Warriors can't defend decently athletic wings.

[midnightpulp]

It seems they've been getting torched lately (and maybe all season, I haven't checked the stats yet) by good, even mediocre, wing players. Wiggins shredded them. Kawhi dropped 23 on 8-12. And Matt Barnes, Lance Stephenson, and Vince Carter all had arguably their best games of the year, at the same fuckin' time :lol

It's not all rosy, though. The Warriors seem to easily deal with low post bigs (Randolph was awful tonight), and if you're not one of the quicker PGs in the league, point guards don't seem to give their overall defense too much trouble. Patty and Tony haven't had one good game against them this season, for example.

So okay, faggots (you know who you are), if Tony isn't going to be that 3rd scoring option, then it's The Client. I mean, an ancient Vince Carter just dropped 15, 7, 4 on 50% shooting. If we can get numbers like that from Manu, consistently, I'm believing again. And yes, the flip side here is what about Danny Green. More Manu, means less Green, and Green is our best Curry defender. Well, Pop is going to have to live up to his genius reputation and get creative with lineups. Beating the Warriors is going to require an unconventional gameplan. Maybe Manu gets some minutes at PG, or Pop employs a small ball lineup with LMA, Kawhi, Green, Manu, Parker/Mills.

All I know is that Manu is going to have to get bigger minutes in that series. And on that point, K-Mart might indeed be an X-Factor.

[apalisoc_9]

You mean to say give the ball to kawhi? Wow...Imagine if our PG understood the term "hot hand"..oh he does, wheb its his hand.

[Benoit]

lmao no

why do you idiots keep ignoring that the only teams that challenge us are mostly bad teams?? we are the anti-Spurs

[Robz4000]

Been saying it all year:

Manu
Green
Leonard
Fathead
Diaw/LMA

[apalisoc_9]

Anderson is going to get minutes.

[midnightpulp]

You mean to say give the ball to kawhi? Wow...Imagine if our PG understood the term "hot hand"..oh he does, wheb its his hand.

You still fail to understand my logic of wanting Tony or Manu or Menke Bateer being that 3rd guy.

When the defense starts loading up on Kawhi, someone else aside from LMA, who might be having trouble of his own, will have to step up and relieve that pressure so that the game opens back up for Leonard.

We ain't beating the Warriors with a 2 man attack and an inconsistent committee.

[DMC]

Everyone needs to stop looking for the silver lining and stop fooling yourselves. The Spurs will be fortunate to get to the WCF. If they win it, that will be a miracle. All the talking head shit about "surprises" is just shit to sell copy. There's no sliver lining, this Warriors team scores when it needs to and even their bench could challenge our starters.

So think about the 1st round, maybe we need to consider that Memphis might be tougher than we need them to be.

[apalisoc_9]

You still fail to understand my logic of wanting Tony or Manu or Menke Bateer being that 3rd guy.

When the defense starts loading up on Kawhi, someone else aside from LMA, who might be having trouble of his own, will have to step up and relieve that pressure so that the game opens back up for Leonard.

We ain't beating the Warriors with a 2 man attack and an inconsistent committee.

You seem to have trouble understanding that I dont have a problem with someone else is stepping up. I have a problem when that someone else runs 95% of his sets not involving the best player.

The spurs have multiple variations of horns that feature the wings for example.

[midnightpulp]

You seem to have trouble understanding that I dont have a problem with someone else is stepping up. I have a problem when that someone else runs 95% of his sets not involving the best player.

The spurs have multiple variations of horns that feature the wings for example.

Yes, but the primary action will always start with Tony going through a big, and with the wings getting the ball in their spots off secondary action. Just look at the numerous Horns sets. Most all of them begin that way. If the PG and a Wing initiate the primary action in a Horns set, it's usually for a big to finish the play.

