The Tony Parker Thread

[DMC]

So Danny hustles against Toronto and steals the ball in transition, tight ropes the baseline, saves the ball, makes a long cross court pass back in transition to Parker who proceeds to dribble it off his foot and turn it over.

What's up with Tony? He's playing at half speed, telegraphing his passes and seems to be "painting by numbers" on the court (meaning he's going to specific predetermined spots and living with the results instead of creating). Without his speed and quickness, what is Tony Parker to the Spurs? What does he do for them? You cannot argue with the record, but what does Tony's future look like if he has a poor showing in the playoffs again (3rd consecutive season)?

[spursistan]

His turnover rate has spiked in the past month..he had < or = 2 TOs in 14 of his last 17 games despite barely playing over 30 minutes in those games, not to mention shooting over .50 in only 5 games...he's regressed mightily from Nov-January level and he is headed to an ugly end to his season for third constitutive year after a promising start.

[apalisoc_9]

Sulking because of new role

[gambit1990]

the ball moves more and he's aged worse than duncan and ginobili. duncan can still play d and ginobili is still the best passer in the league... parker's greatest talent was his speed. he was a scorer, not a shooter or one with court vision. anecdotal, but i feel like this season he's missed some easy lay ups. his step has been lost imo.

i appreciate what he's done for the franchise, there was a time when we needed him. we don't anymore.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255957

[cd98]

I think he's adjusting to his new role as a facilitator. He's passing more than ever and not looking for his own shot through most of the game. That can lead to more turnovers. That said, he made some big shots in the 4th quarter to help stop the Raptors. I would hold off writing his obituary. He's still fast by NBA standards, but not inhumanly fast like he was 5 years ago.

[gambit1990]

just thought of a new drinking game: when parker takes 10 seconds off the shot clock before making his first pass of the possession, that's a shot.

[SouthernFried]

just thought of a new drinking game: when parker takes 10 seconds off the shot clock before making his first pass of the possession, that's a shot.

You wouldn't make it past the halfway point of the first quarter. That seems to be Tony's major attribute this season...slowing the game down. Waay down.

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

You wouldn't make it past the halfway point of the first quarter. That seems to be Tony's major attribute this season...slowing the game down. Waay down.
That's the Spurs style...

[gambit1990]

You wouldn't make it past the halfway point of the first quarter. That seems to be Tony's major attribute this season...slowing the game down. Waay down.
exactly. it's a problem. and if we're gonna play at a slow tempo we're better off with miller.

[apalisoc_9]

exactly. it's a problem. and if we're gonna play at a slow tempo we're better off with miller.

Parker is part of the committee and while his biggest flaw (hero ball) is frustrating and can lose you a series, hes there biggest hes experienced at trying to make shots out of nothing when the flow or a set call generates no offense. Hes still valuable. The key for him is to know when not to hero ball and when to take advantage of the opportunuties he gets when teams start reacting to Leonard and aldridge.

[DMC]

When Tony switched from "create" to "run the offense" he became mechanical, robotic, predictable. You can see he basically goes through the motions but he's not accustomed to getting that deep into the paint without at least attempting a shot. These days he gets in there and has to find a bail out pass which often results in a turnover. The problem with baseline passes under the rim that result in turnovers is that the ball is intercepted out ahead of the majority of the pack already, and usually leads to a transition bucket at the other end.

I don't know what the answer is. Pop still wants to have Tony trying to get to the rim to open up the shooters and then he wants Tony to slow the game down, then speed it up. Tony is good at the slowing down part, as long as he can be methodical and robotic, he's ok. When he tries to improvise these days bad things happen.

[SouthernFried]

Tony's "slow" style, seems to have nothing to do with running the offense or the "spurs style." He slowly dribbles to the 3 point line, passes it, then hides somewhere. He's not involved in any way on the offensive end. What "style" of basketball is that? Hell, Kyle can do that much...and he's a natural at it. :lol

[FkLA]

LakerHater

Can we get a gif of the sequence when the ball slipped out of Porker's hand (too much popcorn while on the bench most likely) then he starts backpedaling to get on defense and falls (his foot probably gave out from carrying all that weight)? I wanna say it was in the 4th Qtr but not 100% sure.

[ElNono]

Thanks DMC for bringing this up... I can't do it anymore, I get labeled a hater or something... I want Tony to look great, tbh, he just isn't right, IMO

I'm sure somebody is going to bring up 38 y/o Manu to deflect, but if you gotta compare a 33 year old to a 38 year old, you're kinda making the point...

[Hoops Czar]

Coasting*

[LakerHater]

LakerHater (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4302)

Can we get a gif of the sequence when the ball slipped out of Porker's hand (too much popcorn while on the bench most likely) then he starts backpedaling to get on defense and falls (his foot probably gave out from carrying all that weight)? I wanna say it was in the 4th Qtr but not 100% sure.I dont have the game but, if ya gotta clip I'll make for ya.

[NASpurs]

Pop is obviously trying to get Parker and Duncan going by running a two-man between them to start off games which explains the slow starts but that shit isn't going to work in the playoffs.

[100%duncan]

inb4 lock

[spurraider21]

as long as he finishes above 45% from the field

[dabom]

inb4 lock

:lol

[TD 21]

Thanks DMC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20665) for bringing this up... I can't do it anymore, I get labeled a hater or something... I want Tony to look great, tbh, he just isn't right, IMO

I'm sure somebody is going to bring up 38 y/o Manu to deflect, but if you gotta compare a 33 year old to a 38 year old, you're kinda making the point...

I can't tell if this is serious or shtick. If it's the former, I hate to sound cliche, but it's not the age, it's the miles. Parker broke in at 19 and has always logged significantly more minutes than Ginobili. He was/is also more speed/quickness reliant.

Considering his size or lack thereof, where Parker is at mileage wise relative to his age, there's no precedent for this in the history of the league, so attempting to compare him to anyone else is silly.

[dabom]

I can't tell if this is serious or shtick. If it's the former, I hate to sound cliche, but it's not the age, it's the miles. Parker broke in at 19 and has always logged significantly more minutes than Ginobili. He was/is also more speed/quickness reliant.

Considering his size or lack thereof, where Parker is at mileage wise relative to his age, there's no precedent for this in the history of the league, so attempting to compare him to anyone else is silly.

You can have no mileage and be 50 and be slow as fuck. Age is a factor here. Age 33 and 38 with comparable miles, the 38 year old has a harder time. edit. :lol

[lefty]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Pq31kHa0MDWuc/giphy.gif

[ElNono]

I can't tell if this is serious or shtick. If it's the former, I hate to sound cliche, but it's not the age, it's the miles. Parker broke in at 19 and has always logged significantly more minutes than Ginobili. He was/is also more speed/quickness reliant.

Considering his size or lack thereof, where Parker is at mileage wise relative to his age, there's no precedent for this in the history of the league, so attempting to compare him to anyone else is silly.

I'm a guy that mentioned he would be the guy that will have the biggest problem adapting his game out of the big 3... but some people waved that off, that he would build a jumper, etc... it's never that easy. Guys like Tim or Manu just have a feel for the game that you can't teach, you could tell they would age more gracefully... but to this day, some posters think I'm trolling when I say something like that...

[gambit1990]

spurs are 7-1 without parker this season.

the lone loss was against okc. when td, manu, kawhi, and lma didn't play.

[TD 21]

You can have no mileage and be 50 and be slow as fuck. Age is a factor here. Age 33 and 38 with comparable miles, the 38 year old has a harder time. edit. :lol

What I'm saying is, considering Parker's mileage, he damn near is the equivalent of a 38 year old.

I seriously doubt Ginobili's overseas mileage make up the difference between their NBA mileage and on top of that, I'm pretty sure Parker has represented his country more, too.



I'm a guy that mentioned he would be the guy that will have the biggest problem adapting his game out of the big 3... but some people waved that off, that he would build a jumper, etc... it's never that easy. Guys like Tim or Manu just have a feel for the game that you can't teach, you could tell they would age more gracefully... but to this day, some posters think I'm trolling when I say something like that...

He may not be Duncan, Ginobili, Diaw, etc., when it comes to feel for the game, but far too many Spurs fans make it seem as if he's some low IQ player, which is not at all the case.

[SAGirl]

Parker is part of the committee and while his biggest flaw (hero ball) is frustrating and can lose you a series, hes there biggest hes experienced at trying to make shots out of nothing when the flow or a set call generates no offense. Hes still valuable. The key for him is to know when not to hero ball and when to take advantage of the opportunuties he gets when teams start reacting to Leonard and aldridge.
Agreed. He will be valuable, may even have a throwback game if they underestimate him and start helping off him. Another one who may need to rise is Tim. They might force the ball away from LmA and into Tim. They will be up to it. Danny is the question mark bc he's either on or he's not.

Our bench is a bit of a concern bc they need Diaw to be better and he's been garbage lately again and both Mills and Manu are streaky shooting + Pop plays them with Danny who is streaky too. D west is ready though. Kyle to me is a kind of floater, he may see different lineups and spots and be in or out depending what is going on, likely how Danny is playing, how Diaw is playing, and his own play. I don't see him strictly as a bench fixture.

