Clearing Cap Space Will be the Wrong Move For the Spurs

[024]

Reasons why the Spurs shouldn't chase cap space:

1. The free agent class is pretty bad this year. Durant is definitely not leaving now. Conley will be 29 next season, Horford will be 30, Dwight... :lol. Can you imagine the Spurs paying $26 million for any of those players? Biyombo will be overpaid ala Tristan Thompson. Decent prospects like Ezeli, Barnes, and Clarkson will be a restricted free agents and command an absurd amount of money. Some team will be stupid enough to throw near max money to try to pry them from their current teams. Who's left? Kent Bazemore? Batum?

2. Duncan and/or Ginobili may want to return. That will eat up a lot of cap space. No matter how much you don't want to believe it, if either Duncan or Ginobili wants to return, the Spurs won't say no (more importantly, the Spurs can't say no since the two have player options). Even if they don't return, the Spurs still need to replace them. There's a small chance Duncan and Ginobili opt out to return for the vet min but that can't be expected of them.

3. Boban should be re-signed. He will be a restricted FA but if the Spurs are already over the cap, other teams might be dissuaded from signing him since the Spurs will likely match. Boban looked like Yao Ming lite this year. Yao had a better understanding of the game and was actually more fluid but Boban is good enough to give the bench a powerful scoring punch. He has good footwork, fights for position in the paint, can get to the line, and can rebound. Look at these moves:

JSEt94S73ZY.

Even if Boban never develops into a starter, as a bench big, he should give the Spurs much needed scoring. Combined with Simmons looking like Tyreke Evans, the Spurs bench should look better next year as the two get more minutes.

4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade. If I understand this correctly, Diaw's contract is unguaranteed and Anderson's contract is technically an expiring one since his next year is a team option. That's around $8 million of salary to trade to a team that once to clear cap space and/or save money. For reference, Teague's contract is around $8 million, although I'm not sure if he's the best fit. Diaw can even be packaged with Mills for a $10 million contract.

5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee. The Spurs can add a $8 million player through trade and sign a $5.6 million player. That's almost $14 million to work with. The Spurs can probably clear $14 million worth of cap space but that will depend on Duncan and Ginobili retiring, cutting Diaw, and letting Boban walk. Spurs can possibly clear more than $14 million but again, back to number 1, who are they going to sign?

Spurs can always take a risk by throwing stupid amounts of money at Clarkson, Ezeli, or Barnes. But I don't think that's the Spurs style even though I kind of want to see the Spurs gamble. And I definitely don't think they should throw the $26 million 4 year max at Conley, Horford, or Dwight. Spurs will be better off staying over the cap, make whatever moves they can, and develop whoever they can.

[spurs10]

Reasons why the Spurs shouldn't chase cap space:

1. The free agent class is pretty bad this year. Durant is definitely not leaving now. Conley will be 29 next season, Horford will be 30, Dwight... :lol. Can you imagine the Spurs paying $26 million for any of those players? Biyombo will be overpaid ala Tristan Thompson. Decent prospects like Ezeli, Barnes, and Clarkson will be a restricted free agents and command an absurd amount of money. Some team will be stupid enough to throw near max money to try to pry them from their current teams. Who's left? Kent Bazemore? Batum?

2. Duncan and/or Ginobili may want to return. That will eat up a lot of cap space. No matter how much you don't want to believe it, if either Duncan or Ginobili wants to return, the Spurs won't say no (more importantly, the Spurs can't say no since the two have player options). Even if they don't return, the Spurs still need to replace them. There's a small chance Duncan and Ginobili opt out to return for the vet min but that can't be expected of them.

3. Boban should be re-signed. He will be a restricted FA but if the Spurs are already over the cap, other teams might be dissuaded from signing him since the Spurs will likely match. Boban looked like Yao Ming lite this year. Yao had a better understanding of the game and was actually more fluid but Boban is good enough to give the bench a powerful scoring punch. He has good footwork, fights for position in the paint, can get to the line, and can rebound. Look at these moves:

JSEt94S73ZY.

Even if Boban never develops into a starter, as a bench big, he should give the Spurs much needed scoring. Combined with Simmons looking like Tyreke Evans, the Spurs bench should look better next year as the two get more minutes.

4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade. If I understand this correctly, Diaw's contract is unguaranteed and Anderson's contract is technically an expiring one since his next year is a team option. That's around $8 million of salary to trade to a team that once to clear cap space and/or save money. For reference, Teague's contract is around $8 million, although I'm not sure if he's the best fit. Diaw can even be packaged with Mills for a $10 million contract.

5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee. The Spurs can add a $8 million player through trade and sign a $5.6 million player. That's almost $14 million to work with. The Spurs can probably clear $14 million worth of cap space but that will depend on Duncan and Ginobili retiring, cutting Diaw, and letting Boban walk. Spurs can possibly clear more than $14 million but again, back to number 1, who are they going to sign?

Spurs can always take a risk by throwing stupid amounts of money at Clarkson, Ezeli, or Barnes. But I don't think that's the Spurs style even though I kind of want to see the Spurs gamble. And I definitely don't think they should throw the $26 million 4 year max at Conley, Horford, or Dwight. Spurs will be better off staying over the cap, make whatever moves they can, and develop whoever they can.
June 22 & 30 will be very important. Then we'll know if Tim, Manu, and West are opting in and if Diaw's option is picked up.

[Kawhitstorm]

Besides Pau, PATFO will be going after 3rd tier FAs like Marvin Williams who can be signed to a relatively reasonable contract after dumping Diaw.

[baseline bum]

Duncan sure looked like he knew it was his last game when he held up a finger to the OKC fans in Game 6, so clearing cap space looks like it's going to be forced onto the Spurs.

[GSH]

If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?

Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.

They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. Hell, re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the shit out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the fucking hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)

In 17-18 they would have a shitload of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Obviously Tim's and Manu's decision about returning will have a massive impact on how the FO approach the offseason. If both return they'll try to use trades and exceptions to give them the best shot at a title run. Trades will be much easier this summer due to so many teams having cap space, so a smart FO can make impactful and creative decisions. And yes, if Tim/Manu return then chances of trading Tony go from 1% to 0%.

If they don't return basically all options will be on the table. They could try to create space to throw big money at someone they believe would compliment LMA and Kawhi, or they could be very conservative and avoid deals that would take from 2017's cap space. In such a case Diaw's contract would be good. I certainly wouldn't want non-difference makers like Thomas Robinson, Eric Gordon, etc. taking a dip into 2017's cap space.

[SAGirl]

If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?

Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.

They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. Hell, re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the shit out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the fucking hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)

In 17-18 they would have a shitload of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.
I like this for several reasons:
1. I think Bertans might turn out a good NBA player. Looks like the real deal. Can't be sure with his fragile injury history and he seems slim but he's athletic, tall and a damn good shooter. At least he can fill the Marco role.
2. Find out whatever you can with Boban. He does have potential. Heck had POP done number 1 with Boban from day 1 (play him more outside of garbage time) instead of being committed to DWest (bc that salary he left! + we are all in for Manu & Tim last season!), who knows, maybe we don't have 67 wins but do have a better team at the end.
^^ This is also the thing with betting on young talent. These guys do get better with playing time and experience and you can have a better team come the postseason, than you did to start. Meantime the Spurs with so many over the hill players have been the opposite, failing 2 postseason in a row bc they were relying too heavily on too many old players (+Tiago who could never stay healthy.)
+We will be able to fill maybe one or two of the largest needs in FA, but not all. Some roleplayers need to be homegrown and they need to play real minutes to develop. They did the garbage time thing this season, but it's not enough. If you want players to help you in the postseason, they must be relied on to win games in the RS as well.
3. I know there are doubts with Anderson and Simmons but they may turn out to be NBA players after all too. Frankly KA played better without Ginobili-spot up shooting is not his thing (though it's something he needs to work on). Simmons OTOH wilted big time when asked to make plays with the ball. So despite all appearances to the contrary, there are more doubts with him in the end, but Pop liked them both enough to develop all season. One is still young enough to develop further, the other has enough athleticism and talent to get a second chance to see if he can improve those handles.
4. Cady I think was scheduled to join the team anyways and he's a worthy prospect, and there are projects like Ndoye that might be with a look too + our draft pick. It will be worth it to see who among this crew can turn into a roleplayer and whoever doesn't make it by season's end.
5. Tim Manu Dre Miller, all these geriatrics are there to coach this young crew, help them grow, not to carry them. But I think they retire. It wouldn't be a return to send them off in style. It would be a return bc they want to help these guys out. Maybe they say nah! It's time. Let Kawhi and LMA put on the big boy pants. Frankly it would probably be for the best to develop these two as leaders as well.
6. We might not even miss the playoffs (bc a team with Kawhi, LMA and Danny may be good enough to push us to a low seed, look at Portland), which would not make it a true tank, but Pop must really commit to develop, not his old schticks. I would get rid of Kmart bc he would undoubtedly end up eating time that should be spent in shooters like Bertans or SG like Simmons and he was cancerous. I don't think he made us better, but worse. Time that could have been spent developing a spine or some old fashioned balls into Anderson or Simmons was spent on that shitty player. That was like watching these two get benched for Austin Daye. Really, no thanks!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

5. Tim Manu Dre Miller, all these geriatrics are there to coach this young crew, help them grow, not to carry them. But I think they retire. It wouldn't be a return to send them off in style. It would be a return bc they want to help these guys out. Maybe they say nah! It's time. Let Kawhi and LMA put on the big boy pants. Frankly it would probably be for the best to develop these two as leaders as well.


Wishing for Tim and Manu to retire so you can enjoy the marvellous future of Cady Lallane, Youssou N'Doye, Davis Bertans, Simmons, etc.?

I've heard it all now.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?

OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.


Clear cap space, and sign some cheap players so that they can clear more cap space the next season. Tank and get some ping-pong balls. You know that Tim and Manu aren't going to be around for the 17-18 season. Face the music, and re-build. Delaying the inevitable only makes things worse.

They have Kawhi, LMA, and Danny as a nucleus for 17-18. Jettison Diaw and West. Get Boban re-signed and give him enough minutes to see if he can become a legit NBA center. Play Anderson and Simmons, and bring up Cady. Hell, re-sign Andre Miller and Kevin Martin for min deals. If one of the Spurs' stash players can finally come play, play the shit out of him the first year, for a change. Find a way to dump Tony's salary, and just take the fucking hit on it. (Out of everything, that last one may be impossible.)

I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.


In 17-18 they would have a shitload of cap space to throw at a better class. And they would finally have a decent pick in the draft - maybe a second-rounder that would be good enough to snag a player. Maybe even get a second stash player on the roster. If the goal is always to win it all, then there's no point in pretending like there's hope for next season. One year of pain, and they could be back in the mix. But none of the suggestions I've been reading would be enough to fix what's broken by next season.

Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.

[Chinook]

Reasons why the Spurs shouldn't chase cap space:

1. The free agent class is pretty bad this year.

2. Duncan and/or Ginobili may want to return.

3. Boban should be re-signed.

4. Diaw can always be packaged with Anderson for a trade.

5. If the Spurs stay over the cap, they can use the MLE on a player like Gasol or Plumlee.

1 - The free-agent class is not great for max players. But it's fine for everyone else. The Spurs should do all they can to lock in long-term deals before the summer of 2017.

2 - That is completely up to Manu and Tim. The Spurs gave them guaranteed options. If they opt out and retire, the Spurs HAVE to replace them, and they'll need cap space to do it.

3 - Completely conflicts with 5. The Spurs should use their cap space to give Boban a contract. In fact, if they want to keep him, they'll likely have a deal ready to be signed early on in the off-season, as he should want to play internationally.

4 - This is a weird point. Diaw and Anderson can get back a player making up to $12 Million, but they will count as salary to the other team. I'm sure any team would rather have cap space than take back Diaw, and if some teams don't think that, then the Spurs should dump him and use that cap space.

5 - As I said, this conflicts with 3. Boban coming back in your scenario is only guaranteed if the team commits to using the MLE to match offer sheets. The moment they use it on Gasol or Plumlee, Boban can sign a deal that the team is powerless to match. Going the over-the-cap route means the team chooses internal improvement over external, and I honestly don't feel like that's a good bet right now.

[Chinook]

OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.

Well that's not disingenuous...


I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.

OKC did that for years, and it's gotten them guys like Adams and Roberson. Kawhi has no business dictating personnel decisions, and I doubt he's going to "not stand for it" anyway. If Duncan and Manu retire, the Spurs have to take a step back and start rebuilding the bottom half of their roster. I think they can and should do work to fix the top too (I keep saying they should sign the best young starting-level player they can afford to add to their core), but I don't agree at all with the Spurs cutting prospects so guys like Martin and Bonner can hang around. The Spurs just aren't good enough for that anymore.


Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.

The Spurs will become a contender again when they can recover their depth. So using a year to develop cheap prospects into rotation players makes sense. Again, that needs to be balanced with signing one second- or third-tier player. And I expect the team to still make the playoffs as a a fifth or sixth seed (because hell, they're better than teams like Portland even without that big free-agent signing). But 2017 cap space alone won't make them into a contender, and it certainly won't keep them there for long.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

OKC did that for years, and it's gotten them guys like Adams and Roberson. Kawhi has no business dictating personnel decisions, and I doubt he's going to "not stand for it" anyway. If Duncan and Manu retire, the Spurs have to take a step back and start rebuilding the bottom half of their roster. I think they can and should do work to fix the top too (I keep saying they should sign the best young starting-level player they can afford to add to their core), but I don't agree at all with the Spurs cutting prospects so guys like Martin and Bonner can hang around. The Spurs just aren't good enough for that anymore.

OKC didn't tank, not once, not even when injured.I've probably misunderstood what you've meant, but if it's about developing draft picks then they got Adams and Robertson, while the Spurs got Kawhi, Tiago and Danny. I think the Spurs have done better overall in this regard. Don't see the Spurs taking a step back next season at all. They may not be as good if they lose leadership and intangibles, but I don't see it as a conscious plan. Forcefeeding minutes to low level talent like what they have in the pipeline won't turn these guys into capable rotational players. I get the 'see what they have' thinking but I don't believe for one second this will be the FO's future plan.


The Spurs will become a contender again when they can recover their depth. So using a year to develop cheap prospects into rotation players makes sense. Again, that needs to be balanced with signing one second- or third-tier player. And I expect the team to still make the playoffs as a a fifth or sixth seed (because hell, they're better than teams like Portland even without that big free-agent signing). But 2017 cap space alone won't make them into a contender, and it certainly won't keep them there for long.

I don't think the Spurs lost the series because of depth, they lost because of bad match-ups and because of Pop not bothering with adjustments. Also because a certain wheel may have fallen off.

The Spurs were very much a contender this season, they just weren't the favorites. I doubt it's depth they'll be after when constructing the team in the 2 summers ahead. If Manu and Tim retire, I think they'll try to get the best possible players they can surround Kawhi and LMA with and have a go and perhaps go after a bigtime FA next summer in a sort of a missing piece fashion. Developing a gang of 3 or 4 prospects, fringe ones at that, at the same time while having a legit MVP candidate on the team, I can't see them go with that, they've never done it. I'll believe it when I see it.

[bklynspursfan]

Duncan sure looked like he knew it was his last game when he held up a finger to the OKC fans in Game 6, so clearing cap space looks like it's going to be forced onto the Spurs.

Never know man. Maybe he was just acknowledging and appreciating the cheers. I think he goes 1 more year and realized this team might not get it all together in 1 season once they signed LMA.

[GSH]

Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are?


Well that pretty much says it all. You're actually worried about Kawhi having a "legitimate chance to be MVP", as a goal of its own. I'm trying to discuss basketball, and you're into beauty pageants. There's no basis for discussion. You're on a totally different planet.

For the record, the purpose isn't to develop any of the guys you mentioned. The point is to take a year to clear significant cap space. The point is to get a talent infusion through the draft by getting a pick above 29 for a change. Using that year to figure out which, if any, of their bench and stash players are actually capable of playing in the NBA? That's just a bonus.



Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.

Having enough cap space to sign a max or near-max player makes all the difference in the world. If you don't understand that - without being told? Like I said... no basis for discussion.

[Gervin44Silas13]

face it our team may be mediocre the next couple of years like the Spurs from 1991-1996.....were gonna have to rebuild and build around the Klaw, LMA, and ugh Green to contend with
the Ogies from Muskogee and the golden Shower dubs.

I believed our future was gonna be KL, CoJo, and Green.......so much for that

[Chinook]

OKC didn't tank, not once, not even when injured.I've probably misunderstood what you've meant, but if it's about developing draft picks then they got Adams and Robertson, while the Spurs got Kawhi, Tiago and Danny. I think the Spurs have done better overall in this regard. Don't see the Spurs taking a step back next season at all. They may not be as good if they lose leadership and intangibles, but I don't see it as a conscious plan. Forcefeeding minutes to low level talent like what they have in the pipeline won't turn these guys into capable rotational players. I get the 'see what they have' thinking but I don't believe for one second this will be the FO's future plan.

OKC tanked in the sense that they've done with GSH is suggesting for years. They shied away from going all out to make their team into one that could win a title. They let guys develop because they didn't rush to spend on guys who were better at that moment. The Spurs did do something like that in 2010-2012, and it paid dividends. But they stopped doing it after that, and now they are left with very little depth and having to rely on unreliable players to compliment their core. So they'll have to do a ton of rebuilding with Tim and Manu potentially out the door. They won't be able to replace what those guys used to give with they money that they have. So they'll have to gain cheap value to make up for their expensive core.


I don't think the Spurs lost the series because of depth, they lost because of bad match-ups and because of Pop not bothering with adjustments. Also because a certain wheel may have fallen off.

Guys like Duncan and Manu WERE their depth. Those guys having bad series is a big factor in the Spurs losing. It used to be that those guys were the stars and the Medium Three, Neal, Mills, Baynes, etc. made up the depth. Now with the Big Three and Diaw in decline, they weren't able to provide that same level of support. And behind them is no one besides perhaps Boban and Anderson, so them leaving doesn't really help matters. Until they get a 5-9 that can support the stars, they are going to be paper tigers.


The Spurs were very much a contender this season, they just weren't the favorites. I doubt it's depth they'll be after when constructing the team in the 2 summers ahead. If Manu and Tim retire, I think they'll try to get the best possible players they can surround Kawhi and LMA with and have a go and perhaps go after a bigtime FA next summer in a sort of a missing piece fashion. Developing a gang of 3 or 4 prospects, fringe ones at that, at the same time while having a legit MVP candidate on the team, I can't see them go with that, they've never done it. I'll believe it when I see it.

Kawhi's not going to get anywhere near the MVP discussion if they decline, one way or the other. And they clearly don't care about Leonard getting that reward, because they could have just played him more minutes during the regular season to further his case. That's not how they roll. Teams have developed guys around stars before. Look at the Pacers last season. They have to do what's best for the team, and getting guys who can fill in the cracks now is the best they can do. Next summer, they can add another star, but they will still be paper tigers if they don't improve their depth. So why not do it this season?

[Chinook]

Having enough cap space to sign a max or near-max player makes all the difference in the world. If you don't understand that - without being told? Like I said... no basis for discussion.

Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

OKC tanked in the sense that they've done with GSH is suggesting for years. They shied away from going all out to make their team into one that could win a title. They let guys develop because they didn't rush to spend on guys who were better at that moment. The Spurs did do something like that in 2010-2012, and it paid dividends. But they stopped doing it after that, and now they are left with very little depth and having to rely on unreliable players to compliment their core. So they'll have to do a ton of rebuilding with Tim and Manu potentially out the door. They won't be able to replace what those guys used to give with they money that they have. So they'll have to gain cheap value to make up for their expensive core.

I see it slightly differently - OKC went all in last year when they matched Kanter's offer and when trading picks for Waiters. They've developed some talent on the go ( not 3 or 4 at the same time though ), but that's what the Spurs have been doing as well and have come up with much better value for it than OKC ever could. Spurs sacrificed some depth when signing LMA and also lost depth due to declining, like you've said, but when it comes to developing guys they've made great effort in the past 5 seasons - Kawhi, Danny, Tiago, CoJo, Baynes, Neal, Patty, even almost-out-of-the-league Diaw to 2014 finals Diaw. The main difference to what they have now, for me, is that the talent they have in the pipeline is fringe. Hell, OKC hold the rights to Alex Abrines, who's a far bigger talent than anything the Spurs have stashed, and they've not yet brought him over. When talent is significant they've shown they can work such players into rotation ones, but when you have LJC, Lallane, Milutinov, this is not remotely similar. Even Bertans isn't anything special at this point but I admit he has the tools to become a decent roleplayer.



Guys like Duncan and Manu WERE their depth. Those guys having bad series is a big factor in the Spurs losing. It used to be that those guys were the stars and the Medium Three, Neal, Mills, Baynes, etc. made up the depth. Now with the Big Three and Diaw in decline, they weren't able to provide that same level of support. And behind them is no one besides perhaps Boban and Anderson, so them leaving doesn't really help matters. Until they get a 5-9 that can support the stars, they are going to be paper tigers.

OKC had Robertson and Waiters enter the season as a bit of laughing stocks, not really 5-9 kinda guys, but they've hit a purple patch at the right time and are playing 30-40 mins of great basketball against GS. Sometimes guys do that and step up. I'm not a fan of the 'if the Spurs had played other scrubs they would have won' theories, but Pop did little to find out any of this against OKC. Bottomline, I don't think the Spurs lacked 5-9 guys, it's just that they didn't step up like some of the same quality players for OKC and Cleveland have been doing, and part of this is on Pop for not having the team at their best after that 5 game home stretch in march.


Kawhi's not going to get anywhere near the MVP discussion if they decline, one way or the other. And they clearly don't care about Leonard getting that reward, because they could have just played him more minutes during the regular season to further his case. That's not how they roll. Teams have developed guys around stars before. Look at the Pacers last season. They have to do what's best for the team, and getting guys who can fill in the cracks now is the best they can do. Next summer, they can add another star, but they will still be paper tigers if they don't improve their depth. So why not do it this season?

That's exactly what I'm saying, it's just that I wouldn't wish these guys to be LJC on a 3 year contract or some developmental rookie for the sake of it. A nice trade, maybe a smart FA signing and they could still be a 50+ win team after Tim and manu retire. No need to semi-tank or sacrifice a 50+ win team for the chance to play some marginal talent for the sake of it.


Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/

Indeed. but then that GSH guy is on a totally different planet.

[GSH]

Eh, they should have a max slot no matter how they play this summer. Only way they can't is if they sign a guy with their cap space and then trade Diaw and Mills for another long-term contract. And I don't think they'll be anyone worth the full max in 2017 anyway unless Durant takes a one-and-one deal. