minutes. Beli played 27 minutes against Portland in Game One of that series, 24 of which were before garbage time.

The idea that Anderson could play poorly enough to not earn further playing time is reasonable. The idea that Pop is going to cut him out preemptively because of a lack of trust really isn't. Someone will need to take the 12 or so minutes currently up for grabs, and Pop's shown little inclination to give those to Martin or Miller over Kyle.

[Darkwaters]

I was at the Memphis game sitting down low. Anderson was very disruptive with deflections and kept making plays that caught everyone's attention. Very impressed with his development up to this point. I didn't think he'd be nearly this effective until next season at the earliest. Glad I was wrong.

[Bearcaught]

He may get some minutes in 1st round mayyyybe 2nd round in playoffs.. but if we see GSW I doubt he will see much. I feel like anyone with just any lick of athleticism can blow right by him and collapse our defense for a layup or kickout... I think hes too much of a risk. Its too bad too really.. I like his passing a lot and wish we could play him more as a point guard maybe have mills play the 2 for defense; it would be cool to see him play his college position a little more. But as far as playoffs go I feel hes just too much of a defensive liability.

[ElNono]

People need to cool it with the talk of Anderson not getting minutes past the second round. That's NOT how Pop does it. He shortens his rotations if he has to. He doesn't start off playing fewer guys. Sure, he'll play Green and especially Leonard more minutes against OKC. But that's balanced out with OKC going small. Anderson will start off the series having the opportunity to earn minutes. He'd have that same opportunity in the next two series. People forget that Beli was pretty much dropped from the rotation in Game Seven versus Dallas in 2014 (he only played four minutes before garbage time). Pop was asked after the game if Marco was out of the rotation going forward, and Pop said that every series was a new chance to get minutes. Beli played 27 minutes against Portland in Game One of that series, 24 of which were before garbage time.

The idea that Anderson could play poorly enough to not earn further playing time is reasonable. The idea that Pop is going to cut him out preemptively because of a lack of trust really isn't. Someone will need to take the 12 or so minutes currently up for grabs, and Pop's shown little inclination to give those to Martin or Miller over Kyle.

I did mention that in another thread... he'll likely get some burn in the 1st round and go from there. But what I'm saying above is that due to what he's shown throughout the season, I'll be surprised if he gets minutes past the 1st round. He's inconsistent, his attention to detail is just not there all the time, he's not aggressive enough sometimes, teams can and likely will target him (for a number of reasons: speed, likes to gamble, etc), and I envision our later-round opponents to be OKC/Clippers/Dubs/Cavs... teams that I don't think he can be used to exploit mismatches. Add that he doesn't have earned respect from the refs yet, and I just think it's difficult. I could be wrong. It doesn't mean he can't be better next season though.

[Chinook]

I did mention that in another thread... he'll likely get some burn in the 1st round and go from there. But what I'm saying above is that due to what he's shown throughout the season, I'll be surprised if he gets minutes past the 1st round. He's inconsistent, his attention to detail is just not there all the time, he's not aggressive enough sometimes, teams can and likely will target him (for a number of reasons: speed, likes to gamble, etc), and I envision our later-round opponents to be OKC/Clippers/Dubs/Cavs... teams that I don't think he can be used to exploit mismatches. Add that he doesn't have earned respect from the refs yet, and I just think it's difficult. I could be wrong. It doesn't mean he can't be better next season though.

I don't see a better option on the roster. As of right now, if the Spurs have any minutes left after Kawhi, Green and Manu, they should go to Anderson unless the other team is playing two PGs. And if the other team goes small, Anderson is the best to take the minutes behind Diaw. I know folks like Brazil want to keep pumping Martin up for shiggles, but he really hasn't been good enough to leap over Anderson for time. I actually like Andre Miller quite a bit, but he's not as versatile.

[Blake]

I don't see a better option on the roster. As of right now, if the Spurs have any minutes left after Kawhi, Green and Manu, they should go to Anderson unless the other team is playing two PGs. And if the other team goes small, Anderson is the best to take the minutes behind Diaw. I know folks like Brazil want to keep pumping Martin up for shiggles, but he really hasn't been good enough to leap over Anderson for time. I actually like Andre Miller quite a bit, but he's not as versatile.

The Spurs are all rested enough. Boris should be able to take up all the minutes behind Kawhi

[SAGirl]

I don't see a better option on the roster. As of right now, if the Spurs have any minutes left after Kawhi, Green and Manu, they should go to Anderson unless the other team is playing two PGs. And if the other team goes small, Anderson is the best to take the minutes behind Diaw. I know folks like Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) want to keep pumping Martin up for shiggles, but he really hasn't been good enough to leap over Anderson for time. I actually like Andre Miller quite a bit, but he's not as versatile.
Martin has actually been the worst player in the team. I suppose some ppl hoped he could displace Anderson but he hasn't. I don't think he's been playing better than even Ray Mac did. Has the worst metrics in the team (worse than both Ray Mac and Butler) and is the only player with a net negative, yikes.

[Chinook]

The Spurs are all rested enough. Boris should be able to take up all the minutes behind Kawhi

Boris not playing the three has nothing to do with his level of rest.

[spursistan]

Martin has actually been the worst player in the team. I suppose some ppl hoped he could displace Anderson but he hasn't. I don't think he's been playing better than even Ray Mac did. Has the worst metrics in the team (worse than both Ray Mac and Butler) and is the only player with a net negative, yikes.
i never had an attachment to end of bench guy like i did to Butler, i honestly think he got a raw deal seen the production of the players that supposedly made him expendable (Martin/Bonner)..

[SAGirl]

The Spurs are all rested enough. Boris should be able to take up all the minutes behind Kawhi
It's unlikely you will survive the entire playoffs with just 3 wings, one of them being 39. We have a lot of options at other positions, but none at the wing better than Anderson (after the 3) and there will be times you need him to get a breather for your best wings to have the energy to finish a game.

[SAGirl]

i never had an attachment to end of bench guy like i did to Butler, i honestly think he got a raw deal seen the production of the players that supposedly made him expendable (Martin/Bonner)..
I think there were games we won this season that if you took Butler out of them and put Martin there in those same games we would have lost.

[Brazil]

Martin has actually been the worst player in the team. I suppose some ppl hoped he could displace Anderson but he hasn't. I don't think he's been playing better than even Ray Mac did. Has the worst metrics in the team (worse than both Ray Mac and Butler) and is the only player with a net negative, yikes.

Your homerism towards slow motion Kyle never cease to amaze me

Martin played 10 games, he had terrible last 3 games still a bit soon to call him a bust... talking about drawing conclusions on small sample... smh

Kyle played 100 games, 70 this year and his metrics are quite terrible tbh... better than Martin during his 10 games with the Spurs... big deal. If Spurs have to rely on KA significant minutes during POs we are pretty much fucked

[dabom]

Your homerism towards slow motion Kyle never cease to amaze me

Martin played 10 games, he had terrible last 3 games still a bit soon to call him a bust... talking about drawing conclusions on small sample... smh

Kyle played 100 games, 70 this year and his metrics are quite terrible tbh... better than Martin during his 10 games with the Spurs... big deal. If Spurs have to rely on KA significant minutes during POs we are pretty much fucked
:lol

[Blake]

Boris not playing the three has nothing to do with his level of rest.

I'm fine with him playing hybrid 3-4 with some 1 sprinkled in over playing Kyle

[Blake]

It's unlikely you will survive the entire playoffs with just 3 wings, one of them being 39. We have a lot of options at other positions, but none at the wing better than Anderson (after the 3) and there will be times you need him to get a breather for your best wings to have the energy to finish a game.

So just how many minutes do you propose kyle get against OKC?

[Blake]

I'm fine with him playing hybrid 3-4 with some 1 sprinkled in over playing Kyle

With probably Danny in the wing and West at the 4

[Chinook]

I'm fine with him playing hybrid 3-4 with some 1 sprinkled in over playing Kyle

You can be fine with it all you want, but the Spurs haven't played Diaw at the three outside of extreme garbage time in years. That's especially true against the teams the Spurs are scheduled to play in the post-season. None of them have threes Boris can guard, and having him post up as a three isn't great for the offense, especially given his current shooting inconsistency.

[Chinook]

Your homerism towards slow motion Kyle never cease to amaze me

Martin played 10 games, he had terrible last 3 games

Those three games comprise about 50 percent of his total Spurs minutes. I also think it's too soon to call him a bust, but yeah, he's not getting minutes over Anderson based on his play so far. People need to admit that instead of pretending that the Spurs have a legit option worth keeping Anderson from at least getting a chance to play himself out of the playoff rotation.

[coachmac87]

Kyle just needs to learn how to shoot. If he can do that...sky is the limit for him.

[SAGirl]

I was at the Memphis game sitting down low. Anderson was very disruptive with deflections and kept making plays that caught everyone's attention. Very impressed with his development up to this point. I didn't think he'd be nearly this effective until next season at the earliest. Glad I was wrong.
:tu Glad he put on a show in this game and that it was still a fun game to watch. Thanks for sharing your experience seeing him live!

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjF3c9eTNJI

Good. Trade him while his stock is high, tbh.

[dabom]

Good. Trade him while his stock is high, tbh.

:lol

[spurraider21]

Good. Trade him while his stock is high, tbh.
too bad jimmer never knew the feeling :lmao

[SAGirl]

Kyle just needs to learn how to shoot. If he can do that...sky is the limit for him.
HE at least has stopped passing up open corner 3s.. He made one in OKC and was 1 of 2 in this game. As long as he continues that way that may be enough for his role this season.

[SAGirl]

Your homerism towards slow motion Kyle never cease to amaze me

Martin played 10 games, he had terrible last 3 games still a bit soon to call him a bust... talking about drawing conclusions on small sample... smh

Kyle played 100 games, 70 this year and his metrics are quite terrible tbh... better than Martin during his 10 games with the Spurs... big deal. If Spurs have to rely on KA significant minutes during POs we are pretty much fucked
I am pointing up facts. Martin hasn't played well and he wasn't playing well in the Twolves either. Kyle is 22 yrs old. The games he played lAst season, not only was he a rookie, but they included a lot of garbage time minutes next to guys who are out of the league, you could say worse players than him. He wasn't integrated into the rotation in term of Pop playing him to his strengths or anything like that.

Since end of January, he's played a lot of minutes against starters. Has started every game Kawhi has sat, has played for Tim. Martin's stats are probably worse if he had to start the games Kyle did. He's being hidden against the bench's outscoring threats etc. Kyle is learning how to play in the league this season and he has not been a net negative player, Martin has.

[dabom]

I am pointing up facts. Martin hasn't played well and he wasn't playing well in the Twolves either. Kyle is 22 yrs old. The games he played lAst season, not only was he a rookie, but they included a lot of garbage time minutes next to guys who are out of the league, you could say worse players than him. He wasn't integrated into the rotation in term of Pop playing him to his strengths or anything like that. He's played a lot of minutes against starters. Has started every game Kawhi has sat, has played for Tim. Martin's stats are probably worse if he had to start the games Kyle did. He's been hidden a against the beach's outscoring threats etc. He has not been a net negative player, Martin has.

Kyle Fathead Anderson has a NEGATIVE RPM you stupid bitch. He ain't doing shit either. :lmao

[dabom]

Criticize martin for bad metrics but not for Fathead. :lmao

[dabom]

I'm guessing SAGirl is a troll. I'm convinced. No basketball knowledge what so ever. :lol

[Blake]

You can be fine with it all you want, but the Spurs haven't played Diaw at the three outside of extreme garbage time in years. That's especially true against the teams the Spurs are scheduled to play in the post-season. None of them have threes Boris can guard, and having him post up as a three isn't great for the offense, especially given his current shooting inconsistency.


Just how many minutes do you think kyle will get in round 2? Take a guess.

[Chinook]

Just how many minutes do you think kyle will get in round 2? Take a guess.

Depends on who the Spurs opponent is. Probably fewer than 10 if it's OKC. Possibly near 20 if it's Portland.

[Blake]

Depends on who the Spurs opponent is. Probably fewer than 10 if it's OKC. Possibly near 20 if it's Portland.

Why 20 vs Portland?

And if he's needed so badly to back up the 3, why only 10 vs OKC

[ceperez]

Bottom line.

(1) Aggressively take and make those open 3 pointers.
(2) Aggressively use his length to take those wide open layups.

.... next season....

(3) hit the weight room and get stronger.

[Chinook]

Why 20 vs Portland?

And if he's needed so badly to back up the 3, why only 10 vs OKC

Pop only shortens his rotation if he has to. Against Portland, he shouldn't have to. And the Blazers also play small quite a bit with Aminu, who isn't good enough offensively to warrant overplaying Kawhi. Against OKC, Leonard for sure and probably Green are going to mostly match minutes with Durant and Westbrook. If Kawhi is averaging 40mpg, there simply won't be a ton of minutes behind him.

[SAGirl]

So just how many minutes do you propose kyle get against OKC?
I already answered that for you a few rows back. You not being satisfied with the answer will make us go in circles. I think he backs up Kawhi. Kawhi and Durant going at it for maybe 40 minutes means there will be a very short supply of SF minutes remaining and that is perfectly fine.

Everything else is pure speculation as it depends who else OKC is throwing out there, foul trouble situations, who's playing poorly or well, etc. Ex. are they going small with Durant? Who are OKC other perimeter players in that case? Are they guards you want Miller to handle, maybe even try Simmons or Martin there see if they give you anything, or are they wings with more size and better rebounding? Who has been playing well?) In general too much speculation depending on what the other team is doing, what matchups they are putting out there, foul trouble situations etc.

[Blake]

Pop only shortens his rotation if he has to. Against Portland, he shouldn't have to. And the Blazers also play small quite a bit with Aminu, who isn't good enough offensively to warrant overplaying Kawhi. Against OKC, Leonard for sure and probably Green are going to mostly match minutes with Durant and Westbrook. If Kawhi is averaging 40mpg, there simply won't be a ton of minutes behind him.

Kawhi didn't even hit the 40 minute mark against the Clippers last year. Who subbed in for him?

[Chinook]

Kawhi didn't even hit the 40 minute mark against the Clippers last year. Who subbed in for him?

The Clippers didn't have a star SF for him to guard. And I think it was Beli who subbed in.

[Blake]

I already answered that for you a few rows back. You not being satisfied with the answer will make us go in circles.

You answered that you didn't want to answer. I get it, you're more worried about being proven wrong later than just having a fun discussion about Kyle's playoff value.

[Blake]

The Clippers didn't have a star SF for him to guard. And I think it was Beli who subbed in.

So you're expecting Kyle to guard a star SF? I'm not following

[Chinook]

So you're expecting Kyle to guard a star SF? I'm not following

You don't seem to be listening but rather trying to pull a Chump. Kawhi is more likely to play big minutes against a team like OKC than a team like Portland. That makes up most of the minutes gap in my projections. Using the series against LAC last year as a counter is problematic for multiple reasons. The one I listed was that Kawhi didn't have a SF he had to guard.

[Brazil]

Those three games comprise about 50 percent of his total Spurs minutes. I also think it's too soon to call him a bust, but yeah, he's not getting minutes over Anderson based on his play so far. People need to admit that instead of pretending that the Spurs have a legit option worth keeping Anderson from at least getting a chance to play himself out of the playoff rotation.




still a bit soon to call him a bust... talking about drawing conclusions on small sample... smh

[Chinook]

Did you miss the part where I agreed with that? The point isn't that he's proven to be awful. It's that he hasn't proven to be good. No reason at all to assume he's getting the nod over Anderson.

[Spurtacular]

too bad jimmer never knew the feeling :lmao

immer was traded on draft night, jackass.

[Blake]

I don't see a better option on the roster. As of right now, if the Spurs have any minutes left after Kawhi, Green and Manu, they should go to Anderson unless the other team is playing two PGs.

This is your statement that I'm reading just fine.

You want to talk Pop's past history on playoff rotations, but there's little to no history of Pop trusting a young end of the bench player in the playoffs for anything more than emergency or garbage minutes.

