Kawhi-critical Buck Harvey hit job

[itzsoweezee]

This had to have been sanctioned by Popovich, right? I've never seen an express news article critical of a player currently on the roster.

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Upon-further-review-Leonard-took-a-step-back-7391437.php?t=693608b37a927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium
....
The same Kawhi Leonard who displayed his MVP-caliber status in the series opener looked like he did a year ago. He went back in time, to the final games of the Clippers series, lifeless and out of rhythm. He scored one bucket in the fourth quarter, when two would have won the game.
....

[HarlemHeat37]

Eh, he's a star player now, he didn't show up down the stretch of game 2, tbh, he deserves blame for it..it comes with the territory of being a star, he's going to finish #2 or 3 in MVP voting, he has to play like it..

[Chris]

Maybe the referees are in his head

[TheGreatYacht]

Matt Barnes left his scent at the ATT Center. That has to be it

[xtremesteven33]

Ive said before in order for me to call Kawhi Leonard a "Superstar" i would need to see him take over a playoff game and/or series. As Lamarcus Aldridge has done thus far.

[SAGirl]

Not a bad article overall.

[Mugen]

Nothing wrong with the article. Kawhi deserves criticism for that performance now that he's the best player on the team. He needs to show up big in OKC or he'll be criticized more, comes with the territory.

Also, good to see the local media nut up and write a genuine article. It's not like it was a "Mr. Unreliable" scenario tbh.

[timtonymanu]

Kinda would be nice to see an article on Pop's terrible coaching in that game too.

[SpursFan86]

Kinda would be nice to see an article on Pop's terrible coaching in that game too.

Yeah, Pop and Kawhi both deserve the brunt of the criticism. Unfortunately most of the media thinks Pop is infallible.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kinda would be nice to see an article on Pop's terrible coaching in that game too.

:lol you could kidnap the kids of all SA media members and tell them you'll release them if they write an anti-Pop article, and they still wouldn't do it, tbh..

[spursistan]

Yep, as Harlem said, it comes with his new-found status...It is on him, he is not a role player anymore..In past even when the Spurs lost, TD came down swinging in elimination games with few legendary performances going to waste..You can always count on Duncan monster 30pts/15 reb even if the rest of the team came up short..

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Kinda would be nice to see an article on Pop's terrible coaching in that game too.

Yep...

[HI-FI]

Kinda would be nice to see an article on Pop's terrible coaching in that game too.
this. I'd love to see it, just because he glowers at them like an asshole when he deserves blame too.

[timtonymanu]

:lol you could kidnap the kids of all SA media members and tell them you'll release them if they write an anti-Pop article, and they still wouldn't do it, tbh..

True. :lol One of Pop's most frustrating games. The other time was last year when he did Hack a Jordan when the Spurs were up.

[look_at_g_shred]

The thing I noticed with Kawhi last game (and it could be every game he under performs) is when he catches the ball he lets the defender get in position before making a move. If the dude would just make his move as soon as he gets the ball, he'd get whatever he wants. There's literally a few people in the NBA who could stop him ( and he is one of them) Yeah but there is definitely no excuse for coming up short when fucking Dion Waiters is guarding you.. Dude better come to play Friday!

[peacemaker885]

Eh, he's a star player now, he didn't show up down the stretch of game 2, tbh, he deserves blame for it..it comes with the territory of being a star, he's going to finish #2 or 3 in MVP voting, he has to play like it..

[midnightpulp]

Yep. As I said in the other thread, these are defining games. Can't live off "King Killer" status forever. It's time to kill the league's other stars now. Durant, Westbrook, and go head-to-head with Wardell or shit on Raymond if we get that far.

I want it badly for him. I really do. But there's just something that nags me about his offensive skill-set. I think it's the over-reliance on the mid-post/mid-range and the lack of a top flight dribble-drive/off the dribble game. Kawhi has indeed exceeded my expectations offensively. I thought he'd top out as an 18-20ppg guy, but can he reach that next level? The kind of level that when everyone is scared shitless, Kawhi wills the team with a 35-40 point effort, like vintage Duncan used to do, or even like LMA is doing now?

[DarrinS]

Matt Barnes left his scent at the ATT Center. That has to be it

^Faggot post

[DarrinS]

Kawhi is a max player and should be criticized if warranted.

[objective]

Buck knows he can't criticize Pop's bad choices in game. He knows how hard it would be to find work in print media when he gets Kevin O'Keefe'd.

[Budkin]

Yeah, Pop and Kawhi both deserve the brunt of the criticism. Unfortunately most of the media thinks Pop is infallible.

Exactly, I mean it's great that we have Pop, but I roll my eyes every time I hear him called a coaching genius. He's been fucking out-coached by some shitty ass coaches before.

[Ice009]

Ive said before in order for me to call Kawhi Leonard a "Superstar" i would need to see him take over a playoff game and/or series. As Lamarcus Aldridge has done thus far.

Yep. I said something similar a few weeks ago after one of the Goldenstate games. Kawhi needs to be much better offensively and more consistent with the game on the line for me to call him a true superstar. I recall in some losses where Tim's teammates didn't show up, he'd have something like 30 and 15, and then still take the blame for the loss. Kawhi's nowhere near that. He needs to step up big time.

Sure, he's a great all around player (it's the only reason he's in the top 2-5 range right now IMO), but that doesn't mean you're a superstar if you can't do it on the offensive end when the pressure to perform is on. If it were only based on his current offensive game and disappearance acts, he's not a top 5 player. He needs to get more aggressive and get to the rim and start taking over. No more of settling for those silly jump shots all the time. He really needs to mix it up like LaMarcus is doing. Go both inside and outside and stop settling for jumpers. If his jumper is not on, he needs to learn to get to the rim and finish. Mix it up and get more aggressive mentally. Stop checking out.

[SpursFan86]

Exactly, I mean it's great that we have Pop, but I roll my eyes every time I hear him called a coaching genius. He's been fucking out-coached by some shitty ass coaches before.

I mean he is a coaching genius and a top 3 coach of all-time...but that doesn't mean the guy never fucks up and shouldn't be called out on it when he does. If any other coach trotted out that bullshit lineup Pop did to start the 4th, the media would jump their ass and point to that as a main reason the team lost.

[Budkin]

I mean he is a coaching genius and a top 3 coach of all-time...but that doesn't mean the guy never fucks up and shouldn't be called out on it when he does. If any other coach trotted out that bullshit lineup Pop did to start the 4th, the media would jump their ass and point to that as a main reason the team lost.

It's Pop's stubbornness that gets him into trouble. Everyone could tell right away that lineup was shit, but yet he kept it going way too long.

[SpursFan86]

It's Pop's stubbornness that gets him into trouble. Everyone could tell right away that lineup was shit, but yet he kept it going way too long.

I said this in another topic, but what amazes me the most is how he even doubled down on the ridiculousness. After LMA/Kawhi got us all the momentum and got it to a 1-point game going into the 4th, he goes to a Mills/Manu/Green/Diaw/West lineup. Alright, fine, whatever. Then OKC immediately comes out and builds their lead back again, and then what does Pop do? Brings in fucking Kyle Anderson and subs out Manu :lmao

[Snaq O'Meal]

It's Pop's stubbornness that gets him into trouble. Everyone could tell right away that lineup was shit, but yet he kept it going way too long.

And Pop will keep on pounding that rock. It's always been his philosophy.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Nothing wrong with the article. Kawhi deserves criticism for that performance now that he's the best player on the team.

He's still not the best offensive player on the team. LMA is, and the smart thing for the team to do is to pass him the ball.

[GSH]

If he was playing in NY, that would be considered a fluff piece.

[LakerHater]

was hardly any passin, weaves, slashes or motion!
Was alota ISO & dump downs!

[maverick1948]

No it is not good to blame Kawhi for the loss. 18 for 47 38% from the rest of the team beside Aldridge, Leonard, and MANUUUUUUU..

NOT NO BUT HELL NO it wasn't Kawhi's fault. Buck Harvey was looking for someone big to blame and choose Kawhi when he should have looked at Duncan, Parker, Green and the bench.

[BillMc]

I mean he is a coaching genius and a top 3 coach of all-time...but that doesn't mean the guy never fucks up and shouldn't be called out on it when he does. If any other coach trotted out that bullshit lineup Pop did to start the 4th, the media would jump their ass and point to that as a main reason the team lost.

I really think that lineup cost us the game. We were down 1 with all the momentum and that lineup took it to 11 I think. (Maybe 9?) One of Kawhi or LMA must be on the court at all times. I'm worried Kawhi's relatively low minutes for a 24 year old means Pop's protecting him from aggravating some injury. Either that, or the price of his great defense, is more rest.

