Best Spurs team in franchise history?

[ElNono]

I know this is a controversial topic, especially since no :lobt: has been won by them yet, but the truth is they're setting all sorts of NBA and franchise records this season, so I think it's a fair question.

Winning the :lobt: is hard, and entails a lot of factors, including a good amount of luck, tbh... should it really disqualify them from this convo if that goal isn't reached?

Thoughts?

[apalisoc_9]

If they win, yeah...hard to argue for without a ring, but roster and talent wise...yeah..

[MultiTroll]

Winning the :lobt: is hard, and entails a lot of factors, including a good amount of luck, tbh... should it really disqualify them from this convo if that goal isn't reached?

Thoughts?

Got to win the 'Ship to be considered GOAT Spurs teams.
Exception would be if WarriorRef completely phucks them out of win, the way the 2002 Sactown Kings won the Championship.

[spursparker9]

2014 Spurs was great

[UNT Eagles 2016]

64 wins :toast best in franchise history...


Still have to beat the damn Dubs in the POS though, no easy task

[Duncanforthree]

Bump this thread if we ring.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Bump this thread if we ring.
Or if we bow out in the first round or something.

[YGWHI]

Ring or not, this has been one of the most memorable Spurs regular seasons, and a great team.

Kawhi's #2 MVP run, LMA the best FA of the world looking so adapted to Spurs environment/culture and playing so good, DWest...LOVE him, Boban, Kyle, all the new guys, and the best part...still seeing Tim and Manu on the court.

[midnightpulp]

Ring or not, this has been one of the most memorable Spurs regular season, and a great team.

Kawhi's #2 MVP run, LMA the best FA of the world looking so adapted to Spurs environment/cultureand playing so great, DWest...LOVE him, Boban, Kyle, all the new guys, and the best part...still seeing Tim and Manu on the court.

That's probably all that matters to you :lol

[Arcadian]

If they ring, then we can discuss 2014 vs. 2016.

[baseline bum]

I don't think so even if they ring. They don't move the ball anywhere near as well as they did in 2014.

[YGWHI]

That's probably all that matters to you :lol

Yeah..because I said nothing about LMA, West, all the guys, Tim and Manu...

But but BUT Tony has to be the 3rd scorer or the Spurs will lose every game in playoffs... :cry :cry

[Hoops Czar]

Too early to write the book on 2015-16 Spurs. The 2013 and 2014 Spurs teams were the best though.

[midnightpulp]

They don't necessarily need to win the title. Sometimes as great as you are, there just so happens to be another one who is greater at the same time.

Obviously, if the Spurs win the title, it's the greatest Spurs team ever, and one of the greatest teams ever (but they need to beat a healthy Golden State). But I'll give them GOAT Spurs team if they push Golden State to 7. It sounds counterintuitive, but GS is still in the running for GOAT NBA team.

[TXstbobcat]

If they win, yeah...hard to argue for without a ring, but roster and talent wise...yeah..

Agree with this. Can't really determine until playoffs are over.

[Mikeanaro]

Nope, the league is a piece of shit now and thats why Spurs and GSW are having so many wins.

[resistanze]

I don't think so even if they ring. They don't move the ball anywhere near as well as they did in 2014.

That might make this year even more impressive tbh, same offensive rating with their current style. Plus superior defense.

[Mikeanaro]

They don't necessarily need to win the title. Sometimes as great as you are, there just so happens to be another one who is greater at the same time.

Obviously, if the Spurs win the title, it's the greatest Spurs team ever, and one of the greatest teams ever (but they need to beat a healthy Golden State). But I'll give them GOAT Spurs team if they push Golden State to 7. It sounds counterintuitive, but GS is still in the running for REFGOAT NBA team.
fify

[coachmac87]

Or if we bow out in the first round or something.

Aren't you supposed to eat your own shit on a sandwich or something??

[midnightpulp]

Yeah..because I said nothing about LMA, West, all the guys, Tim and Manu...

But but BUT Tony has to be the 3rd scorer or the Spurs will lose every game in playoffs... :cry :cry

Quit using strawman arguments.

The Spurs could send Tony to France, and still make the WCF. My concern is Golden State, and your shitty committee doesn't provide enough offensive firepower to win that series. Furthermore, Golden State lacks shotblocking and Wardell has trouble staying in front of just about anyone, which is why Tony has traditionally excelled against them in the Curry era.

But yeah, let's have him defer to Danny Green so he can miss another wide open 3 :lol Or give Patty House more minutes so he could get blitzed by Barbosa or posted up repeatedly by Shaun Livingston.

I'm holding out hope Manu steps up. GS plays a similar swarming style D to compensate for their lack of shotblocking like the Heat did, and Manu ate that Heat defense up in 14 (on the flipside, they ate him up in 13).

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Aren't you supposed to eat your own shit on a sandwich or something??
only if we beat the dubs and win the championship

[coachmac87]

They don't necessarily need to win the title. Sometimes as great as you are, there just so happens to be another one who is greater at the same time.

Obviously, if the Spurs win the title, it's the greatest Spurs team ever, and one of the greatest teams ever (but they need to beat a healthy Golden State). But I'll give them GOAT Spurs team if they push Golden State to 7. It sounds counterintuitive, but GS is still in the running for GOAT NBA team.


Why does it have to be a healthy GS? GS didn't beat a single healthy team last year..but a ring is a ring right?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Or give Patty House more minutes
Holy shit, you actually managed to find a better comparison for Mills than my Nick Van Exel thing I've been going with all season long :toast Go you!!!!~ :D

[Mugen]

Not IMO. Top heavy NBA this season with a lot of garbage teams that the Spurs have appropriately feasted on.

I think 2014 is better. I'll probably even take one of 2005 or 2007 over this squad tbh.

[ElNono]

I don't think so even if they ring. They don't move the ball anywhere near as well as they did in 2014.

That team was certainly more pleasant to the eye, and the last memory of it, destroying the Heat is obviously indelible...

But, they weren't the juggernaut this team is, nor they were setting these kind of records or winning this much, tbh...

I really do think that if the Dubs weren't out there winning a ridiculous amount of games, we would be talking much more highly about this team, IMO.

[steeledl]

We are too weak at the shooting guard. Don't have a decent one on the roster.. which is why I can't put this team over the 2007 or 2014 squads.

[Seventyniner]

Definitely the best Spurs team ever through 76 games. That's all we can compare.

[apalisoc_9]

We are too weak at the shooting guard. Don't have a decent one on the roster.. which is why I can't put this team over the 2007 or 2014 squads.

2007 spurs is one of the 3 weakest champions in the last 16 years.

[Darius Bieber]

Easy there, the Spurs barely beat a Toronto team without their top two stars and them coming off a back-to-back in Memphis..

[ElNono]

We are too weak at the shooting guard. Don't have a decent one on the roster.. which is why I can't put this team over the 2007 or 2014 squads.

uh? We have the #4 and #7 best SGs in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2)... granted, it's a position that has been pretty weak league-wide over the last few years...

[ElNono]

2007 spurs is one of the 3 weakest champions in the last 16 years.

Dunno about weak, but definitely easiest run...

[SAGirl]

Ring or not, this has been one of the most memorable Spurs regular seasons, and a great team.

Kawhi's #2 MVP run, LMA the best FA of the world looking so adapted to Spurs environment/culture and playing so good, DWest...LOVE him, Boban, Kyle, all the new guys, and the best part...still seeing Tim and Manu on the court.
^This Kawhi has been spectacular number 1 factor and healthy most of the season.
We have more depth than we have ever gotten. So much so that we cut two guys that are NBA players to get better ones.

It is a bit nostalgic bc it's the real twilight from Timmy and Manu, and we have some young rolplayers developing that are not all they can be or will be in coming years.

It might be blasphemy and I apologize ahead of time since I didn't see that team, but it reminds me of 2003 Spurs when MVTImmy carried a Spurs roster with some about to retire best and then youngsters Tony and Manu.

