Is Kawhi Leonard better than LeBron James?

[Uriel]

I believe he is.

He doesn't have the offensive capability to carry an entire team all by himself, like LeBron does.

But no player in the world has the ability to impact the game on both ends of the floor like Kawhi. He's a knockdown shooter from deep, he can guard positions 1 through 4, he can get to the line while still finishing in traffic, he's very good at playing passing lanes and anticipating the steal. I could go on and on.

At one point, he was #1 in the NBA in real plus-minus--ahead of even Steph Curry--before Pop started experimenting towards the end of the season and ruining his numbers. There's a reason why the Spurs have the 2nd best record in the NBA and Kawhi will finish 2nd in MVP voting.

[Mugen]

No tbh

[SpursforSix]

He's clearly the best player in the game today.

[BillMc]

If you take into account what a headache LeBron is for the coach, organization and some other players to deal with, I'd take Kawhi.

[apalisoc_9]

Id take Kawhi.

[gambit1990]

as a spurs fan, i'm ecstatic that this is even a legitimate question.

[DarrinS]

Who cares?

[south side spur]

He has to be the best player on the court in the Golden State series. None of this Bron Bron fan rationalization that he makes everyone else better until...he doesn't. Then it's everyone else's fault. To be better than Lebron or better than Curry he has to carry the Spurs offensively otherwise no he's not.

[Mr. Body]

No. LeBron controls a team and offense in a way Kawhi doesn't at this point.

[gambit1990]

If you take into account what a headache LeBron is for the coach, organization and some other players to deal with, I'd take Kawhi.
if lebron was on the spurs he wouldn't be headache for anyone. he'd be too happy winning.

do the cavs even have a front office? i'm not even sure if that "organization" knows what those two words mean. they're lucky to be in the east.

[Cry Havoc]

LeBron is too consistent. Kawhi is right behind him IMO and a half a tier behind Curry.

[DMC]

lol no and it's not close. Lebron is a walking playoff ticket.

This place is like Lakersground lite. This is the "Ditka" crew for sure.

[spursparker9]

Kawhi match up well against Lebron.

But comparing Kawhi vs THE REST and Lebron vs THE REST...Lebron is still better

[phxspurfan]

LeBron is a walking finals ticket

Kawhi still needs to prove he can lead a team like LeBron has already proven (for more than part of a season with help, or one game with help). LeBron is and always has been Cleveland all by himself. Sadly on the Heat super team, many times he was that whole team as well.

[spurraider21]

going forward i'll take kawhi, he's much younger and is still improving

but lebron currently has more impact on games, imo

[Galileo]

Head-to-head in a series, Kawhi is better hands down. Lebron will be reduced to a jump shooter & passer with a few off-balance lurches thrown in.

[BillMc]

if lebron was on the spurs he wouldn't be headache for anyone. he'd be too happy winning.

do the cavs even have a front office? i'm not even sure if that "organization" knows what those two words mean. they're lucky to be in the east.

He won plenty in Miami and he and Riley butted-heads about LeBron's entourage (he wanted them on team flights, right behind the bench, and to have a few of them get jobs inside the Heat organization). LeBron's had this freedom in both his stints in Cleveland. Riles said 'no' and that's a big factor in why he left despite 4 straight Finals appearances and two titles. So, if Riles and winning couldn't make him happy, not sure Pop and winning would either. He wants to run the show.

But I completely agree with you about the cavs organization and their "front office." :lol

[LongtimeSpursFan]

NO. / thread.

[mookie2001]

Labronie works the refs from the tipoff. He uses all 48 minutes to play the game that sets himself up to control final possessions and to ice games at the line. Until kawhi does this, no he's not better

[Obstructed_View]

Kawhi Leonard is a great player, he's improving all the time, and he's 24 years old. Today, 99 percent of people would take 31-year-old Lebron over him. That's not an insult in any way. Kawhi Leonard has turned himself into one of the top players in the league. Lebron has turned himself into one of the top players of all time.

[Arcadian]

Gotta go with 24-yo Kawhi over 31-yo Lebron. Neither is currently peaking, but I'll take the guy with upside over a guy on the decline.

[99 Problems]

From 2014 onwards if Bron goes beast mode and carries his team they still can be beaten and often are in big games be it Heat or Cavs. Kawhi when he explodes both end of the court Spurs almost always win.

[KimmyGib]

At the present time it's still Lebron. His playmaking and distributing are on another level, and probably present the biggest disparity between the two players. He's also better at playing through frustration/adversity than the younger Leonard, and making better decisions in difficult situations. With the way Kawhi's progressing he'll probably surpass him soon though. So if you're taking age into account, then Kawhi.

[TrainOfThought5]

I believe hes next in line to recieve the torch from Lebron.

[kaji157]

I voted no because while Kawhi is right now a top player i think LeBron is a more complete player, Kawhi is a better defender, yet lebron can defend many positions, and is a better offensive player and playmaker.

I think Kawhi being on the Spurs makes him look maybe better than James but just think if the Cavs had KL instead of LJ could they have reached the finals and took GS to 6 games? Would the cavs have the record they have right now.

Most likely no.

[thiste]

Kawhi Leonard is a great player, he's improving all the time, and he's 24 years old. Today, 99 percent of people would take 31-year-old Lebron over him. That's not an insult in any way. Kawhi Leonard has turned himself into one of the top players in the league. Lebron has turned himself into one of the top players of all time.

Not so sure about the 99% figure. I mean for people who know their shit (ie who actually know who Kawhi is and what he's capable of), I'm sure it'd be way closer to 50/50 (taking age into account as well).

[SpursFan86]

If you're talking about who you'd rather have going forward, it's clearly Kawhi considering their age gap. But in terms of who's the better player now, it's fairly comfortably LeBron still. As others have alluded to, Kawhi just hasn't shown the consistency of LeBron. If I have to pick between having LeBron or Kawhi for one playoff run right now, I'm going with LeBron.

Regardless, the fact that this is even remotely a debate is pretty incredible and shows how lucky we've gotten with Kawhi.

[r0drig0lac]

Lebron? it is better than MJ...... [/green]

[lilbthebasedgod]

lol no.

But you could make a case that Kawhi has higher upside in this stage of his career.

[KDKSpurs24]

I voted for Lebron. Yeah I want Kawhi to be the best but he isn't better than Lebron right now. I hope he can get to that level soon though. And I think he will.

[Budkin]

Um, no.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Lmao not even close. He isn't even durant level yet, but he's a solid rank 4 in the NBA after curry, bron, and durant

[emanueldavidginobili]

No. I love KL but he's not better than LBJ, LeBron is one of the best basketball players to ever walk this earth, his play making is off the charts, granted KL is only 24 but it's still LeBron as of right now, he can lead a team to the finals, doesn't always win but we have yet to see how KL will do surrounded by no one. LeBron took the 2007 cavs to the championship with NOONE on the team.

[Obstructed_View]

Not so sure about the 99% figure. I mean for people who know their shit (ie who actually know who Kawhi is and what he's capable of), I'm sure it'd be way closer to 50/50 (taking age into account as well).

So...psychics?

[DMC]

No. I love KL but he's not better than LBJ, LeBron is one of the best basketball players to ever walk this earth, his play making is off the charts, granted KL is only 24 but it's still LeBron as of right now, he can lead a team to the finals, doesn't always win but we have yet to see how KL will do surrounded by no one. LeBron took the 2007 cavs to the championship with NOONE on the team.
No, he took them to the Finals. He did not take them to the championship. I know that's what you meant but let's not equivocate.

[DMC]

So...phychics?
What the hell is a phychic? Is that a chick taking physics?

[Obstructed_View]

What the hell is a phychic? Is that a chick taking physics?

Goddamn, I have thirty-seven thousand posts without a fucking typo and I fail to proofread once.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Kawhi's defense is better than Lebron's defense. His individual offense is as good as Lebron's, but his playmaking and court vision is nowhere near Lebron's level.

[DMC]

Goddamn, I have thirty-seven thousand posts without a fucking typo and I fail to proofread once.
And I nailed your balls to the floor on it.

[Obstructed_View]

And I nailed your balls to the floor on it.

I just realized when typing in the flagrant foul thread that the spell checker for Chrome isn't working, which is how I missed it. If it makes you feel like a man, though, you go on ahead.

[Obstructed_View]

Kawhi's defense is better than Lebron's defense. His individual offense is as good as Lebron's, but his playmaking and court vision is nowhere near Lebron's level.

Um, no.

[Kawhitstorm]

LeBron is and always has been Cleveland all by himself. Sadly on the Heat super team, many times he was that whole team as well.

LeBron simply hijacked the Heats offense & turned Bosh into Ibaka otherwise he could have averaged 20/10.


Kawhi Leonard is a great player, he's improving all the time, and he's 24 years old. Today, 99 percent of people would take 31-year-old Lebron over him. That's not an insult in any way. Kawhi Leonard has turned himself into one of the top players in the league. Lebron has turned himself into one of the top players of all time.

LeBron was being dared to take jumpers by the Pistons in Gm 3 as if it was the 2013 Finals & for the most part, it worked.:lol

(Stanley Johnson/Morris also have also combined for a solid series while being guarded by LeBron)

[will_spurs]

His individual offense is as good as Lebron's

No, and that's why Lebron is still a better player. Kawhi lacks offensive consistency right now. Sometimes he disappears for whole quarters on O, or for whatever reason klike at the beginning of last game passes up a WIDE open 3 (literally couldn't be more open than that). He just doesn't have a shooter mentality, which is not necessarily bad, but will limit him on the offensive side.

Also Kawhi's isoball isn't on par with Lebron at all (not to mention e.g. Durant), although it's a by-product of the Spurs system as by design the Spurs rarely go iso. Right now for example Kawhi is a great 3pt shooter because he gets a ton of open shots. But that's nowhere near the kind of stuff Curry or Durant do when the going gets tough and somebody has to take a contested shot--because sometimes the system fails or the D is really good and there is no open shot.

This being said Kawhi has shown tremendous year-to-year progress and he's still young, so there's no reason to believe he won't be even better next year. I fully trust him to work and improve on all the aspects of his game that aren't still (or yet) exceptional. And right now he deserves to be #2 in MVP behind Curry, but that's a regular season award. I still like Lebrons ability to take over games in the playoffs, and his sustained extremely high production and efficiency in the playoffs in general.

[cutewizard]

Kawhi Leonard is a great player, he's improving all the time, and he's 24 years old. Today, 99 percent of people would take 31-year-old Lebron over him. That's not an insult in any way. Kawhi Leonard has turned himself into one of the top players in the league. Lebron has turned himself into one of the top players of all time.


------------------------------------------------------

this is probably the most objective.........

anyway im just happy Kawhi is in the conversation at all....

now to game four gentlemen, bring out the brooms, lets clean room , hahahahahahahahaha

[cutewizard]

ole, ole ole ole, ole, ole

:claw

[Dro210]

He's clearly the best player in the game today.

[thiste]

So...psychics?

What I meant is, if you're asking casual fans there's a good chance they won't know Kawhi enough, and will just choose Lebron on mere popularity. But if you choose between the two while having a good understanding of who both players are and what they can bring, the answer might be more nuanced.

[YGWHI]

Sometimes he disappears for whole quarters on O
I'd say, first quarters.

Since the 2nd part of the season, it's clear that Pop wants to establish LMA-Parker two-man game in the first quarters, force-feeing LMA, that means that Kawhi must park in the corner and wait for long stretches without the ball in his hands.

Sometimes this force-feed makes good things happen, other times it stagnates the SL offense and the Spurs have slow starts.


or for whatever reason klike at the beginning of last game passes up a WIDE open 3 (literally couldn't be more open than that)
He was trying to get Danny going in that play, but he shouldn't pass up clean looks, it'd be nice to see Kawhi becoming more selfish.

[YGWHI]

But that's nowhere near the kind of stuff Curry or Durant do when the going gets tough and somebody has to take a contested shot--because sometimes the system fails or the D is really good and there is no open shot.

After watching Durant numbers in clutch time this season, I'd put only Curry there.

However, it's not like Kawhi isn't really good at making those shots, Lowe said that Kawhi ranks among the league best one-on-one scorers, from both the perimeter and the post.
In game 3, before his last three-point-shot, the previous play, he beat Allen one-on-one with a tough shot.

[tmtcsc]

By virtue of Kawhi not being a 12 year old little girl on social media - Yes. Also, because he's not a Narcissistic, ego maniacal coach killer.

[GSH]

LeBron had scored almost 11,000 points in his first 5 seasons. Kawhi scored 4,650 in his first 5 years.
LeBron had about 2,600 RB and about 2,600 AST in his first 5 seasons. Kawhi has 2,039 RB and 643 AST in his first 5 years.
LeBron went to the FT line about 3,400 times in his first 5 seasons. Kawhi has 926 FTA in his first 5 seasons. (Huge, huge stat.)

LeBron isn't just a "better offensive player" - he's on a different planet than Kawhi, offensively.


Edit: Looking at THIS season, and looking at the Per-100 possession stats, instead of raw totals? The offensive gap isn't nearly as big as I expected. And Kawhi is a better overall defender. LeBron is bigger and heavier, and can guard some bigger players in a pinch. But overall, Kawhi's defense is better, and enough to offset the offensive difference.

I don't know about better, but I think Kawhi is just as good and has a lot more upside and future. I was wrong. Can I have my vote back?

[barbacoataco]

I hate Lebron and I bleed silver and black but I voted for James. It is true that he's a headache for the coach, primadonna, etc, but he's so dominant on the court. His passing is light years ahead of Kawhi. Leonard is a better defender, but James can be a good defender when he wants, and he can defend many different positions.

Given their ages, and Lebron's bad attitude, I would definitely take Leonard in building a team. But in the court right now LJ is a more dominant force night in and night out.

[SpursFan86]

Kawhi is definitely up there LeBron when it comes to isolation/posting up...and he's a much better spot-up shooter.

However, it's LeBron's ability to run an offense, break down the defense, get to the rim, and create for others that separates him from Kawhi. While Kawhi shows glimpses of being able to do those things, he doesn't do them nearly as consistently as LeBron. And while being an elite post-up/isolation player is great, I don't think those things are as valuable as penetration, forcing rotations, and then having GOAT-tier court vision and the ability to create for others. LeBron typically commands much more attention than Kawhi does, and that opens up things for others even more. That's not to say Kawhi never gets double teamed or that teams never have to change their defense to try stopping him...but those things certainly don't happen to the extent you see with LeBron.

[YGWHI]

LeBron isn't just a "better offensive player" - he's on a different planet than Kawhi, offensively.
When people compare two players, they should look for how they work in their matchups and Kawhi has elevated his offensive game to match LeBron numbers in the 4 games against him last two sesons, he took 4.25 less shots than him and scored just 4 less points.

I wouldn't say that LeBron is on a different planet offensively when he has to play Kawhi.

[Gagnrath]

If I am trying to build a team for the future with a chance now I take Leonard. If I am trying to win now or in the next year I go with LeBron.... On court Leonard has better D currently but there are plenty of power forwards Leonard can't regularly be expected to match up with. There are basically non with James. Kahwi can defend some PGs but its not an ideal situation.... Leonard is a better defender but the margin is not all that large.

On offense LeBron is a better ballhandler. Its not a huge margin but almost no one is a threat to take the ball away from LeBron or cause him to loose his dribble.

Shooting, James shot outside of 15 feet seems to have mostly deserted him... I am not entirely sure why. Leonard is the superior outside shooter. Both are capable inside and from the foul line. James due to greater bulk and strength is better at finishing after contact.

Distribution James is a better passer and sees cutters and where help defense is coming from more readily. Leonard at this point occasionally needs bailed out or rushes/forces a shot. This is where Leonard is most likely to continue to improve as having the ball and command double teams is new to him.

Team: James is know to be a friendly gregarious teammate who has the back of lesser players. With role players and bench men his ability and willingness to share the ball along with a open personality make him a good teammate. He has a tendency to clash with team management due to being fairly egotistical and self oriented. He can also cause issues with lessor stars because of his ball dominating and self promotional nature. Leonard is a much quieter personality he is more aloof but also seems to be a locker room plus. He leads through example and in many ways is his own worst critic.

In conclusion at over 30 with high usage and ton of miles LeBron is visibly slowing, unless he puts in the work to regain his outside shot over the next few years he will decline into a tweener forward with limited range. While capable barring injury of playing into his late 30s it is questionable if he will want to play past 35 given the reduction in prestige and role that career move would take. Leonard on the other hand is likely to continue to improve for another year or two before entering his prime. He is also shown to be more willing to enter into contracts that help both him and his team.

[JohnnyMax]

Switch Kawhi and Lebron:

-Cavs sweep every D-League team.. I mean Eastern Conference team and go to Finals.
-Spurs get knocked out in the 3rd round by Golden State. Pop is fired and replaced with Black coach. Duncan/Ginobli/Parker are scapegoated and either traded or forced to retire. Lebron signs with Golden State after all that happens.

[apalisoc_9]

Its kawhi and its not even close. Lebron this year struggled mighty without irving and love providinv respectable gravity.

Shooting is everything in a space and pace game. With kawhi's magnititude, hes the better player.

[Russo21]

LBJ is clearly one of the best players of all time and it's weird to say this for a 5 or 6 time MVP but I don't think he ever reached his potential.

2nd year LBJ age 19-20: 27.2ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.2apg, 2.2spg, 0.7bpg, 47%FG, 35%3PTFG
Career LBJ: 27.2ppg, 7.2rpg, 6.9apg, 1.7spg, 0.8bpg, 49%FG, 34%3PTFG

Career highs
31.4ppg in his 3rd year
8.0rpg in his 10th year
8.6apg in his 6th year
2.2spg in his 2nd year
1.1bpg in his 5th year

Crazy to say this but he had the game and physical tools to average 40 10 and 10. He never really worked on his handles which are pretty ugly for such a great player. 3 point shooting is up and down, career low 29%, career high 40%, this year 30%. He is as unstoppable as a freight train but often settles for ugly long jumpers. There are some things he could have worked on and 40 10 and 10 wouldn't have been out of the question. I honestly don't think he quite reached his ceiling, lucky for the other teams in the NBA.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

A Kawhi led team couldn't even make it out of the first round. LeBron took his team to finals and were actually up on Dubs. In his first run with Cavs he even had less talent and took them to finals.
Just because Kawhi and LeBron stats may be similar their presence on floor differ. LeBron commands the whole respect of the opposing team. Coaches game plans revolve around stopping LeBron. Kawhi can easily be covered by one defender.

[dbreiden83080]

Lebron but his time is rapidly coming to an end. Coming into the league at 18, all these years of the playoffs, 5 straight times in the finals. He is coming out of the prime and the road to titles is not getting any easier..

[.G.]

Lubrown played his entire career in the lEASTern conference. Niglets' numbers would've been different had he balled with the real niggas out in the West.

[skulls138]

Lebron is more physically gifted but I like Kawhis game better. Kawhi can deliver off the dribble when needed but can also take the simple pass for a spot up 3. He rewards good passing by doing the simple thing. I hardly ever see Lebron doing that. He wants to be the facilitator or scorer from his own dribble, never the recipient.

[SpursFan86]

Lebron this year struggled mighty without irving and love providinv respectable gravity.

Yeah, you're pulling this out of your ass :lol

LeBron on: Cavs' Net RTG = +11.7
LeBron on, Kyrie off: Cavs' Net RTG = +14.3 - LeBron scored 27.8 points per 36 minutes on a 58.2 TS%
LeBron on, Love off: Cavs' Net RTG = +10.3 - LeBron scored 29.4 points per 36 minutes on a 57.5 TS%
LeBron on, Kyrie and Love both off: Cavs' Net RTG = +10.0 - LeBron scored 31.4 points per 36 minutes on a 57.9 TS%
LeBron off: Cavs' Net RTG = -5.3

As long as LeBron is on the court, Cavs are an elite team. And unless you consider scoring 30+ points per 36 minutes on great efficiency while leading your team to a double digit positive net rating, your "LeBron struggled mightily without Irving and Love" statement is complete bullshit.

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah, you're pulling this out of your ass :lol

LeBron on: Cavs' Net RTG = +11.7
LeBron on, Kyrie off: Cavs' Net RTG = +14.3 - LeBron scored 27.8 points per 36 minutes on a 58.2 TS%
LeBron on, Love off: Cavs' Net RTG = +10.3 - LeBron scored 29.4 points per 36 minutes on a 57.5 TS%
LeBron on, Kyrie and Love both off: Cavs' Net RTG = +10.0 - LeBron scored 31.4 points per 36 minutes on a 57.9 TS%
LeBron off: Cavs' Net RTG = -5.3

As long as LeBron is on the court, Cavs are an elite team. And unless you consider scoring 30+ points per 36 minutes on great efficiency while leading your team to a double digit positive net rating, your "LeBron struggled mightily without Irving and Love" statement is complete bullshit.

Those stats ignore the very fundamental question of this thread. Of course The cavs are always going to be better with Lebron playing :lol

But their peak team potential is essentialy dimished significantly without one of kyrie and Love to provide gravity. Lebrons shot has been off.

