PC and Muslim Agenda

[xrayzebra]

Food for thought. Political Correctness will be death of our country, what little is left.

How Islamists Are Slowly Desensitizing Europe And America
The freakouts when people raise valid questions over Islamist actions are meant to frighten people into silence so Islamists can continue their attacks.
M.G. Oprea


Charlie Hebdo, the French satirical magazine whose offices Islamists attacked in 2015, published an editorial recently titled “How Did We Get Here?” that has raised some eyebrows. In it, they ask how Europe has become where European-born Muslims have attacked the hearts of Paris and Brussels. Their answer has proved distasteful to many on the Left.

The editorial has been harshly criticized and the magazine accused of racism and xenophobia. The Washington Post says Charlie Hebdo blames extremism on individual Muslims—the veiled woman on the street, the man selling kebabs. There’s some truth to this accusation, and to the extent that there is, Charlie Hebdo is wrong. But this, and other critiques, miss the larger point of the article, which is to demonstrate the gradual and quotidian way in which criticizing Islam has been silenced.

It’s worth quoting Charlie Hebdo at length:

In reality, the attacks are merely the visible part of a very large iceberg indeed. They are the last phase of a process of cowing and silencing long in motion and on the widest possible scale. Our noses are endlessly rubbed in the rubble of Brussels airport and in the flickering candles amongst the bouquets of flowers on the pavements. All the while, no one notices what’s going on in Saint-German-en-Laye. Last week, Sciences-Po* welcomed Tariq Ramadan. He’s a teacher, so it’s not inappropriate. He came to speak of his specialist subject, Islam, which is also his religion…

No matter, Tariq Ramadan has done nothing wrong. He will never do anything wrong. He lectures about Islam, he writes about Islam, he broadcasts about Islam. He puts himself forward as a man of dialogue, someone open to a debate. A debate about secularism which, according to him, needs to adapt itself to the new place taken by religion in Western democracy. A secularism and a democracy which must also accept those traditions imported by minority communities. Nothing bad in that. Tariq Ramadan is never going to grab a Kalashnikov with which to shoot journalists at an editorial meeting. Nor will he ever cook up a bomb to be used in an airport concourse. Others will be doing all that kind of stuff. It will not be his role. His task, under cover of debate, is to dissuade people from criticising his religion in any way. The political science students who listened to him last week will, once they have become journalists or local officials, not even dare to write nor say anything negative about Islam. The little dent in their secularism made that day will bear fruit in a fear of criticising lest they appear Islamophobic. That is Tariq Ramadan’s task.

The Charlie Hebdo editorial correctly points out that in Europe the dominant liberal culture has pounded into us that we must adapt to Muslims who come to our country, and never ask them to adapt to any of our ways. Doing so would be colonialist and wrong. It’s a double standard, of course. As the welcoming countries, Europeans must suppress their own culture and ideals for those of the Islamic immigrant population. But when they go abroad to non-Western countries, either to live or to visit, it’s considered offensive not to adapt to their ways of life. (Do any of you remember "the ugly American propaganda)
Learning a Culture Should Work Both Ways

No one who found the Charlie Hebdo op-ed so offensive would ever suggest Morocco ought to welcome McDonalds or Wal-Mart with open arms. They would say the country is being ruined with Western culture. They want non-Western countries to remain exactly as they are—preserved and frozen in time-while the West must endlessly adapt to anyone who makes it their home.
Europe has failed to ask its Muslim immigrant population to assimilate.

The article highlights the important fact that Europe has failed to ask its Muslim immigrant population to assimilate. This fact was demonstrated recently when police discovered that the only surviving terrorist from the Paris attacks, Salah Abdeslam, was able to travel from Paris to Brussels and conceal himself there until a few days before the Brussels attacks. He was aided by a large community of French and Muslim Belgians whose loyalties clearly lie with their own community, not with Belgium, or Europe at large. What’s more, a 2013 study shows the shocking degree to which European Muslims hate the West. (wonder how they must LOVE us)

Asking immigrants to assimilate doesn’t mean white-washing their culture and religion, asking them not to wear the hijab, or demanding that they eat pork. But it does mean asking them to accept, to some degree, the culture of the country to which they have willingly moved. These are things like women’s rights, tolerance, free speech, or criticism of religion. It also means not having to apologize for having a culture of one’s own. This is the point that Michel Houellebecq made in his recent novel, “Submission.”
Slow-Boiling Our Brains

Europeans have been lulled into accepting that it’s wrong to criticize Islam or scrutinize it in any way. The Charlie Hebdo editorial points out that it’s a slow process, an insidious wearing away of what is and isn’t acceptable to say or think. The process must be slow, because few people would accept a proposal dictating what topics they’re not allowed to discuss. So, you gradually shame them into it.
The process must be slow, because few people would accept a proposal dictating what topics they’re not allowed to discuss.

This establishes a pre-conditioned mindset so the line of acceptability can be moved further and further until the problem of global jihad can no longer be effectively explored because we aren’t even allowed to ask fundamental questions. This is Charlie Hebdo’s point about Tariq Ramadan, whose grandfather founded the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood and whose father was an active member of the group. Through the guise of intellectualism and purported adherence to moderate Islam, he instructs his audience ever so gently that the problem has nothing to do with Islam, and that suggesting so is ugly and base.

We acquiesce, because, as Charlie Hebdo points out, we fear being seen as Islamaphobic or racist. We are made to feel guilty if the thought flashes through our head that we wish that the new sandwich shop run by a Muslim sold bacon, or that a woman wearing a hijab makes us a little uncomfortable. That fear that we feel when we entertain those thoughts, the op-ed argues, saps our willingness to scrutinize, analyze, debate, or reject anything about Islam. And this is dangerous.
Fierce Reactions Aim to Condition Us Into Fear

Although Europe is further along in this process, there is a clear relevance to the United States. We are already being instructed on college campuses and by our own president that Muslims are a sort of protected class regarding criticism. President Obama even went so far as to censor French President François Hollande when he used the forbidden phrase “Islamist terrorism.”
We are already being instructed on college campuses and by our own president that Muslims are a sort of protected class regarding criticism.

The latest incident of shaming those who do push back is happening in Kansas, where the Islamic Society of Wichita invited Sheik Monzer Talib to speak at a fundraising event on Good Friday. Talib is a known fundraiser for Hamas, the militant Islamist Palestinian group that the United States classifies as a terrorist organization. He even has sung a song called “I am from Hamas.” U.S. Rep. Mike Pompeo dared to put out a press release objecting to the speech out of concern that it would harm the Muslim community, particularly in the wake of the Brussels terrorist attack.

In response, the mosque claimed Pompeo stoked prejudice and Islamaphobia and that they had to cancel the event because of protest announcements and because some individuals on Facebook made some offhand comments about guns. Cue a local media frenzy, letters to the editor accusing Pompeo of government overreach, and the predictable arrival of two CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) representatives to skewer Pompeo.

This is just one example of how criticizing or questioning the actions of a Muslim community—even one that is supporting a Hamas fundraiser—has become anathema. The line of acceptability has been moved so now it’s Islamaphobic to object to someone with links to Islamist groups being invited to a U.S. mosque while we’re in the midst of a global battle against Islamist terrorism. People don’t even want to discuss it. The conversation is over. Just as Charlie Hebdo asks, so should we ask ourselves, “How did we get here?”

Although the particulars of the Charlie Hebdo editorial may go too far, and I do not endorse everything the article says, the overarching message is that Europe has slowly let this happen year by year, decade by decade, like a frog in a pot slowly brought to a boil. Post-colonial guilt and shame have stopped Europeans from openly loving and defending their own culture. The state of things in Europe today is the natural conclusion of that neglect. We in America are on the same road.

[Blake]

:lol what an Islamophobe.

[spurraider21]

alarmsim and tinfoil hats aside, there definitely has been some level of desensitization

and there definitely are people like blake who call anybody an islamophobe if they criticize islam, but then goes out of his way to criticize other religions

[xrayzebra]

You may now go to your safe zone now. But hope you don't lose your head being PC.

[Blake]

I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.

OP and most other Islamophobes tend to put blinders on when it comes to Christianity in America from pieces I've seen that are similar to the op. Desensitization will do that.

[DisAsTerBot]

way more concerned with ultra conservative christianity impacting our freedoms than islam any day of the week. tbh

[MultiTroll]

Neighborhoods they are in should have been swept ages ago.

[Blake]

Neighborhoods they are in should have been swept ages ago.

Fabbs hates the constitution

[Quetzal-X]

:lol :rollin:lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.

OP and most other Islamophobes tend to put blinders on when it comes to Christianity in America from pieces I've seen that are similar to the op. Desensitization will do that.
Please link to your criticisms of Islam here.

[Quetzal-X]

As long as it causes old paranoid , xeno, racist , christians to turn to alcohol, tobacco and prescription pills, i'm pretty ok with it tbqmfh

[Blake]

"Quran 9:5 Kill the infidels wherever you find them"

This is a despicable, atrocious verse. Devout, extremist Muslims that follow this teaching are ass backward shit stains on the human race.

[Blake]

Please link to your criticisms of Islam here.

Here's one:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259338&p=8525518

[vy65]

:lol what an Islamophobe.

Which part of that post is islamaphobic?

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lol what an Islamophobe.

From the very man who created the term Islamphobe...Trevor Phillips:

“For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.” :lol

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/581373-islamophobia-muslims-refugees-migrants-wrong-admits-britian-united-kingdom/

[TheSanityAnnex]

Here's one:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259338&p=8525518

Have you ever started a thread criticizing Islam? It's followers have given you ample opportunities over the last year.

[Blake]

Which part of that post is islamaphobic?


We acquiesce, because, as Charlie Hebdo points out, we fear being seen as Islamaphobic or racist. We are made to feel guilty if the thought flashes through our head that we wish that the new sandwich shop run by a Muslim sold bacon, or that a woman wearing a hijab makes us a little uncomfortable. That fear that we feel when we entertain those thoughts, the op-ed argues, saps our willingness to scrutinize, analyze, debate, or reject anything about Islam. And this is dangerous.

:cry the hijab makes me uncomfortable but don't call me an Islamophobe :cry

[RandomGuy]

Ah the perennial stalking horse, "they" want you to be "PC".

Who are "they"?

Define "politically correct", and who is enforcing this, and how?

All I head when I see OP like this is dogwhistle racism of some sort or another, with someone whining about not being allowed to be a xenophobic jackass.

Political islam needs, and deserves the same criticisms that christian theocrats pushing for bible quotes on courthouses, or teaching creationism in classes get.

[Blake]

Have you ever started a thread criticizing Islam? It's followers have given you ample opportunities over the last year.

Plenty of Islamophobia threads started by people like op when extremist terrorists do terrorist stuff.

Let me know when Muslims push creationism, anti-abortion and anti-gay/tranny legislation into our society and I'll start the thread.

[spurraider21]

I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.

OP and most other Islamophobes tend to put blinders on when it comes to Christianity in America from pieces I've seen that are similar to the op. Desensitization will do that.
why have i never seen you criticize islam when its followers do horrible things?

[spurraider21]

From the very man who created the term Islamphobe...Trevor Phillips:

“For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.” :lol

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/581373-islamophobia-muslims-refugees-migrants-wrong-admits-britian-united-kingdom/
can't read that name without thinking of GTA V :lol

[vy65]

:cry the hijab makes me uncomfortable but don't call me an Islamophobe :cry

Hebdo's point is that westerners are conditioned to feel guilt in asking muslims to assimilate. How's that islamaphobic?

[DMX7]

Any Sam Harris fans in here?

[DarrinS]

Any Sam Harris fans in here?

Smart dude. Almost made Ben Affleck have a stroke on Bill Maher's show. :lol

[DarrinS]

Blake,

Is this you?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3528236/Male-Norwegian-politician-raped-asylum-seeker-says-feels-GUILTY-attacker-deported-man-suffer-Somalia.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

Plenty of Islamophobia threads started by people like op when extremist terrorists do terrorist stuff.



I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.
You must post your criticisms of Islam in a secret forum because I've yet to see them.

[DMX7]

Smart dude. Almost made Ben Affleck have a stroke on Bill Maher's show. :lol

Sadly, Ben hardly understood anything he said.

[TheSanityAnnex]

More from the former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission Trevor Phillips, creator of the term Islamophobe.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Magazine/Features/article1685107.ece?shareToken=7aac9d435d3d67eca3da 9b54f3f246df

As a doctrine of religious belief, Islam has never held any terrors for me. I was born in London but grew up in a developing country, now called Guyana, where one in 10 people worshipped Allah — roughly twice the proportion in Britain today. To me, the Muslims were just boys with names like Mohammed and Ishmael; in most things that mattered — could they play cricket or do calculus, for example — they seemed no different from the rest of us. Liberal opinion in Britain has, for more than two decades, maintained that most Muslims are just like everyone else, but with more modest dress sense and more luxuriant facial hair; any differences would fade with time and contact. Britain desperately wants to think of its Muslims as versions of the Great British Bake Off winner Nadiya Hussain, or the cheeky-chappie athlete Mo Farah. But thanks to the most detailed and comprehensive survey of British Muslim opinion yet conducted, we now know that just isn’t how it is.
The survey of British Muslim opinion — What British Muslims Really Think — will be published in full by Channel 4 later this week. I was asked to examine the results and interpret them. When I was chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, I played a principal role in the creation of UK laws against religious discrimination — and it was a report that I commissioned exactly 20 years ago that first introduced the term Islamophobia to Britain.
I thought this latest exercise would be intriguing. In fact, it has turned out to be astonishing. The data collected by the respected research firm ICM shows what the polling experts call “a chasm” opening between Muslims and non-Muslims on such fundamentals as marriage, relations between men and women, schooling, freedom of expression and even the validity of violence in defence of religion. And the chasm isn’t going to disappear any time soon; indeed, the gaps between Muslim and non-Muslim youngsters are nearly as large as those between their elders.
The good news is that the new survey tells us that the majority of British Muslims probably do identify with Nadiya and Mo — albeit with some worrying exceptions. What British Muslims Really Think reveals a Britain we normally don’t hear from. Too often, this section of society is spoken for by self-styled community leaders, or interpreted by academic experts. What’s different about this survey is that it reveals British Muslims speaking for themselves.
To start with, the research was conducted in the old-fashioned way — face to face. The pollster, ICM, was determined to avoid the failures associated with phone and internet polls that led to the political miscalculations in both last year’s general election and the Scottish referendum. It also wanted to avoid the perils of “code-switching”: the all-too-human minority impulse to fit in, to shape your response to meet the expectations of the majority population and to disguise the answer that you think will be too disturbing for people from a different culture to hear. The ICM methodology makes this probably the most revealing inquiry into Muslim opinion yet conducted in this country.
Its findings are striking. And they provide the sternest test yet for diverse Britain’s moral agenda: do we still believe in diversity — even when it collides head-on with our national commitment to equality, between men and women, gay and straight, believers and non-believers? For many years we’ve dodged the tough questions, so this research makes for troubling reading. What it reveals is the unacknowledged creation of a nation within the nation, with its own geography, its own values and its own very separate future.
There are now nearly 3m Muslims living in Britain. Half of them were born abroad, and their numbers are being steadily reinforced by immigration from Africa, the Middle East, eastern Europe and the Far East, as well as the traditional flow from the Indian subcontinent. The best projections suggest that, by the middle of the century, the number of Muslims in Britain and elsewhere in Europe will at least double, given the youthfulness of the communities.
More than eight in 10 Muslims say that they are happy living here, and feel British. Their preoccupations aren’t that different from most people’s: family life, their children ’s future, economic security. But Muslims also prize the British way of life for a reason increasingly unimportant to non-Muslims: freedom to practise their religion any way they see fit. In the Indian subcontinent, Muslims are subject to Hindu persecution. In Nigeria, north Africa and the Middle East, the brutal Islamists of Boko Haram, Isis and al-Qaeda make the slightest deviation a potential suicide mission.
As a young stand-up comic, Aatif Nawaz, told me: “It’s a privilege to live in a country like the UK, which lets us practise our belief. I firmly take this as a privilege. We’re free to go to the mosque, we can pray, we can dress the way we want. We’ve got halal food pretty much everywhere in the UK now — what a time to be alive!”
But while Muslims clearly like Britain, many are not as enthusiastic about their non-Muslim compatriots. Levels of intermarriage are extremely low compared with other minorities: according to the ONS, fewer than one in 10 Muslim Britons of Pakistani or Bangladeshi heritage are in inter-ethnic relationships. (Whereas more than four in 10 African-Caribbeans are in a mixed relationship.) Even fewer relationships between Muslims and non-Muslims produce children — just 3% of Pakistani or Bangladeshi-heritage children live in mixed households. According to ICM, more than half mix with non-Muslims daily, probably at work or college — but 30% never translate that into a friendship that would take them into a non-Muslim’s house more than once a year. One in five never enter a non-Muslim home.

