Iso/hero ball.

[Holden_Caulfield]

is that our offense for the next 4 years... fuck.

[TheyCallMePro]

We are the Raptors of the West now.

Accept it.

[Hoops Czar]

If mid range Kawhi and LaMarsha are running the show, Sadly, yes.

[TheGoldStandard]

It was the horror of having two premier players in Kawhi/Aldridge a semi athletic Green and absolutely nobody else that can hang with those guys on offense. You can't max potential when you don't have spot up shooters, when you have guys who can't slash to the rim and dish, when your other center can't out rebound other teams. When your PG can't suck in a defense.. They're only as good as the role players so hopefully this offseason they build a team around the guys that matter that can play to their style which will allow for better ball movement, passing and athletic play.

[lefty]

:lol today's NBA

[Dingle Barry]

Dribble dribble dribble turnaround fadeaway

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol today's NBA

:lol Pop watched too much 90s basketball, last off-season, tbh..

[houston spurs fan]

:lol Pop watched too much 90s basketball, last off-season, tbh..
Get the fuck out Laker's fan

[HarlemHeat37]

- Kawhi plays a position that is notoriously tough to build around if you aren't a point-forward like Lebron or Larry Bird(even a generational talent like Durant has only been to 1 Finals)..he isn't a natural playmaker..

- Aldridge is not a playmaker and his style of play is centered around difficult mid-range Js

- Spurs no longer have the playmakers everywhere else to run a more successful, balanced style..Parker, Ginobili and Diaw don't have much left in the tank, Patty is a 5'10" SG, etc..

[Proxy]

- Kawhi plays a position that is notoriously tough to build around if you aren't a point-forward like Lebron or Larry Bird(even a generational talent like Durant has only been to 1 Finals)..he isn't a natural playmaker..

- Aldridge is not a playmaker and his style of play is centered around difficult mid-range Js

- Spurs no longer have the playmakers everywhere else to run a more successful, balanced style..Parker, Ginobili and Diaw don't have much left in the tank, Patty is a 5'10" SG, etc..

Yep, hit the nail on the head

even at the end of the game when Pop put Andre out there, I found myself relieved to see them throw the ball around to result in an easy layup, even if OKC had let up on D

[SouthernFried]

This year has been painful to watch. I'm not really into ISO ball.

Our "Beautiful Game" was centered around Ginobili and Duncan moving the ball around and playing smart, both were excellent passers. And Duncan was one of the most underrated screeners ever...the Pick n Roll with him was just beautiful.

I miss it sure...but, we got to see some of the best basketball ever produced in the NBA.

[HarlemHeat37]

^^ The most underrated part of the 2014 team was it's versatility..it was the deepest title team in NBA history, statistically, and the ability to run a variety of different looks made it very difficult for opposing coaches/players to keep up..

[gambit1990]

is that our offense for the next 4 years... fuck.
if tp is our starting pg for the next 4 years then probably.

[MaNu4Tres]

^^ The most underrated part of the 2014 team was it's versatility..it was the deepest title team in NBA history, statistically, and the ability to run a variety of different looks made it very difficult for opposing coaches/players to keep up..

I honestly thought Pop tried to utilize the 14' style offense many times this series. The problem was, most of the players who made that style effective all have regressed significantly skill-wise and athletically since 14'. Manu, Diaw, Mills, Duncan, Parker all couldn't react, cut, finish, shoot as well. Pop had no choice but to go to ISO/Hero ball at times. Time to find the new parts.

[gambit1990]

lma and kawhi have to iso so much because tony doesn't help us get easy baskets.

[timtonymanu]

The loss of Tiago and Beli (can't believe I'm typing that) changed the system to the inefficient 2 man system. Sure Tiago was done, but his passing game was underrated as hell.

[MaNu4Tres]

The loss of Tiago and Beli (can't believe I'm typing that) changed the system to the inefficient 2 man system. Sure Tiago was done, but his passing game was underrated as hell.

So much more to it. Manu, Diaw, Mills, Duncan were bigger parts than Splitter and Beli in 14' and all 4 have regressed in many phases since then.