If you've been watching the playoffs, there's a reason why the team plays through love and kyrie now. Lebron feeds off of those two. The cavs would have lost a game possibly two if Lebron continues.to hijack the offense.

[SpursFan86]

Those stats ignore the very fundamental question of this thread. Of course The cavs are always going to be better with Lebron playing :lol

But their peak team potential is essentialy dimished significantly without one of kyrie and Love to provide gravity. Lebrons shot has been off.

If you've been watching the playoffs, there's a reason why the team plays through love and kyrie now. Lebron feeds off of those two. The cavs would have lost a game possibly two if Lebron continues.to hijack the offense.

You said LeBron "struggles mightily" without Love and Kyrie. The Cavs this year were still dominant without Kyrie/Love on the court, and LeBron still played great on an individual basis.

"LeBron struggles mightly without the help of Kyrie and Love's gravity" isn't remotely the same as "The Cavs' peak potential is lower without Kyrie/Love". The latter is obvious. The former is flat-out wrong and is the statement you made.

[100%duncan]

going forward i'll take kawhi, he's much younger and is still improving

but lebron currently has more impact on games, imo

[GSH]

When people compare two players, they should look for how they work in their matchups and Kawhi has elevated his offensive game to match LeBron numbers in the 4 games against him last two sesons, he took 4.25 less shots than him and scored just 4 less points.

I wouldn't say that LeBron is on a different planet offensively when he has to play Kawhi.


Well you're right, but for the wrong reason. (You can't look at one match-up, even the head to head matchup. They play 82 games.) But I looked at this seasons Per 100 Possessions stats. That's a lot more fair comparison than raw totals. LeBron still has more offensive firepower (points, AST's, FTA's) than Kawhi. But the gap is a LOT closer than I had expected to see. LeBron still dishes out quite a few more AST's than Kawhi, and that helps make his teammates better. And his penetration is so strong that it makes those assists possible.

I was surprised that their RB numbers are almost identical. Kawhi shoots FT's and 3P's better, but LeBron's 2P% is still considerably better than Kawhi's. LeBron gets to the line more, but Kawhi knocks down a much better percentage of his.

Bottom line - I voted for LeBron, but if I had looked at the Per 100 stats (like I should have) I would have gone the other way. On a per-possession basis, the offensive numbers are close enough that Kawhi's defense more than makes up the gap, IMO.

[AFMadison]

I think Kawhi is the best player in the league. If I were to build a team around any player it would be Kawhi. Kawhi brings no drama, and hustles every night. Lebron is a diva on and off the court, which to me factors into which player is better.

[Spurtacular]

He's clearly the best player in the game today.

[YGWHI]

It's a good thing for the Spurs that Kawhi loves and takes pride in playing LeBron, it seems like Kawhi was born to play him on the big stage.


Well you're right, but for the wrong reason. (You can't look at one match-up, even the head to head matchup. They play 82 games.) But I looked at this seasons Per 100 Possessions stats. That's a lot more fair comparison than raw totals.

LeBron still has more offensive firepower (points, AST's, FTA's) than Kawhi. But the gap is a LOT closer than I had expected to see. LeBron still dishes out quite a few more AST's than Kawhi, and that makes his team better. And his penetration is so strong that it makes those assists possible.

I was surprised that their RB numbers are almost identical. Kawhi shoots FT's and 3P's better, but LeBron's 2P% is still considerably better than Kawhi's. LeBron gets to the line more, but Kawhi knocks down a much better percentage of his.

Bottom line - I voted for LeBron, but if I had looked at the Per 100 stats (like I should have) I would have gone the other way. On a per-possession basis, the offensive numbers are close enough that Kawhi's defense more than makes up the gap, IMO.

Great stats. Thanks for posting them!

[ducks]

Id take Kawhi.

You would take your aunt over a 10 women

[Mugen]

You would take your aunt over a 10 women

:lol

[GSH]

You would take your aunt over a 10 women

LOL. Ducks stepping up his game in the playoffs.

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi had a better season, but Lebron is still the better player..

It's tough to judge somebody in Lebron's position, as he was pretty ordinary during the 1st half of the season prior to the annual "Miami trip":lol..it's a given that Lebron is going to coast during half the year, nowadays..

Kawhi is better than Durant, though, at this point..

Hey brah, can you paraly the 2nd round for me with the winnings once the first round is done? Spurs-Cavs against whoever they play.

[spurraider21]

You would take your aunt over a 10 women
:wow

[Obstructed_View]

Edit: Looking at THIS season, and looking at the Per-100 possession stats, instead of raw totals? The offensive gap isn't nearly as big as I expected. And Kawhi is a better overall defender. LeBron is bigger and heavier, and can guard some bigger players in a pinch. But overall, Kawhi's defense is better, and enough to offset the offensive difference.

I don't know about better, but I think Kawhi is just as good and has a lot more upside and future. I was wrong. Can I have my vote back?

His offense is amazing, and it pales compared to his defense. Kawhi has made huge leaps and bounds on a team full of guys that take pressure off him, where still nobody is game-planning for how to stop him by himself. But your first instinct was the correct one. Can we have him get to the all-star game two times before we declare him interchangable with a top-5 all-time player?

[HarlemHeat37]

Hey brah, can you paraly the 2nd round for me with the winnings once the first round is done? Spurs-Cavs against whoever they play.

Cool

[Obstructed_View]

So nearly half the people that voted in this thread think that the Spurs wouldn't have been first in the west with Lebron instead of Kawhi?

[apalisoc_9]

Cool

Sorry for the trouble brah. I wanted to PM yiu but the mods disabled my profile and pms. I am 20% banned basically.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

You would take your aunt over a 10 women

[sasaint]

He won plenty in Miami and he and Riley butted-heads about LeBron's entourage (he wanted them on team flights, right behind the bench, and to have a few of them get jobs inside the Heat organization). LeBron's had this freedom in both his stints in Cleveland. Riles said 'no' and that's a big factor in why he left despite 4 straight Finals appearances and two titles. So, if Riles and winning couldn't make him happy, not sure Pop and winning would either. He wants to run the show.

But I completely agree with you about the cavs organization and their "front office." :lol

Didn't know that stuff about Lebron and Riles. Just imagine trying to get his entourage on a Spurs team flight! :lol Lebron is all about winning - as long as it's on his terms. :lol

[GSH]

His offense is amazing, and it pales compared to his defense. Kawhi has made huge leaps and bounds on a team full of guys that take pressure off him, where still nobody is game-planning for how to stop him by himself. But your first instinct was the correct one. Can we have him get to the all-star game two times before we declare him interchangable with a top-5 all-time player?


Heh. I'm sure you're right. But stats based on 82 games still have some meaning. You either put up the goods or you don't. And between the way Pop limits minutes, the Spurs' slow pace, plus the team game they play, the raw numbers were a little misleading. I was just pretty shocked at how close the Per-100 offensive stats really were.

I know instinctively that LeBron is a generational player. But I also know instinctively that Kawhi's defense is pretty damned exceptional - and it doesn't show up on a stat sheet. It's always tough to compare two guys who play a different game, and get their numbers a different way.

No offense, but I'm going to pass on using All-Star appearances in my decision making. But sooner or later people are going to be using Championships to question whether LeBron is as good of a player/teammate as his talent should make him. If not for The Decision, and Miami being able to bring together a ridiculous bunch of talent, he might not have any. Probably wouldn't have any.

Okay, so maybe Kawhi isn't better. But the gap is a lot closer than my first instinct said. The numbers, plus what I "know" about his defense, say so.

[Obstructed_View]

Heh. I'm sure you're right. But stats based on 82 games still have some meaning. You either put up the goods or you don't. And between the way Pop limits minutes, the Spurs' slow pace, plus the team game they play, the raw numbers were a little misleading. I was just pretty shocked at how close the Per-100 offensive stats really were.

I know instinctively that LeBron is a generational player. But I also know instinctively that Kawhi's defense is pretty damned exceptional - and it doesn't show up on a stat sheet. It's always tough to compare two guys who play a different game, and get their numbers a different way.

No offense, but I'm going to pass on using All-Star appearances in my decision making. But sooner or later people are going to be using Championships to question whether LeBron is as good of a player/teammate as his talent should make him. If not for The Decision, and Miami being able to bring together a ridiculous bunch of talent, he might not have any. Probably wouldn't have any.

Okay, so maybe Kawhi isn't better. But the gap is a lot closer than my first instinct said. The numbers, plus what I "know" about his defense, say so.

Most people here are saying they'd take him based on his age, which means they're assuming he's going to continue to improve, which is the only reason I suggested waiting maybe another season. While it's a safe bet that Kawhi will continue to close the gap, there's still a gap.

I'm not sure I could be much happier that there's even a serious discussion about it. I think "over the moon" is probably a good characterization. :lol

[BillMc]

Didn't know that stuff about Lebron and Riles. Just imagine trying to get his entourage on a Spurs team flight! :lol Lebron is all about winning - as long as it's on his terms. :lol

To be fair the Cavs let him do this from day one when he entered the league at 18. So he feels entitled. He's a spoiled child. But his privilege is based on his performance. What will be interesting to see is in say, 5 years, if he is allowed this stuff when he's not only not the best player in the NBA but not the best player on his own team. Kobe had a lot of privilege in his final years as a Laker as his skills and health declined but a) the Buss children were desperate to please their one big draw and b) Kobe has no entourage.

[Obstructed_View]

To be fair the Cavs let him do this from day one when he entered the league at 18. So he feels entitled. He's a spoiled child. But his privilege is based on his performance. What will be interesting to see in say, 5 years, if he is allowed this stuff when he's not only not the best player in the NBA but not the best player on his own team. Kobe had a lot of privilege in his final years as a Laker as his skills and health decline but a) the Buss children were desperate to please their one big draw and b) Kobe has no entourage, no one even likes him.

Lebron's spoiled, but he's not an idiot. I wouldn't be shocked if he left Cleveland again. Do the Spurs have enough cap room this summer for him?

[BillMc]

Lebron's spoiled, but he's not an idiot. I wouldn't be shocked if he left Cleveland again. Do the Spurs have enough cap room this summer for him?

He'll never go west. The East is too easy to make the Finals.

[dabom]

Kawhi is so unique to the Spurs. He can play off the ball and on the ball. Lebron isn't the shooter that Kawhi is. He doesn't have the midrange, or 3 to space the floor for the team. I personalty don't think he is the rebounder Kawhi is. Playing powerforward definitely gives him more room for easy rebounds. Post up play is about even. Kawhi is more traditional but Lebron got the bully play. Lebron is the better playmaker though. I give the offense to Kawhi. Not even talking about how way better defensively Kawhi is than Lebron. I even saw some weak ass stats on reddit and ISH comparing both players on defense. First of all, Kawhi is ALWAYS defending the best player all game. I'm sure Lebald does that but only in spot minutes in the fourth. The quality of players Kawhi defends is way better. And that's why Kawhi leads the best defense in the game. Defense hands down goes to Kawhi.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi has made huge leaps and bounds on a team full of guys that take pressure off him, where still nobody is game-planning for how to stop him by himself.

