Kawhi. Is he the future of the Spurs or a role player?

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Pop announced him the future of the Spurs in 2014. But since he's taken the helm Spurs have exited first round in 2015 and has struggled in big games to show he's an MVP.
Can the Spurs rely on him to carry us into the future or does PATFO need to add another player besides LMA to carry us into a championship?

[dabom]

Pop said that after his rookie season...

[dabom]

Why are you always wrong OP? :lmao

[kaji157]

Yes, he just needs a 25 year old Ginobili by his side and all will be good and well come crunch time =).

[DeRozan m8]

He's 24, he's easily the future, esp when hes playing with a proper back court tbh

[YGWHI]

Yes, he just needs a 25 year old Ginobili by his side and all will be good and well come crunch time =).

Kawhi not only has been Spurs go-to guy in the clutch this season, but he's been so damn efficient.

Look at Orlando, Utah, Pelicans games on the road, the first Mavs game, and Thunder, Raptors in SA. Also, his second half against Cavs was really good.

[HarlemHeat37]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o3QgbFwwlWM/VdFvZg7zgvI/AAAAAAAArok/vYMnNp1kyvQ/w325-h347/Sexy%2BFunny%2BGirls.gif

[LongtimeSpursFan]

From what I gather Kawhi can be a solid contributor but much like Dwight Howard he best excels when he has another player that can take the pressure off of being the main guy.

[KimmyGib]

Kawhi is the present and future of this team. The great season they're having speaks for itself. No reason not to remain optimistic for both the post-season and years to come.

[rasuo214]

Spurs have the most wins in franchise history and you're asking if he's the future? No one can win by themselves, unfortunately the Big 3's age is showing and Danny Green's game has fallen off a cliff along with a few others. This team will go as far as LMA and Kawhi can carry it. Whether or not that will be enough, we'll see.

[MultiTroll]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o3QgbFwwlWM/VdFvZg7zgvI/AAAAAAAArok/vYMnNp1kyvQ/w325-h347/Sexy%2BFunny%2BGirls.gif
Nicely done.

[MultiTroll]

Kawhi does better in ball movement offense.
This 4 Dumb shit where they give Kawhi the ball then Pop orders the other 4 to clear away and stand with their fingers up their arses. Idiotic.
Kwa looks very uncomfortable in that force it chit offense. It also merely serves to set up the other team in transition once they rebound.

[DenialTwist]

For all the hate Kawhi gets from this forum. Sheesh. He is playing alongside the Spurs big three, who are all ready to retire and a few players who have gone M.I.A time and time again and yet you question of he is the future? They won 65 games with the player you are talking about with one of the worst scoring backcourts right now. How is that even possible when LMA was still finding his way in the beginning of the season and Danny shooting 30% and he still plays great D. No appreciation, wow.

[siraulo23]

Kawhi is a great player but he'll never be a great playmaker or a great ball handler

He's an excellent defensive player whos an efficient post player and an effective mid range shooter

[Gummi Clutch]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o3QgbFwwlWM/VdFvZg7zgvI/AAAAAAAArok/vYMnNp1kyvQ/w325-h347/Sexy%2BFunny%2BGirls.gif
don't know wtf is wrong with me, all I can think about is how their periods are probably stinkin up that snatch

[HarlemHeat37]

don't know wtf is wrong with me, all I can think about is how their periods are probably stinkin up that snatch

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3017563/dmx-reaction-to-lil-b-o.gif

[Clipper Nation]

Is OP a faggot or a pillowbiter?

[cd98]

Did he struggle in big games in the 2014 run? I believe he won an MVP in the finals that year.

[hater]

Kawhi is great and a gem to have. But he is no team leader a la Duncan or Parker. He cannot carry a team on his back and he cannot verbally lead his team.

He's a very great role player to have a la Pau Gasol imo

[Kool Bob Love]

Role player who stole Duncan's 4th Finals MVP. Shameful.

[RD2191]

Aren't you like 90, OP? Die already.