Here MVPKawhi and LMA are carrying a kind of similar roster. Feels like a blend of old & young.

Bottom line we are unlikely to have this much talent jumbled together.

We need :lobt: to register the team in its proper historical place.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

uh? We have the #4 and #7 best SGs in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2)... granted, it's a position that has been pretty weak league-wide over the last few years...
Idk if you can go by the Lenovo Stat alone... what about WS/PER?

[ElNono]

Easy there, the Spurs barely beat a Toronto team without their top two stars and them coming off a back-to-back in Memphis..

:lol we're 76 games in... best start in franchise history, NBA record for wins at home, most franchise wins... it's not about the last few games... sample size is pretty big

[steeledl]

uh? We have the #4 and #7 best SGs in the league (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2)... granted, it's a position that has been pretty weak league-wide over the last few years...

You just discredited that metric. That's all you did there.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Dunno about weak, but definitely easiest run...
Thanks to the Warriors, tbh. So even if we lose to them this year we can always be thankful for basically gifting us a ring that year. Right?

[pgardn]

Regular season.

Who knows.

[apalisoc_9]

Dunno about weak, but definitely easiest run...

You're right. That year was so shitty.

[Sean Cagney]

2014 Spurs was great

Unbeatable that post season sides the hiccup in round one, they were on a tear from game 7 on.

[YGWHI]

your shitty committee doesn't provide enough offensive firepower to win that series

Stop acting like Patty was shit against Clippers last playoffs...Or like Manu didn't have good games this season...And Danny is called Icy-Hot for some reason, he can on hot streaks too...

My committee is made up of champs, Spurs champs.

[ElNono]

Idk if you can go by the Lenovo Stat alone... what about WS/PER?

dunno how to get the splits by position...

[ElNono]

You just discredited that metric. That's all you did there.

Well, let's see your metrics...

[SAGirl]

That team was certainly more pleasant to the eye, and the last memory of it, destroying the Heat is obviously indelible...

But, they weren't the juggernaut this team is, nor they were setting these kind of records or winning this much, tbh...

I really do think that if the Dubs weren't out there winning a ridiculous amount of games, we would be talking much more highly about this team, IMO.
Good point. :tu

[PopTheGOAT]

I don't think so even if they ring. They don't move the ball anywhere near as well as they did in 2014.
Gotta wait till playoffs to make that judgement, tbh. That team didn't even look that great until the playoffs in 2nd round.

[sasaint]

10 - 15 - 20 years from now fans will recall in awe the season that we had Tim, Tony, Manu, LaMarcus and Kawhi on the roster. Memories can definitely over-glorify the past, but the amazing roster and the historic accomplishments will place this team right at the top, if not the top.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

10 - 15 - 20 years from now fans will recall in awe the season that we had Tim, Tony, Manu, LaMarcus and Kawhi on the roster. Memories can definitely over-glorify the past, but the amazing roster and the historic accomplishments will place this team right at the top, if not the top.
Imagine if we did get the 41-0, though

[ElNono]

Idk if you can go by the Lenovo Stat alone... what about WS/PER?

Here's PER:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg

[steeledl]

Well, let's see your metrics...

First answer me this, do you think we have the 4th and 7th best SG's in the NBA?

[ElNono]

First answer me this, do you think we have the 4th and 7th best SG's in the NBA?

I think we have at least one in the top 10... SG has been a weak position league-wide, tbh... that's why it hasn't hurt us that Danny has struggled.

[Hoops Czar]

That team was certainly more pleasant to the eye, and the last memory of it, destroying the Heat is obviously indelible...

But, they weren't the juggernaut this team is, nor they were setting these kind of records or winning this much, tbh...

I really do think that if the Dubs weren't out there winning a ridiculous amount of games, we would be talking much more highly about this team, IMO.

2014 team would squash this team like a bug. Don't get caught up in regular season nostalgia. The league is historically bad and the Spurs and Warriors are reaping the benefits. It's tough to put this team ahead of 2014 Spurs when their best road win on the season was probably Detroit.

[Obstructed_View]

Not IMO. Top heavy NBA this season with a lot of garbage teams that the Spurs have appropriately feasted on.

I think 2014 is better. I'll probably even take one of 2005 or 2007 over this squad tbh.

I agree. And 99 and 2003 were better than the two you mentioned, so there's that. The 2006 team should have won the title easily but Pop lost his smallmall-loving mind in the playoffs. Damn you, Nazr for shooting that three.

[daslicer]

I would say no because this team doesn't have prime Duncan.

[Obstructed_View]

And as for this team compared to the 2014 team, can I have the 2014 Danny Green for a while before I decide?

[ElNono]

2014 team would squash this team like a bug. Don't get caught up in regular season nostalgia. The league is historically bad and the Spurs and Warriors are reaping the benefits. It's tough to put this team ahead of 2014 Spurs when their best road win on the season was probably Detroit.

Why only the Spurs and Dubs if it's so bad? Why not, say, Cleveland or OKC are setting records?

[steeledl]

I think we have at least one in the top 10... SG has been a weak position league-wide, tbh... that's why it hasn't hurt us that Danny has struggled.

Then why make statements that you yourself dont believe? You think Danny is a top 10 sg...???

[midnightpulp]

2007 spurs is one of the 3 weakest champions in the last 16 years.

Just make sure you have the 09 and 10 Lakers topping that list :toast

Those teams beat no one. (:lol Old Man 50 win Celtics team missing Kendrick Perkins).

[ElNono]

Then why make statements that you yourself dont believe? You think Danny is a top 10 sg...???

I backed it up, which is more than you have done so far. Defensively he's probably top 5. His struggles are entirely offense-related. There's two sides to the floor.

[Hoops Czar]

Why only the Spurs and Dubs if it's so bad? Why not, say, Cleveland or OKC are setting records?

Cleveland isn't that good. For the first time in years, a Lebron led team isn't a lock to make the finals. OKC lacks depth to be a serious contender + they have Enes Cancer. :lol However, if the Spurs surrender home court the Thunder, they could be in for a real dog fight.

[midnightpulp]

Stop acting like Patty was shit against Clippers last playoffs...Or like Manu didn't have good games this season...And Danny is called Icy-Hot for some reason, he can on hot streaks too...

My committee is made up of champs, Spurs champs.

And Danny's been about 90% Icy, 10% hot this season.

Manu is my hope here. I don't trust D-League and House against the Warriors (I do trust Danny on defense, however).

[Hoops Czar]

I backed it up, which is more than you have done so far. Defensively he's probably top 5. His struggles are entirely offense-related. There's two sides to the floor.

DG has been very inconsistent defensively. You really don't know what DG is going to show up from game to game.

[ElNono]

Cleveland isn't that good. For the first time in years, a Lebron led team isn't a lock to make the finals. OKC lacks depth to be a serious contender + they have Enes Cancer. :lol However, if the Spurs surrender home court the Thunder, they could be in for a real dog fight.

My main issue with the argument that the league is so weak just this season is that the Dubs were destroying teams last season too... and I don't think we heard that much last season how the league was weak. IMO, that's an indicator that the Spurs did have a measurable improvement this season.

[ElNono]

DG has been very inconsistent defensively. You really don't know what DG is going to show up from game to game.

Have you see the list of 'best' SG lately? Guys like Jimmy Butler became scorers and their defense took a complete shit. Most of the other ones don't defend at all (Harden, DeRozan, Wade, Reddick)... He's probably top 3 on defense by default..

[SpursDynasty]

I think the Spurs need to go at least 69-13 in the regular season to be considered better than the 2005 or 2014 Spurs. There are too many teams who have won 64-67 games in a season ('08 Celtics, '09 Cavs, '13 Heat, '07 Mavericks, '15 Warriors) who were not that great, so regular season doesn't mean much.

[baseline bum]

But, they weren't the juggernaut this team is, nor they were setting these kind of records or winning this much, tbh...