[timtonymanu]

So much more to it. Manu, Diaw, Mills, Duncan were bigger parts than Splitter and Beli in 14' and all 4 have regressed in many phases since then.

Very true.

[Ginobili3]

I agree, shit was nauseating to watch. You can't constantly run that, but then again, what can you do when the rest of the team is playing like garbage.

[50Bestspurever]

4 down got us two rings.

[SAGirl]

I honestly thought Pop tried to utilize the 14' style offense many times this series. The problem was, most of the players who made that style effective all have regressed significantly skill-wise and athletically since 14'. Manu, Diaw, Mills, Duncan, Parker all couldn't react, cut, finish, shoot as well. Pop had no choice but to go to ISO/Hero ball at times. Time to find the new parts.
I thought the same. The core of that team was still here. The guys we let go (with the exception of Tiago bc of his PNR with Manu, but he got limited playoff minutes and he's been injured forever. He would not have played here) were not the core. Cojo didn't even fit in with that style thus he barely played in the playoffs, Baynes wasn't much of a part of it and Marco was such a defensive liability that despite his scoring punch you could not spare him. Nope we still have the core but they all aged, declined too much. Even Manu a decline had Mills making plays off the dribble too much where his strength was spotting up.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Can't play the beautiful game with 2016 Manu. He lost his playmaking sometime early in the season.

[DenialTwist]

You can't expect LaMarcus and Kawhi to play any other way if the Spurs don't have quick guards who can penetrate and break down the defense. Parker is too old to run the offense as a starter, Manu declined and Mills can't run point period. If they don't go after someone younger who can actually move the ball and get everyone else involved it will be more ISO.

[cariocaz]

A sad state of affairs.

[ElNono]

Hopefully that's a lesson learned, at least for the new guy LaMarcus. You can get your touches without having to go ISO every play.

[Spurs9]

:cry what happend to the ball movement in our 2014 run?

I guess LMA grinded our offense to a crawl. I'm not even upset with our loss last night, can't wait to see how the team is reconstructed for next season, hopefully being much younger and athletic. How much more cap will we gain this offseason?

[DJR210]

Spurs winning 67 games with offense like this goes to show how badly balanced the NBA is ATM

[K...]

Another goodbye bandwagon fan thread

:( I miss the passy games, .....become a gsw fan, easy peasy

[Pocho La Pantera]

That´s why Manu and Duncan will be missed.

[Boomersgold]

Really disappointed with the Spurs in the playoffs. At least in the regular season, you still had some semblance of ball movement. The playoffs were pretty much dump it down to LA or let Kawhi Iso from the top of the key/draw fouls. The offense went to shit.

[AFMadison]

Everyone just now realizing what I've been preaching since 2015 :lol

[-21-]

Another goodbye bandwagon fan thread

:( I miss the passy games, .....become a gsw fan, easy peasy

:lol OP has a point though. A huge part of why we lost was the offense going cold. When teams buckle down on the Kawhi/LMA isos and post ups, there's no one else to go to. Tony did a good job of stepping up vs OKC but we can't depend on him to do that consistently anymore. When you have ball movement, at the very least you'll continue to get good looks even when shots aren't falling. Though as some have already said, recreating The Beautiful Game is not easy when you don't have the right players for it.

[Kawhitstorm]

You can't expect LaMarcus and Kawhi to play any other way if the Spurs don't have quick guards who can penetrate and break down the defense. Parker is too old to run the offense as a starter, Manu declined and Mills can't run point period. If they don't go after someone younger who can actually move the ball and get everyone else involved it will be more ISO.

Since Kawhi can play small-ball PF, Softridge has to man up & play center like Bosh to allow a more up tempo offense. Kawhi is unstoppable when he grab the rebound & goes coast-to-coast like Gaymond.

Sign a big body like Mozgov to deal w/ OKC's bigs & a bamma like Biyambo who can protect the rim/cover PnRs.

