8 second violations

[100%duncan]

What's up with the refs this season? From the games I've seen, mostly on the Spurs, they have missed a lot of 8 second violations. Just earlier, 80-78 and TP was sleepwalking and crossed the half-court line around the 15 second mark, this isnt the only time with TP. When I watched other games outside the Spurs, the refs seem to miss a lot of these calls as well. What the fuck, some of those are actually game-changing :lol

[AFMadison]

Refs just trying to get paid and get home. Hopefully in the playoffs they call fair games. Mainly with those GS moving screens/tackles.

[Spurtacular]

It's basically just like how the guys are allowed to walk with the ball when they get it around the deep arc rather than properly pivot. As long as its not called both ways, it's fine.

[timaios]

It was ok...

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/799x439q90/922/y4pRtB.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/748x424q90/924/ulGkMR.jpg

[Old School 44]

What's up with the refs this season? From the games I've seen, mostly on the Spurs, they have missed a lot of 8 second violations. Just earlier, 80-78 and TP was sleepwalking and crossed the half-court line around the 15 second mark, this isnt the only time with TP. When I watched other games outside the Spurs, the refs seem to miss a lot of these calls as well. What the fuck, some of those are actually game-changing :lol

Good call. I noticed the same thing. The Spurs (mostly Tony) seem to do it a lot. Every once in a while you see Manu catch himself and obviously speed up his dribble to almost jump across. Not sure why they don't call it. Maybe some officials are still thinking it's 10 seconds. The only time they seem to call it is if there's ball pressure with the defensive team trying to get the violation.

It's sort of like how the don't call traveling. I don't know how many times I've seen guys lazily receive the inbounds pass with no backcourt pressure and start to walk without putting the ball on the floor.

[100%duncan]

It was ok...

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/799x439q90/922/y4pRtB.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/748x424q90/924/ulGkMR.jpg

Clock showed 16 before he was fully in, I remember watching it since I watched the replay... Anyways this wasnt the only time like I said. It just peeves me, it's probably the easiest call in the game.

[100%duncan]

Good call. I noticed the same thing. The Spurs (mostly Tony) seem to do it a lot. Every once in a while you see Manu catch himself and obviously speed up his dribble to almost jump across. Not sure why they don't call it. Maybe some officials are still thinking it's 10 seconds. The only time they seem to call it is if there's ball pressure with the defensive team trying to get the violation.

It's sort of like how the don't call traveling. I don't know how many times I've seen guys lazily receive the inbounds pass with no backcourt pressure and start to walk without putting the ball on the floor.

Was it 10 before? All my time watching ball it was 8 iirc. Anyway it could really piss you off if the other team did it :lol

[Old School 44]

Was it 10 before? All my time watching ball it was 8 iirc. Anyway it could really piss you off if the other team did it :lol
It was 10 before, but the change happened some time ago. They made the change to speed up the pace of the games.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I laughed when Tony crossed midcourt once and the clock clearly read 15 before he did. It didn't affect the outcome, as they missed the shot.

[Mr. Body]

I don't get the rule, to be honest. If a team wants to waste the shot clock hanging in the backcourt, let them

[100%duncan]

Yeah, I laughed when Tony crossed midcourt once and the clock clearly read 15 before he did. It didn't affect the outcome, as they missed the shot.

Yeah. I swear he was late. It has happened against the okc home game too, to kawhi and parker iirc.

[100%duncan]

I don't get the rule, to be honest. If a team wants to waste the shot clock hanging in the backcourt, let them

It's usually for late-game situations when you want to trap or anytime for that matter tbh. It's for the other team.

[Mr. Body]

It's usually for late-game situations when you want to trap or anytime for that matter tbh. It's for the other team.

NBA players are way too good to be trapped. I can see some value in college and high school but with the pros it's not a big deal.

[100%duncan]

NBA players are way too good to be trapped. I can see some value in college and high school but with the pros it's not a big deal.

It has happened though.

[polandprzem]

Clock showed 16 before he was fully in, I remember watching it since I watched the replay... Anyways this wasnt the only time like I said. It just peeves me, it's probably the easiest call in the game.
Clock needs to show 15 for the violation

[100%duncan]

Clock needs to show 15 for the violation

uhh 8 second violation 24-8=16 isnt that how it works

[Chinook]

uhh 8 second violation 24-8=16 isnt that how it works

The shot clock counts by tenths of a second now. So 24 is only on there for a flash, while 16 is on there for a full second. The complete time doesn't elapse until the clock reads 15.9, which shows up as 15 on the TV clock.

[Seventyniner]

NBA players are way too good to be trapped. I can see some value in college and high school but with the pros it's not a big deal.