I think the 2014 team was better. I mean no one would call the 2000 Lakers better than the 2001 Lakers just because the 2000 team won 67 games. A lot of regular season wins is nice, but it doesn't make you an all time great team. The 72 Celtics, 96 Sonics, 98 Jazz, 06 Pistons, 07 Mavs, and 09 Cavs won a ton of games too.

[ElNono]

I think the 2014 team was better. I mean no one would call the 2000 Lakers better than the 2001 Lakers just because the 2000 team won 67 games. A lot of regular season wins is nice, but it doesn't make you an all time great team. The 72 Celtics, 96 Sonics, 98 Jazz, 06 Pistons, 07 Mavs, and 09 Cavs won a ton of games too.

I understand if the :lobt: is the ultimate validator, tbh... I can respect that opinion

[baseline bum]

I understand if the :lobt: is the ultimate validator, tbh... I can respect that opinion

This team has been a monster all season, but I haven't seen them really get it together like that 2014 team. After the first six games of the Dallas series they were just beating the shit out of everyone. But for some reason this team is way better at home than on the road.

[elemento]

I think this is definitely the team with the most talent overall.

I'm not sure I'd call this team the best until I see what they're capable of doing in the playoffs.

I think that those 05-06-07 Spurs teams were the best we've had.

[Obstructed_View]

Why only the Spurs and Dubs if it's so bad? Why not, say, Cleveland or OKC are setting records?

The badness is mostly on the west side so Cleveland plays a tougher schedule. As for OKC, they're a team that didn't make the playoffs last year, probably isn't as good, and is in third place.

[PopTheGOAT]

I think the Spurs need to go at least 69-13 in the regular season to be considered better than the 2005 or 2014 Spurs. There are too many teams who have won 64-67 games in a season ('08 Celtics, '09 Cavs, '13 Heat, '07 Mavericks, '15 Warriors) who were not that great, so regular season doesn't mean much.
I think the separating factor would be that they beat a (probably) record-setting team on the way to a title

[jdelar03]

If they dont ring, you cant even ask, you gotta ring to be considered GREAT.

[Mugen]

To bum's point, this team doesn't really have any impressive road wins this year. Great teams win on the road. They'll get their chance in the postseason but I still have doubts about the team's mental fortitude tbh.

[Hoops Czar]

My main issue with the argument that the league is so weak just this season is that the Dubs were destroying teams last season too... and I don't think we heard that much last season how the league was weak. IMO, that's an indicator that the Spurs did have a measurable improvement this season.

The Warriors were a great team last year but a number of teams took a giant step backwards this year... Houston, Memphis, Clippers, NOH, Portland, Phoenix, Bulls, Wizards and bucks. 7 western conference teams won 50 games last year and 5 won 55+ games. I'm not saying the Spurs aren't great but historically great is a stretch without beating the favored Warriors.


Have you see the list of 'best' SG lately? Guys like Jimmy Butler became scorers and their defense took a complete shit. Most of the other ones don't defend at all (Harden, DeRozan, Wade, Reddick)... He's probably top 3 on defense by default..

Is his top 3 defense by default good enough though if he a zero on offense? Pop had him sitting on the bench to close the game tonight and this wasn't the first time this season he's found himself on the bench in crunch time. His transition D has been great but His man to man D's been insufferable at times. How many friggin times is he going to bite on the pump fake for crying out loud. Other times, he bites on penetration leaving his defender wide open for an uncontested jump shot. DRPM is a flawed stat and I'm not sure how much of it is dependent on the players that share the court with him.

[ElNono]

The Warriors were a great team last year but a number of teams took a giant step backwards this year... Houston, Memphis, Clippers, NOH, Portland, Phoenix, Bulls, Wizards and bucks. 7 western conference teams won 50 games last year and 5 won 55+ games. I'm not saying the Spurs aren't great but historically great is a stretch without beating the favored Warriors.

Fair enough.


Is his top 3 defense by default good enough though if he a zero on offense? Pop had him sitting on the bench to close the game tonight and this wasn't the first time this season he's found himself on the bench in crunch time. His transition D has been great but His man to man D's been insufferable at times. How many friggin times is he going to bite on the pump fake for crying out loud. Other times, he bites on penetration leaving his defender wide open for an uncontested jump shot. DRPM is a flawed stat and I'm not sure how much of it is dependent on the players that share the court with him.

I just started another thread about this, tbh... IMO, the SG position it's the weakest it's been in many years. We're on a transition period where you still have the old dogs producing well enough and very young up and coming kids that are not there yet (Harden is likely the exception). That's why a slumping Green hasn't affected us (obviously, the fact that he plays with high scorers like LMA and Kawhi helps).

[Obstructed_View]

My main issue with the argument that the league is so weak just this season is that the Dubs were destroying teams last season too... and I don't think we heard that much last season how the league was weak. IMO, that's an indicator that the Spurs did have a measurable improvement this season.

You're not wrong, but look at it a different way. Last year the Warriors had three losing teams in their division and the Spurs had five playoff teams, four with 50-win records in theirs. The Spurs did have a measurable improvement, but last year's Spurs team was better than their 55 wins, and this year's probably isn't quite as good as whatever their record turns out to be.

[TampaDude]

If they don't ring, they're not even in the conversation, no matter how many regular season games they win, or even if they go 41-0 at home. Without that :lobt: at the end, all those regular season numbers are just a footnote, soon to be forgotten.

When you're talking about GOAT teams, rings matter. :toast

[Old School 44]

2014 team is the best. They had to win the title twice, once on the floor and also the battle in their head. And when the Finals test came, the Spurs didn't just beat the Heat, they obliterated them, breaking up the Heat and changing the landscape of an entire conference and the entire league. How many champions can say that?

Where point differential in the regular season is looked at as a sign of strength, the 2014 Spurs set the record for Finals point differential, breaking numerous shooting percentage records along the way.

They inspired people and teams, including the juggernaut that is the Warriors. Everyone wants to play like the Spurs. IMO, no Spurs team will ever surpass 2014, because that team will always come with overcoming the heartbreak of 2013.

[TampaDude]

2014 team is the best. They had to win the title twice, once on the floor and also the battle in their head. And when the Finals test came, the Spurs didn't just beat the Heat, they obliterated them, breaking up the Heat and changing the landscape of an entire conference. How many champions can say that?

Where point differential in the regular season is looked at as a sign of strength, the 2014 Spurs set the record for Finals point differential, breaking numerous shooting percentage records along the way.

They inspired people and teams, including the juggernaut that is the Warriors. Everyone wants to play like the Spurs. No Spurs team will ever surpass 2014, because it will always come with overcoming the heartbreak of 2013.

Amen. :toast

[Raven]

i think it's more a reflection of a strange decrease in the level of the west. Could still be, of course.

[cutewizard]

personally, its my opinion this has been the deepest Spurs roster in history

[TampaDude]

personally, its my opinion this has been the deepest Spurs roster in history

Probably...but they still gotta ring.

[Old School 44]

Probably...but they still gotta ring.
:bobo Yep, I don't know how you can consider any team from any sport the franchise's best without a championship. (assuming they have won titles in other years) Think 2007 Patriots near perfect season, I doubt many Patriot fans would call that team their best ever after losing in the Super Bowl to the Giants.

[will_spurs]

Great teams are made in the playoffs. Only thing we can say right now is that it's been the best regular season so far, but mostly due to how weak the West has become. This team's greatness revolves around getting out of the West. Many times in the past I was a bit underwhelmed by the regular season (as I am this year despite the record), sometimes the team clicked in the postseason, sometimes it didn't.

The 2016 Spurs would have to be great against GSW in the WCF to top the 2014 Spurs, still the most beautiful basketball I've ever seen.

[SouthernFried]

It sure doesn't feel like the best Spurs team ever.