[GSH]

I'm worried Kawhi's relatively low minutes for a 24 year old means Pop's protecting him from aggravating some injury. Either that, or the price of his great defense, is more rest.


Not just his low minutes - his low energy. I said it in the game thread, it looked like one of those games where you find out later he had flu or something. But they don't want to make excuses, so they don't say anything till the season is over.

I don't doubt Kawhi's heart, or his motivation. So I have to think it was something else. There's no doubt that if the Spurs have Kawhi as his normal self, that game looks a lot different. People can be defensive or butthurt al they want, but that didn't look like the Kawhi we are used to seeing. And not just because shots didn't fall.

[BillMc]

Not just his low minutes - his low energy. I said it in the game thread, it looked like one of those games where you find out later he had flu or something. But they don't want to make excuses, so they don't say anything till the season is over.

I don't doubt Kawhi's heart, or his motivation. So I have to think it was something else. There's no doubt that if the Spurs have Kawhi as his normal self, that game looks a lot different. People can be defensive or butthurt al they want, but that didn't look like the Kawhi we are used to seeing. And not just because shots didn't fall.

Well, if it was a flu or anything relatively temporary like that, the long delay between Games 2 and 3 might be a blessing in disguise. (Though I don't want LMA to cool off...)

Maybe Kawhi went to the dentist again? :D

[DMC]

Yeah, Pop and Kawhi both deserve the brunt of the criticism. Unfortunately most of the media thinks Pop is infallible.
No they don't. They just know the history of criticizing Pop, how it affects access privileges and even jobs.

[Kawhitstorm]

Yep, as Harlem said, it comes with his new-found status...It is on him, he is not a role player anymore..In past even when the Spurs lost, TD came down swinging in elimination games with few legendary performances going to waste..You can always count on Duncan monster 30pts/15 reb even if the rest of the team came up short..

Kawhi is basically '07-'08 KG status who was the best two-way player in the league (finished 3rd in MVP behind CP3/Kirby) but not necessarily even the best offensive player on his own team. The OKC matchup is similar to what KG faced in the 2008 Finals when he had to deal w/ Pau/Odom w/ help from Perkins just as Kawhi has to deal w/ KD/WB w/ help from Danny.

In the '08 Finals, KG's offense suffered but Ray Allen went nuclear just like LMA is going nuclear against OKC. The difference was that the Celtics had a point-forward in Pierce meanwhile the Spurs have 38 year old Manu as their best playmaker.:lol Otherwise, Tim/Tony/Danny/West/Patty/Diaw are basically Perk/Rondo/Posey/PJ/House/Powe.

[Kawhitstorm]

The thing I noticed with Kawhi last game (and it could be every game he under performs) is when he catches the ball he lets the defender get in position before making a move. If the dude would just make his move as soon as he gets the ball, he'd get whatever he wants. There's literally a few people in the NBA who could stop him ( and he is one of them) Yeah but there is definitely no excuse for coming up short when fucking Dion Waiters is guarding you.. Dude better come to play Friday!

That's called being indecisive, when Kahwi is locked-in he usually starts the game with a strong move to the basket instead of settling for jumpers. There have been couple of occasions where Kawhi got a dunk on his opening possession & dominated the game thereafter.

2wek2Hw6qgM

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Kawhi is the Klay Thompson of the Spurs. He's fine as long as he's the second fiddle but struggles when he's the main guy. He had the Big Three early in his career and now Aldridge. He's still young and hopefully he can overcome his shortcomings. But I don't think he can main a franchise player. One that opposing teams set their defense against. It looks like Aldridge may have to fulfill that role for next several years

[HI-FI]

Not just his low minutes - his low energy. I said it in the game thread, it looked like one of those games where you find out later he had flu or something. But they don't want to make excuses, so they don't say anything till the season is over.

I don't doubt Kawhi's heart, or his motivation. So I have to think it was something else. There's no doubt that if the Spurs have Kawhi as his normal self, that game looks a lot different. People can be defensive or butthurt al they want, but that didn't look like the Kawhi we are used to seeing. And not just because shots didn't fall.
Others have mentioned it, and it's something I worried about from game 1, is if Kawhi aggravated something with that early dunk and fall. He seemed like he didn't want to go full blast in game 2. Hopefully Kawhi will be fine and heal up with the time off, whatever it may be.

[rasuo214]

Kawhi has one bad game and people are jumping on him as if he's Derozan or Lowry. Bad games happen, if it becomes more than a 1 or 2 game thing then it's an issue.

[Mnky]

When you lose by a couple points, it's not the coaching. It's who wanted it more from the players. Always has been.

[Kawhitstorm]

When you lose by a couple points, it's not the coaching. It's who wanted it more from the players. Always has been.

:lmao

Actually, when you lose by a couple of points then it's most likely the coaches fault. On the other hand, if the team gets blownout then the players are to blame.

[Kawhitstorm]

Kawhi has one bad game and people are jumping on him as if he's Derozan or Lowry. Bad games happen, if it becomes more than a 1 or 2 game thing then it's an issue.

Durant had a 7-33 game against the Mavs so it does happen, the only issue was that he kept settling for jumpers instead of putting his head down & driving to the rack.

[RD2191]

No it is not good to blame Kawhi for the loss. 18 for 47 38% from the rest of the team beside Aldridge, Leonard, and MANUUUUUUU..

NOT NO BUT HELL NO it wasn't Kawhi's fault. Buck Harvey was looking for someone big to blame and choose Kawhi when he should have looked at Duncan, Parker, Green and the bench.
Bold this man.

[RD2191]

Yep. I said something similar a few weeks ago after one of the Goldenstate games. Kawhi needs to be much better offensively and more consistent with the game on the line for me to call him a true superstar. I recall in some losses where Tim's teammates didn't show up, he'd have something like 30 and 15, and then still take the blame for the loss. Kawhi's nowhere near that. He needs to step up big time.

Sure, he's a great all around player (it's the only reason he's in the top 2-5 range right now IMO), but that doesn't mean you're a superstar if you can't do it on the offensive end when the pressure to perform is on. If it were only based on his current offensive game and disappearance acts, he's not a top 5 player. He needs to get more aggressive and get to the rim and start taking over. No more of settling for those silly jump shots all the time. He really needs to mix it up like LaMarcus is doing. Go both inside and outside and stop settling for jumpers. If his jumper is not on, he needs to learn to get to the rim and finish. Mix it up and get more aggressive mentally. Stop checking out.
Lol. Stfu cocksucker. There are 2 sides of the ball. What do the current great offensive players have to show for it? KD and Harden been stacking them rings huh? I oughta find you kick your ass for being so fucking stupid.

[RD2191]

Kawhi is the Klay Thompson of the Spurs. He's fine as long as he's the second fiddle but struggles when he's the main guy. He had the Big Three early in his career and now Aldridge. He's still young and hopefully he can overcome his shortcomings. But I don't think he can main a franchise player. One that opposing teams set their defense against. It looks like Aldridge may have to fulfill that role for next several years

What shortcomings? Please name a more complete player in the NBA.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Bold this man.

Bold a man that wants to blame a 40 year old for the loss? Bold pink, maybe.

[tholdren]

Eh, he's a star player now, he didn't show up down the stretch of game 2, tbh, he deserves blame for it..it comes with the territory of being a star, he's going to finish #2 or 3 in MVP voting, he has to play like it..
he never has

[tholdren]

What shortcomings? Please name a more complete player in the NBA.
crumbles in big games

[cutewizard]

is it possible that Kawhi is not that good?

dont take me wrong, Kawhi is the best defender on Earth, one-on-one,

yet there are many intangibles to being a superstar:

One, leadership and presence in crucial moments (Duncan and Manu have this, like the all-time greats)

Two, the ability to make his teammates better (i do not know if Kawhi has this in great amounts)

Three, Offensive execution in clutch moments (well, Kawhi has done it once or twice; MJ and Bird do it regularly)

Four, the ability to diagnose the tempo of a game and influence it accordingly (again, I do not know if Kawhi has this)

Fifth, consistency and the ability to maintain his greatness over long periods (which our boy sadly lack)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

having said that.....hmmmm.....we still believe!

:bobo

[cutewizard]

Kawhi is the Klay Thompson of the Spurs. He's fine as long as he's the second fiddle but struggles when he's the main guy. He had the Big Three early in his career and now Aldridge. He's still young and hopefully he can overcome his shortcomings. But I don't think he can main a franchise player. One that opposing teams set their defense against. It looks like Aldridge may have to fulfill that role for next several years


_------------------------------------------------------------\

im one of those who keep repeating.....

LAMARCUS IS OUR ALPHA, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT....

no debate here......