Beno Udrih says hi.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The other problem is that the shot clock is above the backboard. There is no way with the current clock layout and referee positioning standards that this will ever be an accurate call. As someone who has refereed a ton of basketball games I can tell you that no one makes that call by using a clock. You count to yourself while watching for other far more common transgressions. You err on the side of giving too much time, so if it is close you give it to the offense. If they wanted to ensure that the call was made correctly you just need to put an 8-second clock at half court that would light up at 8 seconds. Then the officials line of sight could include ball, player, line and clock.

[Chinook]

I think the refs get it pretty right. From watching YouTube vids of NBA eight-second calls, it seems like the one of the refs runs to the line and watches the clock while waiting for the player to pass them. I'm sure they make some little misjudgments in timing, but that seems like a good enough system.

[TheDoctor]

uhh 8 second violation 24-8=16 isnt that how it works
Exactly. The rule says you got 8 secs to pass the half-court. Not 7. You are legal from 24 to 16.0. The clock needs to show 15 (9 secs) for the violation.

[polandprzem]

The shot clock counts by tenths of a second now. So 24 is only on there for a flash, while 16 is on there for a full second. The complete time doesn't elapse until the clock reads 15.9, which shows up as 15 on the TV clock.

Yup :tu

[SpursforSix]

I think the refs get it pretty right. From watching YouTube vids of NBA eight-second calls, it seems like the one of the refs runs to the line and watches the clock while waiting for the player to pass them. I'm sure they make some little misjudgments in timing, but that seems like a good enough system.

If there's no ball pressure, I don't even care if they are watching the clock. But instead just the manual count. Doesn't really affect anything.

[100%duncan]

Aight thanks for clearing it up fams

[Chinook]

Aight thanks for clearing it up fams

De rien. It's the least we could do to repay you for your sig.

[travis2]

Exactly. The rule says you got 8 secs to pass the half-court. Not 7. You are legal from 24 to 16.0. The clock needs to show 15 (9 secs) for the violation.

This is correct. I also understand it is called much like the delay of game penalty in football, in that the official (1) sees the clock, (2) sees the player, (3) then calls the violation. So there is usually a bit of slop on the long side.

[TDomination]

Exactly. The rule says you got 8 secs to pass the half-court. Not 7. You are legal from 24 to 16.0. The clock needs to show 15 (9 secs) for the violation.

Thanks for the clarification.

I always thought it was a violation when 16 was shown.

[Chinook]

This is correct. I also understand it is called much like the delay of game penalty in football, in that the official (1) sees the clock, (2) sees the player, (3) then calls the violation. So there is usually a bit of slop on the long side.

It actually used to be 16 when the shot clock didn't count tenths of seconds. Then the clock would read 24 from 24.0 to 23.1, after which it would change to 23 and so on. Now that it's shifted to where the clock is up at 0.0 rather than 0, you get a lot of instances where the players look to be violating the rules.

As far as the comparison to delays of game, I don't entirely agree. I think NBA refs are actually anticipating a lot more than NFL refs are coached to. In the videos I've seen online, the refs are looking at the clock rather than the players when it gets close. There might be a more-coordinated way they handle it, but it seems like they don't have that extra step of looking at the man that you see in the NFL.

[Chinook]

Thanks for the clarification.

I always thought it was a violation when 16 was shown.


It actually used to be 16 when the shot clock didn't count tenths of seconds. Then the clock would read 24 from 24.0 to 23.1, after which it would change to 23 and so on. Now that it's shifted to where the clock is up at 0.0 rather than 0, you get a lot of instances where the players look to be violating the rules.

[100%duncan]

De rien. It's the least we could do to repay you for your sig.

:lol :tu

[polandprzem]

It actually used to be 16 when the shot clock didn't count tenths of seconds. Then the clock would read 24 from 24.0 to 23.1, after which it would change to 23 and so on. Now that it's shifted to where the clock is up at 0.0 rather than 0, you get a lot of instances where the players look to be violating the rules.
.

Damn exactly. I forgot about that :)

[polandprzem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGSiEEpF3WM

[Kawhitstorm]

Clock showed 16 before he was fully in, I remember watching it since I watched the replay... Anyways this wasnt the only time like I said. It just peeves me, it's probably the easiest call in the game.

He did it against the Worriers & JVG was screaming about it.:lol

I don't understand why he does it when there is ZERO pressure, probably dreaming about his post-game meal.:whine:hungry:

[cjw]

As far as the comparison to delays of game, I don't entirely agree. I think NBA refs are actually anticipating a lot more than NFL refs are coached to. In the videos I've seen online, the refs are looking at the clock rather than the players when it gets close. There might be a more-coordinated way they handle it, but it seems like they don't have that extra step of looking at the man that you see in the NFL.

Delay of games in the NFL (and clock management in general) are a complete joke. The officials have too much to look at to care delay of game - should honestly be called from an official upstairs. Generally do need to work more on the clock running correctly. They generally don't seem to care as long as it's not in the last two minutes and still bungle half the decisions inside of two.

