Official 2016 Spurs Offseason Thread

[coachmac87]

For those familiar with him, any predictions on whether or not Bertan's nice looking quick release on 3 will translate to NBA? Some of his highlights just look awesome.

Catch and shoot looks automatic. Question is can he put the ball on the ground with a 1-2 dribble pull up...

That changes everything if he can. Danny Green still can't do that and he's been in the league over 5yrs

[Chinook]

Well, only $75k is guaranteed? Does he have the same contract as Forbes?

Found elsewhere, "The Spurs went a bit further, giving Forbes a one-year contract. If he makes their roster in training camp, he’ll earn the rookie minimum salary, around $543,000. "

That source is almost certainly wrong. Arcidiacono has a normal contract given his status. I fully expect Forbes to have a similar one.

[look_at_g_shred]

Understood. Clearly I am completely ignorant on fishes. :lol
Explain the girl part tho

[LakerHater]

Lineup as of 7/14

PG - Parker, Mills, Murray
SG - Green, Simmons, Forbes
SF - Leonard, Ginobili, Archiacando
PF - Gasol, Anderson, Bertans
C - Aldridge, Dedman, ??

Losses:
PG - Miller
SG - Martin
PF - Duncan, West, Diaw, Bonner
C - MarjanovichYa got guys all over the place!

[ceperez]

That source is almost certainly wrong. Arcidiacono has a normal contract given his status. I fully expect Forbes to have a similar one.

How do you know it is wrong?

[SAGirl]

For those familiar with him, any predictions on whether or not Bertan's nice looking quick release on 3 will translate to NBA? Some of his highlights just look awesome.
The 3 pts range is farther in the NBA but he's got range on his shot and is a pure shooter. I think the concern with him is learning the system, defense and a pop giving him a chance.

[kobyz]

For those familiar with him, any predictions on whether or not Bertan's nice looking quick release on 3 will translate to NBA? Some of his highlights just look awesome.

I don't like his release, seems to me too unconventional and streaky, i don't think he is gonna translate, he is not efective player even in Europe...

[Darius Bieber]

How do you know it is wrong?

Homeboy basically runs the Think Tank. He knows his stuff.

[beirmeistr]

Understood. Clearly I am completely ignorant on fishes. :lol

that big fish is camouflaged so well that it was a picture of a peaceful brook.

[SAGirl]

I don't understand what the spurs doing with Boban and now Dedmon, singing them for just one year without them having enough time in just one year to learn the team and not going to help, and than losing them for nothing, what the sense in that?
They don't have much cap and the market is such right now that you only get guys in multiple year contracts if you pay them a lot of dough. If you want someone on the cheap it might be someone who is coming in for just one season to earn a better contract the following year: a reclamation project, a European player like Boban, etc. That's just how the market goes.

[ceperez]

Clock ticking... is LJC going to be signed?

Who is the mystery PF that needs to be signed?

[palangi]

WTF

Patty Mills?

[Chinook]

Clock ticking... is LJC going to be signed?

Who is the mystery PF that needs to be signed?

LJC can really sign at any time now. He wasn't bound by cap space. Maybe the Spurs are "negotiating", as objective suggested.

[Chinook]

How do you know it is wrong?

No UDFA has the leverage to get a guaranteed one-year deal before summer league. None.

[SAGirl]

Also, I'm very happy with how good SA can be - have said so all along. Not arguing they aren't a great team and that an injury for sure crushes them. But I can see the glaring holes and the potential for calamity - even with just one injury. It's not a guarantee, but I would not be shocked either. I think the bigs is where it's at. We do have Bertans to step in or LJC but it's dicey. Despite the hate train on this young man, Kyle plugged up a lot of leaks for us everywhere last season and he's looking like an improved shooter. My suspicion though is that they need him now in a role. He probably won't be floating all over plugging leaks but technically he could still do that if you just put Bertans in his spot and use Kyle to start. We already did that last season. He's a good enough player to start and a good enough shooter hopefully to force coaches to adapt to what he's doing. Guards is not such a problem with Kawhi healthy bc a guard who spots up and shoots or moves the ball 's better next to Kawhi than Tony anyways. I could see a survival if Kawhi is healthy.

[ulosturedge]

So Chinook are you saying that Arci and Forbes are on non guaranteed deals depending on if they make it past training camp? Sounds right to me. But LJC and Bertans are going to be on guaranteed deals right? So they are going to be on the roster this upcoming year.

[coachmac87]

No UDFA has the leverage to get a guaranteed one-year deal before summer league. None.

Especially one that's not even an NBA player

[ceperez]

I think the bigs is where it's at. We do have Bertans to step in or LJC but it's dicey. Despite the hate train on this young man, Kyle plugged up a lot of leaks for us everywhere last season and he's looking like an improved shooter. My suspicion though is that they need him now in a role. He probably won't be floating all over plugging leaks but technically he could still do that if you just put Bertans in his spot and use Kyle to start. We already did that last season. He's a good enough player to start and a good enough shooter hopefully to force coaches to adapt to what he's doing. Guards is not such a problem with Kawhi healthy bc a guard who spots up and shoots or moves the ball 's better next to Kawhi than Tony anyways. I could see a survival if Kawhi is healthy.

Is LJC even ready to play in the NBA?

I can't see him becoming serviceable until maybe next season.

[tonight...you]

My avatar is a chinook. Have an appreciation for ichthyology. Would work at a fishery in another life.
I noticed that. I have a good friend that is a total freak for carp. Collects them. Spends more money on one than some people make in a year. Crazy stuff.
He even has his own personal carp farm that he does absolutely nothing with, except farm carp. Just for pets.
I don't get it, but whatever makes people happy...

[kobyz]

Before Last season i warn that if Manu would be the third wing spurs not going anywhere and saw what happened, this year it seems spurs do it again, spurs really become such lackadaisical and pathetic orginigation...

[Chinook]

So Chinook are you saying that Arci and Forbes are on non guaranteed deals depending on if they make it past training camp? Sounds right to me. But LJC and Bertans are going to be on guaranteed deals right? So they are going to be on the roster this upcoming year.

Not saying this. Their deals are about 85-percent non-guaranteed and probably won't become guaranteed until January 10, which is the date where all contracts are guaranteed for the season. Obviously, they don't get the money if they get cut in camp, but they may be cut over the first couple of months of the season as well. This is definitely the case with Arcidiacono, but it is probably the case with Forbes, too.

As far as LJC and Bertans, yes, they both have two years of guaranteed money, and they will both very likely be on the team through the season at least.

[Chinook]

Especially one that's not even an NBA player

Well, they gave Simmons a guaranteed year, but they also had that second year. That's why it would be surprising for Forbes to get the contract the article implied. He may well have gotten a guaranteed year, but he would have also gotten a fully non-guaranteed second and likely third year tacked on.

[jermaine]

753682217495175168

I love this kid man. I don't feel he had a chance in help to make the final roster, but I like him. He just seems like Spurs material.

[siraulo23]

So everyone signed except for LJC and Manu and maybe another big

Hopefully we see Bertans play tomorrow and he shows some glimpses of being a contributor for the upcoming season

[TheGreatYacht]

Now sign Stokes, RC....

[Chinook]

Well I take it you then will be colored shocked if the bench is a problem this year and/or big man depth is a problem (especially if there is an injury)?

As far as the bench goes, I wouldn't be shocked to see it struggle. I actually expect it to have bumps because of chemistry and lack of experience, and if Pop runs out the same tired "Manu dominating the ball" offense, I think it could look bad. I think the talent is there, though. Pop just has to suck it up and put in the offense that unit needs to succeed.

As far as big-man depth, it would definitely be an issue if there were an injury. But it wouldn't make the Spurs a lottery team for them to have one of their starting front court get hurt for a stretch, and that's what I was arguing against. The team can weather the storm.

[NASpurs]

753703806613852160

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Terrence Jones has landed at least one offer richer than what New Orleans can pay, league sources say, but Pels still hopeful Jones says yes

[Hoops Czar]

LJC can really sign at any time now. He wasn't bound by cap space. Maybe the Spurs are "negotiating", as objective (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) suggested.

Didn't LJC have to be signed in order to play in Summer League?

[Flawless]

Ew. You mean Gig 'Em.
Ew to both, :lol college sports

[NASpurs]

753704399587807232

[Chinook]

Didn't LJC have to be signed in order to play in Summer League?

Definitely didn't have to be. Wasn't signed last year. May have had issues getting a work visa, though.

[ceperez]

As far as the bench goes, I wouldn't be shocked to see it struggle. I actually expect it to have bumps because of chemistry and lack of experience, and if Pop runs out the same tired "Manu dominating the ball" offense, I think it could look bad. I think the talent is there, though. Pop just has to suck it up and put in the offense that unit needs to succeed.

As far as big-man depth, it would definitely be an issue if there were an injury. But it wouldn't make the Spurs a lottery team for them to have one of their starting front court get hurt for a stretch, and that's what I was arguing against. The team can weather the storm.

Pau missed 8 games last year, 13-14 he missed 20 games, the previous year 38 games... I predict he'll miss at least 10 games with the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Quincy Acy for the minimum, please.

At this point, I could see it. Though undersized, he'd check most boxes, but they really wouldn't have someone capable of starting if Aldridge goes down.