I wouldn't say we have a lot of guys taking pressure off him, just LMA.

LeBron has other two guys scoring over 20 ppg in 3 games this series, Kawhi...no one...zero...0.

LeBron averages 23 ppg in 41 mpg against Detroit, Kawhi 21.5 ppg in 33 mpg

Yep, we can say..."just the Grizz" but Kawhi won't have other two guys scoring that much against OKC (only LMA), LeBron will have those guys in the 2nd round.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi was guarded this series by Tony Allen and Matt Barnes.

LeBron is guarded by a rookie

[sasaint]

He'll never go west. The East is too easy to make the Finals.

While you are right about the East, he is not going to any team that won't let him run the whole show. He and Pop could NEVER co-exist! :downspin:

[BillMc]

While you are right about the East, he is not going to any team that won't let him run the whole show. He and Pop could NEVER co-exist! :downspin:

Agree 100%

[GSH]

Lebron isn't the shooter that Kawhi is. He doesn't have the midrange

Kawhi has developed into a good mid-range shooter. The problem is, those are still sub-50% shots. LeBron took 46% of his shots from inside 3 feet this season, and made 72% of them. His ability to get to the rack is also the reason he gets more FTA's.

I agree that Kawhi's defense is better, and people can argue about whether that tips the scale in his favor. But you can't give the offensive edge to Kawhi until he gets better at getting to the rack. In the playoffs, that's priceless.



While you are right about the East, he is not going to any team that won't let him run the whole show. He and Pop could NEVER co-exist! :downspin:

Yeah, that's the issue of whether LeBron is a more desirable player to have on your team. There is definitely some downside to his ego and entourage. They don't have stats for that.

[dabom]

Maybe one porker stan gave it to Kawhi. This is the reason polls on ST are bias much. :lol

[dabom]

Kawhi has developed into a good mid-range shooter. The problem is, those are still sub-50% shots. LeBron took 46% of his shots from inside 3 feet this season, and made 72% of them. His ability to get to the rack is also the reason he gets more FTA's.

I agree that Kawhi's defense is better, and people can argue about whether that tips the scale in his favor. But you can't give the offensive edge to Kawhi until he gets better at getting to the rack. In the playoffs, that's priceless.




Yeah, that's the issue of whether LeBron is a more desirable player to have on your team. There is definitely some downside to his ego and entourage. They don't have stats for that.

And yet Kawhi has a way better TS% than Lebron. :lol

[YGWHI]

LeBron took 46% of his shots from inside 3 feet this season, and made 72% of them. His ability to get to the rack is also the reason he gets more FTA's.

I agree that Kawhi's defense is better, and people can argue about whether that tips the scale in his favor. But you can't give the offensive edge to Kawhi until he gets better at getting to the rack. In the playoffs, that's priceless.

Not all players need to be that aggressive attacking the rim, to be a prolific and efficient scorer.

Curry gets only 0.5 FTA's more than Kawhi and doesn't get to the rack very often.

Of course that Kawhi doesn't have Curry's shot, I'm just saying a player can find his offensive game in a variety of ways.

In Kawhi's case is being a post-up/mid range shooter, he can get better driving to the hoop but he won't force things to draw fouls, it's not the Spurs way.

Even in Parker best scoring season, one of the best in the league at attacking the rim, he had just 5 FTA, Kawhi this regular season, 4.6.

[GSH]

And yet Kawhi has a way better TS% than Lebron. :lol

Keep laughing, fuckwit. First of all his TS% isn't WAY better - .616 vs .588. Anyone who's watched as much basketball as you claim to have should know that the difference is from Kawhi's 3-pointers. What dumbshits like you don't understand is that 55% of Kawhi's 3-pointers miss, which gives teams like the Warriors the opportunity to get out and run. When LeBron is shooting those 3-foot shots, only 28% of them miss. That's almost exactly half the opportunities to get out and run.

In a 1-point playoff game, do you want Kawhi shooting a 45% shot, or LeBron shooting a 72% shot where he might draw a foul? Sadly, YOU might guess the wrong answer to that one.



Not all players need to be that aggressive attacking the rim, to be a prolific and efficient scorer.

Curry gets only 0.5 FTA's more than Kawhi and doesn't get to the rack very often.

Of course that Kawhi doesn't have Curry's shot, I'm just saying a player can find his offensive game in a variety of ways.


This isn't about Curry or Parker, it's about LeBron. And the one thing you can't get around is that 46% of LeBron's shots were from inside 3 feet, at a .722 FG% - PLUS all the FT's he got to shoot because of those shots. I'm not disrespecting Kawhi, but a guy who can consistently get to the rim and finish gets the team a LOT of easy, high-percentage points. And high-percentage shooting means fewer empty possessions, and fewer chances for the other team to run on the defensive rebounds.

Like it or not, 3-pointers are high-variance. You may score more points per possession, but you have a lot more possessions where you don't score. Like I said above, in a tight game, give me the high-percentage, low-variance shot every time. In any game against Golden State, give me the high-percentage, low-variance shot every time. Yes, there are a lot of ways to generate offense, but layups and dunks are better than the rest. One of the biggest benefits of shooting 3-pointers is that (hopefully) they stretch the defense, and allow you to get more layups and dunks.

[dabom]

Except he needs to be in position for those shots you stupid fuck. Or else he would shoot .80TS% all the fucking time. :lmao

[dabom]

Does this guy know basketball? :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

LeBrick being carried by Kyrie in the 2nd half two games in a row:wakeup

[TampaDude]

Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the NBA right now, and a Top 5 player overall this season.

LeBron is one of the best basketball players OF ALL TIME and a LOCK for the HOF.

Kawhi is still young, so he has plenty of time to build his resume.

[skulls138]

This isn't about Curry or Parker, it's about LeBron. And the one thing you can't get around is that 46% of LeBron's shots were from inside 3 feet, at a .722 FG% - PLUS all the FT's he got to shoot because of those shots. I'm not disrespecting Kawhi, but a guy who can consistently get to the rim and finish gets the team a LOT of easy, high-percentage points. And high-percentage shooting means fewer empty possessions, and fewer chances for the other team to run on the defensive rebounds.

Like it or not, 3-pointers are high-variance. You may score more points per possession, but you have a lot more possessions where you don't score. Like I said above, in a tight game, give me the high-percentage, low-variance shot every time. In any game against Golden State, give me the high-percentage, low-variance shot every time. Yes, there are a lot of ways to generate offense, but layups and dunks are better than the rest. One of the biggest benefits of shooting 3-pointers is that (hopefully) they stretch the defense, and allow you to get more layups and dunks.Good point and I think that easy shots made under the basket should be the next evolution of Kawhis game. Having said that how many of Lebrons layups are in halfcourt sets, the key to playoff basketball? Im sure the % goes down drastically.

Yes Lebron is the better basketball player but Kawhi makes up so much ground for being more fundamentally sound. Kawhi cant get to the rack as easily but he has a better post up game, the easiest way to score in the halfcourt set. And hes also a better 3 pt shooter and spot up 3 pt shooter.

[Sean Cagney]

Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the NBA right now, and a Top 5 player overall this season.

LeBron is one of the best basketball players OF ALL TIME and a LOCK for the HOF.

Kawhi is still young, so he has plenty of time to build his resume.
Facts.

[Brazil]

Career is obviously Lebron but THIS year, it's Kawhi.

Even when you look at scoring you can argue in favor of Kawhi tbh when you factor usage and minutes played. Per 36 their scoring is quite close, 23 vs. 25, then you notice Kawhi has a TS% at .616 and Lebron at .588 gap is not that unsignificant.

Now gap is wider in terms of playmakings of course Lebron also play like a PG and has a lot the ball in his hands which explain part of the assists numbers in his favor.

Now at this point of their career I take Kawhi on defense in a heartbeat: same rebounds per 36, advantage Kawhi on steals and then all defensive metrics are in favor of Kawhi.

[Obstructed_View]

I wouldn't say we have a lot of guys taking pressure off him, just LMA.

He's surrounded by excellent defenders, excellent passers, the best and deepest bench in the league, great three point shooters, incredibly experienced veteran teammates that support him, plus a system that's made to allow him to flourish in his spots. What makes his offense favorable in comparison to LBJ is the system and Kawhi's discipline in utilizing it, which is a plus, not a minus.

[urunobili]

Nope

[look_at_g_shred]

The only difference between the two is consistency. That's always been KL's downfall. Doing it on a nightly basis. So based on that, you have to go with LBJ.

[Uriel]

To all those who answered no to this question:

If given the chance, would you trade Kawhi for LeBron straight up right now?

[SpursFan86]

To all those who said answered no to this question:

If given the chance, would you trade Kawhi for LeBron straight up right now?

Of course not. Kawhi is 6-7 years younger :lol LeBron is already 31 and declining.

Besides, I don't think LeBron would fit in as well here. Parker/LeBron/LMA is a horrible fit :lol

[SpursBig3s]

Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the NBA right now, and a Top 5 player overall this season.

LeBron is one of the best basketball players OF ALL TIME and a LOCK for the HOF.

Kawhi is still young, so he has plenty of time to build his resume.


This is the correct answer. Why it took 4 pages to get here is beyond me, but /thread.

[HarlemHeat37]

Sorry for the trouble brah. I wanted to PM yiu but the mods disabled my profile and pms. I am 20% banned basically.

:lol it's cool, takes 2 secs..

[Uriel]

Of course not. Kawhi is 6-7 years younger :lol LeBron is already 31 and declining.

Besides, I don't think LeBron would fit in as well here. Parker/LeBron/LMA is a horrible fit :lol
I mean, just for the rest of this playoff run. Would you trade Kawhi for LeBron straight up for just this season?

[Obstructed_View]

This is the correct answer. Why it took 4 pages to get here is beyond me, but /thread.

Check post 20, scro.

[aal04]

Shooting is similar, defense is similar, off the ball Kawhi is better. On the ball, LBJ is far better.

The offense flows through LBJ for the cavs, for the Spurs it flows through and usually ends up in Kawhis hands.

LBJ is a far better franchise player. Kawhi is a far better cog in nearly every team.

[Kidd K]

LeBron is better now and Kawhi will likely never reach the level LeBron is currently at.

Kawhi may eventually be better. . .when LeBron declines.

