Bill Bennett Has Lost it

[Nbadan]

Bill Bennett: "You could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down"



BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006)

First the gambling, now the rambling.

Using Bill Bennet's logic wouldn't aborting all babies eliminate crime altogether?

More from Media Matters..


Bennett's remark was apparently inspired by the claim that legalized abortion has reduced crime rates, which was posited in the book Freakonomics (William Morrow, May 2005) by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner. But Levitt and Dubner argued that aborted fetuses would have been more likely to grow up poor and in single-parent or teenage-parent households and therefore more likely to commit crimes; they did not put forth Bennett's race-based argument.

Well, I guess so...

[jochhejaam]

What could possibly cause someone to air a view like that in public? Even though he qualified the statement it still opens him up to criticism from all fronts.

It's like saying if we killed all of the poor people in the world there would be no poverty. In a sordid, twisted way there may be some truth to it but why publicly hypothesize about something that extreme and reprenhensible?

[SpursWoman]

That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

You forgot to hightlite that part, too, Dan. :)

[Jelly]

What could possibly cause someone to air a view like that in public? Even though he qualified the statement it still opens him up to criticism from all fronts.

It's like saying if we killed all of the poor people in the world there would be no poverty. In a sordid, twisted way there may be some truth to it but why publicly hypothesize about something that extreme and reprenhensible?

I guess he's just commenting on the book Freakonomics, which has caused a huge stir and is a national bestseller. Obviously, there are some controversial topics in there, but the author Steven Levitt offers some fascinating data. It's a great book IMO. Still, most public figures have wisely (for their careers anyway) stayed away from the topic.

[jochhejaam]

I guess he's just commenting on the book Freakonomics, which has caused a huge stir and is a national bestseller. Obviously, there are some controversial topics in there, but the author Steven Levitt offers some fascinating data. It's a great book IMO. Still, most public figures have wisely (for their careers anyway) stayed away from the topic.


Ah, okay, not a Bennet original, thanks.

Sounds like interesting reading.

[Yonivore]

Incarcerating criminals has reduced the crime rate. Incarcerations up; crime down. It's that simple...

[scott]

Levitt is a University of Chicago economist who has been recognized as one of the top young economists around - for good reason. He is willing to probe into data and tackle questions that are tricky. His data and analysis suggests a high correlation in the decrease in the crime rate with the passage of Roe v. Wade, and several other correlations that are present suggest some causality.

[Yonivore]

Levitt is a University of Chicago economist who has been recognized as one of the top young economists around - for good reason. He is willing to probe into data and tackle questions that are tricky. His data and analysis suggests a high correlation in the decrease in the crime rate with the passage of Roe v. Wade, and several other correlations that are present suggest some causality.
Love the blog scott. How's the contest coming?

Oh, and does this Levitt character also ascribe to the so-called "Roe Effect?" Which, to paraphrase, states that since most pro-abortionists are Democrats and most children adopt the ideological bent of their parents, they have aborted themselves into being the minority party...perhaps in perpetuity.

[scott]

Love the blog scott. How's the contest coming?

Thanks - I try to have fun with it. I never would have thought blogging would be any fun, but it is a good avenue to discuss completely pointless topics.


Oh, and does this Levitt character also ascribe to the so-called "Roe Effect?" Which, to paraphrase, states that since most pro-abortionists are Democrats and most children adopt the ideological bent of their parents, they have aborted themselves into being the minority party...perhaps in perpetuity.

The "Roe Effect" as you described is not something Levitt comments on, but I would imagine that he doens't "ascribe" to it because the logic of the arguement, while seemingly sound on the surface, doesn't dig deep enough. To me, it's similar to a "let gays get married to each other so they can be bred (via non-breeding) out of existence" argument - which doesn't hold much water. Back to the "Roe Effect" in a minute while I go off on a tanget about what Levitt suggests.

Levitt is known for not really ascribing to anything other than what data suggests - that those to-be-children that are aborted are more likely to grow up in environments that have demonstrated a higher propensity for crime - more specifically, poverty, single-parent households, and low maternal education demonstrate high correlations with the propensity for crime.