[Pako]

Do you remember when we changed our playing style from Duncan ISO to the of passing and shooting threes? Everyone are skeptical at the start because it did not work right away. But that was the start of the Beautiful game as we know. It took time for us to master it and the peak was 2014. Now that our offense is changing, I still think that it will take more time to learn how to play around it. I know PATFO have a vision on how to make it work. We just don't have the enough personnel to execute it as of the moment. Given that LMA and KL only started to play together this year, I think we did a good job competing this year.
I am still confident that we will comeback strong next season.

[Keepin' it real]

I honestly thought Pop tried to utilize the 14' style offense many times this series. The problem was, most of the players who made that style effective all have regressed significantly skill-wise and athletically since 14'. Manu, Diaw, Mills, Duncan, Parker all couldn't react, cut, finish, shoot as well. Pop had no choice but to go to ISO/Hero ball at times. Time to find the new parts.

Exactly, people seem to forget Diaw and Mills sucked so badly this year after playing huge roles in 2014. The truth is if 2016 Diaw and Mills played on the 2014 team, there is NO WAY the Spurs would have won. That passing game only works when role players make shots. Otherwise, iso ball with your top players is the best plan.

[tholdren]

Exactly, people seem to forget Diaw and Mills sucked so badly this year after playing huge roles in 2014. The truth is if 2016 Diaw and Mills played on the 2014 team, there is NO WAY the Spurs would have won. That passing game only works when role players make shots. Otherwise, iso ball with your top players is the best plan.
LOL - Dumb

[TD 21]

Though I expect a good amount of roster turnover, unfortunately, it probably is, because of the absence of a dynamic, play making guard.

I don't see how they get that piece. Quality RFA's (Clarkson and Fournier, in this case) are almost never attainable. They probably have a slim chance with Conley and they don't have the assets for Teague. Unfortunately, the most likely outcome, is probably something like a Vasquez signing or a trade for Grant or Wright.

[therealtruth]

- Kawhi plays a position that is notoriously tough to build around if you aren't a point-forward like Lebron or Larry Bird(even a generational talent like Durant has only been to 1 Finals)..he isn't a natural playmaker..

- Aldridge is not a playmaker and his style of play is centered around difficult mid-range Js

- Spurs no longer have the playmakers everywhere else to run a more successful, balanced style..Parker, Ginobili and Diaw don't have much left in the tank, Patty is a 5'10" SG, etc..

Kawhi can learn. KD has gotten much better at it. Used to be strictly a shooter. Part of the transition to superstar player is that you don't only get your own basket you get baskets for everyone else.

[K...]

WE saw ball movement with this team against OKC and the puke crew passed up the good shots, clanked the ones they did , and lost the rebounds.

Beautiful game only works with shooters and drivers. WE had too much dead weight to play it.

[sasaint]

That´s why Manu and Duncan will be missed.

That and their leadership/locker room presence/Spurs culture mentoring. I do not see anybody on the current roster capable of supplying that level of leadership.

[daslicer]

WE saw ball movement with this team against OKC and the puke crew passed up the good shots, clanked the ones they did , and lost the rebounds.

Beautiful game only works with shooters and drivers. WE had too much dead weight to play it.

I find people's obsession with the beautiful game annoying. That to me was a once in a lifetime type of deal much like when the Lakers got on team fire in the '01 playoffs. It's like Manu basically said after the finals "We will probably never replicate this level of play again."

[still.focused]

Recency bias
Spurs won more chips without the "Beautiful Game" than they won with it
Nothing wrong with ISOs as long as you players dont force shots & bad possessions
Thats when it becomes heroball
LMA & Kawhi actually pass the ball wway too much, so I dont see that bein a problem

[AFMadison]

Recency bias
Spurs won more chips without the "Beautiful Game" than they won with it
Nothing wrong with ISOs as long as you players dont force shots & bad possessions
Thats when it becomes heroball
LMA & Kawhi actually pass the ball wway too much, so I dont see that bein a problem
When you run an ISO with zero off ball screens and zero player movement, more than likely there is going to be a forced contested shot. I've been critical of this years offense but I'm not saying we need motion offense, all I'm saying is that there is a way to have flow within an ISO heavy offense. This year, it was nonexistent. Not only does it not work but it kills team chemistry and makes other "role players" stand around on the 3 point line watching.