Questions like that are going to make people shit on Kawhi rather than respect him tbh.

[benefactor]

To all those who answered no to this question:

If given the chance, would you trade Kawhi for LeBron straight up right now?
http://i.makeagif.com/media/8-19-2015/D8sxR1.gif

[south side spur]

To all those who answered no to this question:

If given the chance, would you trade Kawhi for LeBron straight up right now?
No fucking way. No one would unless they're an idiot. That's the question you should've asked in the 1st place. Back to the point, whether it's fair or not, Lebron gets all the calls while Kawhi gets shit on by the refs. Another reason, why Lebron is better NOW. This isn't a hypothetical none of this all things considered equal...because they're not in the eyes of the refs and that's all that matters.

[YGWHI]

He's surrounded by excellent defenders

Only two. Tim and Danny.

I didn't expect LMA would play that good on D, so glad to see his hustle/defensive effort, but I wouldn't say he's "excellent" (yet).



great three point shooters,
At this point of the season, I'm starting to think that "crazy" J.R., me-me Irving and even Love are better shooters than our guys

Of course, playing for Pop is a plus, but again, on the offensive end only LMA takes pressure off him...LeBron has at least two or three guys who can score 20 points a game. Kawhi doesn't.

[hater]

Bwawawawawawahhh :lmao . Of course Lebron >>>>> Kawhi

Kawhi has proven he cannot carry a team through any series

Spursfans are so adorable :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Only two. Tim and Danny.

I didn't expect LMA would play that good on D, so glad to see his hustle/defensive effort, but I wouldn't say he's "excellent" (yet).

Aldridge had a higher defensive rating than Green this year, and there were several other guys who were all in the top 20 in defensive rating this year, including Tony Parker.

[batman2883]

Leonard has the higher upside and he competes in the toughest conference in the league. Lebron dominates the weaker teams that actually pad his stats by staying in the East

[YGWHI]

Aldridge had a higher defensive rating than Green this year, and there were several other guys who were all in the top 20 in defensive rating this year, including Tony Parker.

I always say that LMA is a DREAM addition but he's not a better defender than Danny. I can't help but think that you're saying/believing Parker is "an excellent" defender"..."top 20" defender in the league.

Damn...:lol

[jimbo]

No tbh

ripping my old avi tbh

[jimbo]

and I could understand if you made this thread earlier in the year, but since the ASB Lebron has been doing really good. Shoot, it was just last finals that people were talking about giving him the finals MVP in a losing effort.

when you go to that many straight finals and still put up that level of performance without injury, you're invaluable.

[jimbo]

Aldridge had a higher defensive rating than Green this year, and there were several other guys who were all in the top 20 in defensive rating this year, including Tony Parker.

because defensive rating is primarily a team stat

[jimbo]

I wouldn't say we have a lot of guys taking pressure off him, just LMA.

LeBron has other two guys scoring over 20 ppg in 3 games this series, Kawhi...no one...zero...0.

LeBron averages 23 ppg in 41 mpg against Detroit, Kawhi 21.5 ppg in 33 mpg

Yep, we can say..."just the Grizz" but Kawhi won't have other two guys scoring that much against OKC (only LMA), LeBron will have those guys in the 2nd round.

Tbh the mental pressure of having to carry an entire fucking city on your back is much worse than anything Kawhi has to deal with. He couldn't do what Lebron did the last finals.

Or shit, maybe he could. Do autistic people even feel pressure?

[YGWHI]

Tbh the mental pressure of having to carry an entire fucking city on your back
:lmao

Wait...LeBron?
:lmao

Tell me how he looked in 2011 Finals?

I need superstars friends to win a ship!!

:lmao



Or shit, maybe he could. Do autistic people even feel pressure?

Who? Kawhi? Keep calling Spurs best player autistic...Of course, you're a true Spurs fan :lol

[YGWHI]

These trolls :lol

[jimbo]

:lmao

Wait...LeBron?
:lmao

Tell me how he looked in 2011 Finals?

I need superstars friends to win a ship!!

:lmao



Didn't he average like 18ppg? That's not much lower than what Kiwi averaged this season and people are calling him a top 5 offensive player. That's also ignoring Lebron's playmaking too..




Who? Kawhi? Keep calling Spurs best player autistic...:lol


I don't have a problem with Kiwi's autism. You sound like you're the one who does.

Tbh what kind of dude other than someone who's autistic makes their fucking hand their logo :lol

[dabom]

RC pic does not make you look smarter. :lmao

[jimbo]

https://vine.co/v/hBYKPEiMIrY

ah fuck, i forgot Kiwi has nerves of steel. Dude could definitely handle the pressure of being the chosen1

[jimbo]

RC pic does not make you look smarter. :lmao

it's supposed to make me look sexy you ignorant fuck

[dabom]

Broke the heatlettes. :lmao

[YGWHI]

Didn't he average like 18ppg? That's not much lower than what Kiwi averaged this season and people are calling him a top 5 offensive player. That's also ignoring Lebron's playmaking too..
Kawhi won the FMVP that year, LeBron was crying for his mom in 2011 Finals. BIG difference.



I don't have a problem with Kiwi's autism. You sound like you're the one who does.

Tbh what kind of dude other than someone who's autistic makes their fucking hand their logo :lol

No. I don't find it funny that people make jokes about autism. Not because of Kawhi, it's pretty obvious he doesn't have it, just because they're kids who really are autistic and their families suffer a lot.

It's not easy for a mom, dad, brothers to live with a kid who will never kiss, hug them, they will never know what's he wants or how he's feeling...

Trolling has some limits. Kids health is one.

[Dro210]

I don't have a problem with Kiwi's autism. You sound like you're the one who does.

Tbh what kind of dude other than someone who's autistic makes their fucking hand their logo :lol

Tbh, people who call every quiet, different, or disagreeable person they come across "autistic", spend way too much time on reddit and 4chan, and are probably closer to an actual autist than anyone they've accused. No offense.

And his name is Kawhi... Put some fucking respeck on it.

[jimbo]

Kawhi won the FMVP that year, LeBron was crying for his mom in those Finals. BIG difference.


Uh, Kawhi wasn't on the Spurs during the 2011 finals.

Lebron's stats were better than Kawhi's when Kawhi won finals MVP tbh.

28.2-7.8-4-2-.4 on .679 TS

vs

17.8-6.4-2-1.6-1.2 on .753 TS




No. I don't find it funny that people make jokes about autism. Not because of Kawhi, it's pretty obvious he doesn't have it, just because they're kids who really are autistic and their families suffer a lot.

It's not easy for a mom, dad, brothers to live with a kid who will never kiss, hug them, they will never know what's he wants or how he's feeling...

Even trolling has some limits. Kids health is one.

Damn, that is a shame for Kawhi's parents. You think he'll ever open up to them?

Real talk, they probably should have aborted their kid if they didn't want to deal with an autistic mess. Not every autist grows up to be an NBA superstar.

[jimbo]

Tbh, people who call every quiet, different, or disagreeable person they come across "autistic", spend way too much time on reddit and 4chan, and are probably closer to an actual autist than anyone they've accused. No offense.

And his name is Kawhi... Put some fucking respeck on it.

Duh. Haven't you ever heard? It takes one to know one.

[dabom]

Lebron stans. So easy to spot. Don't expose yourself so easily. :lmao

[jimbo]

Lebron stans. So easy to spot. Don't expose yourself so easily. :lmao

Way to go Sherlock. I literally have a picture of him in my signature.

[dabom]

Way to go Sherlock. I literally have a picture of him in my signature.

"My team. SA Spurs." Way to go faggot. :lmao

[jimbo]

"My team. SA Spurs." Way to go faggot. :lmao

:cry There are parents out there who have kids who are faggots. Don't joke about children's sexual orientations :cry

[jimbo]

"My team. SA Spurs." Way to go faggot. :lmao

and tbh I'm the last remaining San Antonio Heat fan

[YGWHI]

Lebron's stats were better than Kawhi's when Kawhi won finals MVP tbh.

28.2-7.8-4-2-.4 on .679 TS

vs

17.8-6.4-2-1.6-1.2 on .753 TS

So cute, you're making an effort...But Kawhi won.




Damn, that is a shame for Kawhi's parents. You think he'll ever open up to them?
Well, this tells more about your real personality than your trolling.

Behind a troll, there is always a poor guy who wants to say what the troll is saying but he can't...because he's too afraid of what other people would think about him.

You're the type of guy who calls kids retarded and make fun of their families pain...Basically, you're a coward.

[dabom]

and tbh I'm the last remaining San Antonio Heat fan

Last San Antonio Heat Lebron fan, Faggot. :lmao

[jimbo]

So cute, you're making an effort...But Kawhi won.



Lebron to Kiwi ":lobt2::lobt2: 2 rings faggot"





Well, this tells more about your real personality than your trolling.

Behind a troll, there is always a poor guy who wants to say what the troll is saying but he can't...because he's too afraid of what other people would think about him.

Basically, you're a coward.

The autists control the media, they control the banks, they control the government. Can you imagine what would happen to me if I rallied against them in real life?

No. The internet is my only save haven.

[jimbo]

Last San Antonio Heat Lebron fan, Faggot. :lmao

Tbh I don't even really like him after he left the Heat.

I just gotta put an end to all this Kiwi dickslobbering. Grown men sucking off an autistic child. Disgusting.

[Dro210]

:cry There are parents out there who have kids who are faggots. Don't joke about children's sexual orientations :cry

:lol Faggots don't get special treatment... Autism isn't a choice, tbh

[dabom]

Tbh I don't even really like him after he left the Heat.

I just gotta put an end to all this Kiwi dickslobbering. Grown men sucking off an autistic child. Disgusting.


Lebron stans. So easy to spot. Don't expose yourself so easily. :lmao


Way to go Sherlock. I literally have a picture of him in my signature.

Sorry bro. You still a Lebron slurper. :lmao

[jimbo]

:lol Faggots don't get special treatment... Autism isn't a choice, tbh

The parents made the choice to not abort the autist. Faggots don't get that option.

[jimbo]

Sorry bro. You still a Lebron slurper. :lmao

I considered myself a Lebron stan when I made this signature a couple years ago. I don't anymore.

I'd give him a hand job at most.

[dabom]

I considered myself a Lebron stan when I made this signature a couple years ago. I don't anymore.

I'd give him a hand job at most.
Maybe it's time for an update. :tu

[jimbo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYacHMbL-zM

You insensitive fucks should really watch this. It tells me more about y'alls real personality that you'd really call people faggots.

[jimbo]

Maybe it's time for an update. :tu

It reminds me of good times :cry:

[YGWHI]

The internet is my only save haven.
Another true thing about you.