Martin, although I haven't really liked him may see time occasionally bc of his 3. I don't think he won Pop over but if Danny doesn't have the 3 going and you can spare it defensively, a time may come that Pop tries Martin out there specially if LMA and Kawhi draw doubles and no one is making a 3 in the SL.

[DMC]

What I'm saying is, considering Parker's mileage, he damn near is the equivalent of a 38 year old.

I seriously doubt Ginobili's overseas mileage make up the difference between their NBA mileage and on top of that, I'm pretty sure Parker has represented his country more, too.




He may not be Duncan, Ginobili, Diaw, etc., when it comes to feel for the game, but far too many Spurs fans make it seem as if he's some low IQ player, which is not at all the case.
The "why" isn't nearly as important to this discussion as is the "is". It seems everyone is in agreement that Tony is a borderline liability, maybe worse. If he has a poor showing in the playoffs where he's obviously not "coasting", do you think he still gets the starting nod next season over basically anyone else? We don't have anyone on the team I'd want starting over him right now, but that's because we don't have a true PG other than 40 year old Miller. Patty is good, but he's not good enough to start on a team that needs to have a 2 speed attack. You cannot go from fast to faster when you go to your bench and Patty doesn't get to the rim very well.

Tony just isn't fooling anyone these days. He's getting shut down by even pedestrian level bigs.

[apalisoc_9]

What I'm saying is, considering Parker's mileage, he damn near is the equivalent of a 38 year old.

I seriously doubt Ginobili's overseas mileage make up the difference between their NBA mileage and on top of that, I'm pretty sure Parker has represented his country more, too.




He may not be Duncan, Ginobili, Diaw, etc., when it comes to feel for the game, but far too many Spurs fans make it seem as if he's some low IQ player, which is not at all the case.

His game just doesnt age too well. Hes always been a speedy guard. What's he supposed to do now that he isnt? The main thing about Parker is that he doesnt turn the ball over like crazy and he knows how to run a slower paced team.

Ginobili has the luxury to play a lesser role and so does duncan offensively. Hes frustrating because even though hes part of the committe now, he still the third guy they rely on to find buckets.

Its not fair to.compare the two at this point...I think that once tonys role diminishes even more to a mere 25mpg game, hell probably look better.

[SAGirl]

Thanks DMC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20665) for bringing this up... I can't do it anymore, I get labeled a hater or something... I want Tony to look great, tbh, he just isn't right, IMO

I'm sure somebody is going to bring up 38 y/o Manu to deflect, but if you gotta compare a 33 year old to a 38 year old, you're kinda making the point...
You don't strike me as a hater type, though you have your favorites same as most everyone here, but you don't strike me as a guy who wants anybody else but your favorite to do well, which is a shtick some "fans" here have, but I haven't seen that for you. I am critical of others too but I am never wishing guys straight up fail.

I actually think Manu is key. When he's not playing well that bench can't pick it up. They haven't gone back to how consistently great they were to start the season and I can't put a finger on why that is, bc it wasn't Kyle (I suspect you will bring him up), he's gotten better through the season actually and he wasn't hampering them earlier. I tend to think Manu started super hot and playing well and is not fully back to 100% after that injury. But I am not sure if that is it. Diaw has been playing very poorly too.

[TD 21]

The "why" isn't nearly as important to this discussion as is the "is". It seems everyone is in agreement that Tony is a borderline liability, maybe worse. If he has a poor showing in the playoffs where he's obviously not "coasting", do you think he still gets the starting nod next season over basically anyone else? We don't have anyone on the team I'd want starting over him right now, but that's because we don't have a true PG other than 40 year old Miller. Patty is good, but he's not good enough to start on a team that needs to have a 2 speed attack. You cannot go from fast to faster when you go to your bench and Patty doesn't get to the rim very well.

Tony just isn't fooling anyone these days. He's getting shut down by even pedestrian level bigs.

Absolutely. But even if Parker plays well and/or they win the championship, I suspect finding a point guard in the mold of Joseph will be top priority this off season, unless Duncan retires.

It won't be to usurp Parker. It'll be to have someone to guard the physical specimen type point guards and to start grooming someone who can at least eventually become a stop gap option when Parker retires.



His game just doesnt age too well. Hes always been a speedy guard. What's he supposed to do now that he isnt? The main thing about Parker is that he doesnt turn the ball over like crazy and he knows how to run a slower paced team.

Ginobili has the luxury to play a lesser role and so does duncan offensively. Hes frustrating because even though hes part of the committe now, he still the third guy they rely on to find buckets.

Its not fair to.compare the two at this point...I think that once tonys role diminishes even more to a mere 25mpg game, hell probably look better.

In a way, Ginobili plays a bigger role offensively, since he's basically still the go-to option off the bench. This is why his usage is basically the same as what it's been in recent years, while Duncan's and Parker's have fallen off significantly.

Parker has the most difficult offensive role because he has to essentially cede the offense to Leonard and Aldridge, while still getting his and he has to do it in limited minutes.

I don't know that chopping off another 2 mpg is going to make a difference, when he's already down at 27 mpg. He just got 2 games off and didn't look any better afterwards. There's no magic elixir here, but the pattern has been established. He'll start strong, then fade once the games pile up.

[DMC]

You moved the goal posts and then tried to answer way down the road to retirement. I said if he has a poor showing, not if the Spurs win the ring. If Tony has the ability to still be that effective all bets are off.

[TD 21]

You moved the goal posts and then tried to answer way down the road to retirement. I said if he has a poor showing, not if the Spurs win the ring. If Tony has the ability to still be that effective all bets are off.

Even if he has a poor showing, yes, definitely.

[Splits]

You don't strike me as a hater type, though you have your favorites same as most everyone here, but you don't strike me as a guy who wants anybody else but your favorite to do well, which is a shtick some "fans" here have, but I haven't seen that for you. I am critical of others too but I am never wishing guys straight up fail.

I actually think Manu is key. When he's not playing well that bench can't pick it up. They haven't gone back to how consistently great they were to start the season and I can't put a finger on why that is, bc it wasn't Kyle (I suspect you will bring him up), he's gotten better through the season actually and he wasn't hampering them earlier. I tend to think Manu started super hot and playing well and is not fully back to 100% after that injury. But I am not sure if that is it. Diaw has been playing very poorly too.

:lmao you haven't been paying attention. EN is a Manu homer, nothing more and nothing less. He will literally chew Manu's gumdrop no matter the outcome. He thought the Dirk foul was good D! :lmao

It's all he does.

[ElNono]

He may not be Duncan, Ginobili, Diaw, etc., when it comes to feel for the game, but far too many Spurs fans make it seem as if he's some low IQ player, which is not at all the case.

He's not low IQ at all, IMO, he's just a guy that will never translate his game to more of a playmaker or a jump shooter... he's just going to have to find new ways to finish near the rim.. he used to have a money floater for the longest time, and for some reason it has disappeared. I want him to do well, we could always use another experienced guy doing well.

[dabom]

:lmao you haven't been paying attention. EN is a Manu homer, nothing more and nothing less. He will literally chew Manu's gumdrop no matter the outcome. He thought the Dirk foul was good D! :lmao

It's all he does.

You'd lick porker's sweat if he wanted to. :lmao

[Splits]

You'd lick porker's sweat if he wanted to. :lmao

Please tell me in what universe that statement makes any sense.

EN sucking the ballsweat off of Manu? It's a daily routine.

[ElNono]

:lmao you haven't been paying attention. EN is a Manu homer, nothing more and nothing less. He will literally chew Manu's gumdrop no matter the outcome. He thought the Dirk foul was good D! :lmao

It's all he does.

:lol definitely a homer and my favorite Spur, tbh, a guy I was fortunate to meet in person many times, but I never put him over the team. When he sucked in 2013, I said so, no excuses, even said he might retire. I never said the foul on Dirk was good D, I simply said the Spurs had more options to win that game after that foul, and that we largely were in that game thanks to Manu in the first place, little things that fans forget over a single play.

I don't hate anybody and I always hope our players do well. I do run some schtick here and there with Parker fans, but they even know it's a schtick (ask Brazil). I want our players to do well, and when I think they're not doing well, I just say it.

Manu just happens to be very, very good, and has done a whole lot of great things for this franchise, even this team this season, which makes it very easy to root for. And I'm hardly alone in that sentiment in here, IMO.

[ElNono]

You'd lick porker's sweat if he wanted to. :lmao

:lol I don't think Splits is a Parkerstan, tbh...

[Splits]

:lol definitely a homer and my favorite Spur, tbh, a guy I was fortunate to meet in person many times, but I never put him over the team. When he sucked in 2013, I said so, no excuses, even said he might retire. I never said the foul on Dirk was good D, I simply said the Spurs had more options to win that game after that foul, and that we largely were in that game thanks to Manu in the first place, little things that fans forget over a single play.

I don't hate anybody and I always hope our players do well. I do run some schtick here and there with Parker fans, but they even know it's a schtick (ask Brazil). I want our players to do well, and when I think they're not doing well, I just say it.

Manu just happens to be very, very good, and has done a whole lot of great things for this franchise, even this team this season, which makes it very easy to root for. And I'm hardly alone in that sentiment in here, IMO.

Damnnnnnnnnn

That's some defensive ass shit (understandably so). We have 7 rings if not for Manu's bullshit.

