Documents show Big 12 Flirting with Houston, Memphis, others

[elbamba]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/15502359/documents-show-big-12-flirting-houston-memphis-ucf-colorado-state-expansion

With Big 12 expansion back on the table, officials from the University of Houston, the University of Memphis, University of Central Florida and Colorado State University have been lobbying members of the Big 12's composition committee, according to documents ESPN.com has obtained.

West Virginia president Gordon Gee is one of three Big 12 presidents on the committee, which is charged with exploring expansion candidates. Documents reveal that Gee has been busy in that role in recent months, which has included a trip to the University of Houston in late November.

Documents show that Gee flew to Houston on Nov. 29 to tour the school's athletic facilities and speak with top officials. According to an itinerary outlining the visit, Gee met with Houston president Renu Khator for more than an hour the morning of Nov. 30, then was taken on a tour of the athletic facilities by athletic director Hunter Yurachek and football coach Tom Herman. Gee finished up by having lunch with Khator, three of the school's regents, vice chancellor Eloise Stuhr and Camden Property Trust CEO Ric Campo, who reportedly played a major part in the city of Houston landing the 2017 Super Bowl.

Khator followed up by forwarding Gee a spreadsheet of the Houston football team's TV ratings in the Houston market during the 2015 season.

Khator, however, isn't the only Big 12 expansion president that Gee has been in contact with.

On Feb. 24, Memphis president David Rudd penned a letter to Gee and copied Oklahoma president David Boren and Baylor president Ken Starr, the other two members of the composition committee, as well as former Big 12 board chairman and Kansas State president Kirk Schulz. In the letter, Rudd pledged that Memphis will make a $500 million investment in academic and athletic infrastructure over the next five years. Rudd also enclosed a letter from FedEx chairman Fred Smith, who stated that the delivery services giant headquartered in Memphis will be behind the school's Big 12 campaign.

"We strongly support the university's efforts to become a member of an expanded Big 12 athletic conference," Smith wrote to Rudd in a letter dated Feb. 23. "In support of [Memphis'] Big 12 aspirations, we have researched college conference sponsorships and are prepared to become a major Big 12 sponsor of football and basketball."

Smith also wrote that FedEx would be prepared to sponsor a Big 12 championship game.

We believe the University of Memphis and the Big 12 are a great fit and hope our support will contribute to the University of Memphis becoming a member of this storied athletic conference in the near future," Smith wrote.

Other documents ESPN.com gathered show that the presidents at Colorado State and Central Florida also sent brochures to Gee promoting their schools to the Big 12.

"I appreciate very much our [phone] conversation, and I appreciate the information you sent me," Gee wrote UCF president John Hitt on Oct. 6. "Be assured that the University of Central Florida is very much on our radar screen. The future of expansion is very much uncertain, but I also know that we are looking at these issues very carefully given the tumultuous nature of college athletics."

Gee also praised Colorado State in a July 21 letter to president Tony Frank.

"Indeed, Colorado State is making a statement and moving swiftly into the forefront of universities, not only in your region but nationally," Gee wrote. "Be assured that my colleagues in the Big 12 and I will take careful notice."

Boren has pushed Big 12 expansion back into the limelight, repeatedly calling the league "psychologically disadvantaged' without 12 teams, a championship game and a conference network.

The Big 12 presidents and athletic directors will meet again May 31 in Irving, Texas, where the topic of possible expansion is expected to be discussed heavily.

[Blake]

They should have added Louisville instead of Neck Virginia

[DMX7]

Big 12 does not need Memphis or Houston.

[Blake]

Adding Memphis is so underwhelming.

Houston should have been added in the very beginning over Baylor.

[elbamba]

I would consider adding Memphis simply for the basketball team and the fact that they will have a backer like FedEx behind them. I think that BYU and Colorado St. are probably the best options though.

[Pelicans78]

Hopefully Tulane will eventually get an invite in the next few years to bring that New Orleans market and Louisiana recruiting IF the new coaches in football and basketball build successful programs like the new baseball coach has the last two seasons. Tulane brings academic credibility as well. Enough talent in the state to consistently win.

[spurs1990]

I'd like them to expand by 4 to 14 by bringing in four of the strongest AAC programs.

Houston, Cincinnati, Central Florida, and East Carolina would be my choice.

Expanding the footprint into Ohio, Florida, and North Carolina brings in a ton of eyes and attention.
It's a combination of teams that either have been, are or can be highly competitive on the BCS level.

Lots of potential and strong support.

In terms of geography, if you're already in the mountains of Appalachia, then might as well bring in a North Carolina school that is rabid as any big 12 base.

[spurs1990]

I'll amend my post to say the four teams should (could) be:

1) BYU
2) Cincinnati
3) Houston
4) Tulane

[Blake]

Why Tulane?

