Have the wheels fallen off?

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

I wasn't able to watch games 2 and 3, new city, new job, yet to get a place with cable. But from seeing the box score the last two games, can someone explain why Duncan's stats have been so poor? Is it simply time for the legend to retire?

[DontStopBelieving]

yup

[CapitalEmm]

He's clearly playing through pain. He hasn't been the same since missing a couple of weeks due to "knee soreness" earlier in the year.

Being the winner he is, Timmy isn't making excuses, but the end may be near.

[Chris]

One more season imo

[jermaine]

I was watching last night an said i never thought I'd see a Spurs game an Tim Duncan wasnt getting 35mins or more. If one can't see his end is already here, your a fool... It's sad to see him on the bench so much. Him an Ginobili. I was surprised Pop didn't pull Danny for Ginobili in the closing mins.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

He looked good in game 1

[TheGreatYacht]

One more season imo
He'll finish averaging 16ppg for his career if that happens.

Do you really want him to walk like McHale when he's older? He's 40 bruh, he gave us his all

[Vic Petro]

Still good defensively. Offense has fallen off a cliff.

[spursistan]

I'll give a nut if we send him out on top with 6..

Sadly, yes..He's practically done..go back and read his box-scores in November/early December..he was nearly a double-double guy..the knee then started to act-up (remember he missed couple of games because of it) and it was downhill from there..Still think he could be serviceable in the Finals..

[tholdren]

He'll finish averaging 16ppg for his career if that happens.

Do you really want him to walk like McHale when he's older? He's 40 bruh, he gave us his all
age doesn't matter, especially in the current era of sports

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think this is it.

[Capt Bringdown]

Yup. He's in Hakeem-in-a-Raptors-uniform territory. Terrible to watch.
Hopefully he can out like the Admiral did.

[TDomination]

Crazy to think just a year ago he led the Spurs against the clippers. It's definitely gotta be the knees, no way it's just him being old

[313]

Lol at people who thought he was going to come back for another year. Some even thought he 2 to 3 years left lmao

[keeferob25]

Yeah, all before, it was Tim's left knee that was dead but survived with a good right one. Its beyond clear that the right one is an issue now and that they are both DEAD. Everything he does looks "laboring" and it wasn't the case at the start of the year to the missing of games due to soreness. Duncan can't play in this series and should we advance, it will be infinitely worse against GS. However, if we should win, I actually have no doubt that he will be VERY useful against Cleveland as he (in tandem with Kawhi/Bowen) have always hampered lebron's effectiveness in driving which reduces the "kick" opportunities for open shots. But overall its painful to see and I believe his confidence is being majorly hit too because of it smh

[peacemaker885]

have to agree. Gives traction to the Durant talk.

[Keepin' it real]

He's basically a poor man's Mark Eaton now.

[BillMc]

Yeah, all before, it was Tim's left knee that was dead but survived with a good right one. Its beyond clear that the right one is an issue now and that they are both DEAD. Everything he does looks "laboring" and it wasn't the case at the start of the year to the missing of games due to soreness. Duncan can't play in this series and should we advance, it will be infinitely worse against GS. However, if we should win, I actually have no doubt that he will be VERY useful against Cleveland as he (in tandem with Kawhi/Bowen) have always hampered lebron's effectiveness in driving which reduces the "kick" opportunities for open shots. But overall its painful to see and I believe his confidence is being majorly hit too because of it smh

This. I'd love for Timmy to go out with a good series and a ring against LeBron. Perfect ending.

[SpurPadre]

I still think he'll play an important role matched up against Bogut in the WCF.

[BillMc]

As others have said when that right knee went it really changed him. Maybe there's something in the offseason that could be done, but I would be surprised if this isn't it.

[BillMc]

Though truthfully Manu could go another year as a bench catalyst.

[Spurs9]

Hope he retires, I actually think Manu could be helpful for another year.

[HankChinaski]

Its the knee injury from earlier in the season. He hasn't been the same since. He is playing through on top of more pain than he already had. Probably won't be able to tell if he can return to pre injury till the off season. More than likely this is his last run this post season.

[HankChinaski]

Manu could be probably swing one more season but the Olympics this summer are going to be the last time you see Manu suits up.

[Slomo]

Edit: What he said ^


Though truthfully Manu could go another year as a bench catalyst.

My gut feeling is no. He'll go out representing his country at the Olympics.

His and Tim's production has taken a sharp downturn this season. I hope they can retire as NBA champs.

[Leetonidas]

I just hope he has one more father time defying moment for us but unfortunately it looks like the wheels fell off already :depressed

[Spurtacular]

Duncan being an unsung hero and deferring LMAlpha like he has all season. He'll be back next season to get that illusive back to back if the Spurs ring. He'll be back either way, imo. He still enjoys this. Next year could be the last though. His body may be starting to betray him too much now.

[SnakeBoy]

He certainly looks like he is done at the moment but I have hope we will see some retro games from him yet. It doesn't make sense that it's his knees or body breaking down when he looks okay on defense & running the floor but he's shooting like 50% on uncontested layups. It's just weird.

[Darius McCrary]

Once he got his knee scoped to clean out scar tissue, he's been even slower than normal

[GSH]

I hate to say it, but he's done. I don't think he'll want to come back, playing at this level.

That being said, I still choose to believe that Time MF Duncan can dig deep and find a couple more good games. Not a whole series - fine. And for sure not a whole other season. But a couple of games, just when they really need him, on the way to 6 and retirement? That's the stuff of legends, and the way a legend should go out.

I still believe he can do that.

[HankChinaski]

Only thing to add about Duncan these playoffs is he hasn't been needed to be a focal point in the offense. Thunder are now a mismatch for him now in his current state. He can still provide help and production but not in a familiar capacity we are grown custom to seeing from him.

[SPURt]

OKC and GSW are going to magnify Tim's age. For his salary, I can't complain about Tim's contribution too much. I'm just thankful LMA joined the Spurs. Watching Tim finally lose the race with Father Time has been far easier with a 67 win team. I still think, like the above posters, we'll see a few more flashes of the timeless Tim. I always wondered what would be the worst part of seeing the big three era in SA fade away. The hardest part by far is watching Tim not be effective. If he hangs them up this year, it has all been best case scenario.

Tony turning 34 this month and having two years at $15 million is what worries me more than Tim or Manu's NBA mortality.

[spursfaninla]

Duncan should be able to be on the floor any time that adams is playing.

NOt saying that RPM is the end-all, but duncan led the league for a substantial chunk of the year in drpm, and is 2nd now. However, his health is really limiting him and he is not as effective on both sides of the floor in his current state, it appears. Otherwise he would be playing.

If adams is playing 20+mpg (played 40 last night) and duncan is not playing at least 20 minutes, that means duncan is not right.

:depressed

[Russ]

He's been here before and come back.

Tim doesn't age in a linear fashion - he cycles up and down like the stock market. Only over a long period can you detect a meaningful trend.

That's my story and I'm stickin to it -- not ready to give up on seeing that greatness again.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan should be able to be on the floor any time that adams is playing.

NOt saying that RPM is the end-all, but duncan led the league for a substantial chunk of the year in drpm, and is 2nd now. However, his health is really limiting him and he is not as effective on both sides of the floor in his current state, it appears. Otherwise he would be playing.

If adams is playing 20+mpg (played 40 last night) and duncan is not playing at least 20 minutes, that means duncan is not right.

:depressed

Most of that is based on past play + his performance from the 1st half of the season, though..

Tim from pre-January was playing great basketball, one of the best role players among bigs..as others have already mentioned in this thread, he has looked like a completely different player since his injury..that's the problem with his age, all it takes is any type of injury to derail his season and make him a liability, tbh..

He's still a good defensive player in certain matchups, but he's a complete liability on the offensive end..

In regards to Manu, I think he looks fine out there, but it's evident that Pop doesn't trust his body anymore, since he continues to give him less minutes than expected(at least IMO)..