I have never seen basketball as good as the 2014 Spurs. That team felt like an oiled machine, from top to bottom. "Team" being the operative word here. I was confident going into that playoffs as I've ever been... before or since. This team feels like we got an awesome duo, but the team doesn't feel as cohesive or well-oiled as 2014. Not even close. Doesn't mean we can't win it all...we definetly can. It's just that 2014 was a joy to watch, best played basketball ever, from anyone...imho :)

[SouthernFried]

2014 team is the best. They had to win the title twice, once on the floor and also the battle in their head. And when the Finals test came, the Spurs didn't just beat the Heat, they obliterated them, breaking up the Heat and changing the landscape of an entire conference and the entire league. How many champions can say that?

Where point differential in the regular season is looked at as a sign of strength, the 2014 Spurs set the record for Finals point differential, breaking numerous shooting percentage records along the way.

They inspired people and teams, including the juggernaut that is the Warriors. Everyone wants to play like the Spurs. IMO, no Spurs team will ever surpass 2014, because that team will always come with overcoming the heartbreak of 2013.

:toast

[DarrinS]

Nope, the league is a piece of shit now and thats why Spurs and GSW are having so many wins.

This, tbh

[100%duncan]

If they win, yeah...hard to argue for without a ring, but roster and talent wise...yeah..

/thread

[SpursFan86]

Sorry but the ring argument is dumb IMO...or at least, letting that be the sole deciding factor is dumb.

Winning a title isn't just about how good you are - it's about the surrounding circumstances as well. When did any of the other title teams have to play a 70+ win team that has an argument for being a top 3-5 team of all-time like GS? Do you guys really think the '03 team would beat this year's Warriors (although it would be amazing watching prime Tim completely demolish Draymond :lol )?

Take GS out and replace them with a typical contender (i.e. 2014 Thunder or someone like that). This team would almost certainly win in that scenario. So we have the exact same team, but they suddenly get considered better because they were lucky enough to not have to play a juggernaut like GS? That doesn't make much sense to me. It's the exact same team in both scenarios. One just had the luxury of not going up against a GOAT-tier team.

I get that the playoffs are what matters. But as long as the Spurs look impressive in the first 2 rounds and then give GS a run for their money (i.e. lose in 7 games and give GS a bigger challenge than anyone else does), I'll most likely be considering them the best Spurs team ever. I mean the Thunder this year are better than any team the 2007 squad faced at any point :lol

[Old School 44]

Sorry but the ring argument is dumb IMO...or at least, letting that be the sole deciding factor is dumb.
You're absolutely correct, but this franchise has won 5 titles. I just don't see how you can put the 2016 team over all of them if they don't win the title, especially the 2014 team.

[resistanze]

Sorry but the ring argument is dumb IMO...or at least, letting that be the sole deciding factor is dumb.

Winning a title isn't just about how good you are - it's about the surrounding circumstances as well. When did any of the other title teams have to play a 70+ win team that has an argument for being a top 3-5 team of all-time like GS? Do you guys really think the '03 team would beat this year's Warriors (although it would be amazing watching prime Tim completely demolish Draymond :lol )?

Take GS out and replace them with a typical contender (i.e. 2014 Thunder or someone like that). This team would almost certainly win in that scenario. So we have the exact same team, but they suddenly get considered better because they were lucky enough to not have to play a juggernaut like GS? That doesn't make much sense to me. It's the exact same team in both scenarios. One just had the luxury of not going up against a GOAT-tier team.

I get that the playoffs are what matters. But as long as the Spurs look impressive in the first 2 rounds and then give GS a run for their money (i.e. lose in 7 games and give GS a bigger challenge than anyone else does), I'll most likely be considering them the best Spurs team ever. I mean the Thunder this year are better than any team the 2007 squad faced at any point :lol

qft

[will_spurs]

Sorry but the ring argument is dumb IMO...or at least, letting that be the sole deciding factor is dumb.

Winning a title isn't just about how good you are - it's about the surrounding circumstances as well. When did any of the other title teams have to play a 70+ win team that has an argument for being a top 3-5 team of all-time like GS? Do you guys really think the '03 team would beat this year's Warriors (although it would be amazing watching prime Tim completely demolish Draymond :lol )?

The Warriors are a great team, sure, but they are on the verge of becoming legendary only because the league is so weak, especially bigs. Can you imagine Draymond vs Shaq during the showtime Lakers era? That Warriors team would be a 45-to-50 wins team, and Draymong would be crying to his mamma after Shaq has landed on his face a couple of times.

The 2014 team destroyed Miami in the playoffs and that was a tough team to beat. If the 2016 Spurs can't at least beat the Warriors (at which point a ring sounds quite likely) then no they aren't better than the 2014 Spurs.

[cd98]

This is the deepest team ever, which gives the Spurs a huge advantage in the regular season, but not so much in the playoffs. The best team in terms of winning in the playoffs was probably 2003 or 2005.

[cd98]

The Warriors are a great team, sure, but they are on the verge of becoming legendary only because the league is so weak, especially bigs. Can you imagine Draymond vs Shaq during the showtime Lakers era? That Warriors team would be a 45-to-50 wins team, and Draymong would be crying to his mamma after Shaq has landed on his face a couple of times.

The 2014 team destroyed Miami in the playoffs and that was a tough team to beat. If the 2016 Spurs can't at least beat the Warriors (at which point a ring sounds quite likely) then no they aren't better than the 2014 Spurs.

I don't think the league is weak. I think it has changed. There are a lot of great players and good teams in the NBA, but it has turned into a small ball league with three point shooting and not enough back to the basket bigs have passed through.

[ElNono]

The 2014 team and championship is also my fave so far, but let's not pretend they were not one bad shooting game/dejuan blair kick away from getting eliminated in the 1st round, tbh...

That game 7 against Dallas was ultimately the catalyst that really flipped a switch.

[UZER]

Yes, but if you're a title contender and don't win it all, it means jack. Ask mavs fan if they prefer the '07 or '11.

[will_spurs]

I don't think the league is weak. I think it has changed. There are a lot of great players and good teams in the NBA, but it has turned into a small ball league with three point shooting and not enough back to the basket bigs have passed through.

Current #7 and #8 seeds in the West are sitting at .500 exactly. Sorry but that's the weakest the West has been in a while, probably in the whole Duncan era actually.

[DMC]

No.

Poorly constructed NBA league with piss poor balance, two teams 10+ games up on the field (entire field). That doesn't make sense in an 82 game season that two teams would separate themselves from the peleton by 10+ games. You had two teams in April with no home losses, in the same conference. It just doesn't scream out "greatest team" to me. Best results thus far, sure, but the 2006 Mavericks won like 66 games and lost in the 1st round. I'd not call them the best Mavericks team ever.

Other than Curry and the retirement of cancer this season, the focus seemed to have been on who can land the 1st overall pick. It's become a tanking league because the current players like CP3 and Melo are overblown by press coverage and haven't done anything to back it up. The fanbase is dying for some real juggernaut talent to step from the cesspool.

[Joseph Kony]

People romanticize the past so much :lol

This is easily the greatest Spurs team ever with only the 2014 team having a legit argument imo.

[cd98]

Current #7 and #8 seeds in the West are sitting at .500 exactly. Sorry but that's the weakest the West has been in a while, probably in the whole Duncan era actually.

Yes but it's not unusual or historically weak to have the bottom two seeds of either conference at below .500. The east has been that way the entire Duncan era, it seems. But the East looks much better this year. And every year it was obvious that there was two powerhouses in the league and a few teams that were borderline contenders, and tgen the rest had no shot. That's just true every year for the last 25 years or more. This year it's no different. There are three power houses and two or three teams that could contend and the rest are blah.

[Splits]

It's pretty simple. If we beat a 70+ win team in the playoffs and ring, then you can make the case. If not, then no.

[mingus]

Premature thread. The "real" tests (where they rank among historically great teams) come in the Playoffs, and so you can only have this debate after that fact. One of the reasons for that is because that's when the fiber of a team gets tested, it's when we find out if their balls shrink or not under pressure. I don't/can't rank unless I have testicular measurements.

