Kawhi hate is ridiculous, what about LMA?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?

[BatManu20]

He was our entire team for long stretches of the first two games tbh. We wasted an efficient 41-pt performance by him. Not going to solely put blame LMA, despite his poor performance in Game 6, particularly in the 4th. It was a collective effort of players not playing well enough, from our stars to our role players.

[timtonymanu]

Agree with ruff. LMA disappeared in Game 5. I don't care if he scored 40 points the first two games. He missed two crucial shots in Game 5 down the stretch. He couldn't be counted on when the pressure was on the Spurs. LMA is the type of player to also keep his head down when he's struggling.

The Spurs essentially killed their offense to accommodate his. It's the truth.

[thispego]

Rough. Ready. Up the butt. Oz Style.

:lmao

[YGWHI]

He was our entire team for long stretches of the first two games tbh.
No. Just in game 2.

In game 1 Kawhi scored 25 points in 20 minutes, Danny was 5-6 on 3's, Tim looked decent most minutes...he wasn't our entire team.

[Kawhitstorm]

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

LMA is a 3rd option, it's not his fault that Pop made him the focal point of the offense. If Chris Paul was the point guard then he would be getting easy buckets rather than trying to score against double teams (that how they stopped him in the post after Gm 2). Running your offense through LMA would be the equivalent of the Cavs making Love their primary scoring option, fortunately they have Kyrie.

Kawhi also has to be the ball handler during crunch time instead of leaving it up to Porker who's going to run PnRs instead of giving the rock to the best player on the team w/ enough time on the shot-clock.:rolleyes

[TheGreatYacht]

Kiwitards are pathetic. Always wanting to deflect the hate on to other players

[spursgu]

Kiwitards are pathetic. Always wanting to deflect the hate on to other players

Says the Tony Parker homer

[LakerHater]

For me, there was no hate. jus dissapointment on how they dissappeared in the 4th & How LMA declined game by game!
If anything, I hated that, not them!

Lookin foward to big futures in Black & Silver from them! :flag:

[Brian Windhorst]

Aldridge had a bunch of good shots that he just missed. Can't really say much about that. Further, for the last 3 games the Thunder essentially double teamed him every time he touched the ball with Duncan or West's man. At that point it's up to the rest of the team to exploit it. That, and it's not on him to get himself the ball in good position in the fourth. Sure he can call for it, but we just straight up stopped going to him at times and relied on the wrong people.

Leonard, on the other hand, just forced bad shots for the entire series. It was obvious by game 2 that Roberson's and Durant's length bothered him in the post, yet when they took away that one move he never responded by going to the rim more or working out of the screen and roll. His offense was great all season, but this series demonstrated precisely why people facepalmed when Pop said they wanted him to model his game after Barkley or old Kobe. They worked for 2 years on making him great at the turnaround postup fadeaway jumper, but the bottom line is unless you are MJ or Kobe, there are defenders capable of taking that away. They took away his one move and he had nothing else, yet for games 5 & 6 he largely defended inferior offensive players so he could save energy to waste possessions on the other end with ugly, unforced low percentage shots.

[K...]

This is an oddly time thread. The hate was one or two days after the loss.


If any one needs to be called out its the POP hate assholes. Pop is untouchable . Basketball Pope.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi also has to be the ball handler during crunch time instead of leaving it up to Porker who's going to run PnRs instead of giving the rock to the best player on the team w/ enough time on the shot-clock.:rolleyes

When people say Kawhi can't run the pick and rolls with LMA, I tell them they should watch the Spurs-Raptors game in SA.

Why Pop called that play to close game 5? He has been horrible in his late-game decisions, sticking with Parker in those crucial minutes shows it.

[YGWHI]

Leonard, on the other hand, just forced bad shots for the entire series.
This isn't true, and you know that.

He didn't settle for jumps during the entire series, Kawhi was driving to the hoop in the series more than he did in the whole regular season. And he looked really good at it, that was one of his biggest improvements. Sadly, he didn't get enough calls.


They took away his one move and he had nothing else
:lol
A player who was 80th percentile or better in most categories this year, a so versatile scorer but...he has just one move.

[Mikeanaro]

I dont hate him but Im disappointed, last season he was autistic and now does the same thing again, LMA is in his first season here and had 2 awesome games so trying to blame LMA for the outcome is retarded.
Kiwi is 24 years old, when the thunder beat SAS in 2013 Durbeta was 23 and no Duncan Gino and all those players helping him, yes they won because it was a ref job but he was a much better offensive player than Kiwi is now.
Was so complex about driving and shooting?

[DarrinS]

Neither deserves hate, tbh. LMA obviously doesn't like to bang around too much, but he's a solid pick and pop player.

[Spurs_619]

Kiwitards are pathetic. Always wanting to deflect the hate on to other players

Aren't you the same poster who hated on Kawhi all year for the clips series where LMA essentially did the same thing good first couple games then horrible the last few?

[Spurs_619]

Aldridge had a bunch of good shots that he just missed. Can't really say much about that. Further, for the last 3 games the Thunder essentially double teamed him every time he touched the ball with Duncan or West's man. At that point it's up to the rest of the team to exploit it. That, and it's not on him to get himself the ball in good position in the fourth. Sure he can call for it, but we just straight up stopped going to him at times and relied on the wrong people.

Leonard, on the other hand, just forced bad shots for the entire series. It was obvious by game 2 that Roberson's and Durant's length bothered him in the post, yet when they took away that one move he never responded by going to the rim more or working out of the screen and roll. His offense was great all season, but this series demonstrated precisely why people facepalmed when Pop said they wanted him to model his game after Barkley or old Kobe. They worked for 2 years on making him great at the turnaround postup fadeaway jumper, but the bottom line is unless you are MJ or Kobe, there are defenders capable of taking that away. They took away his one move and he had nothing else, yet for games 5 & 6 he largely defended inferior offensive players so he could save energy to waste possessions on the other end with ugly, unforced low percentage shots.

Except his overall % for the series was fine way more efficient then LMA or westbrook. Do you even look at the stats or watch the games or do you just run with narratives.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kawhi haters - go find another team, seriously. He is the best perimeter defender in the NBA, and may end up the best the game has ever seen. His offense is not perfect, but he has become a smooth 20pt scorer who can drive, shoot, post, and score off garbage from broken plays. He's a devastating second option. Now we need to find a primary guy, and I'm concerned LMA is not the one we need.


LMA is a 3rd option, it's not his fault that Pop made him the focal point of the offense. If Chris Paul was the point guard then he would be getting easy buckets rather than trying to score against double teams (that how they stopped him in the post after Gm 2). Running your offense through LMA would be the equivalent of the Cavs making Love their primary scoring option, fortunately they have Kyrie.

Kawhi also has to be the ball handler during crunch time instead of leaving it up to Porker who's going to run PnRs instead of giving the rock to the best player on the team w/ enough time on the shot-clock.:rolleyes

He was the primary option for years in Portland. Your KLove analogy is apt though. I think LMA'd be a perfect second option - it's just a pity that Kawhi is also better as a second option, just like Scottie Pippen was. Kawhi is basically a Pippen clone with less play-making but better shooting.

As for your other point about Parker, I totally agree. I couldn't believe it when Parker took bad shots on every possession in the final minute of game 5 while Kawhi never saw the ball. It was fucking ridiculous. On one of those plays Kawhi was WIDE OPEN on the wing and could have shot a wide open 3 or driven for a better shot. We were down 2 at the time. Atrociously nonsenscial.