[mclinejr]

I trust Timmy's judgement on when it's time to hang up his Spurs. For now, I'm just enjoying the ride. I'm thankful for every minute I've watched Tim Duncan play.

[TheGreatYacht]

I trust Timmy's judgement on when it's time to hang up his Spurs. For now, I'm just enjoying the ride. I'm thankful for every minute I've watched Tim Duncan play.

[Capt Bringdown]

But a couple of games, just when they really need him, on the way to 6 and retirement? That's the stuff of legends, and the way a legend should go out.


Well put. It looked like the stars were aligning for Duncan to go out as a champion, even with his diminished play - then Golden State happened.
sigh

[UZER]

If he can, I think he will play one more year. Have a feeling he does not want to go into the HOF the same year as Kobe.

[SupremeGuy]

You shut your whore mouth. The wheels will never fall off... :cry

[MaNu4Tres]

I really think this is it for TD.

I'll be shocked if he came back for another year.

This team just has too many parts not showing up most of the time. The reason they won in 14' is because all players 1-10 were pretty much equals -- everyone was ballin. Now its a 2 man show with glimpses of decent play here or there from everyone else. Way too inconsistent to beat a team like GS or CLE.

Not a hater, just being a realist. I hope I'm wrong and TD goes out a champion.. I just don't see it and that's okay. Five.

[houston spurs fan]

If this is it he goes in to the hall with Kobe?? Yuck.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I really think this is it for TD.

I'll be shocked if he came back for another year.

This team just has too many parts not showing up most of the time. The reason they won in 14' is because all players 1-10 were pretty much equals -- everyone was ballin. Now its a 2 man show with glimpses of decent play here or there from everyone else. Way too inconsistent to beat a team like GS or CLE.

Not a hater, just being a realist. I hope I'm wrong and TD goes out a champion.. I just don't see it and that's okay. Five.

Cleveland isnt a problem :lol

[Mugen]

Probably but I really DGAF tbh. Tim Duncan is the fucking franchise.

[MaNu4Tres]

Cleveland isnt a problem :lol

You haven't been watching them play this playoff run.

[sasaint]

You haven't been watching them play this playoff run.

I have. They have a cake-walk in the Eastern Conference. But they are playing like a well-oiled machine, and they will give the Western Conference champ (whoever it is) a run for their money. They have played like a totally different team since the end of the regular season. You are right, sir.

[100%duncan]

I think so. I just hope we send Tim out on top.

[sasaint]

If this is it he goes in to the hall with Kobe?? Yuck.

No, it's the perfect reflection of their perfectly contrasting careers. In his induction speech Kobe reminisces, "I remember the year of my farewell tour..." Then Tim gives his induction speech: "I remember the year of Kobe's farewell tour..." Or (hopefully) "I remember the year of my farewell ring."

[.G.]

If this is it he goes in to the hall with Kobe?? Yuck.

If he does he better not let kobe upstage him like mj did to David Robinson in 2009. That shit pissed me the fuck off for days.

[dbreiden83080]

He can play and give them more than 15 minutes. And if he can't forget the title..

[Poolboy5623]

Tim Donecan

[MaNu4Tres]

I have. They have a cake-walk in the Eastern Conference. But they are playing like a well-oiled machine, and they will give the Western Conference champ (whoever it is) a run for their money. They have played like a totally different team since the end of the regular season. You are right, sir.

I think they'll beat GS in 7 in an epic epic series.

[tmtcsc]

His leadership and presence can't be understated and I'm glad we have him but....

https://media.giphy.com/media/33iqmp5ATXT5m/giphy.gif

[sasaint]

I think they'll beat GS in 7 in an epic epic series.

I hope you are wrong, of course. I am hoping that the Spurs can pull off a magical run for seis. But, a GS-Cleveland series could be epic.

[Sean Cagney]

Wheels fell off, finally happened. I don't want to see him limp through another year, too painful to watch the legend this bad at times.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

You haven't been watching them play this playoff run.