[spurs10]

The 2014 team and championship is also my fave so far, but let's not pretend they were not one bad shooting game/dejuan blair kick away from getting eliminated in the 1st round, tbh...

That game 7 against Dallas was ultimately the catalyst that really flipped a switch. 2014 was an historical Disney-like tale of the greatest comeback in sports. The 2005 team was a tough group- a Big 3, Big Shot Bob, and Bruce is quite a team. As to which team was better it's hard to say. This year I have a good feeling about timing. LMA and Kawhi are peaking at the right time. With last night's game hopefully being an exception, we get Patty, Manu, Tony, Diaw, West, Tim, and Danny doing their part and this team is right up there.

Getting past GSW will match the unreal 2014 Redemption Title in many ways- that still seems surreal. I think this might be our deepest team.

[spursistan]

The 2014 team and championship is also my fave so far, but let's not pretend they were not one bad shooting game/dejuan blair kick away from getting eliminated in the 1st round, tbh...

That game 7 against Dallas was ultimately the catalyst that really flipped a switch.
Man It is amazing how much total legacies and future of franchises hinge on random break here and there..luck and quirky tactics play in the outcome of Chips no matter how dominant you are during 80-90 games stretch, which why it is silly to pencil in this Dubs for the LOBT even if they get past us or we do..I remember how we were destroying that Mavs team the previous years and coming off 19-game winning streak, and yet Carlisle gummed us up and, for of good part of 6 games, the Mavs looked like the better team...:lol

[313]

I don't see why this wouldn't be considered the best team ever when it's basically a significantly upgraded 2014 team.

[313]

People overrate the passing on the 2014 team. The 2012 and 2013 teams were more fun to watch although both seasons ended in heartbreak, while the 2014 got hot at the right time.

and how can you fault this years team for not having big road wins when the 2014 team got swept by the Rockets and thunder in the regular season :lol

The 2014 team barely beat the Mavs in seven, destroyed a shitty Blazers team, then played their toughest test in the WCF. Who knows how that series goes if Inaka is healthy, but I like to think they couldn't beat us on our home floor. The final against the Heat was a good redemption story, but let's not act like that was the 2012 Heat out there. It was easily the weakest of the Heat era.

[Keepin' it real]

I find it hard to rank any Spurs team above the 2005 team with prime Manu, near prime Tim and clutch Robert Horry.

[spursistan]

The emotional element (6) and the aesthetic bias (The Beautiful Game :cry) endearingly attached to the 2014 team will always keeps it in discussion for GOAT SPURS team even if we beat the Warriors and go a crazy 16-3 or 16-4 in playoffs and unbeaten at home..

[EVAY]

Emotionally 2014 will always be the best team in memory to me because it brought into full focus the best that basketball as a sport had to offer - passing, motion, teamwork, defense, heart, etc. etc. etc. A genuine "made for the movies" team.

Hard to objectively compare the two because 2014 was much more of a 'system' team, whereas this team plays so much more iso ball.

IF the 2016 team wins a championship, it will do so with clearly LMA or Kawhi as the MVP. In the 2014 team, Kawhi was the MVP, but it could just as easily have been Boris Diaw (who had a good claim to the MVP as an all around player before Kawhi's athletic dominance came to light during the Finals series) or some other shooter who got hot that year. In other words, no superstar had a better claim (and all clearly had less claim) to the MVP than did several role players. No one would expect that to be the case this year. Thus, to me, they are very different teams.

2014 was when Kawhi emerged as a 'superstar', because Pop pushed him and pushed him and pushed him to dominate.

[baseline bum]

The 2014 team and championship is also my fave so far, but let's not pretend they were not one bad shooting game/dejuan blair kick away from getting eliminated in the 1st round, tbh...


Conversely, they were a luck shot from Carter from probably winning in 5.

[baseline bum]

People overrate the passing on the 2014 team. The 2012 and 2013 teams were more fun to watch although both seasons ended in heartbreak, while the 2014 got hot at the right time.


Really? The 2012 and 2013 teams' success seemed to come mostly from Parker collapsing opposing defenses with his drives. The 2014 team didn't have that luxury with Parker's speed starting to really fall off that season and beyond.

[EVAY]

Conversely, they were a luck shot from Carter from probably winning in 5.

I honestly thought that the 2014 series with Dallas was as hard as it was because Carlisle had his team so well primed for us, and it literally took our coaching staff 5 games or so to figure out what the Mavs were doing that was giving us so much trouble. Once the tactic was worked out, the Spurs looked confident and in control. That is why I think that team was so good...as soon as they figured it out, they worked well together and with little question...through the rest of the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

I honestly thought that the 2014 series with Dallas was as hard as it was because Carlisle had his team so well primed for us, and it literally took our coaching staff 5 games or so to figure out what the Mavs were doing that was giving us so much trouble. Once the tactic was worked out, the Spurs looked confident and in control. That is why I think that team was so good...as soon as they figured it out, they worked well together and with little question...through the rest of the playoffs.

Yeah, Carlisle did an incredible job that series. I think he's pretty easily the second best coach in the league. I'll never understand why Indiana ever let him go.

[will_spurs]

the 2006 Mavericks won like 66 games and lost in the 1st round. I'd not call them the best Mavericks team ever.

Not sure what you're talking about, the 2006 Mavs went to the Finals where they were promptly robbed of a title because Stern wanted to punish Cuban.

EDIT: ok you meant 2007, when Dallas won 67 games, was 1st seed and beaten by the Warriors.


Yes but it's not unusual or historically weak to have the bottom two seeds of either conference at below .500.

I was talking about the West. The East in the past 15 years has been exactly like the West is right now: 2 contenders and the rest mostly crap.

But since we play more games against the West, and have 3 series through the West during the postseason on the way to a title, the strength of the West is what counts.

W-L % of the 8th seed in the West during the Duncan era, starting with last year:

.549
.598
.549
.545
.561
.610
.585
.610
.512 (2007 when GSW and Lakers tied for last place with a 42-40 record)
.537
.549
.524
.537
.537
.573
.537
.500 (1999, shortened season)
.500 (1998, Duncan's rookie season)

So apart from 2007 this season is the weakest the West has been in the Duncan era, and quite clearly.

[DMC]

Not sure what you're talking about, the 2006 Mavs went to the Finals where they were promptly robbed of a title because Stern wanted to punish Cuban.

EDIT: ok you meant 2007, when Dallas won 67 games, was 1st seed and beaten by the Warriors.

Yes exactly. I'm really glad GS beat them that year for obvious reasons, still have a soft place in my heart for GS because of it, but it's growing harder every day.

[TD 21]

The 2014 team and championship is also my fave so far, but let's not pretend they were not one bad shooting game/dejuan blair kick away from getting eliminated in the 1st round, tbh...

That game 7 against Dallas was ultimately the catalyst that really flipped a switch.

They weren't losing that series. It reminded me of Suns-Lakers in '06. Even had the Mavs got it to 3-1, the Spurs had too much riding on that run to go out to such a mediocre team, in the 1st round.

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest legacies, especially Parker's (because he was the one in his prime and it was supposedly "his team"), were somewhat on the line. Not just game 6 in '13, but the way the previous three playoffs had ended for them. Had they lost, they'd have been branded choke artists/the team that "couldn't win the big one".

That fire the entire team and especially Parker came with in game 7, would have emerged in game 5 had they went down 3-1.


As for best team, it's hard to argue with the overwhelming numbers and maybe it is the revenge/aesthetics that the '14 had going for them, but at this writing, I feel they were better. They didn't have two players playing at this level, but they had basically an entire rotation playing at a higher level than this team.