[dabom]

This is your statement that I'm reading just fine.

You want to talk Pop's past history on playoff rotations, but there's little to no history of Pop trusting a young end of the bench player in the playoffs for anything more than emergency or garbage minutes.

[Brazil]

I am pointing up facts. Martin hasn't played well and he wasn't playing well in the Twolves either. Kyle is 22 yrs old. The games he played lAst season, not only was he a rookie, but they included a lot of garbage time minutes next to guys who are out of the league, you could say worse players than him. He wasn't integrated into the rotation in term of Pop playing him to his strengths or anything like that.

Since end of January, he's played a lot of minutes against starters. Has started every game Kawhi has sat, has played for Tim. Martin's stats are probably worse if he had to start the games Kyle did. He's being hidden against the bench's outscoring threats etc. Kyle is learning how to play in the league this season and he has not been a net negative player, Martin has.

:lol facts

Spurs are not using martin like Twolves, saying his suckage playing for Spurs is consistent with his time with Twolves is at best dishonest. Martin played 147 mn with Spurs, so from those 147 mn you conclude dude is a bust... fortunately ST is being much more patient with your boy Kyle who played 1,400 mn... thing is during this 1,400 mn he did not show anything much different than his college years... talking about consistency.

Despite working with chip his 3 pts is worst than college years, his assists per 36 are worst, his FG% is worst... he is as slow as anticipated, hesitant as fuck on offense passing up open shoots on the regular, getting abused on defense due to his lack of lateral quickness. I wish him to be successful and I wish eating a crow but you are making a lot of excuses for him tbh

[dabom]

:lol facts

Spurs are not using martin like Twolves, saying his suckage playing for Spurs is consistent with his time with Twolves is at best dishonest. Martin played 147 mn with Spurs, so from those 147 mn you conclude dude is a bust... fortunately ST is being much more patient with your boy Kyle who played 1,400 mn... thing is during this 1,400 mn he did not show anything much different than his college years... talking about consistency.

Despite working with chip his 3 pts is worst than college years, his assists per 36 are worst, his FG% is worst... he is as slow as anticipated, hesitant as fuck on offense passing up open shoots on the regular, getting abused on defense due to his lack of lateral quickness. I wish him to be successful and I wish eating a crow but you are making a lot of excuses for him tbh

Don't feed the troll brah. Too easy to pick them apart tbh... :lol

[Chinook]

This is your statement that I'm reading just fine.

You want to talk Pop's past history on playoff rotations, but there's little to no history of Pop trusting a young end of the bench player in the playoffs for anything more than emergency or garbage minutes.

You aren't actually reading it fine if you are wondering why Kyle's minutes would fluctuate between a series with Portland and a series with OKC. I do think it's odd that you're calling Anderson an end-of-bench player, though, considering he has a solid rotation spot. Someone like Boban or Miller is an end-of-bench player. Anderson plays every game and gets significantly more minutes than the others if key guys are out. You're acting like he's at the same place as Simmons, and that's just not the case.

[ElNono]

I don't see a better option on the roster. As of right now, if the Spurs have any minutes left after Kawhi, Green and Manu, they should go to Anderson unless the other team is playing two PGs. And if the other team goes small, Anderson is the best to take the minutes behind Diaw. I know folks like Brazil want to keep pumping Martin up for shiggles, but he really hasn't been good enough to leap over Anderson for time. I actually like Andre Miller quite a bit, but he's not as versatile.

It really doesn't have to be like that. You can play a 3 guard lineup regardless of what the other team does. The question is if it's Martin or Miller depending if you can hide a player or not (ie: against OKC's bench, it should be easier to hide Martin, against the Clippers bench, it might make more sense to play Miller as PG, Patty as SG and Manu at SF). And it's not like those guys can't fuck up either, but experience does matter, and Pop does put a premium on that, IMO.

[ElNono]

This is your statement that I'm reading just fine.

You want to talk Pop's past history on playoff rotations, but there's little to no history of Pop trusting a young end of the bench player in the playoffs for anything more than emergency or garbage minutes.

Yeah, even much more seasoned guys like Oberto and Thiago had to warm up the bench in the playoffs... Blair had the same treatment IIRC...

[Chinook]

The question is if it's Martin or Miller

That's only the question if you assume those guys are ahead of Anderson. There's been absolutely nothing to suggest they are. Martin's been bad on both sides of the ball. Miller has been good, at least in my opinion, but he can't fill the cracks in the same way Anderson can. I do think there are minutes for Andre in some match-ups, but that's not a more solid rotation spot than Anderson has.

[Blake]

You aren't actually reading it fine if you are wondering why Kyle's minutes would fluctuate between a series with Portland and a series with OKC. I do think it's odd that you're calling Anderson an end-of-bench player, though, considering he has a solid rotation spot. Someone like Boban or Miller is an end-of-bench player. Anderson plays every game and gets significantly more minutes than the others if key guys are out. You're acting like he's at the same place as Simmons, and that's just not the case.

I'm asking you why you think Kyle's minutes would fluctuate.

I don't think he gets meaningful minutes vs Portland or OKC or GS, period.

I expect Pop to throw nothing but older veterans out there, no matter what matchup disadvantages you think there might be

[spurraider21]

immer was traded on draft night, jackass.
:lol the peak of jimmers value was before he played in an NBA game

[Chinook]

Yeah, even much more seasoned guys like Oberto and Thiago had to warm up the bench in the playoffs... Blair had the same treatment IIRC...

Tiago was a stable rotation player his second post-season. He wasn't the key cog he'd become the next year, but at 13mpg, he played plenty more than you guys are assuming Anderson would play.

[Chinook]

I'm asking you why you think Kyle's minutes would fluctuate.

I don't think he gets meaningful minutes vs Portland or OKC or GS

You're asking because you didn't understand my statement. I said he'd get the minutes those other guys didn't. Those guys won't play all of the minutes, and how many they play depends on the quality of their opponent. It's not rocket science. Pop would ideally like to play his guys low minutes for the whole post-season. So if he is facing a weaker team, he'll do what he can to keep his main guys' minutes down. If he does that, Anderson plays more. It's simple.

This is only hard to people who are assuming Martin or Miller will be a bona fide rotation player, and there's no evidence that Pop even wants that now and even less that those guys are earning one.

[Brazil]

Tiago was a stable rotation player his second post-season. He wasn't the key cog he'd become the next year, but at 13mpg, he played plenty more than you guys are assuming Anderson would play.

Except Tiago was a much more experienced player with already a long career overseas... not very comparable tbh

[dabom]

Except Tiago was a much more experienced player with already a long career overseas... not very comparable tbh

:tu

[Chinook]

Except Tiago was a much more experienced player with already a long career overseas... not very comparable tbh

I wasn't the one who made the comparison. We can talk about Hill playing more in his second year. Or Green being a rotation player his second year in the system.

[Brazil]

I wasn't the one who made the comparison. We can talk about Hill playing more in his second year. Or Green being a rotation player his second year in the system.

but you are the one saying: "but at 13mpg, he played plenty more than you guys are assuming Anderson would play." I'm just pointing out, that's not a great comparaison.

Danny was 24, Kyle is 22 and was playing 23 mn with the spurs significantly more than Kyle
George was 23 and playing almost 30 mpg twice as much as Kyle

There is nothing in Tiago, Danny and George second year indicative of how much Pop will use Kyle...

BTW George and Kyle have been selected same rank in draft, difference of production, evolution vs. college years at almost same age is quite telling

[GSH]

One good game, and he went from being a Stretch-4 to a Point-Forward. (I guess four guys like Kyle and a Center, and you'd have a complete team.) How many times this season has Fathead made more than one 3-pointers in a single game? Twice. Two times he's made two 3-pointers in a game. And we all saw what happens when he's put on someone like Durant. It's kinda hard to be either a Stretch-4 or a Point-Forward when you don't stretch the defense, you aren't strong enough to post up forwards, and you really can't defend like a forward.

You know what a "taint" is? ('Taint your ass and 'taint your balls neither.) With a few exceptions, "combo" players are the taints of the NBA. That's because they get forced into the worst of both skill sets by good teams. They can be good players - except in those situations where they aren't.

I've said from the beginning that Kyle should be able to develop into a useful role/situation player. Boris has the strength to post up a lot of guys, and the handles to go under/around a lot of others. His skills and physical attributes are good enough to actually dominate in a lot of situations. Kyle is adequate in a number of areas. Which, translated, means that he gets his ass kicked about as often as he kicks ass. He'll have some good games, depending on who he's matched up with. But he needs work and improvement before he's consistent enough to be a meaningful playoff player for the Spurs.

BTW - since nobody has mentioned it, the one noteworthy area where Kyle has improved is his in-between game. So he's shooting a lot more of those shots this season, and his FG% has improved. Did you see him on that fast break against Memphis? A good Point-Forward would have taken it to the rack. But Kyle gets run down from behind a LOT on fast breaks, and doesn't have the athleticism to adjust at the rim to be sure he doesn't get blocked. So Fathead stops a fast break to pull up and shoot about a 14-footer. THAT is his comfort zone. To his credit, he knocked it down. But even a good percentage on those shots is a lot worse than the layups that fast breaks should be getting.

[SAGirl]

You answered that you didn't want to answer. I get it, you're more worried about being proven wrong later than just having a fun discussion about Kyle's playoff value.
I answered twice. Again circles. I think you are the one who cares too much to be right on this. Twice I answered, twice.

[SAGirl]

It really doesn't have to be like that. You can play a 3 guard lineup regardless of what the other team does. The question is if it's Martin or Miller depending if you can hide a player or not (ie: against OKC's bench, it should be easier to hide Martin, against the Clippers bench, it might make more sense to play Miller as PG, Patty as SG and Manu at SF). And it's not like those guys can't fuck up either, but experience does matter, and Pop does put a premium on that, IMO.
You give up a lot playing 3 guards. Manu used to be so good he could hide horrible lineups. Marco also was only valuable if he was on fire. Otherwise you had to go with someone else. Danny/Kawhi being so young meant you didn't have to play Marco much if you didn't want to or if he was being eaten alive on defense. I don't think Martin has been as good as Marco offensively. Hater or whoever called that was right. They already have a lot of trouble rebounding and OKC is a team this season that plays a lot of wings with size and strength to bully small guards.

I am not going to Nostradamus anything on this one bc it really depends on matchups from OKC and as I argued initially I simply stated Kyle has earned a chance. He has to reward the coach's trust with good play.

[Spurtacular]

:lol the peak of jimmers value was before he played in an NBA game

I imagine you can relate. The peak of your value was probably the day you were born.

[SAGirl]

One good game, and he went from being a Stretch-4 to a Point-Forward. (I guess four guys like Kyle and a Center, and you'd have a complete team.) How many times this season has Fathead made more than one 3-pointers in a single game? Twice. Two times he's made two 3-pointers in a game. And we all saw what happens when he's put on someone like Durant. It's kinda hard to be either a Stretch-4 or a Point-Forward when you don't stretch the defense, you aren't strong enough to post up forwards, and you really can't defend like a forward.

You know what a "taint" is? ('Taint your ass and 'taint your balls neither.) With a few exceptions, "combo" players are the taints of the NBA. That's because they get forced into the worst of both skill sets by good teams. They can be good players - except in those situations where they aren't.

I've said from the beginning that Kyle should be able to develop into a useful role/situation player. Boris has the strength to post up a lot of guys, and the handles to go under/around a lot of others. His skills and physical attributes are good enough to actually dominate in a lot of situations. Kyle is adequate in a number of areas. Which, translated, means that he gets his ass kicked about as often as he kicks ass. He'll have some good games, depending on who he's matched up with. But he needs work and improvement before he's consistent enough to be a meaningful playoff player for the Spurs.

BTW - since nobody has mentioned it, the one noteworthy area where Kyle has improved is his in-between game. So he's shooting a lot more of those shots this season, and his FG% has improved. Did you see him on that fast break against Memphis? A good Point-Forward would have taken it to the rack. But Kyle gets run down from behind a LOT on fast breaks, and doesn't have the athleticism to adjust at the rim to be sure he doesn't get blocked. So Fathead stops a fast break to pull up and shoot about a 14-footer. THAT is his comfort zone. To his credit, he knocked it down. But even a good percentage on those shots is a lot worse than the layups that fast breaks should be getting.

This is not his only good game. He had several good games when we were shorthanded. We probably don't win 12 games without Kawhi, Tim and Manu unless he played well. In Pop's interview in the article I quoted above Pop stated quite literally that "he's a good player and that he's been doing that all season." (Imo, showing up with good play when we have been shorthanded). If anything, he hasn't been played enough to his strengths bc he has been shoehorned into a role by the needs of this current team and he is still learning how to play.

He wasn't a match for Durant but really, there are few guys in the league who are, and they are max or near max players. If that is your standard then you are being unreasonable. He's a quality bench player currently. Against other bench players or some non star players like Matt Barnes he can have good games. That frankly is a nice young player to have.

[Blake]

I answered twice. Again circles. I think you are the one who cares too much to be right on this. Twice I answered, twice.

I really don't care enough to go back to dig up how many minutes you said.

I find it hilarious whenever people type "I already posted that" when it takes almost identical effort to just repeat themselves

If that's your way of saying your done talking about it, fine by me. Of course, you could also just stop talking about it.

[Blake]

I imagine you can relate. The peak of your value was probably the day you were born.

1/10 burn

[ElNono]

That's only the question if you assume those guys are ahead of Anderson. There's been absolutely nothing to suggest they are. Martin's been bad on both sides of the ball. Miller has been good, at least in my opinion, but he can't fill the cracks in the same way Anderson can. I do think there are minutes for Andre in some match-ups, but that's not a more solid rotation spot than Anderson has.

I don't know about that. So far, KMart has played basically the same MPG as Anderson (Kyle 15.3, KMart 14.7). Simms is not that far behind, BTW, at 14.3, but he did play less games, and I would consider him also another player that might not be ready for the big stage, barring injury. Also Pop has been explicit that he got KMart because the thought he would use him. We'll see I suppose.

[ElNono]

You give up a lot playing 3 guards. Manu used to be so good he could hide horrible lineups. Marco also was only valuable if he was on fire. Otherwise you had to go with someone else. Danny/Kawhi being so young meant you didn't have to play Marco much if you didn't want to or if he was being eaten alive on defense. I don't think Martin has been as good as Marco offensively. Hater or whoever called that was right. They already have a lot of trouble rebounding and OKC is a team this season that plays a lot of wings with size and strength to bully small guards.

I am not going to Nostradamus anything on this one bc it really depends on matchups from OKC and as I argued initially I simply stated Kyle has earned a chance. He has to reward the coach's trust with good play.

It is about matchups, but it's also about execution and consistency. That's absolutely key in the playoffs. That's why I don't see Anderson past the 1st round. He's just not very good right now.

[Spurtacular]

1/10 burn

I think 2 or 3 may have been warranted given that it was a comeback and not a desperate attempt to be funny. But thanks for your feedback.

[BD24]

I imagine Sagirl is off somewhere touching herself to these highlights

[SAGirl]

but you are the one saying: "but at 13mpg, he played plenty more than you guys are assuming Anderson would play." I'm just pointing out, that's not a great comparaison.

Danny was 24, Kyle is 22 and was playing 23 mn with the spurs significantly more than Kyle
George was 23 and playing almost 30 mpg twice as much as Kyle

There is nothing in Tiago, Danny and George second year indicative of how much Pop will use Kyle...

BTW George and Kyle have been selected same rank in draft, difference of production, evolution vs. college years at almost same age is quite telling

George played all 4 yrs in college. Kyle came in as a sophomore to a team that didn't have a need for his skill set immediately as they were looking to repeat back then and they could afford to let him develop in his own time. By all means, it seems Spurs are happy with his progress.

