05' vs 15'

[coachmac87]

I've mentioned this on my last podcast but wanted to get others opinions and thoughts.

05 Spurs defense rating: 98.8
15 Spurs defense rating: 95.6

05 Suns offense rating: 114.5 (24 3pt att 40%)
15 Warriors offense rating: 112.8 (31 3pt att 41%)

Yes I know the Suns didn't win a ring but you can make the argument because they faced the team who was built to beat them. (Spurs)

Warriors didn't face us last year...

[Spurtacular]

Suns/Warrior defensive ratings though? Warriors know to be physical as the refs allow them more fouls.

[MultiTroll]

2005 Spurs beat Phoenix a couple of games with their own medicine, that being fast paced.

While I think we could run with the Golden Phaggots, much better to have a 91-87 win like a week ago.

[coachmac87]

Spurs should be golden if they can keep GS around 100pts.

Warriors shoot 31's a game. Spurs are by far the best defensive team when it's guarding the 3pt line. I dunno if GS can win if they can't get their 3's.

Key IMO is who wins that battle on defending/shooting 3pt line

[Budkin]

You mean 2016 Spurs?

[SpursFan86]

Suns/Warrior defensive ratings though? Warriors know to be physical as the refs allow them more fouls.

Yeah, the '15 Warriors were way better defensively than the '05 Suns.

'05 Suns: DRTG = 107.1 (17th)
'15 Warriors: DRTG = 101.4 (1st)

'05 Suns: SRS = +7.08 (2nd), '05 Spurs: SRS = +7.84 (1st)
'15 Warriors: SRS = +10.01 (1st), '15 Spurs: SRS = +6.33 (3rd...although we obviously had a lot of injuries last year)

[SpursFan86]

You mean 2016 Spurs?

I think he's talking about what would've happened last year if we met GS in the playoffs and saying/implying that the Spurs would've won.

[daslicer]

If the Spurs have '05 Duncan I like their chances against the Warriors.

[coachmac87]

Comparing this year teams. Sorry on confusion

[coachmac87]

Yeah, the '15 Warriors were way better defensively than the '05 Suns.

'05 Suns: DRTG = 107.1 (17th)
'15 Warriors: DRTG = 101.4 (1st)

'05 Suns: SRS = +7.08 (2nd), '05 Spurs: SRS = +7.84 (1st)
'15 Warriors: SRS = +10.01 (1st), '15 Spurs: SRS = +6.33 (3rd...although we obviously had a lot of injuries last year)

The stats I posted are from THIS year teams

[Hemotivo]

Manu in '05 was GOD

[NameLess Scrub]

Wish we could put old players into new teams like in NBA 2K, to plug '05 big 3 into '16.

[SpursFan86]

The stats I posted are from THIS year teams

For future reference, 99% of people discussing basketball refer to seasons by the year in which the playoffs are played. This year's Warriors would be the '16 Warriors. The Bulls that won 72 games are referred to as the '96 Bulls, not the '95 Bulls. It's even more confusing because you referred to the '05 Suns by the year in which the playoffs were played, then apparently decided to switch it up for this year's teams and refer to them as the "2015 Spurs/Warriors" :lol

Regardless, my point still stands. The '16 Warriors are 5th defensively this year, much better than the '05 Suns who were below average defensively.

[Kawhitstorm]

Regardless, my point still stands. The '16 Warriors are 5th defensively this year, much better than the '05 Suns who were below average defensively.

The Suns were basically the equivalent of last season's Cripples (net rating: 6.9 vs. 7.4; Blake was also missed 15 games last season):


Coach: Doc Rivers (http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/riverdo01c.html) (56-26)
PTS/G: 106.7 (2nd of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 100.1 (16th of 30)
SRS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): 6.80 (2nd of 30) ▪ Pace (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 94.7 (10th of 30)
Off Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 112.4 (1st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 105.5 (15th of 30)
Expected W-L (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 58-24 (2nd of 30)

Coach: Mike D'Antoni (http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html) (62-20)
PTS/G: 110.4 (1st of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 103.3 (30th of 30)
SRS (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): 7.08 (2nd of 30) ▪ Pace (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 95.9 (1st of 30)
Off Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 114.5 (1st of 30) ▪ Def Rtg (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 107.1 (17th of 30)
Expected W-L (http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 59-23 (2nd of 30)

[coachmac87]

Ok. But everybody keeps ignoring the Suns offense in a time (10 years ago) we've never really seen. They won 60+ games and were the media darlings because they seemed unstoppable in the regular season.

They had Nash, Marion, Amare, Diaw and Joe Johnson..team was loaded and you can say that their PNR game is harder to guard then what GSW runs.

But Spurs figured them out and I think we can with the Warriors due to their reliance on the 3 and our greatness at defending it.

This ain't our first rodeo.

[100%duncan]

Ugh the suns are nowhere near the warriors' level.

[Kawhitstorm]

They had Nash, Marion, Amare, Diaw and Joe Johnson..team was loaded and you can say that their PNR game is harder to guard then what GSW runs.


Marion shot 39% & got outscored by Nazr.:lol Besides, Diaw wasn't on the 2005 Suns, Joe Johnson got traded for Diaw in the offseaon.:wakeup

[Obstructed_View]

Ok. But everybody keeps ignoring the Suns offense in a time (10 years ago) we've never really seen. They won 60+ games and were the media darlings because they seemed unstoppable in the regular season.

They had Nash, Marion, Amare, Diaw and Joe Johnson..team was loaded and you can say that their PNR game is harder to guard then what GSW runs.

But Spurs figured them out and I think we can with the Warriors due to their reliance on the 3 and our greatness at defending it.

This ain't our first rodeo.