Of course internet is the only place you can pretend to have a life.

It's funny, more you post, more we know about YOU, not the troll.

[313]

Or shit, maybe he could. Do autistic people even feel pressure?
:lmao

why isn't this guy bolded

[jimbo]

Another true thing about you.

Of course internet is the only place you can pretend to have a life.

It's funny, more you post, more we know about YOU, not the troll.

You got me. I too put a picture of my hand on my shirt and wear it around.

http://funhandprintartblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/handy-little-helper-handprint-t-shirt.jpg

Here's one I made last week. Momma loved her little helper :cat

[jimbo]

and I know what you're up to mister, but I blocked out my name on my shirt. There's no way that are you going to know my name. Not this time!

[313]

The way Kawhi choked that free throw in 2013 he must not be that autistic

[jimbo]

The way Kawhi choked that free throw in 2013 he must not be that autistic

Yeah it's too bad. He could have been an unstoppable juggernaut. Can you imagine if he was a full blown autist? League would be fucked...

http://www.slugmag.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/1436816431_2.jpg

Those red autistic eyes would be fucking SCARY

[jimbo]

on the real, don't you faggots have jobs? how are you able to post at 3 am every day?

I gotta wake up for work in 4 hours. I'll play with y'all later tomorrow

[YGWHI]

You got me. I too put a picture of my hand on my shirt and wear it around.

http://funhandprintartblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/handy-little-helper-handprint-t-shirt.jpg

Here's one I made last week. Momma loved her little helper :cat

2009? Nah :lol

But it's not curious that you choose that pic and talk about your mom.

Among all of pics on internet, you choose one with a "momma" and hands.

[YGWHI]

I gotta wake up for work in 4 hours.
Not really. There is a reason why you will vote for Trump.

[spurraider21]

always easy to tell who is melting down by looking at who has the most posts in the thread

[kuato]

Kawhi is better for the spurs game style, yes.

[TheGreatYacht]

The way Kawhi choked that free throw in 2013 he must not be that autistic
Elite poster doin elite poster stuff, per par :tu

[jimbo]

2009? Nah :lol

But it's not curious that you choose that pic and talk about your mom.

Among all of pics on internet, you choose one with a "momma" and hands.

2009. That was a smokescreen designed to throw internet bullies off. Looks like it worked.



Not really. There is a reason why you will vote for Trump.

Because I have a job?

[313]

Elite poster doin elite poster stuff, per par :tu
:tu

[elemento]

No he isn't. Still love him on my team though.

[TD 21]

If you're talking about who you'd rather have going forward, it's clearly Kawhi considering their age gap. But in terms of who's the better player now, it's fairly comfortably LeBron still. As others have alluded to, Kawhi just hasn't shown the consistency of LeBron. If I have to pick between having LeBron or Kawhi for one playoff run right now, I'm going with LeBron.

Regardless, the fact that this is even remotely a debate is pretty incredible and shows how lucky we've gotten with Kawhi.



Kawhi is definitely up there LeBron when it comes to isolation/posting up...and he's a much better spot-up shooter.

However, it's LeBron's ability to run an offense, break down the defense, get to the rim, and create for others that separates him from Kawhi. While Kawhi shows glimpses of being able to do those things, he doesn't do them nearly as consistently as LeBron. And while being an elite post-up/isolation player is great, I don't think those things are as valuable as penetration, forcing rotations, and then having GOAT-tier court vision and the ability to create for others. LeBron typically commands much more attention than Kawhi does, and that opens up things for others even more. That's not to say Kawhi never gets double teamed or that teams never have to change their defense to try stopping him...but those things certainly don't happen to the extent you see with LeBron.

:tu

As much as I can't stand him, I'd still rank Durant higher too. Being able to make plays for others and get to the line at a high rate are critical skills.

[Galileo]

Just an FYI: In round one, Kawhi had a PER of 35.5 and .44 wins shares per 48 minutes. That's insane. Good luck Durantula.

[dabom]

Just an FYI: In round one, Kawhi had a PER of 35.5 and .44 wins shares per 48 minutes. That's insane. Good luck Durantula.

I saw this numbers after game 3. Sick tbh.

[YGWHI]

That was a smokescreen designed to throw internet bullies off.
There is something very clear in your choice of "Momma" and "hands", your Oedipus complex.


Because I have a job?
No, because you HATE your job. You think your potential is severely underestimated by society, you deserve a better job, right?

Also, you hate autistic kids because you say they get special treatments, that's your sick way to say you hate the minorities. You falsely claim that minority groups receive special treatment and benefits trying to rise people to hate them...

It's pretty obvious that you're a Trump guy.

[BillMc]

I've gotta say this thread has taken some unexpected directions rather than simply comparing the basketball skills of Kawhi Leonard and LeBron James.

[jimbo]

There is something very clear in your choice of "Momma" and "hands", your Oedipus complex.


No, because you HATE your job. You think your potential is severely underestimated by society, you deserve a better job, right?

Also, you hate autistic kids because you say they get special treatments, that's your sick way to say you hate the minorities. You falsely claim that minority groups receive special treatment and benefits trying to rise people to hate them...

It's pretty obvious that you're a Trump guy.

Lmao, and you say I'm the one melting down.

I've managed to make you say I hate minorities and claim I have an Oedipus complex. :downspin:

[YGWHI]

I've managed to make you say I hate minorities and claim I have an Oedipus complex. :downspin:
Managed? You're that guy, you can't hide your true feelings from yourself.

Remember little troll what you say about autistic kids and their families next time when you get harm back. Just let Karma go to work.

[NameLess Scrub]

Uff this is escalating quickly.

Anyway, No. Lebron is a better individual player than Kawhi. I'm not even sure the question is legit.

It is very possible he will be when both careers are over.
Lebron is a playmaker and can carry his team consistently, even if he needs the usual star treatment from the refs.
Even if he's kind of a bad shooter.

Kawhi still needs some protection from the Spurs system and can't take over games consistently. He can't impose his will like Lebron can.

I don't like Lebron though.

So in any case, I'd take Kawhi. But this thread is not about that.
It's about who the better player is and is still Lebron.

[z0sa]

LeBron.

[K...]

Hmm a few thoughts. Lets go series by series and ask who would be better leb or kaw?

Griz-irrelevant
OKC....Kawhi for defense. Lebron doesn't do anything against this team thats special. He could punish OKC for sure and he'd absolutely destroy durant but the option to mute durant or slow westbrook with kawhi is too valuable

CLippers (at full strength)..Lebron....100%. No real SF to defend, and lebron would not get punked by mat barnes in a gm7

GS- KAwhi....this is a toss up, but i don't see lebron being able to out shoot a healthy curry. Maybe if he drove hard and fouled out the GS defenders we could slow the pace and match efficiency. But like OKC kahwi can check curry although that isn't his job. This one is hard.

[Gagnrath]

Is a GM you have to take Leonard to be on your team under contract; He is still ascendant and James has started his downswing. As is said earlier.



As for the rest. Jimbo is a socially maladjusted toll and attention whoring asshole, which is fine they are entertaining on internet forums when properly moderated. (Not that spurstalk has moderators anymore).

As for weather or not Leonard is autistic. I seriously doubt it. First autism is a wide ranging spectrum of what appear to be related mental disorders and handicaps. They are associated with how a brain interprets and deals with sensory stimulus and processing. Because of a sensitivity to stimulation most people with an autism spectrum disorder try to avoid loud rapidly changing environments and can be overwhelming to them. Last I checked the court in an NBA arena is exactly what most autistic people try to avoid. Because interpersonal communication is full of different cues and a tendency to distraction by nearly anything else going on many autism affected people do poorly socially.

As for Jimbos other comments, while autism probably does have genetic links as it seems to run in families no specific individual markers have been found to date, let alone 20+ years ago. The idea of an en uteri test and ending a pregnancy for possible autism is fairly far in the future if at all. Next Autism is not mental retardation; Most people who are affected with an autism spectrum disorder are of normal intelligence. Some research seems to show that many mild forms of autism are basically just compensated for by intelligence, with the disorder coming off as eccentricity, distractedness, or aloofness. More severe forms tend to overwhelm the sufferer and can be treated with a controlled environment and therapy. Once again a person who has greater intelligence and or will is more likely to be responsive to therapy. But please by all means jimbo continue to be bigoted and ignorant.

[RD2191]

LeBron is a walking finals ticket

Kawhi still needs to prove he can lead a team like LeBron has already proven (for more than part of a season with help, or one game with help). LeBron is and always has been Cleveland all by himself. Sadly on the Heat super team, many times he was that whole team as well.

Lol. Leading shit teams to the finals out east isn't saying much. I'm sure Kawhi could easily take a team to the finals out east. People underestimate how shitty the east has been for most of lbjs career. This nigga was playing teams with losing records in the semis.

[Sean Cagney]

Id take Kawhi.

Right now at his age and ceiling you bet, if Lebron was younger though and I am starting a team that would be tough. Lebron is older now and is slowly declining with his game, so right now I would definitely take Kawhi Leonard on the team.

[jimbo]

:lol

[jimbo]

Hmm a few thoughts. Lets go series by series and ask who would be better leb or kaw?

Griz-irrelevant
OKC....Kawhi for defense. Lebron doesn't do anything against this team thats special. He could punish OKC for sure and he'd absolutely destroy durant but the option to mute durant or slow westbrook with kawhi is too valuable

CLippers (at full strength)..Lebron....100%. No real SF to defend, and lebron would not get punked by mat barnes in a gm7

GS- KAwhi....this is a toss up, but i don't see lebron being able to out shoot a healthy curry. Maybe if he drove hard and fouled out the GS defenders we could slow the pace and match efficiency. But like OKC kahwi can check curry although that isn't his job. This one is hard.

Disagree. Durant becomes a mental midget when faced against Lebron. Actually I'm pretty sure he played pretty well in the 2012 finals, but for whatever reason the Thunder never beat whatever team Lebron is on.

[Uriel]

James is gaining traction on Leonard in the poll. It's nearly dead even now.

[phxspurfan]

Lol. Leading shit teams to the finals out east isn't saying much. I'm sure Kawhi could easily take a team to the finals out east. People underestimate how shitty the east has been for most of lbjs career. This nigga was playing teams with losing records in the semis.

Pistons and Celtics were pretty good back then

[spursistan]

I love Kawhi, but that's why he isn't yet better than Lebron...that thing is called consistency..

Lebron has been doing for near a decade, and still..the night-in night-out 24/7/3 is something that's still beyond Kawhi reach..Hope, he gets there soon..

[313]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[EVAY]

Uff this is escalating quickly.

Anyway, No. Lebron is a better individual player than Kawhi. I'm not even sure the question is legit.

