Nate Duncan's OBJECT review of the season / OKC series (ethered Pop)

[Kawhitstorm]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon/2016/05/12/okc-ousts-the-spurs-in-game-6-skiles-resigns-por-offseason-cap-preview

[spursistan]

it started last season Clippers series, but more and more basketall nerds/watchers/insiders are waking up to his case and questioning the anointed coaching deity...

This by far his most embarrassingly coached series..

[TheGreatYacht]

That guy knows what he's talking about, tbh... It's only a matter of time until the national media wakes up and ethers this poor man's Bob Hill

[houston spurs fan]

Dude is close to 70. What happens at your companies when the execs reach this age? They retire and enjoy the good life. Why is coaching basketball any different?

[313]

Dude is close to 70. What happens at your companies when the execs reach this age? They retire and enjoy the good life. Why is coaching basketball any different?
Except Pop has had similar fuck ups before, 2006 for example, when he was still relatively young(er)

[K...]

Please indicate if you listen to the clip before posting.

I'm waiting for a non-emotional take down of pop. Haven't seen one yet

[Kawhitstorm]

Please indicate if you listen to the clip before posting.

I'm waiting for a non-emotional take down of pop. Haven't seen one yet

9 minute mark, that's all I got for you.

[DarrinS]

Please indicate if you listen to the clip before posting.

I'm waiting for a non-emotional take down of pop. Haven't seen one yet


I listened to it. Seemed like a very rational argument they were making.

[coachmac87]

Pop should've gone small a long time ago. It's the ultimate counter to when you're getting beat with size..I made a thread about it and it showed success in the 2nd half. But to Pops defense pretty much every game was competitive and with that its hard to truly make sound adjustments. Donovan getting blown out Game 1 was a blessing in disguise for them. Told him immediately things had to change.

Sometimes it is all about making shots or execution but a coaches job in EVERY sport is to put his players in the best place to succeed. That to me is his biggest weakness as a coach. For example asking 6'8-6'9 players to properly box out and muscle 7'0 260+ players for a rebound..that's a lot to ask of players..especially 30+yr olds. Or asking your bench to score running a dribble hand off with players who can't penetrate.

[UZER]

I started a thead about it but nobody replied.

In pops mind, he did go small. But his version of small is not a big sized 3 like Kawhi at 4. It's two/too small 4s playing 4 and 5. :lol

[TheGoldStandard]

It's not the first time that Pop has screwed up and it won't be the last time but absolutely nobody will light his ass up with follow up questions or write pieces about it locally to any level that it will matter. Next year the media will hype him up as being this great coach when the only great thing he did was sit on a bench that had Tim Duncan on it.

[spursmvp]

What's the point of going small when patty and slowmo can't throw it in the ocean? You actually need decent guards to go small. Steph, klay, lillard and cj aren't walking through those doors. We live and die with tony tissot.

[daslicer]

I started a thead about it but nobody replied.

In pops mind, he did go small. But his version of small is not a big sized 3 like Kawhi at 4. It's two/too small 4s playing 4 and 5. :lol

I don't think the spurs even have the personnel to field an effective small ball lineup. What lineup could they have gone with Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Lma? Mills,Parker,Green,Manu,Kawhi? Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Diaw? Look at the Warriors small ball line up of Livingston,Curry,Klay,Barnes,Green or Curry,Andre,Klay,Barnes,Greens. Compare the Warriors small ball lineups to the Spurs and you will see a vast difference in speed,athleticism,3 point shooting. For small ball to be effective you have to have great shooting,speed, athleticism to combat physically a bigger opponent. The Spurs don't have any of that with their small ball lineups.

[K...]

I listened, they said "pop got out coached" but then backpedaled saying okc played great.

Small ball is a hypothetical. All of guards sucked, so I don't see why you'd reward them. Starting leonard at the 4 moves him off Durant.

Great podcast though, but most of what they say I've read here. They suck off pop at the end per par

[tholdren]

argument - spurs missed wide open shots, spurs lack of athleticism led to rushed shots. - WRONG

negating thunder second chance pts - WRONG

the beautiful game doesn't work - WRONG

[DPG21920]

731014363553759232

[tholdren]

731014363553759232
Uncertain why it matters

[DMC]

Saying "we don't know X's and O's like Pop or how to freeze a PnR" then following that with "but it might work to..." is just folly. You don't have a good idea just because it wasn't proven to be a bad one.

[DMC]

argument - spurs missed wide open shots, spurs lack of athleticism led to rushed shots. - WRONG

negating thunder second chance pts - WRONG

the beautiful game doesn't work - WRONG

Tony Parker being older has anything to do with loss of the beautiful game - WRONG

[UZER]

I don't think the spurs even have the personnel to field an effective small ball lineup. What lineup could they have gone with Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Lma? Mills,Parker,Green,Manu,Kawhi? Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Diaw? Look at the Warriors small ball line up of Livingston,Curry,Klay,Barnes,Green or Curry,Andre,Klay,Barnes,Greens. Compare the Warriors small ball lineups to the Spurs and you will see a vast difference in speed,athleticism,3 point shooting. For small ball to be effective you have to have great shooting,speed, athleticism to combat physically a bigger opponent. The Spurs don't have any of that with their small ball lineups.

So since we don't have the personnel to go small, let's continue to go small anyway with the Diaw/West combo that was absolutely shite from day one.

[daslicer]

So since we don't have the personnel to go small, let's continue to go small anyway with the Diaw/West combo that was absolutely shite from day one.

It was just unfortunately a bad match up. I don't think there was really a clear cut solution to deal with lack of size against the thunder's bigs. Had Duncan not declined the way he did this year the Spurs probably would have had enough to keep Adam and Kanter off the boards. Duncan's decline had huge ripples in this series.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I don't think the spurs even have the personnel to field an effective small ball lineup. What lineup could they have gone with Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Lma? Mills,Parker,Green,Manu,Kawhi? Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Diaw? Look at the Warriors small ball line up of Livingston,Curry,Klay,Barnes,Green or Curry,Andre,Klay,Barnes,Greens. Compare the Warriors small ball lineups to the Spurs and you will see a vast difference in speed,athleticism,3 point shooting. For small ball to be effective you have to have great shooting,speed, athleticism to combat physically a bigger opponent. The Spurs don't have any of that with their small ball lineups.

Many people already realized that for some time.

Unfortuntely, Pop is too stubborn to acknowledge that fact.

[Snaq O'Meal]

It was just unfortunately a bad match up. I don't think there was really a clear cut solution to deal with lack of size against the thunder's bigs. Had Duncan not declined the way he did this year the Spurs probably would have had enough to keep Adam and Kanter off the boards. Duncan's decline had huge ripples in this series.

Pop had a whole season to figure that out after OKC bludgeoned his Turd Towers in the first meeting. And since Pop clearly wanted to settle for the 2nd seed in the playoffs, he knows what's coming. That lack of preparation is inexcusable.

[daslicer]

Many people already realized that for some time.

Unfortuntely, Pop is too stubborn to acknowledge that fact.

It's evident that there are still many people on this forum that don't realize it since they keep on screaming Pop should have played small ball in this series. Heading into this season Pop wanted to try for one last time to win with the old vets he had. I think RC and him will gut this team and start rebuilding this off-season much like they did in the summer of '01 after getting swept by the Lakers.

[sasaint]

I started a thead about it but nobody replied.

In pops mind, he did go small. But his version of small is not a big sized 3 like Kawhi at 4. It's two/too small 4s playing 4 and 5. :lol

TRUE! :lmao

[Snaq O'Meal]

It's evident that there are still many people on this forum that don't realize it since they keep on screaming Pop should have played small ball in this series. Heading into this season Pop wanted to try for one last time to win with the old vets he had. I think RC and him will gut this team and start rebuilding this off-season much like they did in the summer of '01 after getting swept by the Lakers.

I hope so. Standing pat and not taking the necessary risks won't get the team all the way to the championship.

[daslicer]

Pop had a whole season to figure that out after OKC bludgeoned his Turd Towers in the first meeting. And since Pop clearly wanted to settle for the 2nd seed in the playoffs, he knows what's coming. That lack of preparation is inexcusable.

I feel your pain I hated the original turd towers of Blair and Bonner. You can definitely blame Pop and RC for not making the right moves to have another solid big on the roster but there's not much you can blame for his coaching in this series. He could have played Boban, Martin, more but it's not guaranteed the spurs win this series even if those guys play.

[sasaint]

I don't think the spurs even have the personnel to field an effective small ball lineup. What lineup could they have gone with Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Lma? Mills,Parker,Green,Manu,Kawhi? Parker,Manu,Green,Kawhi,Diaw? Look at the Warriors small ball line up of Livingston,Curry,Klay,Barnes,Green or Curry,Andre,Klay,Barnes,Greens. Compare the Warriors small ball lineups to the Spurs and you will see a vast difference in speed,athleticism,3 point shooting. For small ball to be effective you have to have great shooting,speed, athleticism to combat physically a bigger opponent. The Spurs don't have any of that with their small ball lineups.