Now, as for the "Roe Effect" as a possible explanation for the Democratic party's fall from power... voter participation rates among the demographic the aborted children would likely have belonged to is fairly low, so to say that abortion is lowering the Democrat's voter base is quite a reach. Across generations, we see that as people grow older, then tend to be more conservative and less liberal (hence the phrase that goes something like: "If you aren't a liberal at 25, you don't have a heart. If you aren't a conservative at 45, you don't have a brain.") If we took cross sections over the past 100 years of the American population, we would see that older populations, especially those in their 30s-60s tend to lean more towards the more conservative party. Not surprisingly, the Republican's current "rise to power" has coincided with the aging of the American populus. Since America will continue to be on an aging trend in the next 10-20 years, it would not at all surprise me to see the more convservative party (currently the Republican party) to grow in power in that time period. I think the "Roe Effect" is a cute theory, but one without much merit.

[boutons]

September 30, 2005
White House Criticizes Bennett for Remarks on Race
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 11:02 a.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

''The president believes the comments were not appropriate,'' White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Bennett, on his radio show, ''Morning in America,'' was answering a caller's question when he took issue with the hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason crime is down is that abortion is up.

''But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down,'' said Bennett, author of ''The Book of Virtues.''

He went on to call that ''an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.''

Responding later to criticism, Bennett said his comments had been mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea of supporting abortion to reduce crime was ''morally reprehensible.''

Bennett was education secretary under President Reagan and director of drug control policy when Bush's father was president.

[Spurminator]

Using Bill Bennet's logic wouldn't aborting all babies eliminate crime altogether?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that seems to be his point.

This sounds like a lot of PC hubbub over nothing. I mean, obviously if you reduce the population growth the crime rate will go down. Just because he said "black" makes his point wrong?

[TheSuckUp]

I love William Bennet

[boutons]

" "black" makes his point wrong"

Of course. An aborted person commits no crime, but an aborted BLACK person commits even less crime. See the %age of blacks in US population vs see the %age blacks in prison population, is his point. Not only do blacks commit more crime, but once they are in prison, they cost $30K/year to keep them there. That $30K is wasted when it could be given to the rich + corpts in tax cuts.

Aborted blacks = less crime, while aborted whites = a sin.

And as Barbara Bush would say, let's abort the blacks because they would be "underprivileged anyway".

Repubs, ya gotta love how they stick their feet in their mouths.

[Spurminator]

Like I said, I think all of you are missing his point altogether and are rushing to interpret the statements of a conservative pundit in a way that makes it seem like what he said was racist.

He was giving an example of a morally reprehensible thing to do. He said it himself.

[Nbadan]

He was giving an example of a morally reprehensible thing to do. He said it himself.

If it's so 'morally reprehensible' then why did Bennet mention it in the first place? Especially right now, after African-Americans suffered so disproportionately to Hurricane Katrina. It was a really insensitive thing for Bennet to say

[boutons]

"only ... example of a morally reprehensible thing"

BS. His example of eugenics, of selective abortion based on black race as a crime reduction strategy, to improve the USA is reprehensible. His example is NOT harmless. It's pure, unmitigated racism, no matter how slyly he slips it in, apparently disowing it but really not at all.

How about this:

If we wanted fewer corrupt Repub administrations spending the federal government into disaster, no bogus wars of choice, we could abort all Repub and red-state babies. That would be "impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do". And they are all "over-privileged" anyway. But it would work. It's JUST an example. :)

[nkdlunch]

So if we wanna reduce bad dancing in America we should abort all white babies?

[cheguevara]

So if we wanna reduce bad dancing in America we should abort all white babies?

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Murphy]

Keep in mind, its the liberals who want aboriton kept legal. Its the liberals who want the murder of of innocent unborn infants. Its the liberals who say "what about the rights of the woman" but never say any thing about the rights of the unborn woman in the pregnant mothers womb. In other words, this comment wouldnt have occured if abortion was illegal.

[cheguevara]

In other words, this comment wouldnt have occured if abortion was illegal.

WTF??? His comment would have still occurred regardless. Abortion is not the issue, it's him saying that if there were less black ppl, there would be less crime.

[boutons]

"its the liberals who want aboriton kept legal."

Murphy, you cretinous, ultra-violent, sub-human robot.

Repub, evangelical, red-stater, conservative women and girls ALSO have abortions. They, and their husbands/parents, are damn happy they can have it cheaply down the road (not overseas) and that it was legal, rather than with a coat-hanger and illegal.

Now you will erroneously conclude that I am a militant pro-abortionist.