It is very possible he will be when both careers are over.
Lebron is a playmaker and can carry his team consistently, even if he needs the usual star treatment from the refs.
Even if he's kind of a bad shooter.

Kawhi still needs some protection from the Spurs system and can't take over games consistently. He can't impose his will like Lebron can.

I don't like Lebron though.

So in any case, I'd take Kawhi. But this thread is not about that.
It's about who the better player is and is still Lebron.

That is the fair objective position. But I would still prefer Kawhi because he doesn't have to get over himself. LeBron has never done that.

[NameLess Scrub]

That is the fair objective position. But I would still prefer Kawhi because he doesn't have to get over himself. LeBron has never done that.


Agree

[kobyz]

This forum will never learn how to stay humble and not bring even more bad karma...

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Bahahaha

[jimbo]

:lmao

Wait...LeBron?
:lmao

Tell me how he looked in 2011 Finals?

I need superstars friends to win a ship!!

:lmao




Who? Kawhi? Keep calling Spurs best player autistic...Of course, you're a true Spurs fan :lol

:wakeup

[TheGreatYacht]

Close this fucking thread man. Of course not.

[spursistan]

Yeah, let's cut the crap :lol...regular season means shit..he has yet to have consecutive dominant series against elite team from tip to last buzzer..Need to work more on his game (dribble drive/handles/court vision) and PATFO will have to provide him more help on the perimeter..

[tholdren]

Thread = 0/10000000000000000

[SuperCam]

king james shits on the thunder and durbeta each year while kiwi is getting bent over

9-23 and -12 in an elimination game smh, this faggot ass kawhiso garbage is good for a 1st or 2nd round exit each year :bang

[LongtimeSpursFan]

:lol

This thread. Comparing these two players is not even close. I love Kawhi and dislike LeBron but LeBron has taken his team to 6 straight NBA Finals appearances.

[tholdren]

no

[Hoops Czar]

Lol. Leading shit teams to the finals out east isn't saying much. I'm sure Kawhi could easily take a team to the finals out east. People underestimate how shitty the east has been for most of lbjs career. This nigga was playing teams with losing records in the semis.

Lebron has taken lottery teams to the NBA Finals while Leonard has yet to lead a 55+ win team with quadruple the talent past the second round. And the only team the Spurs managed to beat in the playoffs with Kiwi as the #1 option was the woeful Grizzlies, who might in fact go down as the worst playoff team in NBA history.

[Hoops Czar]

James is gaining traction on Leonard in the poll. It's nearly dead even now.

You mean Leonard was actually leading the poll? :lmao

:king >>>>>>>>:claw

[tholdren]

:lol

This thread. Comparing these two players is not even close. I love Kawhi and dislike LeBron but LeBron has taken his team to 6 straight NBA Finals appearances.
KL - missed ft cost 2013
KL - gifted 2014 fmvp

LBJ - mom doinked by ugliest dude in nba.

[TheGreatYacht]

Sheesh. It's not even close.

Of course Lebron. Compare Leonard and Butler instead

[r0drig0lac]

:lol

This thread. Comparing these two players is not even close. I love Kawhi and dislike LeBron but LeBron has taken his team to 6 straight NBA Finals appearances.

spursfans

[Sean Cagney]

Sheesh. It's not even close.

Of course Lebron. Compare Leonard and Butler instead

Which Butler? Caron in his prime or? Leonard has a higher ceiling and will be a lot better when it's all said and done IMO but I see your point on Lebron being on another level. He has a ways to go to compare to Lebron.

[spursistan]

Damn these homer picks :lol..

not even close if we go by playoffs as the real nba basketball...

[Keepin' it real]

Which Butler?

Jackie

[tbdog]

Lebron, with 2 godlike performances. One more to give.

[TheGreatYacht]

Which Butler? Caron in his prime or? Leonard has a higher ceiling and will be a lot better when it's all said and done IMO but I see your point on Lebron being on another level. He has a ways to go to compare to Lebron.
Rasual Butler tbh IMO

[Sean Cagney]

Rasual Butler tbh IMO

I think Kawhi might be a little better than him, possibly....

[TheGreatYacht]

I think Kawhi might be a little better than him, possibly....
Both are good role players to have your team though don't get me wrong :tu

[dabom]

Kawhi shit on Lebron last playoffs they played. 2 years ago in Lebrons prime. He'd destroy him today. :lmao

[jermaine]

Defensively Kawhi is waaaaaaay better... Shooting, Kawhi is waaaaay better... Running the team an being the best on the court... Labrick is miles on top of miles ahead of Kawhi. Kawhi needs to watch Labrick tapes to see how to run his team.

[dabom]

Kawhi winning ships at age 23. > Lebald. :lmao

[szkorhetz]

We would have rang with LBJ instead of Leonard, TBH.

[benefactor]

:lol Uriel

[SpursFan86]

:lol

[daslicer]

Defensively Kawhi is waaaaaaay better... Shooting, Kawhi is waaaaay better... Running the team an being the best on the court... Labrick is miles on top of miles ahead of Kawhi. Kawhi needs to watch Labrick tapes to see how to run his team.

Lebron has a higher basketball IQ then Kawhi and has better ball handling skills, along with passing. I feel those 3 skills can't be learned at this stage of Kawhi's development. Also Lebron even at his his age is still more athletic than Kawhi.

[wildbill2u]

If Kwahi had been dropping 40+ points a game in the playoffs after getting behind in games against the Thunder, we could be champs.

[Seventyniner]

Lebron has a higher basketball IQ then Kawhi and has better ball handling skills, along with passing. I feel those 3 skills can't be learned at this stage of Kawhi's development. Also Lebron even at his his age is still more athletic than Kawhi.

And Kawhi won the $200 million genetic Powerball while LeBron won the $1.5 billion version.

[Spurtacular]

Lebron, with 2 godlike performances. One more to give.

Cos the rest the team is sh**. Even Kyrie isn't as good as people want to think. Warriors letting this creampuff team take em to seven! :lmao

[Spurtacular]

If Kwahi had been dropping 40+ points a game in the playoffs after getting behind in games against the Thunder, we could be champs.

[phxspurfan]

trololololo this question now

[GSH]

LeBron played 46:49 in Game 7 of the Finals. Until Pop takes the training wheels off Kawhi, it doesn't matter how good he is.

The Cavs needed their best player on the floor to carry them to a Championship. If Kawhi is "the guy" for SA, he needs to be on the floor. Either Pop doesn't really believe in Kawhi, or he really does need to go. Watching LeBron play basically the whole game tonight convinced me of that.

[SAGirl]

LeBron played 46:49 in Game 7 of the Finals. Until Pop takes the training wheels off Kawhi, it doesn't matter how good he is.

The Cavs needed their best player on the floor to carry them to a Championship. If Kawhi is "the guy" for SA, he needs to be on the floor. Either Pop doesn't really believe in Kawhi, or he really does need to go. Watching LeBron play basically the whole game tonight convinced me of that.
He's won championships trusting Manu and the bench. I think he needs to open his eyes that is no more. Father time has taken too much away from Manu at this point and Mills is not that guy.

We also need a playmaker, Kawhi is not one and neither is Aldridge.

[Hoops Czar]

He's won championships trusting Manu and the bench. I think he needs to open his eyes that is no more. Father time has taken too much away from Manu at this point and Mills is not that guy.

We also need a playmaker, Kawhi is not one and neither is Aldridge.

:wow Truthbomb from SAGIRL?

[SAGirl]

:wow Truthbomb from SAGIRL?
I am not one normally to get on players case, but a guy who handles the ball as much as he does lately and only averaged 2.5 assists or whatever he did is not a playmaker. Watch Anderson who is played off the ball and rarely passed to average more assists per 36. I can call it like it is.

[dabom]

Fathead can't even finish a fastbreak without getting blocked by a PG. :lmao

[Hoops Czar]

I am not one normally to get on players case, but a guy who handles the ball as much as he does lately and only averaged 2.5 assists or whatever he did is not a playmaker. Watch Anderson who is played off the ball and rarely passed to average more assists per 36. I can call it like it is.

You're right. From an offensive standpoint, Kawhi can make plays but, he's not a playmaker in the sense that he doesn't make the players around him better.

[SAGirl]

You're right. From an offensive standpoint, Kawhi can make plays but, he's not a playmaker in the sense that he doesn't make the players around him better.
Nor is he looking to pass.He's like Tony in that regard. They are both scorers who Pop molded into playmakers. I wouldn't say Kawhi is selfish, just that part of the game really is a talent. Ppl get on Draymonds case for example. If he wasn't a good/elite,passer he wouldn't be nearly as helpful as he is. Passing is as much a talent as shooting. You can teach guys to shoot but only some guys will truly be elite. You also can show guys film and where help is coming from and so forth, but some guys have that and more naturally. Kawhi is a good enough passer and I think he will get better but he's a much better scorer than he will ever be a passer. Therefore if you are Pop, and you are thinking of guys to complement Kawhi and LMA, playmakers is a priority.

Who they are down the road we don't know, but Manu is about to retire and Boris is looking like he has one foot out the door soon. Much as ppl dismiss him Kyle best asset is passing, finding guys in scoring position. The other guys Pop h as brought also had passing skill in JSimms. We obviously need someone with more talent. Maybe the draft, maybe FA. But the third wheel to their cart has to be a playmaker.

[Hoops Czar]

Nor is he looking to pass.He's like Tony in that regard. They are both scorers who Pop molded into playmakers. I wouldn't say Kawhi is selfish, just that part of the game really is a talent. Ppl get on Draymonds case for example. If he wasn't a good/elite,passer he wouldn't be nearly as helpful as he is. Passing is as much a talent as shooting. You can teach guys to shoot but only some guys will truly be elite. You also can show guys film and where help is coming from and so forth, but some guys have that and more naturally. Kawhi is a good enough passer and I think he will get better but he's a much better scorer than he will ever be a passer. Therefore if you are Pop, and you are thinking of guys to complement Kawhi and LMA, playmakers is a priority.

Who they are down the road we don't know, but Manu is about to retire and Boris is looking like he has one foot out the door soon. Much as ppl dismiss him Kyle best asset is passing, finding guys in scoring position. The other guys Pop h as brought also had passing skill in JSimms. We obviously need someone with more talent. Maybe the draft, maybe FA. But the third wheel to their cart has to be a playmaker.

Which is why the Spurs should be in search of penetrating guards that can break down a defense and create easy scoring opportunities. One of the biggest drawbacks of Kawhi and the ISO game is when Leonard catches the ball with 15 on the shot clock, he holds the ball for 5 seconds, then puts the ball on the floor, does his customary dance to draw closer to the paint and with 5 on the shot clock, he realizes a shot has to go up. This results in one of three things... 1.) Kawhi forces up a bad shot 2.) Kawhi passes out to a teammate who ends up taking a forced three 3.) Shot clock violation.