When people say Kawhi can't run the pick and rolls with LMA, I tell them they should watch the Spurs-Raptors game in SA.

Why Pop called that play to close game 5? He has been horrible in his late-game decisions, sticking with Parker in those crucial minutes shows it.

See my comment above.


Neither deserves hate, tbh. LMA obviously doesn't like to bang around too much, but he's a solid pick and pop player.

I'm not hating on LMA, I just don't like relying on a pick and pop softie to win big games.

He's clearly a nice guy, a good teammate and an elite player, but I think he's a terrible fit with Kawhi, and I'd like to see him traded for a true alpha dog if possible... although that probably isn't possible, and not a Spursian thing to do. So we need to learn to use him better, or he needs to adjust his game.

[tholdren]

Jump shooting teams don't win. The biggest asterisk should have went to GSW last year who did not beat anyone at full strength.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Jump shooting teams don't win. The biggest asterisk should have went to GSW last year who did not beat anyone at full strength.

Writing off the Dubs already? They'll win that series in 7 of the best games we'll ever see.

In general, I agree with you though. Relying on jumpers to win big games is fool's gold... unless you have two of the purest shooters in NBA history, that is. ;)

[Brian Windhorst]

Except his overall % for the series was fine way more efficient then LMA or westbrook. Do you even look at the stats or watch the games or do you just run with narratives.

Never said anything about his percentages. He probably could've shot 75% had he not thrown up 5-7 fade aways per game.

[Brian Windhorst]

This isn't true, and you know that.

He didn't settle for jumps during the entire series, Kawhi was driving to the hoop in the series more than he did in the whole regular season. And he looked really good at it, that was one of his biggest improvements. Sadly, he didn't get enough calls.


:lol
A player who was 80th percentile or better in most categories this year, a so versatile scorer but...he has just one move.

If you consider dribbling to the paint, stopping, and shooting a fade away "driving to the hoop", sure. I don't. When he actually drove to the hoop he had a lot of success, but his post play was horrendous and he forced it way too much.

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi is a first team nba player this year. Aldridge is not. So I cam see why theres hate. Kawhi is just a different tier of player so a lot of casuals would put the burden on him when the team loses.

Aldridge is a third tier star that no one really gives a shit about. Hes in the same category as Klay thompson. They usually have very little critics because they are not exactly tier 1 playera in the nba.

They're not even in the same breath of caliber players. Kawhi is a first teamer in a season where Durant the best scorer I have ever seen and a top 5 player of all time in James.

Put that into perspective op..

To put it shortly, the media doesnt give a fuck about third tier stars like Aldridge.

[tholdren]

Writing off the Dubs already? They'll win that series in 7 of the best games we'll ever see.

In general, I agree with you though. Relying on jumpers to win big games is fool's gold... unless you have two of the purest shooters in NBA history, that is. ;)
I agree that those two are 2 legit 2 quit, but if Westbrook plays like he did last night, it won't matter. Durant shot 10 for 30 (he missed 20 shots) and had 5 TOs. Thunder still won by 6. Thunder went to the line 15 more times. Its about points and pace. People downplay momentum because you can't quantify it. These are the same retards that believe in advanced stats but never played basketball. It will be interesting to see if Kerr makes it a point to take better shots, play a little more lax on defense to get the transition game going, etc. Time to see if Kerr is a coach or a Pop

[YGWHI]

I think LMA'd be a perfect second option - it's just a pity that Kawhi is also better as a second option
I don't find it that bad. Kawhi and LMA work like 1a-1b interchangeable duo.

Not having a true/conventional #1 option isn't a big issue when a team has two guys who can score +22 pts most games. The real problem for Spurs is depth now.

[YGWHI]

When he actually drove to the hoop he had a lot of success

WTF? No, he didn't. He has just "ONE move"

[tholdren]

I don't find it that bad. Kawhi and LMA work like 1a-1b interchangeable duo.

Not having a true/conventional #1 option isn't a big issue when a team has two guys who can score +22 pts most games. The real problem for Spurs is depth now.

Yes it is. The spurs need to have a player they can count on to score - those 2 are good scorers, but cannot be counted on = not good for spurs.

[coachmac87]

Honestly what did people expect from these 2? They did their part..Pop and the bench failed the Spurs not Kawhi or LMA...

This series was really close..call here or there or made shot or free throw could've changed the series. Spurs aren't that far off IMO.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I agree that those two are 2 legit 2 quit, but if Westbrook plays like he did last night, it won't matter. Durant shot 10 for 30 (he missed 20 shots) and had 5 TOs. Thunder still won by 6. Thunder went to the line 15 more times. Its about points and pace. People downplay momentum because you can't quantify it. These are the same retards that believe in advanced stats but never played basketball. It will be interesting to see if Kerr makes it a point to take better shots, play a little more lax on defense to get the transition game going, etc. Time to see if Kerr is a coach or a Pop

Yes, OKC's momentum is huge right now. But I think the Dubs just got the shock they needed, and they'll be a different team from here on in. They were fucking around last night, especially in the 3rd, and it cost them, but they won't make that mistake again.

Don't forget that Westbrook hit ridiculous BS in the 3rd to get OKC back in the game. He won't hit 3 3s in a few minutes again this series. He's such a frustrating player to watch though - hits so many bad shots! But you can't rely on that to win this series.

It'll be fascinating, whatever happens. :)

[YGWHI]

Yes it is. The spurs need to have a player they can count on to score - those 2 are good scorers, but cannot be counted on = not good for spurs.
This was their first season together and Kawhi's just 24. I'll count on them to score next seasons.

Also, the Spurs lost against an Iso-team with two main guys who aren't that reliable but their role players made the difference.

[tholdren]

Yes, OKC's momentum is huge right now. But I think the Dubs just got the shock they needed, and they'll be a different team from here on in. They were fucking around last night, especially in the 3rd, and it cost them, but they won't make that mistake again.

Don't forget that Westbrook hit ridiculous BS in the 3rd to get OKC back in the game. He won't hit 3 3s in a few minutes again this series. He's such a frustrating player to watch though - hits so many bad shots! But you can't rely on that to win this series.

It'll be fascinating, whatever happens. :)
You mean like Curry, his bank 3s, and his typically terrible contested shots?

[tholdren]

This was their first season together and Kawhi's just 24. I'll count on them to score next seasons.

Also, the Spurs lost against an Iso-team with two main guys who aren't that reliable but their role players made the difference.
go look at the FTAs

[YGWHI]

go look at the FTAs
Well, their role players and refs calls made the difference.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Honestly what did people expect from these 2? They did their part..Pop and the bench failed the Spurs not Kawhi or LMA...

This series was really close..call here or there or made shot or free throw could've changed the series. Spurs aren't that far off IMO.

Very true, and it seems most people are ignoring this. We lost the series on 2 poor 2 minute stretches to end games 2 and 5, that's it. And in those stretches the Thunder got every fortuitous bounce of the ball and lucky call. Our bench was inexplicably terrible (where was the ball movement? the energy? the pace?), and we still almost won the series. We've got a great foundation to build off, even though this off-season will be tricky.

Still, I don't think LMA is what we need next to Kawhi. Hopefully next year he'll adjust his game to allow for more ball movement, become a bit tougher, and prove me wrong.

[tholdren]

Well, their role players and refs calls made the difference.
no - them out rebounding and out FTA spurs did it

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You mean like Curry, his bank 3s, and his typically terrible contested shots?

Curry's shots may look awful by conventional standards, but boy do they go in a high % of the time (3590 shots at 44.4%). He's a freak of nature. Can't compare that to Westbrook's ridiculously high number of 3pt shots when he's a career 30% 3pt shooter (1675 shots at 0.302 - this season he shot 341 at .296).