For the life of me I'll never understand how anyone can say a LeBron team is legit bc of their performance in the east playoffs.
Those teams are fucking GARBAGE

[Mr. Body]

He should stay one more yer for continuity. Have to make sure Durant has the role models to pick up Spurs culture.

[weeks]

if he looks like this is he even gonna want to stay another year?

i don't want to believe it. i'm not ready yet. i know he's having knee issues but damn, do you remember just how monster he was last year against the clips? i think we'll get another duncan game this playoffs, a couple of em.

[T Park]

I really think this is it for TD.

I'll be shocked if he came back for another year.

This team just has too many parts not showing up most of the time. The reason they won in 14' is because all players 1-10 were pretty much equals -- everyone was ballin. Now its a 2 man show with glimpses of decent play here or there from everyone else. Way too inconsistent to beat a team like GS or CLE.

Not a hater, just being a realist. I hope I'm wrong and TD goes out a champion.. I just don't see it and that's okay. Five.


Spoken like someone that's trying to take themselves into an opinion.

[BillMc]

If he can, I think he will play one more year. Have a feeling he does not want to go into the HOF the same year as Kobe.

And likely KG, whom he loathes.

[BillMc]

I have. They have a cake-walk in the Eastern Conference. But they are playing like a well-oiled machine, and they will give the Western Conference champ (whoever it is) a run for their money. They have played like a totally different team since the end of the regular season. You are right, sir.

They are playing well but its difficult to measure given the level of competition in the East. Detroit, even though they got swept, was pretty competitive with them. So this impression of the Cavs is more about them blowing out the Hawks. I think the West champ will be heavily favored against the Cavs, and rightly so.

I hope it is the Spurs who get the chance to prove my point. :D

[Down Under]

He was rolling till the all star break and something has happened to his knee. Obviously it wasn't structural or he would have sat out longer than 2 weeks. Can only think the tendonosis in his quads has finally worn his knee down, which would be improbable to come back from at his age.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

You haven't been watching them play this playoff run.

I actually have. Yes they are poised to sweep through the first 2 rounds. But why am I not impressed. Simple, they rely far far too much on the three ball. Golden State and San Antonio are the best in the league at defending the 3 ball. Also, they havent even looked like world beaters squeaking by Detroit in 3 of the 4 games. And squeaking by the Hawks in Game 1 and 3. I dont think they will be a pushover but they certainly wont beat the WC champion and I would be quite surprised if they could push either us or the Warriors past 6 games with their heavy reliance on the 3 ball.

Also,

LOL Tyrone Lue Coaching any team to a championship
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Spurs 4 The Win]

He was rolling till the all star break and something has happened to his knee. Obviously it wasn't structural or he would have sat out longer than 2 weeks. Can only think the tendonosis in his quads has finally worn his knee down, which would be improbable to come back from at his age.

Its a good thing we have the Spurs team doctor keeping us in the loop here :lol

[Spurs 4 The Win]

They are playing well but its difficult to measure given the level of competition in the East. Detroit, even though they got swept, was pretty competitive with them. So this impression of the Cavs is more about them blowing out the Hawks. I think the West champ will be heavily favored against the Cavs, and rightly so.

I hope it is the Spurs who get the chance to prove my point. :D

This :toast

[024]

Not sure what's wrong with Duncan. Maybe Adams and Kanter are just too young and athletic for him. Hopefully, Duncan can make the adjustments and be a positive force on the offensive end. The more Duncan struggles, the more minutes Aldridge has to play and the more minutes a Diaw-West front court will get.

[UZER]

And likely KG, whom he loathes.

Forgot about him. Great point!

[Down Under]

Its a good thing we have the Spurs team doctor keeping us in the loop here :lol
Anytime nigga

[sasaint]

They are playing well but its difficult to measure given the level of competition in the East. Detroit, even though they got swept, was pretty competitive with them. So this impression of the Cavs is more about them blowing out the Hawks. I think the West champ will be heavily favored against the Cavs, and rightly so.