[Spurminator]

If it's so 'morally reprehensible' then why did Bennet mention it in the first place?

Because he was discussing a study that he found to be morally reprehensible, and giving a comparative example to illustrate how morally reprehensible it is.


His example of eugenics, of selective abortion based on black race as a crime reduction strategy, to improve the USA is reprehensible.

You still don't get it.

It was an illustration. Not a suggestion.

[Spurminator]

It's like if we're having an argument over health care illegal aliens and I (taking the pro-Health Care side) say "Why don't we just shoot Mexicans at the border? Then we wouldn't have to worry about any of our taxes helping illegal aliens."

Am I suddenly a racist for using that point to argue against my opposition?

[Dos]

dam it's freaking tense in here today.. must be because of the Yanks / Bo Sox's series this weekend..

go yanks!!!!

[cheguevara]

It's like if we're having an argument over health care illegal aliens and I (taking the pro-Health Care side) say "Why don't we just shoot Mexicans at the border? Then we wouldn't have to worry about any of our taxes helping illegal aliens."

Am I suddenly a racist for using that point to argue against my opposition?

yes, if you consider that statement a "point"

[Spurminator]

Well touche, that was convincing.

[Extra Stout]

I get Bennett's point. Poorly worded, but it's a point. To those of you too stupid to understand, he was using an example to say that an atrocity doesn't become OK because there may be a few beneficial side effects. It's still an atrocity.

It's like saying let's euthanize all the sick elderly in order to keep Medicare costs down. It's reductio ad absurdum.

As far as aborting all black babies go, in this country we're already halfway there. Maybe it's not so bad he brings this up if we can get that fact out there. That's right, 50% of black pregnancies in the United States end up in induced abortion.

So which is worse, a hypothetical atrocity that comes from conservative rhetoric, or an actual atrocity that comes from liberal policy?

[Spurminator]

I should have just waited until Extra Stout posted before I bothered.

Well said.

[Useruser666]

Poor Spurm. What's a good anology for geeting run over by people when your just trying to explain something to them? :lol

[Spurminator]

Poor Spurm. What's a good anology for geeting run over by people when your just trying to explain something to them?

"Aborting the messenger's baby"?

[Nbadan]

I get Bennett's point. Poorly worded, but it's a point. To those of you too stupid to understand, he was using an example to say that an atrocity doesn't become OK because there may be a few beneficial side effects. It's still an atrocity.

It's like saying let's euthanize all the sick elderly in order to keep Medicare costs down. It's reductio ad absurdum.

As far as aborting all black babies go, in this country we're already halfway there. Maybe it's not so bad he brings this up if we can get that fact out there. That's right, 50% of black pregnancies in the United States end up in induced abortion.

So which is worse, a hypothetical atrocity that comes from conservative rhetoric, or an actual atrocity that comes from liberal policy?

Let's not make blanket statements without some facts please. It's easy to say 50% of whatever race winds up being aborted, but if your gonna make such a blanket condemnation in the forum please provide statistics to back up your claim.

Unless I am mistaken, we have had a Republican President and a Republican-controlled legislature for for a few years now, and, oh my gosh, abortion is still legal!

[SpursWoman]

link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9535204/)


White House criticizes Bennett for comments
Ex-education secretary tied crime rate to aborting black babies


Updated: 1:16 p.m. ET Sept. 30, 2005

WASHINGTON - The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

“The president believes the comments were not appropriate,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Bennett, on his radio show, “Morning in America,” was answering a caller’s question when he took issue with the hypothesis put forth in a recent book that one reason crime is down is that abortion is up.

“But I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down,” said Bennett, author of “The Book of Virtues.”

He went on to call that “an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.”

Democrats demand apology

On Thursday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and other Democrats demanded that Bennett apologize for the remarks.

Responding later to criticism, Bennett said his comments had been mischaracterized and that his point was that the idea of supporting abortion to reduce crime was “morally reprehensible.”

On his show Thursday, Bennett, who opposes abortion, said he was “pointing out that abortion should not be opposed for economic reasons any more than racism ... should be supported or opposed for economic reasons. Immoral policies are wrong because they are wrong, not because of an economic calculation.”

Reid, D-Nev., said he was “appalled by Mr. Bennett’s remarks” and called on him “to issue an immediate apology not only to African Americans but to the nation.”