[dabom]

:lol I don't think Splits is a Parkerstan, tbh...

Suggestions?

[Splits]

:lol I don't think Splits is a Parkerstan, tbh...

You got 1 thing right.

[ElNono]

Damnnnnnnnnn

That's some defensive ass shit (understandably so). We have 7 rings if not for Manu's bullshit.

It's all true, you can go through my post history at the time, you'll find it... We don't have 5 rings if not for Manu's brilliance either... glass half full/empty, I guess.

[ElNono]

Suggestions?

Splits is alright, fellow vaper and always putting in work on Stale Dale, tbh... he might not like the fact I'm a Manu homer tho, that's ok, tbh... :lol

[AZK619]

Tony mentally checks out at times. Just hoping he doesn't do that in the playoffs, tbh.

[dabom]

Splits is alright, fellow vaper and always putting in work on Stale Dale, tbh... he might not like the fact I'm a Manu homer tho, that's ok, tbh... :lol

I just got a hit from Urban Dictionary on that.

"stale dale (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stale+dale&defid=2561197)One who sleeps with multiple women without washing his cock.
Or the name of the soiled cock."

Homo right?

[ElNono]

I just got a hit from Urban Dictionary on that.

"stale dale (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stale+dale&defid=2561197)One who sleeps with multiple women without washing his cock.
Or the name of the soiled cock."

Homo right?

didn't even know it was slang :lmao

Stale Dale is what some peeps call Thread downstairs...

[SAGirl]

:lmao you haven't been paying attention. EN is a Manu homer, nothing more and nothing less. He will literally chew Manu's gumdrop no matter the outcome. He thought the Dirk foul was good D! :lmao

It's all he does. I have my favorites too, but I kind of sympathize with Nono bc even when he dislikes my guy for example, he's not a guy who will be wishing others flat out flunk. Or maybe I misread that?
I know Manu can do no wrong by him. I cut Anderson more slack than anyone too. It doesn't mean when I am wishing others ill and he didn't strike me as that. That was all I meant.

Although believe you me I am aware how partial he's to Manu and how critical he's of others.

[Kawhitstorm]

He should just pray the Spurs play the Mavs in the 1st rd & the Blazers in the 2nd rd b/c he's going to get flambeed in the WCF.:lol

[will_spurs]

Parker is being cast in an impossible position.

Pop has decided to slow down the pace (will be useful against GSW which is basically the only team Pop cares about) but fans complain he doesn't bring the ball up the court fast enough. Hint: we're not playing SSOL (against the Warriors starters at least). Against the bench the strategy might be quite different depending on whether they can follow a run and gun game or not.

Parker had to adapt from a "head of the snake" role (where he would penetrate and then either score or pass to an open elite 3pt shooter) to assisting a dynamic duo of LMA and Kawhi on a team that suddenly barely has any 3pt shooter worth mentioning. If he defers to them, he's labeled passive, a waste of a roster spot and so on. If he doesn't, he's heroballing. That's an impossible equation, and it would be the same regardless of the PG. Actually any other guy the Spurs put in his shoes as a starter isn't doing any better (or sometimes noticeably worse). You can find people like ElNono stating that Parker doesn't score at the rim any more, hasn't developed a jumper (WTF his jumper has always been good), and probably hasn't developed a 3pt game. Yet he is shooting .498 this season, .406 from 3 (clearly the best of his career and breaking news: over .400 from 3 is quite good). His per36 asists are better than his carer average, his turnovers per36 are the lowest of his career. People say he can't adapt to a reduced tole because of his ego yet he's taking far fewer shots than in the past.

Whatever he does, people here focus only on the negatives. It's easy to build any kind of narrative, however false, this way.

[dabom]

I wonder what was Enrique's 3point percentage in the playoffs last year. :lmao

[ElNono]

You can find people like ElNono stating that Parker doesn't score at the rim any more, hasn't developed a jumper (WTF his jumper has always been good), and probably hasn't developed a 3pt game. Yet he is shooting .498 this season, .406 from 3 (clearly the best of his career and breaking news: over .400 from 3 is quite good). His per36 asists are better than his carer average, his turnovers per36 are the lowest of his career. People say he can't adapt to a reduced tole because of his ego yet he's taking far fewer shots than in the past.

:lol he's taken 64 3s this season. He's not 'transitioning' into a 3 point shooter. Over 90% of his shots are 2P attempts. BTW, the best of his career was last season at .427 (except for the playoffs).

You look at his shooting and where he's taking his shots, and it's in-line with all his career. Paint rules (32%), long 2s (27%)... I didn't say his shooting is bad, but he's not really 'changing' where his shots are coming from.

My main concern with Tony this season has been his struggles in the past couple of months. This is the 2nd season he starts with a bang in November, and by around this time looks completely gassed. And it's worrying because he's one of three people on the team that can handle the ball with any kind of security. I want November Tony back, I just don't know if he's going to be there.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol he's taken 64 3s this season. He's not 'transitioning' into a 3 point shooter. Over 90% of his shots are 2P attempts. BTW, the best of his career was last season at .427 (except for the playoffs).

You look at his shooting and where he's taking his shots, and it's in-line with all his career. Paint rules (32%), long 2s (27%)... I didn't say his shooting is bad, but he's not really 'changing' where his shots are coming from.

My main concern with Tony this season has been his struggles in the past couple of months. This is the 2nd season he starts with a bang in November, and by around this time looks completely gassed. And it's worrying because he's one of three people on the team that can handle the ball with any kind of security. I want November Tony back, I just don't know if he's going to be there.

Mills and Parker are by far the worst PG rotation in the league for assist to turnover ratio.

[Brazil]

Parker is part of the committee and while his biggest flaw (hero ball) is frustrating and can lose you a series, hes there biggest hes experienced at trying to make shots out of nothing when the flow or a set call generates no offense. Hes still valuable. The key for him is to know when not to hero ball and when to take advantage of the opportunuties he gets when teams start reacting to Leonard and aldridge.

Good post that pretty much summarized a bit of everything.

In the fourth agaisnt raptors it has been a one man show to feed the score board... Kawhi went just perfect :wow 3/3 FG, 8/8 FTs and 1 assist... he scored by himself 14 pts over 31 (29 if you don't consider the last FTs by Mills when game was out of reach for Toronto) and assisted a FG for Aldridge. Parker entered with 7 mn to go and scored 6 points 2/4 FG and a couple of FTs, next contributor was Mills with 5 points including those last FTs.

I thought he had quite a bad game untill the fourth but he did a solid job in the fourth when offense was being stagnant and Raptors were pushing to stay in the game.

[will_spurs]

He's not 'transitioning' into a 3 point shooter.

I didn't claim he was "transitioning".


You look at his shooting and where he's taking his shots, and it's in-line with all his career. Paint rules (32%), long 2s (27%)... I didn't say his shooting is bad, but he's not really 'changing' where his shots are coming from.

Well nothing has changed in the Spurs system to let him take any kind of other shots, except the corner 3 from time to time which seems a bit more scripted than his other 3 points attempts. What kind of shots would you want him to take?


My main concern with Tony this season has been his struggles in the past couple of months. This is the 2nd season he starts with a bang in November, and by around this time looks completely gassed. And it's worrying because he's one of three people on the team that can handle the ball with any kind of security. I want November Tony back, I just don't know if he's going to be there.

That's a different narrative :lol

Parker had two main roles so far offensively, apart from bringing the ball up the court (which is still a skill that makes him stand out among Spurs guards :lol ) and it was being in "attack mode" (the whole defense collapsing thing) or running the loop. He's not doing the first much any more, deferring instead to Kawhi-LMA (as explained), although he seems to have good success when doing it (maybe the surprise element as teams aren't really expecting it any more). He still has quite a bit of "burst" in his legs and shows a few times per game but that's obviously not what's being asked of him any longer. And the Spurs don't seem to rely on the loop quite as much as before, so he's just trying to find LMA whenever possible (at which point there are usually 3-4 postgame threads about how he didn't pass the ball to Kawhi).

I understand there are concerns with Parker, and some of them are actually real, but most of them come from some totally unrealistic expectations from fans (or, ahem, "fans"). He's far from useless or washed up, no matter how much some people would like it to be true. Rather we should realize that he's going to be something different every night: sometimes shooting, sometimes passing, sometimes D (like against the Warriors, before the krew jumps on me for putting Parker and D in the same sentence). At this point in his career he could transition to a bench role like Manu EXCEPT the Spurs have no starting caliber PG on the roster. Actually for most of Parker's career they haven't had a 2nd string caliber PG on the roster either.

[Brazil]

:lol definitely a homer and my favorite Spur, tbh, a guy I was fortunate to meet in person many times, but I never put him over the team. When he sucked in 2013, I said so, no excuses, even said he might retire. I never said the foul on Dirk was good D, I simply said the Spurs had more options to win that game after that foul, and that we largely were in that game thanks to Manu in the first place, little things that fans forget over a single play.

I don't hate anybody and I always hope our players do well. I do run some schtick here and there with Parker fans, but they even know it's a schtick (ask Brazil). I want our players to do well, and when I think they're not doing well, I just say it.