[YGWHI]

Durant had a 7-33 game against the Mavs so it does happen
Kawhi was 7-18 last game...Can't imagine this forum if he had 7-33 :lol


he needs to learn to get to the rim and finish

the only issue was that he kept settling for jumpers instead of putting his head down & driving to the rack.
If something has shown this series if how much Kawhi improved his driving, he showed strong moves to the rim...But not sure if the team is designed for that.

Look where is LMA and the other big, where is Parker...when Kawhi has the ball. It's not like the team is giving him the space or calling plays for him to attack the rim.

Agree with you, he wouldn't set for jumpers that often if those shots aren't falling...but he can't drive very often either, not if the team don't play for those drives.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi is the Klay Thompson of the Spurs.
Stop trolling :lol
Thompson struggled in the Finals, Kawhi played two Finals and some of those games were his best playoffs performances. 2013 defensively, 2014 on both ends.
Remember when you said he coudn't be the leading scorer on a good team? Well, he was that guy on the Spurs historic-best- regular-season team.

[YGWHI]

Ive said before in order for me to call Kawhi Leonard a "Superstar" i would need to see him take over a playoff game

I thought he'd top out as an 18-20ppg guy, but can he reach that next level? The kind of level that when everyone is scared shitless, Kawhi wills the team with a 35-40 point effort, like vintage Duncan used to do, or even like LMA is doing now?

Sure, he's a great all around player (it's the only reason he's in the top 2-5 range right now IMO), but that doesn't mean you're a superstar if you can't do it on the offensive end when the pressure to perform is on.

Like Kawhi never took over a pressure-close game in playoffs...

Just look his game 3 in Memphis, the only game of the series the Grizz could compete (96-87). Yep, just a poor team but with the best 2nd/3rd perimter defender in the league on Kawhi.

LMA 16 points, Parker 2 points (1-8), Patty 4 points (1-5), nothing worked well...except Kawhi, who was making shots from every spot on the floor in the 4th quarter.

32 points 5 blocks 4 steals sounds a big-time performance in playoffs

If he can have this type of games consistently...Next years we'll know it. This was the first season for him being the main guy and he has not reached his prime yet.

[UZER]

No they don't. They just know the history of criticizing Pop, how it affects access privileges and even jobs.

Exactly. For all the "get over yourself" talk, Pop runs the local media like Stalin.

[Gervin44Silas13]

Yeah, Pop and Kawhi both deserve the brunt of the criticism. Unfortunately most of the media thinks Pop is infallible.

Problem is our media is too fucken nice, they dont want to be critical of OUR SPURS.

Tough shit....maybe if the media did this theyed grow a few balls and play better!!!!!

[Gervin44Silas13]

is it possible that Kawhi is not that good?

dont take me wrong, Kawhi is the best defender on Earth, one-on-one,

yet there are many intangibles to being a superstar:

One, leadership and presence in crucial moments (Duncan and Manu have this, like the all-time greats)

Two, the ability to make his teammates better (i do not know if Kawhi has this in great amounts)

Three, Offensive execution in clutch moments (well, Kawhi has done it once or twice; MJ and Bird do it regularly)

Four, the ability to diagnose the tempo of a game and influence it accordingly (again, I do not know if Kawhi has this)

Fifth, consistency and the ability to maintain his greatness over long periods (which our boy sadly lack)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

having said that.....hmmmm.....we still believe!

:bobo

He's too Fucken quite boy needs to grow a few balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hater]

When you lose at home and you the MVP of your team. And you played mediocre or worse. It's on you.

[SPURt]

I said this in another topic, but what amazes me the most is how he even doubled down on the ridiculousness. After LMA/Kawhi got us all the momentum and got it to a 1-point game going into the 4th, he goes to a Mills/Manu/Green/Diaw/West lineup. Alright, fine, whatever. Then OKC immediately comes out and builds their lead back again, and then what does Pop do? Brings in fucking Kyle Anderson and subs out Manu :lmao
This was the most frustrating/head scratching moment of the night for me. The refs suck, but that can't be controlled by the Spurs. This move should never have happened.

[NameLess Scrub]

Just wanna say, Kawhi took a horrible 3pt shot with the game on the line.
I'm not sure what he wast thinking.

[NameLess Scrub]

Maybe the referees are in his head

I think this needs to be given consideration. He kind of looks frustrated when he starts being aggressive but he doesn't get calls.

He might be mentally affected and favoring more the jumpers or passes to try to help instead of just missing or losing the ball, or become indecisive.

[TheDoctor]

SAEN's own "Mr Unreliable".

[ceperez]

Ideally, Kawhi just need to go bonkers and take over the series on both ends of the court.

In reality, he's still a developing player and as much as I would like him to take over, my expectation is much lower.

[kaji157]

When you lose at home and you the MVP of your team. And you played mediocre or worse. It's on you.

This, the article is well written and deserving, you can blame Pop, or Manu, or Parker, but at the end of the day if you are the MVP and couldn´t crack 20 points against Waiters (or Barnes for the matter) then it´s on you first and then the rest.

The thing about the refs being on their head is ridiculous, Ginobili didn´t earn refs respect right away, Parker didn´t either, maybe Duncan did, i am not sure, but big men usually also have trouble getting calls.

The refs excuse is just that, and excuse.

If Kawhi continues to play like this the Spurs won´t be able to beat Okc, simple as that, even if Pop becomes a genius coach, Aldridge gets on fire, or Manu makes all the correct plays, when a 20 shot players shits the bed on consistent basis you are done as a team.

[313]

is it possible that Kawhi is not that good?

dont take me wrong, Kawhi is the best defender on Earth, one-on-one,

yet there are many intangibles to being a superstar:

One, leadership and presence in crucial moments (Duncan and Manu have this, like the all-time greats)

Two, the ability to make his teammates better (i do not know if Kawhi has this in great amounts)

Three, Offensive execution in clutch moments (well, Kawhi has done it once or twice; MJ and Bird do it regularly)

Four, the ability to diagnose the tempo of a game and influence it accordingly (again, I do not know if Kawhi has this)

Fifth, consistency and the ability to maintain his greatness over long periods (which our boy sadly lack)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

having said that.....hmmmm.....we still believe!

:bobo
True. Wanker is overrated

[coachmac87]

Taking 18 shots and only 2 FTs is a problem..

[hater]

Ideally, Kawhi just need to go bonkers and take over the series on both ends of the court.

In reality, he's still a developing player and as much as I would like him to take over, my expectation is much lower.

That has zero chance of happening. And no. When he got MvP trophy in that final series our entire team was playing lights out. Kawhi never carried a team through a series

[look_at_g_shred]

We all know how good Kawhi can be. It's infuriating when he doesn't play to his potential.

[tmtcsc]

I hate the Spurs' offense. It's ugly. When the Spurs shared the ball via The Beautiful Game, they were almost unstoppable. I'm fine with the team taking less 3 pointers and moving toward more of a mid-range scoring team.

HOWEVER - They still need to move the ball to create open shots. This team isn't there right now. Relying on 1 player like they did in the last game is not a recipe for success. Kawhi needs to be involved, LA needs to remain a threat but the back court needs to get more involved to keep defenses honest. When you rely on 1 or 2 players for offense, you become stagnant, predictable and teammates become less accountable. There is less ownership on the court from the other guys and then nobody steps up because they don't feel comfortable doing so.

My hope is that the team shares the ball but doesn't over-pass. If LA doesn't get the ball down low, I hope he's ready to grab a rebound. Tim needs to at least pretend to be an offensive threat. In these playoffs he has received the ball and then immediately looked to pass.

[Spur|n|Austin]

He's too Fucken quite boy needs to grow a few balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many balls do you think he should have?

[EIC]

The thing I noticed with Kawhi last game (and it could be every game he under performs) is when he catches the ball he lets the defender get in position before making a move. If the dude would just make his move as soon as he gets the ball, he'd get whatever he wants. There's literally a few people in the NBA who could stop him ( and he is one of them) Yeah but there is definitely no excuse for coming up short when fucking Dion Waiters is guarding you.. Dude better come to play Friday!

Not sure, tbh.

The biggest thing holding Kawhi back on the offensive end (besides his lack of killer instinct) is his lack of handles. The same big hands that make him a great defender are a liability when he puts the ball on the floor. He just does not have confidence in his dribble and it shows. If you think about it, Kawhi's best historic offensive plays are of the catch-and-shoot variety or throw-down dunks when he's unimpeded to the basket or is already there when he gets the ball.

[midnightpulp]

Like Kawhi never took over a pressure-close game in playoffs...

Just look his game 3 in Memphis, the only game of the series the Grizz could compete (96-87). Yep, just a poor team but with the best 2nd/3rd perimter defender in the league on Kawhi.

LMA 16 points, Parker 2 points (1-8), Patty 4 points (1-5), nothing worked well...except Kawhi, who was making shots from every spot on the floor in the 4th quarter.