[loveforthegame]

I wonder if we can find a team dumb enough to take him off our hands? We'd be much better off going back to the likes of true role players line Finley, Jefferson, etc...

24 years old, no work ethic, bad attitude, only cares about the offensive side of the court. What a bust of a pick. If only we could have Hill back.

[houston spurs fan]

He is the future and the now...He hasn't even hit his ceiling yet. OP obviously trolling but what is the point?

[Dingle Barry]

don't know wtf is wrong with me, all I can think about is how their periods are probably stinkin up that snatch

This boy ain't right.

[skulls138]

I wonder if we can find a team dumb enough to take him off our hands? We'd be much better off going back to the likes of true role players line Finley, Jefferson, etc...

24 years old, no work ethic, bad attitude, only cares about the offensive side of the court. What a bust of a pick. If only we could have Hill back.Yeah, and hes got these teeny tiny hands. Theyre like baby hands. :lol

[loveforthegame]

What's comical is the crew that question Leonard's ability, mentality, drive, etc... as if he was a Duncan level pick but hasn't lived up to the hype promised.

Many questioned the Spurs for trading a talent in Hill for a guy whose best case scenario was a 3 and D guy. And plenty questioned whether he could even be that much.

Instead we got a guy who not only revitalized this organization, helped extend the careers of the big 3, helped lead it to another championship, win finals MVP, a DPOY award, improved his percentages to near 50-50-90 territory, placed his name in MVP talks, and so on.

It's his first year carrying the offensive load while helping lead this team to a franchise best record. Is he perfect? Is he above criticism? No. Will he still make mistakes while he figures everything out? Most likely. But what he's accomplished in his 5 years is remarkable all things considered.

And the crew accuses of Leonard fans of deflecting.

[Rob123]

He has all the tools to be one of the all time greats. Dude just cant put it together for some reason. Like many have said he's still young, but young guys like Damian lillard are doing way more on the offensive end with less support than kawhi. The problem is his inability to handle the rock well enough to create lanes for himself and his overall lack of fire. Yeah we get it, he's the quite no bs guy which is cool, but at some point you just gotta go KG or Jordan or Kobe and nut up.

[DarrinS]

Kawhi is the LEAST of our worries, tbh

[Chinook]

I'll never again put a limit on what Kawhi can do. But right now, he's not a foundation. Cornerstone? Sure. With LMA next to him, hopefully they can make a foundation. But I'd like to see one more player near their tier added to really solidify the team for the next two year. Ideally, it would be a guard who can take the ball out of Kawhi's hands and let Leonard play in his spots while also keeping LMA efficient. It's just not clear that that type of player exists. As far as on-roster players, Anderson is the closest if he develops correctly. But being shift and quick with a good shot is pretty important to the job, and obviously Kyle has none of that.

[spurraider21]

I'll never again put a limit on what Kawhi can do. But right now, he's not a foundation. Cornerstone? Sure. With LMA next to him, hopefully they can make a foundation. But I'd like to see one more player near their tier added to really solidify the team for the next two year. Ideally, it would be a guard who can take the ball out of Kawhi's hands and let Leonard play in his spots while also keeping LMA efficient. It's just not clear that that type of player exists. As far as on-roster players, Anderson is the closest if he develops correctly. But being shift and quick with a good shot is pretty important to the job, and obviously Kyle has none of that.
Solidify them? Right now this is a top 2 team in the league with a pretty significant gap between 2 and 3. There isn't much room to solidify them further... at least regarding the star talent. The role players have disappointed more than anything... if Green was shooting like he had been for the previous 4 years, the team would be significantly better.

[Chinook]

Solidify them? Right now this is a top 2 team in the league with a pretty significant gap between 2 and 3. There isn't much room to solidify them further... at least regarding the star talent. The role players have disappointed more than anything... if Green was shooting like he had been for the previous 4 years, the team would be significantly better.

Last time I checked, Duncan and Manu are retiring soon. So yeah, they'll need solidifying in the Kawhi era.