I have some sympathy for this apparent standoffishness. This isn’t always a deliberate policy of self-segregation. As a child, I had some friends whose homes were effectively barred to me — kids I’d played football with all day would be bustled inside at tea time with no invitation to cross the threshold. One of my sisters discovered that her “best” friend had somehow forgotten to invite her to her 17th birthday party. But the separation here isn’t just down to white bigotry. It’s also a consequence of the entrenched residential segregation of which I warned over a decade ago, when I spoke of Britain “sleepwalking to segregation”. Today, according to Policy Exchange’s David Goodhart, author of The British Dream, more than half of ethnic-minority children attend schools where white British children are in the minority.
The social costs are still to be reckoned. Anjum Anwar cuts an unlikely figure when we meet her in Blackburn Cathedral, in an elegant dark suit and close-fitting headscarf. But she is a key figure in the local effort to shed the town’s unenviable status as one of Britain’s most segregated towns. She told us that the Muslim population, now approaching 30%, barely mixed with whites.
“There are certain areas that are wholly Asian, others wholly white. So if you have a child who’s attending a school in an area that is predominantly Asian, where would that child meet children and people of other faiths? They’re restricted, aren’t they? So you have a child who goes to school from nine o’clock till about four o’clock, then he will go to mosque maybe, and then Monday to Friday he is in that area. So where would an Asian and a white child actually meet?”
It’s not as though we couldn’t have seen this coming. But we’ve repeatedly failed to spot the warning signs. Twenty years ago, when, as chair of the Runnymede Trust, I published the report titled Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All, we thought that the real risk of the arrival of new communities was discrimination against Muslims. Our 1996 survey of recent incidents showed that there was plenty of it around. But we got almost everything else wrong. We estimated that the Muslim population of the UK would be approaching 2m by 2020. We underestimated by nearly a million. We predicted that the most lethal threat to Muslims would come from racial attacks and social exclusion. We completely failed to foresee the urban conflicts of 2001 that ravaged our northern cities. And of course we didn’t dream of 9/11 and the atrocities in Madrid, Paris, Istanbul, Brussels and London.
For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.
Just months after I had taken over as head of the Commission for Racial Equality in 2003, I visited the town of Oldham, where some one in five of the population are British Muslims. Two years earlier the town had been torn apart by some of the worst race riots Britain had seen in my lifetime. An official government report had spoken of white and Asian communities living “parallel lives”. It couldn’t really be as bad as that, I thought. In fact, it was worse. Speaking to a hall of more than 200 students, one thing was immediately obvious: groups of white and Asian students sat in the same hall — but the groups didn’t mix. It was like looking at a living chess board. And to drive it home, one of the white students made no bones about what was going on. He told me, without rancour or aggression: “When we’re here it’s fine, we get on. But when we leave here on Friday, we won’t see them [Asians] until Monday.” No one dissented.
After the northern riots of 2001, wise heads, such as Professor Ted Cantle, who had written the “parallel lives” report, warned that we could not afford to allow things to drift. But not even Cantle — much less me — foresaw just how divisive the consequences of this kind of segregation would become. Today, we can see that on certain key issues Britain is nurturing communities with a complete set of alternative values. None is more alarming than attitudes towards women.
The contempt for white girls among some Muslim men has been highlighted by the recent scandals in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale and other towns. But this merely reflects a deeply ingrained sexism that runs through Britain’s Muslim communities.
Most people think that some Muslim men’s attitudes to women may be a little antediluvian. But it comes as a shock to hear a respected Asian head teacher, Noshaba Hussain, soberly recount the behaviour of small boys in her school — which they had surely picked up from the men in their families.
“The boys used to act as thought police. You know, they would go around and actually hit the girls on their heads if their heads weren’t covered. I even had one boy, one nine-year-old boy, say to me, ‘Why haven’t you covered your head? It is only slags who don’t cover their head.’ ”
The ICM survey provides a torrent of data that backs up the impression that this is a community whose idea of women’s equality lies eons away from the mainstream. Two out of five Muslims — men and women — say they believe that a woman should always obey her husband. Nusrat, a highly intelligent and scholarly student, Sudanese in origin, told me: “If the husband is saying ‘obey’ in the context of asking me to do things that are pleasing to Allah, then by all means, because ultimately my faith teaches me — and teaches many Muslims — that our duty is to Allah first.”
We didn’t get to discuss whether the injunction at sura 4:34 of the Koran to chastise your wife falls under this rubric. I have no doubt that many husbands will claim that it does. The bland Koranic platitude, in my view, hides a clear invitation to legitimise domestic violence.
One in three British Muslims supports the right of a man to have more than one wife, even though it is illegal in the UK. While the support for such a policy is strongest among older Muslims, they are nearly matched in their enthusiasm for polygamy by young Muslims aged 18 to 24. Such unions, of course, would be recognised by sharia law. Amra, a female sharia court judge, says: “In my experience, it’s not men who have demanded it; it’s women. I personally have met women who have said to me, ‘I do not want a full-time husband. I don’t want him under my feet.’ For a man it’s a huge responsibility. For a woman it’s a privilege. ”
The ever-pragmatic Nusrat chimed into our conversation with some advice for the aspirant bigamist: “You have to make sure that you are actually treating your wives in a fair way. I think even Islam says, that even within the Koran, if you have more than one wife, if you can’t do justice to them, don’t have them at all. So you have to actually make sure that you are doing justice by them.”
More than half of the sample reported that they believe that homosexuality should be illegal. Even more opposed gay marriage, and nearly half thought that it was unacceptable for a gay person to teach their children. A quarter supported the introduction of sharia law in parts of the UK — presumably those areas where they thought Muslims constitute a majority — instead of the common statute laid down by parliament. Allah’s law, apparently, need take no heed of democracy.
It should come as no surprise that Muslim liberals are in despair. They knew all of this long ago. And unlike the political elite and the liberal media, they recognise that British Muslim opinion is hardening against them. The journalist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, who has had to seek police protection because of her liberal views, argues that the optimistic belief that time and social contact will naturally lead to the integration of Muslims is mistaken: “You know, we [liberal Muslims] are a dying breed — in 10 years there will be very few of us left unless something really important is done.”
The results of the Channel 4 survey are hard to argue with. While the majority of Muslims are keen on Britain, a significant minority really would prefer to live their own lives further away from the rest of us. Non-Muslims who live and work in areas with a large Muslim presence have been uneasily aware of the emerging differences for a long time, but many are too worried about being tagged as Islamophobes to raise the debate.
Many people, however, are just unaware. Not long ago, I had an exchange with a leading newspaper columnist who airily assured me that he had many Muslim friends, and that they were integrating just as his Irish Catholic forebears did a couple of generations ago. He could not accept that his own circle of acquaintances — probably doctors, lawyers, journalists — might not be typical of the British Muslim experience.
The problem with Britain’s liberal white elite is twofold. First, they find it hard to grasp that people of colour may not want to reveal their true selves to people who do not share their backgrounds. The fact is that most people of colour are raised to expect that white folks will let them down. And to be frank, most black and Asian Britons will tell you that their expectations are seldom confounded.
Second, Britain’s increasingly deracinated opinion-forming classes are puzzled by the fierce attachment to religion among ethnic minorities. The number of places of worship attended mostly by Muslims and black evangelicals is rising. The fact that Britain’s ethnic minorities are intensely committed to their religious beliefs and practices seems baffling to secular liberals — indeed, somewhat threatening. Some of my journalist friends imagine that, with time, the Muslims will grow out of it. They won’t.
“What I eat is according to my sharia, how I pray is according to my sharia, how I dress is according to my sharia, how I treat the stranger and family members is according to sharia,” says Anjum Anwar. “I think people misunderstand the concept of sharia law. Their only thinking is, uh-oh, once you’ve got the sharia you’ll be chopping heads off and hands off. That is not the case.”
She’s saying to faithless modern hipsters that she isn’t going to give it up. Anwar spends her time actively working to promote integration. But for her that doesn’t mean adoption of non-Muslim ways. The chasm discovered by ICM isn’t going to close any time soon.
Little of this will surprise Britain’s Muslims, even if many would rather it were not said in public. In our northern cities, many of the non-Muslims I’ve met will also recognise the picture we are painting. It won’t be easy to change. Britain’s Muslims are a diverse group; but, rich or poor, British-born or not, most have a deep commitment to their faith. Many are distressed by what they see as white Britain’s increasing secularism, low morals and loss of confidence in many of its own values. Those who told ICM’s researchers that they would prefer to live a more separate life in Britain are sending a clear signal: they really don’t want to adopt much of our decadent way of life.
Oddly, the biggest obstacles we now face in addressing the growth of this nation-within-a-nation are not created by British Muslims themselves. Many of our (distinctly un-diverse) elite political and media classes simply refuse to acknowledge the truth. Any undesirable behaviours are attributed to poverty and alienation. Backing for violent extremism must be the fault of the Americans. Oppression of women is a cultural trait that will fade with time, nothing to do with the true face of Islam.
Even when confronted with the growing pile of evidence to the contrary, and the angst of the liberal minority of British Muslims, clever, important people still cling to the patronising certainty that British Muslims will, over time, come to see that “our” ways are better. And since there are so few Muslims in the corridors of power, they seldom run into anyone who can show them the reality. Those who do want to make a difference are often consumed by fear that they will be seen as prejudiced. So while our liberal elite wrings its hands in anguish and makes school children celebrate Eid, Diwali, Hanukkah — and Easter — hundreds of young people are being seduced to join Islamist fanatics abroad, thousands of young girls are shipped off to have their genitals mutilated, and many more are pressured into marriages they do not want.
I passionately believe that our society is one of the most open and adaptable on Earth. For centuries we have managed to absorb people of many different backgrounds; Britain has changed them and they have changed us, both almost always for the better. But the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task we’ve ever faced. It will mean abandoning the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and adopting a far more muscular approach to integration.
We’ve been here before. When I was head of the equalities commission, it never occurred to me that we should not take action where people claimed their cultural sensitivities required them to discriminate — for example, the Islington registrar who refused to sanction civil partnerships, or the Bristol relationship counsellor sacked for refusing to give advice to gay couples. Both these individuals were black, like me, and cited their profoundly held religious beliefs in defence of their actions. I understood their background, as I share much of it. But my respect for their sincerity did not for a second deter me from opposing what they did.
While many of us are comfortable condemning less numerous and less powerful minorities, we are reluctant to speak clearly when it comes to Muslims. I know that the muscular integration I want to see will be difficult to implement.
It will mean halting the growth of sharia courts and placing them under regulation, even perhaps insisting that they sit in public. It will mean ensuring that, whatever the composition of a school, its governance never falls into the hands of a single-minority group, as in the “Trojan horse” episode in Birmingham.
It will also mean ensuring mosques that receive a steady flow of funds from foreign governments such as Saudi Arabia, however disguised, are forced to reduce their dependency on Wahhabi patronage. And it will mean an end to the silence-for-votes understanding between local politicians and Muslim leaders — the sort of Pontius Pilate deal that had such catastrophic outcomes in Rotherham and Rochdale.
If we really want to create a society in which Muslims and non-Muslims share the burdens and benefits of our democracy, we have a lot of work to do. And that work has to begin by listening to, and hearing, what British Muslims really think, working out how to support them where possible — and deciding how to confront their thinking where it collides with our fundamental values.

[Blake]

Hebdo's point is that westerners are conditioned to feel guilt in asking muslims to assimilate. How's that islamaphobic?

Lolol. How's it not.

You're such an idiot.

[Blake]

You must post your criticisms of Islam in a secret forum because I've yet to see them.

Their book is stupid. Some of their extremists are terrorists.

What else do you want? What's your criticism of Islam?