32 points 5 blocks 4 steals sounds a big-time performance in playoffs

If he can have this type of games consistently...Next years we'll know it. This was the first season for him being the main guy and he has not reached his prime yet.

Memphis was a lottery team. As good as Kawhi was in that series, there was no pressure. The series was a foregone conclusion. And as I said, he can't live off the 2014 Finals forever. Time to add to his legacy.

What I want is a Duncan '03, game 6 in LA against the Lakers type of performance. A complete takeover on both ends that just kills the other team mentally. And as I also said, doesn't need to necessarily drop 40. Just give us a "Kawhi game," 25 points on efficient shooting, 8-10 boards, 4 dimes, 3 steals, 2 blocks, and hold Durant/Westbrook in check when he's on them.

Durant called him a system player. Waiters is saying the Spurs are a one man team. Kawhi has all the incentive to shut their asses up for good. These are defining games coming up. Games in which superstars step up and deliver.

[DaBears]

Does Anyone suspect Kawhi Leonard of maybe being hurt with his hamstring, after the fall on the 1st play of the game. He didnt look that spry in gm 2.. And not being able to beat his man off the dribble like he normally can.. Would explain his shot misses among other things.. I do not want to short change Roberson or Waiters, but they are not type flight defenders who should be able to contain KL.. Anyways let me know if anyone had the same thought.. I hadn't seen it reported or written anywhere.

[Ice009]

Lol. Stfu cocksucker. There are 2 sides of the ball. What do the current great offensive players have to show for it? KD and Harden been stacking them rings huh? I oughta find you kick your ass for being so fucking stupid.

lol. I will smash you head to a pulp. You've got no chance.

Now that we have the pleasantries out of the way - the main reason Jordan, Hakeem, TD, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron are considered superstars is because of what they do/did on the offensive side of the ball. If they played zero defense, they'd still be superstars and that is because they carry their team offensively and usually come though in the 4th quarter when their teams needed the points. You don't have to be a super defender and offensive player to be a superstar, but you do need to be good on offense if you're going to carry your team to wins.


Like Kawhi never took over a pressure-close game in playoffs...

Just look his game 3 in Memphis, the only game of the series the Grizz could compete (96-87). Yep, just a poor team but with the best 2nd/3rd perimter defender in the league on Kawhi.

LMA 16 points, Parker 2 points (1-8), Patty 4 points (1-5), nothing worked well...except Kawhi, who was making shots from every spot on the floor in the 4th quarter.

32 points 5 blocks 4 steals sounds a big-time performance in playoffs

If he can have this type of games consistently...Next years we'll know it. This was the first season for him being the main guy and he has not reached his prime yet.

Come on man, Memphis was barely a threat to win one game. He needs to do that against the elite teams like Tim and Manu used to do routinely. One good game against a team that was too injured to compete in the playoffs is not something to base an argument on.


Memphis was a lottery team. As good as Kawhi was in that series, there was no pressure. The series was a foregone conclusion. And as I said, he can't live off the 2014 Finals forever. Time to add to his legacy.

What I want is a Duncan '03, game 6 in LA against the Lakers type of performance. A complete takeover on both ends that just kills the other team mentally. And as I also said, doesn't need to necessarily drop 40. Just give us a "Kawhi game," 25 points on efficient shooting, 8-10 boards, 4 dimes, 3 steals, 2 blocks, and hold Durant/Westbrook in check when he's on them.

Durant called him a system player. Waiters is saying the Spurs are a one man team. Kawhi has all the incentive to shut their asses up for good. These are defining games coming up. Games in which superstars step up and deliver.

Exactly. Before Waiters said that quote, he probably had Kevin Durant telling him in the locker room that yeah, Kawhi is still a system player. This is Kawhi's chance to prove that he isn't and shut them up. He really needs to step up here and now. If he wants it as bad as he says that he does, then he needs to be totally locked in and very aggressive mentally with a take no prisoners attitude.

[BillMc]

Does Anyone suspect Kawhi Leonard of maybe being hurt with his hamstring, after the fall on the 1st play of the game. He didnt look that spry in gm 2.. And not being able to beat his man off the dribble like he normally can.. Would explain his shot misses among other things.. I do not want to short change Roberson or Waiters, but they are not type flight defenders who should be able to contain KL.. Anyways let me know if anyone had the same thought.. I hadn't seen it reported or written anywhere.

I thought this. And if it were minor enough, the Spurs would likely keep it inhouse. Hopefully this time off will help, if there is such an injury.

[polandprzem]

Does Anyone suspect Kawhi Leonard of maybe being hurt with his hamstring, after the fall on the 1st play of the game. He didnt look that spry in gm 2.. And not being able to beat his man off the dribble like he normally can.. Would explain his shot misses among other things.. I do not want to short change Roberson or Waiters, but they are not type flight defenders who should be able to contain KL.. Anyways let me know if anyone had the same thought.. I hadn't seen it reported or written anywhere.

Well I do have the same thought. Overall he played great in game one but it's the adrenaline thing tbh. Then Pop played him pretty carefully and limit his minutes as much as he could. Idk if it's truth but that was not a good game by leo that game 2. Let's see if those 3 days off gets him rollin.

[look_at_g_shred]

Not sure, tbh.

The biggest thing holding Kawhi back on the offensive end (besides his lack of killer instinct) is his lack of handles. The same big hands that make him a great defender are a liability when he puts the ball on the floor. He just does not have confidence in his dribble and it shows. If you think about it, Kawhi's best historic offensive plays are of the catch-and-shoot variety or throw-down dunks when he's unimpeded to the basket or is already there when he gets the ball.
nah dude he's come along way with his handles. It's his mindset. He'd rather dance one on one with the defender and take a midrange j rather than use his handle to get past the defender. We see it all the time. He seems to bail out the defender with a quick J.

[midnightpulp]

Exactly. Before Waiters said that quote, he probably had Kevin Durant telling him in the locker room that yeah, Kawhi is still a system player. This is Kawhi's chance to prove that he isn't and shut them up. He really needs to step up here and now. If he wants it as bad as he says that he does, then he needs to be totally locked in and very aggressive mentally with a take no prisoners attitude.

Yet, I still want him to play smart basketball. An egomaniac like Kirby would come out and stupidly try to score 50 and probably shoot his team out the game. But when the opportunities are there, he needs to attack. Don't settle. And make Durant's and Westbrook's life hell. I would actually be okay with 20ish points from him on like 8-17 shooting if he totally destroyed one of those on the defensive end (I'm talking annihilation, like holding KD to 5-25 shooting. Kawhi won't need to score 30 if KD puts up that line). But still, there will come a time when we need his scoring, as well.

[DaBears]

I thought this. And if it were minor enough, the Spurs would likely keep it inhouse. Hopefully this time off will help, if there is such an injury.
I am hoping the rest will refresh him & heal minor injuries if any are there.. I did notice Pop had him sitting on the pine more than normal..

[loveforthegame]

Pop doesn't mess around with injuries. If he thought Leonard had something (hammy especially) he'd sit him 2 weeks minimum. Besides, Leonard was on the bench for long periods of time. I never saw him leave the bench so he didn't get loose on a bike. I didn't notice a heating pad either. Is it possible Leonard is keeping it from the team? Or it's sore and he didn't trust pushing off it? I don't know. Game 3 should be more telling.

[look_at_g_shred]

Pop doesn't mess around with injuries. If he thought Leonard had something (hammy especially) he'd sit him 2 weeks minimum. Besides, Leonard was on the bench for long periods of time. I never saw him leave the bench so he didn't get loose on a bike. I didn't notice a heating pad either. Is it possible Leonard is keeping it from the team? Or it's sore and he didn't trust pushing off it? I don't know. Game 3 should be more telling.
Honestly, Pop sees these players more than anybody. I would assume he would know if someone doesn't look themselves.

[itzsoweezee]

Not sure, tbh.

The biggest thing holding Kawhi back on the offensive end (besides his lack of killer instinct) is his lack of handles. The same big hands that make him a great defender are a liability when he puts the ball on the floor. He just does not have confidence in his dribble and it shows. If you think about it, Kawhi's best historic offensive plays are of the catch-and-shoot variety or throw-down dunks when he's unimpeded to the basket or is already there when he gets the ball.

That's kind of true. But just compare his handles to just year, vastly improved. They've gone from bad, to mediocre, to pretty good, and,sometimes, they're excellent, like the time he crossed Durant the fuck up. The more reps, the better he becomes at it. He's like a machine.

[loveforthegame]

Honestly, Pop sees these players more than anybody. I would assume he would know if someone doesn't look themselves.

Agreed. That's why I don't think Leonard is injured like some are wondering about. Pop doesn't mess around. If anything, he can be overly cautious about it.