[peacemaker885]

Solidify them? Right now this is a top 2 team in the league with a pretty significant gap between 2 and 3. There isn't much room to solidify them further... at least regarding the star talent. The role players have disappointed more than anything... if Green was shooting like he had been for the previous 4 years, the team would be significantly better.

[spurraider21]

Last time I checked, Duncan and Manu are retiring soon. So yeah, they'll need solidifying in the Kawhi era.
neither of those guys are in the aldridge/leonard category right now... those are role players

[loveforthegame]

Last time I checked, Duncan and Manu are retiring soon. So yeah, they'll need solidifying in the Kawhi era.

Agreed. Not only are those two close to retiring, Parker is a step closer in that direction too. Green may bounce back shooting wise but he's not going to improve elsewhere. Mills isn't the same after surgery. No backup pg to speak of. West, Miller, and Martin are short term.

Spurs have some work to do this off season.

[Chinook]

neither of those guys are in the aldridge/leonard category right now... those are role players

Yeah, but both provide leadership and skill that the other guys on the roster aren't likely to match. You don't just lose your best play-maker and your best per-minute defender and keeping on chugging along.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, but both provide leadership and skill that the other guys on the roster aren't likely to match. You don't just lose your best play-maker and your best per-minute defender and keeping on chugging along.
i didnt suggest we don't need to replace players we lose. but as far as the "foundation" of the team, i think having 1a and 1b is fine

[TheGreatYacht]

Role player who stole Duncan's 4th Finals MVP. Shameful.

[Chinook]

i didnt suggest we don't need to replace players we lose. but as far as the "foundation" of the team, i think having 1a and 1b is fine

I don't think so, and I don't think this year is proving that.

[spurraider21]

I don't think so, and I don't think this year is proving that.
the warriors are a historically great team. just because we aren't better than them doesn't mean we don't have a strong foundation going forward.

[dabom]

the warriors are a historically great team. just because we aren't better than them doesn't mean we don't have a strong foundation going forward.

[dabom]

As far as I'm fucking aware, Kawhi has shown up for every fucking game except 1. I don't even count last night a bad game. Ya some fucking pansy mother fuckers. Spurraider is right. The role players have disappeared in some big games and people blame Kawhi. 65 wins too. Kawhi is a Super star and MVP candidate.

[Kawhitstorm]

I'll never again put a limit on what Kawhi can do. But right now, he's not a foundation. Cornerstone? Sure. With LMA next to him, hopefully they can make a foundation. But I'd like to see one more player near their tier added to really solidify the team for the next two year. Ideally, it would be a guard who can take the ball out of Kawhi's hands and let Leonard play in his spots while also keeping LMA efficient. It's just not clear that that type of player exists. As far as on-roster players, Anderson is the closest if he develops correctly. But being shift and quick with a good shot is pretty important to the job, and obviously Kyle has none of that.

Fournier is the only guy available in FA that could be signed to play the PRIME Manu 6th man role. I don't see why the Magic would highly prioritize re-sign him when they have Dipo/Hezonja/Payton under contract. They offered him a 4yr/32 mill contract which he rejected but PATFO could offer him the same deal as Danny as he's seeking a 10+ mill contract: http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/12/10/orlando-magic-rumors-evan-fournier-sought-10-million-in-extension/

Diaw was supposedly his idol & Porker is his national team captain so that might come in handy.

When Tim/Manu retire this summer I'm hoping that the PATFO split the 20 mill cap space on Noah/Fournier (French Invasion:lol), draft GPII & use the MLE on someone like Teletovic.

Noah/West/Hibbert?
LMA/Diaw/Teletovic
Kawhi/Kyle/Bertans
Danny/Fournier/Simmons
Porker/Patty/GP II

[Chinook]

the warriors are a historically great team. just because we aren't better than them doesn't mean we don't have a strong foundation going forward.