[Blake]

More from the former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission Trevor Phillips, creator of the term Islamophobe.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/Magazine/Features/article1685107.ece?shareToken=7aac9d435d3d67eca3da 9b54f3f246df

As a doctrine of religious belief, Islam has never held any terrors for me. I was born in London but grew up in a developing country, now called Guyana, where one in 10 people worshipped Allah — roughly twice the proportion in Britain today. To me, the Muslims were just boys with names like Mohammed and Ishmael; in most things that mattered — could they play cricket or do calculus, for example — they seemed no different from the rest of us. Liberal opinion in Britain has, for more than two decades, maintained that most Muslims are just like everyone else, but with more modest dress sense and more luxuriant facial hair; any differences would fade with time and contact. Britain desperately wants to think of its Muslims as versions of the Great British Bake Off winner Nadiya Hussain, or the cheeky-chappie athlete Mo Farah. But thanks to the most detailed and comprehensive survey of British Muslim opinion yet conducted, we now know that just isn’t how it is.
The survey of British Muslim opinion — What British Muslims Really Think — will be published in full by Channel 4 later this week. I was asked to examine the results and interpret them. When I was chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, I played a principal role in the creation of UK laws against religious discrimination — and it was a report that I commissioned exactly 20 years ago that first introduced the term Islamophobia to Britain.
I thought this latest exercise would be intriguing. In fact, it has turned out to be astonishing. The data collected by the respected research firm ICM shows what the polling experts call “a chasm” opening between Muslims and non-Muslims on such fundamentals as marriage, relations between men and women, schooling, freedom of expression and even the validity of violence in defence of religion. And the chasm isn’t going to disappear any time soon; indeed, the gaps between Muslim and non-Muslim youngsters are nearly as large as those between their elders.
The good news is that the new survey tells us that the majority of British Muslims probably do identify with Nadiya and Mo — albeit with some worrying exceptions. What British Muslims Really Think reveals a Britain we normally don’t hear from. Too often, this section of society is spoken for by self-styled community leaders, or interpreted by academic experts. What’s different about this survey is that it reveals British Muslims speaking for themselves.
To start with, the research was conducted in the old-fashioned way — face to face. The pollster, ICM, was determined to avoid the failures associated with phone and internet polls that led to the political miscalculations in both last year’s general election and the Scottish referendum. It also wanted to avoid the perils of “code-switching”: the all-too-human minority impulse to fit in, to shape your response to meet the expectations of the majority population and to disguise the answer that you think will be too disturbing for people from a different culture to hear. The ICM methodology makes this probably the most revealing inquiry into Muslim opinion yet conducted in this country.
Its findings are striking. And they provide the sternest test yet for diverse Britain’s moral agenda: do we still believe in diversity — even when it collides head-on with our national commitment to equality, between men and women, gay and straight, believers and non-believers? For many years we’ve dodged the tough questions, so this research makes for troubling reading. What it reveals is the unacknowledged creation of a nation within the nation, with its own geography, its own values and its own very separate future.
There are now nearly 3m Muslims living in Britain. Half of them were born abroad, and their numbers are being steadily reinforced by immigration from Africa, the Middle East, eastern Europe and the Far East, as well as the traditional flow from the Indian subcontinent. The best projections suggest that, by the middle of the century, the number of Muslims in Britain and elsewhere in Europe will at least double, given the youthfulness of the communities.
More than eight in 10 Muslims say that they are happy living here, and feel British. Their preoccupations aren’t that different from most people’s: family life, their children ’s future, economic security. But Muslims also prize the British way of life for a reason increasingly unimportant to non-Muslims: freedom to practise their religion any way they see fit. In the Indian subcontinent, Muslims are subject to Hindu persecution. In Nigeria, north Africa and the Middle East, the brutal Islamists of Boko Haram, Isis and al-Qaeda make the slightest deviation a potential suicide mission.
As a young stand-up comic, Aatif Nawaz, told me: “It’s a privilege to live in a country like the UK, which lets us practise our belief. I firmly take this as a privilege. We’re free to go to the mosque, we can pray, we can dress the way we want. We’ve got halal food pretty much everywhere in the UK now — what a time to be alive!”
But while Muslims clearly like Britain, many are not as enthusiastic about their non-Muslim compatriots. Levels of intermarriage are extremely low compared with other minorities: according to the ONS, fewer than one in 10 Muslim Britons of Pakistani or Bangladeshi heritage are in inter-ethnic relationships. (Whereas more than four in 10 African-Caribbeans are in a mixed relationship.) Even fewer relationships between Muslims and non-Muslims produce children — just 3% of Pakistani or Bangladeshi-heritage children live in mixed households. According to ICM, more than half mix with non-Muslims daily, probably at work or college — but 30% never translate that into a friendship that would take them into a non-Muslim’s house more than once a year. One in five never enter a non-Muslim home.

I have some sympathy for this apparent standoffishness. This isn’t always a deliberate policy of self-segregation. As a child, I had some friends whose homes were effectively barred to me — kids I’d played football with all day would be bustled inside at tea time with no invitation to cross the threshold. One of my sisters discovered that her “best” friend had somehow forgotten to invite her to her 17th birthday party. But the separation here isn’t just down to white bigotry. It’s also a consequence of the entrenched residential segregation of which I warned over a decade ago, when I spoke of Britain “sleepwalking to segregation”. Today, according to Policy Exchange’s David Goodhart, author of The British Dream, more than half of ethnic-minority children attend schools where white British children are in the minority.
The social costs are still to be reckoned. Anjum Anwar cuts an unlikely figure when we meet her in Blackburn Cathedral, in an elegant dark suit and close-fitting headscarf. But she is a key figure in the local effort to shed the town’s unenviable status as one of Britain’s most segregated towns. She told us that the Muslim population, now approaching 30%, barely mixed with whites.
“There are certain areas that are wholly Asian, others wholly white. So if you have a child who’s attending a school in an area that is predominantly Asian, where would that child meet children and people of other faiths? They’re restricted, aren’t they? So you have a child who goes to school from nine o’clock till about four o’clock, then he will go to mosque maybe, and then Monday to Friday he is in that area. So where would an Asian and a white child actually meet?”
It’s not as though we couldn’t have seen this coming. But we’ve repeatedly failed to spot the warning signs. Twenty years ago, when, as chair of the Runnymede Trust, I published the report titled Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All, we thought that the real risk of the arrival of new communities was discrimination against Muslims. Our 1996 survey of recent incidents showed that there was plenty of it around. But we got almost everything else wrong. We estimated that the Muslim population of the UK would be approaching 2m by 2020. We underestimated by nearly a million. We predicted that the most lethal threat to Muslims would come from racial attacks and social exclusion. We completely failed to foresee the urban conflicts of 2001 that ravaged our northern cities. And of course we didn’t dream of 9/11 and the atrocities in Madrid, Paris, Istanbul, Brussels and London.
For a long time, I too thought that Europe’s Muslims would become like previous waves of migrants, gradually abandoning their ancestral ways, wearing their religious and cultural baggage lightly, and gradually blending into Britain’s diverse identity landscape. I should have known better.
Just months after I had taken over as head of the Commission for Racial Equality in 2003, I visited the town of Oldham, where some one in five of the population are British Muslims. Two years earlier the town had been torn apart by some of the worst race riots Britain had seen in my lifetime. An official government report had spoken of white and Asian communities living “parallel lives”. It couldn’t really be as bad as that, I thought. In fact, it was worse. Speaking to a hall of more than 200 students, one thing was immediately obvious: groups of white and Asian students sat in the same hall — but the groups didn’t mix. It was like looking at a living chess board. And to drive it home, one of the white students made no bones about what was going on. He told me, without rancour or aggression: “When we’re here it’s fine, we get on. But when we leave here on Friday, we won’t see them [Asians] until Monday.” No one dissented.
After the northern riots of 2001, wise heads, such as Professor Ted Cantle, who had written the “parallel lives” report, warned that we could not afford to allow things to drift. But not even Cantle — much less me — foresaw just how divisive the consequences of this kind of segregation would become. Today, we can see that on certain key issues Britain is nurturing communities with a complete set of alternative values. None is more alarming than attitudes towards women.
The contempt for white girls among some Muslim men has been highlighted by the recent scandals in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale and other towns. But this merely reflects a deeply ingrained sexism that runs through Britain’s Muslim communities.
Most people think that some Muslim men’s attitudes to women may be a little antediluvian. But it comes as a shock to hear a respected Asian head teacher, Noshaba Hussain, soberly recount the behaviour of small boys in her school — which they had surely picked up from the men in their families.
“The boys used to act as thought police. You know, they would go around and actually hit the girls on their heads if their heads weren’t covered. I even had one boy, one nine-year-old boy, say to me, ‘Why haven’t you covered your head? It is only slags who don’t cover their head.’ ”
The ICM survey provides a torrent of data that backs up the impression that this is a community whose idea of women’s equality lies eons away from the mainstream. Two out of five Muslims — men and women — say they believe that a woman should always obey her husband. Nusrat, a highly intelligent and scholarly student, Sudanese in origin, told me: “If the husband is saying ‘obey’ in the context of asking me to do things that are pleasing to Allah, then by all means, because ultimately my faith teaches me — and teaches many Muslims — that our duty is to Allah first.”
We didn’t get to discuss whether the injunction at sura 4:34 of the Koran to chastise your wife falls under this rubric. I have no doubt that many husbands will claim that it does. The bland Koranic platitude, in my view, hides a clear invitation to legitimise domestic violence.
One in three British Muslims supports the right of a man to have more than one wife, even though it is illegal in the UK. While the support for such a policy is strongest among older Muslims, they are nearly matched in their enthusiasm for polygamy by young Muslims aged 18 to 24. Such unions, of course, would be recognised by sharia law. Amra, a female sharia court judge, says: “In my experience, it’s not men who have demanded it; it’s women. I personally have met women who have said to me, ‘I do not want a full-time husband. I don’t want him under my feet.’ For a man it’s a huge responsibility. For a woman it’s a privilege. ”
The ever-pragmatic Nusrat chimed into our conversation with some advice for the aspirant bigamist: “You have to make sure that you are actually treating your wives in a fair way. I think even Islam says, that even within the Koran, if you have more than one wife, if you can’t do justice to them, don’t have them at all. So you have to actually make sure that you are doing justice by them.”
More than half of the sample reported that they believe that homosexuality should be illegal. Even more opposed gay marriage, and nearly half thought that it was unacceptable for a gay person to teach their children. A quarter supported the introduction of sharia law in parts of the UK — presumably those areas where they thought Muslims constitute a majority — instead of the common statute laid down by parliament. Allah’s law, apparently, need take no heed of democracy.
It should come as no surprise that Muslim liberals are in despair. They knew all of this long ago. And unlike the political elite and the liberal media, they recognise that British Muslim opinion is hardening against them. The journalist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, who has had to seek police protection because of her liberal views, argues that the optimistic belief that time and social contact will naturally lead to the integration of Muslims is mistaken: “You know, we [liberal Muslims] are a dying breed — in 10 years there will be very few of us left unless something really important is done.”
The results of the Channel 4 survey are hard to argue with. While the majority of Muslims are keen on Britain, a significant minority really would prefer to live their own lives further away from the rest of us. Non-Muslims who live and work in areas with a large Muslim presence have been uneasily aware of the emerging differences for a long time, but many are too worried about being tagged as Islamophobes to raise the debate.
Many people, however, are just unaware. Not long ago, I had an exchange with a leading newspaper columnist who airily assured me that he had many Muslim friends, and that they were integrating just as his Irish Catholic forebears did a couple of generations ago. He could not accept that his own circle of acquaintances — probably doctors, lawyers, journalists — might not be typical of the British Muslim experience.
The problem with Britain’s liberal white elite is twofold. First, they find it hard to grasp that people of colour may not want to reveal their true selves to people who do not share their backgrounds. The fact is that most people of colour are raised to expect that white folks will let them down. And to be frank, most black and Asian Britons will tell you that their expectations are seldom confounded.
Second, Britain’s increasingly deracinated opinion-forming classes are puzzled by the fierce attachment to religion among ethnic minorities. The number of places of worship attended mostly by Muslims and black evangelicals is rising. The fact that Britain’s ethnic minorities are intensely committed to their religious beliefs and practices seems baffling to secular liberals — indeed, somewhat threatening. Some of my journalist friends imagine that, with time, the Muslims will grow out of it. They won’t.
“What I eat is according to my sharia, how I pray is according to my sharia, how I dress is according to my sharia, how I treat the stranger and family members is according to sharia,” says Anjum Anwar. “I think people misunderstand the concept of sharia law. Their only thinking is, uh-oh, once you’ve got the sharia you’ll be chopping heads off and hands off. That is not the case.”
She’s saying to faithless modern hipsters that she isn’t going to give it up. Anwar spends her time actively working to promote integration. But for her that doesn’t mean adoption of non-Muslim ways. The chasm discovered by ICM isn’t going to close any time soon.
Little of this will surprise Britain’s Muslims, even if many would rather it were not said in public. In our northern cities, many of the non-Muslims I’ve met will also recognise the picture we are painting. It won’t be easy to change. Britain’s Muslims are a diverse group; but, rich or poor, British-born or not, most have a deep commitment to their faith. Many are distressed by what they see as white Britain’s increasing secularism, low morals and loss of confidence in many of its own values. Those who told ICM’s researchers that they would prefer to live a more separate life in Britain are sending a clear signal: they really don’t want to adopt much of our decadent way of life.
Oddly, the biggest obstacles we now face in addressing the growth of this nation-within-a-nation are not created by British Muslims themselves. Many of our (distinctly un-diverse) elite political and media classes simply refuse to acknowledge the truth. Any undesirable behaviours are attributed to poverty and alienation. Backing for violent extremism must be the fault of the Americans. Oppression of women is a cultural trait that will fade with time, nothing to do with the true face of Islam.
Even when confronted with the growing pile of evidence to the contrary, and the angst of the liberal minority of British Muslims, clever, important people still cling to the patronising certainty that British Muslims will, over time, come to see that “our” ways are better. And since there are so few Muslims in the corridors of power, they seldom run into anyone who can show them the reality. Those who do want to make a difference are often consumed by fear that they will be seen as prejudiced. So while our liberal elite wrings its hands in anguish and makes school children celebrate Eid, Diwali, Hanukkah — and Easter — hundreds of young people are being seduced to join Islamist fanatics abroad, thousands of young girls are shipped off to have their genitals mutilated, and many more are pressured into marriages they do not want.
I passionately believe that our society is one of the most open and adaptable on Earth. For centuries we have managed to absorb people of many different backgrounds; Britain has changed them and they have changed us, both almost always for the better. But the integration of Muslims will probably be the hardest task we’ve ever faced. It will mean abandoning the milk-and-water multiculturalism still so beloved of many, and adopting a far more muscular approach to integration.
We’ve been here before. When I was head of the equalities commission, it never occurred to me that we should not take action where people claimed their cultural sensitivities required them to discriminate — for example, the Islington registrar who refused to sanction civil partnerships, or the Bristol relationship counsellor sacked for refusing to give advice to gay couples. Both these individuals were black, like me, and cited their profoundly held religious beliefs in defence of their actions. I understood their background, as I share much of it. But my respect for their sincerity did not for a second deter me from opposing what they did.
While many of us are comfortable condemning less numerous and less powerful minorities, we are reluctant to speak clearly when it comes to Muslims. I know that the muscular integration I want to see will be difficult to implement.
It will mean halting the growth of sharia courts and placing them under regulation, even perhaps insisting that they sit in public. It will mean ensuring that, whatever the composition of a school, its governance never falls into the hands of a single-minority group, as in the “Trojan horse” episode in Birmingham.
It will also mean ensuring mosques that receive a steady flow of funds from foreign governments such as Saudi Arabia, however disguised, are forced to reduce their dependency on Wahhabi patronage. And it will mean an end to the silence-for-votes understanding between local politicians and Muslim leaders — the sort of Pontius Pilate deal that had such catastrophic outcomes in Rotherham and Rochdale.
If we really want to create a society in which Muslims and non-Muslims share the burdens and benefits of our democracy, we have a lot of work to do. And that work has to begin by listening to, and hearing, what British Muslims really think, working out how to support them where possible — and deciding how to confront their thinking where it collides with our fundamental values.




So should they be allowed to have AR15s with standard 30 round capacity

[vy65]

Lolol. How's it not.

You're such an idiot.

That's your burden of proof. You said it was :cry islamaphobic :cry to feel uncomfortable about a hijab. The article didn't defend having that reaction about the hijab. It criticized the link between that discomfort, guilt, and the refusal to criticize islam. Your :cry islamaphobic :cry isn't a point being made in the article.

Not surprised that the nuance is lost on you, idiot.

[Blake]

Blake,

Is this you?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3528236/Male-Norwegian-politician-raped-asylum-seeker-says-feels-GUILTY-attacker-deported-man-suffer-Somalia.html

No, I'm not a Norwegian asylum seeking rapist.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Their book is stupid. Some of their extremists are terrorists.