Sorry, your comparison holds no water.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This was their first season together and Kawhi's just 24. I'll count on them to score next seasons.

Also, the Spurs lost against an Iso-team with two main guys who aren't that reliable but their role players made the difference.

Yup. Adams, Kanter, Ibaka, Roberson, even Waiters all stepped up and out-played our role players.

[Kawhitstorm]

When people say Kawhi can't run the pick and rolls with LMA, I tell them they should watch the Spurs-Raptors game in SA.

Why Pop called that play to close game 5? He has been horrible in his late-game decisions, sticking with Parker in those crucial minutes shows it.

http://i.imgbox.com/hHooCE9u.gif

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Also, go back and watch the last 5 minutes of game 5. Kawhi was superb. He's the guy who got us up by 6, only to lose the lead on a Westbrook long jumper, that coast-to-coast by Westy when everyone stopped, and 2 offensive boards leading to layups by Adams and Kanter. Then LMA misses 2 wide open bunnies, Parker misses 2 hero ball shots (and a FT) when he should've been going to Kawhi, then Danny gets called for BS when Adams trips him into Durant's legs.

How anyone can blame all of that bullshit on Kawhi is beyond me. :rolleyes

PS Seriously, go back and watch it - yet another of those games where everything went against us at the absolutely worst time. Unfortunately the Spurs have a lot of games like this in their history: 2004 0.4s, 2006 Manu foul, 2012 games 5 and 6 against OKC, 2013 game 6 (the worst of all bad luck games) and even game 7, now games 2 and 5 2016.

PPS These ones don't hurt so much because there's no way we were beating the Dubs.

[SAGirl]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?
I think the Kawhi haters are trolls, player fans, maybe a few guys are peeved at Apalisoc. Personally I love the guy. I love all our players. A few get on my nerves sometimes but we wouldn't have even been here if not for Kawhi. I am not into hate shtick crews. Don't et it get to you. Personally I don't think that was LMA either. Really to me the decline of the big 3 was a factor and the rest of the guys didn't show up, but even with all of our bench problems it wasn't even like we were being blown out, our big got manhandled and LMA offensively was getting doubled off Tim, and defensively the boxing out was a bear.

The doubling off Tim meant he had to settle for jumpers, as soon as he made a move to the basket Adams showed. Tim being so off really made it difficult for LMA to get other shots at the basket. I can't hate on him. It was a team defeat if we must be Spursy.

[BackHome]

People don't understand the fuck it is a team sport not one person is going to take you to the promise land. Just look at the DUBS if not for Kanter and Adams no way are they fighting against GS to have a chance at a ring. We only got Kawhi and LMA which most teams would give your left nut for one and both nuts for both of them that is if you had nuts (Kahwi Haters). Let our old champions retire get some fresh blood and we are right back in it..:) Go Spurs!!

[SAGirl]

People don't understand the fuck it is a team sport not one person is going to take you to the promise land. Just look at the DUBS if not for Kanter and Adams no way are they fighting against GS to have a chance at a ring. We only got Kawhi and LMA which most teams would give your left nut for one and both nuts for both of them that is if you had nuts (Kahwi Haters). Let our old champions retire get some fresh blood and we are right back in it..:) Go Spurs!!
Totally! A lot of sour and bitter fans pointing the finger at each other. If anything it wasn't just one guy.

[K...]

Has the straw man been beat to death yet? Some of us are more compassionate towards rhetorical arguments, but if it must be done do it cleanly.

The analysis of Kawhi has been focused on whether he has the tools to lead this team. No one is calling him a role player. Jeez.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Has the straw man been beat to death yet? Some of us are more compassionate towards rhetorical arguments, but if it must be done do it cleanly.

The analysis of Kawhi has been focused on whether he has the tools to lead this team. No one is calling him a role player. Jeez.

Go back and watch the last 5 minutes of game 5. Kawhi was superb - steals, big buckets, led the team superbly before TP inexplicably took over and fucked it up.

Kawhi's the guy who got us up by 6, only to lose the lead on a Westbrook long jumper, that coast-to-coast by Westy when everyone stopped, and 2 offensive boards leading to layups by Adams and Kanter. Then LMA misses 2 wide open bunnies, Parker misses 2 hero ball shots (and a FT) when he should've been going to Kawhi, then Danny gets called for BS when Adams trips him into Durant's legs. Kawhi was no doubt shrugging his shoulders and thinking "WHY THE FUCK AREN'T THEY GETTING THE BALL TO ME???"

How anyone can blame all of that bullshit on Kawhi is beyond me.

And if we win game 5 there's a good chance we're playing the Dubs right now.

[YGWHI]

No one is calling him a role player.
No one, except you.

[kaji157]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?

LMA has been here for less than a whole year, while Kawhi has been here for a longer tenure, and has failed against easier match ups over an over again. He is becoming Mr. Unreliable on his own way.
You are Unreliable if you are a top 10 player in the game and fail to impose your will against A) Matt Barnes, B) Robertson. Also was a no show against OKC in 2012, but i give him a pass there.

As of now, in our first series without any of the big 3 being big contributors, the only player that showed that can draw double teams is Aldridge. And he had a much tougher matchup.

[YGWHI]

You are Unreliable if you are a top 10 player in the game and fail to impose your will against A) Matt Barnes, B) Robertson.
Fail? Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting % than Westbrook in less minutes and shots.


-Westbrook: 25/6/10/2 ( 23.5 FGA 27 TOs / FG: 37% / TS: 47%)
-Kawhi: 23/7/3/2 (18.5 FGA 12 TOs / FG: 48% / TS: 55%)


Do you want that Kawhi scores +25 ppg in playoffs? Give him more minutes/touches and we'll see.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

LMA has been here for less than a whole year, while Kawhi has been here for a longer tenure, and has failed against easier match ups over an over again. He is becoming Mr. Unreliable on his own way.
You are Unreliable if you are a top 10 player in the game and fail to impose your will against A) Matt Barnes, B) Robertson. Also was a no show against OKC in 2012, but i give him a pass there.

As of now, in our first series without any of the big 3 being big contributors, the only player that showed that can draw double teams is Aldridge. And he had a much tougher matchup.

Did you even watch the series? Your comments say no.

Kawhi was absolutely not the reason we lost. As I say, go back and watch the end of game 5 and tell me any of that is Kawhi's fault.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Fail? Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting % than Westbrook in less minutes and shots.

Do you want that Kawhi scores +25 ppg in playoffs? Give him more minutes/touches and we'll see.

Exactly! 23/7/3/2 at 48% is failure?!? :lmao

2 steals in the last 4 minutes of game 5 is failure??? :lmao

How about 4 missed jumpshots from LMA and TP in last 4 mins of game 5 while Kawhi needed the ball. That's failure.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

it's pretty clear that half the posters here turned off game 5 with 6 to go. Kawhi was huge in that 4th quarter when everyone else, particularly LMA and TP, choked the game away. Kawhi kept us in that damned game.

[Sean Cagney]

no - them out rebounding and out FTA spurs did it

That is the truth, plus the brick fest the Spurs laid in the 4th Q's of games 4 and 5, not to mention the start of game 6 which was sad to watch. They did themselves NO favors at all in that series.

[kaji157]

Fail? Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting % than Westbrook in less minutes and shots.




Do you want that Kawhi scores +25 ppg in playoffs? Give him more minutes/touches and we'll see.