Only in Spurs talk a young roleplayer has a good game and instead of being inspired since we have so few good young prospects it inspires a hate wagon.! :lol

[SAGirl]

It is about matchups, but it's also about execution and consistency. That's absolutely key in the playoffs. That's why I don't see Anderson past the 1st round. He's just not very good right now.
I think he's played well enough after getting more time and opportunities. Can't count early season struggles when he was benched for a single mistake. A necessity since he was a rookie-like player, in formative stages of his game, but which also made him play more timid. He has since then been playing much better.

Besides, isn't there a lengthy thread about how inconsistent the committee has been in general?

[Chinook]

I don't know about that. So far, KMart has played basically the same MPG as Anderson (Kyle 15.3, KMart 14.7). Simms is not that far behind, BTW, at 14.3

This is why using mpg was always a poor choice. I am more talking about Brazil than you. But yeah. Anderson has played 18.2 minutes per game since Martin's been on the team. Half of Martin's total Spurs minutes (74) have been in the last three games, and Anderson has played more minutes (91) in those games. They really aren't close right now. Of the 10 games Martin and Anderson have both played, Kyle has played more minutes in seven of those.


Also Pop has been explicit that he got KMart because the thought he would use him.

He got Boban for the same reason. That doesn't mean either will be in the playoff rotation.


We'll see I suppose.

Indeed, that's all we can do.

[Rustyman]

Why all the hate for KA? He is a young guy with warts who is learning how to be a good player. He is very versatile so it will take a bit longer for him to master all the skills he needs than someone like Simmons who has a defined role.

The Spurs aren't getting any better prospects than Kyle unless they trade a rotation piece so enjoy his journey. It reminds me in some ways of the road Kawahi took in that it took him until his 3rd year before we saw what he could become. No one can say during Kawahi's second year that he would become the player he is today. I don't expect the same growth from KA but I do believe he is a piece of the long-term future.

[Chinook]

but you are the one saying: "but at 13mpg, he played plenty more than you guys are assuming Anderson would play." I'm just pointing out, that's not a great comparaison.

That's getting it twisted. Someone was like, "Splitter didn't play, so why would Kyle." I was like, "Splitter was a rotation player his second year." And you try to make it seem like I'm making a bad comparison. I'm not making any comparison. The issue here is that people are trying to compare Anderson in his second year to other players in their first years. Pop has indeed given second-year guys shots in the playoffs. His age has nothing to do with it. The Spurs will either need him or they won't. But they aren't falling all over themselves to get a vet to take his place. There's no reason at all to trust Martin over Anderson right now. None at all.

[ElNono]

This is why using mpg was always a poor choice. I am more talking about Brazil than you. But yeah. Anderson has played 18.2 minutes per game since Martin's been on the team. Half of Martin's total Spurs minutes (74) have been in the last three games, and Anderson has played more minutes (91) in those games. They really aren't close right now. Of the 10 games Martin and Anderson have both played, Kyle has played more minutes in seven of those.

Lots of injuries/resting in the last 3 games, not sure it's a barometer.


He got Boban for the same reason. That doesn't mean either will be in the playoff rotation.

He was asked point blank about that when we added him though, IIRC... (if the team could use him due to being in the team so late)

I mean, I'll have much less of a problem if Kyle has a medium role in the playoffs than Bonner...

[ElNono]

Why all the hate for KA?

This is the other argument I don't get. It's not "hating" to say he's still young and some people just think he's not ready yet for a bigger playoff role.

[AFMadison]

Kyle will see some PT past the first round. I don't understand the attacks on SAgirl. Kyle has had his ups and downs but has shown improvement. I doubt we see Kyle against the Warriors, but if we play the Thunder I think he gets meaningful pt, not in crunch time.

[GSH]

This is not his only good game. He had several good games when we were shorthanded. We probably don't win 12 games without Kawhi, Tim and Manu unless he played well. In Pop's interview in the article I quoted above Pop stated quite literally that "he's a good player and that he's been doing that all season." (Imo, showing up with good play when we have been shorthanded). If anything, he hasn't been played enough to his strengths bc he has been shoehorned into a role by the needs of this current team and he is still learning how to play.

He wasn't a match for Durant but really, there are few guys in the league who are, and they are max or near max players. If that is your standard then you are being unreasonable. He's a quality bench player currently. Against other bench players or some non star players like Matt Barnes he can have good games. That frankly is a nice young player to have.


He's been "shoehorned into a role"? What, exactly, is his role? You're the one who called him a stretch-4, just a day or two before. Actually, you've called him a wing, a stretch-4, and a point-forward. He's everything but a C, according to you. Yeah, that's a pretty amazing player to have.

When the resident bandwagon can't put her finger on exactly what he is, it's because he hasn't distinguished himself at any of those things. In the playoffs, he'll be facing guys who HAVE distinguished themselves at their positions. And that's why so few tweeners are factors on good teams. I've more than given Anderson the benefit of a doubt, but damned if I'm buying into the BS that he's some multi-faceted Diaw 2.0. He's a damn tweener. When he's a point, people crow because he's a TALL point, not because he's a really good point. When he's a big, people crow because he's a big who can put the ball on the floor, not because he's a really good big. That's pretty much the definition of tweener.

I notice you didn't comment on the fact that he's only made 2 3-pointers in a game twice. So the "stretch" is sort of a stretch. Don't blame me for noticing.

[GSH]

This is the other argument I don't get. It's not "hating" to say he's still young and some people just think he's not ready yet for a bigger playoff role.


We have a winner!

[Rustyman]

This is the other argument I don't get. It's not "hating" to say he's still young and some people just think he's not ready yet for a bigger playoff role.

That's my point though. He is young. He is not the finished article. He still has no clearly defined position.

However, he has talent. We can see that. He is a playmaker. Hopefully he becomes a better and more willing shooter. He probably will not be able to improve his speed much but he has quick and active hands a very good basketball IQ so there is a reasonable expectation that he will improve as a player.

I was more referring to the comments which seem to imply he is trash and will never amount to much as a player. I think he has the potential to become a starter in the next couple of years or a Manu style bench player.

I just don't understand the constant insults about his looks and his game.

[GSH]

That's my point though. He is young. He is not the finished article. He still has no clearly defined position.

However, he has talent. We can see that. He is a playmaker. Hopefully he becomes a better and more willing shooter. He probably will not be able to improve his speed much but he has quick and active hands a very good basketball IQ so there is a reasonable expectation that he will improve as a player.

I was more referring to the comments which seem to imply he is trash and will never amount to much as a player. I think he has the potential to become a starter in the next couple of years or a Manu style bench player.

I just don't understand the constant insults about his looks and his game.


Someone questioned whether he will get a lot of minutes in the playoffs. A few people said they don't think so, and that equals hating? So tell me... how is someone supposed to explain WHY they don't think he gets a lot of playoff minutes without being able to discuss his game?

Better still... even YOU say that "he's still young", he "has no clearly defined position", and "he is not the finished article". What about that makes you think he will get a lot of playoff minutes? Or should?

[SAGirl]

One good game, and he went from being a Stretch-4 to a Point-Forward. (I guess four guys like Kyle and a Center, and you'd have a complete team.) How many times this season has Fathead made more than one 3-pointers in a single game? Twice. Two times he's made two 3-pointers in a game. And we all saw what happens when he's put on someone like Durant. It's kinda hard to be either a Stretch-4 or a Point-Forward when you don't stretch the defense, you aren't strong enough to post up forwards, and you really can't defend like a forward.

You know what a "taint" is? ('Taint your ass and 'taint your balls neither.) With a few exceptions, "combo" players are the taints of the NBA. That's because they get forced into the worst of both skill sets by good teams. They can be good players - except in those situations where they aren't.

I've said from the beginning that Kyle should be able to develop into a useful role/situation player. Boris has the strength to post up a lot of guys, and the handles to go under/around a lot of others. His skills and physical attributes are good enough to actually dominate in a lot of situations. Kyle is adequate in a number of areas. Which, translated, means that he gets his ass kicked about as often as he kicks ass. He'll have some good games, depending on who he's matched up with. But he needs work and improvement before he's consistent enough to be a meaningful playoff player for the Spurs.

BTW - since nobody has mentioned it, the one noteworthy area where Kyle has improved is his in-between game. So he's shooting a lot more of those shots this season, and his FG% has improved. Did you see him on that fast break against Memphis? A good Point-Forward would have taken it to the rack. But Kyle gets run down from behind a LOT on fast breaks, and doesn't have the athleticism to adjust at the rim to be sure he doesn't get blocked. So Fathead stops a fast break to pull up and shoot about a 14-footer. THAT is his comfort zone. To his credit, he knocked it down. But even a good percentage on those shots is a lot worse than the layups that fast breaks should be getting.
I think combo forward used to be the taint. Nowadays there are guys like Draymond, Giannis, who defy a description. I don't think Kyle is on that level but he defies definition. He could legitimately be played as a 3 and would be fine in any other team. He has the skills for it. I think it is Pop who has wanted him to learn to play as a 4. Many of the bad combo forwards come into the league as undersized 4 that cannot play in the perimeter as a 3, but they are also not an NBA 4. Kyle is unusual bc he came in as a perimeter player that Pop wants to at least play partially as a 4, and this is just based on watching the amount of time Pop has him at this spot + I imagine all the sessions they review tape so he can correct mistakes, specially defensively. It is a bit different.

I didn't dispute the 3 point shooting bc he's been reluctant to shoot (athough lately he's letting go at least a couple per game.) He's still not a good enough shooter and why make an issue of that. I don't act like he has no flaws. He's still like Diaw, will probably not launch every time he could launch, but he's shooting more than he used to and as you point out, he's made a couple recently too.

I do critique and admit his limitations, I just probably appreciate his good skills (how smart he is and his passing) and I believe he can still make improvements to his game bc it is early in his career, unlike veterans who are who they are and you live with the good and the bad.

[Rustyman]

Someone questioned whether he will get a lot of minutes in the playoffs. A few people said they don't think so, and that equals hating? So tell me... how is someone supposed to explain WHY they don't think he gets a lot of playoff minutes without being able to discuss his game?

Better still... even YOU say that "he's still young", he "has no clearly defined position", and "he is not the finished article". What about that makes you think he will get a lot of playoff minutes? Or should?

I said nothing about playoff minutes but if it requires someone to trash a player to make his argument, then obviously I don't understand that line of reasoning.

If you think he is not getting major playoff minutes, I agree. If you think he is not getting any playoff minutes, I disagree. In the end, his minutes will be decided by Pop's decision on what are good matchup's for Kyle and his performance on the court.

Everything else is poorly founded supposition with those shouting largest making the most outlandish claims.

[SAGirl]

That's my point though. He is young. He is not the finished article. He still has no clearly defined position.

However, he has talent. We can see that. He is a playmaker. Hopefully he becomes a better and more willing shooter. He probably will not be able to improve his speed much but he has quick and active hands a very good basketball IQ so there is a reasonable expectation that he will improve as a player.

I was more referring to the comments which seem to imply he is trash and will never amount to much as a player. I think he has the potential to become a starter in the next couple of years or a Manu style bench player.

I just don't understand the constant insults about his looks and his game.

ElNono isn't one of these guys, and there are a few others guys who are not a fan of him and will be critical, and that is fine, but then there is a whole other section of kids who post here who love to just troll. Fir them he's just "the flavor of the month." Last season it was Tony.

I just ignore those guys for the most part bc they can't be engaged in any reasonable interesting discussion and they just crave attention. All their hating on Kyle even after good games might be a call for attention. I let you to sort out who these guys are.

[GSH]

I think combo forward used to be the taint. Nowadays there are guys like Draymond, Giannis, who defy a description. I don't think Kyle is on that level but he defies definition.

I said there were exceptions - but not many. Giannis has freakish athleticism, and Draymond has an unusual combination of athleticism and strength. (I think Green has been juicing, but that's another story.) It takes exceptional physical ability and skills to be a really successful combo player. It requires things that can't be taught. Anderson isn't on that level, and he isn't ever going to be on that level. That's not a knock on him as a player, it's just reality. I don't think a lot of you understand - a player who "could" be a lot of things, but isn't really any of them? That's bad.

The other thing is a lot of you keep moving the target. You talk about what a great player he IS, and when someone points out the obvious you fall back on "He's still young" and get all butthurt. He is what he is today, regardless of what he may develop into. You can't really put your finger on what role/position he plays right now, which ought to tell you something about how he will be used in the playoffs. If you want to talk about his potential, let's talk about his potential. If you want to talk about right now, talk about that. But when you do both at the same time, it just sounds like a lovesick fan making excuses.

Personally, I'm impressed by the way he fights on the inside, and comes up with rebounds and loose balls. I think he needs to hit the weight room, and commit to being a forward. The guard positions in the NBA just require more quickness and explosiveness than he has. (I can't count the number of exceptionally tall guards I've thought were going to change the game, but haven't.) I think he'll have a lot more success bumping bigger guys than trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker ones - if he gets stronger.

But whatever happens, he needs to stake a claim to a position and be the best he can be at it. He's not going to be one of the exceptional combo players in the league. He's smart, and he has skills, but he doesn't have the physical attributes for that.

[GSH]

I said nothing about playoff minutes but if it requires someone to trash a player to make his argument, then obviously I don't understand that line of reasoning.

If you think he is not getting major playoff minutes, I agree. If you think he is not getting any playoff minutes, I disagree.


I'm going to try to say this in a nice way. It's good to read the discussion you're jumping into. Most of the discussion on the last several pages had to do with Anderson's possible minutes/matchups in the upcoming playoffs.

And pointing out limitations in a guy's current skill set isn't "trashing" him. I don't know what to tell you - it just isn't. It's people saying, "I don't think Pop goes to him a lot in the playoffs, and here's why." If he's your boy, by all means step up and defend him. But a lot of people here have watched the Spurs for a lot of years, and we've seen how Pop shortens rotations drastically, and how he values experience and consistency over youth and exuberance. Which one of those descriptions do you think best fits KA?

[SAGirl]

Kyle will see some PT past the first round. I don't understand the attacks on SAgirl. Kyle has had his ups and downs but has shown improvement. I doubt we see Kyle against the Warriors, but if we play the Thunder I think he gets meaningful pt, not in crunch time.
I don't understand it either but I have been more vocal in his favor than most, which makes ppl think I am blind or something and makes me a target I guess. I don't think he's flawless, but I like him as a player and specially I like what he brings to our team and I love the fact that he's so young and is being developed by Pop hands on. Only good players come out from Pop's personal dedicated involvement this early in their careers. POP has super high standards that players this young generally he doesn't get to coach. That we draft lower in the draft also means we rarely, very rarely have guys this young either, and the ones that have stuck with Pop have turned into a rotation player at least. Kawhi's and Cojo were the mist recent. And though Cojo didn't look like much fir a good 3 years, he's now a rotation player in a good playoff team and he's playing more minutes than he was in the Spurs. Kyle IMO has more potential than CoJo, which makes his ceiling to at least a quality rotation player in a good playoff team that I hope we continue to be after the big 2 retire.

It's not like I have stated he's the perfect player either, but he's very unique and his passing talent while a bit redundant in this current Spurs team will be extremely valuable when we lose Manu and Tim, both terrific passers and by that point Kyle will be 23 or 24, and had a few years to develop with the older crew and learn. Maybe even playoff experience by then. It just bodes well for us if he develops nicely. I would expect real fans of the team to be more excited about the prospect but some ppl can't see it, and that is fine, but why they feel the need to sour even good performances from him has to be some cry for attention or something weirder.

[SAGirl]

I'm going to try to say this in a nice way. It's good to read the discussion you're jumping into. Most of the discussion on the last several pages had to do with Anderson's possible minutes/matchups in the upcoming playoffs.

And pointing out limitations in a guy's current skill set isn't "trashing" him. I don't know what to tell you - it just isn't. It's people saying, "I don't think Pop goes to him a lot in the playoffs, and here's why." If he's your boy, by all means step up and defend him. But a lot of people here have watched the Spurs for a lot of years, and we've seen how Pop shortens rotations drastically, and how he values experience and consistency over youth and exuberance. Which one of those descriptions do you think best fits KA?
I can't speak fir others, but most have not been as reasonable as you and Nono. There is a good bit of trolling around and that's part if the nature of the forum. Just wanted to let you know that when I talk about that in general I don't consider you to be a part if it, although you clearly don't like him, or like Nono said you think he needs more time.

After the 3 known wings though. We have no one else. Neither Martin, nor Simmons has looked better. Martin is supposed to bring offense and he hasn't. He also likes yo take very bad shots. Simmons is probably less developed than Kyle. He's got super athleticism a valuable NBA skill for a team so old an unathlertic in general, but for him I really have to say, maybe next season. Although I don't mind Pop continuing to develop him bc who knows. Kyle is probably your best guy in foul trouble situations or to buy someone a breather. We shall see, but he seems to me to have earned a chance. As I said long ago, what he does with that chance is another story. That is pure speculation.

[AFMadison]

I don't understand it either but I have been more vocal in his favor than most, which makes ppl think I am blind or something and makes me a target I guess. I don't think he's flawless, but I like him as a player and specially I like what he brings to our team and I love the fact that he's so young and is being developed by Pop hands on. Only good players come out from Pop's personal dedicated involvement this early in their careers. POP has super high standards that players this young generally he doesn't get to coach. That we draft lower in the draft also means we rarely, very rarely have guys this young either, and the ones that have stuck with Pop have turned into a rotation player at least. Kawhi's and Cojo were the mist recent. And though Cojo didn't look like much fir a good 3 years, he's now a rotation player in a good playoff team and he's playing more minutes than he was in the Spurs. Kyle IMO has more potential than CoJo, which makes his ceiling to at least a quality rotation player in a good playoff team that I hope we continue to be after the big 2 retire.

It's not like I have stated he's the perfect player either, but he's very unique and his passing talent while a bit redundant in this current Spurs team will be extremely valuable when we lose Manu and Tim, both terrific passers and by that point Kyle will be 23 or 24, and had a few years to develop with the older crew and learn. Maybe even playoff experience by then. It just bodes well for us if he develops nicely. I would expect real fans of the team to be more excited about the prospect but some ppl can't see it, and that is fine, but why they feel the need to sour even good performances from him has to be some cry for attention or something weirder.
Agreed. I think post Duncan/Manu. Kyle will be essential to the team.

[SAGirl]

I said there were exceptions - but not many. Giannis has freakish athleticism, and Draymond has an unusual combination of athleticism and strength. (I think Green has been juicing, but that's another story.) It takes exceptional physical ability and skills to be a really successful combo player. It requires things that can't be taught. Anderson isn't on that level, and he isn't ever going to be on that level. That's not a knock on him as a player, it's just reality. I don't think a lot of you understand - a player who "could" be a lot of things, but isn't really any of them? That's bad.

The other thing is a lot of you keep moving the target. You talk about what a great player he IS, and when someone points out the obvious you fall back on "He's still young" and get all butthurt. He is what he is today, regardless of what he may develop into. You can't really put your finger on what role/position he plays right now, which ought to tell you something about how he will be used in the playoffs. If you want to talk about his potential, let's talk about his potential. If you want to talk about right now, talk about that. But when you do both at the same time, it just sounds like a lovesick fan making excuses.

Personally, I'm impressed by the way he fights on the inside, and comes up with rebounds and loose balls. I think he needs to hit the weight room, and commit to being a forward. The guard positions in the NBA just require more quickness and explosiveness than he has. (I can't count the number of exceptionally tall guards I've thought were going to change the game, but haven't.) I think he'll have a lot more success bumping bigger guys than trying to stay in front of smaller, quicker ones - if he gets stronger.

But whatever happens, he needs to stake a claim to a position and be the best he can be at it. He's not going to be one of the exceptional combo players in the league. He's smart, and he has skills, but he doesn't have the physical attributes for that.
You have to tell that to Pop not me. By all means Pop is the one who has him playing all these positions and we can all look at what they (Pop and him) are doing and speculate, but by all means Pop has something in mind for him that will not come into fruition now bc if it is a 4, he cannot play that full time right now. He can handle some matches for you. He looks stronger than he was last season and his muscle gain is normal over time. But I cannot say anything about that end. The trainers should know what is feasible for a guy like him, with a long, lanky body frame. Then Pop has played him anything from a 1-3 in real games. You can speculate on your own about that too. It's possible what he can be or will be cannot be unleashed right now bc there are others in the roster taking his ideal spot, but he's not yet fully developed as a player so it is for the best. That is what I mean when I say he's shoehorned into a role that is what we need from him right now but it's not where you will get the best from him. He really shines making plays for others and he's only bound to get better in that area too as he understands the NBA timing, anticipation, and his teammates tendencies etc.

Ideally you'd want him to play more with the ball like he did when Manu was out. He had opportunities to make plays for others and he did. Off the ball play, is an area of weakness that he still needs to develop. He's not a guy used to having others make plays for him. Learning to let go a little bit of the tendency to pass to be chucking shots a little when he's spotting up. It's not in his nature. If you hesitate even a little on your shot your window to shoot is gone in the NBA. He's not automatic to want to shoot when he's open and he wasn't previously a shooter either. It requires a bit of reprogramming.

It goes beyond spotting up. How and when to cut. He's hesitant on cuts. I think he doesn't want to clog the paint and yet at the same time, if you don't cut with a purpose there is no point to the cut. There are many things like that about him playing off the ball. It's probably a necessary step that he has to learn, but those things were not part of his game. In reality he shines for you when he's the one finding cutters, not the other way around. That is what I mean when you don't play someone at his best spot or to his best best attributes as a player.

[Brazil]

but also


There's no reason at all to trust Anderson over Martin right now. None at all.

[Brazil]

Only in Spurs talk a young roleplayer has a good game and instead of being inspired since we have so few good young prospects it inspires a hate wagon.! :lol


:lol hate... like I hate Kyle Anderson :rolleyes

Only in Spurs talk a young role player triggers that much of biased and homerism tbh... player fans :rolleyes

The rest of your post is also :rolleyes... The team needed immediately George skill set and the team did not want to win a ring so let him develop in his own time... oh boy

[Chinook]

but also

Yes. Anderson has better chemistry with his teammates and is a better all-around player. Literally the only thing Martin has going for him is age. It's not close to anyone who's looking at this objectively.

[Brazil]

I'm going to try to say this in a nice way. It's good to read the discussion you're jumping into. Most of the discussion on the last several pages had to do with Anderson's possible minutes/matchups in the upcoming playoffs.

And pointing out limitations in a guy's current skill set isn't "trashing" him. I don't know what to tell you - it just isn't. It's people saying, "I don't think Pop goes to him a lot in the playoffs, and here's why." If he's your boy, by all means step up and defend him. But a lot of people here have watched the Spurs for a lot of years, and we've seen how Pop shortens rotations drastically, and how he values experience and consistency over youth and exuberance. Which one of those descriptions do you think best fits KA?

yup that's pretty much indeed the nice way to say it

[Brazil]

Yes. Anderson is a better all-around player.

Your opinion not a fact


Literally the only thing Martin has going for him is age.

Again opinion


It's not close to anyone who's looking at this objectively.

Because now you are the one to draw the line regarding what is objective or not.

So let me give me objectivity... KA sucks... If you disagree it is because you are not objective

[Chinook]

I'm going to try to say this in a nice way. It's good to read the discussion you're jumping into. Most of the discussion on the last several pages had to do with Anderson's possible minutes/matchups in the upcoming playoffs.

And pointing out limitations in a guy's current skill set isn't "trashing" him. I don't know what to tell you - it just isn't. It's people saying, "I don't think Pop goes to him a lot in the playoffs, and here's why." If he's your boy, by all means step up and defend him. But a lot of people here have watched the Spurs for a lot of years, and we've seen how Pop shortens rotations drastically, and how he values experience and consistency over youth and exuberance. Which one of those descriptions do you think best fits KA?

I think people are overstating the level to which Pop shortens his rotation and especially the level to which he can be expected to do it this time. Pop doesn't go into a series expecting to only play eight or nine guys. He'll only do that if match-ups dictate it. The Spurs may face a lot of small-ball coming up, and while I think they'd like to stay big, they'll probably end up matching them. Anderson makes sense there, especially with Butler off the team. And Pop will only play Kawhi a ton of minutes if he needs to. So Anderson or someone else will get minutes.

People looking at history forget that Pop was able to shorten his rotation because he has three HoFers in their primes or at least close to it. Now, Manu and Duncan are just too old to play enough minutes to fill the cracks. Like Kawhi will get 38 minutes, Green will get 32. The combined 70 minutes seems reasonable if not on the high side. Manu isn't playing 26 mpg at his age. There's a definite trend of diminishing returns with him, and he shouldn't be counted on to have many good games at that work load. And the easy solution may seem to be to play Mills at the two, but 1, Parker shouldn't be overplayed either and 2, that small back court has major defensive issues, especially considering that OKC and GS don't play two small guards together.

So Anderson should get a chance to get minutes. There will be a spot there that'll go between him, Martin and Miller. West will get some minutes at the five, but his minutes at the four are also up for conversation considering small-ball. Between Kyle and the Minny buyouts, he has the edge. He's better, more versatile and has more experience in the system. Could he flub it up? Yes. But there's really no indication that he's not the leading candidate right now. Pop would be playing Martin and Miller a lot more if they were ahead of Anderson, as they need the experience.

[Chinook]

Your opinion not a fact

You were so keen to use Martin's stats before, but now that they are souring with a larger sample size, you're content to say they're inconclusive. Again, you seem to admit Anderson has better chemistry with his teammates, so even if that's the only reason, it's one reason why Anderson is ahead of Martin, compared to no evidence at all from the Kevin camp.


Because now you are the one to draw the line regarding what is objective or not.

I'm looking at the objective evidence of their playing time and their performance. You guys are clinging to what you feel Pop's been known to do, with most of that being misrepresented.

[Brazil]

You were so keen to use Martin's stats before, but now that they are souring with a larger sample size, you're content to say they're inconclusive. Again, you seem to admit Anderson has better chemistry with his teammates, so even if that's the only reason, it's one reason why Anderson is ahead of Martin, compared to no evidence at all from the Kevin camp.

:rolleyes dude... I was yes keen to say that Twolves stats were totally irrelevant to project K Martin as a Spurs palyer, you were the one using past stats to back up the claim that it will be a bust.

Then I used stats to push your shit a little about in particular playing time that you assumed would be only 3 per game during garbage time. Then I said he had 3 terrible games, what else do you want me to say ? Now contrary to you I consider 10 games is a small sample to definitely writte off a player totally new to Spurs system.

:lol of course I admit KA has better chemistry... smh

Chemistry is not a reason enough to say he is ahead of Martin... You play that card I go with Experience matters, Martin has 100 times more than KA, this criteria is more important than Chemistry and btw this is the only way objective way to see it... easy right ?

Guess what, that's my opinion, this opinion is not less objective than yours




I'm looking at the objective evidence of their playing time and their performance. You guys are clinging to what you feel Pop's been known to do, with most of that being misrepresented.

small size

I am pretty sure Pop does not know yet what he has with Martin so I am pretty sure also he has no idea how he will distribute minutes for end of bench rotation players like KA or Martin. Now my opinion is KA won't see that much of PT during these POs

[Chinook]

:rolleyes dude... I was yes keen to say that Twolves stats were totally irrelevant to project K Martin as a Spurs palyer, you were the one using past stats to back up the claim that it will be a bust.

We aren't going to rehash this. I said too many times that my reasons for not wanting Martin to be a rotation player went far beyond his stats I did say that being a Spur wasn't going to make him more efficient, and while I agree nothing is definitive yet, that's being born out. As of yet, you have to hope the future bears your point out, because right now you don't have a leg to stand on.


Then I used stats to push your shit a little about in particular playing time that you assumed would be only 3 per game during garbage time.

I never said, he'd play three per game. I did say he'd pretty much just play garbage time and injury time. And that's made up almost 80 percent of his minutes so far. And this is in the regular season after the Spurs are locked into their playoff spot.


Now contrary to you I consider 10 games is a small sample to definitely writte off a player totally new to Spurs system.

Why do you keep lying about this over and over again?


Chemistry is not a reason enough to say he is ahead of Martin... You play that card I go with Experience matters, Martin has 100 times more than KA, this criteria is more important than Chemistry and btw this is the only way objective way to see it... easy right ?

Not really. Experience doesn't matter if you don't know the plays and your teammates. This isn't like Pop going with Jack over Green in 2012 (which was also a mistake, but whatever). Martin's pretty much played no minutes with the main guys. Anderson's been ahead of him in the rotation every game. That might now be a reason why Kyle SHOULD be ahead of Kevin, but it is damn sure evidence that he IS currently ahead of him.


Guess what, that's my opinion, this opinion is not less objective than yours

Yes, it is, because it's based on speculation and not evidence.


I am pretty sure Pop does not know yet what he has with Martin so I am pretty sure also he has no idea how he will distribute minutes for end of bench rotation players like KA or Martin.

Anderson isn't not an end-of-bench player. He's usually the ninth man in the game. Simmons is an end-of-bench guy. Martin is between them.


Now my opinion is KA won't see that much of PT during these POs

"That much" is subjective as hell. I don't think anyone feels he's getting like 15 mpg in every series. But I do think he'll be the guy ahead of Martin to get the scrap minutes unless he falls apart. Sometimes, that might be six minutes. Sometimes, it might be 20. I've resisted defining rotational roles by minutes for that reason.

[Brazil]

We aren't going to rehash this. I said too many times that my reasons for not wanting Martin to be a rotation player went far beyond his stats I did say that being a Spur wasn't going to make him more efficient, and while I agree nothing is definitive yet, that's being born out. As of yet, you have to hope the future bears your point out, because right now you don't have a leg to stand on.

you backed up your point using Twolves stats, that's a fact. My legs are totally fine and based on: Twolves stats are irrelevant, he has been hired to shoot the 3s and hand the ball, he does not need the ball in his hand and can play off the ball and contribute, he is serviceable on catch and shoot situation, for this price he is a fine signing and has not been hired to play only garbage time... so far there is nothing that breaks my legs...sorry




I never said, he'd play three per game. I did say he'd pretty much just play garbage time and injury time. And that's made up almost 80 percent of his minutes so far. And this is in the regular season after the Spurs are locked into their playoff spot.

I'm pretty sure you gave some mpg in previous threads. I gave some between 10 and 15 and my legs are again just fine.




Why do you keep lying about this over and over again?

smh... where did I keep lying ? over and over about what ?



Not really. Experience doesn't matter if you don't know the plays and your teammates. This isn't like Pop going with Jack over Green in 2012 (which was also a mistake, but whatever). Martin's pretty much played no minutes with the main guys. Anderson's been ahead of him in the rotation every game. That might now be a reason why Kyle SHOULD be ahead of Kevin, but it is damn sure evidence that he IS currently ahead of him.

Opinion again, mine is that experience matters and he has time to know the plays and teammates before POs start. Why this is not like Jack ? Jack knew the big 3 from 10 years ago... not that a big deal of difference

Ahead of him for almost same crap results, difference being one played 10 games the other 100.




Yes, it is, because it's based on speculation and not evidence.

oh because your opinion is based on evidence ? :lol what evidences ? none



Anderson isn't not an end-of-bench player. He's usually the ninth man in the game. Simmons is an end-of-bench guy. Martin is between them.

question of definition I guess... what this changes to my point ? You think Pop has in mind the amount of minutes he will play KA knowing that against some match ups KA is useless ? I don't.



"That much" is subjective as hell. I don't think anyone feels he's getting like 15 mpg in every series. But I do think he'll be the guy ahead of Martin to get the scrap minutes unless he falls apart. Sometimes, that might be six minutes. Sometimes, it might be 20. I've resisted defining rotational roles by minutes for that reason.

This is why I wrote my opinion, opinions are subjectives, difference between you and me is that I don't try to travesty an opinion into objectivity and facts.

You do think (and I respect your opinion) he will be ahead, I don't or better I doubt it.