In addition to the 76ers and Timberwolves, another bigs situation to keep an eye on, is the Hawks. They're at 16 and are overloaded with bigs. It would seem they're either giving up on Tavares or are buying out Splitter.

[ceperez]

753704399587807232

Spurs could have used another big... :-(

[sasaint]

753689942283415552

I predict that Arci will be a stud... in Europe. I love the guy's energy and what skill he has. I just don't see him sticking in the NBA.

[Hoops Czar]

Definitely didn't have to be. Wasn't signed last year. May have had issues getting a work visa, though.

Who pays his health insurance if he gets injured? Also, why isn't Bertans playing in SL if you don't have to be under contract?

[I. Hustle]

I predict that Arci will be a stud... in Europe. I love the guy's energy and what skill he has. I just don't see him sticking in the NBA.

Jimmer 2.0

[montgod]

I predict that Arci will be a stud... in Europe. I love the guy's energy and what skill he has. I just don't see him sticking in the NBA.

I agree.

[Chinook]

Who pays his health insurance if he gets injured? Also, why isn't Bertans playing in SL if you don't have to be under contract?

He was working on a buyout.

[NASpurs]

753706963557507072

[ulosturedge]

So everyone signed except for LJC and Manu and maybe another big

Hopefully we see Bertans play tomorrow and he shows some glimpses of being a contributor for the upcoming season

I'm betting we won't see him until training camp. What's the point of playing 1 SL game lol. And if I remember correctly he didn't join his National Team because of knee issues. That is probably the same reason we haven't seen him in summer league.

[ulosturedge]

753706963557507072

Wow what in the f!@$

[NASpurs]

753706415395516417

[Chinook]

753706963557507072

That's quite a bit too much, even with everything else that's been mentioned.

[montgod]

Wow what in the f!@$

Nice for him! I figured he would get a nice parting contract for taking less from before. It doesn't affect the cap since he is one of our own so why not.

[-21-]

I moved to SA around that time (husband in the military). I had not watched or followed basketball b4, but I switched states, homes, moved, found myself in a new place and the Spurs are a big thing locally. Saw a few games on TV with husband and I was surprised the team was still that good. I mean even a casual fan knew the big 3 from winning championships but that was a long ass time ago. I was intrigued by their young guys, etc. I was more attracted to the team building, the culture of the team etc. I am therefore a little bit more attached to younger players than the old big 3. It's been interesting for me to see Kawhi develop and the team around him, etc. I just have a different perspective I guess.


So why are you SAGirl if you aren't from the area?

Anyway, my interest curve is similar to yours, but it started earlier. I am the only basketball fan in my immediate family, but I just sort of watched dumbly until about 2008 or so. So I was more attached to the new players of that came around that time (Hill, Blair, Splitter, Green, Hairston). I remember Robinson, Elliott, Avery, etc. But those aren't MY Spurs. Even the Big Three were more like an older sibling's friends than my own.

:wow I've been a Spurs fan longer than both of you and I'm technically still a "teen". That's really surprising considering how invested you guys are in the team: Chinook being a cap expert and SAGirl really into the younger guys... (actually makes more sense now why SAGirl loves Kyle so much). :lol

I've been a fan since around '05. Basketball is huge here so my uncle gave me a copy of NBA Live 05 and I remember having so much fun choosing which team to play. At first I was attracted to teams with colorful logos and recognizable names (being a kid and all) like the Hawks/Bulls/T-Wolves. I didn't even care that everyone around me were Laker fans. Not long after that though, I saw a Spurs game on TV and never looked back. Even with the relatively boring logo/color scheme, for some reason I liked the team. And from then on I stuck with the Spurs. I have to say growing up during the Richard Jefferson Years were tough. :lol Little did I know Tim & co. would be back on top not too long after those dark times. :toast

[NASpurs]

That's quite a bit too much, even with everything else that's been mentioned.

$14 million / 50 games he's going to play = $280 K per game. Color me jealous.

[Chinook]

:wow I've been a Spurs fan longer than both of you and I'm technically still a "teen". That's really surprising considering how invested you guys are in the team: Chinook being a cap expert and SAGirl really into the younger guys... (actually makes more sense now why SAGirl loves Kyle so much). :lol

I've been a fan since around '05. Basketball is huge here so my uncle gave me a copy of NBA Live 05 and I remember having so much fun choosing which team to play. At first I was attracted to teams with colorful logos and recognizable names (being a kid and all) like the Hawks/Bulls/T-Wolves. I didn't even care that everyone around me were Laker fans. Not long after that though, I saw a Spurs game on TV and never looked back. Even with the relatively boring logo/color scheme, for some reason I liked the team. And from then on I stuck with the Spurs. I have to say growing up during the Richard Jefferson Years were tough. :lol Little did I know Tim & co. would be back on top not too long after those dark times. :toast

I mean, I've been cheering for the Spurs since you were at most 2. I have a Spurs shirt from the Fiesta colors days that would probably make a great skull cap for me now. But I was not a fan in the way I am now (where the team is more of hobby than simply entertainment) until I was closer to your assumed age. I'm just 26, though, so don't take me for one of those nostalgia fans. Not yet, at least. But as soon as Green goes, I'll be waxing on about how any of the new young guys can't hold a candle to Danny.

[lilbthebasedgod]

so what does our cap look like as of now? As I understand it Ginobili taking 14mil doesn't apply to the cap right?

[NASpurs]

753709428428288000

:lmao minimum, you gotta be fucking kidding me

[Chinook]

so what does our cap look like as of now? As I understand it Ginobili taking 14mil doesn't apply to the cap right?

Only the $5.6-Million hold does.

[Chinook]

753709428428288000

:lmao minimum, you gotta be fucking kidding me

Spurs just don't want to go for guys at this point.

[TheGreatYacht]

Can't wait to see the Manure fans :downspin: this, lol.

:cry but, but his agent said he had a higher offer :cry
:cry he deserves it, he was underpaid in 2013 when he was earning 14M and costing us a ship :cry

[Dex]

Nice for him! I figured he would get a nice parting contract for taking less from before. It doesn't affect the cap since he is one of our own so why not.

Exactly...everyone assumed he would be getting more than $5M (which he deserves), and anything beyond that has no effect on the Spurs flexibility or options. Doesn't make a difference whether they are giving him $10M or $30M at this point since it is only for one year and the Spurs are already over the cap.

Might as well give one of the Spurs greats a nice parting gift...it's not like the money is coming out of y'alls pockets.

[Chinook]

I feel bad for Jones. With the luck NO has, he'll be lucky to be able to walk at the end of the year. Definitely Portland 2.0 over there.

[NASpurs]

Spurs just don't want to go for guys at this point.

I... don't even know what to say at this point. I hope the Spurs at least spoke to him and he chose the Pelicans. Anything else besides that would be fucking absurd.

[TheGreatYacht]

it's not like the money is coming out of y'alls pockets.
Would've fooled me. Thought it did seeing as how everyone bitches about Parker making the same dough

[Hoops Czar]

Terrance Jones doesn't fit the System the way LJC does.

[cd021]

Can someone update me on Milutinov? I thought he was going to be on the SL team but I heard he was spotted at a game in the stands.

[DPG21920]

That's quite a bit too much, even with everything else that's been mentioned.

I mean, I don't know. With his level of play last year and the contracts that got handed out, I can't see how that is considered too much without being really literal down to the dollar (meaning and extra 1-2M really isn't a big deal).

[DPG21920]

This is similar to Tim's deal. You have to look at Manu's total money from last year to this year. The difference is Manu get's a bump compared to Tim because Manu is actually playing.

16M / 2 years = 8M per year for last year and this year.

[Chinook]

I mean, I don't know. With his level of play last year and the contracts that got handed out, I can't see how that is considered too much without being really literal down to the dollar (meaning and extra 1-2M really isn't a big deal).

Manu is probably going to see his minutes cut even more, so his per-second compensation will probably be up there with max players. If anyone seriously wonders if Pop is glad Duncan is gone (you know, because they have avoided anything Spurs related for two decades), then this should squelch that. Pop will lean on the Big Three until they're gone. There is no "well, they're getting older and less impact" in his thought process.

[siraulo23]

Acy gone :lol

[NASpurs]

:lmao

753712246442688512

[Chinook]

I... don't even know what to say at this point. I hope the Spurs at least spoke to him and he chose the Pelicans. Anything else besides that would be fucking absurd.

The only thing I can think of is that the team is targeting a specific player and thinks they are going to land him. No idea who that would be, though.

[Chinook]

Next thing you know, DeShaun Thomas will have a deal with some random team.

[-21-]

I mean, I've been cheering for the Spurs since you were at most 2. I have a Spurs shirt from the Fiesta colors days that would probably make a great skull cap for me now. But I was not a fan in the way I am now (where the team is more of hobby than simply entertainment) until I was closer to your assumed age. I'm just 26, though, so don't take me for one of those nostalgia fans. Not yet, at least. But as soon as Green goes, I'll be waxing on about how any of the new young guys can't hold a candle to Danny.

We have one thing in common: I love Danny Green as well. :lol

[jyra]

Thomas already signed in Turkey.

[raybies]

There goes Acy.