[spurs1990]

I personally didn't consider them until a couple sources - espn writer/BYU channel brought them up as a potential wildcard.

And the reasons brought up are among other things, the academic contribution for the league.

They would be to the Big12 what Vandy/Northwestern/Duke are to their respective conferences.
Sure historically a likely cruddy on-field record, but the potential to better themselves with the P5 money.

Personally, I was thinking Tulane would be a good add-on to the other 3 most brought up.
I mean there's gotta be programs that ride the middle/bottom of every conference.

And to clarify all of this is if the conference wants to add 4 teams.

If it's just two, then it's gonna be a wild free for all.

[playblair]

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[Darius Bieber]

I like the idea of opening up the Big 12 to these schools. Remember, many didn't think TCU would amount to anything coming into the conference, and now they're one of the best programs in football.

[Pelicans78]

Why Tulane?

I'm a Tulane alum so I can make a case outside of athletic performance. Tulane can bring the New Orleans market as well as Louisiana recruiting into the Big 12. Also, it's an prestigious academic institution which would help the Big 12's overall ranking. Performance on the field has to improve in football and basketball, but they have brought in a new president, new AD and new coaches in football and basketball (Mike Dunleavy) so things should improve on the field as well. However, they need to show it for a few seasons. The previous president and AD were disasters for the last 16 years.

[Blake]

I'm a Tulane alum so I can make a case outside of athletic performance. Tulane can bring the New Orleans market as well as Louisiana recruiting into the Big 12. Also, it's an prestigious academic institution which would help the Big 12's overall ranking. Performance on the field has to improve in football and basketball, but they have brought in a new president, new AD and new coaches in football and basketball (Mike Dunleavy) so things should improve on the field as well. However, they need to show it for a few seasons. The previous president and AD were disasters for the last 16 years.

Sounds good to me.

[spurs1990]

Since we got Tech and Iowa State fans here...

What do ya'll honestly feel the Big 12 should do, keeping in mind the best interests of your respective teams?

I know bringing in a team like UH for example is not being received too well primarily for the recruiting aspect - they would take players who otherwise would sign with Tech, ISU, OU, and the like, to be able to play in a P5 league.

As objectively as I can portray Houston's inclusion, I would say that having a potential formidable team in the conference will add to the long-term viability of it - in other words the schools I mentioned may lose those recruits here and there, but won't have to run for cover should Horn or Sooner decide to pack up and leave.

I think Tech would be a candidate for Pac, but who knows maybe UT wants to take UH as its partner during the next round...

ISU is a AAU school, so they would be attractive in that regard...but it would be hard to get into the Big10 with the Hawkeyes there, and not sure if the SEC would covet that geographical area.

[Blake]

I dunno. I'm mixed on it.

Houston makes sense but it's boring and adds a middle team just like Tech and Tcu

It also doesn't add any extra market value to the big 12

[elbamba]

There are no sexy choices unless it is true that Nebraska wants back and UCLA can get out of the PAC 10. If that were the case then I would push for BYU and Houston and get 14 teams. I doubt those rumors have much merit to them.

[playblair]

I dunno. I'm mixed on it.

Houston makes sense but it's boring and adds a middle team just like Tech and Tcu

It also doesn't add any extra market value to the big 12

they add another top 25 program to the conference..............

with houston
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without houston
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[Blake]

That's a one year thing. At the end of the day, they're a middle tier football program.

[JFK]

That's a one year thing. At the end of the day, they're a middle tier football program.

Yeah, and Baylor might soon be going back to the old ways of getting drubbed 49-0 regularly. Well, maybe not that bad but definitely taking a huge step back.

[djohn2oo8]

That's a one year thing. At the end of the day, they're a middle tier football program.

No, it's not a one year thing. Tom Herman makes them more than that, if you haven't seen the type of talent he is pulling in.

[Blake]

No, it's not a one year thing. Tom Herman makes them more than that, if you haven't seen the type of talent he is pulling in.


https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/

What do you consider being 41? Upper middle?

[djohn2oo8]

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/

What do you consider being 41? Upper middle?
https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2017
And they move up 9 spots the next year. Like I said, Herman will have them in the top 20. Top flight coach building a big time program.

[Blake]

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2017
And they move up 9 spots the next year. Like I said, Herman will have them in the top 20. Top flight coach building a big time program.

No he won't. It's still Houston

[texas4ever]

Bye Bye BYU

762795111663009792

[spurs1990]

Houston is a bit of a Lazarus story. They were left for dead at the start of this century and in fact were considering giving up IA football.

Art Briles was brought in to run his HS offense and slowly but surely elevated UH to respectable levels. His successor Sumlin benefited from well-developed Briles recruits (namely Case Keenum) and all of a sudden they were in the top 10 during one stretch.

Fast forward to last year and a brilliant gamble on an OSU offensive coordinator with strong Texas recruiting ties brought the program to heights not seen since the late 1980s.

