Bittersweet SSD results

[Wild Cobra]

I installed the 512 GB Samsung 950 Pro SDD I ordered today. It is slower than my 850 EVO. I contacted Samsung, and it turns out to be somewhat what I expected. The downloading of their driver made no difference. It turns out that the OEM Dell motherboard is only using one of the 4 PCI lanes it's connected to. However, their Magician Software has a "rapid mode" that dramatically sped up my 850 EVO.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Computer/Magician%20003_zpswf63siy9.png

Their software shows differently than Passmark, but look at the differences in my sequential read and writes.

Anyway, again, the 950 Pro is only using or allowed 1 lane on my system. I haven't checked the BIOS yet, other settings, or called Dell yet. The 950 Pro is suppose to be about 3 times faster than the 850 EVO, and a max of 32 GB/sec. It is only about 40% as fast as the 850 EVO on my system before ding the rapid mode option on the EVO.

Reads went from 550 to 5,815 MB/sec, and writes 494 to 4,440 MB/sec...

I already cloned my OS to the Pro and will use it. Maybe there is a solution out there to see the 32 GB/sec potential.

Passmark shows about 1/2 as fast:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Computer/Passmark001_zps69tywdzd.png

[Wild Cobra]

Yep.

Only using one PCIe lane:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Computer/Magician%20004_zpszxfl7oaj.png

But keep in mind, my motherboard was never designed for a 4-lane PCIe SSD, and I'm using an adapter card.

I do expect these will perform good on motherboards made to utilize them.

[ElNono]

yeah, that largely depends on your motherboard and CPU configuration. IIRC, I did mention PCI lanes at some point in some post...

[ElNono]

It's tricky, because your video card, USB3, regular SATA all use PCI lanes, and there's only so many, and have specific configurations (ie: 16x+4x, or 8x+8x+4x)...

If your 850 EVO is on a M.2, that might be stealing PCI lanes from the 950. IIRC, the newer Skylake board (Z170, etc) reserve 4 lanes for storage. But older boards are different, and some boards are just wired differently.

[Wild Cobra]

Damn...

Some searches have people in forums saying the connector that should support 4 lanes has only one lane connected to it.

Damn Dell...

The 950 Pro is a waste for this motherboard.

Good excuse to build a computer, right!

[Wild Cobra]

It's tricky, because your video card, USB3, regular SATA all use PCI lanes, and there's only so many, and have specific configurations (ie: 16x+4x, or 8x+8x+4x)...

If your 850 EVO is on a M.2, that might be stealing PCI lanes from the 950. IIRC, the newer Skylake board (Z170, etc) reserve 4 lanes for storage. But older boards are different, and some boards are just wired differently.
The adapter card has two M.2 slots. The 850 is a SATA, and I have a SATA cable to it. It only takes power off the card. The 950 is bussed fully to the PCIe

It's just the connector only uses one lane...

Here is my card, SATA connector top right:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Computer/20160511_183931_zpsfoctg9rn.jpg

Installed:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Computer/20160511_184329_zpss6ly8yat.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

It's tricky, because your video card, USB3, regular SATA all use PCI lanes, and there's only so many, and have specific configurations (ie: 16x+4x, or 8x+8x+4x)...


It appears mine is a 16x+1x+1x...

[ElNono]

It appears mine is a 16x+1x+1x...

I don't think that's a valid config. Check how many PCIe lanes your CPU supports. You can look that up at Intel.

24 lane CPUs will do 16x+8x or 8x+8x+8x in SLI. 40 lane CPUs will do 16x+8x+8x+8x or 16x+16x+8x in SLI.

16x is only for the video card (which will drop to 8x+8x on 24 lane if you're on a SLI setup, which you are not).

Your 4x port should be getting the 4 lanes, unless something isn't wired right on the mobo or something else on our system is using up lanes (SATA3, USB3, etc will also use lanes from that remaining 8x pool if you're on a 24 lane CPU).

You might only need to upgrade the CPU to a 40 lane ones. Chips like the Haswell i7 5930X or 5960X do 40 lanes.

Older CPUs only do 16 lanes. There's some intermediate, like Haswell i7 5820k that do 28 lanes.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think that's a valid config. Check how many PCIe lanes your CPU supports. You can look that up at Intel.

24 lane CPUs will do 16x+8x or 8x+8x+8x in SLI. 40 lane CPUs will do 16x+8x+8x+8x or 16x+16x+8x in SLI.

16x is only for the video card (which will drop to 8x+8x on 24 lane if you're on a SLI setup, which you are not).

Your 4x port should be getting the 4 lanes, unless something isn't wired right on the mobo or something else on our system is using up lanes (SATA3, USB3, etc will also use lanes from that remaining 8x pool if you're on a 24 lane CPU).

You might only need to upgrade the CPU to a 40 lane ones. Chips like the Haswell i7 5930X or 5960X do 40 lanes.

Older CPUs only do 16 lanes. There's some intermediate, like Haswell i7 5820k that do 28 lanes.

Interesting. I have the i7-4790. I just looked I up, and it only has 16 lanes. That probably explains why it is even slower yet than 1/4 of what it should be.

Think I should take the GTX 950 out, put my GT 720 back in, and do another benchmark?

[baseline bum]

Doesn't the chipset provide some lanes for SSDs, ElNono?

[ElNono]

Interesting. I have the i7-4790. I just looked I up, and it only has 16 lanes. That probably explains why it is even slower yet than 1/4 of what it should be.

Think I should take the GTX 950 out, put my GT 720 back in, and do another benchmark?

A 720 only uses 8 lanes. That doesn't automatically means you'll get the extra lanes on the 4x port, but you could try.

[ElNono]

Doesn't the chipset provide some lanes for SSDs, ElNono?

Depends on the mobo. The CPU has X amount, and the board does the allocation based on what's plugged in. Some CPUs mandate certain amount to be used specifically for storage (ie: IIRC, Skylake has 4 reserved for storage), and those the mobo can't reroute. Also newer CPUs reserve a few for USB3, Gigabit Ethernet, etc, that don't count towards the total that are exposed on the PCIE bus (since those modules are now built into the chip itself). But, if you have, say, an extra Marvell SATA controller or a RealTek nic in the mobo, they'll use a lane unless you turn them off in the BIOS.

[Wild Cobra]

A 720 only uses 8 lanes. That doesn't automatically means you'll get the extra lanes on the 4x port, but you could try.

Well, I had to remove the GTX 950 for access to the mSATA. So for a test, I put the GT 720 back in for cloning the SSD. Still made no difference. Besides, reading forums talking about the bottom slot, there was consensus that only one lane is wired to it. One person said the manual even says so. I haven't verified yet, but I just moved my OS to the 1 TB SSD, so I don't care now anyway.

GTX 950 back in... I'm going to leave the 950 Pro SSD alone, or take it out. I'll use in in the motherboard I build later. I did a full format on the original 1 TB drive, and will set it up for automatic backups to it. I might move my personal folder to the small SSD, I should probably just take the 500 GB HD out since I don't need this much capacity.

[baseline bum]

Well, I had to remove the GTX 950 for access to the mSATA. So for a test, I put the GT 720 back in for cloning the SSD. Still made no difference. Besides, reading forums talking about the bottom slot, there was consensus that only one lane is wired to it. One person said the manual even says so. I haven't verified yet, but I just moved my OS to the 1 TB SSD, so I don't care now anyway.

GTX 950 back in... I'm going to leave the 950 Pro SSD alone, or take it out. I'll use in in the motherboard I build later. I did a full format on the original 1 TB drive, and will set it up for automatic backups to it. I might move my personal folder to the small SSD, I should probably just take the 500 GB HD out since I don't need this much capacity.

Wow that sucks, why in the hell would they give a PCIEx4 slot and only wire it to support PCIEx1? Shit like that is why I hate prebuilt desktop computers, you usually don't know the motherboard you're getting.

[ElNono]

Wow that sucks, why in the hell would they give a PCIEx4 slot and only wire it to support PCIEx1? Shit like that is why I hate prebuilt desktop computers, you usually don't know the motherboard you're getting.

Yeah that sucks. Just stupid too, why spend extra money in the 4x connector if you're only getting 1x... smh

[ElNono]

What you could try is removing the videocards entirely and using the built-in video, hook up the SSD card on the x16 slot.

Just to make sure the card is not a dud. It should get all 4 lanes.

[Wild Cobra]

What you could try is removing the videocards entirely and using the built-in video, hook up the SSD card on the x16 slot.

Just to make sure the card is not a dud. It should get all 4 lanes.

I've had this computer since Jan or Feb last year. I'm just not going to worry about it. I wasn't certain it would work anyway, but it isn't a wast of a $300+ SSD because I will use it in the new computer I build.

Besides, I just now looked at the owners manual. It does say: PCI-Express x1 card slot (PCI-EX1_4).