[UZER]

Kawhi doesn't have the explosive athleticism to drive and make split second adjustments on drives to the bucket, especially after contact. He does have the occasional extend his arm out of reach from the defender. But if it's not clear path, he tends back away, or easily get bumped off his path. He also doesn't have explosive vertical lift to jump over guys.

Yes there are occasional plays were it all line up perfectly for something spectacular like the Ibaka dunk in 14, but it's not a regular thing.

So he's caught between this athletic, not quite athletic enough game.

[Horse]

Maybe the referees are in his head

This could be and it's getting worse and I lost count how many and 1's he should've had. Wish Pop would pull a phil jackson and say something in the post game but we know that's not happening.

[Gervin44Silas13]

Hes gotta be Duncanesque....Period...take over a game!!!

LMA did......

[DaBears]

There is no doubt we will need more than just LMA to show up in the next game.. KL & TP to me will need to be big factors in the scoring side if spurs are to hope to pull 1 out in OKC. LMA will not be able to carry the entire load in tomorrows game. And i expect them to play much better as a whole than in the last game.

[SAGirl]

I said this in another topic, but what amazes me the most is how he even doubled down on the ridiculousness. After LMA/Kawhi got us all the momentum and got it to a 1-point game going into the 4th, he goes to a Mills/Manu/Green/Diaw/West lineup. Alright, fine, whatever. Then OKC immediately comes out and builds their lead back again, and then what does Pop do? Brings in fucking Kyle Anderson and subs out Manu :lmao
I watched those sequences again, including the group that finished the third. They made a come back bc Donovan put out his own shitty line-up with Kanter as center and Durant as a 4, and he played rookie Payne who had a TO and was terrible. LMA murdered them bc they didn't have rim protection and it just so happen that Patty made his last jumpshot of the game in that stretch too. Donovan was ready to sub in Adams bc of his own shitty line-up when he realized his mistake, but there wasn't a dead ball. Advantage:Pop.

However, to start the 4th Donovan returned with a legit lineup this time with Adams, Kanter, Durant, Roberson and Waiters. This obviously is a line-up with a lot of size, and yet Pop puts out his smallest line-up with Diaw/West/Danny/Manu/Patty. Blunder:Pop. At times Patty ended up taking very ill advised contested shots while guarded by Durant! that he missed bc of course. Of course they struggled. They had no dominant player against that group to get anyone free. I don't think they managed a single good look in 3 minutes.

Diaw refused to shoot open 3s he got and D west was not an inside presence. He missed everything he tried including getting blocked by Kanter. Anderson played only 30 seconds. He was obviously there I think bc it was prescheduled, but it was ill advised to start the 4th with that line-up to begin with and I hope Pop learned his lesson.

Now, LMA had played the entire 3rd Q and it made sense for Pop to rest him. Looking back on it he was as the only player keeping this team in the game. You can look at it as just him sitting down to start the 4th was the most impactful event in that run by OKC bc Kawhi was invisible in the 4th Q. Maybe Pop should have played Kawhi those 3 minutes with the bench instead of Danny/Anderson and called post ups for him or something to both keep his aggressiveness going and help that line-up out to score.

I hope Pop learned his lesson. I think he will need to manage minutes to both separate Diaw/West against Kanter/Adams (maybe Boban gets a few minutes or TD with the bench) and that maybe he needs to bolster the bench with Kawhi, keeping at least one of LMA or Kawhi in the game. It will mean either some guys will play a lot more minutes or he will have to mix and match lineups more than he has and spare the SL to start, close games and key moments in the game.

We shall see. I agree Pop's time management wasn't the best, but it is a challenge bc Timmy is old and can't be overplayed. D west and Diaw were already at 10 and 8 minutes respectively. Boban played 3, LMA played 42. I think Bogan can play more with the bench specially when Westbrook is resting. One of Diaw/West will either give up minutes or be mixed in with TD and LMA more and you keep LMA/TD lineups for key moments in the game.

For the perimeter rotation, Kawhi can play more. Anderson only played 5 minutes and those can be absorbed by Kawhi easily. It depends if Pop is ready to do that, but for sure Pop cannot sub Anderson in with units that are already challenged offensively like the one he put out in the 4th Q.

[Creation88]

Buck is a hack. any chance he has to publicly ridicule a Spurs player he does. it's either a defense to not seem bias or he secretly dislikes them all. he's bogus.

[SAGirl]

I really think that lineup cost us the game. We were down 1 with all the momentum and that lineup took it to 11 I think. (Maybe 9?) One of Kawhi or LMA must be on the court at all times. I'm worried Kawhi's relatively low minutes for a 24 year old means Pop's protecting him from aggravating some injury. Either that, or the price of his great defense, is more rest.
It was 7 points. When they were all subbed out the game was 83-76. Still the lineup was awful and it would have gotten worse without Pop's intervention at that point.

[Gervin44Silas13]

I watched those sequences again, including the group that finished the third. They made a come back bc Donovan put out his own shitty line-up with Kanter as center and Durant as a 4, and he played rookie Payne who had a TO and was terrible. LMA murdered them bc they didn't have rim protection and it just so happen that Patty made his last jumpshot of the game in that stretch too. Donovan was ready to sub in Adams bc of his own shitty line-up when he realized his mistake, but there wasn't a dead ball. Advantage:Pop.

However, to start the 4th Donovan returned with a legit lineup this time with Adams, Kanter, Durant, Roberson and Waiters. This obviously is a line-up with a lot of size, and yet Pop puts out his smallest line-up with Diaw/West/Danny/Manu/Patty. Blunder:Pop. At times Patty ended up taking very ill advised contested shots while guarded by Durant! that he missed bc of course. Of course they struggled. They had no dominant player against that group to get anyone free. I don't think they managed a single good look in 3 minutes.

Diaw refused to shoot open 3s he got and D west was not an inside presence. He missed everything he tried including getting blocked by Kanter. Anderson played only 30 seconds. He was obviously there I think bc it was prescheduled, but it was ill advised to start the 4th with that line-up to begin with and I hope Pop learned his lesson.

Now, LMA had played the entire 3rd Q and it made sense for Pop to rest him. Looking back on it he was as the only player keeping this team in the game. You can look at it as just him sitting down to start the 4th was the most impactful event in that run by OKC bc Kawhi was invisible in the 4th Q. Maybe Pop should have played Kawhi those 3 minutes with the bench instead of Danny/Anderson and called post ups for him or something to both keep his aggressiveness going and help that line-up out to score.

I hope Pop learned his lesson. I think he will need to manage minutes to both separate Diaw/West against Kanter/Adams (maybe Boban gets a few minutes or TD with the bench) and that maybe he needs to bolster the bench with Kawhi, keeping at least one of LMA or Kawhi in the game. It will mean either some guys will play a lot more minutes or he will have to mix and match lineups more than he has and spare the SL to start, close games and key moments in the game.

We shall see. I agree Pop's time management wasn't the best, but it is a challenge bc Timmy is old and can't be overplayed. D west and Diaw were already at 10 and 8 minutes respectively. Boban played 3, LMA played 42. I think Bogan can play more with the bench specially when Westbrook is resting. One of Diaw/West will either give up minutes or be mixed in with TD and LMA more and you keep LMA/TD lineups for key moments in the game.

For the perimeter rotation, Kawhi can play more. Anderson only played 5 minutes and those can be absorbed by Kawhi easily. It depends if Pop is ready to do that, but for sure Pop cannot sub Anderson in with units that are already challenged offensively like the one he put out in the 4th Q.


Hopefully Pop will learn from his shitty as subsitiutions if not we are gonna be done for and the 67 wins this year won mean shit....it would be a wasted season

[SAGirl]

Not just his low minutes - his low energy. I said it in the game thread, it looked like one of those games where you find out later he had flu or something. But they don't want to make excuses, so they don't say anything till the season is over.

I don't doubt Kawhi's heart, or his motivation. So I have to think it was something else. There's no doubt that if the Spurs have Kawhi as his normal self, that game looks a lot different. People can be defensive or butthurt al they want, but that didn't look like the Kawhi we are used to seeing. And not just because shots didn't fall.
He definitely came out sleepwalking that is why Pop sat him out initially, he wasn't engaged on defense. Also he kept letting Westbrook switch off easily with LMA. Sure Westbrook didn't score against him but when it was so easy to get clear of him I hardly call that top defensive effort from him.

[UZER]

Hopefully Pop will learn from his shitty as subsitiutions if not we are gonna be done for and the 67 wins this year won mean shit....it would be a wasted season

:pop: False. System overcomes all.

:pop: It's just basketball.

[BillMc]

It was 7 points. When they were all subbed out the game was 83-76. Still the lineup was awful and it would have gotten worse without Pop's intervention at that point.