They traded Johnson for Boris when he left via free agency. The two weren't on the team at the same time.

[SPURt]

That 05 Suns team didn't have the depth of this Warriors team:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2005.html

Look at the minutes those Suns starters played! By the time the playoffs started they were running an 8 man rotation that saw a 34 yr old Jim Jackson as the sixth man with a young Barbosa and Steven Hunter being the other two players coming off the bench.

The only take away I have from that 05 series is that if anyone can figure out a way to beat the Warriors in a seven game series it is coach Pop.

[TDomination]

I agree that the Spurs will figure out how to beat the Warriors like they did the suns.

But i disagree that Warriors = Suns.

Warriors much more physical, better defense and Prime Curry > Prime Nash. But this Spurs team is amazing and it will be displayed in the playoffs and all the way through the finals.

[coachmac87]

Just in general tho..there are similarities.

Suns took the league by storm. They were putting up points that the league hadn't seen in quite some time. That team offensively was a juggernaut and you can argue the Spurs were the only team stopping them.

I understand the Warriors are better defensively but as Spurs fans are you worried about their defense?? Main concern should be how to contain the offense to an extent. Something the Spurs can do just like they did with the Suns.

And Steve Nash was a bad dude. Not only could he shoot anywhere on the court but you HAD to guard the pass with him too.

[TheDoctor]

Ugh the suns are nowhere near the warriors' level.

[coachmac87]

Ugh the suns are nowhere near the warriors' level.

Offensively they were. And you can argue that they were better offensively

[UNT Eagles 2016]

They traded Johnson for Boris when he left via free agency. The two weren't on the team at the same time.
Though they had Quentin Richardson in 2005, who was far superior to Diaw... dude was a far better 3 point shooter than Klay... plus Jim Jackson off the bench who was still pretty darn good (I think he fell off after that, but still). Barbosa was pretty young then and they didn't have much off the bench... Steven Hunter, Jake Voskuhl, Walter McCarty, Casey Jacobsen, Bo Outlaw, part-time 10-day-or-so contract guys like Dan Dickau, Antoine Rigaudeau, Smush Parker (!)... yeah, their bench was awful :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Though they had Quentin Richardson in 2005, who was far superior to Diaw... dude was a far better 3 point shooter than Klay... plus Jim Jackson off the bench who was still pretty darn good (I think he fell off after that, but still). Barbosa was pretty young then and they didn't have much off the bench... Steven Hunter, Jake Voskuhl, Walter McCarty, Casey Jacobsen, Bo Outlaw, part-time 10-day-or-so contract guys like Dan Dickau, Antoine Rigaudeau, Smush Parker (!)... yeah, their bench was awful :lol

Not even that their bench was awful, it was that they didn't play. Mike D'Antoni ran six- or eight-man rotations through the regular season and played them even more minutes in the playoffs.

I don't think you're correct about Q Richardson. He found lightning in a bottle in the only team that perfectly fit his skillset. He wasn't worth a shit anywhere other than Phoenix. I don't think he was a better three point shooter than Klay Thompson and I doubt you'd ever find a stat to make a case that he was. He was pretty clutch and helped the team a lot that one year, but I don't think he was all that great.

Jim Jackson was a complete non-factor basically everywhere. He produced some stats in Dallas, but he had cemented his legacy as a team killer before he even reported to the Mavs. Byt the time he was in Phoenix he was just drawing a paycheck and putting in a few minutes.

Amare was really really fucking good back then, and he's the main reason the team was so good. They had a down year because Amare got hurt his second season, and the turnaround in 2005 that Nash was credited with was mostly because Amare was healthy and nearly unguardable. If he'd taken some time to develop his game rather than relying on his freakish athletic ability he'd have managed to be relevant after his body began to break down.

[coachmac87]

Not even that their bench was awful, it was that they didn't play. Mike D'Antoni ran six- or eight-man rotations through the regular season and played them even more minutes in the playoffs.

I don't think you're correct about Q Richardson. He found lightning in a bottle in the only team that perfectly fit his skillset. He wasn't worth a shit anywhere other than Phoenix. I don't think he was a better three point shooter than Klay Thompson and I doubt you'd ever find a stat to make a case that he was. He was pretty clutch and helped the team a lot that one year, but I don't think he was all that great.

Jim Jackson was a complete non-factor basically everywhere. He produced some stats in Dallas, but he had cemented his legacy as a team killer before he even reported to the Mavs. Byt the time he was in Phoenix he was just drawing a paycheck and putting in a few minutes.

Amare was really really fucking good back then, and he's the main reason the team was so good. They had a down year because Amare got hurt his second season, and the turnaround in 2005 that Nash was credited with was mostly because Amare was healthy and nearly unguardable. If he'd taken some time to develop his game rather than relying on his freakish athletic ability he'd have managed to be relevant after his body began to break down.


Yeah Suns offense is arguably best ever in regular season

[100%duncan]

Offensively they were. And you can argue that they were better offensively

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah Suns offense is arguably best ever in regular season

I don't agree with that. It was a coach playing his five best players 40 minutes a night and sacrificing defense and clock management for raw points. Paul Westhead did the same thing in Denver and it scored more points. Both offenses were unsuccessful because, in addition to scoring the most points, they allowed the most points.

The best offense so far in NBA history was the inside out offense by Rudy T and the Rockets, converting Robert Horry to power forward, surrounding their post player with shooters and punishing double teamers. Nobody had ever hit three pointers at that kind of clip before. Nobody even thought it was possible. Everybody does it now and everybody knows how to play it, but when it came out it was devastating and didn't sacrifice defense or pace of the game to be successful. That offense has won at least ten championships since the Rockets went back to back.