What else do you want? What's your criticism of Islam?

"I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things."
You don't though, and it is not even an argument. I just want you to be honest that is all, pretending you criticize Islam as much as you do Christianity is nothing but a lie.

[TheSanityAnnex]

So should they be allowed to have AR15s with standard 30 round capacity

Blake with the white flag

[Blake]

That's your burden of proof. You said it was :cry islamaphobic :cry to feel uncomfortable about a hijab. The article didn't defend having that reaction about the hijab. It criticized the link between that discomfort, guilt, and the refusal to criticize islam. What you're :cry islamaphobic :cry isn't a point being made in the article.

Not surprised that the nuance is lost on you, idiot.

Of course they want women to assimilate and take off the hajib. They're tired of scooping the fear induced shit out of their shorts.

I know you're gonna come back with something else stupid because that's what you do. I'll be waiting with an lol, and that's all.

[vy65]

Of course they want women to assimilate and take off the hajib. They're tired of scooping the fear induced shit out of their shorts.

So your position now is that asking immigrants to assimilate = :cry islamaphobia :cry?

Good on you to realize your original take was wrong tho :tu


I know you're gonna come back with something else stupid because that's what you do. I'll be waiting with more inane stupidity seeped in white guilt and cuckoldry, and that's all.

Sure

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For me it's really simple. I have a litmus test. If a muslim thinks that Hadith are the literal binding word of God then they are delusionally dangerous.

90% of the muslim world thinks that Sharia which is more or less a hodge-podge of Hadith is legitimate so over in Jalalabad and the like Westerners have reason for concern.

We really haven't talked about what American Muslims think. In the conversations I hear in the press Hadith are hardly ever mentioned. The muslims themselves seem to either repudiate them or go back to the delusion well and look for different Hadith that say what they want against violence and the like when they are questioned.

I think just like with Christianity and it's delusions, we should remain vigilant. Political Islam is one of the biggest issues in the world.

[Blake]

So your position now is that asking immigrants to assimilate = :cry islamaphobia :cry?

Good on you to realize your original take was wrong tho :tu



Sure

Lol you're stupid.

[Blake]

Blake with the white flag

TSA shouting victory behind a giant wall of text

[Blake]

"I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things."
You don't though, and it is not even an argument. I just want you to be honest that is all, pretending you criticize Islam as much as you do Christianity is nothing but a lie.

I never said I criticize them with an equal amount of messageboard posts. They're not equal to criticize in our society.

What's your criticism of Islam?

[spurraider21]

For me it's really simple. I have a litmus test. If a muslim thinks that Hadith are the literal binding word of God then they are delusionally dangerous.

90% of the muslim world thinks that Sharia which is more or less a hodge-podge of Hadith is legitimate so over in Jalalabad and the like Westerners have reason for concern.

We really haven't talked about what American Muslims think. In the conversations I hear in the press Hadith are hardly ever mentioned. The muslims themselves seem to either repudiate them or go back to the delusion well and look for different Hadith that say what they want against violence and the like when they are questioned.

I think just like with Christianity and it's delusions, we should remain vigilant. Political Islam is one of the biggest issues in the world.
^islamophobe

[vy65]

Blake with the white flag

[Blake]

So your position now is that asking immigrants to assimilate = :cry islamaphobia :cry?

Good on you to realize your original take was wrong tho :tu



Sure

Feel free to justify asking Muslims to assimilate at any time

[vy65]

Feel free to justify asking Muslims to assimilate at any time

So you've given up on calling the article :cry islamaphobic :cry and are now generally white knighting for muslims en masse. Sweet.


Asking immigrants to assimilate doesn’t mean white-washing their culture and religion, asking them not to wear the hijab, or demanding that they eat pork. But it does mean asking them to accept, to some degree, the culture of the country to which they have willingly moved. These are things like women’s rights, tolerance, free speech, or criticism of religion. It also means not having to apologize for having a culture of one’s own. This is the point that Michel Houellebecq made in his recent novel, “Submission.”

This thread has given you the opportunity to cry about abortion rights, gay rights, tranny rights, etc... but you've chosen to white knight for muslims, rather than treat them the same way you treat christians

[Blake]

So you've given up on calling the article :cry islamaphobic :cry and are now generally white knighting for muslims en masse. Sweet.



This thread has given you the opportunity to cry about abortion rights, gay rights, tranny rights, etc... but you've chosen to white knight for muslims, rather than treat them the same way you treat christians

No, the article is still Islamophobic. The discomfort of seeing hajibs is proof enough. The rest of your rambling is just you being stupid.

[Blake]

Feel free to justify asking Muslims to assimilate at any time

[ElNono]

Food for thought. Political Correctness will be death of our country, what little is left.

PC is the boogeyman du jour in the conservative agenda.... there's a constitutional guarantee that allows you to be not PC...

Now, if it bothers you that it culturally might reflect poorly on your persona, then that's entirely your problem.

[boutons_deux]

PC is the Repug/Fox euphemism they hate and ridicule, because PC is about the common decency of avoiding referring to blacks as knitters, or to Muslims as terrorists, or to Amerindians as redskin savages.

[vy65]

PC is the boogeyman du jour in the conservative agenda.... there's a constitutional guarantee that allows you to be not PC...

Now, if it bothers you that it culturally might reflect poorly on your persona, then that's entirely your problem.

I think most conservatives would classify their criticism as a cultural/social one. I don't think that they're claiming the gubmint is mandating political correctness.

[MultiTroll]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MultiTroll (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8525505#post8525505)

Neighborhoods they are in should have been swept ages ago.


Fabbs hates the constitution
Blake hates seeing plans involving nail bombs and machine gunning and explosives killing innocents get thwarted.

[Blake]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MultiTroll (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8525505#post8525505)

Blake hates seeing plans involving nail bombs and machine gunning and explosives killing innocents get thwarted.

Fabbs leaving no doubt about his hate of religious freedom

[MultiTroll]

Fabbs leaving no doubt about his hate of religious freedom
Blake hates seeing the *religious freedoms* of UnIslamic terrorists be curbed.
He'd rather they have the freedom to blow up innocents such in Paris, Belgium, New York City, San Bernadino etc .
Blake loves it when terrorists the world wide globe over to have freedom to murder.

[xrayzebra]

PC is the Repug/Fox euphemism they hate and ridicule, because PC is about the common decency of avoiding referring to blacks as knitters, or to Muslims as terrorists, or to Amerindians as redskin savages.


vy65


Now, if it bothers you that it culturally might reflect poorly on your persona, then that's entirely your problem.
I think most conservatives would classify their criticism as a cultural/social one. I don't think that they're claiming the gubmint is mandating political correctness.

So censoring the French Presidents comments is not "gubmit" interference? boutons, do you consider that polite? and decent?

White House censors French president for saying ‘Islamist terrorism’

http://nypost.com/2016/04/02/white-house-doctors-video-to-remove-islamic-terrorism-quote/

[xrayzebra]

PC is the boogeyman du jour in the conservative agenda.... there's a constitutional guarantee that allows you to be not PC...

Now, if it bothers you that it culturally might reflect poorly on your persona, then that's entirely your problem.

Really, would you mind telling that to your Liberal buddies that refuse to let others say something they disagree with? Like "Black Lives Matter" and college students who have refused to let some people speak at their colleges. You are full of it. You know I am right, pure and simple. And even our glorious President who censors the leaders of other nations. Grow up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really, would you mind telling that to your Liberal buddies that refuse to let others say something they disagree with? Like "Black Lives Matter" and college students who have refused to let some people speak at their colleges. You are full of it. You know I am right, pure and simple. And even our glorious President who censors the leaders of other nations. Grow up.

:lol you conflated POTUS with BLM? the race delusion is as bad as the god delusion.

[xrayzebra]

:lol you conflated POTUS with BLM? the race delusion is as bad as the god delusion.

No, you have a problem with comprehension. The subject was PC and Free Speech. Both the BLM and President were censoring the speaker. BLM to the point, in one instance, of taking over the podium of a candidate for President. And how many instances have there been where college students(?) have shouted down or rushed the stage of Conservative speakers. Refusing to let them speak.

Gp bacl and read my answers in my post.

[Blake]

Blake hates seeing the *religious freedoms* of UnIslamic terrorists be curbed.
He'd rather they have the freedom to blow up innocents such in Paris, Belgium, New York City, San Bernadino etc .
Blake loves it when terrorists the world wide globe over to have freedom to murder.

So what exactly do you propose to do about Islam in America?

[MultiTroll]

So what exactly do you propose to do about Islam in America?
Nothing, except ask for more cooperation in identifying the extremists. UnIslamic terrorism?
Act on intelligence. Neighborhoods that are hot beds such as the Beligium hood that housed the bombing faggots should be turned upside down. Rights of innocents to live >>>>>>>>>>>> outweighs you getting upset because Abdeslams underwear drawer was upset in a search that thwarts a bombing.

[Pelicans78]

For me it's really simple. I have a litmus test. If a muslim thinks that Hadith are the literal binding word of God then they are delusionally dangerous.

90% of the muslim world thinks that Sharia which is more or less a hodge-podge of Hadith is legitimate so over in Jalalabad and the like Westerners have reason for concern.

We really haven't talked about what American Muslims think. In the conversations I hear in the press Hadith are hardly ever mentioned. The muslims themselves seem to either repudiate them or go back to the delusion well and look for different Hadith that say what they want against violence and the like when they are questioned.

I think just like with Christianity and it's delusions, we should remain vigilant. Political Islam is one of the biggest issues in the world.

The Wahhabi movement started the idea of incorporating the Hadiths as the word of God. In my opinion, if a wahabbi is spotted anywhere, he should be either stabbed or shot on sight.

[Pelicans78]

Nothing, except ask for more cooperation in identifying the extremists. UnIslamic terrorism?
Act on intelligence. Neighborhoods that are hot beds such as the Beligium hood that housed the bombing faggots should be turned upside down. Rights of innocents to live >>>>>>>>>>>> outweighs you getting upset because Abdeslams underwear drawer was upset in a search that thwarts a bombing.

America doesn't have the same problem as Belgium or European. There no extremist neighborhoods breeding terrorists because Muslims have been scrutinized as much as anyone in this country since 9/11.

[MultiTroll]

America doesn't have the same problem as Belgium or European. There no extremist neighborhoods breeding terrorists because Muslims have been scrutinized as much as anyone in this country since 9/11.
:lol wrong

[Blake]

Neighborhoods that are hot beds such as the Beligium hood that housed the bombing faggots should be turned upside down. Rights of innocents to live >>>>>>>>>>>> outweighs you getting upset because Abdeslams underwear drawer was upset in a search that thwarts a bombing.

So everyone in the neighborhood gets their underwear drawers turned over?

[MultiTroll]

So everyone in the neighborhood gets their underwear drawers turned over?
If intelligence shows potential bombers like the Belgium tards, done.
I don't care if you are in the room sniffing them at the time of the search.

[Pelicans78]

:lol wrong

Prove it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Wahhabi movement started the idea of incorporating the Hadiths as the word of God. In my opinion, if a wahabbi is spotted anywhere, he should be either stabbed or shot on sight.

The first Hadith were created by Abu and the Damascenes before the 7th century was even over. They set up their court system and the like based on it. They have been touted as the words of the prophet since the beginning.

[MultiTroll]

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/us/terror-charges-refugees/

[MultiTroll]

Prove it.
more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html

[ElNono]

I think most conservatives would classify their criticism as a cultural/social one. I don't think that they're claiming the gubmint is mandating political correctness.

But grandiose rhetoric like "Political Correctness will be death of our country" is ridiculous. You don't agree with cultural changes? That's fine, you're far from the first person to feel that way, and how you feel is entirely your problem.

[Pelicans78]

more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html

You supplied individuals while I asked for specific neighborhoods that were considered breeding ground for terrorism.

[Pelicans78]

The first Hadith were created by Abu and the Damascenes before the 7th century was even over. They set up their court system and the like based on it. They have been touted as the words of the prophet since the beginning.

Hadiths have always been touted as the words of Mohammad, but the Wahabbi movement in the 18th-19th century made it mandatory to follow all Hadiths and made them equal to the Koran.

[ElNono]

Really, would you mind telling that to your Liberal buddies that refuse to let others say something they disagree with? Like "Black Lives Matter" and college students who have refused to let some people speak at their colleges. You are full of it. You know I am right, pure and simple. And even our glorious President who censors the leaders of other nations. Grow up.

NOW, we get to the issue here. Those "some people" you refer to can speak freely, but the fact that either there's no audience or that the audience disagree with the message is what really bothers you. Again, this is YOUR problem.

There's nothing stopping anybody from being xenophobes, Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing. Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story.

Generally speaking, we've largely moved on from those things culturally as a society for a while now, for a number of reasons (among them, logically speaking, there's a lot to lose for taking those positions, whereas there's nothing to lose by not adopting them).

In the end, you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man.

[MultiTroll]

You supplied individuals while I asked for specific neighborhoods that were considered breeding ground for terrorism.
The FBI page gave some neighborhoods. Here are more:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2010/08/10/america-s-muslim-capitals.html

[MultiTroll]

If Donny Trump gets elected we'll be shaking down these breeding grounds.
2. Little puss asses like Zuckerberg at Facebook and the Apple phaggot will cooperate or be jailed.

[ElNono]

I'm not even a big fan of everything PC, but I completely understand why it happens. ie: why companies boycott states with this BS "religious freedom" laws which are really a not-so-subtle attempt to go after the LGBT community.

[ElNono]

If Donny Trump gets elected we'll be shaking down these breeding grounds.
2. Little puss asses like Zuckerberg at Facebook and the Apple phaggot will cooperate or be jailed.

Hate to tell you, but it doesn't work like that. And I'm not even a fan of Zuckerberg...

[MultiTroll]

Hate to tell you, but it doesn't work like that. And I'm not even a fan of Zuckerberg...
They're out there Brother.
http://allnewspipeline.com/City_Map_ISIS_Social_Media_Master_Plan.php

https://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/david-duchovny-x-files-interview-ftr.jpg?w=600&h=750&crop=1

[ElNono]

They're out there Brother.
http://allnewspipeline.com/City_Map_ISIS_Social_Media_Master_Plan.php

Not saying they're not, but this idea that King Trump is going to take over Congress and our Judicial system is "way out there"...

Frankly, I'm pretty sure there's plenty surveillance going on already. This is stuff that's not supposed to be public anyways, so it makes sense nobody hears about it.

[Winehole23]

The first Hadith were created by Abu and the Damascenes before the 7th century was even over. They set up their court system and the like based on it. They have been touted as the words of the prophet since the beginning.^^ST politroll, self-designated Arabist. he makes stuff up sometimes.

he's probably more or less right about this. discrete facts he tends to get right. interpretation is what he sucks at.

[Pelicans78]

The FBI page gave some neighborhoods. Here are more:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2010/08/10/america-s-muslim-capitals.html

These arent neighborhoods. These are just major cities with Muslim populations. You can't give specifics because you don't have specifics. No reason to discuss with an inferior intelligence like you.

[spurraider21]

But grandiose rhetoric like "Political Correctness will be death of our country" is ridiculous. You don't agree with cultural changes? That's fine, you're far from the first person to feel that way, and how you feel is entirely your problem.
we're fighting a politically correct war. they're chopping heads and drowning people in cages, and we can't waterboard them? how can we defeat our enemy if we're on a different playing field?