Cheers thanks for the clarification.:toast Well, it felt worse than seven.

[SAGirl]

is it possible that Kawhi is not that good?

dont take me wrong, Kawhi is the best defender on Earth, one-on-one,

yet there are many intangibles to being a superstar:

One, leadership and presence in crucial moments (Duncan and Manu have this, like the all-time greats)

Two, the ability to make his teammates better (i do not know if Kawhi has this in great amounts)

Three, Offensive execution in clutch moments (well, Kawhi has done it once or twice; MJ and Bird do it regularly)

Four, the ability to diagnose the tempo of a game and influence it accordingly (again, I do not know if Kawhi has this)

Fifth, consistency and the ability to maintain his greatness over long periods (which our boy sadly lack)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

having said that.....hmmmm.....we still believe!

:bobo
All good points. He's still young and just had his coming out party as the main guy this season. We had a great record but greatness is established in the postseason and this is where he's at. He's still got chances bc season isn't over.
I believe too.:flag:

[spursistan]

:pop: False. System overcomes all.

:pop: It's just basketball.

:pop: They made some shots :lmao..

[Kawhitstorm]

If something has shown this series if how much Kawhi improved his driving, he showed strong moves to the rim...But not sure if the team is designed for that.

Look where is LMA and the other big, where is Parker...when Kawhi has the ball. It's not like the team is giving him the space or calling plays for him to attack the rim.

I remember a play where he scored on a hand off from LMA b/c Ibaka was glued to LMA, Pop should be calling more dribble hand-off if LMA's defender going to stay glued instead of trying to bump the cutter at the mere threat of him shooting an uncontested jumper. They could also run HIGH PnRs but Pop has refused to breakout the Kawhi/LMA PnR.

Kawhi is also adept at catching his defender sleeping or off balance then slashing to the rim.

[tholdren]

I remember a play where he scored on a hand off from LMA b/c Ibaka was glued to LMA, Pop should be calling more dribble hand-off if LMA's defender going to stay glued instead of trying to bump the cutter at the mere threat of him shooting an uncontested jumper. They could also run HIGH PnRs but Pop has refused to breakout the Kawhi/LMA PnR.

Kawhi is also adept at catching his defender sleeping or off balance then slashing to the rim.

Im sure pop calls a play every time down.

[T Park]

No it is not good to blame Kawhi for the loss. 18 for 47 38% from the rest of the team beside Aldridge, Leonard, and MANUUUUUUU..

NOT NO BUT HELL NO it wasn't Kawhi's fault. Buck Harvey was looking for someone big to blame and choose Kawhi when he should have looked at Duncan, Parker, Green and the bench.



Comes with the territory of a max contract. You want the money, be prepared to get ripped if you don't. Leonard was terrible. Period.

[T Park]

Just wanna say, Kawhi took a horrible 3pt shot with the game on the line.
I'm not sure what he wast thinking.



Yeah that kick out from Aldridge to Kawhi and that three pointer was one of the worst shots I've ever seen him take. Just horrible.

[Mnky]

:lmao

Actually, when you lose by a couple of points then it's most likely the coaches fault. On the other hand, if the team gets blownout then the players are to blame.

Coachs job is to put the players in a position to win. When you lose by one, you're obviously in a position to win. Execution is on the players. You don't play much, do you?

[DaBears]

I would not blame this game on any single player, they as a group stunk up the joint.. If TP & company show up this game we will win, just like the OKC did in gm 2.... TP most of all..

[DaBears]

I would not blame this game on any single player, they as a group stunk up the joint.. If TP & company show up this game we will win, just like the OKC did in gm 2.... TP most of all..

This being said, it was an off night for them.. My big thing is i just hope that Kawhi is not hurt or injured with his hamstring, because he looked like a shell of himself in all aspects..

[EIC]

nah dude he's come along way with his handles. It's his mindset. He'd rather dance one on one with the defender and take a midrange j rather than use his handle to get past the defender. We see it all the time. He seems to bail out the defender with a quick J.


That's kind of true. But just compare his handles to just year, vastly improved. They've gone from bad, to mediocre, to pretty good, and,sometimes, they're excellent, like the time he crossed Durant the fuck up. The more reps, the better he becomes at it. He's like a machine.

Oh, he's definitely gotten better. His handles made me extremely nervous back in 2012 and 2013. Back then it was not unusual to see him make an epic steal, only to turn around and dribble off his own foot taking the ball up the court. But he still does not have the elite ball skills he needs to be a dominant offensive player at the 3 spot.

Look, I love Kawhi. I live in San Diego and watched virtually every one of his home games at SDSU in person. But he is just never going to be a dominant offensive player. The sooner Pop & Co. realize that he is basically a super version of Danny Green, the better. We need to stop trying to work the offense through him and instead recognize him as the primarily "3-and-D" player he is. The focus should instead be on finding a guard (or two) that can reliably score, and running the offense through him/them and Aldridge, with Kawhi a complimentary piece on the offensive end. It hurts me to say, but deep down, you guys know it's true.

[neboat]

Does Carmelo have elite handles? What about Klay?

KL has the post up game of melo and shooting of Klay (sort of)....

KL has the tools to be better offensively

[tholdren]

Yeah that kick out from Aldridge to Kawhi and that three pointer was one of the worst shots I've ever seen him take. Just horrible.
I mentioned that during my meltdown on the G2 thread. Too bad Spurstalk has so many "new" Spurs fans. Bash on Westbrick, even have videos, but when KL does something just as bad it gets swept under the rug. These types....

[Poolboy5623]

I think his whole "I'm a star, I want star treatment (from officials)," is dragging him down . He wants every call, and he's not getting any.

[EIC]

nah dude he's come along way with his handles. It's his mindset. He'd rather dance one on one with the defender and take a midrange j rather than use his handle to get past the defender. We see it all the time. He seems to bail out the defender with a quick J.


Does Carmelo have elite handles? What about Klay?

KL has the post up game of melo and shooting of Klay (sort of)....

KL has the tools to be better offensively

Are you serious? He is no where near the 3-point shooter that Klay Thompson is and does not have the mid-range or post game of Melo. C'mon, man. Prime Melo was one of the premiere scorers in the NBA. You seriously think Kawhi is as much of a scoring threat as prime Melo? No way. But he definitely has a better post game than Thompson and is a better defender than both of them.

If Kawhi was a liability on D, he would be a bench player at best. That alone shows how far from being an elite offensive player he is compared to guys like Harden, Durant, etc., for whom you will gladly take their ineptness on D for sake of their extreme offensive production. He is not an elite offensive player and we cannot keep trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

[YGWHI]

Are you serious? He is no where near the 3-point shooter that Klay Thompson is and does not have the mid-range or post game of Melo.

If you don't think that Kawhi has one of the best and most effective post-up game in the league...you should look his stats. He's ELITE at it


If Kawhi was a liability on D, he would be a bench player at best...He is not an elite offensive player
Stop reading after this. :lol

PER are offensive-oriented stats. Kawhi was 4-5-6 in PER during the whole season. He's a so versalite scorer, post-up, mid-range, ISOs, 3's...80 percentile or better at every spot on the floor

2-3-4 MVP candidate all season...but at best he' would be a bench player...

[EIC]

If you don't think that Kawhi has one of the best and most effective post-up game in the league...you should look his stats. He's ELITE at it


Stop reading after this. :lol

PER are offensive-oriented stats. Kawhi was 4-5-6 in PER during the whole season. He's a so versalite scorer, post-up, mid-range, ISOs, 3's...80 percentile or better at every spot on the floor

2-3-4 MVP candidate all season...but at best he' would be a bench player...

I take it you missed the Clippers series last year and Game 2 of the OKC series earlier this week?

Kawhi struggles with the double-team. Without Aldridge on the floor, he struggles mightily. Kawhi depends on other elite offensive players on the floor to get his numbers. That is not befitting an elite offensive player in his own right. He is so much closer to Pippen than Jordan that it's not even funny to suggest otherwise. The sooner you accept this, the better your Kawhi experience will be. Otherwise you are setting yourself up to be let down.

[Kawhitstorm]

Coachs job is to put the players in a position to win. When you lose by one, you're obviously in a position to win. Execution is on the players. You don't play much, do you?

The player dug themselves a hole in the first quarter which they climbed out of but then Pop blew the game w/ his shitty rotation.:lol

Donovan was also an idiot for wasting his timeouts & putting Waiters in charge of inbounding the ball.:lol

Vogel got fired b/c he blew Gm 6 by benching the starters & trotting out a lineup that had been a disaster in the previous game.:lol

LMAO @ the "you don't play much" comment as if there are coaches in pickup games.:lmao

[YGWHI]

He really needs to step up here and now


What I want is a Duncan '03, game 6 in LA against the Lakers type of performance. A complete takeover on both ends that just kills the other team mentally. And as I also said, doesn't need to necessarily drop 40. Just give us a "Kawhi game," 25 points on efficient shooting, 8-10 boards, 4 dimes, 3 steals, 2 blocks, and hold Durant/Westbrook in check when he's on them.