Page 13 and 14:

http://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_xps_desktop/xps-8700_owner's%20manual_en-us.pdf

I would have never suspected them using the slot that way either. I was more concerned of it not supporting M.2 PCIe memory, and I wouldn't have bought the 512 GB 950 Pro if I didn't have a near future use for it anyway.

[ElNono]

I've had this computer since Jan or Feb last year. I'm just not going to worry about it. I wasn't certain it would work anyway, but it isn't a wast of a $300+ SSD because I will use it in the new computer I build.

Besides, I just now looked at the owners manual. It does say: PCI-Express x1 card slot (PCI-EX1_4).

Page 13 and 14:

http://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_xps_desktop/xps-8700_owner's%20manual_en-us.pdf

I would have never suspected them using the slot that way either. I was more concerned of it not supporting M.2 PCIe memory, and I wouldn't have bought the 512 GB 950 Pro if I didn't have a near future use for it anyway.

Should work better on a new system :tu

[Wild Cobra]

Should work better on a new system :tu

I'm going back and fourth of what motherboard and CPU to buy. The MSI Godlike is around $530, and the i7-5730K over $600 (if I remember right.) I might just settle for a MoBo half the cost, and the i7-5720K. The performance difference is minimal for the doubling of costs.

Beside... I plan to take my girl to Bebe... That will take about $500 to $1k. She looks so awesome in their stuff...

[baseline bum]

I'm going back and fourth of what motherboard and CPU to buy. The MSI Godlike is around $530, and the i7-5730K over $600 (if I remember right.) I might just settle for a MoBo half the cost, and the i7-5720K. The performance difference is minimal for the doubling of costs.

Beside... I plan to take my girl to Bebe... That will take about $500 to $1k. She looks so awesome in their stuff...

You're thinking the i7-5930k, which is about $550. The i7-5820k is $380 or so, and is virtually the same processor minus some PCIE lanes. Still, the 5820k has 28 lanes and your gpu only uses 16. Note you're going to need an aftermarket heatsink if you buy an X99 cpu, they don't come with stock coolers. The Noctua NHD-15 is awesome if you want something really quiet that'll still allow you overclock a lot, though you need a big case for it, the heatsink is enormous. The NZXT Kraken x61/x41 and Corsair H100i/110i GTX are good liquid cooling choices. The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is decent if you want something cheap and don't plan on pushing too much of an overclock, but I hate the way it installs.

The i7-5930k has PCIE 40 lanes and is mostly useful for people who want to run 4 gpus at once (Nvidia requires 8 lanes minimum per gpu), which is stupid anyways because it leads to nasty stutter in games. Nvidia doesn't even support 3 and 4 way SLI any more in the GTX 1080 coming out in a couple of weeks.

[Wild Cobra]

You're thinking the i7-5930k, which is about $550. The i7-5820k is $380 or so, and is virtually the same processor minus some PCIE lanes. Still, the 5820k has 28 lanes and your gpu only uses 16. Note you're going to need an aftermarket heatsink if you buy an X99 cpu, they don't come with stock coolers. The Noctua NHD-15 is awesome if you want something really quiet that'll still allow you overclock a lot, though you need a big case for it, the heatsink is enormous. The NZXT Kraken x61/x41 and Corsair H100i/110i GTX are good liquid cooling choices. The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is decent if you want something cheap and don't plan on pushing too much of an overclock, but I hate the way it installs.

The i7-5930k has PCIE 40 lanes and is mostly useful for people who want to run 4 gpus at once (Nvidia requires 8 lanes minimum per gpu), which is stupid anyways because it leads to nasty stutter in games. Nvidia doesn't even support 3 and 4 way SLI any more in the GTX 1080 coming out in a couple of weeks.

You're right on the processors. I'm thinking the 40 lanes would be best. I'll probably only get one graphics card, but my gut tells me PCIe storage will go from the 4 lanes, to 8 to 16 in short order.

[ElNono]

You're right on the processors. I'm thinking the 40 lanes would be best. I'll probably only get one graphics card, but my gut tells me PCIe storage will go from the 4 lanes, to 8 to 16 in short order.

You could probably put two of those 4x cards in Raid 0 and the computer would probably boot before you hit the power button... :lol

[baseline bum]

You could probably put two of those 4x cards in Raid 0 and the computer would probably boot before you hit the power button... :lol

LOL Windows 8.1 barely takes longer to turn on than my monitor now that it's on my 850 EVO. :cry Best $150 I ever spent to trim a few seconds off something I do twice a day. :cry

[ElNono]

LOL Windows 8.1 barely takes longer to turn on than my monitor now that it's on my 850 EVO. :cry Best $150 I ever spent to trim a few seconds off something I do twice a day. :cry

feels good :cry

[baseline bum]

You're right on the processors. I'm thinking the 40 lanes would be best. I'll probably only get one graphics card, but my gut tells me PCIe storage will go from the 4 lanes, to 8 to 16 in short order.