/trump

:lol

[Winehole23]

for example, he blames the big sociopolitical mess on baby boomers. really doctrinaire view about this.

[Winehole23]

we're fighting a politically correct war. they're chopping heads and drowning people in cages, and we can't waterboard them? how can we defeat our enemy if we're on a different playing field?

/trump

:lolActually, we didn't fight a politically correct war on terror.

We invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. We murdered and tortured detainees. The ones who survived, we imprisoned indefinitely. Some of them are still imprisoned.

[Winehole23]

there's an ongoing drone war that kills noncombatants. the figure exceeds a thousand souls at this point.

[spurraider21]

lol souls

[Winehole23]

Muslims in the USA have already been subject to intensive surveillance by LE with very little to show for it. and not a little irregular justice.

[Winehole23]

what about any of that is politically correct?

[Winehole23]

lol soulsyou laugh at faraway people who die. I guess you didn't owe them anything besides your tacit or enthusiastic approval of the US government policy that kills them.

[Winehole23]

the CIA straight up admitted it doesn't know who all it kills in these drone strikes..

[spurraider21]

you laugh at faraway people who die. I guess you didn't owe them anything besides your tacit or enthusiastic approval of the US government policy that kills them.
no, i'm laughing at your choice of words. but keep projecting

[Winehole23]

I projected that you didn't care. Seems spot on so far... do you deny it?

[Winehole23]

what's so politically correct about the war on terror as conducted to date, given domestic surveillance, torture and indefinite detention?

[Winehole23]

Sen. Lindsay Graham described the Abu Ghraib videotapes on TV as containing scenes of rape and murder. "Serious crimes," he said.

[Winehole23]

was that politically correct?

[Winehole23]

was it politically correct that Gen.Taguba was instructed to retire shortly after telling the truth about Abu Ghraib? this was 2007...

[Winehole23]

was political correctness in full sway when we rendered an innocent Canadian engineer, Maher Arar, to be tortured by the Syrians? this was 2002.

[Winehole23]

NYPD monitored mosques for years. got bupkis.

[Winehole23]

surely that wasn't from any surfeit of social propriety.

Ted Cruz recently expressed a similar determination after the Brussels bombing -- sweep the Arab section -- of the USA.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

for example, he blames the big sociopolitical mess on baby boomers. really doctrinaire view about this.

:lol I don't even think in those terms. most of that commentary came out from the millennial v boomer pissing contest that started when the millennials began coming of age.

Just another one of the factually correct interpretations you hate so much. I'm not going to apologize because I try to make my opinions informed. We don't don't necessarily disagree all that much; you just get upset when I do.

You always come at me spiteful when I write about the god delusion too.

[Chinook]

PC is only a problem in cases like the clock kid where people don't want to believe the kid did anything wrong and instead blamed everything on prejudice. I think Americans at least are doing a decent job at respecting the cultural differences without really changing our values to meet them. We may not bat an eye when hijab-wearing women show up, but we also aren't covering up our own bikini-wearing women to make the conservative Muslim men more comfortable.

[Blake]

PC is only a problem in cases like the clock kid where people don't want to believe the kid did anything wrong and instead blamed everything on prejudice.

The kid did nothing wrong but was arrested and left in handcuffs in front of the school.

If you're not going to blame prejudice, then what are you going to blame?

[Blake]

2. Little puss asses like Zuckerberg at Facebook and the Apple phaggot will cooperate or be jailed.

I read that in WW2 German voice

[Chinook]

The kid did nothing wrong but was arrested and left in handcuffs in front of the school.

If you're not going to blame prejudice, then what are you going to blame?

Yeah...

[Blake]

Yeah...

What did he do that was illegal?

[Chinook]

What did he do that was illegal?

What did the teachers do that was illegal?

[lebomb]

way more concerned with ultra conservative christianity impacting our freedoms than islam any day of the week. tbh

Then you are extremely stupid.

[Blake]

What did the teachers do that was illegal?

Oh cool answering a question with a question

The teachers did nothing illegal. But they didn't get arrested. What did Ahmed do that was illegal?

[Blake]

Then you are extremely stupid.

You're pretty ignorant.

[Winehole23]

You always come at me spiteful when I write about the god delusion too.it may seem spiteful to you, but it's just description. no hate.

[MultiTroll]

Oh cool answering a question with a question

The teachers did nothing illegal. But they didn't get arrested. What did Ahmed do that was illegal?
There is a whole thread on this if you want to revive the subject.

[Chinook]

Oh cool answering a question with a question

Yeah, because you don't do that a ton.


The teachers did nothing illegal. But they didn't get arrested. What did Ahmed do that was illegal?

He didn't do anything illegal, hence why he wasn't charged and put on trial.

[Blake]

There is a whole thread on this if you want to revive the subject.

I didn't bring it up

[Blake]

Yeah, because you don't do that a ton.

Usually for clarification. Yours was completely irrelevant.




He didn't do anything illegal, hence why he wasn't charged and put on trial.

Right but he got arrested any way.

Pretty clear why. And some are ok with treating people unfairly like that.

[Spurminator]

If only we said "Islamist terrorism" more, we would wipe out Muslim extremists worldwide. We are losing the war because our President won't say it.

I hear on the 1 billionth uttering of that phrase, the Prophet Muhammed reappears to be baptized into Christianity by Jesus Christ himself and everyone gets a brand new F150.

[DarrinS]

If only we said "Islamist terrorism" more, we would wipe out Muslim extremists worldwide. We are losing the war because our President won't say it.

I hear on the 1 billionth uttering of that phrase, the Prophet Muhammed reappears to be baptized into Christianity by Jesus Christ himself and everyone gets a brand new F150.


How long did you work on that?

[Spurminator]

How long did you work on that?

Took about two weeks from concept to first draft, but then we had some revisions based on feedback from focus groups (for example, they thought our original threshold of 1 million utterances was unrealistically small) so we went back and retooled over the next couple of weeks before presenting the final draft for publication this morning.

We were hoping to publish before the Clock Boy story was brought back up, but sometimes delays happen in this business.

[Chinook]

Usually for clarification. Yours was completely irrelevant.

No, it wasn't.


Right but he got arrested any way.

You don't have to do something illegal to get arrested. If that were the case, there'd be no need for trials.


Pretty clear why.

Yeah, because the kid was being an asshole by repeatedly plugging in his experiment despite repeated requests to stop doing it by teachers. But by all means, chalk it up to discrimination and prove my point.

[apalisoc_9]

No, it wasn't.



You don't have to do something illegal to get arrested. If that were the case, there'd be no need for trials.



Yeah, because the kid was being an asshole by repeatedly plugging in his experiment despite repeated requests to stop doing it by teachers. But by all means, chalk it up to discrimination and prove my point.

That's the problem. For what reason was the kid arrested other than having a "suspicious" clock. The school didnt repeatdly asked him smto stop plugging, they just called the cops on him. If you dont think there is fundamentally wrong or discriminatory about calling the cops on middle eastern kid with an innocent project then I dont know what to tell you.

Getting arrested and publicly humiliated for nothing is a big deal. Try being in that situation

[xrayzebra]

NOW, we get to the issue here. Those "some people" you refer to can speak freely, but the fact that either there's no audience or that the audience disagree with the message is what really bothers you. Again, this is YOUR problem.

There's nothing stopping anybody from being xenophobes, Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing. Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story.

Generally speaking, we've largely moved on from those things culturally as a society for a while now, for a number of reasons (among them, logically speaking, there's a lot to lose for taking those positions, whereas there's nothing to lose by not adopting them).

In the end, you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man.

ElNono you are typical. You complete ignore the subject and start attempting to change the subject. If someone has something to say that is different or opposed to your opinion then they are some kind of "Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing". And your summary of someone who does oppose you: " you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man." is flat out wrong.

The subject of my post is "Political Correctness" which is not "correct" it is just political and a way to force people to conform to group think. If someone didn't like Obama then they became "racist" because Obama was black and could not be criticized. Never mind that he is much white as he is black. But no matter he appears black although under "todays" standards he had every advantage of "white privilege. And he also had the advantage of skin color which he exploited/exploits at every turn.

One other point. Your statement: "Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story." How do we know there is or isn't an audience for what those who weren't allowed to speak, because of the "group think" of a bunch of big mouth kids who obviously had no audience except themselves and their closed minds.

[DarrinS]

That's the problem. For what reason was the kid arrested other than having a "suspicious" clock.


You know who referred to that clock as "suspicious"? The "inventor" himself.

[apalisoc_9]

ElNono you are typical. You complete ignore the subject and start attempting to change the subject. If someone has something to say that is different or opposed to your opinion then they are some kind of "Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing". And your summary of someone who does oppose you: " you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man." is flat out wrong.

The subject of my post is "Political Correctness" which is not "correct" it is just political and a way to force people to conform to group think. If someone didn't like Obama then they became "racist" because Obama was black and could not be criticized. Never mind that he is much white as he is black. But no matter he appears black although under "todays" standards he had every advantage of "white privilege. And he also had the advantage of skin color which he exploited/exploits at every turn.

One other point. Your statement: "Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story." How do we know there is or isn't an audience for what those who weren't allowed to speak, because of the "group think" of a bunch of big mouth kids who obviously had no audience except themselves and their closed minds.

The problem with your thinking is that you think that making Generalizations on a particular set of people is a better way going forward than avoiding the matter..

The muzzies arent going to go away, they are only going to get bigger and to make a stance that may deeply ruin in an already ruined relationship with them might spell long term trouble. History tells us uncertainty can be a real bitch. You never know the landscape 40 years from now..

People are allowed to speak against Islam. Its pretty much the salt and pepper of todays western media so Ihave no idea why this thread even exist. Are you suggesting the Western rallies up and fight Islam all together? You're asking to allienate the moderates even more. Thats just going to generate more "terrorist". Humans in nature react when they're faced with these kind of treatment.

[apalisoc_9]

You know who referred to that clock as "suspicious"? The "inventor" himself.

Except that is in no way or form was his actual meaning towards the clock. Anyone with a brain of a pea would have known that but the obvious discrimination was on play here.

[Spurminator]

If someone didn't like Obama then they became "racist" because Obama was black and could not be criticized. Never mind that he is much white as he is black. But no matter he appears black although under "todays" standards he had every advantage of "white privilege. And he also had the advantage of skin color which he exploited/exploits at every turn.

:lol not a racist though.

[DarrinS]

Except that is in no way or form was his actual meaning towards the clock. Anyone with a brain of a pea would have known that but the obvious discrimination was on play here.


Anyone with a brain of a pea would have known that putting the guts of a clock in case, bringing it to school, and setting off the alarm in class was a bad idea.

[Chinook]

Except that is in no way or form was his actual meaning towards the clock. Anyone with a brain of a pea would have known that but the obvious discrimination was on play here.

That misses the point of why I brought it up. The issue with how PC has affected the clock-boy case isn't that it's not letting people justify discrimination. It's that it's masking the complex system of responsibility and blame in this case. Even if you don't believe the parts about the teachers telling him to put away his clock repeatedly and him bringing it anyway when it wasn't even part of a school project, there is simply no excuse for a Muslim kid to bring something to school that he knows looks suspicious. And there's no excuse for a black man to resist arrest giving the current political climate. It's not about thinking the police are justified in these cases; it's about being realistic.

Too many people are obsessed with what should be and not focused enough on what is. We live under the latter standard, and we have to keep that in mind as we try to move to the former.

[apalisoc_9]

That misses the point of why I brought it up. The issue with how PC has affected the clock-boy case isn't that it's not letting people justify discrimination. It's that it's masking the complex system of responsibility and blame in this case. Even if you don't believe the parts about the teachers telling him to put away his clock repeatedly and him bringing it anyway when it wasn't even part of a school project, there is simply no excuse for a Muslim kid to bring something to school that he knows looks suspicious. And there's no excuse for a black man to resist arrest giving the current political climate. It's not about thinking the police are justified in these cases; it's about being realistic.

Too many people are obsessed with what should be and not focused enough on what is. We live under the latter standard, and we have to keep that in mind as we try to move to the former.

Imo, that a still and backwater way tmof thinking. That's tge reason why there was on outcry, why we have silly movements like BLM. It's largely because we have "accepeted" as a black man or a muzzie yiu should be acting in a certain way to avoid suspicioin. That in itself is inherently discriminatory.

Was it stupid on his part..sure. Is it stupid on a black mand part to act like a white man in front of a police officer? Sure. But that's an issue that needs addresing. People are pissed because they know how that's wrong and fucked up that is.

What's right is to move forward and destroy these kind of mindsets

They didnt repeadtly tell him to do something specific about the clock. They just called the cops on him. Thats totally different. The repeated call was after the act of calling the cops.

[apalisoc_9]

Unless individuals are willing to change the these racially discriminatory standard, were always going tk be stuck with a racially discriminative standard.

So i find the outcries and even a majorly flawed movement like BLM as a step towards the right direction.

[Blake]

Anyone with a brain of a pea would have known that putting the guts of a clock in case, bringing it to school, and setting off the alarm in class was a bad idea.

Especially if you're Muslim amirite

[mingus]

The kid did nothing wrong but was arrested and left in handcuffs in front of the school.

If you're not going to blame prejudice, then what are you going to blame?

He was detained, as far as I know, and not arrested. You don't have to do anything wrong to be detained, you just have to appear, in the personal & discretionary judgement of the overseeing cop(s) to be suspicious. In order to legitimately accuse the cop(s) here of prejudice, you'd have to prove he/she/they wouldn't have followed the same protocol all things being equal if it was a non-ME kid bringing to school what the naked eye tells me looks like a bomb, or at least a bomb prop out of a movie. Otherwise your claim is utter bullshit. In light of all the school massacres, it's crazy to me how you can just gloss over the fact that he made & brought to school what many would associate with a bomb & and the repercussions that might have in this day and age.

[Blake]

there is simply no excuse for a Muslim kid to bring something to school that he knows looks suspicious.

At least you're forthright in being a bigoted asshole

[Blake]

He was detained, as far as I know, and not arrested.

He was arrested.

[mingus]

He was arrested.

Well, then that changes a lot. Do you have a link?

[Blake]

... if it was a non-ME kid bringing to school what the naked eye tells me looks like a bomb, or at least a bomb prop out of a movie. Otherwise your claim is utter bullshit.

Yeah I'm not sure he's gonna win his civil suit if it goes to trial. The district may want to settle any way and be done with it.

But cmon, we all know these people in Irving Texas are bible beating Islamophobes

It was a clock.

[Blake]

Well, then that changes a lot. Do you have a link?

Really? It's a pretty easy Google, but Ok, I'll be courteous this one time. Give me two seconds.

[Blake]

"CNN)When Ahmed Mohamed went to his high school in Irving, Texas, Monday, he was so excited. A teenager with dreams of becoming an engineer, he wanted to show his teacher the digital clock he'd made from a pencil case.

The 14-year-old's day ended not with praise, but punishment, after the school called police and he was arrested...."


http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock-bomb/

[apalisoc_9]

I also think tha putting kids in situations where they have to know..oh Ok i am black, i cant br wearing black hoodie situations or a Muzzie I cant be bringing a clock to school is incredibly racist and discriminatory.