[Doctor J]

I don't know. Who remembers the 94-95 Spurs? They won 62 games. David Robinson won the MVP, and the Spurs was great during both the regular and post season up until they faced the red hot Rockets in the conference finals.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think the 2005 2007 and 2014 teams could beat these Spurs in a series. The league has been extremely weak this year so we're getting inflated numbers out of the Spurs. I mean when you watch the Spurs play this season so far do you really see them as an all time great? They're obviously good but I'd easily take some of the older teams over this year's team.

[Yuixafun]

If I could have one team it's 2005.

Our stars were brighter, our defense was a dream.

We dominated all styles of play.

Peak Duncan Manu > Kawhi Lma

23 year old Parker over 34 Parker

Bowen over Green

Horry over Diaw

This team would get waxxed by 2005 Detroit they don't execute well enough nor get that must have stop.

Gaudy records and numbers... But head to head 2005 would suffocate this team.

[Pauleta14]

I don't think so even if they ring. They don't move the ball anywhere near as well as they did in 2014.

This.

This season's team is just facing a lower competition, hence the record...

This is one of the weakest nba season in memory tbh... between the tanking, the constant turnover of players, the average age younger every year...

[ElNono]

They weren't losing that series. It reminded me of Suns-Lakers in '06. Even had the Mavs got it to 3-1, the Spurs had too much riding on that run to go out to such a mediocre team, in the 1st round.

If not for Tiago and Manu carrying us attacking Dirk, we don't make it past that series. It looked very, very dire at some point. That was also a great reminder how much matchups matter in the playoffs. To this day, we have not figured out Monta Ellis for some reason. Fortunately, I don't think we're playing Indiana anymore this season.

[baseline bum]

nevermind, read the post I was quoting wrong

[TD 21]

If not for Tiago and Manu carrying us attacking Dirk, we don't make it past that series. It looked very, very dire at some point. That was also a great reminder how much matchups matter in the playoffs. To this day, we have not figured out Monta Ellis for some reason. Fortunately, I don't think we're playing Indiana anymore this season.

That's the dumbest line in sports. If not for "(insert player(s) on the team and usually key ones), we'd have lost".

The Spurs were always making it past that series, no matter how many games it took. Not just because they were significantly better, but because, as I alluded to, they had significantly more riding on it.

Celtics-Hawks in '08 and Heat-Pacers in '13 are other examples of series that technically went 7, but it was obvious game 7 would be a start to finish blowout for the favorite.

[ElNono]

That's the dumbest line in sports. If not for "(insert player(s) on the team and usually key ones), we'd have lost".

The Spurs were always making it past that series, no matter how many games it took. Not just because they were significantly better, but because, as I alluded to, they had significantly more riding on it.

Celtics-Hawks in '08 and Heat-Pacers in '13 are other examples of series that technically went 7, but it was obvious game 7 would be a start to finish blowout for the favorite.

I tell you one thing about that series, when I saw Manu playing the way he was, I knew we were going to have a great playoff run...

[TD 21]

I tell you one thing about that series, when I saw Manu playing the way he was, I knew we were going to have a great playoff run...

He was probably narrowly better than Duncan in that series, but Duncan was the best player throughout the run and if the league renamed the Finals MVP, playoffs MVP, like they should, he'd have won it.

[ElNono]

He was probably narrowly better than Duncan in that series, but Duncan was the best player throughout the run and if the league renamed the Finals MVP, playoffs MVP, like they should, he'd have won it.

I still think our chances this season largely still lay in TD and Manu's hands... I know Kawhi and LMA will carry the load, and will likely put the best performances, scoring-wise... but there will be moments when we'll be in a lull, or some team might put the locks on either of those two, and it will be up to TD and Manu to lead out there... hopefully they can find a way...

[TD 21]

I still think our chances this season largely still lay in TD and Manu's hands... I know Kawhi and LMA will carry the load, and will likely put the best performances, scoring-wise... but there will be moments when we'll be in a lull, or some team might put the locks on either of those two, and it will be up to TD and Manu to lead out there... hopefully they can find a way...

They'll probably will themselves to at least a solid overall performance.

That being said, the way this team has evolved as the season has wore on, is both positive and negative. They needed Leonard and Aldridge to take ownership of the team, but in the process of that happening, the vast majority of the rest of the rotation fell off a cliff.

Once they got Martin, I thought all the necessary pierces were in place, so if 3 or 4 of them don't have it in a given game, 3 or 4 others will, but so far it's not playing out that way. It's damn near starting to like '08, when the big three and stout defense carried an aged supporting cast that was no longer good enough.

[Splits]

Like all of OP's threads, you have to read this as "how great is Manu, the best ever or the 2nd best ever"?

That said, I would like to thank SAGirl and cutewizard for the best night of my life.

3-ways FTW!

[ElNono]

They'll probably will themselves to at least a solid overall performance.

That being said, the way this team has evolved as the season has wore on, is both positive and negative. They needed Leonard and Aldridge to take ownership of the team, but in the process of that happening, the vast majority of the rest of the rotation fell off a cliff.

Once they got Martin, I thought all the necessary pierces were in place, so if 3 or 4 of them don't have it in a given game, 3 or 4 others will, but so far it's not playing out that way. It's damn near starting to like '08, when the big three and stout defense carried an aged supporting cast that was no longer good enough.

I'm giving Bobo and Patty the benefit of the doubt because 1) Patty has been great in the last two playoffs and 2) Bobo is known to coast. But Danny is concerning, tbh... I was hoping he'll find his stroke by now. If he can get semi-hot, I think we're going to be hard to beat.

[ElNono]

Like all of OP's threads, you have to read this as "how great is Manu, the best ever or the 2nd best ever"?

:lol come on son, legit thread, tbh... we're 76 games in, this team has been tearing NBA and franchise records left and right...

Just gauging opinions, some people think it's a weak league, some people think nothing matters if we don't win the lobt... all perfectly reasonable opinions

[Splits]

legit thread,

Not legit. Your fawning for Manu made it so. Illegitimate.

[ElNono]

Not legit. Your fawning for Manu made it so. Illegitimate.

:lol

[Spurtacular]

If they win, yeah...hard to argue for without a ring, but roster and talent wise...yeah..

Bean counter / Mainstream fan / fanboy. TBFH.

[Brazil]

If you like the Spurs, the sharing ball stuff, the beautiful game etc etc it has to be 2014 tbh...

[Brazil]

:lol oh and Splits (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8510143#post8510143) has a point tbh...

[Brazil]

oh and 2014 Spurs would sweep this 2016 Spurs tbh

[TD 21]

I'm giving Bobo and Patty the benefit of the doubt because 1) Patty has been great in the last two playoffs and 2) Bobo is known to coast. But Danny is concerning, tbh... I was hoping he'll find his stroke by now. If he can get semi-hot, I think we're going to be hard to beat.

Same. To be clear, this "rest of the rotation" is like the rich man's version of the '08 one, but the new two aren't as good as the big three were.

I can see both sides of the Green situation. On the one hand, they've accomplished what they have in spite of his poor shooting, so if he catches fire, barring a significant injury, they're probably winning the championship. On the other hand, he's obviously well past the point of a slump and they probably can't win the championship unless he catches fire.

[GSH]

05-06 brought the Spurs up one foul short of a 3-peat. Duncan, Manu, Parker, and Bowen at or near their primes. Finley shot right at .400 from the 3P, and Brent Barry did the same off the bench. Rasho, Nazr, and Fabbs as backup bigs. And Horry for playoff moments.

Out of all that, the presence of a prime Tim Duncan can't be over-estimated.

But this team is pretty damned good.

[GSH]

:lmao

7th best SG shooting 37% from the field and 33% from 3.

anyone still wondering if ElNono is a fucking moron?


He posts more good basketball takes in an evening than you have in your life, and he's been here forever.

You come here promising that the Jizz will "skull-fuck" the Spurs. And you want to call someone else a moron? Crawl back in your fucking hole.

[ElNono]

:lmao

7th best SG shooting 37% from the field and 33% from 3.

anyone still wondering if ElNono is a fucking moron?