[DPG21920]

Manu is probably going to see his minutes cut even more, so his per-second compensation will probably be up there with max players. If anyone seriously wonders if Pop is glad Duncan is gone (you know, because they have avoided anything Spurs related for two decades), then this should squelch that. Pop will lean on the Big Three until they're gone. There is no "well, they're getting older and less impact" in his thought process.

I agree somewhat from a raw basketball perspective. But you have to look at factoring in what Manu and Tim did last year enabled SA to do.

It seems very clear that SA said to both Tim/Manu that for taking less this year (potentially a lot less) we will make it up next year whether you retire or not.

So if the market for Manu last year was 2 years/16M but he could only get 2.5M last year, that factors into this.

But raw basketball wise, yes. However, I think everyone agrees that Manu basketball wise was worth 6M this year so the fact we know it's more than his cap hold anyways, really doesn't matter.

[Robz4000]

Spurs aren't going for anyone because they plan to re-sign Bonner.

[TheGreatYacht]

Every player y'all bring up gets signed instantly.

I really hope Golden State doesn't take Ayres, he really fits what they need.

[DPG21920]

The only thing I can think of is that the team is targeting a specific player and thinks they are going to land him. No idea who that would be, though.

Same thing with Dedmon. Most of us wanted him but had heard nothing and then bam. I"m quite sure SA is targeting players they want and probably did talk to TJ.

[SAGirl]

753709428428288000

:lmao minimum, you gotta be fucking kidding me
There has to be something wrong with him. Houston didn't even extend a QO bc they were scared he would accept... He might have real injury red flags... I don't know anything about him but seems ridiculous unless there is a major red flag.

[picnroll]

Manu sacrificed $$$ for the Spurs. When the Spurs can give him some $$$ back to make him somewhat whole without cost to them other than the money they should and will do it. Spurs are not the Clippers and Strrling. People who carp about him getting a good contract are FOS.

[NASpurs]

The only thing I can think of is that the team is targeting a specific player and thinks they are going to land him. No idea who that would be, though.

It's amazing the vice grip that Bonner has on the Spurs organization.

[lilbthebasedgod]

Only the $5.6-Million hold does.
So how much do we have to offer anybody?

Because we could have easily kept boban from what it looks like and we're gonna probably pick up someone worse.

[NASpurs]

There has to be something wrong with him. Houston didn't even extend a QO bc they were scared he would accept... He might have real injury red flags... I don't know anything about him but seems ridiculous unless there is a major red flag.

Read up on his injury that he suffered last year. He basically went paralyzed for a while.

[NASpurs]

753713760481583104

[TheGreatYacht]

So how much do we have to offer anybody?

Because we could have easily kept boban from what it looks like and we're gonna probably pick up someone worse.
Manu cost us Boban. Now they're close to the luxury tax

[I. Hustle]

Every player y'all bring up gets signed instantly.

I really hope Golden State doesn't take Ayres, he really fits what they need.

Geez, I would be freakin scared of GS if they picked up Bonner. The way they are dependent on 3s. He would break Stephs record.

[I. Hustle]

Manu cost us Boban. Now they're close to the luxury tax

That was supposed to be in blue.

The Pistons can keep Boban. Great guy but we need someone that can move.

[raybies]

753713760481583104

Wouldn't mind Seraphin, Hansbrough, or bass

[TheGreatYacht]

Geez, I would be freakin scared of GS if they picked up Bonner. The way they are dependent on 3s. He would break Stephs record.
Crazy thing is he'll be automatic with them since the games will be over by the 3rd quarter when he checks in :lol

[Chinook]

Not a hater of Serphin at all. Wouldn't mind Lee, either, if he wants to accept the deep-bench role. Wonder if the Robinson rumors bear fruit. Dude might have a standing offer from the Spurs and is hoping someone beats it.

[I. Hustle]

Crazy thing is he'll be automatic with them since the games will be over by the 3rd quarter when he checks in :lol

LMAO you are probably right. They would probably cheer him on to chuck away.

[NASpurs]

Stooooop you're killing me :lol

753715293189345280

[DPG21920]

Not a hater of Serphin at all. Wouldn't mind Lee, either, if he wants to accept the deep-bench role. Wonder if the Robinson rumors bear fruit. Dude might have a standing offer from the Spurs and is hoping someone beats it.

I was thinking this earlier today. It would make a lot of sense. Even guys like TJ seemed to be holding out for as long as they could but have to make decisions now.

My bet is SA signs Robinson soon. With TJ getting the min, don't think Robinson gets more and he wants to play; not many teams offer a better chance of that than SA.

[TheGreatYacht]

RC is somewhere in Vegas driving while intoxicated, did y'all really expect him to call free agents we needed? :lol

[SAGirl]

Manu is probably going to see his minutes cut even more, so his per-second compensation will probably be up there with max players. If anyone seriously wonders if Pop is glad Duncan is gone (you know, because they have avoided anything Spurs related for two decades), then this should squelch that. Pop will lean on the Big Three until they're gone. There is no "well, they're getting older and less impact" in his thought process.
It's rather depressing to me honestly. At one point it's not for the best. The Kawhi fans have been raising hell about Tony and I stayed neutral in that party bc we still needed Tony but this is just ridiculous with Tony saying he wants to play until he's 40, and Manu at this rate encouraging it. I suppose it's a fallacy that this is Kawhi's team. This is old geezer team lol with just some youngsters balling around them ughhh.

[timtonymanu]

Stooooop you're killing me :lol

753715293189345280

We're saving the minimum for stupid ass Bonner, I bet. :lol

[timtonymanu]

RC is somewhere in Vegas driving while intoxicated, did y'all really expect him to call free agents we needed? :lol

:cry It Still Hurts.

[NASpurs]

RC is somewhere in Vegas driving while intoxicated, did y'all really expect him to call free agents we needed? :lol

And probably doing blow from some dead hooker's ass crack as we speak.

http://speakerdata.s3.amazonaws.com/photo/image/818735/442889022.jpg

[Chinook]

RC is somewhere in Vegas driving while intoxicated, did y'all really expect him to call free agents we needed? :lol

Good point. Dude wouldn't even call a cab.

[DPG21920]

It's rather depressing to me honestly. At one point it's not for the best. The Kawhi fans have been raising hell about Tony and I stayed neutral in that party bc we still needed Tony but this is just ridiculous with Tony saying he wants to play until he's 40, and Manu at this rate encouraging it. I suppose it's a fallacy that this is Kawhi's team. This is old geezer team lol with just some youngsters balling around them ughhh.

I don't fully agree. More than ever, we saw Pop making tougher choices with the big 3. Benching Tim in big moments or not even playing him vs GS (when he was playing against everyone else). TP was pulled in plenty of moments; unfortunately Mills could not step up & neither did Manu (like in the Clippers series).

Manu has been dialled back too (despite usage rate still being high) but with Kyle/Simmons around I do think he will be minimized more. But SA needs him.

[loveforthegame]

Robinson would be my first choice. Thompson and Seraphin after that. Hi skin maybe but not that excited about.

So ... that means Spurs are probably bringing Bonner back.

[TheGreatYacht]

:cry It Still Hurts.

And probably doing blow from some dead hooker's ass crack as we speak.

http://speakerdata.s3.amazonaws.com/photo/image/818735/442889022.jpg

Good point. Dude wouldn't even call a cab.
:lmao

[Chinook]

It's rather depressing to me honestly. At one point it's not for the best. The Kawhi fans have been raising hell about Tony and I stayed neutral in that party bc we still needed Tony but this is just ridiculous with Tony saying he wants to play until he's 40, and Manu at this rate encouraging it. I suppose it's a fallacy that this is Kawhi's team. This is old geezer team lol with just some youngsters balling around them ughhh.

I think the assumption is going to be that if Manu returns next season, it will be for the min or close to it. I just don't like that he leveraged the Spurs. They absolutely did not have to give into Manu. I'd've let him go to Denver or wherever for a TE. $10 Million was one thing. That extra $4 Million is what takes the cake.

[Ditty]

I'm a little surprised the Spurs didn't offer Jones a contract especially for the minimum. He does have upside still, and would of been a low risk, high reward type of deal. Though I believe I remember reading on clutch fans that I believe Jones doesn't like Aldridge when Houston was trying to go after him last summer.

[DPG21920]

I think the assumption is going to be that if Manu returns next season, it will be for the min or close to it. I just don't like that he leveraged the Spurs. They absolutely did not have to give into Manu. I'd've let him go to Denver or wherever for a TE. $10 Million was one thing. That extra $4 Million is what takes the cake.

Would you have thought last year getting a 2/16M deal would have been excessive? I agree, Manu leveraged the Spurs for 4M but the fact that 10M is ok is arbitrary. Especially if other teams were legit offering Manu bigger money. Since the 4M doesn't matter to SA I don't see haggling over money when a player has done you favors.

It's like haggling with LJC after he was flexible. Same road IMO.

[Obstructed_View]

I get the feeling that the people that are mad about Manu's deal don't understand the salary implications.

[LakerHater]

753719062421581824

[timtonymanu]

There has to be something wrong with him. Houston didn't even extend a QO bc they were scared he would accept... He might have real injury red flags... I don't know anything about him but seems ridiculous unless there is a major red flag.