The fact that someone like chinook acknwoledges this as a standard speaks volume of the current american society. Im actually legit interested to see how the 10 years old of today wouls grow up to be with these "standards"

[Blake]

No, it wasn't.

It absolutely is an irrelevant question. I'm not accusing the teachers of any illegal activity. Nobody is.



You don't have to do something illegal to get arrested. If that were the case, there'd be no need for trials.

So you're OK with people getting arrested for clock making and carrying.

That's ridiculous.




Yeah, because the kid was being an asshole by repeatedly plugging in his experiment despite repeated requests to stop doing it by teachers. But by all means, chalk it up to discrimination and prove my point.

Arrest him!

[DarrinS]

"CNN)When Ahmed Mohamed went to his high school in Irving, Texas, Monday, he was so excited. A teenager with dreams of becoming an engineer, he wanted to show his teacher the digital clock he'd made from a pencil case.

The 14-year-old's day ended not with praise, but punishment, after the school called police and he was arrested...."


http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock-bomb/



Meh, he didn't expect any teachers to be impressed with his little stunt. Teachers are impressed by a student actually making something -- not tearing something up and throwing it in a box.

[Avante]

Too many people are dead because of Islam/Muslims, and it's going to get worst.

What more is there to say?

[Pelicans78]

Too many people are dead because of Islam/Muslims, and it's going to get worst.

What more is there to say?

Lots of nationalists, religious groups, atheists, etc have killed millions of people.

[DarrinS]

Meh, he didn't expect any teachers to be impressed with his little stunt. Teachers are impressed by a student actually making something -- not tearing something up and throwing it in a box.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVLKDtmSqUM

[Chinook]

At least you're forthright in being a bigoted asshole

Can always count on you to come in and pseudo-intellectual up the joint.

[Chinook]

I also think tha putting kids in situations where they have to know..oh Ok i am black, i cant br wearing black hoodie situations or a Muzzie I cant be bringing a clock to school is incredibly racist and discriminatory.

None of that shit matters when a kid gets killed because he resisted arrest. His parents could have saved him had they taught him how to act to protect themselves, but no. They were too busy focusing on ideals. Guess what? Most bad things happen because the world isn't fair. A woman gets killed walking down the street alone in the dark. Should she have to be concerned someone is going to murder her? No. Should she have taken precautions anyway? Yes.

[spurraider21]

i agree with apa's point that it's inherently discriminatory (and wrong) for certain people to have to follow a different set of "rules" and "act certain ways" to avoid suspicion just because they are of a certain people... and we do need to continue to push for the elimination of that.

HOWEVER, in the meantime, that doesn't excuse people from being blind/numb to the situation. If you KNOW that the device looks suspicious and you have a good idea of what the response will be, you're a moron for bringing it in and acting the way you do, even if it's entirely legal. it's an asshole move. its the same bullshit with those open carry faggots who walk up and down the street with guns-a-blazin just HOPING some cop comes up to them and questions them, just so they can yammer on about their rights, citing supreme court cases that they full and well know the cops aren't familiar with

[apalisoc_9]

None of that shit matters when a kid gets killed because he resisted arrest. His parents could have saved him had they taught him how to act to protect themselves, but no. They were too busy focusing on ideals. Guess what? Most bad things happen because the world isn't fair. A woman gets killed walking down the street alone in the dark. Should she have to be concerned someone is going to murder her? No. Should she have taken precautions anyway? Yes.

Thats not what I am trying to argue for. I'm stating argunebts why i supported the outcry and why i support blm even though blm is flawed.

We're a smart species that deserve more than just conforming to silly standards. As stupid as these actions are, I do hope tge outcrys and movement and the PCs help eliminate such discriminatory standards.

[Blake]

Meh, he didn't expect any teachers to be impressed with his little stunt

Just part of the genius plan to destroy the school in civil court. .....Muslims are diabolical like that

[Blake]

i agree with apa's point that it's inherently discriminatory (and wrong) for certain people to have to follow a different set of "rules" and "act certain ways" to avoid suspicion just because they are of a certain people... and we do need to continue to push for the elimination of that.

HOWEVER, in the meantime, that doesn't excuse people from being blind/numb to the situation. If you KNOW that the device looks suspicious and you have a good idea of what the response will be, you're a moron for bringing it in and acting the way you do, even if it's entirely legal. it's an asshole move. its the same bullshit with those open carry faggots who walk up and down the street with guns-a-blazin just HOPING some cop comes up to them and questions them, just so they can yammer on about their rights, citing supreme court cases that they full and well know the cops aren't familiar with

It's more moronic for the cops to have arrested him.

[apalisoc_9]

i agree with apa's point that it's inherently discriminatory (and wrong) for certain people to have to follow a different set of "rules" and "act certain ways" to avoid suspicion just because they are of a certain people... and we do need to continue to push for the elimination of that.

HOWEVER, in the meantime, that doesn't excuse people from being blind/numb to the situation. If you KNOW that the device looks suspicious and you have a good idea of what the response will be, you're a moron for bringing it in and acting the way you do, even if it's entirely legal. it's an asshole move. its the same bullshit with those open carry faggots who walk up and down the street with guns-a-blazin just HOPING some cop comes up to them and questions them, just so they can yammer on about their rights, citing supreme court cases that they full and well know the cops aren't familiar with

I actually hope more people do "stupid" things as these usually resut in reactions that can have a lon term positive effect on our society.

I think most of us are decent human beings, but reactions generally serve as a good way to educate ignorant individulas.

[Chinook]

i agree with apa's point that it's inherently discriminatory (and wrong) for certain people to have to follow a different set of "rules" and "act certain ways" to avoid suspicion just because they are of a certain people... and we do need to continue to push for the elimination of that.

HOWEVER, in the meantime, that doesn't excuse people from being blind/numb to the situation. If you KNOW that the device looks suspicious and you have a good idea of what the response will be, you're a moron for bringing it in and acting the way you do, even if it's entirely legal. it's an asshole move. its the same bullshit with those open carry faggots who walk up and down the street with guns-a-blazin just HOPING some cop comes up to them and questions them, just so they can yammer on about their rights, citing supreme court cases that they full and well know the cops aren't familiar with

More importantly, not being allowed to have an honest conversation lets people game the system. In the very least, clock boy was stupid. If that other stuff was true about how he handled it during the incident and how his immediate family has a history of goading people into these types of reactions, then it needs to be explored. That's the kind of shit that sets people back and "justifies" a whole lot of bigotry. We did hear some reports that corroborate these allegations, but we didn't hear much from the mainstream media since it would have been met with a backlash to suggest that the kid was anything other than a budding genius oppressed by racist Texans.

[HarlemHeat37]

God, I don't miss living in America, tbh:lol

[apalisoc_9]

God, I don't miss living in America, tbh:lol

I dont doubt that canada would be the same a few years from now..if you ever been to country towns in sask, alberta, manitoba and NS..its no worse than florida or texas.

Im out here once that shit happens. Probably move to south America.

[HarlemHeat37]

I dont doubt that canada would be the same a few years from now..if you ever been to country towns in sask, alberta, manitoba and NS..its no worse than florida or texas.

Im out here once that shit happens. Probably move to south America.

I've never been to any of those places, nor would I ever go, tbh(Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver is my limit):lol..I would imagine it's probably similar to the American south, in terms of mentality towards non-Whites..

Everywhere I've ever lived has been multicultural..you still get treated questionably in certain situations if you're Black(I'm used to it by now, though), but Canada is nowhere near as bad as America, from my experience(and I lived in NY, which is much more tolerant than most other American states)..

[rmt]

NOW, we get to the issue here. Those "some people" you refer to can speak freely, but the fact that either there's no audience or that the audience disagree with the message is what really bothers you. Again, this is YOUR problem.

There's nothing stopping anybody from being xenophobes, Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing. Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story.

Generally speaking, we've largely moved on from those things culturally as a society for a while now, for a number of reasons (among them, logically speaking, there's a lot to lose for taking those positions, whereas there's nothing to lose by not adopting them).

In the end, you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man.

Maybe we haven't quite moved on:

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/30/majority-of-americans-now-support-trumps-proposed-muslim-ban-poll-shows/

Note that this is for ALL Americans and the independents are even higher - imagine the GOP.

[spurraider21]

God, I don't miss living in America, tbh:lol
america doesn't miss you, either

[spurraider21]

More importantly, not being allowed to have an honest conversation lets people game the system. In the very least, clock boy was stupid. If that other stuff was true about how he handled it during the incident and how his immediate family has a history of goading people into these types of reactions, then it needs to be explored. That's the kind of shit that sets people back and "justifies" a whole lot of bigotry. We did hear some reports that corroborate these allegations, but we didn't hear much from the mainstream media since it would have been met with a backlash to suggest that the kid was anything other than a budding genius oppressed by racist Texans.
sure, but if clock boy was white, would he have been arrested? there has to be an honest conversation about that, too

[clambake]

muslims are tight in the u.s. the idea that the non-violent muslims don't know who the bad ones are....thats nonsense.

[apalisoc_9]

I've never been to any of those places, nor would I ever go, tbh(Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver is my limit):lol..I would imagine it's probably similar to the American south, in terms of mentality towards non-Whites..

Everywhere I've ever lived has been multicultural..you still get treated questionably in certain situations if you're Black(I'm used to it by now, though), but Canada is nowhere near as bad as America, from my experience(and I lived in NY, which is much more tolerant than most other American states)..

Poor white trash in canada are still siginicantly more than other multicuural areas. It only takes a majority of their vote to overpower any "diversity" has to offer...the difference is that they are not as politically involved as their brothers in the south. The last PM was trump lite racist and he got tons of support from these people.

[Chinook]

sure, but if clock boy was white, would he have been arrested? there has to be an honest conversation about that, too

And if Michael Brown were white, would he still be alive today? Nobody has to wonder if we should ask those questions. But those aren't the only questions an intellectually virtuous society should investigate. Being PC is rarely completely wrong. Its issue is that it often lets people ignore the other, potentially bigger issues, not that it makes no sense to try to protect minorities.

[spurraider21]

And if Michael Brown were white, would he still be alive today? Nobody is wondering if we should ask those questions. But those aren't the questions an intellectually virtuous society should investigate. Being PC is rarely completely wrong. It's issue is that it often lets people ignore the other, potentially bigger issues, not that it makes no sense to try to protect minorities.
yes being "overly PC" gets us to overlook those questions, but the whole "pc is stupid and is ruining the country" nonsense lets people overlook the more obvious and pressing questions. the specific case of "was ahmed a stupid jackass" isn't nearly as relevant as the bigger picture of prejudice. both conversations need to be had, and people use PC or anti-PC to overlook one or the other

[SpursforSix]

sure, but if clock boy was white, would he have been arrested? there has to be an honest conversation about that, too

why would a white boy build a Muslim clock bomb?

[DarrinS]

sure, but if clock boy was white, would he have been arrested? there has to be an honest conversation about that, too

http://www.statesville.com/news/south-high-prank-goes-too-far-two-students-charged/article_0f6ed2cc-03b7-11e5-842a-eb1ee5793c6a.html?mode=jqm

[Chinook]

yes being "overly PC" gets us to overlook those questions, but the whole "pc is stupid and is ruining the country" nonsense lets people overlook the more obvious and pressing questions. the specific case of "was ahmed a stupid jackass" isn't nearly as relevant as the bigger picture of prejudice. both conversations need to be had, and people use PC or anti-PC to overlook one or the other

The difference is that one is already being had while the other isn't. And yes, if clock boy did that shit on purpose, it's absolutely a bigger issue than the general trends of prejudice. The "victims" of discrimination actively seeking it for money or controversy just create more resentment and erodes support.

[spurraider21]

http://www.statesville.com/news/south-high-prank-goes-too-far-two-students-charged/article_0f6ed2cc-03b7-11e5-842a-eb1ee5793c6a.html?mode=jqm
do you not recognize the difference between what they did and what ahmed did? seriously?

[apalisoc_9]

The bigger and more obvious isdue here is discrimination so making argumebts that minorities seek out these "attention" is reaching...incredibly presumptious too.

[spurraider21]

The difference is that one is already being had while the other isn't. And yes, if clock boy did that shit on purpose, it's absolutely a bigger issue than the general trends of prejudice. The "victims" of discrimination actively seeking it for money or controversy just creates more resentment and erodes support.
agreed

[DarrinS]

do you not recognize the difference between what they did and what ahmed did? seriously?

Sure I do.

Clock girls: They put theirs in lockers and padlocked them. Result --> arrested on felony charge

Clock boy: “I closed [the ‘clock’] with a cable, I didn’t want to lock it to make it seem like a threat … so it won’t look that much suspicious." Result --> arrest, charges dropped, celebrity

[spurraider21]

Sure I do.

Clock girls: They put theirs in lockers and padlocked them. Result --> arrested on felony charge

Clock boy: “I closed [the ‘clock’] with a cable, I didn’t want to lock it to make it seem like a threat … so it won’t look that much suspicious." Result --> arrest, charges dropped, celebrity
:lol "clock girls"... they actually intended to make people think there were bombs. the bomb sniffing dog was called, school evacuated, etc

[Pelicans78]

I've never been to any of those places, nor would I ever go, tbh(Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa and Vancouver is my limit):lol..I would imagine it's probably similar to the American south, in terms of mentality towards non-Whites..

Everywhere I've ever lived has been multicultural..you still get treated questionably in certain situations if you're Black(I'm used to it by now, though), but Canada is nowhere near as bad as America, from my experience(and I lived in NY, which is much more tolerant than most other American states)..

I lived in the South my whole life and I'm non-white and I haven't experienced any discrimination but dealt with way more assholes living in Queens and working in Brooklyn for a year from all kinds of ethnicities. Also witnessed segregated areas based on ethnicity in New York City which isn't common in suburban southern cities.

[Pelicans78]

muslims are tight in the u.s. the idea that the non-violent muslims don't know who the bad ones are....thats nonsense.

Bullshit. Muslims aren't as segregated in the U.S. as they are in other countries. Big cities have larger communities, but the majority of Muslims like other groups are spread out the entire country. Just another blanket statement by an inferior intelligence.

[DarrinS]

:lol "clock girls"... they actually intended to make people think there were bombs. the bomb sniffing dog was called, school evacuated, etc


He was smarter about it, but he wasn't trying to make anyone think he invented a clock. :lol

[Chinook]

I lived in the South my whole life and I'm non-white and I haven't experienced any discrimination but dealt with way more assholes living in Queens and working in Brooklyn for a year from all kinds of ethnicities. Also witnessed segregated areas based on ethnicity in New York City which isn't common in suburban southern cities.

Yeah, the northern states have a more subtle but also more deeply ingrained system of prejudice. When I was in high school, there really weren't any racial or ethnic divisions. But as soon as I got to Philly, I heard of ton of "stick with your own kind" talk. I think that the scrutiny that the South had to undergo and is still undergoing has led to better integration, whereas the North never had to have an intervention and thusly is slower to evolve its social norms.