Rep. Raum Emanuel, D-Ill., said in a statement, “At the very time our country yearns for national unity in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, these comments reflect a spirit of hate and division.”

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[Useruser666]

"Aborting the messenger's baby"?

Good one. I was thinking, don't be the first Lemming!

[SpursWoman]

Nature's Retard?

[Useruser666]

Shooting yourself in the head would be crazy!

I apologize for telling people to go shoot themselves in the head.

[JoeChalupa]

Even the smartest of men have dumb things come out of their pie-holes.

The wife didn't care much what he said but understood that he was trying to make a point but he could have also stated that we could abort all "white" babies and the crime rate would go down.

The White House has responded.

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

[Spurminator]

I'm perplexed as to why the White House felt this was an issue that needed to be addressed.

[Useruser666]

I'm perplexed as to why the White House felt this was an issue that needed to be addressed.

They have to bend over for all the people posting in here that it was a terrible racial insult. You can't defend yourself in politics, you just have to be the best apologizer you can be.

[xrayzebra]

Let's not make blanket statements without some facts please. It's easy to say 50% of whatever race winds up being aborted, but if your gonna make such a blanket condemnation in the forum please provide statistics to back up your claim.

Unless I am mistaken, we have had a Republican President and a Republican-controlled legislature for for a few years now, and, oh my gosh, abortion is still legal!

I will give you one big fact. The uproar over Bill Bennetts statement taken out of context is the norm for Dimm-o-craps. Bye the way, where is your outrage about KKK Byrd reference to white ######s. Hmmmmmm? Bill Bennett said nothing wrong and he has every right to say what he likes. He was scorning the very thought of aborting anyone. You wouldn't understand that because it offends your moral's. Or what you call moral's.
Get a friggin life and get off "stuck on stupid".

[Nbadan]

63% think Bill Bennet's comments were offensive and reprehensible:

Do you think William Bennett's comments are reprehensible? * 8967 responses


Yes 63%
No 37%

Thank you for voting. Click to send us an e-mail to share your thoughts. Plus, see past voting results.

Tune in to MSNBC for the latest analysis. This is not a scientifically valid survey. Click to learn more.

MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey)

[JoeChalupa]

I will give you one big fact. The uproar over Bill Bennetts statement taken out of context is the norm for Dimm-o-craps. Bye the way, where is your outrage about KKK Byrd reference to white ######s. Hmmmmmm? Bill Bennett said nothing wrong and he has every right to say what he likes. He was scorning the very thought of aborting anyone. You wouldn't understand that because it offends your moral's. Or what you call moral's.
Get a friggin life and get off "stuck on stupid".

Every reference that I've read or listened to was NOT taken out of context and included the entire statement. Springer played it in it's entirety as did Allen Combs. If you personally don't find it offensive that is your own opinion and feeling. While others, such as my wife did find it offensive.

While your calling me a dimm-o-crap is childish and un-called for, I respect your opinion.

[Spurminator]

:lol

Thanks for the internet poll, Dan.

Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the country did find his comments offensive. Most likely because they don't understand what he was saying.

Similar polls showed that a lot of Americans thought Iraq bombed the WTC.

[Useruser666]

I wonder how many people even heard the comments in context, or know what reprehensible means?

Oh and... "This is not a scientifically valid survey."

[Useruser666]

Every reference that I've read or listened to was NOT taken out of context and included the entire statement. Springer played it in it's entirety as did Allen Combs. If you personally don't find it offensive that is your own opinion and feeling. While others, such as my wife did find it offensive.

While your calling me a dimm-o-crap is childish and un-called for, I respect your opinion.

Joe, I could maybe understand a "shock" to what he said at first, but he basically said to lower the crime rate by aborting black babies was crazy. He was trying to give an example of another off the wall cause-effect theory to compare it to the one he was asked about. He never presented the abortion idea as his own or that it was right in any manner what so ever. People seem to be missing that.

[xrayzebra]

Every reference that I've read or listened to was NOT taken out of context and included the entire statement. Springer played it in it's entirety as did Allen Combs. If you personally don't find it offensive that is your own opinion and feeling. While others, such as my wife did find it offensive.

While your calling me a dimm-o-crap is childish and un-called for, I respect your opinion.

Oh, thank you for allowing me to have my own opinion. There is real meaning to my spelling of dimm-o-crap.

dimm=never seem to get their light turned on bright.
crap=what they spout at all times.