I hope it is the Spurs who get the chance to prove my point. :D

Absolutely! Agreed! I just would expect the series to be a dogfight. But the Spurs know how to handle Lebron! :D

[BillMc]

This :toast


Absolutely! Agreed! I just would expect the series to be a dogfight. But the Spurs know how to handle Lebron! :D

Cheers guys. :toast Another June trouncing of LeBron is the perfect summer fun.


Forgot about him. Great point!

:boboNot sure it'd be enough to stay another year just to avoid them, but Timmy spending the last meaningful night of his sports career having to pretend to like KG and Kobe during HOF dinner/ceremonies wouldn't be any fun. Wait a year and bask in the sun without those two.

Plus he needs to be here next year to indoctrinate Durant on Spurs culture. (I'm kidding...sort of...)

[BillMc]

I actually have. Yes they are poised to sweep through the first 2 rounds. But why am I not impressed. Simple, they rely far far too much on the three ball. Golden State and San Antonio are the best in the league at defending the 3 ball. Also, they havent even looked like world beaters squeaking by Detroit in 3 of the 4 games. And squeaking by the Hawks in Game 1 and 3. I dont think they will be a pushover but they certainly wont beat the WC champion and I would be quite surprised if they could push either us or the Warriors past 6 games with their heavy reliance on the 3 ball.



This.

[UZER]

Cheers guys. :toast Another June trouncing of LeBron is the perfect summer fun.



:boboNot sure it'd be enough to stay another year just to avoid them, but Timmy spending the last meaningful night of his sports career having to pretend to like KG and Kobe during HOF dinner/ceremonies wouldn't be any fun. Wait a year and bask in the sun without those two.

Plus he needs to be here next year to indoctrinate Durant on Spurs culture. (I'm kidding...sort of...)

Mine was kinda tongue in cheek too. I'm being selfish, but just a gut feeling TD is aware of it and personally just does not like those dudes. Kobe and KG deserve each other.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Not sure what's wrong with Duncan. Maybe Adams and Kanter are just too young and athletic for him. Hopefully, Duncan can make the adjustments and be a positive force on the offensive end. The more Duncan struggles, the more minutes Aldridge has to play and the more minutes a Diaw-West front court will get.

I do believe he suffered after that injury, but I think these bigs give everyone a lot of trouble. In the Game 2 loss where everyone gave him shit for having a bad game, I think he had 9 boards and missed several bunnies. I don't think he missed those bunnies because of a bad knee. While not as mobile as he used to be, he still found himself at the rim for what should have been several "easy" layups. They didn't go down. Had a few of them gone down, and he pulls one more board down, and Patty drains that last shot, we probably don't hear all the criticism of Duncan and his workman-like double double. It's really all those missed shots and the coin flip loss that skewed perspective. I think he's doing an admirable job battling on the boards, for a 40 year old.

Regarding his offense, he's not as effective as he used to be, so even if he could get into a rythm and put up a few more points, you hardly want him to when Aldridge has been a destroyer of worlds against OKC. I think it's smart to not have Duncan as any focal point of the scoring and just put in the easy/convenient/opportunistic buckets, or fire if the shot clock is running down. Seems like a good gameplan not to lean on his offense. The only problem was when he got a lot of those type attempts, they didn't fall. I think he can still get some to fall. And of all his missed bunnies it would have only taken one, and we'd be 3-0.

He may not come back next year if his knee injury is too serious, but I still have faith he's gonna be just good enough this year. I am far more worried about Kawhi living up to the hype than whether we get 6 or 12 from Duncan.

[Spurtacular]

He'll finish averaging 16ppg for his career if that happens.

Do you really want him to walk like McHale when he's older? He's 40 bruh, he gave us his all

I suppose that's a concern; but McHale had different injuries.

Nobody would blame Timmy if he walked away; but there's nothing wrong with rooting for him to keep playing if that's what he wants to do.

[Spurtacular]

People forget that Tim would be a double-double guy still on most teams. He is just smart enough to defer to a prime LMA as well as Kawhi.