[spurraider21]

He was smarter about it, but he wasn't trying to make anyone think he invented a clock. :lol
despite the fact that he kept saying the words "it's a clock"

unless ur just harping on the "invent" part of that, which yeah, he didnt invent anything

[mingus]

"CNN)When Ahmed Mohamed went to his high school in Irving, Texas, Monday, he was so excited. A teenager with dreams of becoming an engineer, he wanted to show his teacher the digital clock he'd made from a pencil case.

The 14-year-old's day ended not with praise, but punishment, after the school called police and he was arrested...."


http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/us/texas-student-ahmed-muslim-clock-bomb/

Detainment is one thing, arrest is another. In most all cases it's the difference between reasonable suspicion & probable cause. I've explained, there was a reasonable suspicion: kid brings bomb-looking device to school. Once those suspicions were laid to rest he should've been allowed to leave. Where it gets kind of tricky is there are a number of different steps (questioning of suspect, students, teachers, friends, family, bomb-sniffing dogs, school evac.) that authorities could've of taken, and taken reasonably, to eliminate him as a suspect, all/some of which could very plausibly take up a lot of time. I believe that after a certain period of time of being detained, you then become under arrested by formality and not because you're any more of a suspect. If he was arrested for the former, there's validity in his arrest.

Now as for exactly why he was arrested, I don't pretend to know. I don't at all deny Islamaphobia exists, or that it maybe been present here. It may well have. And/or it may well have been an excessive response based in paranoia from the relative high frequency of school massacres. Maybe it was just because of the long process of evidence gathering & clue searching. I don't know.

What I do know is it's not a good idea to bring to school anything that looks like a weapon.

[clambake]

Bullshit. Muslims aren't as segregated in the U.S. as they are in other countries. Big cities have larger communities, but the majority of Muslims like other groups are spread out the entire country. Just another blanket statement by an inferior intelligence.

i know they're not as segregated. yes, big cities have larger communities.


they know. there is no way they don't.

[Pelicans78]

i know they're not as segregated. yes, big cities have larger communities.


they know. there is no way they don't.

Are you saying that every non-violent Muslim in this country knows a violent Muslim?

[Blake]

Can always count on you to come in and pseudo-intellectual up the joint.

^ dripping in irony

[Chinook]

^ dripping in irony

Not at all, but again, psuedo-intellectual.

[Blake]

More importantly, not being allowed to have an honest conversation lets people game the system. In the very least, clock boy was stupid. If that other stuff was true about how he handled it during the incident and how his immediate family has a history of goading people into these types of reactions, then it needs to be explored. That's the kind of shit that sets people back and "justifies" a whole lot of bigotry. We did hear some reports that corroborate these allegations, but we didn't hear much from the mainstream media since it would have been met with a backlash to suggest that the kid was anything other than a budding genius oppressed by racist Texans.

Yes, blame the kid and his family for the arrest. Not the cops.

Because that's the highly intellectual thing to do.

[Blake]

Not at all, but again, psuedo-intellectual.

Whatever you say, pot.

You misspelled pseudo

[Blake]

kid brings bomb-looking device to school.

Yeah. ...

What made it look like a bomb?

[DarrinS]

Yeah. ...

What made it look like a bomb?

:lol

[SpursforSix]

Yeah. ...

What made it look like a bomb?

Didn't the kid himself say that he did things to it to make it less suspicious?
It's a briefcase with wires and electronics and shit. I would guess if you put that in front of a group of people and asked them if it's a bomb or a clock, they'd overwhelmingly pick bomb.

[Spurminator]

Clock boy thread!

[Spurminator]

Clock boy thread!

Begging the question, is PC really that much more annoying than the outrage against PC?

[DarrinS]

Begging the question, is PC really that much more annoying than the outrage against PC?


Not so much outrage against PC as it is laughing at the utter stupidity of PC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j556MWGVVqI

[Blake]

Didn't the kid himself say that he did things to it to make it less suspicious?
It's a briefcase with wires and electronics and shit. I would guess if you put that in front of a group of people and asked them if it's a bomb or a clock, they'd overwhelmingly pick bomb.

Do they all stick around to hear the correct answer?

[SpursforSix]

Do they all stick around to hear the correct answer?

once the threat has been neutralized, I guess it would be OK to tell them.

[Blake]

once the threat has been neutralized, I guess it would be OK to tell them.

If they think it's a bomb, they're still hanging around?

Americans are so stupid

[Chinook]

Yes, blame the kid and his family for the arrest. Not the cops.

That's the point I've been trying to make. People keep trying to dumb this down. Just because the cops were wrong (and indeed illegally interrogated him) doesn't mean the kid and his family are blameless. The idea that only one side can be blamed should have died in the 50s.

[Chinook]

Whatever you say, pot.

You misspelled pseudo

I did, after about 50 times of spelling it correctly. Guess I've been exposed.

[MultiTroll]

Are you saying that every non-violent Muslim in this country knows a violent Muslim?
Not every single one. For example some of the women are forced to wear hijabs 24/7 and are kept in the dark about almost everything.

But when Donny or Bernie and I come knocking on doors, those having info on those harboring are gonna talk.

[Chinook]

Begging the question, is PC really that much more annoying than the outrage against PC?

One is propagated by the majority, while the other is a minority response. I don't think they're near equal in magnitude.

[Blake]

Not every single one. For example some of the women are forced to wear hijabs 24/7 and are kept in the dark about almost everything.

But when Donny or Bernie and I come knocking on doors, those having info on those harboring are gonna talk.

Even if they don't, you'll violate their rights any way

[MultiTroll]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MultiTroll (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8526167#post8526167)

Little puss asses like Zuckerberg at Facebook and the Apple phaggot will cooperate or be jailed.



I read that in WW2 German voice
In 1934 Fabbs Mueller got a very bad vibe from a group forming in a German town. Fabbs got a group together to go and put the wood to these plotting terrorists and snuff out any future damage. Blake Goldberg heard about this and said "Oh no, we must protect the konstitushunal wrights of these innocent Nazis! I'm going to hire sthome lawyers and get restraining orders against the Fabbs Mob."

Sadly, Blake paid to have the small but growing Nazi group obtain restraining orders and protected the plotting group.

[Blake]

That's the point I've been trying to make. People keep trying to dumb this down. Just because the cops were wrong (and indeed illegally interrogated him) doesn't mean the kid and his family are blameless. The idea that only one side can be blamed should have died in the 50s.

Your pseudo intellectual point is stupid. There is only one side to blame for Ahmed getting arrested.

[Pelicans78]

Not every single one. For example some of the women are forced to wear hijabs 24/7 and are kept in the dark about almost everything.

But when Donny or Bernie and I come knocking on doors, those having info on those harboring are gonna talk.

You ain't gonna do crap. You're an insignificant slug who's not smart enough to make any kind of difference in this society. But at least you make a good internet troll.

[Spurminator]

One is propagated by the majority, while the other is a minority response. I don't think they're near equal in magnitude.

I'm not sure which one you're suggesting is the minority response.

[Quetzal-X]

Overall its great that racist christian xenos will only get older, more bitter and less relevant . Hopefully it contributes hastens their own demise tbqfh.


:jekka




:shootme




:hang




Its just so refreshing like sprawling Confederate Jasmine by the windowsill in the morning tbqmfh






:bobo

[Blake]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MultiTroll (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8526167#post8526167)



In 1934 Fabbs Mueller got a very bad vibe from a group forming in a German town. Fabbs got a group together to go and put the wood to these plotting terrorists and snuff out any future damage. Blake Goldberg heard about this and said "Oh no, we must protect the konstitushunal wrights of these innocent Nazis! I'm going to hire sthome lawyers and get restraining orders against the Fabbs Mob."

Sadly, Blake paid to have the small but growing Nazi group obtain restraining orders and protected the plotting group.

My favorite part is Blake Goldberg helping the Nazis.

Do they gas me afterwards?

[MultiTroll]

My favorite part is Blake Goldberg helping the Nazis.

Do they gas me afterwards?
No, they continue to use you all the way up to planning their escape to South America havens as the Allieds closed in.

[Blake]

I'm not sure which one you're suggesting is the minority response.

Cmon, it's clearly the pseudo intellectual one.

[clambake]

Are you saying that every non-violent Muslim in this country knows a violent Muslim?

of course not.

[Avante]

bombs
terror
suicide bombers
beheadings
stonings
infidels
72 virgins
jihad

pretty much says it all.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.


You are so full of shit. Not a single post from you in this thread condemning the attacks in Brussels, in fact you avoided the thread completely. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258589
Your sympathy for such a barbaric religion is disgusting.

[Pelicans78]

of course not.

So what % of non-violent Muslims do you believe knows a violent Muslim?

[DarrinS]

So what % of non-violent Muslims do you believe knows a violent Muslim?

I think he was being sarcastic, dude.

[Quetzal-X]

bombs
terror
suicide bombers
beheadings
stonings
infidels
72 virgins
jihad

pretty much says it all.


You christian fellationists occupy this country due to terrorism on such a grand scale , ONLY god can deal with you fuckers. And i really hope you become "christians" or already are. Bible god will fuck your eternal world up tbh, because
he fucking hates you and your christian baby fucking church leaders. I hope you are what you say Avante because you are headed to the cottonfield ho. God wants it that way.

[Avante]

You christian fellationists occupy this country due to terrorism on such a grand scale , ONLY god can deal with you fuckers. And i really hope you become "christians" or already are. Bible god will fuck your eternal world up tbh, because
he fucking hates you and your christian baby fucking church leaders. I hope you are what you say Avante because you are headed to the cottonfield ho. God wants it that way.

What do Christians have to do with this topic?

I do believe what my eyes tell me, yes, Islam is the pit bull of religions.

[Quetzal-X]

No, they continue to use you all the way up to planning their escape to South America havens as the Allieds closed in.


They got the hookup with the current pedofile fellator Pope fran.

[Quetzal-X]

What do Christians have to do with this topic?

I do believe what my eyes tell me, yes, Islam is the pit bull of religions.


If you are gonna cry about terrorist like the pussy you are, talk about how you got this country asshole. Terrorism. White Terrorism. White Christian Terrorism. You wetback motherfuckers are the terrorist of the earth, thats why Bible God will deal with you fuckers. No muslim ever slaughtered millions of my ancestors so you white christians and apologists can GFY okayy?!? Terrorists of the earth are christians.

[spurraider21]

is this booboo's alt?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

it may seem spiteful to you, but it's just description. no hate.

:lol I always do this or I cannot interpret that but you don't judge? Your ship is sinking, sir.

[ElNono]

ElNono you are typical. You complete ignore the subject and start attempting to change the subject. If someone has something to say that is different or opposed to your opinion then they are some kind of "Islamophobic, racists, make gross generalizations... nothing". And your summary of someone who does oppose you: " you either adapt to the times we're living, or you'll probably die a bitter man." is flat out wrong.

The subject of my post is "Political Correctness" which is not "correct" it is just political and a way to force people to conform to group think. If someone didn't like Obama then they became "racist" because Obama was black and could not be criticized. Never mind that he is much white as he is black. But no matter he appears black although under "todays" standards he had every advantage of "white privilege. And he also had the advantage of skin color which he exploited/exploits at every turn.

One other point. Your statement: "Whether there's an audience for that is a completely different story." How do we know there is or isn't an audience for what those who weren't allowed to speak, because of the "group think" of a bunch of big mouth kids who obviously had no audience except themselves and their closed minds.

I'm a typical what? I took on the subject head on, just my opinion... the one living in fantasy land where apparently Barry "can't be criticized" is you. A cursory search will give you a ton of criticism about his administration, policies and even personally. How many times he's been called a weak leader? Even his citizenship was doubted time and again.

So, it's ok to have a differing opinions, a lot of people have it, publish it, including you. This thread is here, none of your posts have been deleted or censored. Heck, there's plenty of racist, xenophobic or gross generalizations all the time around here. People speak out, even as absurd or ignorant a take it is.

And it's hilarious you bring up "group think", you're the prototypical old white conservative, with the entire collection of cliches... "the media is out to get us (except Fox, sometimes)", "why can't we go back to the sweet 60s", "government bad (but don't touch my medicare)", "PC is going to destroy this country", "this country is going to shit"... well, this country moved on from the 60s. There's internet, free porn, you can pretty much find one or more media outlets that will be music to your ears, there's gays and lesbian all around you, getting married and living happily or not (who cares?), and the country made it alright...

Frankly, what's puzzling to me is why you guys keep on voting up guys like Romney, Cruz, Trump... they tell you what you want to hear, but they're not bringing the old times back. At some point you gotta move on from nostalgia, tbh...

[Blake]

You are so full of shit. Not a single post from you in this thread condemning the attacks in Brussels, in fact you avoided the thread completely. http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258589
Your sympathy for such a barbaric religion is disgusting.


I condemn those attacks!

You good now?

[Blake]

All in all this thread has been pretty entertaining. :tu

[mingus]

Yeah. ...

What made it look like a bomb?

If you decided to make an amateur film and needed a bomb prop, would Ahmed's device have sufficed?

[TheSanityAnnex]

I condemn those attacks!

You good now?

You completely avoided that thread and then expect people to believe this bullshit claim? :lol
I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.

During the duration of the Brussels thread care to guess how many threads you started criticizing Christians without once criticizing the followers of Islam for said attack?

[mingus]

If you are gonna cry about terrorist like the pussy you are, talk about how you got this country asshole. Terrorism. White Terrorism. White Christian Terrorism. You wetback motherfuckers are the terrorist of the earth, thats why Bible God will deal with you fuckers. No muslim ever slaughtered millions of my ancestors so you white christians and apologists can GFY okayy?!? Terrorists of the earth are christians.

It's good you brought this up.

I don't disagree with your claims.

You wanna know why, or at least one of the reasons, it happened tho?

Because it wasn't until AFTER the fact that these White terrorists killed, raped, stole and revealed their true intentions, that the Natives tried to put up any meaningful fight, at which point it was too late. Their naïveté and blind trust bit them and their rightfully bitter descendants in the ass.

[Axl Rose]

http://s28.postimg.org/pd0s95dst/image.jpg
:lol what an Islamophobe.

[Avante]

How many Islamic terrorist groups are out there anyway?

[Blake]

You completely avoided that thread and then expect people to believe this bullshit claim? :lol

During the duration of the Brussels thread care to guess how many threads you started criticizing Christians without once criticizing the followers of Islam for said attack?[/COLOR]

Honestly, I don't give a shit what you believe about me. You're kind of an idiot.

If all religion were to disappear, it would be a very good thing. Christians are ridiculous hypocrites that believe in a book with as much violence as the Quran.

[spurraider21]

I'm a typical what? I took on the subject head on, just my opinion... the one living in fantasy land where apparently Barry "can't be criticized" is you. A cursory search will give you a ton of criticism about his administration, policies and even personally. How many times he's been called a weak leader? Even his citizenship was doubted time and again.

So, it's ok to have a differing opinions, a lot of people have it, publish it, including you. This thread is here, none of your posts have been deleted or censored. Heck, there's plenty of racist, xenophobic or gross generalizations all the time around here. People speak out, even as absurd or ignorant a take it is.