Manu just happens to be very, very good, and has done a whole lot of great things for this franchise, even this team this season, which makes it very easy to root for. And I'm hardly alone in that sentiment in here, IMO.

:lol I always said you are by far the best Parker hater on this board and it is not even close tbh... Deep down you dislike Parker for all sort of good and bad reasons but at the very least when you reasonable side is on you are fair and I'm sure you wish Parker do well for the Spurs. Now there are situations when you cannot hold it tbh... :lol then the subtle jabing starts especially when Manu is in the conversation.

I believe that's the main difference between you and me, I genuinely like Manu, I do like the basketball player (Spurs player + the fact he butt fucked USA is a +10000 in mybook) but also the man. I do like a lot Argentina, the country, the people, the Argentinean football (Diego is my favorite all time) so I have a lot of very positive vibes with your country bro. That's not the case for you towards neither France nor Parker.

Fans are usually unfair with Parker on a bb perspective or human perspective for also a lot of good and bad reasons... at the end him he does not give a shit neither Pop and FO give a shit abouth what fans think... fortunately.

[ElNono]

I didn't claim he was "transitioning".

But that's the point you appear to be responding to. My first post about this in this thread is how difficult will it be for him to transition to a different/lesser role. He's not going to turn into a 3 ball specialist. His jumper, while decent, will never be as good as his bread and butter, which is finishing in the paint. It's not a knock on Tony, it's hard to do something different after so many years. It's not trolling. I haven't even complained about Tony much at all this season, other than particular plays during game threads, which are more in the moment stuff...

And FWIW, about expectations, I totally agree some stuff is crazy. Some peeps also think we should have SuperManu every game. Not going to happen.

[ElNono]

I believe that's the main difference between you and me, I genuinely like Manu, I do like the basketball player (Spurs player + the fact he butt fucked USA is a +10000 in mybook) but also the man. I do like a lot Argentina, the country, the people, the Argentinean football (Diego is my favorite all time) so I have a lot of very positive vibes with your country bro. That's not the case for you towards neither France nor Parker.

I actually not only genuinely like France (visited and loved Paris), I even have family there, so that's really not true. Parker the person certainly not my fave, but that's ok, I don't know him or hate him either.

[SAGirl]

Tony was outplayed by Cojo but he was fine deferring to the guys that had it going and the shots he hit in the 4th were needed. It was a bit shocking to our psyche though bc in the past there's is no way he gets outplayed by Cojo. That shock element is probably spawning this criticism.

[RD2191]

Wtf are we talking about? :wakeup

[Brazil]

His jumper, while decent, will never be as good as his bread and butter, which is finishing in the paint.

:lol wtf is that tbh ? he has in fact one of the most reliable JS in the league... never as good as his lay up is kind of funny too... give me a player that has a better JS than lay up :lol

compare with Manu for instance, Manu career from 3 to 10 is .412 / Parker .460. From 10-16 Manu .392 / Parker .395. From 16 < 3 Manu .395 / Parker .411... So yeah he is not as elite as Chris Paul or Steve Nash but :lol @ "while decent"

[Brazil]

I actually not only genuinely like France (visited and loved Paris), I even have family there, so that's really not true. Parker the person certainly not my fave, but that's ok, I don't know him or hate him either.

point taken about France... the bold part is my point tho... you don't hate but dislike him which is ok but one can feel that on your posts

On a side note, Parker is a good dude... the fact he does not wave towels don't make him a bad person... From people who know him well, you will never hear he is not a good guy.

[Obstructed_View]

His jumper, while decent, will never be as good as his bread and butter, which is finishing in the paint. It's not a knock on Tony,

Yet somehow you manage to make it sound exactly like a knock on Tony. Yes, the fact that he's probably the most reliable midrange shooting guard in the NBA pales in comparison to the fact that he's one of the best paint-scoring guards in the history of the game.

[Brazil]

Yet somehow you manage to make it sound exactly like a knock on Tony. Yes, the fact that he's probably the most reliable midrange shooting guard in the NBA pales in comparison to the fact that he's one of the best paint-scoring guards in the history of the game.

:tu

[NameLess Scrub]

Just put him in ice until the 2nd round.

[DMC]

Parker is being cast in an impossible position.

Pop has decided to slow down the pace (will be useful against GSW which is basically the only team Pop cares about) but fans complain he doesn't bring the ball up the court fast enough. Hint: we're not playing SSOL (against the Warriors starters at least). Against the bench the strategy might be quite different depending on whether they can follow a run and gun game or not.

Parker had to adapt from a "head of the snake" role (where he would penetrate and then either score or pass to an open elite 3pt shooter) to assisting a dynamic duo of LMA and Kawhi on a team that suddenly barely has any 3pt shooter worth mentioning. If he defers to them, he's labeled passive, a waste of a roster spot and so on. If he doesn't, he's heroballing. That's an impossible equation, and it would be the same regardless of the PG. Actually any other guy the Spurs put in his shoes as a starter isn't doing any better (or sometimes noticeably worse). You can find people like ElNono stating that Parker doesn't score at the rim any more, hasn't developed a jumper (WTF his jumper has always been good), and probably hasn't developed a 3pt game. Yet he is shooting .498 this season, .406 from 3 (clearly the best of his career and breaking news: over .400 from 3 is quite good). His per36 asists are better than his carer average, his turnovers per36 are the lowest of his career. People say he can't adapt to a reduced tole because of his ego yet he's taking far fewer shots than in the past.

Whatever he does, people here focus only on the negatives. It's easy to build any kind of narrative, however false, this way.

Your take is a bit naive. Pop tells Tony to hurry the fuck up, that's what all the arm waving is for. There's no legitimate offensive game plan that includes dribbling for 17 seconds and turning the ball over, and when you cannot attack the rim or shoot well from outside, your options after 17 seconds with Tim Duncan and Danny Green on the floor are severely limited. If the Spurs are going to run a set, there's absolutely zero reason to start it with 5 seconds or so to shoot.

[will_spurs]

There's no legitimate offensive game plan that includes dribbling for 17 seconds and turning the ball over

That never happens except in the last 2 minutes of games when trying to burn time. You're just trolling.

[coachmac87]

Tony obviously doesn't finish or score in the paint as much as he used to..but his "role" is still extremely needed for the Spurs. Which is ATTACK the paint. Mills isn't w threat pass the elbow and Manu isn't an attacking threat like he used to be.

Parker is the only Spur that can do what he can do.

[gambit1990]

the parker fans in this thread :lol enjoy what you still can cause the more time goes by, the harder it'll be for you.

[SupremeGuy]

lol @ people acting like tony dribbling the ball for twenty seconds and then passing to Kawhi with barely any time left is just him running the offense

That being said, I don't think we'd complain as much if he was playing for the vet min but since we're still paying elite PG money I think everyone just wishes we got more value for the contract.

[will_spurs]

the parker fans in this thread :lol enjoy what you still can cause the more time goes by, the harder it'll be for you.

Must be tough being a player's fan. It's so much better when we can just enjoy watching the Spurs play rather than just one guy.


I think everyone just wishes we got more value for the contract.

No you don't because otherwise you'd just be complaining that he's not deferring enough to the real alphas on the team.

[gambit1990]

Must be tough being a player's fan. It's so much better when we can just enjoy watching the Spurs play rather than just one guy.
i'm not a player fan, i'm a spurs fan. parker dominating the ball does nothing to help us. he is not chris paul. the less tony dominates the ball, the more other players touch the ball.

i want team basketball. not tony parker basketball.

[SupremeGuy]

No you don't because otherwise you'd just be complaining that he's not deferring enough to the real alphas on the team.What the fuck are you talking about? As long as he's being efficient and isn't killing our offense, I don't care if he scores. It's just when he does his whole dribble routine, is only looking for his own shot, or starts throwing up brick after brick that he starts pissing people off.

[SupremeGuy]

i'm not a player fan, i'm a spurs fan. parker dominating the ball does nothing to help us. he is not chris paul. the less tony dominates the ball, the more other players touch the ball.

i want team basketball. not tony parker basketball.:tu

[gambit1990]

inb4 parker has a good game and then all the erin barrys on this forum act like he's been playing like that all season.

[will_spurs]

is only looking for his own shot, or starts throwing up brick after brick that he starts pissing people off.

Given his shooting % and the number of times he's been asked to look for his own shot (only when Kawhi was injured), that can't have happened a lot this year, so life is good.

[TheGreatYacht]

Imagine arguing about Parker with Manure tards :lol

[SupremeGuy]

Given his shooting % and the number of times he's been asked to look for his own shot (only when Kawhi was injured), that can't have happened a lot this year, so life is good.So you agree with me then?

[gambit1990]

I think everyone just wishes we got more value for the contract.

No you don't because otherwise you'd just be complaining that he's not deferring enough to the real alphas on the team.
will_spurs' response to your logical assessment :lol what a fucking tool.

[will_spurs]

So you agree with me then?

Yeah, I agree with you that I hate it when Tony does stuff that he actually never does. It's so annoying.

[SupremeGuy]

Yeah, I agree with you that I hate it when Tony does stuff that he actually never does. It's so annoying.What doesn't he do?

[Brazil]

:lol dat gambit poster is quite awful tbh... not sure where he come from

Supreme is my nigg tho...