He did kick a homeless man in Portland years back, iirc.

[Chinook]

Would you have thought last year getting a 2/16M deal would have been excessive? I agree, Manu leveraged the Spurs for 4M but the fact that 10M is ok is arbitrary. Especially if other teams were legit offering Manu bigger money. Since the 4M doesn't matter to SA I don't see haggling over money when a player has done you favors.

It's like haggling with LJC after he was flexible. Same road IMO.

Manu's only done one favor, IMO, and that was last year. His second contract was pretty hefty at the time, and the competing offers were never really specified. His third contract was for the max. His fourth one was fine for the market, and maybe a little generous considering how poorly he finished out the year. His fifth was the aforementioned steal that would have been in line with offering $10 Million this season (like $13M/2 would have been a fine, to above-fine deal last year). So now you have him getting paid to be a part-time superstar. I just don't see it. Tim was a world-class, GOAT-level player. He could have earned so much more. Manu isn't in that group, despite how he's seen here. He's great and certainly could have been able to earn more chasing the money. But it's not the same level of sacrifice in relation to his worth.

[r0drig0lac]

I get the feeling that the people that are mad about Manu's deal don't understand the salary implications.

word

[DPG21920]

I get the feeling that the people that are mad about Manu's deal don't understand the salary implications.

Chinook most definitely understands them. I see his point - Manu saw a moment of "weakness" and forced the Spurs to pay him that money essentially. It's one way to look at it but I think it's more about SA keeping their word that if Manu was worth 2/16M last year, then he deserves that money this year.

[TD 21]

Robinson would be my first choice. Thompson and Seraphin after that. Hi skin maybe but not that excited about.

So ... that means Spurs are probably bringing Bonner back.

He makes no sense at this point, with Dedmon and Jean-Charles. They're all athletic bigs that can't shoot, which essentially means they all have to function as centers offensively and can't play together.

Even if Simmons and maybe Bertans, are more likely to claim the final rotation spot over whichever yet to be signed power forward, that player still has to be good enough to be a rotation player (and starter, if Aldridge gets injured). They can't just hand a spot to a minimal, unproven player; besides, they'll need the option to play more traditional in certain match-ups.

[ElNono]

I don't fully agree. More than ever, we saw Pop making tougher choices with the big 3. Benching Tim in big moments or not even playing him vs GS (when he was playing against everyone else). TP was pulled in plenty of moments; unfortunately Mills could not step up & neither did Manu (like in the Clippers series).

Manu has been dialled back too (despite usage rate still being high) but with Kyle/Simmons around I do think he will be minimized more. But SA needs him.

Manu didn't even close out playoff games against the Clippers two seasons ago. Which was a first back then (and I'm not saying it was wrong, just notorious). So yeah, the notion that Pop hasn't shifted the focus from the Big 3 is not really true.

[Hoops Czar]

RC is somewhere in Vegas driving while intoxicated, did y'all really expect him to call free agents we needed? :lol

One of the most overrated scrub GM's in the NBA. In the first day or two of the moratorium in 2014, he signed Belinelli because his ex-coach Thibbs, who didn't want him anymore called him an underrated defender and a good offensive player no matter what the situation called for. He signed Ayers because Boylen, an ex-assistant said he was an underrated big that would fit the Spurs system. Spurs offseason finished one day into free agency.

BOOM, 2014 NBA exec of the year. :lmao

[Chinook]

I get the feeling that the people that are mad about Manu's deal don't understand the salary implications.

Nah. I predicted this before any number came out. I'm upset at the extra $4 Million. Hell, if it were $28M/2 with a non-guaranteed second year, I would be okay. But they completely capitulated to Manu. It's almost as if his agent took advantage of the FO's grief over losing Duncan. Like, "You don't want to lose two legends in the same year, do you? Then pay up."

[NASpurs]

753719995843112961

[Chinook]

753719995843112961

Send his ass to Philly then. Have then throw in Noel.

[timtonymanu]

753719995843112961

auction us one of their bigs they're supposedly trying to get rid of.

[TheGreatYacht]

One of the most overrated scrub GM's in the NBA. In the first day or two of the moratorium in 2014, he signed Belinelli because his ex-coach Thibbs, who didn't want him anymore called him an underrated defender and a good offensive player no matter what the situation called for. He signed Ayers because Boylen, an ex-assistant said he was an underrated big that would fit the Spurs system. Spurs offseason finished one day into free agency.

BOOM, 2014 NBA exec of the year. :lmao
Getting exec of the year for landing Aldridge when the only competition was the Lolkers, Blazers, and Suns :lol

[DPG21920]

Manu's only done one favor, IMO, and that was last year. His second contract was pretty hefty at the time, and the competing offers were never really specified. His third contract was for the max. His fourth one was fine for the market, and maybe a little generous considering how poorly he finished out the year. His fifth was the aforementioned steal that would have been in line with offering $10 Million this season (like $13M/2 would have been a fine, to above-fine deal last year). So now you have him getting paid to be a part-time superstar. I just don't see it. Tim was a world-class, GOAT-level player. He could have earned so much more. Manu isn't in that group, despite how he's seen here. He's great and certainly could have been able to earn more chasing the money. But it's not the same level of sacrifice in relation to his worth.

That's my point, if we know and are ok with essentially a 2/14M (2 last year, 10 this year) is the extra 2M thank you for a big sacrifice that helped land LMA really that upsetting?

Even if you think it was just one favor (I think being loyal, even when paid well, is still a favor), I still think 2M is really nothing to fret over in that regard.

With regards to pay for performance, sure, he's overpaid, but ultimately that doesn't matter since he's needed this year anyways.

[objective]

LJC can really sign at any time now. He wasn't bound by cap space. Maybe the Spurs are "negotiating", as objective suggested.

They negotiated Ian down to 80% his first year.

And that's with him being a promise pick stash who was French, who stopped all workouts for other teams, who even shares a jersey number with LJC.

Hell, they hardballed him so hard his contract by % might be the smallest in league history for a first rounder. They hardballed him so hard they even cut him before year 4. Belicheck style.

Not saying it's happened with LJC, but it's a possibility. Proven possibility.

[ElNono]

753719995843112961

Brett doing Gino a solid, tbh...

[Obstructed_View]

Chinook most definitely understands them. I see his point - Manu saw a moment of "weakness" and forced the Spurs to pay him that money essentially. It's one way to look at it but I think it's more about SA keeping their word that if Manu was worth 2/16M last year, then he deserves that money this year.

Things worked out in his favor, but maybe someone more knowledgeable about the salary cap can explain how it hurt the team. Peter Holt is not hurting for money, and it's a small price to pay for what Manu's given to this team over the last 13 years. Why is it "just a business" when management has to do something for financial reasons, but it's somehow predatory that Manu and his agent got paid and didn't harm the team?

[ElNono]

One of the most overrated scrub GM's in the NBA. In the first day or two of the moratorium in 2014, he signed Belinelli because his ex-coach Thibbs, who didn't want him anymore called him an underrated defender and a good offensive player no matter what the situation called for. He signed Ayers because Boylen, an ex-assistant said he was an underrated big that would fit the Spurs system. Spurs offseason finished one day into free agency.

BOOM, 2014 NBA exec of the year. :lmao

Both of those guys won a ring with the Spurs... just sayin'...

[szkorhetz]

Fuck it. :D Really loved Jones.

Maybe time to turn to the other Jones? (Perry)

[timtonymanu]

Both of those guys won a ring with the Spurs... just sayin'...

Poops :lol

Should have cited last offseason if anything

[NASpurs]

I'll just leave this here, don't want to throw gasoline on that other thread. :lol

753721265349730304

[MR-Clutch]

753719995843112961

This has coangelo written all over it.

[rjv]

so now manu signed for 14 million?

[Obstructed_View]

Nah. I predicted this before any number came out. I'm upset at the extra $4 Million. Hell, if it were $28M/2 with a non-guaranteed second year, I would be okay. But they completely capitulated to Manu. It's almost as if his agent took advantage of the FO's grief over losing Duncan. Like, "You don't want to lose two legends in the same year, do you? Then pay up."

I mentioned exactly this scenario a few weeks ago when it looked like Manu was going to be in a position to sign last, and I hoped they'd pay him as much as possible. It's almost as if the Spurs said, "You've been really valuable to this team, and you took less money so we could sign Lamarcus Aldridge. Here's a big financial thank you."

[r0drig0lac]

753719995843112961

hahahahaha

[picnroll]

Back in 2004 when Ginobili when Ginobili was a free agent he was reportedly offered by Denver a 6 yr deal starting at a little over $9 million. He signed with the Spurs for a little over $6 million. Even the biggest Manu hater how many championships you think SA would have if he had not given the Spurs a deal and had gone to Denver?

[ElNono]

Philly offered $16m-$17m...that's a $3m discount. Thank you Manu.

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe time to turn to the other Jones? (Perry)

He's Austin Daye with even less dedication and desire.

[DPG21920]

Reported from the most credible of sources (Woj) that PHI offer was 2/30M (with first year guarantee of 17m, 2nd year Unknown guaranteed amount).

He definitely leveraged SA but in the end, after doing the favor last year why should he turn down so much money when it did not mean that much to SA to pay (other than losing Boban) since we know they were not going to let him walk?