Example:

http://www.coachpintar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Horns-Flex-Normal-Post-Look.png

[Budkin]

lmao no

why do you idiots keep ignoring that the only teams that challenge us are mostly bad teams?? we are the anti-Spurs

:lol "we"

[spursistan]

so you are'nt against a "gib Kiwi the ball :cry" for a starting plan? I mean you would give it a try, maybe we can get away with Kawhi dropping 35-40 on their heads in one of the first 2 key games at Oracle before the Warriors adjust and swarm him more..In three games so far we haven't gone to town with Kawhi despite the fact he was set on a hot shooting pace in a couple of them (4-6/8-12)...the Spurs will have to comeback 1-1 to San Antonio to have chance and I'm not expecting the committee to bring that win home..

[apalisoc_9]

Game 1 is really key here. Pop might be holding out kawhi in this matchup till game 1 where they can surprise them.

[PopTheGOAT]

Aldridge, Kawhi, Timmy, and whoever else handles it in the post needs to work in practice on people swiping at the ball. Need to run drills where there's constant hands going at them. Too many turnovers against GS in the post, especially Aldridge

[pgardn]

You seem to have trouble understanding that I dont have a problem with someone else is stepping up. I have a problem when that someone else runs 95% of his sets not involving the best player.

The spurs have multiple variations of horns that feature the wings for example.

The best player has not learned how to solve double teams and to dribble consistently to get easy layups. I have faith that he will. Until then, quit thinking KL is Jordan. He is NOT. But he is clearly our best player. So we need to get him the ball off screens and on cuts. Then the 3 and the jumper open up. He MUST rely on teammates unless he can steak/ dunk the entire game. Your hated Tony Parker is the key to this. If Tonyncan get past his man and draw help, KL will benefit. Just because Parker screwedvBarrys wife and has a round head... Get off it. Todays KL will suffer without a handler.

[pgardn]

Aldridge, Kawhi, Timmy, and whoever else handles it in the post needs to work in practice on people swiping at the ball. Need to run drills where there's constant hands going at them. Too many turnovers against GS in the post, especially Aldridge

Aldridge got physically whipped by Green when posting. That, must cease.

[Kawhitstorm]

Game 1 is really key here. Pop might be holding out kawhi in this matchup till game 1 where they can surprise them.

Worriers are most vulnerable in Gm 2s since they tend to become overconfident & play sloppy/lackadaisical (Grizz/Cavs BOTH won Gm 2 & the Rockets had a chance but HarDone didn't even get a shot off before the buzzer:lol). If you are a road team, you rather win Gm 2 & go home w/ a chance to go up 2-1.

The Spurs basically used that strategy to go up 2-1 on the Cripples but couldn't finish the job at home in Gm 6.:bang

IMO, there are 3 possibilities to how the series is going to end up: (Defensively)
-2005 Suns/Spurs: Pop dares Draymond to average 35 (ala Amare) by trapping Curry & leaving him open
-2007 Suns/Spurs: D-West hip-checks Wardell & Draymond gets suspended:lol
-2010 Suns/Spurs: Curry runs circles around LMA:depressed

[james evans]

no need to worry about that if the refs are gonna let Draymond Green continue to tackle people and curry use his hands on defense. They don't have to be able to defend anyone

[HarlemHeat37]

Actually, Warriors defend 2s and 3s better than they defend any other positions IIRC..

Their defense fell off a bit following Iguodala's injury, but they will probably step it up for the playoffs..

Even when their defense was peaking earlier in the year, they would still get destroyed by opposing 4s and 5s..

[apalisoc_9]

Worriers are most vulnerable in Gm 2s since they tend to become overconfident & play sloppy/lackadaisical (Grizz/Cavs BOTH won Gm 2 & the Rockets had a chance but HarDone didn't even get a shot off before the buzzer:lol). If you are a road team, you rather win Gm 2 & go home w/ a chance to go up 2-1.