[ElNono]

:lol wtf is that tbh ? he has in fact one of the most reliable JS in the league... never as good as his lay up is kind of funny too... give me a player that has a better JS than lay up :lol

compare with Manu for instance, Manu career from 3 to 10 is .412 / Parker .460. From 10-16 Manu .392 / Parker .395. From 16 < 3 Manu .395 / Parker .411... So yeah he is not as elite as Chris Paul or Steve Nash but :lol @ "while decent"


Yet somehow you manage to make it sound exactly like a knock on Tony. Yes, the fact that he's probably the most reliable midrange shooting guard in the NBA pales in comparison to the fact that he's one of the best paint-scoring guards in the history of the game.

But I don't, I'm stating a fact: his 60% layups are going to drop in the mid-low 40s. How is that a knock? It's just the reality of the game he plays. Considering his offense is basically all he gives us, that's a pretty big hit. He's not a defender, he's not a rebounder...

If all he's going to do is bring up the ball and take a jumpshot, then play Andre Miller, tbh... at least he won't use half the shotclock before we start a play..

[ElNono]

point taken about France... the bold part is my point tho... you don't hate but dislike him which is ok but one can feel that on your posts

On a side note, Parker is a good dude... the fact he does not wave towels don't make him a bad person... From people who know him well, you will never hear he is not a good guy.

Look, I don't have the same problem with Bobo... he's a chill dude, he doesn't seem the type that would bang a teammate wife or get hit with a bottle on a nightclub, tbh...

[ElNono]

Your take is a bit naive. Pop tells Tony to hurry the fuck up, that's what all the arm waving is for. There's no legitimate offensive game plan that includes dribbling for 17 seconds and turning the ball over, and when you cannot attack the rim or shoot well from outside, your options after 17 seconds with Tim Duncan and Danny Green on the floor are severely limited. If the Spurs are going to run a set, there's absolutely zero reason to start it with 5 seconds or so to shoot.

Unfortunately this is what happens all the time here with this particular threads, tbh... legitimate concerns about the player get deflected, posters banned, then threads locked and deleted, tbh...

I really don't recall a more protected player here, tbh, even the "Was LMA worth it?" thread lasted all season... euro mods, IMO

[Brazil]

But I don't, I'm stating a fact: his 60% layups are going to drop in the mid-low 40s. How is that a knock? It's just the reality of the game he plays. Considering his offense is basically all he gives us, that's a pretty big hit. He's not a defender, he's not a rebounder...

If all he's going to do is bring up the ball and take a jumpshot, then play Andre Miller, tbh... at least he won't use half the shotclock before we start a play..


Look, I don't have the same problem with Bobo... he's a chill dude, he doesn't seem the type that would bang a teammate wife or get hit with a bottle on a nightclub, tbh...

:rolleyes and I thought we were having a serious discussion

proceed with your BS tho... as I said you are the best of the haters... props

[dabom]

Look, I don't have the same problem with Bobo... he's a chill dude, he doesn't seem the type that would bang a teammate wife or get hit with a bottle on a nightclub, tbh...

:lmao

[dabom]

:rolleyes and I thought we were having a serious discussion

proceed with your BS tho... as I said you are the best of the haters... props

Tbh, I don't even see the Parker hate from ElNono. He just calls it how he sees it. I think too many people are biased before they even read his posts.

[ElNono]

:rolleyes and I thought we were having a serious discussion

proceed with your BS tho... as I said you are the best of the haters... props

We'll never agree on Parker and Zidane, tbh... it's all good though, we agree on Diego and what not...

[SAGirl]

lol @ people acting like tony dribbling the ball for twenty seconds and then passing to Kawhi with barely any time left is just him running the offense

That being said, I don't think we'd complain as much if he was playing for the vet min but since we're still paying elite PG money I think everyone just wishes we got more value for the contract.
Nah ppl be hating here just cause the got to hate on someone, record be damned. (Have you seen the hate thrown Anderson's way althout he's 22yrs old an in a rookie contract?). Bleh! Spurs talk always has to be onto somebody or a committee of somebodies.:lol

[DMC]

Most of what Tony does is orchestrated by Pop, or I should say most of what Tony tries to do is orchestrated by Pop. There are plenty moments that most of us can easily identify when we see them that Tony just gets into his "me" mode and ignores wide open shooters in favor of Tony Parker ball. When Kevin Martin was in one of his first few games, he got out on the break ahead of Tony, the lane filled with defenders and Kevin was left all alone. Tony looked him off and drove into the paint, turned the ball over and bitched at the refs all the way back. Any other Spurs player including Tim Duncan (especially Tim) would have hit Kevin Martin, no questions asked, and lived with the outcome. Tony thinks Kevin needs to "earn" his respect. He's got a complex of "I was abused, I worked my way here, through torture from Pop, so it's my team..this is my time, now... Tissot" which sounds a lot like "piss off" coming from Tony.

[dabom]

Most of what Tony does is orchestrated by Pop, or I should say most of what Tony tries to do is orchestrated by Pop. There are plenty moments that most of us can easily identify when we see them that Tony just gets into his "me" mode and ignores wide open shooters in favor of Tony Parker ball. When Kevin Martin was in one of his first few games, he got out on the break ahead of Tony, the lane filled with defenders and Kevin was left all alone. Tony looked him off and drove into the paint, turned the ball over and bitched at the refs all the way back. Any other Spurs player including Tim Duncan (especially Tim) would have hit Kevin Martin, no questions asked, and lived with the outcome. Tony thinks Kevin needs to "earn" his respect. He's got a complex of "I was abused, I worked my way here, through torture from Pop, so it's my team..this is my time, now... Tissot" which sounds a lot like "piss off" coming from Tony.

:lmao



That whole post was gold. Top 10 post of the year nominee. :toast

[SAGirl]

Most of what Tony does is orchestrated by Pop, or I should say most of what Tony tries to do is orchestrated by Pop. There are plenty moments that most of us can easily identify when we see them that Tony just gets into his "me" mode and ignores wide open shooters in favor of Tony Parker ball. When Kevin Martin was in one of his first few games, he got out on the break ahead of Tony, the lane filled with defenders and Kevin was left all alone. Tony looked him off and drove into the paint, turned the ball over and bitched at the refs all the way back. Any other Spurs player including Tim Duncan (especially Tim) would have hit Kevin Martin, no questions asked, and lived with the outcome. Tony thinks Kevin needs to "earn" his respect. He's got a complex of "I was abused, I worked my way here, through torture from Pop, so it's my team..this is my time, now... Tissot" which sounds a lot like "piss off" coming from Tony.
I saw him look off Simmons in transition when that man is a freaking beast in transition. If there is anything he can really, really do is get out in the open court. It was uni our last game against the Cavs. He decided to take the ball himself for a layup and was blocked by LeBron. There are instances like that every game, though it's less frequent bc Pop is p putting the ball in Kawhis hands more. There are not that many opportunities to be looking off ppl.

[Obstructed_View]

Look, I don't have the same problem with Bobo... he's a chill dude, he doesn't seem the type that would bang a teammate wife or get hit with a bottle on a nightclub, tbh...

And the fact that you give a shit about that says volumes about your objectivity. :lol "legitimate concerns".

[will_spurs]

Unfortunately this is what happens all the time here with this particular threads, tbh... legitimate concerns about the player get deflected, posters banned, then threads locked and deleted, tbh...

I really don't recall a more protected player here, tbh, even the "Was LMA worth it?" thread lasted all season... euro mods, IMO

You used to be subtle and funny in your trolling but you're declining faster than Parker :lol

[SpursBig3s]

I wonder what was Enrique's 3point percentage in the playoffs last year. :lmao

[Brazil]

We'll never agree on Parker and Zidane, tbh... it's all good though, we agree on Diego and what not...

it's all good when you don't insult my intelligence which is not the case here...

:lol decent
:lol it is not a knock
:lol throwing the good ol' teammate wife when short of argument

let us proceed but without me

[TD 21]

He's not low IQ at all, IMO, he's just a guy that will never translate his game to more of a playmaker or a jump shooter... he's just going to have to find new ways to finish near the rim.. he used to have a money floater for the longest time, and for some reason it has disappeared. I want him to do well, we could always use another experienced guy doing well.

It's not a matter of want; he's just not suited for either. He's made strides in both areas over the years though.

There are no "new ways". He's the best finishing small guard ever, but time has taken it's toll and he probably doesn't get the same elevation.

[ElNono]

And the fact that you give a shit about that says volumes about your objectivity. :lol "legitimate concerns".

come on O_V, just a 'lil laugh :lol

[ElNono]

You used to be subtle and funny in your trolling but you're declining faster than Parker :lol

Actually, Tony's decline really accentuated this topic... it's getting really hard to be subtle about it...

[ElNono]

FWIW, the only player I ever hated was/is Bonner... didn't even hate Rasho, tbh

[ElNono]

it's all good when you don't insult my intelligence which is not the case here...

:lol decent
:lol it is not a knock
:lol throwing the good ol' teammate wife when short of argument

let us proceed but without me

:lol we were discussing Tony Parker the person, why would stuff like that not matter? Although Kobe is worse though... at least Tony is no snitch

[daslicer]

FWIW, the only player I ever hated was/is Bonner... didn't even hate Rasho, tbh

I think Rasho was the first foreign player in which Stephen A Smith openly expressed his strong xenophobia for.