[Chinook]

I mentioned exactly this scenario a few weeks ago when it looked like Manu was going to be in a position to sign last, and I hoped they'd pay him as much as possible. It's almost as if the Spurs said, "You've been really valuable to this team, and you took less money so we could sign Lamarcus Aldridge. Here's a big financial thank you."

I think he took what he was worth last year in terms of guaranteed money ($6 Million).

[Robz4000]

Porker > Manure

[TheGreatYacht]

Porker > Manure
Omg :wow

[objective]

I'm okay with the 'thank you' contract. It cost the team Boban, which theoretically hurts. But Pop didn't deserve a second chance with Boban, I'm glad Boban got out.

The only issue is going to be how washed up Manu looks after the Olympics. I'm expecting it to be bad.

[DPG21920]

Things worked out in his favor, but maybe someone more knowledgeable about the salary cap can explain how it hurt the team. Peter Holt is not hurting for money, and it's a small price to pay for what Manu's given to this team over the last 13 years. Why is it "just a business" when management has to do something for financial reasons, but it's somehow predatory that Manu and his agent got paid and didn't harm the team?

It cost the Spurs either Boban or Boris depending on how you look at it. My logic of it being SA doing Manu a solid has just been proven emphatically wrong though.

SA only offered Manu 3M which was below his cap hold. That signals they wanted to sign other FA's and missed out because they had to offer about 5x as much as they did originally.

Doesn't make sense to me that they would only offer that much (unless they were selling Manu on being "More" competitive), but that is what Woj said.

That means there was definitely no 2-year agreement with Manu like I thought.

[Obstructed_View]

Reported from the most credible of sources (Woj) that PHI offer was 2/30M (with first year guarantee of 17m, 2nd year Unknown guaranteed amount).

He definitely leveraged SA but in the end, after doing the favor last year why should he turn down so much money when it did not mean that much to SA to pay (other than losing Boban) since we know they were not going to let him walk?

Did anyone think the Spurs were going to match that offer from Detroit? I knew he was gone the second he signed it.

[ElNono]

I'm okay with the 'thank you' contract. It cost the team Boban, which theoretically hurts. But Pop didn't deserve a second chance with Boban, I'm glad Boban got out.

The only issue is going to be how washed up Manu looks after the Olympics. I'm expecting it to be bad.

I get the feeling we're not going to last long there, tbh... I just hope we avoid injury.

[Hoops Czar]

Both of those guys won a ring with the Spurs... just sayin'...


Spurs rang with Matt Bonner in 2007 but, the 'ship had nothing to do with Matt Bonner.

[SAGirl]

753719995843112961
Lol we suspected it was the 76ers. They need veterans for that mess of youngsters they have there and to place butts in seats. It would have ended Manus career to go there TBH

[DPG21920]

Also Woj's math sucks. Says SA offered 3M then had to "triple" their offer. 3 X 3 = 9M, not 14.

[ElNono]

Spurs rang with Matt Bonner in 2007 but, the 'ship had nothing to do with Matt Bonner.

But, you weren't discussing the players, but RC putting a competitive team and winning Exec of the Year... he did put a championship team together.

[Obstructed_View]

It cost the Spurs either Boban or Boris depending on how you look at it. My logic of it being SA doing Manu a solid has just been proven emphatically wrong though.

SA only offered Manu 3M which was below his cap hold. That signals they wanted to sign other FA's and missed out because they had to offer about 5x as much as they did originally.

Doesn't make sense to me that they would only offer that much (unless they were selling Manu on being "More" competitive), but that is what Woj said.

That means there was definitely no 2-year agreement with Manu like I thought.

Boris was gone, so I guess it's Boban. So yeah, that sucks. Offering Manu 3M is a Wade-level insult, and the Spurs had to know there was nearly a 100 percent chance of it backfiring. Manu has sacrificed for championship teams, and he sacrificed to secure the team's future.

At the time of the rumor about the big offer for Manu, I was perfectly fine with the team telling him congratulations and to enjoy playing in America's toilet for the final year of his career.

[ElNono]

Also Woj's math sucks. Says SA offered 3M then had to "triple" their offer. 3 X 3 = 9M, not 14.

I thought I read "more than triple"...

[Chinook]

Did anyone think the Spurs were going to match that offer from Detroit? I knew he was gone the second he signed it.

I think had Manu retired the team would have been proactive in hammering out a deal with him. I think Detroit waited until they were pretty sure the Spurs wouldn't match to offer the deal. Probably would have gotten him for the MLE had he been the primary target. However, he wouldn't have made a ton of sense with Gasol and no Manu. The team would definitely need a vet guard.

[DPG21920]

Did anyone think the Spurs were going to match that offer from Detroit? I knew he was gone the second he signed it.

Yes. Apparently the most reliable of sources is reporting SA wanted to keep Boban and could not do that because Manu told SA he was leaving for PHI if SA didn't up their offer.

[SAGirl]

I get the feeling we're not going to last long there, tbh... I just hope we avoid injury.
Fingers crossed, seriously want Manu healthy!

[DPG21920]

I thought I read "more than triple"...

Ok, even if they quadrupled, 3x4 = 12, not 14M :Lol

[objective]

For those familiar with him, any predictions on whether or not Bertan's nice looking quick release on 3 will translate to NBA? Some of his highlights just look awesome.

I think the shot will be fine. He'll be more open than in Europe I expect and at least over there he never hesitated like Bonner and Anderson do.

Bigger question is whether Pop gives him time and real opportunities, or keeps him on the bench because "it wouldn't be fair" to give him time over Anderson or whatever vet scrub they get for the minimum.

I hope for the former while expecting the latter.

[Hoops Czar]

But, you weren't discussing the players, but RC putting a competitive team and winning Exec of the Year... he did put a championship team together.

R.C's competitiveness starts and ends with Tim Duncan and to a lesser extent Manu Ginobili and Kawhi Leonard. He could have filled the remaining roster spots with bags of shit and the Spurs still would have won the championship.

The point being, from a statistical standpoint, he signed two of the worst players in the NBA and he got rewarded for it. Now, his tenure really begins and he's not off to a banging start.

[objective]

Also Woj's math sucks. Says SA offered 3M then had to "triple" their offer. 3 X 3 = 9M, not 14.

Maybe he meant triple the cap hold?

[Obstructed_View]

Yes. Apparently the most reliable of sources is reporting SA wanted to keep Boban and could not do that because Manu told SA he was leaving for PHI if SA didn't up their offer.
Wanting to do something and being able to do it are two different things. I wanted it, too. Once the Spurs signed Gasol, it was going to take a lot of good luck to land Boban and take care of their own free agents. Throwing some couch change at Manu was a longshot. In the end the team didn't have the room.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the shot will be fine. He'll be more open than in Europe I expect and at least over there he never hesitated like Bonner and Anderson do.

Bigger question is whether Pop gives him time and real opportunities, or keeps him on the bench because "it wouldn't be fair" to give him time over Anderson or whatever vet scrub they get for the minimum.

I hope for the former while expecting the latter.

If Pop does that bullshit this year, the 50-win streak will come to a fitting end. If he doesn't play them early, they'll get lots of injury minutes later.

[MR-Clutch]

What can the rockets offer montejuntas? If philly wants a veteran let's give them parker for noel.

[DPG21920]

Maybe he meant triple the cap hold?

Maybe, but he referenced the Spurs initial offer which was 3M.

[DPG21920]

Despite the somewhat shocking revelation that there was no 2 year agreement and that Manu took that deal last year with no guarantee of anything this year, I am still fine with the result.

It cost Boban, but that's probably OK. I would rather have Manu than Boban and without Manu, SA would be in a terrible spot at the guard positions.

The question really becomes would you rather not have Manu at all and cap space to pursue someone or Manu? The money doesn't matter too much because once SA decided they were keeping Manu and everyone agrees paying him his cap hold at least was fair, the money stopped mattering.

[Obstructed_View]

I would rather have Manu than Boban and without Manu, SA would be in a terrible spot at the guard positions.

I think Manu's agent and the Spurs' FO were watching Jonathon Simmons brick threes and turn the ball over in Utah knowing that Manu was about to get paid.

[ceperez]

I guess it all goes tumbling down when Durant signed with GSW. Which of course could not have happened it the cap remained the same.

There's no reason for Duncan to painfully play the season or Manu to not get paid what others are offering.

Honestly, teams like the 76ers need Manu's leadership badly. He's like a playing coach. Spurs, also need his help.

Well, Spurs at least will still compete, like for the WCF. Not likely to win though. But you still have to play the game and you just never know what will happen.

[Nathan89]

I hope 76ers still want a vet next year so we can unload Tp on them.

Also I guess we could move Boban next year by a longer contract for limits space for a free agent next year. Not a big fan of his ability to help us vs contenders anyway so I'm fine with losing him.

[Obstructed_View]

I hope 76ers still want a vet next year so we can unload Tp on them.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hlsggc5

[noles1983]

i would trade parker for a bag of doritos. anything more is a bonus

[SAGirl]

It cost the Spurs either Boban or Boris depending on how you look at it. My logic of it being SA doing Manu a solid has just been proven emphatically wrong though.

SA only offered Manu 3M which was below his cap hold. That signals they wanted to sign other FA's and missed out because they had to offer about 5x as much as they did originally.