[Chinook]

you backed up your point using Twolves stats, that's a fact. My legs are totally fine and based on: Twolves stats are irrelevant, he has been hired to shoot the 3s and hand the ball, he does not need the ball in his hand and can play off the ball and contribute, he is serviceable on catch and shoot situation, for this price he is a fine signing and has not been hired to play only garbage time... so far there is nothing that breaks my legs...sorry

There's a lot in this that doesn't make sense.


, he has been hired to shoot the 3s and hand the ball, he does not need the ball in his hand and can play off the ball and contribute

Is he supposed to have the ball in his hands or not?


he does not need the ball in his hand and can play off the ball and contribute, he is serviceable on catch and shoot situation

Martin's rate of unassisted shots is right at his career average (just under 50 percent). He is taking the fewest three-point attempts per minute of any Spurs' floor-spacer (he's ahead of Parker and Anderson for guys who even take threes at all). It's true that his usage rate has dropped, but his efficiency has dropped right long with it (it's the worst one the team). The stats aren't 100-percent definitive (though they probably have a 90-percent confidence interval), but they aren't showing that Martin has been good in his role.


has not been hired to play only garbage time

The only wing he's ahead of currently is Simmons. He's only getting non-garbage-time minutes because of injuries.


so far there is nothing that breaks my legs

That you have no support for you points knocks the legs out from your argument.


I'm pretty sure you gave some mpg in previous threads. I gave some between 10 and 15 and my legs are again just fine.

You did say that. I didn't argue against that in the regular season. I didn't argue against Harlem's assertion that he should get those minutes in the playoffs.


smh... where did I keep lying ? over and over about what ?

It's in the part I quoted. I have never said the 10 games are definitive. However, I don't have to say that. You have the burden of proof, so when the numbers don't support you, it's an issue.


question of definition I guess... what this changes to my point ? You think Pop has in mind the amount of minutes he will play KA knowing that against some match ups KA is useless ?

Who is Anderson useless against? Who is Martin more useful against?


This is why I wrote my opinion, opinions are subjectives, difference between you and me is that I don't try to travesty an opinion into objectivity and facts.

Not really. Opinions need support. You're claiming Pop is going to change his rotation. You need evidence to assert that. I said he isn't, and I gave plenty of evidence to show that. Pop continuing to play Anderson first and for more minutes implies Kyle is ahead in the rotation. Martin being ineffective so far implies that's not moving toward a change. Nothing has to be statistically significant for my point to be supported.

[Brazil]

^ you are being obtuse...

you try to sell to me your shit speaking of support and evidence you don't have, I don't see the point of all of this

let us proceed

[Chinook]

^ you are being obtuse...

you try to sell to me your shit speaking of support and evidence you don't have, I don't see the point of all of this

let us proceed

The point is that Martin's sample size is actually getting large enough to be significant. And as it moves to that, it's shaping up like he's not a good player. More importantly, it's showing that he's not playing the role that you keep saying he's playing. That's even more obviously from watching him barely stand beyond the arc during plays.

There is no evidence to suggest Martin is going to overtake Anderson in the rotation. Kyle's minutes have gone up since Martin has signed, and he has remained ahead of him. That's really all that matters, because I am just asserting that there's no reason to believe it's going to change. You have to support your point, since you have the burden of proof. You've failed to do that, and saying that you don't like my evidence doesn't actually mean your point is stronger.

[Blake]

Now, Manu and Duncan are just too old to play enough minutes to fill the cracks.

No evidence of that being true.

Duncan had a 40+minute playoff game vs the Clippers last year.

Kawhi didn't, iirc.

[RD2191]

Chinook evolving into ChumpDumper right before our very eyes.

[Chinook]

Chinook evolving into ChumpDumper right before our very eyes.

You're going blue, Rob?

[Chinook]

No evidence of that being true.

Duncan had a 40+minute playoff game vs the Clippers last year.

Kawhi didn't, iirc.

Game Six.

And Manu only played 19 mpg last playoffs.

[Brazil]

you never give up on anything don't you... let's go again


The point is that Martin's sample size is actually getting large enough to be significant.

I disagree


And as it moves to that, it's shaping up like he's not a good player. More importantly, it's showing that he's not playing the role that you keep saying he's playing. That's even more obviously from watching him barely stand beyond the arc during plays.

For the contract and role he gets, he has the tool to be a good player. Last 4 games yes he struggled and played terrible, I have already acknowledged that


There is no evidence to suggest Martin is going to overtake Anderson in the rotation. Kyle's minutes have gone up since Martin has signed, and he has remained ahead of him. That's really all that matters, because I am just asserting that there's no reason to believe it's going to change. You have to support your point, since you have the burden of proof. You've failed to do that, and saying that you don't like my evidence doesn't actually mean your point is stronger.

There is no evidence he won't and I'm not even sure point is Martin PT vs. KA PT... last night both played 15 mn. Mart is playing significant minutes at SG anyway.

Spare me with burden of the proof this is not a scientific or religion debate.. we are talking about players contributing or not on a NBA team during POs, we are not debating existence of god.

[Brazil]

Chinook evolving into ChumpDumper right before our very eyes.

:lol I mean wtf

Me: My opinion is
Chinook: Mine is better
Me: why
Chinook: evidence
Me: what evidence
Chinook: none but you have burden of the proof
Me: wtf...

[100%duncan]

He's been "shoehorned into a role"? What, exactly, is his role? You're the one who called him a stretch-4, just a day or two before. Actually, you've called him a wing, a stretch-4, and a point-forward. He's everything but a C, according to you. Yeah, that's a pretty amazing player to have.

When the resident bandwagon can't put her finger on exactly what he is, it's because he hasn't distinguished himself at any of those things. In the playoffs, he'll be facing guys who HAVE distinguished themselves at their positions. And that's why so few tweeners are factors on good teams. I've more than given Anderson the benefit of a doubt, but damned if I'm buying into the BS that he's some multi-faceted Diaw 2.0. He's a damn tweener. When he's a point, people crow because he's a TALL point, not because he's a really good point. When he's a big, people crow because he's a big who can put the ball on the floor, not because he's a really good big. That's pretty much the definition of tweener.

I notice you didn't comment on the fact that he's only made 2 3-pointers in a game twice. So the "stretch" is sort of a stretch. Don't blame me for noticing.


We have a winner!

[Chinook]

I disagree

Statistical significance isn't a matter of opinion.


For the contract and role he gets, he has the tool to be a good player. Last 4 games yes he struggled and played terrible, I have already acknowledged that

And that's fine. But for a bigger role like you're suggesting he could/should get, it's not okay.


There is no evidence he won't

And that doesn't matter. When you have the burden a proof, it's not enough to assert you haven't been proven wrong.


Spare me with burden of the proof this is not a scientific or religion debate.. we are talking about players contributing or not on a NBA team during POs, we are not debating existence of god.

Burden of proof is an element to any discussion. This conversation is no more or less important than arguing about god. We aren't talking about something we can control, so we're just shooting the shit. But when you are suggesting something will happen and can't support that, you're just pissing in wind. It's not unreasonable at all to expect you to defend your point.

Now that doesn't mean you can't think what you want. And it doesn't mean you won't end up being right. But as of right now, you don't have any support.


I'm not even sure point is Martin PT vs. KA PT... last night both played 15 mn. Mart is playing significant minutes at SG anyway.

The point is only that to show that Pop isn't moving Martin into the rotation. Last night was the closest he's come to giving Martin an audition, and Kevin didn't get it done. I don't know who Pop wants to play more, but it doesn't seem like he's giving Martin the nod based on experience. He moved Diaw right into the starting lineup after he signed. So it's not like he normally puts buyout candidates on the deep bench.

[Chinook]

:lol I mean wtf

Me: My opinion is
Chinook: Mine is better
Me: why
Chinook: evidence
Me: what evidence
Chinook: none but you have burden of the proof
Me: wtf...

Actually, you responded to me (out of the blue). So you were the one asserting your opinion was better. When you make a claim, you have to back it up. You seem to just continuously throw out your opinion on this without actually evolving it. The closest you've come is saying that Martin's stats on both teams don't matter. That's not true and doesn't even address most of what I was saying. But even if it was, your points don't get stronger.

[Brazil]

Statistical significance isn't a matter of opinion.

oh yes it is. proof is you consider than 10 games, 100 mn is statiscally significant, I don't. prove me wrong.



And that's fine. But for a bigger role like you're suggesting he could/should get, it's not okay.

what bigger role am I suggesting ? I say from the very beginning 10-15 mpg and not just garbage time when team is up 30.




And that doesn't matter. When you have the burden a proof, it's not enough to assert you haven't been proven wrong.



Burden of proof is an element to any discussion. This conversation is no more or less important than arguing about god. We aren't talking about something we can control, so we're just shooting the shit. But when you are suggesting something will happen and can't support that, you're just pissing in wind. It's not unreasonable at all to expect you to defend your point.

Now that doesn't mean you can't think what you want. And it doesn't mean you won't end up being right. But as of right now, you don't have any support.

this conversation is way less important than speaking god.

I in fact don't even understand what you expect with your burden of proof, we are talking projections, future based on what we think we know about bb. I say basically you don't hire a player like K Mart to play garbage minutes like if he was a 30rd draft pick in his rookie year. I also say he has the tool to be a good fit for a 10-15 mpg role. What the fuck of proof you need ?




The point is only that to show that Pop isn't moving Martin into the rotation. Last night was the closest he's come to giving Martin an audition, and Kevin didn't get it done. I don't know who Pop wants to play more, but it doesn't seem like he's giving Martin the nod based on experience. He moved Diaw right into the starting lineup after he signed. So it's not like he normally puts buyout candidates on the deep bench.

:lol like last night KA passed successfully his audition or the rest of his season dude has a per of 12, shoot almost as bad as Kobe from 3... his lack of lateral quickness is lethal, he is hesitant, disrupt offense by passing up open 3s on the regular.

At this point you play him in POs because you have no other option... I do fucking hope KMart can get his shit together to not be obliged to rely on KA in POs tbh... After 10 games I consider we don't know yet what we will have, after 100 games and 1,400 mn with the Spurs we pretty much know what we have with KA and what we have stinks.

[Brazil]

Actually, you responded to me (out of the blue). So you were the one asserting your opinion was better. When you make a claim, you have to back it up. You seem to just continuously throw out your opinion on this without actually evolving it. The closest you've come is saying that Martin's stats on both teams don't matter. That's not true and doesn't even address most of what I was saying. But even if it was, your points don't get stronger.

You are being obtuse a lot tbh

I never claimed my opinion is better, I said this is my opinion and she is at valid as yours that's a bit different than saying mine is better because yours is not supported by whatever proof and mine was fist so I don't need to prove anything. I have developped this opinion over and over with you taking stats, drawing comparaison with other players on this thread and on other threads, you just choose to not read.

I said Twolves stat don't matter because the roles will be totally different and both teams systems are totally different and 10 games is small size sample... this is quite different than "Martin's stats on both teams don't matter"

[spursistan]

Martin hasn't shown anything thus far for him to leapfrog Kyle in rotation..In fact, he has made cutting Butler look like mistake considering the latter body of work for 60+ games..I'm not sure he can make a late push for a niche role at this point with 5 games left..His dismal shooting has met a consistent trend of previous seasons notwithstanding the system he evolves in...

[Chinook]

you consider than 10 games, 100 mn is statiscally significant

You need to stop lying about this. That's all it can be described as at this point. I've said in almost every response to you in this thread that it's not statistically significant yet. I really have. At this point, you're not even reading what I've said. However, just because it's statistically significant doesn't mean it doesn't have informative value. Martin has been bad so far. We can all admit that, even if the stats wouldn't pass with a 99-percent confidence interval. That doesn't mean he won't end up being better.


what bigger role am I suggesting ? I say from the very beginning 10-15 mpg

That's a bigger role than he is currently slated to get. When the team is healthy, Martin is getting very few non garbage-time minutes. This is why mpg is a horrible way to measure a role, especially for the Spurs, since they rest guys so often and have a lot of blowouts.


this conversation is way less important than speaking god.

It's not any more important. We don't affect the outcome, so we're just talking. If we were mods trying to talk about who to ban, then that's a more important conversation.


I say basically you don't hire a player like K Mart to play garbage minutes like if he was a 30rd draft pick in his rookie year. I also say he has the tool to be a good fit for a 10-15 mpg role. What the fuck of proof you need ?

That is just your opinion and is something I haven't really attacked. I don't think Pop promised him anything, but whatever. It's when you try to extend that opinion into a constructive and rebuttal that I take issue. A constructive needs support. You can't just turtle back into "it's just my opinion." We can totally agree to disagree on what we think Martin's role will be, and I think we already have. But as long as you make assertions, they're open for discussion.


like last night KA passed successfully his audition or the rest of his season dude has a per of 12, shoot almost as bad as Kobe from 3... his lack of lateral quickness is lethal, he is hesitant, disrupt offense by passing up open 3s on the regular.[/QUOTE]

Martin's been hurting the offense nearly as much by not going to the corner and getting run off the line. He's not getting the whistle either, so he'd just throwing up mess after every shot. Anderson is at least a plus on defense.

[QUOTE]At this point you play him in POs because you have no other option... I do fucking hope KMart can get his shit together to not be obliged to rely on KA in POs tbh...

I think Anderson will get the first crack at it. If he fails, it'll go to Martin or Miller. I don't think him having an average game for his standards would be considered a failure, though. But yes, I hope Martin gets his shit together too.


After 10 games I consider we don't know yet what we will have

He's gotten more chances than most 10-day guys do on two tries. Is it definitive, no. But it's good enough to know he's currently playing poorly.


after 100 games and 1,400 mn with the Spurs we pretty much know what we have with KA and what we have stinks.

So that's why SAG thinks you guys are hating. Anderson hasn't stunk by most standards, especially for a bench player. A guy with the lowest USG% on the team is going to struggle with PER. They are very closely linked. His defensive stats are great. When he's on, his offense is really good, too. We can keep pretending like he's a bad player, but he really isn't. He's just clearly the fourth-best wing right now. Clearly in both ways.

[Chinook]

I never claimed my opinion is better, I said this is my opinion and she is at valid as yours that's a bit different than saying mine is better because yours is not supported by whatever proof and mine was fist so I don't need to prove anything. I have developped this opinion over and over with you taking stats, drawing comparaison with other players on this thread and on other threads, you just choose to not read.

All right, let's both through this. I gave the initial opinion that Martin sucks, using a few different arguments to extend that. You picked one to latch onto (stats) and asserted continuously why Martin's Minny stats didn't matter, because he'd be better in a spot-up role with the Spurs. So now, he's been awful with the Spurs and hasn't even been a spot-up player. The only reason why you haven't admitted you were wrong is because you are clinging to the idea that these stats aren't statistically significant, which in your mind means they can be completely ignored. That's not true.

But that's separate from the conversation about the fourth-wing spot. My argument was that it's Anderson's to lose because he's been playing ahead of Martin and has been playing better. Your argument is that Pop didn't bring Martin in to sit on the bench. My counter was essentially, "You can think that all you want, but as long as Anderson keeps playing over Martin, you're just clinging to a subjective view." Then you tried to counter by saying there's no evidence that Anderson has been better than Martin, which is VERY false, but whatever. My point was that since I'm just asserting that nothing is going to change, you have the burden of proof. Until you show why they're going to or at least should flip, you're opinion is unsupported by any evidence.


I said Twolves stat don't matter because the roles will be totally different and both teams systems are totally different and 10 games is small size sample... this is quite different than "Martin's stats on both teams don't matter"

That is saying both don't matter, but for different reasons. but the reality is that he's pretty much been the same player at both places. Only difference here is that he's deferring more when better players are out there and pressing more when they aren't. But so far, it seems with both sets agree with each other.

[cutewizard]

i have a gut feeling that Kyle Anderson is gonna be big for us in the playoffs THIS YEAR......

i dont know who basta i know it...............

[SAGirl]

Your opinion not a fact



Again opinion



Because now you are the one to draw the line regarding what is objective or not.