[Slippy]

Most of what Tony does is orchestrated by Pop, or I should say most of what Tony tries to do is orchestrated by Pop. There are plenty moments that most of us can easily identify when we see them that Tony just gets into his "me" mode and ignores wide open shooters in favor of Tony Parker ball. When Kevin Martin was in one of his first few games, he got out on the break ahead of Tony, the lane filled with defenders and Kevin was left all alone. Tony looked him off and drove into the paint, turned the ball over and bitched at the refs all the way back. Any other Spurs player including Tim Duncan (especially Tim) would have hit Kevin Martin, no questions asked, and lived with the outcome. Tony thinks Kevin needs to "earn" his respect. He's got a complex of "I was abused, I worked my way here, through torture from Pop, so it's my team..this is my time, now... Tissot" which sounds a lot like "piss off" coming from Tony.

Its low iq if we were to judge Tony as a PG only. Any player that looks off Lamarcus Alderidge posting up
Louis Schola so he can run a play for himself or danny green cant be that bright in the decision-making business.

[Obstructed_View]

I think Rasho was the first foreign player in which Stephen A Smith openly expressed his strong xenophobia for.

The word you're searching for is "racism".

[daslicer]

The word you're searching for is "racism".

Agreed that is true.

[GSH]

When you include playoff minutes, Parker has about 42,000 total NBA minutes, compared to about 30,000 for Manu. A lot of Manu's have been Demolition Derby, but that's still a HUGE difference in mileage. I didn't look to see how many minutes each has played in the summers, but they've both played a lot for their NT's. I don't think you can deny that Tony has a lot more wear and tear on him than Manu.

Andre Miller only has two more years in the league than Parker, but has been a bench player for the last 5 seasons, and he has over 40,000 minutes compared to Parker's 34,000. But... when you put in playoff minutes, they both have right at 42,000 minutes. So Parker has almost the exact same NBA mileage as Andre Miller, but a LOT more of Parker's have been brutal playoff minutes. Is it really that surprising that he might have lost a step? It doesn't surprise anyone that Miller is slower than he used to be.

TBH, when you look at Tony's career minutes, it shouldn't be any surprise that he's fallen off. Michael Finley was pretty well worn out when he retired. He had about 42,000 minutes (including playoffs) in 15 seasons - that's exactly where Parker is right now. Steve Nash was pretty pathetic when he retired - part was his back, but part was that he had 42,000 career minutes (including playoffs) ... the same as Parker right now.

It's probably more amazing that Parker is playing as good as he is.

[gilmor]

When you include playoff minutes, Parker has about 42,000 total NBA minutes, compared to about 30,000 for Manu. A lot of Manu's have been Demolition Derby, but that's still a HUGE difference in mileage. I didn't look to see how many minutes each has played in the summers, but they've both played a lot for their NT's. I don't think you can deny that Tony has a lot more wear and tear on him than Manu.

Andre Miller only has two more years in the league than Parker, but has been a bench player for the last 5 seasons, and he has over 40,000 minutes compared to Parker's 34,000. But... when you put in playoff minutes, they both have right at 42,000 minutes. So Parker has almost the exact same NBA mileage as Andre Miller, but a LOT more of Parker's have been brutal playoff minutes. Is it really that surprising that he might have lost a step? It doesn't surprise anyone that Miller is slower than he used to be.

TBH, when you look at Tony's career minutes, it shouldn't be any surprise that he's fallen off. Michael Finley was pretty well worn out when he retired. He had about 42,000 minutes (including playoffs) in 15 seasons - that's exactly where Parker is right now. Steve Nash was pretty pathetic when he retired - part was his back, but part was that he had 42,000 career minutes (including playoffs) ... the same as Parker right now.

It's probably more amazing that Parker is playing as good as he is.

Golden post.. As in any sports, decline in any sportsman is a well anticipated outcome..

unless you are like Lance, who injects himself with fake blood and epo and manage to win TdF 7 times..

[dabom]

Comparing a PG who can't dunk to a SG who is stressing his body more. :lmao

[DMC]

Here's what I've seen ITT:

1. Why Parker sucks
2. It's not Parker's fault he sucks
3. Parker isn't the only one who sucks


I've not seen anything to say that Parker won't lose his starting position to someone like Kevin fucking Martin if he has a shitty showing in the post season. Why would real talent stick around or come here if the Spurs aren't willing to make the changes necessary at EVERY position to be successful?

No go ahead and move the goal posts again and talk about how the Spurs "could still win", because it has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Then again, neither does WHY Parker sucks, or that anyone else on the team also sucks, or who's fault it is that Parker sucks. All that matters is this: If Parker has a 3rd consecutive shitty showing in the playoffs, will he still be the starting PG next season? Remember, Parker was having a shitty playoffs in 2014 when they won the ring, so it's not like Parker having a shitty outing means Spurs can't win. It just means Pop has to hide Tony on the bench or behind some non-factor on offense.

[gambit1990]

All that matters is this: If Parker has a 3rd consecutive shitty showing in the playoffs, will he still be the starting PG next season?
he will be starting at PG next season regardless of anything. but hopefully not.

[GSH]

All that matters is this: If Parker has a 3rd consecutive shitty showing in the playoffs, will he still be the starting PG next season? Remember, Parker was having a shitty playoffs in 2014 when they won the ring, so it's not like Parker having a shitty outing means Spurs can't win. It just means Pop has to hide Tony on the bench or behind some non-factor on offense.


I thought it was understood from his minutes. Right now, this very minute, Tony is a Top 50 All-Time player... in total minutes played. When you add together regular season and playoff minutes, Tony is somewhere in the top 50. And of those 50, not many are point guards. It should be pretty obvious to anyone that Tony is at or very near the end of his career as a starting PG, simply because he's already out where few PG's have gone before. That's not a knock on Tony, it's an accomplishment. But it's also a fact of life. I don't have an exact count, but there probably aren't more than about a handful of PG's who have played more total NBA minutes than Tony.

Some people here may not want to acknowledge it, but I guarantee you the Spurs FO knows it. So, yeah, if he has a bad showing in the playoffs, they are going to be looking for a younger PG. Probably even if he's better than last year. I don't know if they can get one, or if Tony will stay and come off the bench. But you bet your ass the FO will be looking.

For the record:
Remember how old Terry Porter was when he retired? Tony has more minutes than him.
Derek Harper played until he was ancient. Tony has more mileage/minutes than he did.
Allen Iverson led the league in minutes played more than once, and played till he was shot. Tony has more mileage than he did.
Jerry West, with all the playoff minutes he got, still only had a little over 1,000 more minutes than Parker has now. That's about half a season worth.
Jason Terry has about 1,500 minutes more than Parker, but he's only good for spot minutes now, not starting like Tony.
You have to go up to someone like Gary Payton to find a PG with appreciably more minutes than Parker has played.
Stockton, Kidd, Payton, Terry, and West are, I think, the only PG's with more NBA minutes than Parker. Nash and Miller, as I said, are about tied, or close to it.
Not to mention all the summer ball he's played that those other guys didn't.

So what's wrong with Parker? He's fucking old for an NBA PG. Of course people should be wondering if he can be the starting PG on an championship team.

[will_spurs]

Here's what I've seen ITT:

1. DMC spewing unsubstantiated crap
2. DMC being schooled
3. DMC trying some weak comeback

Fixed it for you.


I've not seen anything to say that Parker won't lose his starting position to someone like Kevin fucking Martin if he has a shitty showing in the post season.

Well, he won't. You've read it here first.


If Parker has a 3rd consecutive shitty showing in the playoffs [...] Remember, Parker was having a shitty playoffs in 2014 when they won the ring, so it's not like Parker having a shitty outing means Spurs can't win.

The thing is, you remember wrong (hint: when it comes to Parker, you always remember wrong). He didn't have a shitty outing in 2014. He went 17.4 & 4.8 on 48% shooting, was a key player in some big games, and had basically the same line than in 2005 (which won't surprise you because deep inside you're convinced that Parker has actually been shitty every year).

You keep rewriting history but remember that repeating lies doesn't make them truth, it just turns you into GWB.

[DMC]

Fixed it for you.

Everything I said is substantiated.

You're only giving your Vegas bet style opinion, nothing else. Given your proclivity for shitty takes I'd start looking for work if I was Tony.

Parker stat padded. We all know it. He had a horrible outing.

[Brazil]

Comparing a PG who can't dunk to a SG who is stressing his body more. :lmao

:lol that's a crappy argument tbh... Parker spent his career to be among the players who run the most distance per game so in 100 games he probably run the equivalent a 110 games compared to an average nba player. And that without taking into account the fact he is a 6'2 PG spending most of his time in the paint going against the centers of the games...

[Brazil]

Here's what I've seen ITT:

1. Why Parker sucks
2. It's not Parker's fault he sucks
3. Parker isn't the only one who sucks


I've not seen anything to say that Parker won't lose his starting position to someone like Kevin fucking Martin if he has a shitty showing in the post season. Why would real talent stick around or come here if the Spurs aren't willing to make the changes necessary at EVERY position to be successful?