The Spurs basically used that strategy to go up 2-1 on the Cripples but couldn't finish the job at home in Gm 6.:bang

IMO, there are 3 possibilities to how the series is going to end up: (Defensively)
-2005 Suns/Spurs: Pop dares Draymond to average 35 (ala Amare) by trapping Curry & leaving him open
-2007 Suns/Spurs: D-West hip-checks Wardell & Draymond gets suspended:lol
-2010 Suns/Spurs: Curry runs circles around LMA:depressed

I'd rather they punch the warriors in game 1 and give themself a shot at a 2-0 lead. Going all out and winning game 1 gives you an opportunity to close ther series in game 2.

[Kawhitstorm]

I'd rather they punch the warriors in game 1 and give themself a shot at a 2-0 lead. Going all out and winning game 1 gives you an opportunity to close ther series in game 2.

That strategy didn't quite work against the 2012 ThundeRefs:wakeup

[apalisoc_9]

That strategy didn't quite work against the 2012 ThundeRefs:wakeup

The spurs had homecourt bro.

[Splits]

:lol "we"

He's right, they've got 16 wins.

[Kawhitstorm]

Actually, Warriors defend 2s and 3s better than they defend any other positions IIRC..

Their defense fell off a bit following Iguodala's injury, but they will probably step it up for the playoffs..

Even when their defense was peaking earlier in the year, they would still get destroyed by opposing 4s and 5s..

Iggy/Barnes could cancel out the opposing wings & Curry/Klay/Livingston/Barbosa will outplay the opposing backcourt. They don't get much production from their 4s/5s so a team loaded at the frontline is bound to give them the most trouble especially if Klay chokes & Barnes reverts to his shitty self.

[Kawhitstorm]

The spurs had homecourt bro.

Didn't matter to the refs :sleep

[HarlemHeat37]

Iggy/Barnes could cancel out the opposing wings & Curry/Klay/Livingston/Barbosa will outplay the opposing backcourt. They don't get much production from their 4s/5s so a team loaded at the frontline is bound to give them the most trouble especially if Klay chokes & Barnes reverts to his shitty self.

Pretty much..Kawhi will need to do his thing, but Aldridge/Diaw are going to be the most important offensive players, along with Green making 3s(which would allow him to stay on the floor, since he's essential in this matchup)..

[TrainOfThought5]

Athletic wing you say?? Like a Rasual Butler?

[SAGirl]

Game 1 is really key here. Pop might be holding out kawhi in this matchup till game 1 where they can surprise them.
Honestly a very good possibility since we have seen Kawhi get his easily or set others up, but we don't stick with that, bc Pop wants to throw smoke out there and get guys who have struggled with their stuff to improve.

[midnightpulp]

Actually, Warriors defend 2s and 3s better than they defend any other positions IIRC..

Their defense fell off a bit following Iguodala's injury, but they will probably step it up for the playoffs..

Even when their defense was peaking earlier in the year, they would still get destroyed by opposing 4s and 5s..

Any site that breaks down how a team defends particular positions?

Per NBA.com, the Warriors have the 6th worst paint defense in the league, but we don't know if the majority of those points in the paint are scored off penetration or through the low post. Also, their less than 5 feet defense is significantly worse than their 5-9 foot defense, but again, we don't know which players are finishing and how they're finishing.

[HarlemHeat37]

Any site that breaks down how a team defends particular positions?

Per NBA.com, the Warriors have the 6th worst paint defense in the league, but we don't know if the majority of those points in the paint are scored off penetration or through the low post. Also, their less than 5 feet defense is significantly worse than their 5-9 foot defense, but again, we don't know which players are finishing and how they're finishing.

For more specific shit, you'd have to look into the SportsVu data, but for raw numbers:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/16/12/pts/1-1

PG: 23 PPG/48(26th) 51.3 TS% (20.3 fga/48)
SG: 19.8 PPG/48(10th) 50.7 TS% (17.5 fga/48)
SF: 18.6 PPG/48(8th) 51.4 TS% (16.2 fga/48)
PF: 20.6 PPG/48(20th) 54 TS% (16.9 fga/48)
C: 21.2 PPG/48(26th) 53 TS% (17.4 fga/48)

They allow a lot of points vs. PGs, but on high volume and nothing special in efficiency, which is probably strategical..