Doesn't make sense to me that they would only offer that much (unless they were selling Manu on being "More" competitive), but that is what Woj said.

That means there was definitely no 2-year agreement with Manu like I thought.
Well it seems to me Manu is the one who said, screw Bobo, I want to play with Kyle instead Pop. :lol
Frankly I feel like trolling a little bit though that is unlike me... bc it seems ridiculous.
Every time ElNono comes in complaining about Kyle I am going to tell him that Manu is crazy about this kid, loves his game, wanted to help him grow up and can't wait to play with him this season... for $14 mill that is.
Manu --->:chestbump<----Kyle

[offset formation]

No. Don't need a 6'7" power forward on this team. Would rather have a one of several other players...Hickson, Lee, Bass...

Didn't you just describe Bass?

[John Petrucci]

Happy for Manu and everything, but I'm not sure I understand people saying it makes no difference. Was Boban not a future trade asset at the very least? We're very likely not competing for a title this coming season anyway. Maybe I'm not understanding something about Manu's deal in relation to Boban's.

[Obstructed_View]

Didn't you just describe Bass?

Bass has a jump shot, which is probably how he's managed to survive in the NBA all this time.

[coachmac87]

Well, they gave Simmons a guaranteed year, but they also had that second year. That's why it would be surprising for Forbes to get the contract the article implied. He may well have gotten a guaranteed year, but he would have also gotten a fully non-guaranteed second and likely third year tacked on.

Simmons at least dominated SL. What has LJC done except a block here and there? He doesn't have an NBA level skill. I just don't see it...

[picnroll]

Why did the Spurs bothered to bring Boban in and develop him without a second year option?

[K...]

Why did the Spurs bothered to bring Boban in and develop him without a second year option?

to give us options this year? An we took gasol as the option.

[Mel_13]

Why did the Spurs bothered to bring Boban in and develop him without a second year option?

He wouldn't have signed for 1.2M dollars with a team option for the second year and the Spurs didn't have the cap space to offer any more than that last summer. Boban took a very small contract and the Spurs gambled that they would have the flexibility this summer to retain him.

[picnroll]

They shouldn't be wasting time developing players who don't give them the option to sign on RFA rights.

So they were expecting Duncan to give them another bargain basement deal to sign Boban? Maybe Gasol should have given them a break if he wanted to play for a more competitive team.

[DPG21920]

He wouldn't have signed for 1.2M dollars with a team option for the second year and the Spurs didn't have the cap space to offer any more than that last summer. Boban took a very small contract and the Spurs gambled that they would have the flexibility this summer to retain him.

Yup. We all sometimes only see things from SA's perspective. However, the players have things they want too. Spurs sometimes have to take calculate risks and luckily for us it pays off quite a bit for SA.

But SA would have loved to keep Boban on a cheap deal for multiple years; however Boban was sought after and he was not willing to do that which makes perfect sense.

[Hoops Czar]

to give us options this year? An we took gasol as the option.

I heard somewhere the Gasol's contract is for two years with a player option after one. I guess if has a lousy season, the Spurs will suffer but he's more apt to opt in next year. If he does well, he'll opt out and ruin the Spurs flexibility in 2017. Same goes for Dedmon and Mills. Not sure how some people are under the impression the Spurs will have flexibility to sign free agents next year.

[ElNono]

Well it seems to me Manu is the one who said, screw Bobo, I want to play with Kyle instead Pop. :lol
Frankly I feel like trolling a little bit though that is unlike me... bc it seems ridiculous.
Every time ElNono comes in complaining about Kyle I am going to tell him that Manu is crazy about this kid, loves his game, wanted to help him grow up and can't wait to play with him this season... for $14 mill that is.
Manu --->:chestbump<----Kyle

Manu actually had very kind words about Anderson every time he talks about him...

[SAGirl]

Manu actually had very kind words about Anderson every time he talks about him...
You are right.

[ElNono]

R.C's competitiveness starts and ends with Tim Duncan and to a lesser extent Manu Ginobili and Kawhi Leonard. He could have filled the remaining roster spots with bags of shit and the Spurs still would have won the championship.

The point being, from a statistical standpoint, he signed two of the worst players in the NBA and he got rewarded for it. Now, his tenure really begins and he's not off to a banging start.

It's too soon for that, even for you. I mean, Tim officially retired 4 days ago and you're already playing that card? Come on, son... at least give him a couple seasons... :lol

[Mel_13]

They shouldn't be wasting time developing players who don't give them the option to sign on RFA rights.

So they were expecting Duncan to give them another bargain basement deal to sign Boban? Maybe Gasol should have given them a break if he wanted to play for a more competitive team.

They did have RFA rights on Boban. They chose not to match Detroit's offer.

If Duncan had played this year, he would have opted out like Manu. Then, the Spurs could have matched the offer to Boban and signed Tim using his Bird Rights to an over the cap deal. No Gasol in that scenario.

[Rev Hill]

Didn't you just describe Bass?

Lol. Maybe but Bass a tad bigger and I feel more of a proven vet. Close catch. We all agree they need something besides Bonner.

[spursistan]

They shouldn't be wasting time developing players who don't give them the option to sign on RFA rights.

So they were expecting Duncan to give them another bargain basement deal to sign Boban? Maybe Gasol should have given them a break if he wanted to play for a more competitive team.

It just seems now that if Timmy didn't retire, Spurs would have probably brought the same band (incl West, Diaw) along with one stash, so no Gasol....

[ElNono]

Happy for Manu and everything, but I'm not sure I understand people saying it makes no difference. Was Boban not a future trade asset at the very least? We're very likely not competing for a title this coming season anyway. Maybe I'm not understanding something about Manu's deal in relation to Boban's.

When we agreed with Gasol, and convinced Dedmon to join us for the RE, that pretty much sealed the deal, I suspect. At that point, if you let go of Manu, you gotta go out there looking for a passable guard with basically no money.

[picnroll]

They did have RFA rights on Boban. They chose not to match Detroit's offer.

If Duncan had played this year, he would have opted out like Manu. Then, the Spurs could have matched the offer to Boban and signed Tim using his Bird Rights to an over the cap deal. No Gasol in that scenario.
Got it. Thanks.

[John Petrucci]

When we agreed with Gasol, and convinced Dedmon to join us for the RE, that pretty much sealed the deal, I suspect. At that point, if you let go of Manu, you gotta go out there looking for a passable guard with basically no money.

Makes sense, thanks Nono :bobo

[ceperez]

They did have RFA rights on Boban. They chose not to match Detroit's offer.

If Duncan had played this year, he would have opted out like Manu. Then, the Spurs could have matched the offer to Boban and signed Tim using his Bird Rights to an over the cap deal. No Gasol in that scenario.

Honestly, it just seems like the Spurs bungled this off-season. We just won't know. I mean, the trade was literally, Boban + $7m of other scrubs for Gasol. Is Gasol so much more superior in defense than Boban? Anyway... just ranting... Gasol is good but the team now lacks depth.

[Mel_13]

Honestly, it just seems like the Spurs bungled this off-season. We just won't know. I mean, the trade was literally, Boban + $7m of other scrubs for Gasol. Is Gasol so much more superior in defense than Boban? Anyway... just ranting... Gasol is good but the team now lacks depth.

The alternative would have been keeping Boban and Diaw while not signing Gasol or any free agent more expensive than Dedmon. You can argue that as a better alternative if you like.

[objective]

Honestly, it just seems like the Spurs bungled this off-season. We just won't know. I mean, the trade was literally, Boban + $7m of other scrubs for Gasol. Is Gasol so much more superior in defense than Boban? Anyway... just ranting... Gasol is good but the team now lacks depth.

In a way, the ultimate trade off was Boban + Duncan + Diaw for Gasol, and Bertans + dedmon for less than mle

[ceperez]

The alternative would have been keeping Boban and Diaw while not signing Gasol or any free agent more expensive than Dedmon. You can argue that as a better alternative if you like.

That probably wasn't an option after Pop soured on Bobo. If Bobo was playing to his potential then Boban+Diaw would be much better than Gasol. Boban's real problem was against OKC frontline. But without Durant, OKC isn't competitive. Bobo and Boban on the other hand could do very well against GSW.

Anyway, water under the bridge. Just a bad off-season.

[Mel_13]

Just a bad off-season.

The off-season that included Duncan's retirement was always going to a bad off-season.

[montgod]

Exactly...everyone assumed he would be getting more than $5M (which he deserves), and anything beyond that has no effect on the Spurs flexibility or options. Doesn't make a difference whether they are giving him $10M or $30M at this point since it is only for one year and the Spurs are already over the cap.

Might as well give one of the Spurs greats a nice parting gift...it's not like the money is coming out of y'alls pockets.

Bingo!