:lmao Both better than Rodney Hood
:lmao giving the max to Hayward
:lmao turned the tv off

[tonight...you]

Best Regular Season Team, for sure.
We'll see how it goes from there.

[Arcadian]

It's an interesting discussion. We've had the Admiral era, the Twin Towers era, the Big Three era, the Beautiful Game era, and now the Dynamic Duo era (Leonard and Aldridge).

We've seen so many great Spurs teams.

[DMC]

It's hard to say. Any team who wins the ring is the best that year (most of the time). So when a team builds themselves to beat the team to beat, they are the best if they do it. It all then comes down to which other team had a better "team to beat" than the Heat, or the Cavs, or the Pistons, or the Nets, or the Knicks.

[Kidd K]

Can't say until the playoffs are over, so thus far no.

Better Spurs teams imo unless this year's team wins the title or at least makes the Finals to create the argument: 2005, 2012, 2013, 2014.

[SpursFan86]

The 2014 Spurs just got hot at the perfect time and really turned it up a notch once the postseason came around. Green/Belinelli/Kawhi/Mills/Diaw all shot 40+% from deep that run, and Manu wasn't far behind at 39%.

I've never seen a Spurs team (or any team, really) play at the level that team played at in the Finals. But I don't think that necessarily makes them the best Spurs team ever. Just means they picked the perfect time to get hot.


I can see both sides of the Green situation. On the one hand, they've accomplished what they have in spite of his poor shooting, so if he catches fire, barring a significant injury, they're probably winning the championship. On the other hand, he's obviously well past the point of a slump and they probably can't win the championship unless he catches fire.

Yep...part of me feels fairly good about it all, because they've been this good even with Green being damn near non-existent offensively. He can't really get any worse, so it can only get better in the postseason :lol However like you said, you can't write off 70+ games as a mere "slump". And I don't think we can beat GS with Danny shooting 30% from downtown.

Just have to hope to hell that he miraculously gets it together come playoffs. Think I saw him mention in an interview that he thinks the playoffs will help because you're typically more locked in and focused...let's hope he's right. We don't need him to shoot as well as he did in the 2013/2014 runs when he was well above 45%...even shooting 39-40% would be a huge improvement and would do wonders for this team.

[BillMc]

Is their D and point differential still NBA record breaking?

[Chomag]

Its close but i definitely think this is the best team talent wise.

[SpursforSix]

Think I saw him mention in an interview that he thinks the playoffs will help because you're typically more locked in and focused...

That's not encouraging if that's his attitude. iT sounds like someone grasping at straws and doesn't know what the real problem is.

[Rob123]

Hell no. The Warriors and Spurs have inflated records because everyone else freaking sucks. Have you watched other basketball teams try and play basketball? It's literally almost painful. Teams that are doing semi decent like the Jazz are only doing well because they have the best athletes to out athlete other teams or teams like the Clippers, Thunder, and Cavs have the best players to throw at a situation. When it comes to actual execution and ya know basketball skills the Warriors and Spurs are just so far ahead of what everyone else is doing right now that it's literally not even possible to make a comparison.

[will_spurs]

Is their D and point differential still NBA record breaking?

D I believe not, I think some previous Spurs teams (among others) were better.

Point differential IIRC yes.

[Arcadian]

The Warriors and Spurs have inflated records because everyone else freaking sucks. Have you watched other basketball teams try and play basketball? It's literally almost painful.

:lol You might be right, but these are professional basketball teams we're talking about here... How can they be so bad?

[BillMc]

D I believe not, I think some previous Spurs teams (among others) were better.

Point differential IIRC yes.

Cheers. Thanks for the clarification.

[NameLess Scrub]

Even if they win a championship, we'll have to factor in how silly they make Lebron's team look.

They're gonna need to top 2014 on that.

[Dex]

As long as Duncan rings.

[rmt]

This year's team is the most talented but it hasn't rung yet so my vote is still for 2005 Spurs - big 3 in their prime, deep, versatile. 2007's role players were a little long in the tooth.

[Splits]

:lol

I am so in love with you.

I also didn't know you vaped.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol You might be right, but these are professional basketball teams we're talking about here... How can they be so bad?

The Blazers lost their 4 of their starting lineup; the Mavericks struck out badly in free agency; the Rockets got rid of Josh Smith and came out flat, getting their coach fired; Memphis and New Orleans are fucking MASH units; the Suns, Timberwolves and Lakers are competing for ping pong balls.

Nine teams last year won 45 or more games in the west. This year, it'll probably be four teams.

[Arcadian]

Also I just want to say, fuck everyone who said the Spurs were "done" as early as 2008. Eight years later, we're still having this conversation. (Mostly referring to the media, but also some faggots on the forum)

[CGD]

I'm with the camp that says that the wins record is inflated by a weaken league, especially teams 3-6 in the West.

[Rob123]

:lol You might be right, but these are professional basketball teams we're talking about here... How can they be so bad?

Everyone else is so bad because they don't have the infrastructure the Spurs and warriors have now. Teams are run by the players and prima Donna star players get away with murder. Aside from that a reliance on athletiscism instead of basketball iq has sunk most teams futures. It only takes a few pick up games at the local gym to realize that Michael Jordan has ruined basketball and even lacrosse. In my experience playing lacrosse at a very high level in college the teams that beat us played just like the Spurs while my team and most others relied on the greatness of one or two players to get it done which is not sustainable. Team games are just that, team games, and the Spurs and warriors understand that while everyone else is just groping around in the dark.

[SAGirl]

It can only be decided in the postseason.
If we win a championship, then we are in consideration.
It's a great defensive team and probably the deepest. Prior teams always had unplayable guys at the end of the bench. In this team there are no unplayable guys. End of rotation players like Bonner, Boban and Simmons can give a few minutes of quality play. Boban and Simmons are projects with potential so they kill benches in garbage time. It's made for a great point differential.

But it doesn't mean anything if you don't ring and for that maybe the depth isn't as important as whether the top players can dominate.

[YGWHI]

In 2014 or even 2013, the Spurs won games against good teams like Bulls, young GSW...resting the Big 3.

Sadly, our 2016 supporting cast isn't as good as I thought.

[spursistan]

All the doubters and naysayers who expressed a "something seems off about this team" feeling were more or less right--even if they salvage this series..

I think they are a good team --their defensive Peak is historical indeed-- but it is clear that they have fattened the record by beating up on mediocre competition in a down year for the league (especially early in the season)..

Their lack of signature/dominant wins against Top 5 teams all year along was pretty ominous..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

HELL NO

[timtonymanu]

Yep, product of a shitty, low talent NBA season. The fact that Heat/Raptors and Thunder could be in the final 4 just confirms that. And like was said above, Spurs didn't have one dominating win on the road against the top teams in the regular season. Even the 2010 Spurs had more impressive late season wins.

[DMC]

Not bad for basically a 1st year team considering LMA, West and Fathead are fairly new. There's also Simmons, Martin and Miller, Boban and for a time, Rasual Butler. These guys never played together but somehow they won a lot of games. The vets contributed less this season than ever before. All in all it's a pretty decent transition year, if that's what it is. It could be worse.

[Harry Callahan]

Clearly not.

[Budkin]

Welp.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yep, product of a shitty, low talent NBA season. The fact that Heat/Raptors and Thunder could be in the final 4 just confirms that. And like was said above, Spurs didn't have one dominating win on the road against the top teams in the regular season. Even the 2010 Spurs had more impressive late season wins.

FINALLY.

I've been saying this all season. This Spurs team couldn't hold a candle to 2013 or 14, or 2005 and 2007. The offense was never good enough and the defense goes MIA at times.

I admired this year's team but something always felt off about them.

[Harry Callahan]

Not bad for basically a 1st year team considering LMA, West and Fathead are fairly new. There's also Simmons, Martin and Miller, Boban and for a time, Rasual Butler. These guys never played together but somehow they won a lot of games. The vets contributed less this season than ever before. All in all it's a pretty decent transition year, if that's what it is. It could be worse.