Opposing bigs have destroyed them, all season, though, both in volume scoring and efficiency..

[DeRozan m8]

lmao no

why do you idiots keep ignoring that the only teams that challenge us are mostly bad teams?? we are the anti-Spurs

You haven't won in SA for how long?

Yes...The Anti Spurs LMAO

[EVAY]

The best player has not learned how to solve double teams and to dribble consistently to get easy layups. I have faith that he will. Until then, quit thinking KL is Jordan. He is NOT. But he is clearly our best player. So we need to get him the ball off screens and on cuts. Then the 3 and the jumper open up. He MUST rely on teammates unless he can steak/ dunk the entire game. Your hated Tony Parker is the key to this. If Tonyncan get past his man and draw help, KL will benefit. Just because Parker screwedvBarrys wife and has a round head... Get off it. Todays KL will suffer without a handler.

yes.

[YGWHI]

The best player has not learned how to solve double teams and to dribble consistently to get easy layups.
You shouldn't talk about agendas...If you don't think that Kawhi has improved in that area of his game this season, you're other agenda boy.

Also, you should look at his stats on drives...But yeah...he has learned nothing.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257905



If Tonyn can get past his man and draw help
Parker isn't even close to the driver, penetrator, offensive player, that he used to be, if you can't see it, like I've said before, you're part of what you criticize.

If that's the Spurs strategy against Warriors the Spurs are fucked.

[DAF86]

Don't know what the fuck midnightpulp is seeing, tbh. Everyfucking else realizes bigs and post ups are the way to compete with this team.

[YGWHI]

Everyfucking else realizes bigs and post ups are the way to compete with this team.

Since OP is saying in this thread that he places his ultimate hope in Manu now, it's pretty obvious that he wants to post-up Manu against Iguodala or Dray.

[YGWHI]

Blue-font is overrated.

[Rob123]

You seem to have trouble understanding that I dont have a problem with someone else is stepping up. I have a problem when that someone else runs 95% of his sets not involving the best player.

The spurs have multiple variations of horns that feature the wings for example.

This is a bad basketball take. Tony is running the sets as dictated by pop to maximize the teams current ability. Kawhi should by all accounts be an absolute monster, but he hasn't been able to break out of being just a really good player yet. Once he can dictate the terms of the game like a prime Timmy he'll get all the sets he wants.

[LkrFan]

MVP/Klay >>> all Spur perimeter players by a wide margin tbh. Non-issue, for the Dubs.

[YGWHI]

This is a bad basketball take. Tony is running the sets as dictated by pop to maximize the teams current ability. Kawhi should by all accounts be an absolute monster, but he hasn't been able to break out of being just a really good player yet. Once he can dictate the terms of the game like a prime Timmy he'll get all the sets he wants.

So you didn't see Kawhi taking over games this season...

I would say that a versatile player like him, who can shoot from mid-range and 3, post-up, go ISO, Spurs leading scorer, deserves more than 12 shots against the Warriors.

Unless Lebron, nobody will reach Tim's prime level, but that's not a reason to freeze Kawhi on offense when he has proven to be one of the most efficient scorers in the league. 51-45-88.

[Rob123]

So you didn't see Kawhi taking over games this season...

I would say that a versatile player like him, who can shoot from mid-range and 3, post-up, go ISO, Spurs leading scorer, deserves more than 12 shots against the Warriors.

Unless Lebron, nobody will reach Tim's prime level, but that's not a reason to freeze Kawhi on offense when he has proven to be one of the most efficient scorers in the league. 51-45-88.

Lol bruh I've watched at least 90% of every spurs season for the past 10 years. I've missed maybe 8 games this season. Kawhi has not taken over many games. I can count the games I directly attribute to his determination to win on 1 hand and they were all questionable teams

Dudes 4/15 tonight btw

[Robz4000]

Kawhi getting shut the fuck down.

