IMO Simmons> Kmart [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

$pursDynasty

04-12-2016, 11:11 PM

Not a player fan, but I am failing to see any value in Kmart. I am pissed to have even sweated signing him, because I think Butler would be more useful. He has hit a couple of threes and has drawn a few fouls but his defense is abysmal, and he hasn't really made his own shot. Simmons despite inexperience brings athleticism and slashing to the basketball on offense, and effort and athleticism on defense. The more I see Martin the less I like, and I can't imagine Pop feels differently.

TheGreatYacht

04-12-2016, 11:12 PM

Both > Fat head

spursistan

04-12-2016, 11:13 PM

honestly starting to think he should be active over K-mart..

coachmac87

04-12-2016, 11:13 PM

Agreed on Simmons over Kmart...

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Simmons over Anderson tbh..Spurs are desperate for somebody attacking the paint right now.

Spurs9

04-12-2016, 11:14 PM

I think Simmons should shoot it more. Hes leaps and bounds better than Martin right now.

skulls138

04-12-2016, 11:14 PM

Im game. Simmons has earned it and is more productive honestly.

GSH

04-12-2016, 11:14 PM

Like several other Spurs players right now. He's okay... except when he sucks.

MultiTroll

04-12-2016, 11:15 PM

water is wet

objective

04-12-2016, 11:21 PM

100% agree. Martin is garbage, but worse, he's the type of veteran garbage that Pop will die with rather than give a better, younger player the chance.

Keepin' it real

04-12-2016, 11:22 PM

CWebb seems to think Kmart will be a factor for the Spurs in the playoffs. He's made no such declarations about Simmons.

JR3

04-12-2016, 11:25 PM

Agreed

coachmac87

04-12-2016, 11:32 PM

CWebb seems to think Kmart will be a factor for the Spurs in the playoffs. He's made no such declarations about Simmons.

C-Webb also thought Nazr Mohammed was playing tonight...just sayin lol

MaNu4Tres

04-13-2016, 12:17 AM

Been saying it all year.

He's trash

Simmons > Martin

bigfan

04-13-2016, 10:20 AM

How long are we stuck with this guy? He sucketh greatly.

Fireball

04-13-2016, 10:37 AM

What bothers me is how often KMart fumbles the ball ... worse than Jeff Ayres IMO

MultiTroll

04-13-2016, 10:50 AM

How long are we stuck with this guy? He sucketh greatly.
This season, that's it.
Is there some NBA Players Association agreement that he has to be on the playoff roster?

A true f up by PATFO.

NameLess Scrub

04-13-2016, 10:51 AM

If Simmons could handle the ball better maybe he'd replace K-Mart easily.

BillMc

04-13-2016, 10:54 AM

Agree with OP. Wish we'd kept Butler.

Kawhitstorm

04-13-2016, 10:55 AM

K-Mart is 2012-13 Gary Neal status

SpursforSix

04-13-2016, 10:58 AM

Agree with OP. Wish we'd kept Butler.

well that was more of a decision between Butler and Bonner. But yeah...Butler > Martin > Bonner. Although I did like the Martin pickup.

$pursDynasty

04-13-2016, 11:05 AM

K-Mart is 2012-13 Gary Neal status
K-Mart wishes he had balls as big as NEAL WITH IT. I can't ever recall seeing K-Mart go nova like I have seen Gary go multiple times. I just remember K-Mart being the failed J. Harden replacement in OKC.

BillMc

04-13-2016, 11:06 AM

K-Mart is 2012-13 Gary Neal status

Can K-mart guard a man with only one shoe?

elemento

04-13-2016, 11:07 AM

K-Mart is the anti-Bonner.

I watch him, he looks ok, then you take a look at the box score and he is -10.

Kawhitstorm

04-13-2016, 11:12 AM

K-Mart wishes he had balls as big as NEAL WITH IT. I can't ever recall seeing K-Mart go nova like I have seen Gary go multiple times. I just remember K-Mart being the failed J. Harden replacement in OKC.

Other than Gm 3 of the 2013 Finals Gary Neal was trash that season.

Poolboy5623

04-13-2016, 11:18 AM

Simmons is too reckless for pop.

$pursDynasty

04-13-2016, 11:35 AM

Poolboy, ok I can take that as an argument, but what is K-Mart besides a veteran? I mean a detriment on D and no great shakes on O. At this point I would prefer seeing Andre Miller to Martin. Maybe Pop does too and that is why we never saw Miller (and very little Simmons) against the Dubs.

Ditty

04-13-2016, 11:40 AM

Meh..both bring something to the table that other doesn't. Kevin Martin ball watches too much off the ball, he needs to pay attention to his man that he is guarding, and he can get a little too cute when trying to pick up fouls are my only problems with him. Like his three point shooting though I'm more confident with him shooting 3's than guys who have been with us for quite sometime at this point. Simmons defense has improved, but relies a lot on his athleticism. Not a great shooter, but like his slashing ability at least. Both could be fine in certain matchups.

cjw

04-13-2016, 12:07 PM

Simmons is too reckless for pop.