The Spurs desperately need to bring back the motion offense. Obviously, you don't pass on a player of Durant's caliber if he's available but, I don't see him as the best fit next to LMA and Leonard. That would leave 4 ISO players in the starting lineup, possibly 5 depending on who the Spurs find to play Center. The Spurs don't need the best players to return to championship form. They just need 10 guys that play as a unit and SHARE the basketball. This year, too much one on one, not enough spacing, very little penetration, and mostly mid-range jump shots doomed the Spurs.

Leonard is a good offensive player and he's still improving but, I don't think he'll ever be a playmaker.

[SAGirl]

Which is why the Spurs should be in search of penetrating guards that can break down a defense and create easy scoring opportunities. One of the biggest drawbacks of Kawhi and the ISO game is when Leonard catches the ball with 15 on the shot clock, he holds the ball for 5 seconds, then puts the ball on the floor, does his customary dance to draw closer to the paint and with 5 on the shot clock, he realizes a shot has to go up. This results in one of three things... 1.) Kawhi forces up a bad shot 2.) Kawhi passes out to a teammate who ends up taking a forced three 3.) Shot clock violation.

The Spurs desperately need to bring back the motion offense. Obviously, you don't pass on a player of Durant's caliber if he's available but, I don't see him as the best fit next to LMA and Leonard. That would leave 4 ISO players in the starting lineup, possibly 5 depending on who the Spurs find to play Center. The Spurs don't need the best players to return to championship form. They just need 10 guys that play as a unit and SHARE the basketball. This year, too much one on one, not enough spacing, very little penetration, and mostly mid-range jump shots doomed the Spurs.

Leonard is a good offensive player and he's still improving but, I don't think he'll ever be a playmaker.
I agree completely. I also agree that Durant isn't the best fit. Our 3 best players being all forwards whose ideal positions all overlap, while we have no backcourt is a recipe for disaster. Too many skills, between liking the midrange, the post up and their ideal shooting spots overlap. It would be a case of diminishing returns. Lamarcus would have to play center most of the time and while he's improved defensively, he's not really a center, nor is he a defensive forward like Draymond, Ibaka etc.

Look at the Cavs, in reality Tristan provides much more value to them than Love bc he fills what they needed better and whether LeBron likes it or not his ideal spot overlaps with Love a lot.

We need a big to proved defense and rebounding and a guard who can attack off the dribble and has court vision. Durant is neither of these things. I don't think we'd even be favorites adding him, while we remain super weak in the backcourt.

[spurraider21]

:lmao holy shit

[Ice009]

With Kevin Durant, I really believe he can improve in 2 areas of his game. Defense and his playmaking. I think he has potential as a very good playmaker for others, but he's never really taken in to the next level. That's something I'd bring up if I was the Spurs. I'd tell him that's an area they believe he can improve on and that the Spurs can give hin that opportunity because they don't have a ball dominant PG. Does he want the challenge? Even if you guys don't agree, I think he's got much more potential that both Kawhi and LeMarcus in regards to playmaking.

[skulls138]

I still say Kawhi's best offensive weapon is his 3 pt shot. Hes good at it, it promotes ball movement and it saves on energy, which he needs to do considering how much of it he expends playing D and rebounding. Have LMA play more down low and Kawhi up high with catch and shoot and less medium range game from both. If LMA could learn to play down low, which I think he can just doesnt want to, and pass out of the double team, or drive from the post and pass it out, that would get the ball moving to the open shooter and that would cut the need for a playmaker. Still need a playmaker but we also just need to gear our game back to passing the ball as a team.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I still say Kawhi's best offensive weapon is his 3 pt shot. Hes good at it, it promotes ball movement and it saves on energy, which he needs to do considering how much of it he expends playing D and rebounding. Have LMA play more down low and Kawhi up high with catch and shoot and less medium range game from both. If LMA could learn to play down low, which I think he can just doesnt want to, and pass out of the double team, or drive from the post and pass it out, that would get the ball moving to the open shooter and that would cut the need for a playmaker. Still need a playmaker but we also just need to gear our game back to passing the ball as a team.

LMA didn't seem comfortable in the low post. So playing him there doesn't maximise his offensive potential. He's a good shooter, and in his comfort zone, he is deadly.

Pau Gasol offers the needed low post scoring and passing, but he may get exposed in pick and rolls.

The Spurs did try to sign Gustavo Ayon, a crafty low post scorer, back in 2014 in order to shore up the big men depth. His contract with Real Madrid expires around September this year if I'm not mistaken, so don't be surprised if PATFO tries that route again.

There is a center in the draft with the necessary tools to be an effective low post and even roll option (especially in today's NBA), but he comes with red flags. Besides, the team doesn't have a 2nd round pick to take a punt on AJ Hammons.

Looking at all the low post options through either the draft or free agency, Pau Gasol is probably the safest bet if PATFO are keen to re-establish that as part of the team's offensive repertoire.

[r0drig0lac]

He's won championships trusting Manu and the bench. I think he needs to open his eyes that is no more. Father time has taken too much away from Manu at this point and Mills is not that guy.

We also need a playmaker, Kawhi is not one and neither is Aldridge.
let's just say that without Gino, do not have a player of this kind in the squad, and leave it at that ...

ps: still like to see Kyle as pg for second unit (this will not happen though)

[Snaq O'Meal]

let's just say that without Gino, do not have a player of this kind in the squad, and leave it at that ...

ps: still like to see Kyle as pg for second unit (this will not happen though)

Perhaps there's a method to Pop's madness of playing Kyle off the ball. By getting in the reps to shoot, Kyle will be more effective when he's eventually moved to his natural position at point.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol Yeah ... no.

[skulls138]

LMA didn't seem comfortable in the low post. So playing him there doesn't maximise his offensive potential. He's a good shooter, and in his comfort zone, he is deadly.Yes he does look uncomfortable doing it but Ive seen him be good at it. Its a sign of nervousness that he needs to deal with. Lebron is like that, something he overcame. When Lebron gets nervous he holds the ball, holds the ball....and then chucks it from behind the three point line. Not saying LMA should abandon his shot, far from it, Im talking about ratio, he needs to power it inside more. It will open the offense too.

[resistanze]

http://i65.tinypic.com/o09kkg.jpg

[resistanze]

Kawhi is a beast but...Jesus Homer Christ.

[dabom]

Toronto fans talking like they know basketball. :lmao

[K...]

Tbh I only voted for kawhi so that I could tell the kawhi fan boys that I was on their side.

Also at the time of the pole, LeBron was not looking great. You had 2014 and 2015 finals.

Also I am a LeBron hater. Not a irrational one, but in the short run I'll always take the least pro LeBron statement available

[dabom]

Tbh I only voted for kawhi so that I could tell the kawhi fan boys that I was on their side.

Also at the time of the pole, LeBron was not looking great. You had 2014 and 2015 finals.

Also I am a LeBron hater. Not a irrational one, but in the short run I'll always take the least pro LeBron statement available

Does Lebron outplay Kawhi if he was on the Warriors team for Curry?

[SpursFan86]

One thing this series showed is that the gap between LeBron/Kawhi's defense isn't as big as people make it out to be. Kawhi is the better defender, but when LeBron is locked in and focused (which he is come playoff time, especially in big games), he's not far behind. It's crazy how many huge plays LeBron made defensively over course of that series.

Sorry, but this really isn't a debate. You could maybe argue Kawhi had a more impressive regular season, but if you're talking about who the better player is, it's LeBron by a comfortable margin. Hopefully Kawhi will close that gap next season :toast

[resistanze]

Toronto fans talking like they know basketball. :lmao

Just stop it, tbh. You're known more for your emoticons than your horrid takes...

[TheGreatYacht]

Just stop it, tbh. You're known more for your emoticons than your horrid takes...
:lol

[spursistan]

One thing this series showed is that the gap between LeBron/Kawhi's defense isn't as big as people make it out to be. Kawhi is the better defender, but when LeBron is locked in and focused (which he is come playoff time, especially in big games), he's not far behind. It's crazy how many huge plays LeBron made defensively over course of that series.

Sorry, but this really isn't a debate. You could maybe argue Kawhi had a more impressive regular season, but if you're talking about who the better player is, it's LeBron by a comfortable margin. Hopefully Kawhi will close that gap next season :toast

I love Kawhi but this was an embarrassing homer poll,tbh :lol...

True, our team needs reinforcement, but it wasn't like we were trotting out total scrubs alongside him..Kawhi is nowhere near Lebron ability to impact the game by making teammates better especially when it comes to play-making..His ballhandling is middling at best and he is still not mentally geared yet to take over these elimination games (LBJ won 8 of his last 9 submitting otherworldly stat line in all)..

Also another factor that separates them is the apparent gulf in athletic/physical conditioning between the two.. a 32 yo Lebron with gigantic mileage ability to play 43-47 minuets in this type of games is simply mind-boggling....Pop might as well ram up Kawhi reg season minutes in 2017 to get him prepared for the playoff load ..

[dabom]

Someone doesn't think a 25 year old can't play 42 mins a game in the playoffs is a dumbass.

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

Feels good to be one of the ones that voted in favor of the Kang back when this was first created, tbh...

[YGWHI]

One of the biggest drawbacks of Kawhi and the ISO game is when Leonard catches the ball with 15 on the shot clock, he holds the ball for 5 seconds, then puts the ball on the floor, does his customary dance to draw closer to the paint and with 5 on the shot clock, he realizes a shot has to go up. This results in one of three things... 1.) Kawhi forces up a bad shot 2.) Kawhi passes out to a teammate who ends up taking a forced three 3.) Shot clock violation.
Since Kawhi was #2 on Iso's in the league until the last two months of the regular season, and over 88 percentile in points per possession on those plays, I'd say there is a four thing... 4.) He makes the bucket.

The Warriors took those crazy 3's that we'd call bad shots during the whole season and played in the Finals for second consecutive season...Kyrie won the ship with his 3 playing Iso...We lost against an Iso team like the Thunder, and other of those teams won the title this season.

I wouldn't say that's the way, or the Spurs' way. I'm just saying if you have a player who is that good on Iso's, you should take advantage of that.

But I'd love to see more creative plays from Pop instead of designing iso plays ran for him the whole game.

Kawhi runs the floor well and has good timing on cuts, why not find Kawhi cutting to the rim?

If Kawhi would play for the Cavs/Dubs/Clips we would see lobs for him in every game...It's that hard to give him easy points?

How many times in a game we watch they setting screens for him to force a switch and then exploit the matchup?