Really, Westbrook went against Kauai and Green on defense. Robertsonthe is better than bothof on defense?
I don't see the argument you just make mine better. Wb had great defenders on him and still played great, Kawhi played good against no one, we needed extraordinary against Robertson.

[kaji157]

Did you even watch the series? Your comments say no.

Kawhi was absolutely not the reason we lost. As I say, go back and watch the end of game 5 and tell me any of that is Kawhi's fault.

Didnt demand the ball. He let tony and lma decide that game. Manu, Tim and even tony would have demanded to close out the game.

You think pop is a bad coach?

If he gave the last possessions to tony and Lewis because he saw them wanting it. I laugh at those that think pop don't look at their players. There is a reason while Kauai didn't had the ball in his hands.

He'll grow. But for me, he had the easiest matchup and he didn't deliver great, he delivered good, not enough. The big 3 succeeded because when any of them had a good matchup they torched it.

[Kawhitstorm]

If he gave the last possessions to tony and Lewis because he saw them wanting it.

I stopped reading at Lewis:sleep

[SD126]

Didnt demand the ball. He let tony and lma decide that game. Manu, Tim and even tony would have demanded to close out the game.

You think pop is a bad coach?

If he gave the last possessions to tony and Lewis because he saw them wanting it. I laugh at those that think pop don't look at their players. There is a reason while Kauai didn't had the ball in his hands.

He'll grow. But for me, he had the easiest matchup and he didn't deliver great, he delivered good, not enough. The big 3 succeeded because when any of them had a good matchup they torched it.

Who's Lewis???

[therealtruth]

He's got to work on a goto move.

[Slippy]

Yup. Adams, Kanter, Ibaka, Roberson, even Waiters all stepped up and out-played our role players.

This quote answers your Q really. Adams , Kanter aand Ibaka stepped up . That's 3 key bigs/ role players stepping up. Who out of the Spurs Bigs stepped up?. None!

The main role playing BIGs (Tim and DWest) couldn't finish an open or close basket when trying to respond to OKC doubling LA.

On D Tim was a traffic cone and Dwest played to his height. not exactly complimentary to LA whos main strength is team D and rebounding.

the same logic that applies to Kawai about having to work too hard on both ends really should be LA's excuse as well

[kaji157]

Who's Lewis???

LaMarcus, sorry, auto text.

[kaji157]

I stopped reading at Lewis:sleep

Yeah, i mean LA, it´s the autotext, anyways, i dont get the overreaction by kawhi player fans suh as yourself.

I am going to be clear on this matter.

I dont think he was bad, i just think that for the second year in a row, he underperformed based on expectations.

Like last year he couldnt exploit a very favorable matchup with barnes, this year he couldnt with robertson.

You may like to blame Duncan who is 40, or ginobili who is 38, both of them make marginal money. Or Mills, or Parker, or even LA on his first year here.

But i put the blame on the player that i had the highest expectation, and whom had the easiest matchup of the series, and that is Kawhi Leonard.

He played good, but not great, he underperformed based on expectation, and flaws of his games were evident. He doesnt recognize when to attack and when to pass, doesnt demand the ball on crucial situations, doesnt know how to impose his will on a game the way tim and manu used.

It´s fine, he is young and he will grow, but this year, and considering last year too, he deserves the blame.

He IS one of two max players.

And the thing about pop is this, if Pop didnt give him the ball at the end, is because he saw Kawhi wasnt confident enough.

[Brazil]

Kawhi hate is as ridiculous as LMA hate... good grief OP

[Spurs_619]

Yeah, i mean LA, it´s the autotext, anyways, i dont get the overreaction by kawhi player fans suh as yourself.

I am going to be clear on this matter.

I dont think he was bad, i just think that for the second year in a row, he underperformed based on expectations.



Like last year he couldnt exploit a very favorable matchup with barnes, this year he couldnt with robertson.

You may like to blame Duncan who is 40, or ginobili who is 38, both of them make marginal money. Or Mills, or Parker, or even LA on his first year here.

But i put the blame on the player that i had the highest expectation, and whom had the easiest matchup of the series, and that is Kawhi Leonard.

He played good, but not great, he underperformed based on expectation, and flaws of his games were evident. He doesnt recognize when to attack and when to pass, doesnt demand the ball on crucial situations, doesnt know how to impose his will on a game the way tim and manu used.

It´s fine, he is young and he will grow, but this year, and considering last year too, he deserves the blame.

He IS one of two max players.

And the thing about pop is this, if Pop didnt give him the ball at the end, is because he saw Kawhi wasnt confident enough.


Kawhi had the easiest matchup having to carry the offense, and guard KD and Westbrook? Im sorry that makes absolutely no sense.

[Horse]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?

Kahwi will just continue to improve. He had a few games his shot wasn't falling but these fucks discount what he's doing on D. He was even attacking more but the guy couldn't get a call to save his life. My only issue with LMA is if he would just roll he'd get even easier shots and free up 3-pt shooters. Seems pretty simple if Tiago was getting dunks and layups rolling when there is no need to respect his jumper imagine how open Aldridge would be.

[elemento]

Both are ridiculous tbh

Pop deserves more blame than both, at least in the series against OKC.

[still.focused]

Before anybody tries to bash LMAs series you might wanna look at the actual numbers...then STFU (Reverse order would also be acceptable)
27 & 9 on 52% shooting for the series is nothing to scoff at

[YGWHI]

I don't see the argument you just make mine better. Wb had great defenders on him and still played great, Kawhi played good against no one, we needed extraordinary against Robertson.


Kawhi had the easiest matchup and he didn't deliver great

I wonder if you even read what you post.

You say that Westbrook played great and Kawhi not, when the number says otherwise.

And the fact that Kawhi was on Westbrook -and Durant for stretches- means he had the easiest matchup?

Kawhi was better on offense than Westbrook and had to defend him the whole series, while Westbrook was guarding Parker...



If he gave the last possessions to tony and Lewis because he saw them wanting it. I laugh at those that think pop don't look at their players. There is a reason while Kauai didn't had the ball in his hands.
It's likely that guys like Waiters or even a rookie like Payne want and dream with closing a playoffs game, but I'm sure that Donovan doesn't give them the ball in those situations.

And you can't say Kawhi didn't want the ball. In the 4th quarter, he asked for the ball in the post two times, it was very clear, but Parker decided to run other plays during those minutes.


You may like to blame Duncan who is 40, or ginobili who is 38, both of them make marginal money. Or Mills, or Parker, or even LA on his first year here.

But i put the blame on the player that i had the highest expectation, and whom had the easiest matchup of the series, and that is Kawhi Leonard.
:lol

The Spurs led by 6 with Kawhi on the floor, then -when Pop sat him- they were -12. Should we blame Kawhi on the bench for OKC run, right?

[Kawhitstorm]

Like last year he couldnt exploit a very favorable matchup with barnes, this year he couldnt with robertson.

He torched Barnes last season for the first 4 games BEFORE Doc started doubling him w/ Blake. He started forcing low percentage shots (not his game) when Diaw (Blake's assignment) couldn't make an outside shot to save his life. Muphuckas acting like he was being dared to shoot like Porker.:lol


But i put the blame on the player that i had the highest expectation, and whom had the easiest matchup of the series, and that is Kawhi Leonard

Roberson is OKC's best perimeter defender & that's the "easiest matchup"?:lol OKC ignored Tim when they realized he couldn't make a point blank layup & had whomever was guarding Tim clog the paint. They essentially neutralized LMA's postups after Gm 2 by sending help when he was turning to his right shoulder making him give up the ball. They also crowded Kawhi & dared him to drive into a help defender (he posterized Adams) or shoot over their length.