So are KM's closeouts on shooters. Yes, Simmons has issues with pick and roll defense and Green (elite otherwise) has his brainfart moments. Manu gambles, but is still more than competent. Parker tries and Mills draws fouls when he's not getting torched. Still all far better than KM.

SAGirl

04-13-2016, 01:01 PM

If Simmons could handle the ball better maybe he'd replace K-Mart easily.
That's really all it boils down to.
Personally I like Simmons better. He just turned out to be too unreliable and mistake prone (reverting to dleague level during the rodeo road trip--ppl have a short memory here and forget that) so Pop pulled him back to allow him to work on his game and get better.

Unfortunately Kmart is not much better and neither guy is good defensively either.

The only thing Kmart has over him is that he's not afraid to shoot the 3, Simmons still passed up too many perimeter shots to dribble into TO, but that's really all he brings. You give up so much subbing him for other guys that as we have seen we haven't been winning games in which Kmart plays a lot of minutes.

SAGirl

04-13-2016, 01:04 PM

K-Mart is the anti-Bonner.

I watch him, he looks ok, then you take a look at the box score and he is -10.
:lol
:toast true.

coachmac87

04-13-2016, 01:45 PM

Tbh K-Mart has been put into a tough spot. Joined team during that tough 5 game stretch. Not only is it hard to join a great team but especially during toughest stretch of season. He's has his moments good and bad and his minutes have been very inconsistent but if I had to give him a grade it'd be a C+.

bigfan

04-13-2016, 01:53 PM

He hasn't had it near as rough as Simmons and at least Simmons brings some fire. I understand being brought in mid season sucks but that's why he makes big bucks. I hope we keep Simmons regardless but as for Martin, well, he can go the way of KMart after the season.

Proxy

04-13-2016, 01:54 PM

I like Simmons more, but if I'm playing it safe I'll put Martin in. He's played on teams where he was the go to scorer and shit. If Simmons is playing in the playoffs as a rookie, I'm thinking it's a desperation move by Pop, inserting him when everyone else is playing like shit and the team is looking for a spark.

Mel_13

04-13-2016, 02:08 PM

They're both behind KA for minutes as the 4th wing in the rotation. The 5th wing won't play outside of garbage time.

hater

04-13-2016, 02:11 PM

And Belinelli >>>>>>>> both of them scrubs

urunobili

04-13-2016, 02:13 PM

Agreed

steeledl

04-13-2016, 02:14 PM

They're both behind KA for minutes as the 4th wing in the rotation. The 5th wing won't play outside of garbage time.

Honestly I hate this.... On a team without a lot of athleticism or shooting he doesn't really bring anything to the table for us. Just another slow player who can't shoot or create. He doesn't have the ups and downs that Kmart and Simmons have but he is just meh.

Mel_13

04-13-2016, 02:18 PM

Honestly I hate this.... On a team without a lot of athleticism or shooting he doesn't really bring anything to the table for us. Just another slow player who can't shoot or create. He doesn't have the ups and downs that Kmart and Simmons have but he is just meh.

Despite KA's limitations, neither Simmons or Martin showed enough to supplant him the rotation.

steeledl

04-13-2016, 02:22 PM

Despite KA's limitations, neither Simmons or Martin showed enough to supplant him the rotation.

Perhaps... But against golden state I'd rather just shorten the rotation and play Simmons or Kmart a few minutes to see if they have a spark and if not just pull him. Playing Anderson seems like a safe way to lose closer games.

Mel_13

04-13-2016, 02:27 PM

Perhaps... But against golden state I'd rather just shorten the rotation and play Simmons or Kmart a few minutes to see if they have a spark and if not just pull him. Playing Anderson seems like a safe way to lose closer games.

Shortening the rotation to three wings at key points in the playoffs is a time-tested Pop tactic.

SAGirl

04-13-2016, 02:32 PM

Anderson does bring things to the team we need since rebounding is a big problem for our bench bigs, as is defense. You can't finish defensive possessions if you don't secure the rebound. Despite him not being much of a weapon offensively this season, they go to shit collectively when you sub him out for any of the other two. Basically the main reason that neither guy has made him irrelevant.

And the other two got chances, A LOT of chances, A LOT of extended minutes, and they were not better. Again Kmart the better shooter if the 3, but that's it, worse in every possible way. Simmons more athletic but not better defensively and too risky to play.

I still like Simmons>Kmart though, but they are not better than Anderson, who is getting minutes as a forward too anyways, which the other two are incapable of.

Mel_13

04-13-2016, 02:39 PM

SAGirl

04-13-2016, 03:00 PM

I appreciate your enthusiasm for KA, but it's really not necessary to make the case for him anytime that anyone says a discouraging word.