With Tim and to a lesser extent Manu, we have been getting away with mortgaging our future for a decade. We have been getting by with filling in our "built not bought" teams with cheap ring-chasing veterans and a few long-shots like Danny and Patty rather than signing more significant FAs (until LMA) or drafting guys who we might actually sign and develop. Tbh, the Spurs' vaunted player-development pipeline always seemed more like a pipe-dream to me. Since drafting Tony and Manu the Spurs have drafted Tiago and George Hill (who "became" Kawhi) and a bunch of guys who have become journeymen in the league. The cupboard now seems quite bare with nobody in sight to replace Tim or Manu.

[tholdren]

I feel your pain I hated the original turd towers of Blair and Bonner. You can definitely blame Pop and RC for not making the right moves to have another solid big on the roster but there's not much you can blame for his coaching in this series. He could have played Boban, Martin, more but it's not guaranteed the spurs win this series even if those guys play.
no but we all could have guaranteed that playing west and kyle anderson would = spurs loss

[Snaq O'Meal]

With Tim and to a lesser extent Manu, we have been getting away with mortgaging our future for a decade. We have been getting by with filling in our "built not bought" teams with cheap ring-chasing veterans and a few long-shots like Danny and Patty rather than signing more significant FAs (until LMA) or drafting guys who we might actually sign and develop. Tbh, the Spurs' vaunted player-development pipeline always seemed more like a pipe-dream to me. Since drafting Tony and Manu the Spurs have drafted Tiago and George Hill (who "became" Kawhi) and a bunch of guys who have become journeymen in the league. The cupboard now seems quite bare with nobody in sight to replace Tim or Manu.

Luck played a huge part in the drafting of Ginobili. The Spurs actually passed on him in the first round by picking Gordan Giricek instead.

But the drafting of Parker was largely due to Sam Presti's hard work.

[therealtruth]

no but we all could have guaranteed that playing west and kyle anderson would = spurs loss

Yeah it's like in '11 when everyone but Pop saw the Spurs were too small and would need Tiago.

[DMC]

With Tim and to a lesser extent Manu, we have been getting away with mortgaging our future for a decade. We have been getting by with filling in our "built not bought" teams with cheap ring-chasing veterans and a few long-shots like Danny and Patty rather than signing more significant FAs (until LMA) or drafting guys who we might actually sign and develop. Tbh, the Spurs' vaunted player-development pipeline always seemed more like a pipe-dream to me. Since drafting Tony and Manu the Spurs have drafted Tiago and George Hill (who "became" Kawhi) and a bunch of guys who have become journeymen in the league. The cupboard now seems quite bare with nobody in sight to replace Tim or Manu.
Two HOFers, one a top 10 all time player and the other one of the greatest foreign stars to ever play in the NBA. No, you're not going to replace them, ever. If you had the 1st overall pick for the past 5 years you'd have a team of 1st overall picks, and a team not as good as the current Spurs team. How can you then replace Tim and Manu?

[Prose]

agreed with most of the points about pop

[K...]

Tbh, the Spurs' vaunted player-development pipeline always seemed more like a pipe-dream to me. Since drafting Tony and Manu the Spurs have drafted Tiago and George Hill (who "became" Kawhi) and a bunch of guys who have become journeymen in the league. The cupboard now seems quite bare with nobody in sight to replace Tim or Manu.

THe player development pipeline works well it just doesn't do miracles. Kahwi is a once in a generation guy but benefited greatly from it, patyy and cojo are useful and came from outside the lottery.

Anytime you get a player outside the lottery playing meaningful minutes you have a Front office win.

Are we going to win the championship with Cojo's ? No, we'll need trades, FA's, or a tank rebuild. No miracles but the development is best in the league, probly best in all basketball.








PS Manu was the biggest part of player development for those stupid undersized guards. THat part of the vaunted system is dead. But it's not like Tim or PArker did any great mentoring.

[Sean Cagney]

731014363553759232

Yeah, mainly because of the game one blowout though. The rest of the series was so tight it could have went either way besides game 6 of course. Game one threw that total off a bit though, made it seem the Spurs outplayed them in a series by scoring more points but that is not the whole story.

[Slippy]

I started a thead about it but nobody replied.

In pops mind, he did go small. But his version of small is not a big sized 3 like Kawhi at 4. It's two/too small 4s playing 4 and 5. :lol

This is true but he also went with tim who was just a shell of his former self all series . Point is he went with these guys out of loyalty .Probably figured this would be their last run together .