It's not about the Warriors. The Spurs' foundation is shaky because they are losing good players and HoF leaders. Kawhi and LMA are individually talented enough to be a good foundation, but they need someone to bring their skills together. That's going to be even more true as LMA ages. Since Parker isn't looking like he'll be the glue for the offense, they need someone else to do it.

[sasaint]

Yeah, but both provide leadership and skill that the other guys on the roster aren't likely to match. You don't just lose your best play-maker and your best per-minute defender and keeping on chugging along.

Leadership such as Tim and Manu have provided is every bit as rare - possibly even rarer - as what they contribute on the court. That is the principal reason that I hope we bring back DWest. Flawed as he is, he is the only guy who can provide anything remotely resembling that kind of leadership on our current roster.

[spurraider21]

It's not about the Warriors. The Spurs' foundation is shaky because they are losing good players and HoF leaders. Kawhi and LMA are individually talented enough to be a good foundation, but they need someone to bring their skills together. That's going to be even more true as LMA ages. Since Parker isn't looking like he'll be the glue for the offense, they need someone else to do it.
well yeah, its a 15 man roster. OKC's issue isn't that durant/westbrook aren't good enough as 1a and 1b, and i dont think the spurs issues moving forward will be with the 1a and 1b... doesn't mean i'm calling the squad complete or perfect

[Chinook]

well yeah, its a 15 man roster. OKC's issue isn't that durant/westbrook aren't good enough as 1a and 1b, and i dont think the spurs issues moving forward will be with the 1a and 1b... doesn't mean i'm calling the squad complete or perfect

You're the one defining "foundation" as 1a and 1b. I said to be solidified, they need a third player that can help them play to their potential. I never said that person needed to be 1a or even any 1. They don't need a Kyle Lowery to be solidified. Someone like Rubio would do very well if Chip could help his shot.

[pgardn]

We get two choices.

Is Kahwi green or pink...?

[SAGirl]

Kawhi is already a star, our best player and just 24. I have a lot of belief on what he can do. He's just so self restrained that his fire and how bad he wants to win doesn't show.

I do think we need someone else, a guard. It's just a need in the NBA to have a legit quality athletic guard. Bc of Manu's impending retirement and Tony's decline + Danny not being a creator off the dribble, that puts a lot of pressure on Tony too, which he can't carry now and will be worse next season (without Manu to sometimes alleviate it). Pop and the league have taken a liking to the 2 PG lineups and Tony/Patty are too undersized together + deficient defensively to be a good pairing as well. It's quite impossible to dominate in the NBA when both guys in your backcourt are easily nullified. We need 1 quality guard. How said guard may be acquired is a topic for the off- season.

Kyle is a mystery in long term plans. I think he has a future with the Spurs for at least the length of his rookie contract, maybe more depending on his development but he has a lot to work on with his own shot. He wasn't ready to do more than he's done this season (which might have been a kind of rook season in terms of being integrated into the team) but he will have to do more next season. Simple things like entering the ball into the post give problems to our guards. Kyle OTOH is a natural as a point. We may become a very unorthodox team with a point forward that really runs the point, meaning calling sets, getting guys in spots, etc. I think Pop can squeeze more out of him, but he's letting him develop first b4 he starts putting that burden on his shoulders. But we will have to have somebody. At times it is PG by committee out there and it's not pretty.

[SAGirl]

neither of those guys are in the aldridge/leonard category right now... those are role players
They have very important roles in the team. Without them, the team has a lower ceiling. I think I get Chinooks point. Not a slight to Kawhi at all. He means to really contend for a title once our vets retire and Tony continues to age, he'd like to have a third guy.

[SAGirl]

Fournier is the only guy available in FA that could be signed to play the PRIME Manu 6th man role. I don't see why the Magic would highly prioritize re-sign him when they have Dipo/Hezonja/Payton under contract. They offered him a 4yr/32 mill contract which he rejected but PATFO could offer him the same deal as Danny as he's seeking a 10+ mill contract: http://orlandomagicdaily.com/2015/12/10/orlando-magic-rumors-evan-fournier-sought-10-million-in-extension/

Diaw was supposedly his idol & Porker is his national team captain so that might come in handy.

