ESPN Awards Forecast Article

[Russo21]

Starts off with Kawhi claiming the DPOY, we all knew that and it came as no surprise. Scroll down and you'll see Rookie of the year, coach of the year, sixth man of the year, MIP then finally MVP...

MVP:
Curry
Leonard
James
Westbrook
Green

No surprises really. Except maybe Green is too high in the MVP list. The article didn't catch my eye until i read further to the 'others receiving votes' paragraph ... Cousins, Durant, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas. Questions is, who the hell at ESPN gave Timmy a mention in the MVP column lol. That's cool and he is the GOAT and all but WTF.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15217077/nba-mvp-rookie-year-coach-year-sixth-man-award-predictions-espn-forecast

[will_spurs]

This place is going to explode if Kawhi doesn't finish 2nd in MVP.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

If Kawhi finishes top 3 in MVP voting, I really hope he gets all-NBA 1st team over Durant.

[BillMc]

Starts off with Kawhi claiming the DPOY, we all knew that and it came as no surprise. Scroll down and you'll see Rookie of the year, coach of the year, sixth man of the year, MIP then finally MVP...

MVP:
Curry
Leonard
James
Westbrook
Green

No surprises really. Except maybe Green is too high in the MVP list. The article didn't catch my eye until i read further to the 'others receiving votes' paragraph ... Cousins, Durant, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas. Questions is, who the hell at ESPN gave Timmy a mention in the MVP column lol. That's cool and he is the GOAT and all but WTF.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15217077/nba-mvp-rookie-year-coach-year-sixth-man-award-predictions-espn-forecast

The optimist in me thinks some voter appreciates Tim setting the tone and professionalism of the team, realizes he's still an elite defender, and is giving him props for not causing issues (as almost every player of his stature would) when LMA started to get all his shots. Maybe they also were impressed how he was willing to come off the bench that one game and thus placing team over the individual leads the Spurs by example, creating a cohesive unit greater than the sum of its parts.

OR, it was some marginal sportswriter who never watches the games, see the Spurs place in the standings, and automatically assigns the MVP vote to the team's historically greatest player, then gets back to drinking, or internet porn, or whatever the most lazy end of the sportswriter spectrum does with their time.

[Obstructed_View]

Starts off with Kawhi claiming the DPOY, we all knew that and it came as no surprise. Scroll down and you'll see Rookie of the year, coach of the year, sixth man of the year, MIP then finally MVP...

MVP:
Curry
Leonard
James
Westbrook
Green

No surprises really. Except maybe Green is too high in the MVP list. The article didn't catch my eye until i read further to the 'others receiving votes' paragraph ... Cousins, Durant, Tim Duncan, Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas. Questions is, who the hell at ESPN gave Timmy a mention in the MVP column lol. That's cool and he is the GOAT and all but WTF.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15217077/nba-mvp-rookie-year-coach-year-sixth-man-award-predictions-espn-forecast

So Kobe Bryant can get two all-star selections and a handful of all-defense honors that he absolutely hasn't earned and doesn't deserve, but someone can't throw Duncan a single MVP vote? :)

[Russo21]

The optimist in me thinks some voter appreciates Tim setting the tone and professionalism of the team, realizes he's still an elite defender, and is giving him props for not causing issues (as almost every player of his stature would) when LMA started to get all his shots. Maybe they also were impressed how he was willing to come off the bench that one game and thus placing team over the individual leads the Spurs by example, creating a cohesive unit greater than the sum of its parts.

OR, it was some marginal sportswriter who never watches the games, see the Spurs place in the standings, and automatically assigns the MVP vote to the team's historically greatest player, then gets back to drinking, or internet porn, or whatever the most lazy end of the sportswriter spectrum does with their time.

Could be either or. They both kinda make sense, cause even being a huge TD fan i couldn't believe it. Would be nice if a voter actually did pick him for the reasons you mentioned perfectly. Or it could have been some drunk bozo and thought it was 2006, not 2016, or someone who forgot Leonard and LMA are on the team and that Duncan was still the man. Maybe he thought a 67 win team needed 2 players to get votes? And he tossed a coin between Tim and LMA? It just blew my mind when I read Tim's name on that list and thought you guys might want a look lol kudos to the old man! (maybe it was an early 40th birthday present and that's why some guy on that list put in a vote for TD lol)

[Russo21]

So Kobe Bryant can get two all-star selections and a handful of all-defense honors that he absolutely hasn't earned and doesn't deserve, but someone can't throw Duncan a single MVP vote? :) Maybe, it was just such a random name to see there. If the voting was always in this favour of Tim he woulda won plenty of MVPs lol. 1999 when he finished 3rd (he shoulda won that year anyway) 2004 when he finished second to KG, 2005 when he got beat out by Nash, Shaq and Dirk and 2007 when he finished 4th. A few extra random drunk voters woulda been nice in his prime lol he could have ended up with 6.