So let me give me objectivity... KA sucks... If you disagree it is because you are not objective
He has played 70 games for this team averaging 15 minutes. This is a stacked veteran team and he is a kid in comparison. Has started 9 games, every game Kawhi has missed and some that Tim missed. Lol He's helped us to the amazing record we have in several games we were understaffed. I think you are the biased player fan (Tony fan? Is Tony inspiring this hate toward young teammates?). You try to avoid the tag of hater but you are. No scrub 22 yr old would have played for Pop that many minutes and games. Brazil=Kyle hater.

[SAGirl]

i have a gut feeling that Kyle Anderson is gonna be big for us in the playoffs THIS YEAR......

i dont know who basta i know it...............
:tu
I foresee a few hate threads directed at Pop when he starts logging playoff minutes for us. I will be laughing at home. :lol and giving you a cyber-high-five!

[Blake]

:tu
I foresee a few hate threads directed at Pop when he starts logging playoff minutes for us. I will be laughing at home. :lol and giving you a cyber-high-five!

:lol you remind me of this one fan that used to defend Rasho to the death back when Spurs Report was bustling.

You could simply say "Nazr>Rasho" and a 5 paragraph rant would ensue. It was hilarious. :lol

[dabom]

^ you are being obtuse...

you try to sell to me your shit speaking of support and evidence you don't have, I don't see the point of all of this

let us proceed

:wow

[dabom]

You are being obtuse a lot tbh

I never claimed my opinion is better, I said this is my opinion and she is at valid as yours that's a bit different than saying mine is better because yours is not supported by whatever proof and mine was fist so I don't need to prove anything. I have developped this opinion over and over with you taking stats, drawing comparaison with other players on this thread and on other threads, you just choose to not read.

I said Twolves stat don't matter because the roles will be totally different and both teams systems are totally different and 10 games is small size sample... this is quite different than "Martin's stats on both teams don't matter"



:hat

[dabom]

Everyone can clearly see KA is a sack of shit right? If you can't, your a dumbass. Negative RPM. :lmao

[Brazil]

You need to stop lying about this. That's all it can be described as at this point. I've said in almost every response to you in this thread that it's not statistically significant yet. I really have. At this point, you're not even reading what I've said. However, just because it's statistically significant doesn't mean it doesn't have informative value. Martin has been bad so far. We can all admit that, even if the stats wouldn't pass with a 99-percent confidence interval. That doesn't mean he won't end up being better.[/QUOTE]

wtf dude... you wrote: "The point is that Martin's sample size is actually getting large enough to be significant."

it is enough or not ? make up your mind... I've better things to do than lying on a sport message board.


That's a bigger role than he is currently slated to get. When the team is healthy, Martin is getting very few non garbage-time minutes. This is why mpg is a horrible way to measure a role, especially for the Spurs, since they rest guys so often and have a lot of blowouts.

oh boy... fine it is a bigger role



It's not any more important. We don't affect the outcome, so we're just talking. If we were mods trying to talk about who to ban, then that's a more important conversation.

of course it 1,000,000 times less important. God belief or lack of is a big part of people's lifes.... nobody gives a shit about PT or role of KA and or KMart except for two old farts like us who like arguing for the sake of it.

[
That is just your opinion and is something I haven't really attacked. I don't think Pop promised him anything, but whatever. It's when you try to extend that opinion into a constructive and rebuttal that I take issue. A constructive needs support. You can't just turtle back into "it's just my opinion." We can totally agree to disagree on what we think Martin's role will be, and I think we already have. But as long as you make assertions, they're open for discussion.

Yes it is and I can perfectly take the turtle back into it is just my opinion. I've explained this opinion 100 times in other threads (You don't hire a vet like Martin playing 30 mpg with big usage to play the rookie role, dude is not that old to be in retirement plan), you also explained why you disagree, that's perfectly fine bro. your arguments did not convince me, I did not convince you. point taken and move on.



Martin's been hurting the offense nearly as much by not going to the corner and getting run off the line. He's not getting the whistle either, so he'd just throwing up mess after every shot. Anderson is at least a plus on defense.

I agree with the bold part and I laugh at the notion of KA being a plus on defense. let's say KA is slightly less bad.


I think Anderson will get the first crack at it. If he fails, it'll go to Martin or Miller. I don't think him having an average game for his standards would be considered a failure, though. But yes, I hope Martin gets his shit together too.

fair enough



He's gotten more chances than most 10-day guys do on two tries. Is it definitive, no. But it's good enough to know he's currently playing poorly.

yep and this is still 100 times less than KA


[QUOTE=Chinook;8504647]So that's why SAG thinks you guys are hating. Anderson hasn't stunk by most standards, especially for a bench player. A guy with the lowest USG% on the team is going to struggle with PER. They are very closely linked. His defensive stats are great. When he's on, his offense is really good, too. We can keep pretending like he's a bad player, but he really isn't. He's just clearly the fourth-best wing right now. Clearly in both ways.

Yeah I'm sorry but I don't hate KA I've said 100 times I wish him the best, he is young can develop blablabla....there is a difference between hating and saying dude has limited potential and suck. Ask O_V I'm saying the same since he has been drafted. For now I do hope we will be healthy enough to not need him at all. I do like your "when he is on his offense is really good"... issue is it is not often the case. I did not check his defensive stats but if this is true it is a proof that a lot of advanced metrics are fucked up... oh and before you overreact, yes this is an opinion

[Brazil]

^not sure what happened with format of my post... not a big deal... not like I'm having the most interesting debate ever anyway

[SAGirl]

Martin hasn't shown anything thus far for him to leapfrog Kyle in rotation..In fact, he has made cutting Butler look like mistake considering the latter body of work for 60+ games..I'm not sure he can make a late push for a niche role at this point with 5 games left..His dismal shooting has met a consistent trend of previous seasons notwithstanding the system he evolves in...
Many of us thought that was a mistake. Chinook was the most vocal about it. I didn't like it either bc I had liked Butler and he had helped us win a few games we were understaffed in, but I didn't even know Martin's game, so I stayed mostly quiet about it. Seeing Martin's production, indeed there were games this season that if we switched roles and played Martin instead of Butler, we don't win.

I can't point to a single one of Martin's games as a Spur that I can say, yes Martin helped us win that game. Not a one. All of Butler, Kyle and even Simmons had a game like that. Hey even Boban had a few early season games he surprised (an early season Minny game at home that Tony/lma/Kawhi played and shot poorly. One of those games the bench rescued the starters, Boban had almost 20 points and caught lobs from Diaw/manu all night). Point is at some point all these guys showed up and made the difference in a game. This thread is actually following up in the header of a terrific game by Kyle when he showed up and helped us get another win. I can't say that from Martin in any game. Rather it seems we win despite him not doing much of anything to help in the effort. I can't envision a guy like that helping us win in the playoffs, I just can't. And as you point out he's almost out of time.

[Brazil]

All right, let's both through this. I gave the initial opinion that Martin sucks, using a few different arguments to extend that. You picked one to latch onto (stats) and asserted continuously why Martin's Minny stats didn't matter, because he'd be better in a spot-up role with the Spurs. So now, he's been awful with the Spurs and hasn't even been a spot-up player. The only reason why you haven't admitted you were wrong is because you are clinging to the idea that these stats aren't statistically significant, which in your mind means they can be completely ignored. That's not true.

:lol I said he had 4 horrible games and yes played worst than KA, where did I ignore that ? I just say it's sample size and this picture can change... or not, I complement saying Anderson picture won't change after 1,400 mn we know what we have.

If I'm wrong I will say I was wrong you were right... something I don't think you are capable of


But that's separate from the conversation about the fourth-wing spot. My argument was that it's Anderson's to lose because he's been playing ahead of Martin and has been playing better. Your argument is that Pop didn't bring Martin in to sit on the bench. My counter was essentially, "You can think that all you want, but as long as Anderson keeps playing over Martin, you're just clinging to a subjective view." Then you tried to counter by saying there's no evidence that Anderson has been better than Martin, which is VERY false, but whatever. My point was that since I'm just asserting that nothing is going to change, you have the burden of proof. Until you show why they're going to or at least should flip, you're opinion is unsupported by any evidence.


:rolleyes ok bro I have the burden of proof...

So I guess it is the same than atheists saying to believers, you have the burden of proof god exists, with no proof I can sit here and relax and be happy with my opinion god does not exist, light a cigar waiting the waitress suck my dick

[SAGirl]

:lol you remind me of this one fan that used to defend Rasho to the death back when Spurs Report was bustling.

You could simply say "Nazr>Rasho" and a 5 paragraph rant would ensue. It was hilarious. :lol
I wasn't around for that. So I do not understand your reference. Inside joke for you though. :lol :toast

[Brazil]

He has played 70 games for this team averaging 15 minutes. This is a stacked veteran team and he is a kid in comparison. Has started 9 games, every game Kawhi has missed and some that Tim missed. Lol He's helped us to the amazing record we have in several games we were understaffed. I think you are the biased player fan (Tony fan? Is Tony inspiring this hate toward young teammates?). You try to avoid the tag of hater but you are. No scrub 22 yr old would have played for Pop that many minutes and games. Brazil=Kyle hater.

:lmao now that's the best... are you really asking "is Tony inspiring this hate toward young teammates ?" :lmao are you going to chase me around with a bible or something ?

George Hill had the same age or so and produces 10 times more than KA.. this is a fact darling.

Pop played tons of minutes of RJ, centerpiece and tell me they are not scrubs ? DeJuan Blair played more minutes in his second year than KA in his first two years :lol so KA ceiling is DeJuan Blair ? DeJuan was 21 btw... and just to make sure I consider DeJuan is not a scrub

[tholdren]

:lol I mean wtf

Me: My opinion is
Chinook: Mine is better
Me: why
Chinook: evidence
Me: what evidence
Chinook: none but you have burden of the proof
Me: wtf...

This is the issue

[100%duncan]

:lmao now that's the best... are you really asking "is Tony inspiring this hate toward young teammates ?" :lmao are you going to chase me around with a bible or something ?

George Hill had the same age or so and produces 10 times more than KA.. this is a fact darling.

Pop played tons of minutes of RJ, centerpiece and tell me they are not scrubs ? DeJuan Blair played more minutes in his second year than KA in his first two years :lol so KA ceiling is DeJuan Blair ? DeJuan was 21 btw... and just to make sure I consider DeJuan is not a scrub

omg that post of sagirl is just golden :lmao

[RD2191]

I told y'all since day 1 that SA girl is a troll and a man.

[Brazil]

omg that post of sagirl is just golden :lmao

:lmao

:cry you are a hater
:cry Tony does not like young teammate
:cry he is just a kid making 1 MUSD per year.. stop hating :cry
:cry it's not easy to be a 22 y/o in a veteran team :cry

[Brazil]

I told y'all since day 1 that SA girl is a troll and a man.

:lol you maybe right tbh... if it is the case he must laugh his ass off

[TheGreatYacht]

I can't find a YouTube video of Fathead's performance last night

2pts (1/3fg), 3reb, 4ast

:lmao

[Chinook]

wtf dude... you wrote: "The point is that Martin's sample size is actually getting large enough to be significant."

it is enough or not ? make up your mind... I've better things to do than lying on a sport message board.

It's not enough to project how good he's going to be. It is enough to say that he's sucked so far. He's not going to get ahead of Anderson by playing like he's been playing.


of course it 1,000,000 times less important. God belief or lack of is a big part of people's lifes.... nobody gives a shit about PT or role of KA and or KMart except for two old farts like us who like arguing for the sake of it.

It doesn't affect the outcome either way.


Yes it is and I can perfectly take the turtle back into it is just my opinion. I've explained this opinion 100 times in other threads (You don't hire a vet like Martin playing 30 mpg with big usage to play the rookie role, dude is not that old to be in retirement plan), you also explained why you disagree, that's perfectly fine bro. your arguments did not convince me, I did not convince you. point taken and move on.

You want to agree to disagree, that's fine. But that's actually where it stops. It's not about trying to change your mind. It is about continuing a discussion so long as you keep rebutting. I don't care if you want to rib me when Martin plays well. But then you shouldn't get all upset when the stats you quoted come back to bite you later.


I agree with the bold part and I laugh at the notion of KA being a plus on defense. let's say KA is slightly less bad.

You can laugh all you want, but Kyle's defensive metrics are outstanding. He has weaknesses, just like Green does, for example. But the aggregate package has been great.


I do like your "when he is on his offense is really good"... issue is it is not often the case.

He's very similar to Green in that regard with the big difference being that Green helps the offense just by standing there whereas Kyle doesn't have that gravity.


I did not check his defensive stats but if this is true it is a proof that a lot of advanced metrics are fucked up

There really isn't a metric that says Kyle isn't a good defender. You can eye-test if you want, but I think he's third on the team as far as perimeter defense goes.


oh and before you overreact, yes this is an opinion

I share that opinion on advanced stats, as I've said before. However, when they all suggest Anderson is a top-five Spurs defender, it's hard to reject.

[Chinook]

:lol I said he had 4 horrible games and yes played worst than KA, where did I ignore that ? I just say it's sample size and this picture can change... or not, I complement saying Anderson picture won't change after 1,400 mn we know what we have.

I mean, you can't simultaneously say Anderson is who he is while saying he has potential. Players improve game to game, not season to season. Kyle isn't going to become a knock-down three-point shooting next game, but he damned sure can become aggressive offensively or internalize a gameplan well enough not to foul a three-point shooter.


If I'm wrong I will say I was wrong you were right... something I don't think you are capable of

I've actually been eating crow for a while when it comes to lambasting Apa's predictions on Leonard's scoring. And I've taken my share of lumps for my fandom of Green this season. But so far, you've been dead wrong on Martin, and he's struggled in the ways I said he would. I hope I'm wrong if he has to play in the post-season. But right now, I'm pretty confident he'll be a bench-warmer.


So I guess it is the same than atheists saying to believers, you have the burden of proof god exists, with no proof I can sit here and relax and be happy with my opinion god does not exist, light a cigar waiting the waitress suck my dick

That is how the burden of proof works. Again, not getting into it here as it's irrelevant, but it's critical for many metaphysical arguments for both sides to try to shift the burden of proof. It's very powerful.

[Blake]

I wasn't around for that. So I do not understand your reference. Inside joke for you though. :lol :toast

Oh yeah, I'm no doubt the only one that loled.

[Brazil]

It's not enough to project how good he's going to be. It is enough to say that he's sucked so far. He's not going to get ahead of Anderson by playing like he's been playing.



It doesn't affect the outcome either way.



You want to agree to disagree, that's fine. But that's actually where it stops. It's not about trying to change your mind. It is about continuing a discussion so long as you keep rebutting. I don't care if you want to rib me when Martin plays well. But then you shouldn't get all upset when the stats you quoted come back to bite you later.



You can laugh all you want, but Kyle's defensive metrics are outstanding. He has weaknesses, just like Green does, for example. But the aggregate package has been great.



He's very similar to Green in that regard with the big difference being that Green helps the offense just by standing there whereas Kyle doesn't have that gravity.



There really isn't a metric that says Kyle isn't a good defender. You can eye-test if you want, but I think he's third on the team as far as perimeter defense goes.



I share that opinion on advanced stats, as I've said before. However, when they all suggest Anderson is a top-five Spurs defender, it's hard to reject.

I have nothing against the fact you call me out on Martin as I called you out on him before and no I'm not upset at all :lol So far you are getting right, I'm just saying it is too soon to draw conclusion. There is a difference between Martin and KA, Martin is imo (opinion) underperforming in a system that should help him a lot, KA is progressing but slowly very slowly. There is not enough time for KA to be POs ready when there is enough time to see Martin finally acclimate and contribute imho.

Martin is quite smart playing off the ball, he thrieves on situation where he can get open, he is a border line career .40 3pts shooter, he is 7/18 with the Spurs. I fully expect him to increase FGAs from 3 pts and keep or improve his efficiency. Mart takes around 2,5 3PTA per game he is at 1,6 with Spurs and at 4 per 36 which is in line with Twolves but he already shot 5/6 per 36 in previous years, that's where he should be.