I haven't heard one dimm-o-crap tell me what they want to do with our country except tear it down and put it down. They offer no alternative plan, just critize every person or plan put forth by the present administration. I will tell you what is really sad: they put down the very people who they say are not given a break in life. We have three of most distinguished Americans in the world who happen to also be black and in every case the dimm-o-craps could do nothing but tell all American what no good, unqualified people they were. Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Clarence Thomas. They are already saying they are going to fillbuster any normination Bush makes for the supreme court. So tell me one more time how you are offended. Just don't hold your breath while you wait or a "I'm Sorry, I hurt you feelings" cause blue isn't my color of choice.

[Spurminator]

"dimm-o-crap" is almost as bad as "shrub". Maybe worse.

Just for the record.

[cheguevara]

Every reference that I've read or listened to was NOT taken out of context and included the entire statement. Springer played it in it's entirety as did Allen Combs. If you personally don't find it offensive that is your own opinion and feeling. While others, such as my wife did find it offensive.

While your calling me a dimm-o-crap is childish and un-called for, I respect your opinion.

great post. Everyone has the right to their opinion.

[Useruser666]

If all the effort that went into thinking up these nicknames went into listening to the otherside's views we might get somewhere.

[xrayzebra]

"dimm-o-crap" is almost as bad as "shrub". Maybe worse.

Just for the record.

I don't think Mr. Bush worry's too much about it, just so long as they refer to him as Mr. President for three more years..... :lol

[JoeChalupa]

Oh, thank you for allowing me to have my own opinion. There is real meaning to my spelling of dimm-o-crap.

dimm=never seem to get their light turned on bright.
crap=what they spout at all times.

I haven't heard one dimm-o-crap tell me what they want to do with our country except tear it down and put it down. They offer no alternative plan, just critize every person or plan put forth by the present administration. I will tell you what is really sad: they put down the very people who they say are not given a break in life. We have three of most distinguished Americans in the world who happen to also be black and in every case the dimm-o-craps could do nothing but tell all American what no good, unqualified people they were. Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Clarence Thomas. They are already saying they are going to fillbuster any normination Bush makes for the supreme court. So tell me one more time how you are offended. Just don't hold your breath while you wait or a "I'm Sorry, I hurt you feelings" cause blue isn't my color of choice.

I'm not holding my breath and I'm not asking for an apology and I have thick skin too. But your:

dimm=never seem to get their light turned on bright.
crap=what they spout at all times.

Can easily be applied to some republicans.

And I've always said that I'd vote for Colin Powell and have the highest respect for Condi and Thomas so don't lump me into your hatred of democrats. I sure am not going to lump you in with all conservative republicans because I know too many who don't think like you do.

I respect your opinions so go on with your bad self. Kudos!!!!

[SpursWoman]

"dimm-o-crap" is almost as bad as "shrub". Maybe worse.

Just for the record.


I'm going with worse ... shrub is just a synonym of bush, although it is on par with Repug...ie, repugnant.

:fro

[JoeChalupa]

If all the effort that went into thinking up these nicknames went into listening to the otherside's views we might get somewhere.

I concur.

[xrayzebra]

I'm not holding my breath and I'm not asking for an apology and I have thick skin too. But your:

dimm=never seem to get their light turned on bright.
crap=what they spout at all times.

Can easily be applied to some republicans.

And I've always said that I'd vote for Colin Powell and have the highest respect for Condi and Thomas so don't lump me into your hatred of democrats. I sure am not going to lump you in with all conservative republicans because I know too many who don't think like you do.

I respect your opinions so go on with your bad self. Kudos!!!!

I have no hatred of democrats. But I do despise the fact that they will not give any credit to those deserving it. I despise they fact that they uphold and prase those who have done some terrible things in their life. Teddy Kennedy comes to mind. Barney Frank who, it is said, his male compainion ran a whore hose out of Barney's home. Or Bill Clinton who had oral sex while talking on the phone with a congressman. Who lied and was found guilty of comtempt of court by the way. I could name more but those are just some of the things I resent. Most of todays Democrats wouldn't hold a candel to the Democrats of old. They were more conservative than I would ever hope to be. I have good reason to despise the Dimm-o-craps of today. They have few morals, are racist, and generally want the U.S. of A. to be totally defeated, unless they get their power back.