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe, it was just such a random name to see there. If the voting was always in this favour of Tim he woulda won plenty of MVPs lol. 1999 when he finished 3rd (he shoulda won that year anyway) 2004 when he finished second to KG, 2005 when he got beat out by Nash, Shaq and Dirk and 2007 when he finished 4th. A few extra random drunk voters woulda been nice in his prime lol he could have ended up with 6.

MVP voting has been pretty good throughout Duncan's career. The only egregious selections were Nash and Nash and the guys who should have won it were Lebron and Shaq.

[Spurtacular]

MVP voting has been pretty good throughout Duncan's career. The only egregious selections were Nash and Nash and the guys who should have won it were Lebron and Shaq.

Second year Lebron stat padding while shooting under 50 percent; nah. 06 Shaq definitely didn't deserve it over Nash either.

The worst year was actually 08. KG was the real MVP. The media took it away to give Kobe his token MVP.

[GSH]

MVP voting has been pretty good throughout Duncan's career. The only egregious selections were Nash and Nash and the guys who should have won it were Lebron and Shaq.


Iverson in '01 was a joke, with his EFG% of about .450 give or take. Not to sound like a homer, but Duncan should have had 3 in a row. But no matter what, it shouldn't have gone to AI. High-volume chucker and a ball hog. The value of Tim Duncan on ANY team vs. Iverson? NO comparison.

Nash probably deserved it in '06, but not in '05. Him winning it two years in a row cheapened the distinction of b2b MVP awards.

[Obstructed_View]

Iverson in '01 was a joke, with his EFG% of about .450 give or take. Not to sound like a homer, but Duncan should have had 3 in a row. But no matter what, it shouldn't have gone to AI. High-volume chucker and a ball hog. The value of Tim Duncan on ANY team vs. Iverson? NO comparison.

Nash probably deserved it in '06, but not in '05. Him winning it two years in a row cheapened the distinction of b2b MVP awards.

I agree that you can make a case for someone else from year to year -- Other than Nash* -- but during the 90s there were times that they'd give one guy the award because he deserved it the year before and then give it to someone else the next year because the guy the previous year took his award. Robinson and Malone and Hakeem all did that IIRC.

* John Stockton never finished higher than 8th for MVP. Tony Parker's worst defensive season was last year and it was better than all but two of Steve Nash's years on defense. No fucking way Nash deserved consideration for MVP.

[Obstructed_View]

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to quote Spurtacular on this response. Mah bad.


Second year Lebron stat padding while shooting under 50 percent; nah. 06 Shaq definitely didn't deserve it over Nash either.

The worst year was actually 08. KG was the real MVP. The media took it away to give Kobe his token MVP.


Nash didn't deserve it either year. I think Shaq going to Miami and doing what he did was amazing, as was Lebron doing so much with a shit team. You could have easily given it to Dirk either or both years, which would have given him three in a row. I have a lot less problem with that than Nash even being considered for one.

[Spurtacular]

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to quote Spurtacular (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49615) on this response. Mah bad.




Nash didn't deserve it either year. I think Shaq going to Miami and doing what he did was amazing, as was Lebron doing so much with a shit team. You could have easily given it to Dirk either or both years, which would have given him three in a row. I have a lot less problem with that than Nash even being considered for one.

Lebron and Nash were both ball dominant. Lebron used his leeway to stat pad. Nash orchestrated a much more exciting team while getting better team results.

Shaq was a difference maker / game changer (in a weaker conference) and worthy of being in the top five in the MVP voting; but Nash was part of a more lucid brand; and what Nash was doing was unprecedented, imo.

[GSH]

I agree that you can make a case for someone else from year to year -- Other than Nash* -- but during the 90s there were times that they'd give one guy the award because he deserved it the year before and then give it to someone else the next year because the guy the previous year took his award. Robinson and Malone and Hakeem all did that IIRC.

* John Stockton never finished higher than 8th for MVP. Tony Parker's worst defensive season was last year and it was better than all but two of Steve Nash's years on defense. No fucking way Nash deserved consideration for MVP.


Ahhhh, I can't disagree with you that it's generally pretty reasonable. Except for Iverson - that little bastard never should have been anything but Most Malignant Cancer. I'd take prime Nash over him 100 times out of 100. And you're exactly right about the make-up awards with DRob/Malone/Hakeem. Several years in there, you could make a pretty good case for any of the three of them.

I didn't know Stockton never got considered higher than 8th. That's a damn travesty. I hated that sonofabitch, but I'd never deny how good he was.

[Spurtacular]

Iverson in '01 was a joke, with his EFG% of about .450 give or take. Not to sound like a homer, but Duncan should have had 3 in a row. But no matter what, it shouldn't have gone to AI. High-volume chucker and a ball hog. The value of Tim Duncan on ANY team vs. Iverson? NO comparison.

Nash probably deserved it in '06, but not in '05. Him winning it two years in a row cheapened the distinction of b2b MVP awards.

Along those lines, people say LBJ deserved his 5th in a row over Rose. I don't mind having a higher standard for the back to backs given that sometimes some of those MVPs are marginal. For instance, if you reverse Curry's last two years stats, I think he ends up with only one MVP.