Durant called him a system player. Waiters is saying the Spurs are a one man team. Kawhi has all the incentive to shut their asses up for good. These are defining games coming up. Games in which superstars step up and deliver

Duncan was a generational player and even when the media put 8-9 players above him on their All Time crazy lists, I think he's just a step behind Jordan.

So I try to stay more realistic.

If Kawhi do it next games...great. But if he won't...I'm not going to say "he doesn't have it at all" or going full "drama" like guys in this thread "he would be a bench player".

Kawhi didn't have many opportunities to work his offense in real-game time during his first seasons and I wouldn't define a player who is still developing his game...

Winning. Step up in crucial games. Leadership. Several superstars couldn't put it all together until their 26-27 years old. Like I said the list of them is extensive, not sure why Kawhi should be the exception.

[YGWHI]

I take it you missed the Clippers series last year and Game 2 of the OKC series earlier this week?
And you? Kawhi had 4 amazing games in the series. And a dominated game 1 against OKC.


Kawhi struggles with the double-team.
Not that much like last season. He has improved it, and his passing out the double team, looks good.

But like I said before, stop reading after your brilliant... "he would be a bench player"

[YGWHI]

He definitely came out sleepwalking that is why Pop sat him out initially, he wasn't engaged on defense.
Yell at him, hit him in the stomach, call his mom hoe out in front of the cameras...but don't sit him for that.

The damage by keeping him on the bench several minutes was so far worse than a bit sleepwalking early.

I told you before this series, that Pop will kill his offense sitting him remaining 6 minutes in the quarters...he did it in the first quarter.

In the 2nd q, Kawhi was getting back to being himself, made some nice buckets, missed the FTs...and Pop sat him remaining 4 minutes. Not to keep his 3rd foul? Kawhi finished the game with 2.

It's all about priorities. The Spurs needed more his offense in last game, but Pop sat him when he was starting to get his confidence back. Seriously, it was bad coaching.

[kaji157]

Yell at him, hit him in the stomach, call his mom hoe out in front of the cameras...but don't sit him for that.

The damage by keeping him on the bench several minutes was so far worse than a bit sleepwalking early.

I told you before this series, that Pop will kill his offense sitting him remaining 6 minutes in the quarters...he did it in the first quarter.

In the 2nd q, Kawhi was getting back to being himself, made some nice buckets, missed the FTs...and Pop sat him remaining 4 minutes. Not to keep his 3rd foul? Kawhi finished the game with 2.

It's all about priorities. The Spurs needed more his offense in last game, but Pop sat him when he was starting to get his confidence back. Seriously, it was bad coaching.

Stop making excuses for the guy, he was more focused on going to the officials than going for the bucket, Kawhi just had a bad game and an awfull first half, even if Pop coached as poorly as you said, if Kawhi makes one of those FT is a Tie and if he makes one bucket we win, simple as that.

Thats tough, but that is the truth when you are no longer the supporting cast and become the star, you are accountable for when you dont produce and the team looses.

[YGWHI]

Stop making excuses for the guy
What's excuse?

I've said before he had a bad game.

But if you think that Pop had a good coaching night...I can't help.

A coach can't sit their best perimeter defenders at the same time against Westbrook/Durant, can't sit his best all around player when he's starting to make shots, can't put a weak lineup in the 4th quarter when is a close game...

This loss was on Kawhi but pretty much on Pop, too.

[Spurs_619]

What's excuse?

I've said before he had a bad game.

But if you think that Pop had a good coaching night...I can't help.

A coach can't sit their best perimeter defenders at the same time against Westbrook/Durant, can't sit his best all around player when he's starting to make shots, can't put a weak lineup in the 4th quarter when is a close game...

This lose was on Kawhi but pretty much on Pop, too.

Don't waste the energy trying to argue there is a few posters on this board that want to see Kawhi fail even if it means the spurs losing.

[Mnky]

The player dug themselves a hole in the first quarter which they climbed out of but then Pop blew the game w/ his shitty rotation.:lol

Donovan was also an idiot for wasting his timeouts & putting Waiters in charge of inbounding the ball.:lol

Vogel got fired b/c he blew Gm 6 by benching the starters & trotting out a lineup that had been a disaster in the previous game.:lol

LMAO @ the "you don't play much" comment as if there are coaches in pickup games.:lmao

Bro, it's okay if you don't play.

[YGWHI]

Don't waste the energy trying to argue there is a few posters on this board that want to see Kawhi fail even if it means the spurs losing.

Agree. Sadly, this forum was replete all season with guys saying "Kawhi isn't that good" even when he played the best bball of his career.

Now in playoffs..."he would be a bench player at best"

Can't remember a player more underrated by the fans of his own team than him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Bro, it's okay if you don't play.

We have another Church League scrub :lol

[Mnky]

We have another Church League scrub :lol

So now people who play ball are scrubs.. but people who never play or Coach and act like sports analysts on forums are not ?

Keep convincing yourself man. All the lol smiles in the world cent hide your insecurity tbh.

It's usually the people who declare themselves superior instead of actually debating, that are full of it. Exp: kool

Now you behave before I get a real analyst to spank you on twitter again.

[EIC]

And you? Kawhi had 4 amazing games in the series. And a dominated game 1 against OKC.


Not that much like last season. He has improved it, and his passing out the double team, looks good.

But like I said before, stop reading after your brilliant... "he would be a bench player"

Really? "4 amazing games"? Was this an 8-game series?

Game 1: 18 pts. in 33 min.
Game 5: 18 pts. in 36 min.
Game 6: 12 pts. in 40 min.
Game 7: 13 pts. in 33 min.

(I'll give you Game 3 (26 pts.) and Game 4 (32 pts.). Game 2 (23 pts. in 39 min.) is a wobbler, but I'll let you have that too . . . because you need it more than I do.)

Regarding OKC, who didn't dominate in Game 1? All the Spurs shots were falling. More importantly, I never said Kawhi won't have games where he goes off. I am simply saying he is not an elite offensive weapon that can reliably clear his own shot, play through a double team, and generally put the team on his back. He just is not that guy. Great player, awesome guy, but he is not good enough on the offensive end to be the focal point of the offense.

[EIC]

Agree. Sadly, this forum was replete all season with guys saying "Kawhi isn't that good" even when he played the best bball of his career.

Now in playoffs..."he would be a bench player at best"

Can't remember a player more underrated by the fans of his own team than him.

Look, it's not Kawhi's fault. The fact is that the media and fans (including people like yourself) have put way too many expectations on him. And it's amplified by the coaching staff trying to run the offense through him.

I mean, come the fuck on. You tell me why the Spurs sucked in 2015. Could it have anything to do with the fact that, unlike 2014, Pop made Kawhi the focus of the offense in 2015? Or do you think that is a coincidence?

I can guarantee you that Kawhi doesn't want to be the guy you all want him to be. He clearly is not comfortable in the "Alpha Dog" role. He doesn't want the fame or the pressure. He's just not wired that way. He would much, much rather be a Robin to someone else's Batman. You'll realize this in time.

And don't take my "bench player at best" comment out of context. I said that would be true WITHOUT his elite defensive skills. Kawhi is the best overall defender in the league. I have no doubt about that. And he is an above-average offensive player. The combination makes him an excellent overall player. But he is not an elite offensive player like Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Curry, etc. If you took away his defensive skills, I don't think he is in the starting rotation.

[YGWHI]

Really? "4 amazing games"? Was this an 8-game series?

Game 1: 18 pts. in 33 min.
Game 5: 18 pts. in 36 min.
Game 6: 12 pts. in 40 min.
Game 7: 13 pts. in 33 min.

Game 1: 18 points on 58 FG% shooting letting his man in 10 points on 4-13.

Game 5: He made clutch FTs and the Spurs won the game.

The last two games? Yep, those were awful.

So yes, 4 amazing games, one mmm...meh, and two bad.

[YGWHI]

I mean, come the fuck on. You tell me why the Spurs sucked in 2015. Could it have anything to do with the fact that, unlike 2014, Pop made Kawhi the focus of the offense in 2015? Or do you think that is a coincidence?
:lol

You don't know anything about this team. Parker took more shots than him in 2015 regular season and had higher USG% but Kawhi was the focus of the offense??

And what's about this season? Pop made Kawhi the Spurs leading scorer in the regular season and first round, this was the best Spurs record season...Do you think that's a coincidence?