[Hoops Czar]

It's too soon for that, even for you. I mean, Tim officially retired 4 days ago and you're already playing that card? Come on, son... at least give him a couple seasons... :lol

Tell ya what.. If R.C. can get this team to the WCF's with this roster, then he'll buy himself another year. However, this is a put up or shut up year for Kawhi, LMA and KA. There will be no excuses why LMA can lead his team out of the second round of the playoffs or that he's still learning the system, why Leonard isn't taking over as team leader, why KA is totally useless in medium to high leverage situation even though he's a SL super star. There are literally four PG's on the roster, one of which can't play the point, another who's massively declined and is playing international ball which will compromise his seasonal contributions even more, one who's bound destined for Austin and another who's 38 years old. Though If I know how R.C. does business and I think I do, he's in talk with Andre Miller's agent as we speak (as if we needed more scrubs). This seasons gonna be a blast! :toast

[DPG21920]

It just seems now that if Timmy didn't retire, Spurs would have probably brought the same band (incl West, Diaw) along with one stash, so no Gasol....

Maybe, but SA really seemed to want Gasol regardless of Tim's decision. Even after SA secured Gasol's commitment, Pop was trying to convince Tim to come back.

It would have meant having to trade someone else to open up the cap room or no Bertans, etc.. But SA seemingly wanted Tim and Gasol.

[DPG21920]

In a way, the ultimate trade off was Boban + Duncan + Diaw for Gasol, and Bertans + dedmon for less than mle

Agreed and in the context of Tim retiring, I think SA has done an amazing job. It doesn't come without risk (questionable bench talen, thin up front) but it's a great chance at still being a great team while also going younger and developing.

It may crash and burn but I love what SA has done regardless of results; especially since there is no long term hamstringing going on either.

[Spurs Brazil]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
In wake of Duncan retirement, R.C. Buford says there will be a "new challenge every day" for #Spurs.

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford believes pAugasol will be a "great fit" for #Spurs: "He's been a guy we have admired and followed and competed against a long time."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford declined to comment oon reports that a lucrative, multi-year offer from 76ers impacted #Spurs' negotiations with Ginobili.

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said Ginobili and other vets will provide "leadership and cultural strength." #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Given influx of youth and loss of Duncan's leadership, Ginobili's return is important in terms of keeping culture going, Buford said. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford didn't rule out Matt Bonner returning. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said #Spurs still working on a deal for forward Livio Jean-Charles: "Our anticipation is we will eventually get him on the roster."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said signing of Dedmon "clearly has that intent" of getting younger, more athletic. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford: "Getting Dejounte in the fold hopefully has accomplished some of that, but we have to be realistc on expectations of a 19 year old."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
R.C. Buford told me several of today's signings are step in direction of #Spurs getting younger & more athletic.

[timtonymanu]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
In wake of Duncan retirement, R.C. Buford says there will be a "new challenge every day" for #Spurs.

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford believes pAugasol will be a "great fit" for #Spurs: "He's been a guy we have admired and followed and competed against a long time."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford declined to comment oon reports that a lucrative, multi-year offer from 76ers impacted #Spurs' negotiations with Ginobili.

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said Ginobili and other vets will provide "leadership and cultural strength." #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Given influx of youth and loss of Duncan's leadership, Ginobili's return is important in terms of keeping culture going, Buford said. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford didn't rule out Matt Bonner returning. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said #Spurs still working on a deal for forward Livio Jean-Charles: "Our anticipation is we will eventually get him on the roster."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford said signing of Dedmon "clearly has that intent" of getting younger, more athletic. #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford: "Getting Dejounte in the fold hopefully has accomplished some of that, but we have to be realistc on expectations of a 19 year old."

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
R.C. Buford told me several of today's signings are step in direction of #Spurs getting younger & more athletic.

smh. I really might consider tuning out next season. No way I want to see Bonner in a Spurs jersey anymore if Timmy isn't there. So much for younger & athletic.

[Spurs Brazil]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford on Duncan: "He was the person who set the temperament and the tone for our program for two decades. That won't be replaced." #Spurs

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford called Duncan the "greatest at his position to ever play the game." #Spurs

[ElNono]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford didn't rule out Matt Bonner returning. #Spurs

:pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[montgod]

smh. I really might consider tuning out next season. No way I want to see Bonner in a Spurs jersey anymore if Timmy isn't there. So much for younger & athletic.

What's funny is he said athletic comment after mentioning Bonner...smh.

[spursistan]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford didn't rule out Matt Bonner returning. #Spurs



:lmao
:vomit:

[GSH]

Maybe, but SA really seemed to want Gasol regardless of Tim's decision. Even after SA secured Gasol's commitment, Pop was trying to convince Tim to come back.

It would have meant having to trade someone else to open up the cap room or no Bertans, etc.. But SA seemingly wanted Tim and Gasol.


I would have loved to see that a few years ago.

The problem with Boban was that we all created a fiction that he was going to play for next to nothing for a couple of years, while he improved off the bench. At some level we should have known better, because we were surprised that he had signed for so little when he came here. I saw an article today about the worst contracts of this year's free-agency. A large percentage of them were big men. It was just sort of a perfect storm for the Spurs. To be honest, with Boban getting $7M per year, it's a minor miracle that the Spurs were able to afford Gasol.

[picnroll]

Fuck Bonner. Rotate through some promising young D leaguers. Spurs grabbing these washed up players like Miller and Martin and holding onto stiffs like Bonner is one reason they're in trouble now.

[ElNono]

753432741987749888

753434543252647937

[objective]

This Bonner stuff ... troubling.

And this bit about LJC.... hmmm. Could it be a buyout issue? Could ASVEL be turning into the new Vittoria and try to jerk the Spurs around?

Or could it be something else, I wonder ...

[GSH]

Well it seems to me Manu is the one who said, screw Bobo, I want to play with Kyle instead Pop. :lol

LOL... I don't know how much money I would have to have to leave $15M on the table, but it would have to be one hell of a lot. As it is, he left "just" $4M on the table, for the privilege of playing for the Spurs one more season. We all talk about how guys should give up a shitload of money out of loyalty. I doubt many of us would actually do it - especially if we knew it was our last chance for that kind of paycheck. I don't know that the whole thing requires any deep analysis.

But that's a really cool segue into a Kyle reference. :toast

[playbonner15]

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
R.C. Buford told me several of today's signings are step in direction of #Spurs getting younger & more athletic.

Tom Orsborn ‏@tom_orsborn
Buford didn't rule out Matt Bonner returning. #Spurs

:pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

This kills Spurstalk :lmao

[loveforthegame]

Bonner, that's a step in getting younger and more athletic all right. Need his corporate knowledge and to help keep that culture going.

[td4mvp2k]

This kills Spurstalk :lmao
bonner a spurs lifer tbh

[Mel_13]

:pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

:lol

The Bonner Era continues.

[cd98]

This Bonner stuff ... troubling.

And this bit about LJC.... hmmm. Could it be a buyout issue? Could ASVEL be turning into the new Vittoria and try to jerk the Spurs around?

Or could it be something else, I wonder ...

judging by his summer league play, maybe Spurs are looking for a way to cut and run.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Bonner, that's a step in getting younger and more athletic all right. Need his corporate knowledge and to help keep that culture going.

He is younger than Tim, and with two good knees, there is also a slim chance that he is more athletic.

[Snaq O'Meal]

judging by his summer league play, maybe Spurs are looking for a way to cut and run.

He belongs in ASVEL. Sadly, the NBA will simply overwhelm him.

[objective]

judging by his summer league play, maybe Spurs are looking for a way to cut and run.

I don't know ... RC expects him on the roster ...

It's a mystery.

[TheGreatYacht]

I hope Sam Presti magically comes back and takes over as GM. This drunk just keeps making shit worse.

1) trying to get more athletic and younger, doesn't rule out bringing Bonner back.
2) Doesn't want to look foolish with the LJC pick, so he's forcing his scrub ass on the team.
3) He sucks at drafting.
4) So many free agents are signing for the vets min while this dude is in Vegas getting drunk.
5) got cucked by Philly in the Manu signing

[DPG21920]

I don't really see a benefit to haggling with LJC - but I don't really care either. I have 0 hope that LJC does anything good for SA this year.

I've never seen a guy be so paper thin on screen setting:

https://media.giphy.com/media/czh9DVze5ZvDG/giphy.gif

[timtonymanu]

Manu should be the only really old player on the team. Fuck that Bonner nonsense.

[ceperez]

I don't know ... RC expects him on the roster ...

It's a mystery.

That's the biggest mystery.

I used to think that he was loaded with potential. Unfortunately, he hasn't progressed on bit since he was drafted.

[GSH]

He is younger than Tim, and with two good knees, there is also a slim chance that he is more athletic.

I will never forget that playoff series against Memphis, where Bonner became a fucking matador on defense. It's burned into my memory, and I don't remember another incident as sickening while watching the Spurs. Manu fouling Dirk was ugly, but at least he was competing. But I swear I kept expecting to hear the crowd yell "Toro!" every time Bonner let someone blow past him.

I was one of very few Bonner defenders up until that series. I never wanted to see him on the floor ever again after that.

[ElNono]

And this bit about LJC.... hmmm. Could it be a buyout issue? Could ASVEL be turning into the new Vittoria and try to jerk the Spurs around?

If we only would be so lucky.

[ElNono]

I will never forget that playoff series against Memphis, where Bonner became a fucking matador on defense. It's burned into my memory, and I don't remember another incident as sickening while watching the Spurs. Manu fouling Dirk was ugly, but at least he was competing. But I swear I kept expecting to hear the crowd yell "Toro!" every time Bonner let someone blow past him.