The next 4 months have the potential to vault the program from a one-hit-wonder or upstart, to a full fledged top level contender.

The biggest question will be if the fans come out from the woodworks. That's what separates the G5 program to what the Big12 teams have - large base of fans.
And as we know the city of Houston isn't exactly known for loyal, dedicated sports fans.

Well except for the Texans...which I will forever be puzzled with.

[benefactor]

Well except for the Texans...which I will forever be puzzled with.
We love the pain in a strange way. I think a lot of them would quit watching if the Texans actually became successful.

[Blake]

Houston is a bit of a Lazarus story. They were left for dead at the start of this century and in fact were considering giving up IA football.

Art Briles was brought in to run his HS offense and slowly but surely elevated UH to respectable levels. His successor Sumlin benefited from well-developed Briles recruits (namely Case Keenum) and all of a sudden they were in the top 10 during one stretch.

Fast forward to last year and a brilliant gamble on an OSU offensive coordinator with strong Texas recruiting ties brought the program to heights not seen since the late 1980s.

The next 4 months have the potential to vault the program from a one-hit-wonder or upstart, to a full fledged top level contender.

The biggest question will be if the fans come out from the woodworks. That's what separates the G5 program to what the Big12 teams have - large base of fans.
And as we know the city of Houston isn't exactly known for loyal, dedicated sports fans.

Well except for the Texans...which I will forever be puzzled with.

Sumlin benefited from having Holgorson and Kingsbury

[playblair]

reason expansion is needed..................

1 b12 player Blake

http://247sports.com/Article/Preseason-247Sports-All-American-team-46838477

[Blake]

I don't know what that has to do with expansion but yeah, it's starting to sink in nationwide that Mahomes > Mayfield

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, and Baylor might soon be going back to the old ways of getting drubbed 49-0 regularly. Well, maybe not that bad but definitely taking a huge step back.

We can always hope.

[playblair]

houston draws ratings Obstructed_View (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1366) spurs_fan_in_exile (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=536) Blake (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3460)

772456978132135936

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I was in the stands so I can't take any credit. I've always ragged on Houston as being a bandwagon sports town but they will turn out for a winner and that might be biggest accomplishment in the last few years: earning the perception of winners.

[djohn2oo8]

772537367156535296

[Kermit]

I get the optimism, but I can't think of a good reason for Houston's inclusion. They do nothing for the conference as far as expansion targets go.

[Das Texan]

I get the optimism, but I can't think of a good reason for Houston's inclusion. They do nothing for the conference as far as expansion targets go.

its a top 5 market in the fucking nation.

[Kermit]

its a top 5 market in the fucking nation.

That Texas already controls. Why the fuck would they need to add UH? Make recruiting more difficult? Do they make the conference better in the long term? No. It's a good story while Herman is there, but anyone with a brain knows he's out of there in a season or two. Then what? Expansion is stupid because the conference is doomed to fail anyway, but if you must expand go to newer markets.

[Das Texan]

That Texas already controls. Why the fuck would they need to add UH? Make recruiting more difficult? Do they make the conference better in the long term? No. It's a good story while Herman is there, but anyone with a brain knows he's out of there in a season or two. Then what? Expansion is stupid because the conference is doomed to fail anyway, but if you must expand go to newer markets.

i dont know if texas necessarily controls the houston market with a&m around and the proximity of lsu and the sec.

[djohn2oo8]

That Texas already controls. Why the fuck would they need to add UH? Make recruiting more difficult? Do they make the conference better in the long term? No. It's a good story while Herman is there, but anyone with a brain knows he's out of there in a season or two. Then what? Expansion is stupid because the conference is doomed to fail anyway, but if you must expand go to newer markets.
Texas will always get recruits. Recruiting would get difficult for TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, and most of all Texas A&M. And no, Texas does not control the Houston market right now. Plenty of Houston guys going to the SEC. If UH gets into the Big 12, why would Herman be in a hurry to go anywhere? He gets a 5 million dollar bonus if they get in the conference. It will look very weak on the Big 12 to add 2 schools outside of Texas while you have a possible playoff contender, at least this year.

[djohn2oo8]

It would also make it harder for SEC teams to recruit Houston as well as they have been.

[Kermit]

Texas will always get recruits. Recruiting would get difficult for TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, and most of all Texas A&M. And no, Texas does not control the Houston market right now. Plenty of Houston guys going to the SEC. If UH gets into the Big 12, why would Herman be in a hurry to go anywhere? He gets a 5 million dollar bonus if they get in the conference. It will look very weak on the Big 12 to add 2 schools outside of Texas while you have a possible playoff contender, at least this year.