I can guarantee you that Kawhi doesn't want to be the guy you all want him to be. He clearly is not comfortable in the "Alpha Dog" role. He doesn't want the fame or the pressure. He's just not wired that way. He would much, much rather be a Robin to someone else's Batman. You'll realize this in time.
Of course, you know him.

I rather believe in Kawhi's words than your trolling. He literally said he wants to play at MVP level, wants to be the main guy on a team...


If you took away his defensive skills, I don't think he is in the starting rotation.
Parker, Danny Green are in the starting rotation...but not Kawhi? Like those guys are better offensive players than him...:lol

Really, stop embarrassed yourself.

[dabom]

:lol

You don't know anything about this team. Parker took more shots than him in 2015 regular season and had higher USG% but Kawhi was the focus of the offense??

And what's about this season? Pop made Kawhi the Spurs leading scorer in the regular season and first round, this was the best-record Spurs season...Do you think that's a coincidence?


Of course, you know him.

I rather believe in Kawhi's words than your trolling. He literally said he wants to play at MVP level, wants to be the main guy on a team...


Parker, Danny Green are in the starting rotation...but not Kawhi? Like those guys are better offensive players than him...:lol

Really, stop embarrassed yourself.

Go easy on that faggot. :lmao

[Kawhitstorm]

So now people who play ball are scrubs.. but people who never play or Coach and act like sports analysts on forums are not ?

Keep convincing yourself man. All the lol smiles in the world cent hide your insecurity tbh.

It's usually the people who declare themselves superior instead of actually debating, that are full of it. Exp: kool

Now you behave before I get a real analyst to spank you on twitter again.

:lmao

Stick to warming the bench on your Church League squad or else your "coach" is going to cut your scrubby ass

[pgardn]

Imo the problem is with expectations of KL.

His strengths are clearly momentum changing steal/dunks; The ability to hit the open 3; Athletic rebounding that give us possession; And he has now developed a post up game;
But his handles, 1 on 1 ability to beat people off the dribble, and distribution ability are clearly not consistent all star level yet. IMO it's our fault for not getting him easier shots to get him going. OKC is giving LMA shots but not KL. They are going at KL tough on the perimeter and daring him into the lane to double him. Sure he can make the toughest shots on our team, but he can't do this for an entire series. This is where the rest of the team needs to expose OKC (besides Aldridge). KL is not Lebron. He cannot PG the team.

[polandprzem]

Christ

From Kawhi not getting the ball or set plays to why the hell Pop made him an offensive threat when he can't handle it?



You just can't make people happy

[pgardn]

Christ

From Kawhi not getting the ball or set plays to why the hell Pop made him an offensive threat when he can't handle it?



You just can't make people happy

Welcome to basketball discussion.

[polandprzem]

Welcome to basketball discussion.

Thanks. I guess I'm a noobie on that department

[pgardn]

Thanks. I guess I'm a noobie on that department

Making people "happy" on this site?

A good portion of the crew are not even Spurs fans.

[hooperflash]

Post up Whi Whi :claw

[polandprzem]

Making people "happy" on this site?

A good portion of the crew are not even Spurs fans.

I'm not the one who wants that. Just stating the obvious in hope some people will try to think differently.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl_I9s1cN3Q

[BillMc]

Making people "happy" on this site?

A good portion of the crew are not even Spurs fans.

http://i.imgur.com/UmImMJd.gif

[itzsoweezee]

Imo the problem is with expectations of KL.

His strengths are clearly momentum changing steal/dunks; The ability to hit the open 3; Athletic rebounding that give us possession; And he has now developed a post up game;
But his handles, 1 on 1 ability to beat people off the dribble, and distribution ability are clearly not consistent all star level yet. IMO it's our fault for not getting him easier shots to get him going. OKC is giving LMA shots but not KL. They are going at KL tough on the perimeter and daring him into the lane to double him. Sure he can make the toughest shots on our team, but he can't do this for an entire series. This is where the rest of the team needs to expose OKC (besides Aldridge). KL is not Lebron. He cannot PG the team.

Good points. It seems a lot of the pressure would be relieved if Danny and Tony can hit their open shots.

[loveforthegame]

Buck have anything to say tonight?

[Keepin' it real]

Buck have anything to say tonight?

No. Why would he? His article for Leonard's game 2 is still warranted.

[loveforthegame]

No. Why would he? His article for Leonard's game 2 is still warranted.

All the missed fts, slips on the floor, turnovers, bad handles. Figured he'd have a lot to say after this one.

[Kawhitstorm]

728811564900454400

[YGWHI]

All the missed fts, slips on the floor, turnovers, bad handles. Figured he'd have a lot to say after this one.

I bet he'll. He never liked Kawhi, I still remember "his article" about Kawhi RFA-summer and his agent.

[Kawhitstorm]

I bet he'll. He never liked Kawhi, I still remember "his article" about Kawhi RFA-summer and his agent.

Kawhi probably turned down his sister:lol

[YGWHI]

Kawhi probably turned down his sister:lol
:lol

More likely...he fucked Harvey daughter :claw

[EIC]

:lol

You don't know anything about this team. Parker took more shots than him in 2015 regular season and had higher USG% but Kawhi was the focus of the offense??

And what's about this season? Pop made Kawhi the Spurs leading scorer in the regular season and first round, this was the best Spurs record season...Do you think that's a coincidence?

Go ahead and Google pretty much any article about the Spurs 2014-2015 season. Everyone knows that the Spurs have tried to make Kawhi a bigger and bigger part of the offense each year. Tony has pretty much always been a ballhog, but Kawhi nut-huggers that just started watching the team in 2012 wouldn't know that. It's not like Parker just started chucking in 2014-2015. But Kawhi was a bigger part of the offense in 2014-2015 than in 2013-2014 and the team took a steep nosedive.

What about this season? Can you say "LaMarcus Aldridge"? Adding a scorer of Aldridge's caliber took the pressure of Kawhi and made it easier for him to get his points without having to play through a double team all the time. There's no way Kawhi puts up those numbers this season without Aldridge on the court with him. No chance.


Of course, you know him.

I rather believe in Kawhi's words than your trolling. He literally said he wants to play at MVP level, wants to be the main guy on a team...

Actually, I probably have better insight into Kawhi than most. I sat court side for almost everyone of his home games at SDSU. I am very good friends with someone in the SDSU athletic department and was able to attend a lot of booster banquets with the team and coaching staff. But that is beside the point because the stuff I am referencing is really plain to see for anyone that pays attention to his interviews or press conferences: Kawhi is an incredibly shy, quiet dude who does not like the spotlight. Almost borderline Autism spectrum. I don't even mean this in a derogatory way; it's what gives him his work ethic and is a million times more desirable than flashy, "me-first" guys like Westbrook and Harden. But I think it also means he lacks that killer instinct of guys like Kobe, Westbrook, and Harden on the offensive end.





Really, stop embarrassed yourself.

:bobo


All that said, I have to give Kawhi props tonight. He played a hell of a game on both ends and came through for his team when they needed it.

[YGWHI]

It's not like Parker just started chucking in 2014-2015. But Kawhi was a bigger part of the offense in 2014-2015 than in 2013-2014 and the team took a steep nosedive.
Your "perspective"... :lol


Kawhi is an incredibly shy, quiet dude who does not like the spotlight.
No shit!!! Really SDSU staff revealed to you that?? Wow!!


If you took away his defensive skills, I don't think he is in the starting rotation.
Kawhi is coming off the bench next game, right? Clown.

[EIC]

Your "perspective"... :lol


No shit. Really?
And still he said he wants to be the best player in the league, play at MVP level every game.

The fuck is he supposed to say? "I want to be good, but not like super, super good." Yeah, the guy wants to be the best player he can be. But saying it and being comfortable with that pressure and spotlight are two very different things. Again, it's not a coincidence that Kawhi flourished in the shadow of the big free-agent splash that was Aldridge.



Kawhi is coming off the bench next game, right? Clown.

Is there an echo or is that just your go to? Your parents let you stay up this late? And shut your goddamn mouth and open your fucking ears: I said without his D he would be a bench player. Was I exaggerating for effect? Yes. But at least get my hyperbole right.

[YGWHI]

Blah blah blah...I said without his D he would be a bench player

:lmao

[Dro210]

Knee-jerk reactions are for weak people

Eat shit Harvey.

[rasuo214]

Is there an echo or is that just your go to? Your parents let you stay up this late? And shut your goddamn mouth and open your fucking ears: I said without his D he would be a bench player. Was I exaggerating for effect? Yes. But at least get my hyperbole right.

What kind of point were you trying to make by saying that? No shit a player isn't as good if you remove the best part of their game. If you remove Steph Curry's 3 pt shooting ability he's a marginal NBA player. Oh wow, ok and?