I agree - LMA and KL can win a lot of games for you next year. Unfortunately, the decline of the big 3 this year has been too much to overcome. Those three guys could put so much pressure on an opponent in the past. Now they are now just above average players when healthy - not their fault, this is just a fact.

[timtonymanu]

FINALLY.

I've been saying this all season. This Spurs team couldn't hold a candle to 2013 or 14, or 2005 and 2007. The offense was never good enough and the defense goes MIA at times.

I admired this year's team but something always felt off about them.

I thought the Spurs would get their wake up call against the Dubs which would have been acceptable with the season GS is having, but it's happening against fucking OKC :lol. The 2012 and 2014 Spurs would have easily beaten this 2016 Thunder team.

Not even that regular season win against the Dubs was impressive considering Iggy, Bogut, and Ezeli were all out and the Splash Bros were a no show and the Spurs still barely escaped.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I thought the Spurs would get their wake up call against the Dubs which would have been acceptable with the season GS is having, but it's happening against fucking OKC :lol. The 2012 and 2014 Spurs would have easily beaten this 2016 Thunder team.

Not even that regular season win against the Dubs was impressive considering Iggy, Bogut, and Ezeli were all out and the Splash Bros were a no show and the Spurs still barely escaped.

That was the scariest thing about that game man. We forced the dubs to play exactly to the tempo we liked, made them shoot like crap, and they were missing players...and we barely won.

Even when the Dubs didn't break 93 points in the second matchup in SA and shot like shit...they still won. I HATE OKC, but I may have to take some solace in the fact that had we faced Golden State, it may be a little bit like the 2001 Lakers series.

[timtonymanu]

That was the scariest thing about that game man. We forced the dubs to play exactly to the tempo we liked, made them shoot like crap, and they were missing players...and we barely won.

Even when the Dubs didn't break 93 points in the second matchup in SA and shot like shit...they still won. I HATE OKC, but I may have to take some solace in the fact that had we faced Golden State, it may be a little bit like the 2001 Lakers series.

Yeah probably better for the NBA to see Thunder/Warriors. Would be a sweep but it would be four competitive games. The way we play, Dubs would get off to a quick 15-0 run.

I just hope the 67 win season doesn't fool PATFO to mostly stand pat. They desperately need upgrades. Keeping leftovers from the 2014 team isn't an option anymore.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yeah probably better for the NBA to see Thunder/Warriors. Would be a sweep but it would be four competitive games. The way we play, Dubs would get off to a quick 15-0 run.

I just hope the 67 win season doesn't fool PATFO to mostly stand pat. They desperately need upgrades. Keeping leftovers from the 2014 team isn't an option anymore.

Yup, especially our backcourt which desperately needs to be overhauled.

Wish we were somehow able to keep Belli

[timtonymanu]

Yup, especially our backcourt which desperately needs to be overhauled.

Wish we were somehow able to keep Belli

Beli for his offense for sure but imo CoJo was the bigger loss, especially the way he's been breathing life into the choking Raptors and DeFrozen.

[Harry Callahan]

The Western Conference is much worse this year. The Spurs took advantage in the RS. But this is the playoffs and there's not much you can do when the Thunderefs decide to show up.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Beli for his offense for sure but imo CoJo was the bigger loss, especially the way he's been breathing life into the choking Raptors and DeFrozen.

Don't have to tell me about it, I was at Game 2 of the Raptors series and while it was fun....it was also some of the worst basketball I've ever seen. :lol

[Hoops Czar]

Kawhi's team two years in a row managed to beat a defenseless piece of dog shit Grizzlies team and that's it. Congrats to the Spurs new hero.

[hater]

:lol ElN:loln:lol with another massive failure :lol

[Gervin44Silas13]

The Western Conference is much worse this year. The Spurs took advantage in the RS. But this is the playoffs and there's not much you can do when the Thunderefs decide to show up.

Cant blame the refs our team shit the bed period

[Obstructed_View]

This Spurs team couldn't hold a candle to 2013 or 14, or 2005 and 2007.

And '99 and '03 were better than all the ones you mentioned.

[Obstructed_View]

Cant blame the refs our team shit the bed period

You can blame the refs for one game, but the last two fourth quarters are on the Spurs. It's like .4 or the backdoor sweep by the Thunder. Somehow the team just lost their heart and stopped showing up.

[ElNono]

:lol ElN:loln:lol with another massive failure :lol

:lol why don't you read the OP, tbh? Nobody guaranteed a championship. :rolleyes

As bad as they look right now, they hold the record for wins in franchise history.

That said, in hindsight, 2014 was better, no doubt about it in my mind, and probably 2003 with a young team too.

[ElNono]

:lmao

wont even make the conference finals

:lmao

:lmao

didn't even make the playoffs

:lmao

That core doe :lmao

[spursistan]

I would argue this team isn't even better than the 2012/2013 ones who lost in WCF/Finals...

Folks tried to downplay their mediocre performance against the league elite, but it was a harbinger of their fool's goldeness..

[spursistan]

IMO..this is the 2004 team all over again..a great defensive squad with an inadequate 1-2 offensive punch..Kawhi/LMA being the 2016 TD/Parker..Nobody stepped up after Phil adjusted to TP penetration and here the same story LMA slowly fading after G1/G2..

[spursistan]

731503815413764097

2014 team team :lol.

[AFMadison]

ElNono just covers all boundaries. For everything he says there is an exact opposite thread he's created somewhere lost within the forum.

Edit: Sorry ElNono, I confused you with Hater :lol

[ElNono]

ElNono just covers all boundaries. For everything he says there is an exact opposite thread he's created somewhere lost within the forum.

Edit: Sorry ElNono, I confused you with Hater :lol

:lol it's all good. But, some people need to reconcile the "OMG this team won a franchise best 67 games" with the trainwreck that was the OKC series, tbh...

Either this team was historically great or the NBA was just a mess that fooled us all... pretty clear in hindsight it was the latter...

[PingPong]

2016 = San Antonio Trailblazers.

:lol

[baseline bum]

:lol it's all good. But, some people need to reconcile the "OMG this team won a franchise best 67 games" with the trainwreck that was the OKC series, tbh...

Either this team was historically great or the NBA was just a mess that fooled us all... pretty clear in hindsight it was the latter...

This team would have been great had Duncan not screwed his good knee up. I still don't think they would have beaten Golden State though, this year's Warriors is the nastiest team I have seen in more than 30 years following the NBA religiously.

[AFMadison]

:lol it's all good. But, some people need to reconcile the "OMG this team won a franchise best 67 games" with the trainwreck that was the OKC series, tbh...

Either this team was historically great or the NBA was just a mess that fooled us all... pretty clear in hindsight it was the latter...
Agreed

[barbacoataco]

A lot of it is being healthy at the end of the year.

[YGWHI]

6 weeks ago...

In 2014 or even 2013, the Spurs won games against good teams like Bulls, young GSW...resting the Big 3.

Sadly, our 2016 supporting cast isn't as good as I thought.

This was our biggest issue in playoffs.

The Spurs sacrificed depth last summer...It didn't end well.

[K...]

6 weeks ago...


This was our biggest issue in playoffs.

The Spurs sacrificed depth last summer...It didn't end well.

The alternative to that though is also terrible (splitter, cojo stay, everyone else gets older)

The offense would still be kawhi iso.since cojo isn't a great ball handler, but at least he's not Parker right?


For a season in which we are transitioning, it was ok, second season, several records, losing in the second round.



It was only a disappointment if you assume this was a send off season for the old guys

[SAGirl]

I stated this somewhere else but this felt like a transition year to me. We overachieved in the RS in the back of a historic defense, but offensively, we had a Frankenstein of a team: a mish-mash of what the old spurs were with another mish-mash of what they want to be. Not quite one thing or the other.

[hater]

:lmao

wont even make the conference finals

:lmao

:lol