When Tim/Manu retire this summer I'm hoping that the PATFO split the 20 mill cap space on Noah/Fournier (French Invasion:lol), draft GPII & use the MLE on someone like Teletovic.

Noah/West/Hibbert?
LMA/Diaw/Teletovic
Kawhi/Kyle/Bertans
Danny/Fournier/Simmons
Porker/Patty/GP II
I like this team!

[DPG21920]

If you are looking at the individual vs the sum of the parts, sure, I can see why people think losing Manu/Tim isn't a big deal. But both because of money, but mostly because of culture and skill, it's so hard to replace those guys and LMA/Kawhi could suffer with them gone if you don't get a noticeable replacement.

Plus, Kawhi is really re-defining how people view superstars and even we as Spurs fans don't know quite how to peg it. He's a star, but not in the sense of someone to relentlessly take over games offensively like Durant/Harden/Lebron. The fact he's not a creator really is what seperates him from those guys. But he brings so much on both sides that he's definitely a winner to build around.

[DPG21920]

Not to derail the thread, but Noah? Noah-thanks!

[TheGreatYacht]

Pau Gasol 50 page thread incoming? He's pretty much done in Chicago

[Silver&Black]

Future of the Spurs, tbh.

[SpursBig3s]

As far as I'm fucking aware, Kawhi has shown up for every fucking game except 1. I don't even count last night a bad game. Ya some fucking pansy mother fuckers. Spurraider is right. The role players have disappeared in some big games and people blame Kawhi. 65 wins too. Kawhi is a Super star and MVP candidate.


Dude, he had a bad game, it's ok to admit it. But he wasn't the reason why we lost

[spurraider21]

future

[SuperCam]

He is probably the top role player in the league, in the top 3 at the very minimum. You need those kind of guys to win a title, but they can't lead you to one. Don't have the testicular fortitude.

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs desperately need a PG more than anything, going forward..in today's NBA, you can survive with role players at the wing positions(especially SG, which is the worst position in the league, right now), but there aren't many relevant teams(10+ games above .500 or better) that don't have an above average or better PG..

GS: Curry
OKC: Westbrook
LAC: Paul
Portland: Lillard
Cleveland: Irving
Toronto: Lowry
Atlanta: Teague
Charlotte: Walker
Miami: Dragic(horrible in the 1st half of the season, but has been one of the best PGs in the league in the 2nd half since Bosh went out)

They desperately need a playmaker on the floor, it's something they're severely lacking..

[I. Hustle]

Spurs desperately need a PG more than anything, going forward..in today's NBA, you can survive with role players at the wing positions(especially SG, which is the worst position in the league, right now), but there aren't many relevant teams(10+ games above .500 or better) that don't have an above average or better PG..

GS: Curry
OKC: Westbrook
LAC: Paul
Portland: Lillard
Cleveland: Irving
Toronto: Lowry
Atlanta: Teague
Charlotte: Walker
Miami: Dragic(horrible in the 1st half of the season, but has been one of the best PGs in the league in the 2nd half since Bosh went out)

They desperately need a playmaker on the floor, it's something they're severely lacking..

I agree! Just imagine where we could be with an above average PG. I mean, we wouldn't beat the Dubs right now but I bet we could be a strong contender for 2nd in the west.

[TheGreatYacht]

He is probably the top role player in the league, in the top 3 at the very minimum. You need those kind of guys to win a title, but they can't lead you to one. Don't have the testicular fortitude.
Troof nuke

[Kawhitstorm]

Pau Gasol 50 page thread incoming? He's pretty much done in Chicago

An LMA/Pau frontline is unplayable against the Worriers & dude is too proud to accept a bench role. Pau had an atrocious 0-8, 1 pt performance against the Worriers this season at the United Center: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201601200CHI.html


Not to derail the thread, but Noah? Noah-thanks!