[Kawhitstorm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGSiEEpF3WM

That would be the equivalent of the refs waving of D-West's 3 at the end of the 1st quarter.:wow

[TampaDude]

I was never a big fan of the Jordan Bulls, but I'm so glad Stockton and Malone never rang. They were two of the dirtiest players in the game. Fuck them.

REMEMBER THE ELBOW!!!!!

[tbdog]

Clock showed 16 before he was fully in, I remember watching it since I watched the replay... Anyways this wasnt the only time like I said. It just peeves me, it's probably the easiest call in the game.


But 15 is the violation, not 16.

[baseline bum]

I was going nuts the whole fourth watching Tony cut it to the last second every time. It still makes my blood boil thinking about the time Jason Hart didn't cross the halfcourt line in time and cost the Spurs a huge possession against the Lakers in that 2OT game in 2003-04. :lol

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200311060SAS.html

[z0sa]

Clock showed 16 before he was fully in, I remember watching it since I watched the replay... Anyways this wasnt the only time like I said. It just peeves me, it's probably the easiest call in the game.

You only need one toe across the line before 8 seconds is up.

[lilbthebasedgod]

The refs have discretion to not call every foul or violation that happens.

Calling 8 seconds should only be a thing if its egregious imo. It already hurts them because of the 24 second running out.

[TheDoctor]

You only need one toe across the line before 8 seconds is up.
Actually, I think it's the ball that has to be on the other half before the violation.

[polandprzem]

Actually, I think it's the ball that has to be on the other half before the violation.
ball or possession

[polandprzem]

So in the TP case he needs to be on the ofensive half court

[polandprzem]

That would be the equivalent of the refs waving of D-West's 3 at the end of the 1st quarter.:wow

?

[BanditHiro]

The refs have discretion to not call every foul or violation that happens.

Calling 8 seconds should only be a thing if its egregious imo. It already hurts them because of the 24 second running out.

yeah it's one of those rules that should only be called if a team is applying a full court press

[z0sa]

Actually, I think it's the ball that has to be on the other half before the violation.

I always thought the rule said possession, which i construe as a toe over the line. Might depend on the refs interpretation, i guess.

[Chinook]

Pretty sure ALL of the player and ball have to be across the line.

[travis2]

Pretty sure ALL of the player and ball have to be across the line.

Correct.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection c: A ball being held by a player: (1) is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt, (2) is in the backcourt if either the ball or player is touching the backcourt.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection d: A ball being dribbled is (1) in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the player are in the frontcourt, (2) in the backcourt if the ball or either foot of the player is in the backcourt.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection e: The ball is considered in the frontcourt once it has broken the plane of the midcourt line and is not in player control.

[z0sa]

Correct.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection c: A ball being held by a player: (1) is in the frontcourt if neither the ball nor the player is touching the backcourt, (2) is in the backcourt if either the ball or player is touching the backcourt.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection d: A ball being dribbled is (1) in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the player are in the frontcourt, (2) in the backcourt if the ball or either foot of the player is in the backcourt.

Rule 4, Section V, subsection e: The ball is considered in the frontcourt once it has broken the plane of the midcourt line and is not in player control.

Thanks for clarifying. Of course, refs rarely call it this strictly.

[GSH]

I remember a game a few seasons ago where the refs actually stopped the clock with 15 seconds left, and they didn't call the 8 seconds. I don't remember if it was a foul, or a timeout, but the freaking clock showed 15. Pop had veins bulging out on his neck, but the refs weren't listening to any of that. They didn't re-set the clock, either. Just let the other team inbound the ball and kept playing.

[polandprzem]

ball or possession

[travis2]

ball or possession

If the ball is under player control (held or dribbling), subsections c and/or d apply and ball and both feet must be across the line.

If the ball is not under player control (eg, being passed, loose on the floor, etc.), then subsection e applies and only the ball needs to be across the line.

[Kawhitstorm]

?

They waived off the 3 the Jazz hit at the buzzer (they didn't have "replay reviews" in 1997) which cost them the game as the Bulls won on the "Jordan Jump Shot".

The difference in Tuesday's Jazz/Spurs game was D-West's 3 to end the 1st quarter as the Spurs won by 2.

[polandprzem]

They waived off the 3 the Jazz hit at the buzzer (they didn't have "replay reviews" in 1997) which cost them the game as the Bulls won on the "Jordan Jump Shot".

The difference in Tuesday's Jazz/Spurs game was D-West's 3 to end the 1st quarter as the Spurs won by 2.

They do review everything now :)

Yea well they waived off Eisley shot which clearly! was in time and they counted Harpers one which was after the shot clock buzzer

[polandprzem]

If the ball is under player control (held or dribbling), subsections c and/or d apply and ball and both feet must be across the line.

If the ball is not under player control (eg, being passed, loose on the floor, etc.), then subsection e applies and only the ball needs to be across the line.

That is what I am saying.

lately I went through the interpretation of the rules because of the situation in a game I was playing so I get it .