Blair's metrics were all also great at one point, it does not change the fact he has been badly exposed on defense numerous times

[Brazil]

I mean, you can't simultaneously say Anderson is who he is while saying he has potential. Players improve game to game, not season to season. Kyle isn't going to become a knock-down three-point shooting next game, but he damned sure can become aggressive offensively or internalize a gameplan well enough not to foul a three-point shooter.



I've actually been eating crow for a while when it comes to lambasting Apa's predictions on Leonard's scoring. And I've taken my share of lumps for my fandom of Green this season. But so far, you've been dead wrong on Martin, and he's struggled in the ways I said he would. I hope I'm wrong if he has to play in the post-season. But right now, I'm pretty confident he'll be a bench-warmer.



That is how the burden of proof works. Again, not getting into it here as it's irrelevant, but it's critical for many metaphysical arguments for both sides to try to shift the burden of proof. It's very powerful.

Except KA progression is slow lik his 3 pts release

I don't do shift the burden of proof BS, I state straight up what I think, explain why, read other opinions, react... I don't play mind games with poster to get them confused

[SAGirl]

:lmao now that's the best... are you really asking "is Tony inspiring this hate toward young teammates ?" :lmao are you going to chase me around with a bible or something ?

George Hill had the same age or so and produces 10 times more than KA.. this is a fact darling.

Pop played tons of minutes of RJ, centerpiece and tell me they are not scrubs ? DeJuan Blair played more minutes in his second year than KA in his first two years :lol so KA ceiling is DeJuan Blair ? DeJuan was 21 btw... and just to make sure I consider DeJuan is not a scrub
G.Hill came into the league after 4 seasons in college. Kyle had only 2. He's earlier in his development than G. was. Kyle came to a team that was fully rostered and was looking to repeat last season. He wasn't going to unseat anyone.
His best games were when Kawhi got injured in December. It was obvious he had to work on his game, but his best games in his rookie season were in a stretch that we needed him. You could see even with that little experience and playing time he was a better player than other guys in the roster like Daye and Ayers. The rest of his playing time except that stretch was pure garbage time around guys who are very marginal in the league like Bonner or guys who flat out were not legit NBA players and are now out of the league like Williams, Daye, Ayers.
Hate is indeed using the minutes of that patchwork/scattered playing time in his rookie season to think that is all he is. Along the way he dominated and won tournaments in all the lower leagues Spurs sent him to showing he was ready to play in a more difficult league and has earned every bit the role and time he gets now in a very deep and talented team.

I can't address G.Hill otherwise bc I was not around for his seasons. Blair was the true definition of the bad tweener but from my understanding what really did him in was the knees/weight issues. A guy that short relied on explosiveness to do what he did, once that is gone he's just not the same player.

And yes I do question you bc you do have your agendas and your clackes and your groups of players you like to hate on in a pure subjective manner, then turn around and say I am not hating.... Guess what? You are hating when most of your negative projections discard all the positives in a short period of a young career, including the reality he's currently playing better than Kmart.:lol yet you cling to Kmart so strongly and I have to question why?.? Frankly he's been a scrub.

[Brazil]

G.Hill came into the league after 4 seasons in college. Kyle had only 2. He's earlier in his development than G. was. Kyle came to a team that was fully rostered and was looking to repeat last season. He wasn't going to unseat anyone.
His best games were when Kawhi got injured in December. It was obvious he had to work on his game, but his best games in his rookie season were in a stretch that we needed him. You could see even with that little experience and playing time he was a better player than other guys in the roster like Daye and Ayers. The rest of his playing time except that stretch was pure garbage time around guys who are very marginal in the league like Bonner or guys who flat out were not legit NBA players and are now out of the league like Williams, Daye, Ayers.
Hate is indeed using the minutes of that patchwork/scattered playing time in his rookie season to think that is all he is. Along the way he dominated and won tournaments in all the lower leagues Spurs sent him to showing he was ready to play in a more difficult league and has earned every bit the role and time he gets now in a very deep and talented team.

I can't address G.Hill otherwise bc I was not around for his seasons. Blair was the true definition of the bad tweener but from my understanding what really did him in was the knees/weight issues. A guy that short relied on explosiveness to do what he did, once that is gone he's just not the same player.

And yes I do question you bc you do have your agendas and your clackes and your groups of players you like to hate on in a pure subjective manner, then turn around and say I am not hating.... Guess what? You are hating when most of your negative projections discard all the positives in a short period of a young career, including the reality he's currently playing better than Kmart.:lol yet you cling to Kmart so strongly and I have to question why?.? Frankly he's been a scrub.

:rolleyes

You don't like G. Hill comparaison... fine. Let's have a look at DeJuan... 2 years of college, 1 year younger than KA and he produced in two years twice as much as KA... you are getting short of excuses. BTW you are right about Dejuan limitation playing with no acl, KA has his limitations some difficult to correct (lack of lateral quickness) others you can work on (slow 3 pts release), thing is even working with the best shooting coach of the league, his form and release did not change much tbh...

for the rest I won't even bother... learn to read... I say KA is playing better than KMart between you and me that's not saying much. For knowing despite of that why I think KMart can be more useful than KA you just need to read what has been posted earlier

[Brazil]

finally SAGirl, if it makes you feel better thinking I hate your boy, fine... it's ok tbh I don't mind...

[ElNono]

:lol baited into a 8 page discussion of Kyle Anderson... you better than that Brazil...

[dabom]

I told y'all since day 1 that SA girl is a troll and a man.

[Brazil]

oh and :lol thinking I have an agenda towards a 10/15 mpg young dude playing for the spurs

:lmao... oh boy

[Brazil]

:lol baited into a 8 page discussion of Kyle Anderson... you better than that Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466)...

:depressed

I feel dirty

[dabom]

Don't feed the troll brah. Too easy to pick them apart tbh... :lol

[GSH]

I think people are overstating the level to which Pop shortens his rotation and especially the level to which he can be expected to do it this time.


I don't have to guess about how much Pop shortens rotations. It's easy enough to pull up basketball-reference, and look at who got minutes in the post-seasons. I did, and it was pretty clear to me that Pop favors a 9-man rotation, if he can get by with it. A few more guys always get garbage and fill-in minutes, but 9 guys is pretty much Pop's sweet spot for guys getting meaningful minutes. He played a lot of guys the year they breezed through the playoffs and kicked LeBron's ass. He played a lot of guys the year they lost in the first round to Dallas. In 04-05, the year they beat the Pistons in the Finals, he basically went with an 8-man rotation.

If Pop gives more than 9 guys meaningful minutes, it's probably a bad sign. This year, I'm guessing he will use 9, but maybe not the same 9 every game/series. I'm thinking 8 guys will play every game, and a couple of others will play some and sit some. When you look back on the playoff stats, I would bet that Kyle will show something like 9-10 minutes per game, but he won't have played every game. He'll average about 6 minutes for the total number of games the team plays. The 9th guy will average about twice that, more or less. The only way I see that changing much is if they have a blowout series, one way or the other. Like I said before, if Pop is playing a longer rotation than that, it's bad news.

How's that for a prediction?

[ceperez]

I don't have to guess about how much Pop shortens rotations. It's easy enough to pull up basketball-reference, and look at who got minutes in the post-seasons. I did, and it was pretty clear to me that Pop favors a 9-man rotation, if he can get by with it. A few more guys always get garbage and fill-in minutes, but 9 guys is pretty much Pop's sweet spot for guys getting meaningful minutes. He played a lot of guys the year they breezed through the playoffs and kicked LeBron's ass. He played a lot of guys the year they lost in the first round to Dallas. In 04-05, the year they beat the Pistons in the Finals, he basically went with an 8-man rotation.

If Pop gives more than 9 guys meaningful minutes, it's probably a bad sign. This year, I'm guessing he will use 9, but maybe not the same 9 every game/series. I'm thinking 8 guys will play every game, and a couple of others will play some and sit some. When you look back on the playoff stats, I would bet that Kyle will show something like 9-10 minutes per game, but he won't have played every game. He'll average about 6 minutes for the total number of games the team plays. The 9th guy will average about twice that, more or less. The only way I see that changing much is if they have a blowout series, one way or the other. Like I said before, if Pop is playing a longer rotation than that, it's bad news.

How's that for a prediction?

Hmmm..... I think it's going to be 10, not 9. If you say 9, then it means nobody is backing up Leonard and your playing either Green and Manu or Mills and Parker at the same time. Anderson is serviceable and contributes in all sorts of ways, so I think its 10 and Anderson plays.

Bonner, Miller, Martin, Simmons and Boban aren't playing unless its a blow out. However, I can see Boban playing against the like of Adams (Thunder) and Moskov (Cavs). I see Martin and Simmons putting in time playing small ball against GSW. It could be that West and Duncan don't play a lot against GSW.

[GSH]

Hmmm..... I think it's going to be 10, not 9. If you say 9, then it means nobody is backing up Leonard and your playing either Green and Manu or Mills and Parker at the same time. Anderson is serviceable and contributes in all sorts of ways, so I think its 10 and Anderson plays.


Can't argue with the logic. Personally, I think Pop is going to ride Kawhi like a racehorse. I think Kyle will get 10 minutes, plus or minus, but not play in some games. But we don't have to wait too long now, to find out which way it goes. The worst part of waiting is going to be all the meltdown threads on the nights Pop rests guys.

[SAGirl]

:rolleyes

You don't like G. Hill comparaison... fine. Let's have a look at DeJuan... 2 years of college, 1 year younger than KA and he produced in two years twice as much as KA... you are getting short of excuses. BTW you are right about Dejuan limitation playing with no acl, KA has his limitations some difficult to correct (lack of lateral quickness) others you can work on (slow 3 pts release), thing is even working with the best shooting coach of the league, his form and release did not change much tbh...

for the rest I won't even bother... learn to read... I say KA is playing better than KMart between you and me that's not saying much. For knowing despite of that why I think KMart can be more useful than KA you just need to read what has been posted earlier
-Its no that I dont like G.HIll. It was b4 my time so I can't really comment anything else over the observation I noted.
-Dejuan limitation we agree.
-the final point and this one you may understand it or not. If you don't we can just part ways on this and probably leave it at that IMO. You have to acknowledge what he did well b4 he was drafted and question whether that has translated. Was Kyle previously a shooter? No. His NBA skill was rebounding (translated well), he was getting the same deflections, steals, and blocks in college despite his lack of athleticism bc he has terrific timing, anticipation, and good hands (that translated too), then his most valuable and unique/special skill was his court vision and his passing coupled with his reputation for a high BBIQ (that has translated too). We basically have the same guy he was in college.

Now, the areas that he needed to improve are the same. His shot looks different and remade, but its still slow which I think saps confidence. The suspicion is that quickening it up is what has reduced his %. He shot 35% from 3 just last season, mostly from the wings/top not even the corner.

His defense was nonexistent allegedly. But he's improved as a defender a lot and is probably still getting better bc he will improve with added strength defending the post and won't be bullied as easily. B4 you jump on the gambling. It pays off for him frequently enough that disrupting the dribble is part of his defensive technique. He comes away with a lot of deflections and steals that way, and when he doesn't he still gets guys out of rhythm. Does not foul on those frequently either. Pop is known to use whatever tools a guy has and can use to his advantage. Patty and Manu gamble a lot too for example, sometimes to fail, but pays enough for them that its a plus, specially for Manu. Patty doesn't have many tools individually as a defender so being a pest and with quick feet getting into the body of someone as much as he can, is about all he can do. Kyle's long arms are his tool, and he has good enough hands to be effective at that. He also has good body control, can stay close enough to quicker players with his length outstretched that they can't easily get by him. You underestimate how much his size bothers guys. He can close out without flying by for the most part and can deny angles. He can negotiate screens relatively ok, but when he doesn't he can switch and won't have a tremendous mismatch. He gets hands on passing lanes which disrupts the pnr. He does several things that are a plus. Simmons gets blown by in the perimeter much more for example.

The rest, are developing areas of his game. But he probably will be best as a playmaker and his best games have been as that (no matter the spot he's playing defensively). We just won't see him in that role until some guys retire. Hopefully by that time we have a more developed player with us who can carry the burden.

[bklynspursfan]

I have nothing against the fact you call me out on Martin as I called you out on him before and no I'm not upset at all :lol So far you are getting right, I'm just saying it is too soon to draw conclusion. There is a difference between Martin and KA, Martin is imo (opinion) underperforming in a system that should help him a lot, KA is progressing but slowly very slowly. There is not enough time for KA to be POs ready when there is enough time to see Martin finally acclimate and contribute imho.

Martin is quite smart playing off the ball, he thrieves on situation where he can get open, he is a border line career .40 3pts shooter, he is 7/18 with the Spurs. I fully expect him to increase FGAs from 3 pts and keep or improve his efficiency. Mart takes around 2,5 3PTA per game he is at 1,6 with Spurs and at 4 per 36 which is in line with Twolves but he already shot 5/6 per 36 in previous years, that's where he should be.

Blair's metrics were all also great at one point, it does not change the fact he has been badly exposed on defense numerous times

+1 been saying the same thing re: Martin.

[SAGirl]

finally SAGirl, if it makes you feel better thinking I hate your boy, fine... it's ok tbh I don't mind...
<3 It makes me happy. In good natured fun a lot of guys hate on my boy. :toast then turn around and deny it, which leaves me wondering what the heck they were doing spewing negativity here. :rollin Now I kind of like you although you probably don't me. Lol have fun Brazil, we cool.

[SAGirl]

:lol baited into a 8 page discussion of Kyle Anderson... you better than that Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466)...
All in good entertainment. I am easy to bait too. I have to sympathize with him. :lol

[Chinook]

I don't have to guess about how much Pop shortens rotations. It's easy enough to pull up basketball-reference, and look at who got minutes in the post-seasons. I did, and it was pretty clear to me that Pop favors a 9-man rotation, if he can get by with it. A few more guys always get garbage and fill-in minutes, but 9 guys is pretty much Pop's sweet spot for guys getting meaningful minutes. He played a lot of guys the year they breezed through the playoffs and kicked LeBron's ass. He played a lot of guys the year they lost in the first round to Dallas. In 04-05, the year they beat the Pistons in the Finals, he basically went with an 8-man rotation.

If Pop gives more than 9 guys meaningful minutes, it's probably a bad sign. This year, I'm guessing he will use 9, but maybe not the same 9 every game/series. I'm thinking 8 guys will play every game, and a couple of others will play some and sit some. When you look back on the playoff stats, I would bet that Kyle will show something like 9-10 minutes per game, but he won't have played every game. He'll average about 6 minutes for the total number of games the team plays. The 9th guy will average about twice that, more or less. The only way I see that changing much is if they have a blowout series, one way or the other. Like I said before, if Pop is playing a longer rotation than that, it's bad news.

How's that for a prediction?

It's a poor one. You site a "nine-man rotation" and neglect to mention that for the last couple of years, that's meant three bigs and six smalls. The last time the Spurs have gone with five smalls was in Neal was both the backup PG and the fourth wing. Before that, you had Hill doing the same thing, except he was he starting two and the Spurs went with an eight-man rotation. Assuming Pop is going to drop Anderson and kept West in a nine-man rotation is not looking at history or at the Spurs' likely opponents. More important, it's not looking at the current state of the Spurs' players.

As I stated in the part of the post you cut out, the math doesn't support the Spurs playing three wings. Even if you assume Kawhi and Green average 40 a night, which I feel is high against anyone but Golden State (yeah, not even OKC or Cleveland), it still leaves Manu to cover the remaining 26 minutes, and that's a higher mpg than he's played the last two post-seasons. There's a real concern that he can't handle three series of that. The solution might be to play Mills more. But that has two problems. It increases Parker's mpg, which has similar problems to Manu's and it hurts the Spurs defense unless the other team is playing two PGs. The only teams that do that often are Cleveland and GS, though the Warriors shouldn't count with 6-7 Livingston being the other PG. It's an option, but it's not a stable option.