Pop is to blame for calling isolation plays after isolation plays instead of running PnR w/ his two best players. They essentially dared Tony to beat them after Gm 2 when he run the PnR w/ LMA & he bricked to WIDE OPEN jumpers at the end of Gm 5 which cost them the game. (LMA also bricked a bunch of uncontested jumpers in the second half of Gm 5). Tony's scoring output picked up but he wasn't necessarily punishing 'em. Billy Donovan adjusted his defense/rotation after Gm 1 but Pop kept going to the same well until it went dry, CHECKMATE!


He played good, but not great, he underperformed based on expectation, and flaws of his games were evident. He doesnt recognize when to attack and when to pass, doesnt demand the ball on crucial situations, doesnt know how to impose his will on a game the way tim and manu used.

He's the best TWO-WAY player not the best scorer in the league like Durant. Again, name me a player who could hold WestBrick to 37% shooting & put up 23 on 48% shooting on ISOLATION plays. You have to look at what he did on BOTH ENDS b/c he isn't coasting on defense like James Harden then claiming he should have been the MVP. Even LeBron doesn't play lockdown defense until the 4th quarter to save his legs.


It´s fine, he is young and he will grow, but this year, and considering last year too, he deserves the blame.

Curry got outplayed by WestBrick while hiding on defense & primarily being guarded by WestBrick rather than Roberson. He would foul out in the 3rd quarter or get torched while his offensive output suffers if he had to guard WestBrick for 40 minutes. Kawhi meanwhile has to guard the best perimeter player on the floor for 40 minutes & is EXPECTED to score an efficient 22+ b/c he's a robot that never gets tired. Sometimes I wonder if any of y'all ever got off the couch.


He IS one of two max players.

He happens to be the only one that is All-NBA 1st Team & All-NBA 1st Team defense


And the thing about pop is this, if Pop didnt give him the ball at the end, is because he saw Kawhi wasnt confident enough.

You mean Porky could find him when he was WIDE OPEN on one play & then couldn't hit a wide open jumper when WestBrick abandoned him to deny Kawhi a catch. If only Kawhi had a competent PG like Durant/LeBron.

http://i.imgbox.com/hHooCE9u.gif

[Hoops Czar]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?

He's one of the main reasons the Spurs are out of the playoffs. Maybe if the number 1 star would have shown up in the 4th quarter of game 5, we'd still be playing. Funny, it was certainly OK throwing Parker under the bus in 2012 but it's not OK to criticize Leonard for not showing up in the biggest game of the year. He's a tremendous talent but we need to stop with the Lebron James comparisons now.

[YGWHI]

Maybe if the number 1 star would have shown up in the 4th quarter of game 5, we'd still be playing. Funny, it was certainly OK throwing Parker under the bus in 2012 but it's not OK to criticize Leonard for not showing up in the biggest game of the year

Kawhi was GREAT in game 5, on both ends.

He was the best Spur on the court, sadly we can't say the same about Parker and LMA in that game.

Not sure how you forget that Kawhi scored consecutive points to put the Spurs +7 remaining 4 minutes in the 4th quarter.

But we should question why he didn't get the ball for 4 minutes in that quarter.

Why we saw Parker calling a play for his own shot and other for LMA when both couldn't hit an ocean, or why Kawhi didn't receive the ball when asked for it in the post two times during those 4 minutes?

Kawhi deferred in one play in the last minute but that was a good excuse for Parker not giving him the ball for the previous 3 minutes in the last and most important quarter of the season, with Kawhi having an amazing game and being the only one shooting over .50?

Other guys here say Kawhi/the Spurs need a competent PG, I disagree with them.
They just need a PG who doesn't want to be the hero winning the game, a PG who knows his role, and to be willing to pass Kawhi the ball.

[Hoops Czar]

Other guys here say Kawhi/the Spurs need a competent PG, I disagree with them.
They just need a PG who doesn't want to be the hero winning the game, a PG who knows his role, and to be willing to pass Kawhi the ball.

Ya know, a lot of people here think Kawhi is a better player than Lebron. In Lebron's entire career, have you ever heard of any fan, media member or analyst alike ever say that such and such team needs a PG that knows his role and would be willing to pass Lebron the ball? The ball is in Lebron's hands at the end of games. Why isn't the ball in Leonard's hands at the end of games?

[DMC]

Tu quoque fallacy doesn't work here. Neither are to blame. No one could hit a shot. You have to hit shots in the playoffs. It is what it is, but what it isn't is anyone's fault (Maybe OKCs).

[SD126]

Ya know, a lot of people here think Kawhi is a better player than Lebron. In Lebron's entire career, have you ever heard of any fan, media member or analyst alike ever say that such and such team needs a PG that knows his role and would be willing to pass Lebron the ball? The ball is in Lebron's hands at the end of games. Why isn't the ball in Leonard's hands at the end of games?

Exactly

[DarrinS]

Ya know, a lot of people here think Kawhi is a better player than Lebron. In Lebron's entire career, have you ever heard of any fan, media member or analyst alike ever say that such and such team needs a PG that knows his role and would be willing to pass Lebron the ball? The ball is in Lebron's hands at the end of games. Why isn't the ball in Leonard's hands at the end of games?


http://i.imgbox.com/hHooCE9u.gif

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He's one of the main reasons the Spurs are out of the playoffs. Maybe if the number 1 star would have shown up in the 4th quarter of game 5, we'd still be playing. Funny, it was certainly OK throwing Parker under the bus in 2012 but it's not OK to criticize Leonard for not showing up in the biggest game of the year. He's a tremendous talent but we need to stop with the Lebron James comparisons now.

WTF are you talking about??? Go back and watch game 5 again, or at least watch the last 8 minutes. He keeps us in the fucking game! LMA's 2 missed bunnies, then TP's 2 misses, and that weird Westbrook play when everyone stopped, are the reason we lost that game. Why the fuck wasn't Parker giving the ball to Kawhi? He was wide open on Parker's second missed pull-up.

Seriously, go back and watch. I did yesterday just to confirm that I wasn't remembering it incorrectly. That one is on TP and LMA.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kawhi was GREAT in game 5, on both ends.

He was the best Spur on the court, sadly we can't say the same about Parker and LMA in that game.

Not sure how you forget that Kawhi scored consecutive points to put the Spurs +7 remaining 4 minutes in the 4th quarter.

But we should question why he didn't get the ball for 4 minutes in that quarter.

Why we saw Parker calling a play for his own shot and other for LMA when both couldn't hit an ocean, or why Kawhi didn't receive the ball when asked for it in the post two times during those 4 minutes?

Kawhi deferred in one play in the last minute but that was a good excuse for Parker not giving him the ball for the previous 3 minutes in the last and most important quarter of the season, with Kawhi having an amazing game and being the only one shooting over .50?

Other guys here say Kawhi/the Spurs need a competent PG, I disagree with them.
They just need a PG who doesn't want to be the hero winning the game, a PG who knows his role, and to be willing to pass Kawhi the ball.

Yuuuuuuup. :tu

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ya know, a lot of people here think Kawhi is a better player than Lebron. In Lebron's entire career, have you ever heard of any fan, media member or analyst alike ever say that such and such team needs a PG that knows his role and would be willing to pass Lebron the ball? The ball is in Lebron's hands at the end of games. Why isn't the ball in Leonard's hands at the end of games?

Because they are completely different kinds of players. Kawhi is Scottie Pippen reincarnated, but a better shooter and not as good a playmaker. LeBron is a running back with a lineman's size and basketballer's skills.