[cheguevara]

If you beleive all Dems are like that, you're in a sad state :lol

[xrayzebra]

If you beleive all Dems are like that, you're in a sad state :lol

Can you show me one who isn't that way, or tell me one. Just one, please. I will be open minded about your reply.

[JoeChalupa]

I have no hatred of democrats. But I do despise the fact that they will not give any credit to those deserving it. I despise they fact that they uphold and prase those who have done some terrible things in their life. Teddy Kennedy comes to mind. Barney Frank who, it is said, his male compainion ran a whore hose out of Barney's home. Or Bill Clinton who had oral sex while talking on the phone with a congressman. Who lied and was found guilty of comtempt of court by the way. I could name more but those are just some of the things I resent. Most of todays Democrats wouldn't hold a candel to the Democrats of old. They were more conservative than I would ever hope to be. I have good reason to despise the Dimm-o-craps of today. They have few morals, are racist, and generally want the U.S. of A. to be totally defeated, unless they get their power back.

Well, I'm a democrat and think I have pretty good morals, but won't push mine on you, am not a racist, believe in a strong America but don't believe in going after the wrong country on shady grounds.
I tend to give the people the benefit of the doubt such as Bush. I don't care if used to drink booze and snort cocaine, alledgedly, in his prior younger years or that his service in the Guard is suspect. I don't give a rat's ass.
What matters to me is how he is performing NOW.
And while I find cheating on one's spouse morally wrong I don't think it has anything to do with one's performance on the job. Maybe getting oral sex relaxed Bill and cleared his head so maybe Monica was doing service for her country. Who am I to say?
There are those in the republican party who are praised such as Giuliani who himself has committed adultery but again, what does that have to do with his performance as the Mayor of NYC. NONE!
But he is still praised and loved by conservatives. No?

[JoeChalupa]

Can you show me one who isn't that way, or tell me one. Just one, please. I will be open minded about your reply.

Hate to be conceited by I'm one. At least I feel I am.

[Useruser666]

Joe, try reading this statement.

http://www.bennettmornings.com/agnosticchart?charttype=minichart&chartID=11&formatID=1&size=3&useMiniChartID=true&destinationpage=/pg/jsp/general/featured.jsp#0


Statement By Bill Bennett, Sep. 30, 2005
From the Desk of William J. Bennett September 30, 2005

"On Wednesday, a caller to my radio show proposed the idea that one good argument for the pro-life position would be that if we didn't have abortions, Social Security would be solvent. I stated my doubts about such a thesis, as well as my opposition to such a form of argument (the audio of the call is available at my Website: bennettmornings.com).

"I then stated that such extrapolations of this argument can cut both ways, and cited the current bestseller, Freakonomics, which discusses the authors' thesis that abortion reduces crime.

"Then, putting my philosophy professor's hat on, I went on to reveal the limitations of such arguments by showing the absurdity in another such argument, along the same lines. I entertained what law school professors call 'the Socratic method' and what I would hope good social science professors still use in their seminars. In so doing, I suggested a hypothetical analogy while at the same time saying the proposition I was using about blacks and abortion was 'impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible,' just to ensure those who would have any doubt about what they were hearing, or for those who tuned in to the middle of the conversation.

"The issues of crime and race have been on many people's minds, and tongues, for the past month or so--in light of the situation in New Orleans; and the issues of race, crime, and abortion are well aired and ventilated in articles, the academy, the think tank community, and public policy. Indeed the whole issue of crime and race is not new in social science, nor popular literature. One of the authors of Freakonomics, himself, had an extended exchange on the discussion of these issues on the Internet some years back--which was also much debated in the think tank community in Washington.

"A thought experiment about public policy, on national radio, should not have received the condemnations it has. Anyone paying attention to this debate should be offended by those who have selectively quoted me, distorted my meaning, and taken out of context the dialogue I engaged in this week. Such distortions from 'leaders' of organizations and parties is a disgrace not only to the organizations and institutions they serve, but to the First Amendment.

"In sum, let me reiterate what I had hoped my long career had already established: that I renounce all forms of bigotry--and that my record in trying to provide opportunities for, as well as save the lives of, minorities in this country stands up just fine."

[JoeChalupa]

Can you show me one who isn't that way, or tell me one. Just one, please. I will be open minded about your reply.