There was a season-long competition for minutes as the 4th wing. KA won that competition fair and square.

Lol I didn't mention him initially since the thread was Simmons vs Kmart, but honestly it does irritate me that KA is brought into discussions like this as if he doesn't bring anything, when we have won so many games he's helped us in and none of the other two guys can provide what he does. Legitimately, you could say it's a trade off as each player is different with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could even make the argument situationally one guy could be better than another, but to flat out say KA doesn't bring anything is disingenuous and does irritate me.

I do see rotations shortened in the playoffs. I also still think Kmart might have a role bc our shooting woes unfortunately go beyond KA. But I don't see too much for Kmart anyways bc the trade off for anone else he could sub in for is huge. I see him maybe for Danny when you can spare him or Danny is having a terrible game.

I am rooting for Simmons myself too, let that be clear.:flag:

Spurtacular

04-13-2016, 04:14 PM

K-Mart is 2012-13 Gary Neal status

Not really. 12-13 Spurs heavily depended on Neal.

Kawhitstorm

04-13-2016, 04:44 PM

Not really. 12-13 Spurs heavily depended on Neal.

That isn't the point, he was ABSOLUTE shyt that season.:lol
-He had a NEGATIVE VORP (dead last on the team) :lmao
-The WORST DPBM :lmao
-The WORST WS/48 among rotation players by a MILE:lmao
Spurs HEAVILY depended on Porker in last season's playoffs but that doesn't mean he played well.:wakeup

littlecoyotecoin

04-13-2016, 05:20 PM

Agree with OP. Wish we'd kept Butler.

Love ya, Bill, but do we need better defense? Especially from an end of the bench guy? Our defense is solid. What looks anemic, and has all year, is the offense. Whatever longshot Kmart may be to provide an offensive spark, as well as Simmons, similarly, I fully give the nod to both over Butler, who was good, here, especially defensively, but he was limited on offense. Didn't like losing him, but our offense is freakin' broken. Hopefully it's ropeadope, and Pop, and flip a switch time as those optimistic of us suggest, but I see a whole lot ailing the offense that worries me. Kmart and Simmons may fail to cure it, but they have greater than Butler's 0% chance of doing so, IMHO.

Spurtacular

04-13-2016, 06:06 PM

That isn't the point, he was ABSOLUTE shyt that season.:lol
-He had a NEGATIVE VORP (dead last on the team) :lmao
-The WORST DPBM :lmao
-The WORST WS/48 among rotation players by a MILE:lmao
Spurs HEAVILY depended on Porker in last season's playoffs but that doesn't mean he played well.:wakeup

Neal: 21.8 mpg, 9.5 ppg .487 eFG
Martin: 15.8 mpg, 6.1 ppg .441 eFG (Deeper in rotation, frequent DNPs)

bigfan

04-13-2016, 06:08 PM

And Belinelli >>>>>>>> both of them scrubs

Never understood the hate for that guy on this board.

tholdren

04-13-2016, 07:25 PM

I don't think so - but I do think the general premise is correct: Spurs need a slasher.

Kevin has to be aggressive and draw the fouls. He's been hesitant. Simmons is biggest asset is his biggest weakness - his energy. His skills are mediocre. Would rather have him instead of kyle anderson. Would rather have jimmer tbh

steeledl

04-13-2016, 07:37 PM

Lol I didn't mention him initially since the thread was Simmons vs Kmart, but honestly it does irritate me that KA is brought into discussions like this as if he doesn't bring anything, when we have won so many games he's helped us in and none of the other two guys can provide what he does. Legitimately, you could say it's a trade off as each player is different with different strengths and weaknesses.

You could even make the argument situationally one guy could be better than another, but to flat out say KA doesn't bring anything is disingenuous and does irritate me.

I do see rotations shortened in the playoffs. I also still think Kmart might have a role bc our shooting woes unfortunately go beyond KA. But I don't see too much for Kmart anyways bc the trade off for anone else he could sub in for is huge. I see him maybe for Danny when you can spare him or Danny is having a terrible game.

I am rooting for Simmons myself too, let that be clear.:flag:

really wasn't being disingenuous. That's my honest opinion. I'm not saying he can't contribute in the future but with the way the Spurs team is currently constructed he doesn't really add much for a 10th or 11th man. We can agree to disagree though.... That's fine .

SAGirl

04-13-2016, 08:03 PM

really wasn't being disingenuous. That's my honest opinion. I'm not saying he can't contribute in the future but with the way the Spurs team is currently constructed he doesn't really add much for a 10th or 11th man. We can agree to disagree though.... That's fine .
I see your point as it's not just KA, most of the team is old, slow and lacking athleticism save a few guys and some of them are old so they can't maintain that effort consistently.
I really do prefer him to Kmart and I am sure he's made a case for himself bc Kmart has been terrible most of the time.
The best part of rooting for younger guys is they are still getting better and not beyond hope of improving whatever it was that they needed to work on.
:toast