I was one of very few Bonner defenders up until that series. I never wanted to see him on the floor ever again after that.

I remember that. Thiago Splitter was watching from the bench too.

[ceperez]

Manu should be the only really old player on the team. Fuck that Bonner nonsense.

Looks like this Bonner nonsense will continue. Spurs have run out of veterans PF to sign. The only ones left look like folks that will take the vet. minimum. Given so much youth in the team, maybe a Bonner who knows the system may be the best option.

Unfortunate, but that's reality. R.C. just telegraphed his intentions.

[noles1983]

if that faggot bonner is on the roster i will not watch a single game this year. thats a promise

[TheGreatYacht]

Starting to think he wasn't even attempting to call any of these cheap PF's signing for the vets min, just to have an excuse to sign the ginger fuck :lol

Some PATFO sucker is going to fall for it too, just watch.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm a little surprised the Spurs didn't offer Jones a contract especially for the minimum. He does have upside still, and would of been a low risk, high reward type of deal. Though I believe I remember reading on clutch fans that I believe Jones doesn't like Aldridge when Houston was trying to go after him last summer.

We don't know that Spurs didn't offer Jones a contract. There's a chance Jones had several offers (including the Spurs) similar to Pelicans' offer and he probably just thought he'd have the most opportunity to cash in next summer with the departure of Ryan Anderson.

[Seventyniner]

i would trade parker for a bag of doritos. anything more is a bonus

Trade him for who? And why would the other team say yes? Who takes Tony's minutes, and why would that be an improvement?

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't really see a benefit to haggling with LJC - but I don't really care either. I have 0 hope that LJC does anything good for SA this year.

I've never seen a guy be so paper thin on screen setting:

https://media.giphy.com/media/czh9DVze5ZvDG/giphy.gif

I haven't been impressed with LJC either, short sample size but based off summer league he's not a NBA player -- not even close.

[ceperez]

I haven't been impressed with LJC either, short sample size but based off summer league he's not a NBA player -- not even close.

He doesn't even look like a good D-league player.

[noles1983]

Trade him for who? And why would the other team say yes? Who takes Tony's minutes, and why would that be an improvement?

don't care who, i just want his contract off the books for next year.

[MaNu4Tres]

Can Spurs just cut ties with LJC, sign Bass and Seraphin to minimum and leave the last roster spot open.

Parker/Mills/ Murray
Green/Manu/*Simmons
Kawhi/ Bertans/*Simmons
Aldridge/Anderson/Bass
Gasol/Dedmon/ Seraphin

[dbestpro]

I guess this is the year the Spurs make up for the big three money wise, and say see you in 2017-18.

[playbonner15]

I guess this is the year the Spurs make up for the big three money wise, and say see you in 2017-18.
welp :depressed. They deserve to be paid though

[ceperez]

Welcome to the final Spurs roster:

Parker / Green / Leonard / Aldridge / Gasol
Mills / Giniobili / Bertans / Anderson / Dedmon
Arcidacono / Forbes / Murray / Jean-Charles / Bonner

[Kawhitstorm]

We don't know that Spurs didn't offer Jones a contract. There's a chance Jones had several offers (including the Spurs) similar to Pelicans' offer and he probably just thought he'd have the most opportunity to cash in next summer with the departure of Ryan Anderson.

T-Jones basically wanted to play w/ his college teammate, Anthony Davis. (He'll most likely start)

[Kawhitstorm]

Can Spurs just cut ties with LJC, sign Bass and Seraphin to minimum and leave the last roster spot open.

Parker/Mills/ Murray
Green/Manu/*Simmons
Kawhi/ Bertans/*Simmons
Aldridge/Anderson/Bass
Gasol/Dedmon/ Seraphin

Seraphin is most likely going to the Knicks since he can be the 3rd big & Bass is kicking himself for opting out of a 3 mill guarantee.

[ceperez]

Can Spurs just cut ties with LJC, sign Bass and Seraphin to minimum and leave the last roster spot open.

Parker/Mills/ Murray
Green/Manu/*Simmons
Kawhi/ Bertans/*Simmons
Aldridge/Anderson/Bass
Gasol/Dedmon/ Seraphin

I like that plan.

[montgod]

Acy just signed with Mavs, 2 yrs

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/14/report-mavericks-reach-two-year-deal-with-reserve-forward-quincy-acy/

[Snaq O'Meal]

T-Jones basically wanted to play w/ his college teammate, Anthony Davis. (He'll most likely start)

Which is his most likely reason for choosing the Pelicans.

On the Spurs, he'll clearly be Aldridge's backup.

[ceperez]

Acy just signed with Mavs, 2 yrs

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/14/report-mavericks-reach-two-year-deal-with-reserve-forward-quincy-acy/

Another vet. min. guy that did not sign with the Spurs.

Sounds like Spurs aren't interested in other vet. minimum players.... it is as if they've already completed their roster.... Bonner I guess is in.

[JuneJive]

What's with all the spilt ink over Manu's money.

The realistic market price was definetly over 5.5M, right? In any universe? So giving him however much more doesn't mean shit to us. Cap wise.

Holt's wife / Pych / R.C. approved of it, money wise, so, good for Manu. One more year, friend.

[MaNu4Tres]

Seraphin is most likely going to the Knicks since he can be the 3rd big & Bass is kicking himself for opting out of a 3 mill guarantee.

If that's the case w/ Seraphin, there's still several better options for minimum than LJC. For centers: Henry Sims, Amare Stoudamire, Robert Sacre, Felton Spencer, Mengke Bateer, Cherokee Parks. For Power Forwards: Thomas Robinson, Jason Thompson, David Lee, Hickson, Hansbrough, Gerard King, Cadillac Anderson, David Wood. Hell the list goes on.

[objective]

I thought Seraphin trash talked the Knicks org on his way out? Or was that the wizards the year before?

[MaNu4Tres]

Another vet. min. guy that did not sign with the Spurs.

Sounds like Spurs aren't interested in other vet. minimum players.... it is as if they've already completed their roster.... Bonner I guess is in.

You do realize that just because a player signs somewhere else for the minimum, it doesn't mean Spurs didn't make an offer. Sometimes players prefer other places for several different reasons if money is all equal.

[Hoops Czar]

If that's the case w/ Seraphin, there's still several better options for minimum than LJC. For centers: Henry Sims, Amare Stoudamire, Robert Sacre, Felton Spencer, Mengke Bateer, Cherokee Parks. For Power Forwards: Thomas Robinson, Jason Thompson, David Lee, Hickson, Hansbrough, Gerard King, Cadillac Anderson, David Wood. Hell the list goes on.

Cherokee Parks is 43 years old and hasn't played in the league since 2004. :lol

[DPG21920]

Cherokee Parks is 43 years old and hasn't played in the league since 2004. :lol

That's the joke my friend..

[MaNu4Tres]

Cherokee Parks is 43 years old and hasn't played in the league since 2004. :lol

Still a better option.. tbh..

[Hoops Czar]

That's the joke my friend..


Still a better option.. tbh..

I've only seen him in two summer league games. I didn't realize he was that bad. :lol

[SAGirl]

LOL... I don't know how much money I would have to have to leave $15M on the table, but it would have to be one hell of a lot. As it is, he left "just" $4M on the table, for the privilege of playing for the Spurs one more season. We all talk about how guys should give up a shitload of money out of loyalty. I doubt many of us would actually do it - especially if we knew it was our last chance for that kind of paycheck. I don't know that the whole thing requires any deep analysis.

But that's a really cool segue into a Kyle reference. :toast
It was a friendly nudge intended for ElNono (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8054), known Kyle troll, that his favorite player could have chosen different teammates but at a cost to his pocket. All things considered, perhaps Kyle wasn't such a bad teammate after all if Manu could get paid. I intend to remind Nono about this every time he whines through the season about the bench.

[Chinook]

LJC isn't getting cut in camp. And for god's sake, neither is Simmons. Only bright side to all this is that no one hates Anderson anymore. Well, basically no one.

[TheGreatYacht]

LJC isn't getting cut in camp. And for god's sake, neither is Simmons. Only bright side to all this is that no one hates Anderson anymore. Well, basically no one.
They're feeling the Summer League hype right now, but they'll come back when he plays in an NBA game against NBA players

[MaNu4Tres]

LJC isn't getting cut in camp. And for god's sake, neither is Simmons. Only bright side to all this is that no one hates Anderson anymore. Well, basically no one.

I don't like Anderson either. Hate him for being good enough to give me hope, but not good enough to give me comfortable optimism . He's stuck in that area.

[SAGirl]

Welcome to the final Spurs roster:

Parker / Green / Leonard / Aldridge / Gasol
Mills / Giniobili / Bertans / Anderson / Dedmon
Arcidacono / Forbes / Murray / Jean-Charles / Bonner
Where is Simmons there? I don't think he's getting cut.

[Chinook]

Where is Simmons there? I don't think he's getting cut.

And I don't see both Magazine and Arch Deacon making the team.

[Hoops Czar]

I don't like Anderson either. Hate him for being good enough to give me hope, but not good enough to give me comfortable optimism . He's stuck in that area.

Boom!! top 10 post right here.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

That's the joke my friend..

You suck McBain!!!