No go ahead and move the goal posts again and talk about how the Spurs "could still win", because it has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Then again, neither does WHY Parker sucks, or that anyone else on the team also sucks, or who's fault it is that Parker sucks. All that matters is this: If Parker has a 3rd consecutive shitty showing in the playoffs, will he still be the starting PG next season? Remember, Parker was having a shitty playoffs in 2014 when they won the ring, so it's not like Parker having a shitty outing means Spurs can't win. It just means Pop has to hide Tony on the bench or behind some non-factor on offense.

:lol you are full of shit tbh...

First you start a thread about Parker suck like we don't have 100 of them already and IF Parker continues to suck (for his third straight PO) will he lose his starting PG job (never discussed before too) ? Now you are bitching because people actually discuss your OP ? What were you expecting tbh ? a Yes or a No ?...

Then you sum up the thread with people "defending" Parker and forget the dabom, gambit, elnono that represent near half of the thread and get emo because (omg) some people actually disagree about Parker sucking in 2014...

smh...

[DMC]

:lol you are full of shit tbh...

First you start a thread about Parker suck like we don't have 100 of them already and IF Parker continues to suck (for his third straight PO) will he lose his starting PG job (never discussed before too) ? Now you are bitching because people actually discuss your OP ? What were you expecting tbh ? a Yes or a No ?...

Then you sum up the thread with people "defending" Parker and forget the dabom, gambit, elnono that represent near half of the thread and get emo because (omg) some people actually disagree about Parker sucking in 2014...

smh...

Tony is still a threat to score, but is that what we need with KL and LMA leading the offense? Do we need a 17 second dribbler who gets his points or do we need a guy who can find LMA and KL and get the team involved? Manu is as good a PG as Tony if not better, and that's not even his position. Let's not try to pull wool over the eyes of the forum.

[ElNono]

Everything I said is substantiated.

You're only giving your Vegas bet style opinion, nothing else. Given your proclivity for shitty takes I'd start looking for work if I was Tony.

Parker stat padded. We all know it. He had a horrible outing.

:lol well, damn... can't argue with any of that, tbh

[ElNono]

:lol you are full of shit tbh...

First you start a thread about Parker suck like we don't have 100 of them already and IF Parker continues to suck (for his third straight PO) will he lose his starting PG job (never discussed before too) ? Now you are bitching because people actually discuss your OP ? What were you expecting tbh ? a Yes or a No ?...

Then you sum up the thread with people "defending" Parker and forget the dabom, gambit, elnono that represent near half of the thread and get emo because (omg) some people actually disagree about Parker sucking in 2014...

smh...

didn't you call Parker done at some point, tbh? :stirpot:

[Brazil]

Tony is still a threat to score, but is that what we need with KL and LMA leading the offense? Do we need a 17 second dribbler who gets his points or do we need a guy who can find LMA and KL and get the team involved? Manu is as good a PG as Tony if not better, and that's not even his position. Let's not try to pull wool over the eyes of the forum.

smh...where did you get that 17 seconds dribbler come from ? LMA and KL are getting fed pretty well tbh... did not know Spurs issues right now where how to feed LMA and KL... I thought issues were about having another scoring threat. Spurs offense is doing pretty well currently. Now what's your point ? There are better PGs in the NBA ? no shit sherlock... In Spurs roster who would you put as starting pg ? Mills ?

I personnally would love Spurs to have a PG capable to do the job and let Parker with second unit... I have no issue at all with that...

Parker is doing fine so far, I thought he was done after last euro, he is not done and still a capable dude... he is what he is in today's league a vet with average production, getting the job done with a great efficiency in terms of shooting. His assits per 36 is higher than previous years, his assist/to ratio is stable... not sure wtf you want

but go ahead with your IF maybe he sucks in POs

[Brazil]

didn't you call Parker done at some point, tbh? :stirpot:

yup

for me he was done and would struggle to adapt to a new role... it seems I overreacted

[J_Paco]

Yet, you are/were right that Tony is done as an elite starting PG. He has proven most wrong and played the peripheral ("role player") role better than expected. I am really concerned about his second half slide and what that could mean for the playoffs, though.

He needs to find that aggression and second gear because the team will need his offense in spurts.

[Splits]

I have my favorites too, but I kind of sympathize with Nono bc even when he dislikes my guy for example, he's not a guy who will be wishing others flat out flunk. Or maybe I misread that?
I know Manu can do no wrong by him. I cut Anderson more slack than anyone too. It doesn't mean when I am wishing others ill and he didn't strike me as that. That was all I meant.

Although believe you me I am aware how partial he's to Manu and how critical he's of others.

I'm in love with you, you sexy little beast.

[diego]

When you include playoff minutes, Parker has about 42,000 total NBA minutes, compared to about 30,000 for Manu. A lot of Manu's have been Demolition Derby, but that's still a HUGE difference in mileage. I didn't look to see how many minutes each has played in the summers, but they've both played a lot for their NT's. I don't think you can deny that Tony has a lot more wear and tear on him than Manu.

Andre Miller only has two more years in the league than Parker, but has been a bench player for the last 5 seasons, and he has over 40,000 minutes compared to Parker's 34,000. But... when you put in playoff minutes, they both have right at 42,000 minutes. So Parker has almost the exact same NBA mileage as Andre Miller, but a LOT more of Parker's have been brutal playoff minutes. Is it really that surprising that he might have lost a step? It doesn't surprise anyone that Miller is slower than he used to be.

TBH, when you look at Tony's career minutes, it shouldn't be any surprise that he's fallen off. Michael Finley was pretty well worn out when he retired. He had about 42,000 minutes (including playoffs) in 15 seasons - that's exactly where Parker is right now. Steve Nash was pretty pathetic when he retired - part was his back, but part was that he had 42,000 career minutes (including playoffs) ... the same as Parker right now.

It's probably more amazing that Parker is playing as good as he is.

manu has easy another 7000 minutes from europe and argentina, not counting the NT. He played more for argentina than parker did for france too, not trying to make a dig but Argentina was going farther and France I believe failed to qualify for an olympics or two. While mileage is relevant, style of play makes a big difference, and a zero mileage! thirty year old isnt going to play into his forties simply because age matters. I do agree that Tony has held up well, the speed isnt what it used to be but people are blowing his "decline" out of proportion. his role is smaller, of course his scoring is a little bit down but he is still contributing an important role. Spurs fans have come to expect all of the big 3 to hold up till 40 but as you wrote its not at all common for players to age as well as tim and to a lesser extent manu have and I have to reluctantly admit that pop's minute management is probably the reason. what ticks me off with Tony is stuff like the other night, Duncan dives to the floor to save a loose ball and Tony just watches. Sometimes it just doesnt look like hes trying hard enough, but he could be saving himself for the playoffs- I hope.

[pgardn]

manu has easy another 7000 minutes from europe and argentina, not counting the NT. He played more for argentina than parker did for france too, not trying to make a dig but Argentina was going farther and France I believe failed to qualify for an olympics or two. While mileage is relevant, style of play makes a big difference, and a zero mileage! thirty year old isnt going to play into his forties simply because age matters. I do agree that Tony has held up well, the speed isnt what it used to be but people are blowing his "decline" out of proportion. his role is smaller, of course his scoring is a little bit down but he is still contributing an important role. Spurs fans have come to expect all of the big 3 to hold up till 40 but as you wrote its not at all common for players to age as well as tim and to a lesser extent manu have and I have to reluctantly admit that pop's minute management is probably the reason. what ticks me off with Tony is stuff like the other night, Duncan dives to the floor to save a loose ball and Tony just watches. Sometimes it just doesnt look like hes trying hard enough, but he could be saving himself for the playoffs- I hope.

Tony has never been the type to get on the floor. That's just not who he is. Manu will have a testicle crushed and then go out and take another charge. But what all real basketball people understand is he is our best PG. You can hate him for his lack of sacrifice in this area, but it's undeniable that he IS OUR PG.

I just can't believe people don't realize this. We do not have Chris Paul or Steph Curry, we have Tony Parker. So he will get blocked by Gobert penetrating to the basket. He will hit Patty for a wide open 3 while penetrating. He will get stuck in the corner and hit a bail out 3. He will feed Kawhi for a dunk. He will fall on the ground and take his time picking his perfectly round head off the floor.

Tony Parker plays PG for the San Antonio Spurs.

[YGWHI]

He will feed Kawhi for a dunk
Can't remember the last time he did it...2014 season?

[PopTheGOAT]

Tony has never been the type to get on the floor. That's just not who he is. Manu will have a testicle crushed and then go out and take another charge. But what all real basketball people understand is he is our best PG. You can hate him for his lack of sacrifice in this area, but it's undeniable that he IS OUR PG.

I just can't believe people don't realize this. We do not have Chris Paul or Steph Curry, we have Tony Parker. So he will get blocked by Gobert penetrating to the basket. He will hit Patty for a wide open 3 while penetrating. He will get stuck in the corner and hit a bail out 3. He will feed Kawhi for a dunk. He will fall on the ground and take his time picking his perfectly round head off the floor.

Tony Parker plays PG for the San Antonio Spurs.
Although he is frustrating to watch at times, agreed. Spurfan gets greedy

[pgardn]

Can't remember the last time he did it...2014 season?

Yes that was it.