[Harry Callahan]

I hope Tim can play another year and blend into the mix. I think he still has a very positive effect on the squad - he is a great teammate and will not be a distraction if his minutes are declining as they have recently.

Manu (I believe) is going to call it career this year since he is playing in the Olympics. He will leave everything out there on the floor for his country without worrying about the next NBA season.

Manu still has the ability to be a major positive factor for the Spurs in 2016-2017, but I don't think he wants to go through another season like this one with the tough injury he sustained. He has often mentioned the family time he is looking forward to.

I hate it that TD and Manu are just about at the end and one more year would be a great bonus. That sad day when they are both former Spurs is coming in either 45 days or next spring, that is for sure.

The Front Office may want to get younger in a couple of spots next to keep the Kawhi/LMA transformation/momentum going. If SA can add the right veteran player AND get a quality point guard to eventually take over, SA can be a high level squad competing for championships the next 3-4 years. That is a realistic possibility with a little good luck and right player acquisitions.

[spurraider21]

i would love for him to go out on top... in a future season

i never want the fucker to retire. let him be 48 years old playing 5 minutes a game, he'd still be an asset

[TheCerebral1]

He's playing what you need out of a 40 year old. We've got West and Diaw to cushion his blow to keep him gassed up for the rest of the run.

[hitmantb]

You don't want Tim to walk like Kevin McHale, or Gabriel Batistuta who begged the doctor to cut his legs off because he has no tendons/cartilages left (sounds very scary, almost just like the Duncan situation).

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2eycmz/after_retiring_gabriel_batistuta_had_so_much_pain/

So yes, I really feel this is the end, you don't want the wheels to LITERALLY fall off.

In hindsight I wish he retired on top in 2014, he may have done permanent damage to his post retirement health.

[SAGirl]

You don't want Tim to walk like Kevin McHale, or Gabriel Batistuta who begged the doctor to cut his legs off because he has no tendons/cartilages left (sounds very scary, almost just like the Duncan situation).

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/2eycmz/after_retiring_gabriel_batistuta_had_so_much_pain/

So yes, I really feel this is the end, you don't want the wheels to LITERALLY fall off.

In hindsight I wish he retired on top in 2014, he may have done permanent damage to his post retirement health.
I agree. I was watching a section of the blowout first game in this series. It wasn't even a physical game in comparison to the rest, and he had rested for days after the Memphis series, about half way through the third I saw him hold the "good" knee and flex it as if it was bothering him. It's got to be age degeneration/degradation of some kind and not injury. Pop would not let him play injured. Age has caught up with him. It is time.

He's still a positive bc he's so savvy but he's in pain. I wish he stayed as an assistant coach. Maybe one of the assistant coaches gets hired over the summer to a HC job and Timmy gets to be one. I am not sure if he's interested, but he seems a natural teacher and motivator for young players.

[SpursFan86]

Looked up the numbers for the first time, and they definitely seem to back up the theory that it was the right knee injury that really sent him into this decline.

Pre-knee injury (36 games, 26.1 mpg): 56.4 TS%
Post-knee injury (24 games, 23.4 mpg): 48.5 TS%

As others have said, he was playing really well in the 1st half of the season. Hardly noticed any decline at all compared to where he was at last year. Then the knee injury came up and ever since he's struggled considerably. His offense is essentially non-existent, and even his defense has fallen off although he's still really solid in that aspect.

I still hope that he's capable of a few big games in these playoffs, but his days of consistently being a main contributor are definitely over IMO :depressed It's hard enough to play with one good knee, much less none. I don't see any scenario where he returns next year.

Hopefully Pop actually gives him some minutes in these next few games. We could use the rebounding and I don't want to see the GOAT go out playing 10 mpg.

[TDomination]

I see him battling for Rebounds against Adams and Kanter, deflecting the ball, pushing it so that it goes to a Spurs player.
Unless he is seriously hurting from his knees, I don't see why Pop wouldn't put Duncan in place of West in the last 6 minutes of the game. We'll see how he looks game 5.