The fact is that you may not agree even if I did.

Can you show me one republican who isn't a war hungry, racist, hates the poor bastard? No, because no matter who you say you cannot prove it because you, as well as I, have no idea what is in that person's heart or mind. Oh, we can speculate but you'd speculate that they aren't that way while I may speculate that they are.

Just a matter of opinion.

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, try reading this statement.

http://www.bennettmornings.com/agnosticchart?charttype=minichart&chartID=11&formatID=1&size=3&useMiniChartID=true&destinationpage=/pg/jsp/general/featured.jsp#0

I watched his response on Hannity and Colmes last night and was satisfied as was the wife. The initial "shock" of the statement is what made us say to each other, "Huh, wtf did he just say."
Again, I accept his response.

[Useruser666]

I was surprised as much by the comments as by the backlash that to me atleast, seemed mostly unfounded.

[Extra Stout]

Let's not make blanket statements without some facts please. It's easy to say 50% of whatever race winds up being aborted, but if your gonna make such a blanket condemnation in the forum please provide statistics to back up your claim.After checking CDC data, I must revise my original statement. I was off by 11%.

Among non-Hispanic blacks, year 2000

607,000 live births
488,000 induced abortions
177,000 miscarriages

1,272,000 total pregnancies

48% live births
39% induced abortions
13% miscarriages

804 abortions per 1,000 live births

Those are still some horrendous statistics.


Unless I am mistaken, we have had a Republican President and a Republican-controlled legislature for for a few years now, and, oh my gosh, abortion is still legal!Oh, do they let Presidents and Congresses dismiss Supreme Court justices now? Can we fire Ginsburg and Stevens please?

[Nbadan]

Oh, do they let Presidents and Congresses dismiss Supreme Court justices now? Can we fire Ginsburg and Stevens please?

On please let Roberts and the new SCOJUS outlaw abortion. That would be political suicide for Republicans.

[Spurminator]

That's a pretty high miscarriage rate too, I wonder how many non-clinical abortions are reported as miscarriages.

[Useruser666]

After checking CDC data, I must revise my original statement. I was off by 11%.

Among non-Hispanic blacks, year 2000

607,000 live births
488,000 induced abortions
177,000 miscarriages

1,272,000 total pregnancies

48% live births
39% induced abortions
13% miscarriages

804 abortions per 1,000 live births

Those are still some horrendous statistics.

Oh, do they let Presidents and Congresses dismiss Supreme Court justices now? Can we fire Ginsburg and Stevens please?


How do you get 804 abortions per live births? Or did you mean "to"?

[Spurminator]

I will be shocked if Roe v. Wade is ever reversed. In my opinion it's an election-time hot topic to rile up each party's base on something they can relate to.

But if it is reversed, I will be quite vocal in my opposition.

[Extra Stout]

How do you get 804 abortions per live births? Or did you mean "to"?I divide 488,000 by 607,000 and get 0.804.

The use of "per" in this instance means that for every 1,000 black infants born alive in the U.S. in 2000, there were another 804 fetuses that were killed in an abortion.

[Extra Stout]

On please let Roberts and the new SCOJUS outlaw abortion. That would be political suicide for Republicans.Of course, you know as well as I do that outlawing abortion cold-turkey solves nothing.

[SpursWoman]

Hate to be conceited by I'm one. At least I feel I am.


I vouch for Joe. :)

[Money316]

You forgot to hightlite that part, too, Dan. :)
No he didn't.

Why is it ok in this country for a black man to use race openly and without discretion in his comments without the fear of consequence, but the mere mention of a real weakness in the black community result in the admonishment of a white man?

[JohnnyMarzetti]

No he didn't.

Why is it ok in this country for a black man to use race openly and without discretion in his comments without the fear of consequence, but the mere mention of a real weakness in the black community result in the admonishment of a white man?



Because of the way it was said.

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/CrimestopperBennett.jpg

[ididnotnothat]

Replace "black" with "white" and you'd get the same results.

[Nbadan]

Some more Bill Bennett family values AT WORK...

From Talking Points Memo Cafe...
A true story about Bill Bennett
By Reed Hundt | bio
From: Politics


When I was chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (1993-97), I asked Bill Bennett to visit my office so that I could ask him for help in seeking legislation that would pay for internet access in all classrooms and libraries in the country. Eventually Senators Olympia Snowe and Jay Rockefeller, with the White House leadership of President Clinton and Vice President Gore, put that provision in the Telecommunications Law of 1996, and today nearly 90% of all classrooms and libraries do have such access.