He is strangely jealous of Kawhi so Tony will not pass to him. Back in Junior High...
The entire crew knows this. Did you steal 100% stupid's eyeliner?

[YGWHI]

Yes that was it.

He is strangely jealous of Kawhi so Tony will not pass to him. Back in Junior High...
The entire crew knows this. Did you steal 100% stupid's eyeliner?

There is no need to overreact...

I was asking because...I can't really remember a play like that.
Most of those dunks came from bigs -Tim, Boris, even West one time this season- throwing lobs to Kawhi, or Kawhi running a fast break.

IIRC the last time of a PG made a pass for Kawhi's dunk was CoJo against Detroit in Kawhi's return from his broken-hand injury.

[DMC]

inb4 parker has a good game and then all the erin barrys on this forum act like he's been playing like that all season.

[will_spurs]

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202695/tracking/passes/

Kawhi receives most passes and assists from... Tony Parker.

:cry but we never have dishonest takes :cry

[dabom]

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202695/tracking/passes/

Kawhi receives most passes and assists from... Tony Parker.

:cry but we never have dishonest takes :cry
Tony has the ball in his hands most of time. Shocker :lmao

[DMC]

Tony being Tony

[KL2]

He's gotta go, Spurs have no future with him on the roster, he's wasted the last few years of Manu/TD's careers, he's harmed Leonard's development too. He's going to waste Pop's remaining years and interrupt the rebuilding process as well. The Leonard-Aldridge years will be a waste as well with TP on the roster, Spurs aren't going anywhere.

[dabom]

Pop is the one telling Tony to run the offense though. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

-Only for parker to come in and not take a single shot after...Spurs were on a run but Parker comes una nd ruins it.

- Makes baskets in the fourth and looking like a run with 13 pts down with 5 minuts left. Doesnt touch the ball for the next 5 possesions.

- Who did? Parker.

- Forcing Parker to have a bigger role than being part of committe does this to you.

[hooperflash]

2K after the game? Tbh

[apalisoc_9]

He's gotta go, Spurs have no future with him on the roster, he's wasted the last few years of Manu/TD's careers, he's harmed Leonard's development too. He's going to waste Pop's remaining years and interrupt the rebuilding process as well. The Leonard-Aldridge years will be a waste as well with TP on the roster, Spurs aren't going anywhere.

Everytime kawhi was on a roll this douche would try something else and it backfires. :lol

[Mnky]

You're right. Kawhi needs to stop being a pansie and show up every quarter. Dude needs to learn how to be consistent.

[dabom]

Everytime kawhi was on a roll this douche would try something else and it backfires. :lol

Every fucking time man. Kawhi got you some offense. You don't even touch the ball of offense now. :lmao

[RD2191]

Bench or gtfo imo. I'd hate to see him play for anyone other than SA but this team is going nowhere fast if he's starting next season.

[apalisoc_9]

He just isnt a good fit anymore. Today is the perfect example of him trying to do too much. He outshot leonard significantly when he was on the floor with him.

He really needs to go. His ego hasnt adjusted and will never will.

Dont they pay citizens to kill invasive hogs in Florida? Should do the same thing in San Antonio.

[Splits]

lol meltdown

[KL2]

$14 mill for Porker next year, wasting the Jordan of our generation's early years SMH.

[dabom]

Dude needs to stop trying to be the 1st option every fucking competitive game. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

If your last name is Barnes, Kawhi will grab his ankles

[dabom]

That was ugly man. I can't understand this. I just can't explain this.

[RD2191]

$14 mill for Porker next year, wasting the Jordan of our generation's early years SMH.

[apalisoc_9]

Bench or gtfo imo. I'd hate to see him play for anyone other than SA but if this team is going nowhere fast if he's starting next season.

He is trying to fight the transition of the team. Living in the past basically. If he shots anything over 5 shots, they should just let him go.

He didnt even recognize the fact that Kawhi was on a microvae today un the field 8/12 and 2/3 from three.

The real definition of poor recognition.

[dabom]

Dude is done. And this cuck midnightpulp wants Tony to be the third option. :lmao

[midnightpulp]

:lol Parker only took one shot during that 2:00 min stretch before being subbed out for K-Mart. And the Spurs only had 4 possessions total. Placing the blame on him (or anyone) over that stretch is retarded.

That said, as pissed as I was when I made my starters thread, I'm glad the Spurs finished somewhat strong and weren't down 20-30 in the 4th.

Some small bright spots are:

- K-Mart
- Harrison Barnes is unlikely to play that well again
- Hopefully it was the injury that hampered LMA tonight and not the environment/pressure.
- Boris is vitally important in this matchup (Duncan is not made for this matchup) and we missed him.

Glimmer of hope, but it's a small one.

[RD2191]

:lol

[SAGirl]

Frankly doesn't matter if we don't have anyone. What we have is the committe. We struggled to score for the first half, from there on, I thought guys made an effort after a slow start. We just can't make come backs from behind if we can't get stops or get rebounds after we do get a stop.

[SASdynasty!]

Parker is the third option. He's never been anything less than a third option his whole career. Can't say the same for any other Spur, sadly.

[DMC]

Nationally televised game = Tony's Tissot moment.

KL: "I'm open"

TP: "Tissot"

LMA: "Mouse in the house"

TP: "Tissot"

Danny: "I just hit 3 in a row, I'm wide open"

TP: "Tissot"

[midnightpulp]

Patty House 0-5 for 0 points in the part of the game that mattered :lol

At least Manu woke up slightly and Green wasn't complete shit. But they weren't any better than Tony tonight.

:tu to West, K-Mart, and SloMo, though. Doing what the "committee" can't, actually scoring efficiently.

[The Whopper]

A small one indeed.

[dabom]

Nationally televised game = Tony's Tissot moment.

KL: "I'm open"

TP: "Tissot"

LMA: "Mouse in the house"

TP: "Tissot"

Danny: "I just hit 3 in a row, I'm wide open"

TP: "Tissot"

Brah you got me dying over here. :lol :rollin

[Mugen]

:lol As garbage as Patty was tonight, I'd feel significantly better about the Spurs' chances this year if Porky suffered a serious injury tbh. It pains me to say it but that's a fact.

[100%duncan]

Patty House 0-5 for 0 points in the part of the game that mattered :lol

At least Manu woke up slightly and Green wasn't complete shit. But they weren't any better than Tony tonight.

:tu to West, K-Mart, and SloMo, though. Doing what the "committee" can't, actually scoring efficiently.

Bruh lets discuss shit in my thread. Actually think Parker can play well against GSW imho.

[dabom]

Patty House 0-5 for 0 points in the part of the game that mattered :lol

At least Manu woke up slightly and Green wasn't complete shit. But they weren't any better than Tony tonight.

:tu to West, K-Mart, and SloMo, though. Doing what the "committee" can't, actually scoring efficiently.

"Parts of the game" :lmao

8 shots 7 points

Porker 10 points on 10 shots and freezing out Kawhi. :lmao

[DMC]

Brah you got me dying over here. :lol :rollin

Spurs team: "Tony pass the fucking ball"

TP:

http://jmz.pulp68.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tissot-tony-parker.jpg

[dabom]

Serious question. This dude is a fucking liability all the time. He needs to defer to Kawhi and LMA at all time instead of passing the ball to Green all the fucking time. :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

Obsessed with Parker. You have taken Apo's mantle. How many threads you gonna make?

[dabom]

What is danny even gonna do with the ball? Pump fake and pass out like 100% of the time?

Let Kawhi get it and he can open the floor for everyone and maybe Green is in the other end ready for a pass.

[apalisoc_9]

:lol As garbage as Patty was tonight, I'd feel significantly better about the Spurs' chances this year if Porky suffered a serious injury tbh. It pains me to say it but that's a fact.

Pretty much.

Parker is a cancer

[Benoit]

Parker has been carrying Duncan since 2007

give him a break

[apalisoc_9]

2K after the game? Tbh

Lets play bro...just set it to 6 minutes. 7 is a bit too long I feel like :lol

[hooperflash]

Okay, I'm online.

Lets play bro...just set it to 6 minutes. 7 is a bit too long I feel like :lol

[SASdynasty!]

Parker has been carrying Duncan since 2007

give him a break
2008-2014

[DenialTwist]

Fuck Tony Parker.

[ElNono]

Nationally televised game = Tony's Tissot moment.

KL: "I'm open"

TP: "Tissot"

LMA: "Mouse in the house"

TP: "Tissot"

Danny: "I just hit 3 in a row, I'm wide open"

TP: "Tissot"

:lol

[gilmor]

684757892793122816

Also in Wap-2.. wtf is that??

[pgardn]

No Parker, no point.

Its on him. No one else on this team can play point replacing his minutes. That's just fact, like it or not.

[Clipper Nation]

Nationally televised game = Tony's Tissot moment.

KL: "I'm open"

TP: "Tissot"

LMA: "Mouse in the house"

TP: "Tissot"

Danny: "I just hit 3 in a row, I'm wide open"

TP: "Tissot"
:lmao

[gambit1990]

i'm not a player fan, i'm a spurs fan. parker dominating the ball does nothing to help us. he is not chris paul. the less tony dominates the ball, the more other players touch the ball.

i want team basketball. not tony parker basketball.