[Obstructed_View]

Lebron and Nash were both ball dominant. Lebron used his leeway to stat pad. Nash orchestrated a much more exciting team while getting better team results.

Shaq was a difference maker / game changer (in a weaker conference) and worthy of being in the top five in the MVP voting; but Nash was part of a more lucid brand; and what Nash was doing was unprecedented, imo.

Fast break and pick and roll are nothing new. Paul Westhead had the Nuggets in a run and gun offense when Mike D'Antoni was still playing in Italy.

[Obstructed_View]

Ahhhh, I can't disagree with you that it's generally pretty reasonable. Except for Iverson - that little bastard never should have been anything but Most Malignant Cancer. I'd take prime Nash over him 100 times out of 100. And you're exactly right about the make-up awards with DRob/Malone/Hakeem. Several years in there, you could make a pretty good case for any of the three of them.

I didn't know Stockton never got considered higher than 8th. That's a damn travesty. I hated that sonofabitch, but I'd never deny how good he was.

You may not like Iverson, but he was a hell of a player, especially when he was with the Sixers. He took an absolute shit team to the finals and actually won a game.

[lefty]

You may not like Iverson, but he was a hell of a player, especially when he was with the Sixers. He took an absolute shit team to the finals and actually won a game.

This.

And he was playing through injuries
(Although the Bucks were kinda sixereffed in the ECF)

[Spurtacular]

Fast break and pick and roll are nothing new. Paul Westhead had the Nuggets in a run and gun offense when Mike D'Antoni was still playing in Italy.

Nothing quite like that in the NBA before or since.

[GSH]

You may not like Iverson, but he was a hell of a player, especially when he was with the Sixers. He took an absolute shit team to the finals and actually won a game.


The funny thing is, I actually liked the guy. I said here many times that I thought he was the toughest player I have ever seen. Many times I saw him roll an ankle so badly that I thought it would at least have him out for weeks. He'd go to the sideline, lace the kicks up tighter, and get right back out on the floor. He led the league in minutes, or close to it, for a bunch of seasons. For pure toughness he's still at the top of my list.

He had a lot of anger, though. He needed Larry Brown in the worst way, but he stayed angry and resentful at him too much of the time. He took that team to the finals, but it was Larry Brown that took Iverson there.

I don't care what he did off the court. But on the court, he couldn't put down his personal demons enough to make his teammates better. If he had been surrounded by better teammates, I don't really think they would have been a much better team. I remember him leading the league in scoring one year - but also in turnovers, and steals because he gambled on D too much, and FGA's because he didn't look to get teammates shots nearly enough. He had MVP numbers, but I didn't think he was the Most Valuable Player.

[will_spurs]

Fast break and pick and roll are nothing new. Paul Westhead had the Nuggets in a run and gun offense when Mike D'Antoni was still playing in Italy.

I disagree. What d'Antoni and Nash did was unprecedented (and it was far more than just "run and gun"), and it's still affecting the league 10 years later. But that's more consideration for HoF or something like that. Nash was great, and if it meant one fewer MVP for Kobe I was all for that :lol but yeah b2b MVP was a bit over the top.

[YGWHI]

The optimist in me thinks some voter appreciates Tim setting the tone and professionalism of the team, realizes he's still an elite defender, and is giving him props for not causing issues (as almost every player of his stature would) when LMA started to get all his shots. Maybe they also were impressed how he was willing to come off the bench that one game and thus placing team over the individual leads the Spurs by example, creating a cohesive unit greater than the sum of its parts.

OR, it was some marginal sportswriter who never watches the games, see the Spurs place in the standings, and automatically assigns the MVP vote to the team's historically greatest player, then gets back to drinking, or internet porn, or whatever the most lazy end of the sportswriter spectrum does with their time.
Agree with the first part of your comment. His strong leadership would be a good reason but they could definitely justify voting for Tim using his defensive stats...his D is elite by any advanced metric.

[Obstructed_View]

I disagree. What d'Antoni and Nash did was unprecedented (and it was far more than just "run and gun"), and it's still affecting the league 10 years later. But that's more consideration for HoF or something like that. Nash was great, and if it meant one fewer MVP for Kobe I was all for that :lol but yeah b2b MVP was a bit over the top.

Well I respect your opinion so I'll ask you to explain it further, because to me, it's a combination of fast break, penetrate and kick, and pick and roll. The only thing the Suns really did that nobody had done before was shoot threes in transition. Nash happens to be about as good as anyone who ever played at that particular shot, so giving him the green light was kind of lightning in a bottle, and having Nash with two catch-and-shoot guys on the perimeter with him made it work. Ever since then, it's pretty universally regarded as a terrible offensive choice to shoot a three on a break instead of going for an easier shot with a chance of drawing a foul.

And unfortunately, an offense that fits Nash's skillset crashes and burns without him on the floor.

[Spurminator]

Iverson in '01 was a no-brainer. Look at that roster... They made the NBA Finals. You can't judge that on individual stats.