Noah would essentially play a Bogut role as a defensive minded passing bigman & is actually very mobile like Splitter. He won't have to play over 30 minutes b/c Diaw/West would provide depth thus it should preserve his body. He was still an elite rebounder/passer/defender this season even when he looking like a shell of himself physically. You aren't getting any 7 footer better than Noah for 10 mill & his market value is as low as it has ever been.

pVu2oXY8dbE

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree! Just imagine where we could be with an above average PG. I mean, we wouldn't beat the Dubs right now but I bet we could be a strong contender for 2nd in the west.

Well, we're talking about going forward, and being the 2nd best team and just a darkhorse in a very weak NBA season isn't that special, despite the record:lol

FYI, Parker was playing like a really good PG in the 1st half of the season, which was when the Spurs were playing their most impressive basketball..not a coincidence that they haven't been nearly as good in the 2nd half of the season as he has fallen off a cliff..

[I. Hustle]

Well, we're talking about going forward, and being the 2nd best team and just a darkhorse in a very weak NBA season isn't that special, despite the record:lol

FYI, Parker was playing like a really good PG in the 1st half of the season, which was when the Spurs were playing their most impressive basketball..not a coincidence that they haven't been nearly as good in the 2nd half of the season as he has fallen off a cliff..

Doesn't matter who we have or could have the warriors are going to win it all again. They are the new darling.

[tholdren]

It's not about the Warriors. The Spurs' foundation is shaky because they are losing good players and HoF leaders. Kawhi and LMA are individually talented enough to be a good foundation, but they need someone to bring their skills together. That's going to be even more true as LMA ages. Since Parker isn't looking like he'll be the glue for the offense, they need someone else to do it.

This - KL still can't take over a big game, or control the pace. Until he is able to do this he will be in between a role player and "the future." Lots better than I thought he would be - but lots worse than all the KL fans say he is.

[Tully365]

Every coach in the NBA would take Kawhi if given the chance...

[tholdren]

Every coach in the NBA would take Kawhi if given the chance...
ok?

[TheGreatYacht]

Coach K would take Kobe and Mason Plumlee over Kiwi, tbh.

[Keepin' it real]

Is he the future or a role player?

He's the future of the Spurs, role player or not.

[TheGreatYacht]

He's the future of the Spurs, role player or not.
First year as the first option led to a first round exit.


Thankfully he made up for it by begging LMA to come along and be his Shaq

[YGWHI]

Trolls judging young talent :lol

They would have called 25-years-old-LeBron-17.8 ppg "role player" "choker" "never show up for big games "will never win a ring" after 2011 Finals.

Kawhi has improved, added something new to his game, every season, and he can still get a lot better...24 years old Kawhi isn't a finished product.

[YGWHI]

First year as the first option led to a first round exit.
Second year as Spurs leading scorer led his team to 2nd best NBA record.

And...#6 in PER, #2 in RPM, #1 in Def Rtg/BDPM/every defensive stat among perimeter players, +50 FG%, 45 3FG%, 88 FT%, in top 2-4 MVP discussion almost whole season, not bad at all.

I would say, present and future.



Thankfully he made up for it by begging LMA to come along and be his Shaq
Nah. Kawhi will never call LMA out in public...and LMA won't rapping "Kawhi, tell me how my ass tastes".

[Mnky]

I expect him to get better during the playoffs. He will be more tuned in. He also can lean on LMA now so he won't feel as much pressure to score when he's struggling. It's good he doesn't give up when he is struggling.. need to see him convert now. He seems very indecisive on his drives and ISOs. That's normal, as he has very little experience with it. All the big time scorers were doing that since their college days. He's just starting to really establish that mentality at 24. He will develop with experience and reps.
We got a veteran team that was playing out of system. That won't be going down in the playoffs. Pop seems way too committed this year to the post season. Those moments were good for Kawhi development. Losing is not something he will get accustomed to on the spurs. You learn a lot from losing. Pop knows this.