I've never compared the two and won't. They are completely different basketball talents, although both transcendent. Kawhi may be the best perimeter defender the game has ever seen by the time he's finished, and LBJ the best offensive SF.

[T Park]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?


Better jettison the multi all star power forward now. They grow on trees

[Dre_7]

First of all, I love both players and know how fortunate we are to have Kawhi and Aldridge as the Big Three Era is starting to come to an end. How many other teams get to go from one era to another without a rebuilding phase of some kind? Aldridge has a year with the Spurs under his belt, I expect him to have a much better season next year.

Second, Kawhi hate makes absolutely NO SENSE to me. He helped bring a 5th Championship to San Antonio. He did so winning a FMVP in a series that he absolutely dominated the final three games. He is the best defensive player in the league, one of the best three point shooters, a first team All NBA Player, an All-Star, won his second straight DPOY award, and was second place in the MVP voting. Now think about all that combined with the fact that he is still only 24 and that he has gotten better every single year, while adding to his offensive game every offseason. You don't think he is going to do the same this offseason?

Spurs are in great shape for the future.

[YGWHI]

Because they are completely different kinds of players. Kawhi is Scottie Pippen reincarnated, but a better shooter and not as good a playmaker. LeBron is a running back with a lineman's size and basketballer's skills.
Not really.

But also, it's not a matter of skills. It's about roles.


Ya know, a lot of people here think Kawhi is a better player than Lebron. In Lebron's entire career, have you ever heard of any fan, media member or analyst alike ever say that such and such team needs a PG that knows his role and would be willing to pass Lebron the ball? The ball is in Lebron's hands at the end of games. Why isn't the ball in Leonard's hands at the end of games?

Why? Because Parker doesn't accept his new role. He said the right things "this is Kawhi's team" but his play says otherwise.

I guess LeBron never had to deal with that Parker-type of player at his 23-24 years old in Cleveland.

Why Pop should ask Parker to pass the fucking ball to the main scorer? Why a 10 years younger guy has to be vocal to get the ball from the vet point guard?

A true point guard knows he has to keep his scorers going and... never keep the ball away from them.

At this point of his career, Parker should know what is his job/role. But he doesn't.

[SD126]

Spurs as a team shit the bed after game 1, per par.

[tholdren]

http://i.imgbox.com/hHooCE9u.gif

DarrinS in da house with the bads, per usual

[spursistan]

the thing that nobody is actually talking about is the underwhelming defensive series of LMA--rebounding, rim protection..it is like he thought he is going to be dropping 40 on them each game so he can afford to take off competing on the other end..

He averaged 37 MPG in the series and only committed 1.7 fouls per game..that's how averse to banging and aggressive contesting of shot he was in a series the Spurs got murdered bigs-to-bigs..Even a smart defender like Timmy was taking 3.7 fouls per game in last season Clippers series while playing 35 MPG in a similar circumstances when the Spurs had only one good Big who could play major minutes ..

[Trill Clinton]

i ran into kawhi, danny and george hill at the airport this morning. chopped it up with them real quick before they headed out.

[tholdren]

i ran into kawhi, danny and george hill at the airport this morning. chopped it up with them real quick before they headed out.
sounds like a gay ol time

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Better jettison the multi all star power forward now. They grow on trees

C'mon man, I thought you'd grown up. Don't strawman me. If the Spurs moved him through trade they'd get value, although I know they won't.

I don't like relying on a jumpshooter as the number 1 option in close playoff games. Do you? He also clogs up what used to be a beautiful offensive system by holding the ball far too long.

I hope he changes his game a bit next year to facilitate more ball movement. He's a quality player, but game 5 really exposed him. We probably win that game if he hits even one of the 5 or 6 wide open jumpers he missed, including 2 in the last 3 minutes.

[timtonymanu]

C'mon man, I thought you'd grown up. Don't strawman me. If the Spurs moved him through trade they'd get value, although I know they won't.

I don't like relying on a jumpshooter as the number 1 option in close playoff games. Do you? He also clogs up what used to be a beautiful offensive system by holding the ball far too long.

I hope he changes his game a bit next year to facilitate more ball movement. He's a quality player, but game 5 really exposed him. We probably win that game if he hits even one of the 5 or 6 wide open jumpers he missed, including 2 in the last 3 minutes.

Don't mind T Park. His only role in this forum is to complain or twist the words around of posts to make himself look good.

[skulls138]

Stop the Kawhi hate, seriously. The guy is a phenomonal talent and not the reason we're out of the playoffs. Age, lack of athleticism, some bad breaks and facing a talented team that wanted it more is why we've gone fishing.

How about some analysis of LMA around here? He was great in games 1 and 2, then disappeared for much of the rest of the series. In crucial game 5 he went 6-21 missing at least 5 wide-open, uncontested jumpers (supposedly his bread and butter), including a 12ft bunny in the final 1:30 that would have put us up 4 and could have steadied the ship. Choke much?

Do you like relying on a streaky mid range jump shooter to win big playoff game? I don't. He holds the ball, clogs up the offence, and when he's off keeps shooting rather than getting down and dirty and grinding out some post buckets like he should.

We had to grab him when he was available, and we probably have to give him another season, but I'm unconvinced he's the medium term future for this team. What do you think?I like Kawhi because if his offense is off he'll affect the game positively in other ways. And no I dont want LMA relying on that jumper. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[skulls138]

Why? Because Parker doesn't accept his new role. He said the right things "this is Kawhi's team" but his play says otherwise.

I guess LeBron never had to deal with that Parker-type of player at his 23-24 years old in Cleveland.

Why Pop should ask Parker to pass the fucking ball to the main scorer? Why a 10 years younger guy has to be vocal to get the ball from the vet point guard?

A true point guard knows he has to keep his scorers going and... never keep the ball away from them.

At this point of his career, Parker should know what is his job/role. But he doesn't.We needed Parkers points, hes just lost a step. He should though give Kawhi some easier buckets, Kawhi needs easier points. He also deserves them with all the hard work he does. Hes easily the hardest worker out there.

[Spurtacular]

Valid criticism is not hate. Some people are smart enough to know that.

[skulls138]

Has the straw man been beat to death yet? Some of us are more compassionate towards rhetorical arguments, but if it must be done do it cleanly.

The analysis of Kawhi has been focused on whether he has the tools to lead this team. No one is calling him a role player. Jeez.You mean the tools enough to win a championship right? I wanted that too but nobody else showed up either. This title was dependent on both LMA and Kawhi to play at all-star level AND at least 2/3rd of the big 3 to throw back the hands of time one more time, but that didnt happen.

People look at the great record but in reality OKC realized itself at the right time and when they did they were more in their prime, were faster, stronger and bigger.

Refs didnt help either.

[tholdren]

You mean the tools enough to win a championship right? I wanted that too but nobody else showed up either. This title was dependent on both LMA and Kawhi to play at all-star level AND at least 2/3rd of the big 3 to throw back the hands of time one more time, but that didnt happen.

People look at the great record but in reality OKC realized itself at the right time and when they did they were more in their prime, were faster, stronger and bigger.

Refs didnt help either.

KL and LMA are not team leaders. They can't do what it takes to win. Rebound in traffic, fight for a 50/50 ball, and take it to the rim to stop a run or continue a SA run.

If your argument is "they need more help" then you've proved my point.

Both failed during big games at big moments and were out shined by other players. Westbrook was the best player in that series and it wasn't close.

[YGWHI]

KL and LMA are not team leaders. They can't do what it takes to win.
At least one of those two guys...can.