And it's hilarious you bring up "group think", you're the prototypical old white conservative, with the entire collection of cliches... "the media is out to get us (except Fox, sometimes)", "why can't we go back to the sweet 60s", "government bad (but don't touch my medicare)", "PC is going to destroy this country", "this country is going to shit"... well, this country moved on from the 60s. There's internet, free porn, you can pretty much find one or more media outlets that will be music to your ears, there's gays and lesbian all around you, getting married and living happily or not (who cares?), and the country made it alright...

Frankly, what's puzzling to me is why you guys keep on voting up guys like Romney, Cruz, Trump... they tell you what you want to hear, but they're not bringing the old times back. At some point you gotta move on from nostalgia, tbh...
translation:

https://49.media.tumblr.com/6467946c0827f32bc080d426869cd3d8/tumblr_nxx7hepngw1rcv726o1_400.gif

[apalisoc_9]

I still havent gotten a reply k why chinook thinks the clock kid bringing a clock is a social response to majority discrimination. Thats one of the most hilariously racist statement Ive seen in quite a while.

[Trill Clinton]

I'm a typical what? I took on the subject head on, just my opinion... the one living in fantasy land where apparently Barry "can't be criticized" is you. A cursory search will give you a ton of criticism about his administration, policies and even personally. How many times he's been called a weak leader? Even his citizenship was doubted time and again.

So, it's ok to have a differing opinions, a lot of people have it, publish it, including you. This thread is here, none of your posts have been deleted or censored. Heck, there's plenty of racist, xenophobic or gross generalizations all the time around here. People speak out, even as absurd or ignorant a take it is.

And it's hilarious you bring up "group think", you're the prototypical old white conservative, with the entire collection of cliches... "the media is out to get us (except Fox, sometimes)", "why can't we go back to the sweet 60s", "government bad (but don't touch my medicare)", "PC is going to destroy this country", "this country is going to shit"... well, this country moved on from the 60s. There's internet, free porn, you can pretty much find one or more media outlets that will be music to your ears, there's gays and lesbian all around you, getting married and living happily or not (who cares?), and the country made it alright...

Frankly, what's puzzling to me is why you guys keep on voting up guys like Romney, Cruz, Trump... they tell you what you want to hear, but they're not bringing the old times back. At some point you gotta move on from nostalgia, tbh...

powerful post

[TheSanityAnnex]

Honestly, I don't give a shit what you believe about me. You're kind of an idiot.

If all religion were to disappear, it would be a very good thing. Christians are ridiculous hypocrites that believe in a book with as much violence as the Quran.

:lol at you calling anyone a hypocrite after...
I'll criticize all religions when their followers do and say horrible things.

This isn't about what I believe it's about what you've shown yourself to be with a posting history to support it. You can't argue it and you won't even try. You own it.

To your second point I agree, I think we'd be a lot better off without religion. But are Christians following, preaching, and carrying out the violent verses in the Old Testament? Are Christians carrying out suicide bombings on a weekly basis in the name of Christ?

Your constant attacks on Christianity while ignoring the barbaric facets of Islam are pathetic. Keep on telling yourself you criticize followers of all religions when they do or say horrible things, no one else is buying your shit.

[Blake]

Keep on telling yourself you criticize followers of all religions when they do or say horrible things, no one else is buying your shit. [/COLOR]

Is "bombing in the name of Allah is bad" something that really needs to be said? I thought we were all of a decent enough intelligence level to know it's understood it's something we all agree on.

The types of threads I post are usually based on American politics, society and education. Things that directly affect us here.

We've got a shit load of nut job Christians that are in high positions of influence and power that implement backwards laws that holds our society back.

I'd much rather discuss that than to discuss overseas Muslim extremist terrorist activity that we all agree is horrendous but that neither you nor I have direct input on solving.

But sgain, I really don't give a shit about you and you can take the above post any way you want. I'm here for my own entertainment and edification.

[HI-FI]

http://s28.postimg.org/pd0s95dst/image.jpg

:lol
sounds like the liberal shills

[MultiTroll]

So what % of non-violent Muslims do you believe knows a violent Muslim?
50%
But we have to define what "knows" means.
"Knows" does not mean approves of or condones in any way. A lot of Muslims living in the US really like it here. They may have gotten good jobs, are eating well, like the educational system and some even root for the Spurs. They would say any with terrorist ideas are nutts to try to do damage.

Back to who do they know. I'll bet they can with very reasonable accuracy say which have UnIslamic violent tendencies.

[Blake]

50%
But we have to define what "knows" means.
"Knows" does not mean approves of or condones in any way. A lot of Muslims living in the US really like it here. They may have gotten good jobs, are eating well, like the educational system and some even root for the Spurs. They would say any with terrorist ideas are nutts to try to do damage.

Back to who do they know. I'll bet they can with very reasonable accuracy say which have UnIslamic violent tendencies.

And you'll waterboard the info out of them if you have to

[Chinook]

I still havent gotten a reply k why chinook thinks the clock kid bringing a clock is a social response to majority discrimination. Thats one of the most hilariously racist statement Ive seen in quite a while.

There's nothing racist about that statement. More importantly, I didn't make it.

[Chinook]

I'm not sure which one you're suggesting is the minority response.

There are more pro-PC people than anti-PC. If there weren't, being PC wouldn't be an issue.

[Chinook]

Your pseudo intellectual point is stupid. There is only one side to blame for Ahmed getting arrested.

And only one side for Michael Brown being killed? Must be nice living in a world where everything is cut and tried and the villains wear black hats so we can all see who they are.

[Chinook]

I'm a typical what? I took on the subject head on, just my opinion... the one living in fantasy land where apparently Barry "can't be criticized" is you. A cursory search will give you a ton of criticism about his administration, policies and even personally. How many times he's been called a weak leader? Even his citizenship was doubted time and again.

So, it's ok to have a differing opinions, a lot of people have it, publish it, including you. This thread is here, none of your posts have been deleted or censored. Heck, there's plenty of racist, xenophobic or gross generalizations all the time around here. People speak out, even as absurd or ignorant a take it is.

And it's hilarious you bring up "group think", you're the prototypical old white conservative, with the entire collection of cliches... "the media is out to get us (except Fox, sometimes)", "why can't we go back to the sweet 60s", "government bad (but don't touch my medicare)", "PC is going to destroy this country", "this country is going to shit"... well, this country moved on from the 60s. There's internet, free porn, you can pretty much find one or more media outlets that will be music to your ears, there's gays and lesbian all around you, getting married and living happily or not (who cares?), and the country made it alright...

Frankly, what's puzzling to me is why you guys keep on voting up guys like Romney, Cruz, Trump... they tell you what you want to hear, but they're not bringing the old times back. At some point you gotta move on from nostalgia, tbh...

I agree with the idea that the country is adapting and all that. But the country adapts because of the people in it. So those resisting the flow aren't just obstructing. They are trying to change the flow itself.

I think it misses the point to say, "You can say anything you want ... as long as you're willing to deal with the consequences." We know that. The problem isn't that the government is forcing people to be PC. It's that our culture is doing so, and the only way to fight it is to speak out. Is PC all bad? No. But there are cases where it limits the free transmission of information. We've seen this with clock boy, Trayvon and Brown recently where there are two different sides to the story depending on what news source you go to. That really just shouldn't be the case, especially not about potential facts or context.

Like did clock kid just keep plugging in his project despite being told by a string of teachers to stop doing so? Some sources suggest that, but the main ones don't. Are those other sources just making it up, or at the main-stream outlets just unwilling to say anything that could be construed as "victim-blaming"? We don't know, and that is a tangible issue with our nation's epistemological trajectory. We live in a nation that's too integrated and has information too easily available for us to be this ignorant of information outside of our viewpoints.

And as I've said, being PC about not "blaming victims" prevents people from giving practical advice on how to keep yourself safe in an unfair world. Too many people focused on their dreams and not enough focused on their lives.

[boutons_deux]

Lots of HATE from you white men

The dark side of Guardian comments

As part of a series on the rising global phenomenon of online harassment, the Guardian commissioned research into the 70m comments left on its site since 2006 and discovered that of the 10 most abused writers eight are women, and the two men are black.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/12/the-dark-side-of-guardian-comments?CMP=share_btn_tw&ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

[Blake]

And only one side for Michael Brown being killed? Must be nice living in a world where everything is cut and tried and the villains wear black hats so we can all see who they are.

Wtf Michael Brown?

Ahmed brought a clock to school. Showed his clock to his teacher. Got arrested.

Michael Brown broke the law and resisted arrest.

You're an idiot.

[Chinook]

Wtf Michael Brown?

Ahmed brought a clock to school. Showed his clock to his teacher. Got arrested.

And released with no charges.


Michael Brown broke the law and resisted arrest.

And was killed.


You're an idiot.

You're the one who seems unable to understand a three-dimensional situation.

[MultiTroll]

And you'll waterboard the info out of them if you have to
Dutch oven.

[xrayzebra]

Good Morning. I hope those of you who live in the San Antonio area didn't suffer any loss in last nights storm. It was a doozie.
Missed my house.

[MultiTroll]

Now here is some irresponsible journalism.

Belgium releases Paris attacks suspects without charge

Three people arrested in Brussels in connection with the November Paris attacks have been released without charge, Belgian prosecutors said on Wednesday."Within the case opened in the wake of the Paris attacks of November 13th 2015, the three persons that were arrested for questioning yesterday... have been released by the investigating judge," said Eric Van der Sypt, a spokesman for Belgium's federal prosecutors.
"They have not been charged," he added.
On Tuesday, Belgian police arrested the three people in the Brussels district of Uccle during a raid linked to the investigation into the Paris attacks, which left 130 people dead and hundreds wounded.>

The inference is that they had good reason to hold them and just let them go. Should have given more info.
Were they wrongly i.d.'d?
Did Blake and FromWayDowtown pay for their release and/or get them off on some technicality?
What happened. Article leaves it hanging.

[Spurminator]

There are more pro-PC people than anti-PC. If there weren't, being PC wouldn't be an issue.

Unless you live in urban Portland or spend a lot of time on Tumblr, I'm not sure how you could say this is the case.

Don't you think if the majority of people were against the Redskins or Indians names, those would have been changed by now?

Was the Gap ad in the news cycle before Gap apologized, or after they apologized?

Is it news when a kid prays at school, or is it news when a kid is sent home for praying at school?

The vocally PC people are certainly loud, but the vocally anti-PC people outnumber them, and that's why the media looks to them to drive ratings and readership. And they rely on that audience thinking that somehow they're the oppressed minority, which is frankly ridiculous.

[Chinook]

Unless you live in urban Portland

I do live in Austin Proper, so it could distort my view.


Don't you think if the majority of people were against the Redskins or Indians names, those would have been changed by now?

No. Those are private businesses, and their names aren't subject to a public vote. I'm pretty sure if you did a poll, most people would be against it.


Was the Gap ad in the news cycle before Gap apologized, or after they apologized?

No idea. I saw it after, but I'm not a great person to ask about fashion or business news.


Is it news when a kid prays at school, or is it news when a kid is sent home for praying at school?

Are kids sent home for praying in school? Is that not allowed anymore?


The vocally PC people are certainly loud, but the vocally anti-PC people outnumber them, and that's why the media looks to them to drive ratings and readership.

Yeah, that's not true at all. Simply put, being PC has its power in siding with the majority. Now, I agree that not everyone who is PC is militant about it. But the fact remains that PC is dominating the public discussion much more than anti-PC is. This is why Trump's anti-PC tactics are creating a groundswell of new support rather than just consolidating the old.


And they rely on that audience thinking that somehow they're the oppressed minority, which is frankly ridiculous.

Really don't get the point of your contention. You're claiming that the media catering to anti-PC folks (which isn't true on the whole) proves that they are the majority, even though the coverage is aimed at making it seem like they are the minority?

[Blake]

If you decided to make an amateur film and needed a bomb prop, would Ahmed's device have sufficed?

I put cops at a higher standard for recognizing a bomb vs a clock than that.

[Blake]

Now here is some irresponsible journalism.

Belgium releases Paris attacks suspects without charge

Three people arrested in Brussels in connection with the November Paris attacks have been released without charge, Belgian prosecutors said on Wednesday."Within the case opened in the wake of the Paris attacks of November 13th 2015, the three persons that were arrested for questioning yesterday... have been released by the investigating judge," said Eric Van der Sypt, a spokesman for Belgium's federal prosecutors.
"They have not been charged," he added.
On Tuesday, Belgian police arrested the three people in the Brussels district of Uccle during a raid linked to the investigation into the Paris attacks, which left 130 people dead and hundreds wounded.>

The inference is that they had good reason to hold them and just let them go. Should have given more info.
Were they wrongly i.d.'d?
Did Blake and FromWayDowtown pay for their release and/or get them off on some technicality?
What happened. Article leaves it hanging.

How long do you want to hold them for without any evidence of wrong doing?

[Blake]

And released with no charges.



And was killed.



You're the one who seems unable to understand a three-dimensional situation.

Michael Brown was wrong, the cop wasn't in that case.

Armed did nothing wrong, the cops and the school district were wrong by going overboard and having him arrested.

You're trying to compare these two instances. There's nothing to compare.

You're playing a pseudo intellectual card here, pot.

[MultiTroll]

How long do you want to hold them for without any evidence of wrong doing?
You assume. How do you know there was not any evidence?
And maybe there was not. I do not assume either way. Point being...
If the article would simply have added "there was not any evidence so they were let go" okay.
But it just states they were arrested and let go.

[Blake]

Like did clock kid just keep plugging in his project despite being told by a string of teachers to stop doing so? Some sources suggest that, but the main ones don't.

He won't stop plugging in the clock! Arrest him!

[Blake]

You assume. How do you know there was not any evidence?
And maybe there was not. I do not assume either way. Point being...
If the article would simply have added "there was not any evidence so they were let go" okay.
But it just states they were arrested and let go.


If they have evidence, they press charges. If they don't, they let them go free.

It's pretty simple.

[Chinook]

Michael Brown was wrong, the cop wasn't in that case.

Armed did nothing wrong, the cops and the school district were wrong by going overboard and having him arrested.

I think killing someone who's resisting arrest when you were supposed to have backup with you was going pretty overboard and definitely seems to be considered quite wrong by many people.

Arresting a kid and releasing him after he brought a non-sanctioned item to school and kept plugging it up despite being told repeatedly not to and then clamming up when the police and administrators were questioning him ("It's a clock", is an asshole, unhelpful answer, even if it's factual) definitely wasn't handled the right way, but on its face, it wasn't illegal. The interrogation was illegal, and I have never defended it.


You're trying to compare these two instances. There's nothing to compare.

There's a ton to compare, mainly what I was talking about -- the division in the factual evidence presented by the media. But it's not surprising to see that nuance miss you, as you're constantly trying to argue that world is flat.

[Chinook]

He won't stop plugging in the clock! Arrest him!

He won't let me arrest him. Kill him!

Can't seem to get enough of the skin-deep reasoning.

[Blake]

I think killing someone who's resisting arrest when you were supposed to have backup with you was going pretty overboard and definitely seems to be considered quite wrong by many people.


It wasn't considered wrong or overboard by the department of justice and I see no reason to disagree with their assessment. Are you saying otherwise? Be clear about your own opinion. Don't hang it on some vague "many people" assertion.

The DOJ is still assessing the situation in Irving.

There's no comparison here. But keep trying, pot.