Texas has sucked the last six years. That looks to be ending. There is a market correlation between their suckage and their market decline in Houston. Last night they absolutely dominated the ratings. I get that they were the only show on, but still. There is absolutely no incentive for the Big 12 to let Houston in. They'll have a hard time getting 8 votes. Other than a momentary blip of football significance, what do they bring?

[djohn2oo8]

Texas has sucked the last six years. That looks to be ending. There is a market correlation between their suckage and their market decline in Houston. Last night they absolutely dominated the ratings. I get that they were the only show on, but still. There is absolutely no incentive for the Big 12 to let Houston in. They'll have a hard time getting 8 votes. Other than a momentary blip of football significance, what do they bring?
I would argue UH in the Big XII will likely only attract more local Houston kids to consider the Big XII. That is obviously a positive, taking back the market from the SEC. Adding UH will make the conference more competitive, especially in recruiting. I mean, why are Big XII coaches openly shitting their pants at the idea of adding them? One is, they don't want to play them, that is more competition. Two, look at what Herman is doing without being in a P5 conference, and if they get in, the Houston market will get harder to recruit. So if you want to make the conference more competitive, UH needs a spot.

772456978132135936

UH/OU had better ratings in Houston than UT/ND, so no UT actually did not dominate the ratings in Houston. UH/OU drew a better rating in Houston without being the only game on.

[Kermit]

So, who votes for Houston? They need 8 votes. Where do they get them?

[djohn2oo8]

So, who votes for Houston? They need 8 votes. Where do they get them?
Never said they WILL get the votes, I agree they won't get the votes. All I know is Texas will be one. I think Memphis being cut from consideration while Rice and Tulane are being considered signals expansion may not happen at all.

[Kermit]

That's what I've been saying. There's no reason to expand. There's no more more money to be had, no more prestige to extract. If Texas is on the rise (again) then that will take care of many of the leagues problems. At least until 2021 when Texas leaves.

[Blake]

So, who votes for Houston? They need 8 votes. Where do they get them?

Tech has said out loud they approve Houston.

[Kermit]

Well there's one. I know Texas has come out and said they'll vote for them. There's two. Who else? I'll bet TCU isn't going to vote for them.

[DMX7]

Cincinnati needs to be one of the teams added. It's not fair to WVU for them to have no other Big XII school remotely close to it. They may end up leaving if we don't give them at least one team with at least some degree of proximity to play.

[DMX7]

Well there's one. I know Texas has come out and said they'll vote for them. There's two. Who else? I'll bet TCU isn't going to vote for them.

I don't see the Oklahoma schools wanting more recruiting competition either. Baylor is almost certainly a no vote.

[Blake]

I don't see the Oklahoma schools wanting more recruiting competition either. Baylor is almost certainly a no vote.

I thought sure Tech wouldn't want to fight Houston for east Texas recruits either. Oh well.

[DMX7]

I thought sure Tech wouldn't want to fight Houston for east Texas recruits either. Oh well.

Let's be honest, they don't want Houston in the Big XII but they don't want to play the bad guy for trying to keep a fellow Texas team out of the conference. So publicly they are going to say they support Houston. I guess I'm ok with Houston in the Big XII.

[Kermit]

I know Texas is trying to build a 300 acre satellite in Houston and needs UH support to do so. Imo, it's why the governor and many Texas admins have supported Houstons inclusion in the Big 12.

https://www.texastribune.org/2015/11/05/ut-system-plans-open-new-campus-houston/

[Blake]

Let's be honest, they don't want Houston in the Big XII but they don't want to play the bad guy for trying to keep a fellow Texas team out of the conference. So publicly they are going to say they support Houston. I guess I'm ok with Houston in the Big XII.

If they really didn't want Houston, I'd think the smart play would be just to not say anything

[DMX7]

If they really didn't want Houston, I'd think the smart play would be just to not say anything
That would be interpreted as saying no.

[Obstructed_View]

Houston already dominates the shit out of recruiting in their area. There doesn't seem much to lose, and having another strong football school helps everyone. The odds of the coach sticking around increase greatly if UH join a P5 conference.

[Pelicans78]

Looks like this expansion is being held up due to UT-OU bickering about Houston and BYU; This could be bad for the Big Smell in the long run. Currently the metrics have the conference easily the worst out of the power 5 and not that much better than the AAC.

[Blake]

Houston already dominates the shit out of recruiting in their area. There doesn't seem much to lose, and having another strong football school helps everyone. The odds of the coach sticking around increase greatly if UH join a P5 conference.

Money is to lose. There's no guarantee that adding any more schools adds value to the Big 12

[Blake]

Looks like this expansion is being held up due to UT-OU bickering about Houston and BYU; This could be bad for the Big Smell in the long run. Currently the metrics have the conference easily the worst out of the power 5 and not that much better than the AAC.

Meh, it goes on cycles

[playblair]

byu cincy

787858816062795776

[Pelicans78]

byu cincy

787858816062795776

Neither.