[Rob123]

Kawhi by all means should be the greatest player to ever lace up, and he might still get there but as of right now he's just not

[cd98]

I like Kawhi, but he's still raw offensively. A 25 year old Bryant or Jordan would have 30 points in this game.

[YGWHI]

Lol bruh I've watched at least 90% of every spurs season for the past 10 years. I've missed maybe 8 games this season. Kawhi has not taken over many games.
He had, but it seems like if he isn't dropping 37 points against GSW...any other of his good games in the season matters, right?



Dudes 4/15 tonight btw
And he was 8-12 last game and 51 FG% in the season.

Do you really think he will shoot 32 FG% like tonight in a whole series?

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Too bad both our wings are Wing Stopped. Can't dribble worth a crap.

[midnightpulp]

Don't know what the fuck midnightpulp is seeing, tbh. Everyfucking else realizes bigs and post ups are the way to compete with this team.

You can examine the games against teams that featured middle-to-top-tier wing players, and they've given up some big games to them.

The reason I'm not buying a low-post offense as the way to go, is because it'll get swarmed and doubled to death as the series progresses because the Spurs have ZERO shooters right now to protect their bigs from swarms.

So I figured they might be weak right now vs. wings. Wiggins, Kawhi before this game, Lance Stephenson, Matt fuckin' Barnes, old Vince Carter have all had big/good games against them. The Celtics also beat them by penetration. And unlike what dipshit YGWHI suggested, no, I don't want Manu posting up. I want the whirling dervish, Eurostepping into the lane, and finishing Manu.

We're not beating them with post up bigs unless the 3 point shooting comes around.

[Tully365]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25216834/andre-iguodala-wins-2015-nba-finals-mvp

[Rob123]

He had, but it seems like if he isn't dropping 37 points against GSW...any other of his good games in the season matters, right?



And he was 8-12 last game and 51 FG% in the season.

Do you really think he will shoot 32 FG% like tonight in a whole series?

Look we are on the same side here. I want kawhi to be the best player in the league and I think he could be. I think you have the rose colored glasses on right now if you think he's anything more than slightly above average.

[Cessation]

I like Kawhi, but he's still raw offensively. A 25 year old Bryant or Jordan would have 30 points in this game.


Very true.

[YGWHI]

Look we are on the same side here. I want kawhi to be the best player in the league and I think he could be. I think you have the rose colored glasses on right now if you think he's anything more than slightly above average.
:lol

Not a big fans of stats, but when those numbers tell me that a guy is #6 in PER, #1 in RPM, #1 in Def Rtg for 2nd consecutive season, shooting 51-45-88, in the top 5 from every spot on the court among perimeter players (ISOs, drives, post-ups- 3's)...I say that guy is a top 5 player and so much higher than average.

[hitmanyr2k]

I like Kawhi, but he's still raw offensively. A 25 year old Bryant or Jordan would have 30 points in this game.

Kawhi's problem is he's not nearly as explosive as those guys off the dribble and I'm not sure that can be fixed.

[Kawhitstorm]

I like Kawhi, but he's still raw offensively. A 25 year old Bryant or Jordan would have 30 points in this game.

Kawhi is a jump-shooter/postup scorer not a slasher like 25 year old Jordan. Kawhi's game is similar to Carmelo who used to get handled by Bruce Bowen when he was the same age.

[midnightpulp]

Kawhi is a jump-shooter/postup scorer not a slasher like 25 year old Jordan. Kawhi's game is similar to Carmelo who used to get handled by Bruce Bowen when he was the same age.

Shit, even career net negative defender Kirby handed Melo his ass defensively in '09. I remember Melo destroying Ariza, and then Phil switched, and Kirby shut shit down.

Midrange post players are too easy to defend these days. You need a dribble drive game in addition, or you'll just get smothered.