[Pocho La Pantera]

WE saw ball movement with this team against OKC and the puke crew passed up the good shots, clanked the ones they did , and lost the rebounds.

Beautiful game only works with shooters and drivers. WE had too much dead weight to play it. exactly

[tholdren]

:lol OP has a point though. A huge part of why we lost was the offense going cold. When teams buckle down on the Kawhi/LMA isos and post ups, there's no one else to go to. Tony did a good job of stepping up vs OKC but we can't depend on him to do that consistently anymore. When you have ball movement, at the very least you'll continue to get good looks even when shots aren't falling. Though as some have already said, recreating The Beautiful Game is not easy when you don't have the right players for it.
It wasn't that. It was the lack of any player or ball movement. KL/LM/Parker held the ball, everyone watched. Its the whole, spurs need a scorer thing... again.

[-21-]

It wasn't that. It was the lack of any player or ball movement. KL/LM/Parker held the ball, everyone watched. Its the whole, spurs need a scorer thing... again.
???
That's what I said. The isos need to go, it doesn't work when LMA/Kawhi are having off nights. The team should go back to the ball movement we saw from 2012-2015. At least that way all five guys on the floor can be involved in the offense instead of the two-man game we had this year.

[LakerHater]

it looks like it.
I think mainly cuz Aldridge is a bad passer.

[tholdren]

- Kawhi plays a position that is notoriously tough to build around if you aren't a point-forward like Lebron or Larry Bird(even a generational talent like Durant has only been to 1 Finals)..he isn't a natural playmaker..

- Aldridge is not a playmaker and his style of play is centered around difficult mid-range Js

- Spurs no longer have the playmakers everywhere else to run a more successful, balanced style..Parker, Ginobili and Diaw don't have much left in the tank, Patty is a 5'10" SG, etc..

obvious, but that is what is shocking about calling these players great, mvp, etc. They are so limited on playmaking, but have the tools to be great play makers.

your last point is a little off. Spurs need a slasher with the starters and with the bench, not "everywhere"

Additionally, it doesn't matter about patty's height. Either attack the rim or hit the three. He had open looks, but didnt put it in the hole.

Spurs played scared and don't like contact on either side of the ball. And for as "fundamental" as pop thinks he coaches, fundamentals were limited in the OKC series.

He and RC built a team around two jump shooters that can't get to the rim, wonder why they thought that would work?

[tholdren]

???
That's what I said. The isos need to go, it doesn't work when LMA/Kawhi are having off nights. The team should go back to the ball movement we saw from 2012-2015. At least that way all five guys on the floor can be involved in the offense instead of the two-man game we had this year.
i thought your point was ball movement, my point was we had no ball movement because players didnt move.

You can pass the shit out of the ball and everyone on offense can stand in the same place (think shell drill) that's "ball movement." And you can have players passing the ball then cutting, screening, etc. There were so many times that KL or LMA had the ball, hell even Tim, where Spurs turned into the audience. How could you expect the person with the ball to pass, when everyone knew they were going to shoot and just stood around, watching?

Again - that's a coachable moment. I don't need an all star to run off a screen or set a pick, or cut to the basket. I need someone who wants to compete and has that edge to know each moment is a oneVone play: whether beating your man to a ball, or running the screen the correct way. Spurs don't have that. They go through the motions, but don't really compete. A lot of that has to do with coaching. I know gregg wants to teach these players about life, that's great, but when was the last time you saw "hunger" from the spurs team. I didnt even see it out of manu this year. It's just basketball may need to go away.

[Holden_Caulfield]

lol fuck

[Gagnrath]

I think in retrospect that Leonard came into stardom a year earlier than expected and parker lost some effectiveness that the front office thought would still be there. There is no doubt that kahwi is a max player but there was still some when he was resigned, if he has been 1.5ppg and not finals MVP he would be making 5 to 7mill less a season right now and that money difference is quite a bit when you are looking to fill a roster. West ring chasing helped but he wasn't a position of need. LMA can play center but is more effective and happiest as a pf. For the first half the season the spurs were rough integrating LMA but parker played distribution and that was good. Afterwards I am not sure why but he became more looking to drive again.