The schools covered were public and private. So far the federal funding (actually collected from everyone as part of the phone bill) has been matched more or less equally with school district funding to total about $20 billion over the last seven years. More than 90% of all teachers praise the impact of such technology on their work. At any rate, since Mr. Bennett had been Secretary of Education I asked him to support the bill in the crucial stage when we needed Republican allies. He told me he would not help, because he did not want public schools to obtain new funding, new capability, new tools for success.

He wanted them, he said, to fail so that they could be replaced with vouchers,charter schools, religious schools, and other forms of private education. Well, I thought, at least he's candid about his true views. The key Senate committee voted almost on party lines on the bill, all D's for and all R's against, except one -- Olympia Snowe. Her support provided the margin of victory. On the House side, Speaker Gingrich made sure the provision was not in the companion bill, but in conference again Senators Snowe and Rockefeller, with White House support, made the difference. The Internet has been the first technology made available to students in poorly funded schools at about the same time and in about the same way as to students in well funded schools.

TMP Cafe (http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/10/1/105329/697)

Just in case your wondering why the U.S. kids really ranked 9th in education in the world.

[Hook Dem]

Some more Bill Bennett family values AT WORK...

From Talking Points Memo Cafe...
A true story about Bill Bennett
By Reed Hundt | bio
From: Politics



TMP Cafe (http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/10/1/105329/697)

Just in case your wondering why the U.S. kids really ranked 9th in education in the world.
Keep digging Dan!You're just a busy beaver!

[jochhejaam]

Replace "black" with "white" and you'd get the same results.


Uhmmm, no.


According to the US Dept. of Justice, prison and jail incarcerations by race in the United States from 2004 were as follows;

The rate for white men was 717 per 100,000, for black men, 4,919 per 100,000. Black men are incarcerated at roughly a 700% higher rate than their white counterparts.
The rate for white women was 81 per 100,000, for black women, 359 per 100,000. Black women incarcerated 350% higher than their white counterparts
Source: Harrison, Paige M., & Allen J. Beck, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, April 2005), p. 2 and p. 11, Table 14.

"In 2001, the chances of going to prison were highest among black males (32.2%) and Hispanic males (17.2%) and lowest among white males (5.9%).
Source: Bonczar, Thomas P., US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Prevalence of Imprisonment in the US Population, 1974-2001," NCJ197976 (Washington DC: US Department of Justice, August 2003), p. 8.



One in three black men between the ages of 20 and 29 years old is under correctional supervision or control. Source: Mauer, M. & Huling, T., Young Black Americans and the Criminal Justice System: Five Years Later (Washington DC: The Sentencing Project, 1995).


http://www.drugwarfacts.org/racepris.htm

[Money316]

Because of the way it was said.

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/CrimestopperBennett.jpg
you dick heads hear what you what to hear. You remind me of those little kids with their eyes closed and hands over their ears screaming "I can't hear you lalalalalalallalalala....."

One dick head says "well I never inhaled", and lets not forget the Intern's mentor who reminded us of the definition of "is". And of course all you dumb MFers just kept on nodding.

[Nbadan]

This letter appeared in Newsday today. I got a kick out of it.

To cut crime: Kill the CEOs?


I was struck by the irony of "Bennett's big mistake" being followed a few pages later by "Convicted former Tyco executives denied bail" . William Bennett suggested on his radio show that aborting all black fetuses would reduce the crime rate, but it would be a reprehensible thing to do.

Of course, Bennett may have been more accurate and less personal by replacing "blacks" with "those without economic opportunity." The Tyco executives were convicted of stealing $150 million from Tyco and manipulating the stock price for another $430 million of gain. Let's see, how many purse-snatchings and pockets picked equals $580 million?

I've read that in this country the average chief executive is compensated 600 times as well as the lowest full-time employee. Is this capitalism or democracy? Is this pay deserved by merit? No, it's cronyism and theft on a grand scale. To reduce the effect of crime, wouldn't it be more cost-effective and save more lives by just killing all the CEOs? Then there's the advice to kill all the lawyers - I guess these are the people who often justify our madness. Maybe we should just kill everybody to solve our problems - or nobody.