Rebound in traffic, fight for a 50/50 ball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk3myBRJz4Q


and take it to the to stop a run or continue a SA run.
730219483562971136
730221200459354112

[YGWHI]

Before anybody tries to bash LMAs series you might wanna look at the actual numbers...
Don't want to bash him or any other Spurs player.

LMA was the Spurs offensive up-grade for this season, he should have put a way better offensive numbers than the rest of the team but those stats didn't show it.

He took a bit more shots than Kawhi in the playoffs and...scored less.
Kawhi 16.6 FGA 22.5 ppg
LMA 16.9 FGA 21.9 ppg

After these two playoffs series, Kawhi was #2 in PER 29.6 and LMA #8, 25.9
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2016/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/per/All/desc/1/Playoffs

He's is our more talented offensive player, we assumed that LMA would be the MAN on the offensive end, carrying the load for the Spurs in most playoffs games, but he didn't.


the thing that nobody is actually talking about is the underwhelming defensive series of LMA--rebounding, rim protection..it is like he thought he is going to be dropping 40 on them each game so he can afford to take off competing on the other end..

He averaged 37 MPG in the series and only committed 1.7 fouls per game..that's how averse to banging and aggressive contesting of shot he was in a series the Spurs got murdered bigs-to-bigs..Even a smart defender like Timmy was taking 3.7 fouls per game in last season Clippers series while playing 35 MPG in a similar circumstances when the Spurs had only one good Big who could play major minutes ..

It's sad, but the Spurs didn't have any big man on the top #10 in rebounds.

LMA didn't finish in the top of defensive players in any category. Just in blocks per game #8 (with Kawhi)

But Kawhi was also #1 in steals per game, #4 in Def Rtg (behind 3 PF/C), Def Win Shares #3...At least, he was doing the job on that end.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2016/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/per/All/desc/1/Playoffs

[still.focused]

Don't want to bash him or any other Spurs player.

LMA was the Spurs offensive up-grade for this season, he should have put a way better offensive numbers than the rest of the team but those stats didn't show it.

He took a bit more shots than Kawhi in the playoffs and...scored less.
Kawhi 16.6 FGA 22.5 ppg
LMA 16.9 FGA 21.9 ppg

After these two playoffs series, Kawhi was #2 in PER 29.6 and LMA #8, 25.9
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2016/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/per/All/desc/1/Playoffs

He's is our more talented offensive player, we assumed that LMA would be the MAN on the offensive end, carrying the load for the Spurs in most playoffs games, but he didn't.



It's sad, but the Spurs didn't have any big man on the top #10 in rebounds.

LMA didn't finish in the top of defensive players in any category. Just in blocks per game #8 (with Kawhi)

But Kawhi was also #1 in steals per game, #4 in Def Rtg (behind 3 PF/C), Def Win Shares #3...At least, he was doing the job on that end.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2016/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/per/All/desc/1/Playoffs
Fam are you f*ckin serious
LMA wasnt a lights out scorer all yr but when the POs start you somehow you expected him to carry the load
Kawhi shows the entire world all season long that hes the best offensive(amongst other categories) player we have but you for some reason seem to think Aldridge is
How does this happen?
Your qualm of LMA taking 1/3 of a shot per game more but Kawhi scoring 2/3 of a point more per game is just asinine for 2 reasons
The numbers are so damn low theyre reletively pointless and secondly KAWHI IS THE BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER.
Its completely logical that when he has better offensive performances
Even then where still only talking about measley 2/3 of a point difference
Get ur head outta the stats dude

Sidenote. LMA was 27 & 9 per game on 52% shooting vs OKC

[tholdren]

KL sucks at offense tbh. Watch OKC get to the line.

[midnightpulp]

Neither of the big 2 were to blame for this series.

When 3 of your top 6 rotation players are +14 season veterans, with two of them on their last legs, you can't expect to beat a team like the Thunder, who are peaking and young and athletic across the board.

Thunder are also the real deal. Beating the shit out of Golden State right now.

[tholdren]

Neither of the big 2 were to blame for this series.

When 3 of your top 6 rotation players are +14 season veterans, with two of them on their last legs, you can't expect to beat a team like the Thunder, who are peaking and young and athletic across the board.

Thunder are also the real deal. Beating the shit out of Golden State right now.
gift the lack of understanding by kl and lma was exactly why sa lost the series. they play scared

[cd98]

Kawhi is a gem, even without success in the playoffs the last two years. I don't know of a successful team where the leading scorer was the best individual defender on the team (except centers from years past). I wonder if we need to add another scorer to be top dog or another defender so Kawhi can spend more energy on offense. I think his late game fades were a combo of fatigue and less so, just not getting the ball. But mostly he wasn't getting open, which makes me think it was fatigue.

[rasuo214]

lol at anyone blaming Kawhi or LMA, they were the only 2 to show up in the playoffs. The difference between the Spurs and teams like OKC, GSW and CLE are that their roles players have stepped up in the playoffs. The fact that the Spurs were still able to keep it close against OKC was impressive.

[YGWHI]

The numbers are so damn low theyre reletively pointless and secondly KAWHI IS THE BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER.

Well, most people here say that LMA is the natural scorer over Kawhi, they said he should carry the load and Kawhi could save some energy to play D...

The same people expected LMA to show it in playoffs putting a lot better numbers than Kawhi. But he didn't.

Or you're right and Kawhi's a better offensive player than him...or LMA didn't quite meet the expectations.

[kaji157]

Many here are saying that it was the role players who failed, i would say that Duncan and Ginobili were far below their averages this series, specially in play making, and that exposed how poor Kawhi and LA are as play makers, most often than not they made poor decision on offense, and the fact that Parker is also a shitty play maker and that Diaw was MIA exposed this even more.

Truth is during our last runs, Tim, Tony and Manu have been the most important players as they allow an offensive flow no other core produced league wide, specially Manu and Tim, who were maybe the best in passing out immediately after creating a team advantage,obviously peaking in 2014. In this regard, Kawhi and LA are years away of developing that team chemistry, and without that chemistry role players rarely succeed.

[skulls138]

KL and LMA are not team leaders. They can't do what it takes to win. Rebound in traffic, fight for a 50/50 ball, and take it to the rim to stop a run or continue a SA run.

If your argument is "they need more help" then you've proved my point.

Both failed during big games at big moments and were out shined by other players. Westbrook was the best player in that series and it wasn't close.If you dont think Kawhi cant win 50/50 balls and rebound your crazy, he was constantly doing that. If theres a problem with him its that he missed some shots down the stretch, mainly because he was exhausted from doing so much on both sides of the court and he was relying too much on the short jumper. The defender wasnt afraid of him driving to the basket so forced Kawhi into a fadeaway.

Also, why is saying that he and LMA needing help prove your point that they arent good enough? You say Westbrook was the best player in the series but there whole team was better than the Spurs. Adams dominated the boards (understatement), you have Durant, Kanter, etc. As I said OKC found themselves and once they did that they were in their prime, they were bigger, stronger, faster and now they know how to play team ball. Spurs on the other hand, other than Kawhi and LMA, are either way older or way too inexperienced.

[skulls138]

Well, most people here say that LMA is the natural scorer over Kawhi, they said he should carry the load and Kawhi could save some energy to play D...

The same people expected LMA to show it in playoffs putting a lot better numbers than Kawhi. But he didn't.