Then you add in small-ball, which is a factor even if you assume Diaw will get a lot of minutes in those cases. If the Spurs have success against GS' traditional lineup (which is pretty much dependent on LMA and Tim being good enough to beat Bogut and Green), they will likely go small exclusively. So it's set up for Anderson to get minutes, or at least for another perimeter player to get them. It's a similar issue with OKC and Cleveland (and Portland, but who cares?). Those are teams that can go small for whole games. Anderson's versatility makes him a better play for the ninth man in those cases.

[100%duncan]

oh and :lol thinking I have an agenda towards a 10/15 mpg young dude playing for the spurs

:lmao... oh boy

:lol

[GSH]

It's a poor one. You site a "nine-man rotation" and neglect to mention that for the last couple of years, that's meant three bigs and six smalls. The last time the Spurs have gone with five smalls was in Neal was both the backup PG and the fourth wing. Before that, you had Hill doing the same thing, except he was he starting two and the Spurs went with an eight-man rotation. Assuming Pop is going to drop Anderson and kept West in a nine-man rotation is not looking at history or at the Spurs' likely opponents. More important, it's not looking at the current state of the Spurs' players.

As I stated in the part of the post you cut out, the math doesn't support the Spurs playing three wings. Even if you assume Kawhi and Green average 40 a night, which I feel is high against anyone but Golden State (yeah, not even OKC or Cleveland), it still leaves Manu to cover the remaining 26 minutes, and that's a higher mpg than he's played the last two post-seasons. There's a real concern that he can't handle three series of that. The solution might be to play Mills more. But that has two problems. It increases Parker's mpg, which has similar problems to Manu's and it hurts the Spurs defense unless the other team is playing two PGs. The only teams that do that often are Cleveland and GS, though the Warriors shouldn't count with 6-7 Livingston being the other PG. It's an option, but it's not a stable option.

Then you add in small-ball, which is a factor even if you assume Diaw will get a lot of minutes in those cases. If the Spurs have success against GS' traditional lineup (which is pretty much dependent on LMA and Tim being good enough to beat Bogut and Green), they will likely go small exclusively. So it's set up for Anderson to get minutes, or at least for another perimeter player to get them. It's a similar issue with OKC and Cleveland (and Portland, but who cares?). Those are teams that can go small for whole games. Anderson's versatility makes him a better play for the ninth man in those cases.


Look, do me one favor. I come here to try and talk ball with the few people still here who are capable of doing that. You're clearly one of those people. I generally don't talk shit to people who aren't Krew or attention whores. Give me that much credit. And I didn't intentionally try to cut out any of your post - I just showed the part I was responding to, so the whole thing wouldn't take up so much space.

Even back in the summer, I felt like this was an all-in kind of season, and likely Duncan's last. (Largely because I think it's likely Duncan's last.) So, yeah, I think this team has a lot riding on a 38 year-old Manu Ginobili. I understand concern that he can't handle 26-ish minutes for the whole playoffs, but I think that's what Pop will try to get out of him. That's part of the reason I think that if Pop plays a longer rotation, it's bad news - because it will mean that Manu is hurt or just gassed, and we'll be watching Plan B. Maybe I'm just delusional for thinking that there is any possibility of Manu playing that many minutes, but that's what I'm expecting to see. I think he will ride the young guys, and push the older ones - and if the wheels come off, they come off.

If we keep this up, we're going to wind up splitting hairs over how many minutes it takes to be "meaningful". That winds up with two people both saying, "I told you so", and I don't want to go there. (That may be where some of our disagreement is coming from already?) I'm thinking he will try to give Andre Miller minutes in the first round. If he's solid, I think it will be the same in the second round, and Kyle's minutes will look more like what I said. If he isn't, they will probably be more like what you said. Honestly, I don't have a clue how he will go about trying to best Golden State, so I hadn't really gone there. But in general, I think Pop will lean away from a young, developing player in favor of seasoned vets, unless the situation just doesn't leave him any choice. I'm pretty sure that even you would agree that Pop has always avoided trusting young players too extensively, come playoff time. He expressed some regret for not playing George Hill more, but I don't think he's got Kyle in the same category as a young Hill. Maybe I'm wrong.

[SAGirl]

It's a poor one. You site a "nine-man rotation" and neglect to mention that for the last couple of years, that's meant three bigs and six smalls. The last time the Spurs have gone with five smalls was in Neal was both the backup PG and the fourth wing. Before that, you had Hill doing the same thing, except he was he starting two and the Spurs went with an eight-man rotation. Assuming Pop is going to drop Anderson and kept West in a nine-man rotation is not looking at history or at the Spurs' likely opponents. More important, it's not looking at the current state of the Spurs' players.

As I stated in the part of the post you cut out, the math doesn't support the Spurs playing three wings. Even if you assume Kawhi and Green average 40 a night, which I feel is high against anyone but Golden State (yeah, not even OKC or Cleveland), it still leaves Manu to cover the remaining 26 minutes, and that's a higher mpg than he's played the last two post-seasons. There's a real concern that he can't handle three series of that. The solution might be to play Mills more. But that has two problems. It increases Parker's mpg, which has similar problems to Manu's and it hurts the Spurs defense unless the other team is playing two PGs. The only teams that do that often are Cleveland and GS, though the Warriors shouldn't count with 6-7 Livingston being the other PG. It's an option, but it's not a stable option.

Then you add in small-ball, which is a factor even if you assume Diaw will get a lot of minutes in those cases. If the Spurs have success against GS' traditional lineup (which is pretty much dependent on LMA and Tim being good enough to beat Bogut and Green), they will likely go small exclusively. So it's set up for Anderson to get minutes, or at least for another perimeter player to get them. It's a similar issue with OKC and Cleveland (and Portland, but who cares?). Those are teams that can go small for whole games. Anderson's versatility makes him a better play for the ninth man in those cases.

Getting back to the subject of the playoff rotation and away from all my Anderson worship (:spin I have to take myself with some humor too:lol), this discussion is really interesting and you are right. Every time we impose our defensive will and start beating a team, they go small. Pop has options for those minutes, but it depends what the other team is doing. These upcoming matches against GSW that Pop will tank I'd expect all our alternative options that got playing time against OKC to be playing. Anderson is getting the starting role and the toughest matches, that is no coincidence. I wonder if Pop will sit Kawhi/LMA too for those matches. Technically, they are young and don't need that rest, but if CIA Pop wants to hide his winning hand while in the meantime develop a wrinkle or two, he might sit them.

[Blake]

It's a poor one. You site a "nine-man rotation" and neglect to mention that for the last couple of years, that's meant three bigs and six smalls. The last time the Spurs have gone with five smalls was in Neal was both the backup PG and the fourth wing. Before that, you had Hill doing the same thing, except he was he starting two and the Spurs went with an eight-man rotation. Assuming Pop is going to drop Anderson and kept West in a nine-man rotation is not looking at history or at the Spurs' likely opponents. More important, it's not looking at the current state of the Spurs' players.

So to be clear, in a 9 man rotation that comes down to West or Kyle, you think West will be the odd man out?

[Kawhitstorm]

Really think this guy will be a starter in the league. I'm not sure he'll ever be able to defend legit fours, but against most teams, it'll be a no-brainer. I hope he develops and isn't shoe-horned into the sixth-man role because people think that the Spurs need a new Manu.

It's pretty clear that he isn't a good fit as a wing-player b/c he is a hesitant 3 point shooter & doesn't have the foot speed to guard scoring wings.

His future is as a backup point-forward who can check role players. He also plays like a slow-footed Shaun Livingston rather than Diaw.

[Kawhitstorm]

So to be clear, in a 9 man rotation that comes down to West or Kyle, you think West will be the odd man out?

Kyle is going to be CoJo status in the postseason. West will be in the rotation & will play MAJOR minutes when Tim is struggling offensively. West is also a better matchup against OKC's physical bigs than Diaw since he isn't afraid to mix it up. (Diaw can still be a major factor when OKC tries to play Durant at the 4)

[Blake]

Kyle is going to be CoJo status in the postseason. West will be in the rotation & will play MAJOR minutes when Tim is struggling offensively. West is also a better matchup against OKC's physical bigs than Diaw since he isn't afraid to mix it up. (Diaw can still be a major factor when OKC tries to play Durant at the 4)

Of course West will play big minutes. He didn't agree to come here for peanuts to sit and watch.

The 9 man will be Tim, Tony, Manu, Kawhi, LaMarcus, Boris, Patty, Danny, and West.

If it goes 10+, then we're talking scrub minutes for Kyle, Simmons and Bonner or whoever makes the playoff roster

[SAGirl]

Look, do me one favor. I come here to try and talk ball with the few people still here who are capable of doing that. You're clearly one of those people. I generally don't talk shit to people who aren't Krew or attention whores. Give me that much credit. And I didn't intentionally try to cut out any of your post - I just showed the part I was responding to, so the whole thing wouldn't take up so much space.

Even back in the summer, I felt like this was an all-in kind of season, and likely Duncan's last. (Largely because I think it's likely Duncan's last.) So, yeah, I think this team has a lot riding on a 38 year-old Manu Ginobili. I understand concern that he can't handle 26-ish minutes for the whole playoffs, but I think that's what Pop will try to get out of him. That's part of the reason I think that if Pop plays a longer rotation, it's bad news - because it will mean that Manu is hurt or just gassed, and we'll be watching Plan B. Maybe I'm just delusional for thinking that there is any possibility of Manu playing that many minutes, but that's what I'm expecting to see. I think he will ride the young guys, and push the older ones - and if the wheels come off, they come off.

If we keep this up, we're going to wind up splitting hairs over how many minutes it takes to be "meaningful". That winds up with two people both saying, "I told you so", and I don't want to go there. (That may be where some of our disagreement is coming from already?) I'm thinking he will try to give Andre Miller minutes in the first round. If he's solid, I think it will be the same in the second round, and Kyle's minutes will look more like what I said. If he isn't, they will probably be more like what you said. Honestly, I don't have a clue how he will go about trying to best Golden State, so I hadn't really gone there. But in general, I think Pop will lean away from a young, developing player in favor of seasoned vets, unless the situation just doesn't leave him any choice. I'm pretty sure that even you would agree that Pop has always avoided trusting young players too extensively, come playoff time. He expressed some regret for not playing George Hill more, but I don't think he's got Kyle in the same category as a young Hill. Maybe I'm wrong.

GSH, I appreciate you, but Manu hasn't done well in games playing 26-28ish minutes. There were very few of those this season, and he didn't exactly do well. Last season he went kaput on us after being overplayed and was not the same guy the rest of the season or in the playoffs.

As nice as his shot was against the depleted Pelicans it goes out after the 20-24 mark and his decision making becomes compromised and these playoffs games are not like those games. That is why Pop got Miller, K.Martin and has prioritized Anderson. Even Simmons is still around and getting development time. He's the last option, but he's still an option.

I do think we will need more minutes at the wing other than just the 3. Granted depending matches, you can ride A.Miller for a few minutes, but that is depending matches.

Although I am pro Anderson, I have also been on the record stating I want us to win. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me if my guy doesn't play if he's not ready. I am also not in some K.Martin hate wagon. It may appear that way, but its mostly because I have questioned the devotion to him when he hasn't shown much of anything yet, meantime Anderson shows up in games and helps us win games and he is underrated.

Either way though, I hope we have someone come through to give guys a breather. It might be more relevant to get the old guys to close the game with the energy to do so, than to ride them all game and not try a roleplayer out for a few minutes.

We can't even ignore the fact Bonner started games in the WCF against OKC. Granted the key matchup was Diaw. But the point is we can't ignore or discard any of these roleplayers Pop is developing as playing a small part in a championship. By the looks of what Pop is doing, it looks like getting them in rhythm and playing well right this second is more important than the rest of the team. It makes sense when one considers the late additions on the one hand not playing too well yet (Martin) and the young players needing as much development as you can spare them to be as ready as they can be at their respective stages of development (not just Anderson, but Simmons and Boban too. The fact Anderson has played so much more than the other two just gives you an inclination of how important his development this season is).

[ElNono]

Manu will play 20 to 25 mpg... I would hazard closer to 25, since he doesn't look anywhere near as banged up as he did last season... but if there's an extra 4-5 mins there, it's gonna be either Green or Martin that fill those mins up, depending on the matchup and if you can hide KMart somewhere, IMO. I think Kyle will get a shot in the 1st round at the 8-10 mins Kawhi will sit down and rest, and any potential garbage time...

[ElNono]

GSH, I appreciate you, but Manu hasn't done well in games playing 26-28ish minutes. There were very few of those this season, and he didn't exactly do well. Last season he went kaput on us after being overplayed and was not the same guy the rest of the season or in the playoffs.

As nice as his shot was against the depleted Pelicans it goes out after the 20-24 mark and his decision making becomes compromised and these playoffs games are not like those games.

Wash your mouth before talking about a HoF like that. Yes, he was burned out last season, yet he outperformed his competition and was above average throughout the series. He looks fairly rested this season (despite obviously showing his age here or there), and you simply just never doubt Gino in the playoffs. He's one of the few guys that always elevates his games when his best is needed.

Frankly, if Manu can't give you a solid 20-25 mins, this team has no chance at a championship... we might as well play Bonner-Anderson and rest everybody else for next season, tbh...

[weeks]

manu was very underwhelming last year against the clips
i hope he's got his legs beneath him this time

[dabom]

Wash your mouth before talking about a HoF like that. Yes, he was burned out last season, yet he outperformed his competition and was above average throughout the series. He looks fairly rested this season (despite obviously showing his age here or there), and you simply just never doubt Gino in the playoffs. He's one of the few guys that always elevates his games when his best is needed.

Frankly, if Manu can't give you a solid 20-25 mins, this team has no chance at a championship... we might as well play Bonner-Anderson and rest everybody else for next season, tbh...

It's a troll bro. The troll always takes subtle digs nonchalant. You can see the weak tactic a mile away. Then cry wolf(calls you a troll) to deflect when the troll is losing. :lol

[ElNono]

manu was very underwhelming last year against the clips
i hope he's got his legs beneath him this time

He wasn't great, but he outplayed Crawford, and posted a PER of 16... if you're looking for super Manu every game, yeah, that's not going to happen. But he'll give you solid play and a spectacular game here or there. At any rate, this team's makeup is fairly different this season, and we should rely a lot less on his scoring. His playmaking is vital though.

[SAGirl]

So to be clear, in a 9 man rotation that comes down to West or Kyle, you think West will be the odd man out?
It depends on what the other team is doing. D.West can be the odd man out but not bc of Kyle. Rather bc Pop may want to split LMA and TD. In that case TD in the bench takes D.West spot. I find this scenario very unpalatable for Pop. He will try to stick with his bigs, but if the other coach forces his hand, then he's forced.

[Blake]

manu was very underwhelming last year against the clips
i hope he's got his legs beneath him this time

Well we know he's got balls

[SAGirl]

Wash your mouth before talking about a HoF like that. Yes, he was burned out last season, yet he outperformed his competition and was above average throughout the series. He looks fairly rested this season (despite obviously showing his age here or there), and you simply just never doubt Gino in the playoffs. He's one of the few guys that always elevates his games when his best is needed.

Frankly, if Manu can't give you a solid 20-25 mins, this team has no chance at a championship... we might as well play Bonner-Anderson and rest everybody else for next season, tbh...
I am not hating on Manu. IMO it is really more important to spare his strength. He really was overplayed for a stretch and declined in production last season. Whether it was mental/grind I don't know. He had a rough go after December Nono, and he's really not played a lot of 26-28 minutes games which is what ppl are talking about here this season. I suppose he can give you that one or two games, but really all through the postseason, that is unreal.

[ElNono]

It's a troll bro. The troll always takes subtle digs nonchalant. You can see the weak tactic a mile away. Then cry wolf(calls you a troll) to deflect when the troll is losing. :lol

sup bro, why do they keep deleting your Parker threads, tbh? :lol