It has gone from 2 to 4 in the last couple of years. For instance, the M.2 slot is pretty useless on my motherboard (MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition) since it only supports PCIEx2. But it came out about a year before the 950 Pro.

[Wild Cobra]

You could probably put two of those 4x cards in Raid 0 and the computer would probably boot before you hit the power button... :lol

LOL...

It seems to me that the longest part of the boot sequence is dictated by what the BIOS does. If I removed all devices that rotate, I'm thinking it would boot real fast. Over It starts windows, it is a snap. It takes a while before the BIOS goes there though.

But then a while for me, is like 2 seconds...

[Wild Cobra]

It has gone from 2 to 4 in the last couple of years. For instance, the M.2 slot is pretty useless on my motherboard (MSI Z97S SLI Krait Edition) since it only supports PCIEx2. But it came out about a year before the 950 Pro.

Try a PCIe adapter card. They are only ~ $20.

[baseline bum]

Try a PCIe adapter card. They are only ~ $20.

I don't really have much use for an SSD faster than SATA right now. If I upgrade anything on my computer this year it's going to be the gpu.

[ElNono]

LOL...

It seems to me that the longest part of the boot sequence is dictated by what the BIOS does. If I removed all devices that rotate, I'm thinking it would boot real fast. Over It starts windows, it is a snap. It takes a while before the BIOS goes there though.

But then a while for me, is like 2 seconds...

There's a Fast Boot option on most modern BIOS... it basically skips USB initialization outside of keyboard and mouse, and makes booting up real fast...

Don't go for Ultra Fast Boot though, that one doesn't even do the keyboard or mouse and in order to get to the BIOS you gotta completely shut down your computer then turn it back on.

[baseline bum]

nm lol

[Wild Cobra]

There's a Fast Boot option on most modern BIOS... it basically skips USB initialization outside of keyboard and mouse, and makes booting up real fast...

Don't go for Ultra Fast Boot though, that one doesn't even do the keyboard or mouse and in order to get to the BIOS you gotta completely shut down your computer then turn it back on.

I don't recall seeing any such options of either of my computers. I'll check though. The laptop allows USB and timeout changes, but I'm not sure what to do with them. I don't know about this one.

[Wild Cobra]

Looking at Task Manager, my XPS 8700 takes 21.2 seconds for the BIOS boot, and 10.8 secs on my MSI Laptop. Windows is like a blink compared to that on both systems.

[ElNono]

^ :lol that's pretty ridiculous, tbh... takes about 5 secs from push button to login screen here...

[Wild Cobra]

^ :lol that's pretty ridiculous, tbh... takes about 5 secs from push button to login screen here...
I wish. My old XP system I bought 6-7 years ago was real fast in booting. But it didn't have 32 GB of memory to check. Only 2 GB. I don't see a switch for the memory check. My laptop is sporting 16 GB to check. I don't see a switch for that either, though I haven't tried the ESC key yet.

[ElNono]

I wish. My old XP system I bought 6-7 years ago was real fast in booting. But it didn't have 32 GB of memory to check. Only 2 GB. I don't see a switch for the memory check. My laptop is sporting 16 GB to check. I don't see a switch for that either, though I haven't tried the ESC key yet.

Frankly, it's all about the BIOS... you probably have a bit older mobo, and that's probably why... you should experience a big boost in boot time once you update, especially with the SSD

[Wild Cobra]

Frankly, it's all about the BIOS... you probably have a bit older mobo, and that's probably why... you should experience a big boost in boot time once you update, especially with the SSD

The 8700 is a late 2014 computer. Looks like Dell skimped out on that. Especially with only 1 lane connected to a 4 lane PCIe connector.

I went to Frys today and bought a several Bluray movies, a USB 3 to SATA/IDE adapter, a 32" 2560 x 1440 monitor. Now I can easily extract some information off my old Win 98 computer, and old laptop easily. I could have done so differently, but I did it so I can externally clone.

Ooops... I screwed up.

I need another one for external cloning!

The monitor is sweet....

I almost got 2 of them. It's nice sitting there with three monitors, but it's out of balance. The 24" 1920 x 1200 (16:10) to the left, and the 24" 1920 x 1080 (16:9) to the right of the 32".

I'll stream to the 1080P, play a game on the center one, and do other stuff on the third. I generally have several windows open at once.