Or you're right and Kawhi's a better offensive player than him...or LMA didn't quite meet the expectations.Kawhi is my favorite player but LMA is the more natural scorer. What he needs though is to develop more intangibles, a better inside game and a desire to get more physical. You cant have Kawhi busting his ass all over the court and LMA saying "Im the scorer, I dont get my hands dirty." He had some excellent shooting games but when that dried up he didnt have much else. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[UZER]

If you dont think Kawhi cant win 50/50 balls and rebound your crazy, he was constantly doing that. If theres a problem with him its that he missed some shots down the stretch, mainly because he was exhausted from doing so much on both sides of the court and he was relying too much on the short jumper. The defender wasnt afraid of him driving to the basket so forced Kawhi into a fadeaway.

Also, why is saying that he and LMA needing help prove your point that they arent good enough? You say Westbrook was the best player in the series but there whole team was better than the Spurs. Adams dominated the boards (understatement), you have Durant, Kanter, etc. As I said OKC found themselves and once they did that they were in their prime, they were bigger, stronger, faster and now they know how to play team ball. Spurs on the other hand, other than Kawhi and LMA, are either way older or way too inexperienced.

Sad thing is, he will never learn to manage that energy to have something left in the tank late in games, playoff games, if Pop continues to only play him 30-33 min a game during the regular season.

It's a skill that even Jordan had to learn. You build up stamina over time, and also learn how to pick your spots.

[tholdren]

If you dont think Kawhi cant win 50/50 balls and rebound your crazy, he was constantly doing that. If theres a problem with him its that he missed some shots down the stretch, mainly because he was exhausted from doing so much on both sides of the court and he was relying too much on the short jumper. The defender wasnt afraid of him driving to the basket so forced Kawhi into a fadeaway.

Also, why is saying that he and LMA needing help prove your point that they arent good enough? You say Westbrook was the best player in the series but there whole team was better than the Spurs. Adams dominated the boards (understatement), you have Durant, Kanter, etc. As I said OKC found themselves and once they did that they were in their prime, they were bigger, stronger, faster and now they know how to play team ball. Spurs on the other hand, other than Kawhi and LMA, are either way older or way too inexperienced.
LMA and KL are so good they are still in the playoffs.... KL is so good he has led a Spurs Team to a Conference Finals or beyond.... They need more help and are no more than pieces, not a centerpiece.

[rasuo214]

Many here are saying that it was the role players who failed, i would say that Duncan and Ginobili were far below their averages this series, specially in play making, and that exposed how poor Kawhi and LA are as play makers, most often than not they made poor decision on offense, and the fact that Parker is also a shitty play maker and that Diaw was MIA exposed this even more.

Truth is during our last runs, Tim, Tony and Manu have been the most important players as they allow an offensive flow no other core produced league wide, specially Manu and Tim, who were maybe the best in passing out immediately after creating a team advantage,obviously peaking in 2014. In this regard, Kawhi and LA are years away of developing that team chemistry, and without that chemistry role players rarely succeed.

The team should have focused more on the Kawhi LMA 2 man game. There was a stretch when TD was hurt before the AS game where those 2 looked like they were building chemistry and then the team wen't away from that. I know people miss the beautiful game but that only works when you have the players for it and the Spurs just didn't have shooters for it (or at least they weren't shooting as well as they used to).

[skulls138]

LMA and KL are so good they are still in the playoffs.... KL is so good he has led a Spurs Team to a Conference Finals or beyond.... They need more help and are no more than pieces, not a centerpiece.And whats a centerpiece? Jordan, Bird, Lebron? Good luck with that! Maybe you would rather have Carmelo, AI or Mcgrady? They have much more talent but not near the heart and I would venture to say KL will have the more winning career than those underachievers.

Time will tell whether KL will continue to shine without the supposed umbrella the big 3 provide. There have been some good to great teams that have won w/out a great centerpiece. 80s Pistons come to mind, as well as 04 Pistons. What needs to happen is players like KA and Boban need to realize their ideal potential, LMA needs to be more like TD and Kawhi needs to keep on progressing. Of course we need more but we're not getting another Duncan is what Im saying. Im happy with who we do have for now.

[rasuo214]

And whats a centerpiece? Jordan, Bird, Lebron? Good luck with that! Maybe you would rather have Carmelo, AI or Mcgrady? They have much more talent but not near the heart and I would venture to say KL will have the more winning career than those underachievers.

Time will tell whether KL will continue to shine without the supposed umbrella the big 3 provide. There have been some good to great teams that have won w/out a great centerpiece. 80s Pistons come to mind, as well as 04 Pistons. What needs to happen is players like KA and Boban need to realize their ideal potential, LMA needs to be more like TD and Kawhi needs to keep on progressing. Of course we need more but we're not getting another Duncan is what Im saying. Im happy with who we do have for now.

The funny thing is all 3 of those centerpieces needed help as well but there's no point in discussing with tholdren unless you're trolling him because he'll just repeat the same idiotic argument over and over again.

[tholdren]

The funny thing is all 3 of those centerpieces needed help as well but there's no point in discussing with tholdren unless you're trolling him because he'll just repeat the same idiotic argument over and over again.

nope KL needs more help. Bring in LMA. LMA needs more help, Spurs need Durant.... RC and Pop are Done.

[SAGirl]

Many here are saying that it was the role players who failed, i would say that Duncan and Ginobili were far below their averages this series, specially in play making, and that exposed how poor Kawhi and LA are as play makers, most often than not they made poor decision on offense, and the fact that Parker is also a shitty play maker and that Diaw was MIA exposed this even more.

Truth is during our last runs, Tim, Tony and Manu have been the most important players as they allow an offensive flow no other core produced league wide, specially Manu and Tim, who were maybe the best in passing out immediately after creating a team advantage,obviously peaking in 2014. In this regard, Kawhi and LA are years away of developing that team chemistry, and without that chemistry role players rarely succeed.
+1
Agreed.

[spursistan]

Much respect for Kawhi for keeping high efficiency on offense while chasing the two monsters of OKC (Russ/Durant) for 40 minutes :tu..

[LakerHater]

Kawhi jus named all defensive 1st team for the 2nd consecuvative yr

[timtonymanu]

Much respect for Kawhi for keeping high efficiency on offense while chasing the two monsters of OKC (Russ/Durant) for 40 minutes :tu..

Yep. So all the criticism towards Kawhi is ridiculous. Only prime LeBron could do it better than him.

[spursistan]

Yep. So all the criticism towards Kawhi is ridiculous. Only prime LeBron could do it better than him.
it sounds like a cliché, but really Kawhi needs more help (especially on the perimeter)..i hope PATFO can find PG or another wing in the offseason who is elite on at least one end of the floor so they can relieve Kawhi from doing it all..

[Kawhitstorm]

Yep. So all the criticism towards Kawhi is ridiculous. Only prime LeBron could do it better than him.

PEAK Bron had KD dropping 30 on 55% shooting in the 2012 Finals although he outplayed him during crunch time. :lol

[Kawhitstorm]

it sounds like a cliché, but really Kawhi needs more help (especially on the perimeter)..i hope PATFO can find PG or another wing in the offseason who is elite on at least one end of the floor so they can relieve Kawhi from doing it all..

If there's a contender that Chris Paul would be a perfect fit for, it's the Spurs. He would destroy teams running PnP w/ LMA & Danny would be feasting in transition. Come crunch time, give the ball to Kawhi.:lol

[SequSpur]

Chris Paul is a loser. Losers lose! Just like Dusty!

[tholdren]

Yep. So all the criticism towards Kawhi is ridiculous. Only prime LeBron could do it better than him.
Captain Gay here with the Advanced Stats argument, wins and rings don't matter if your plus minus is good.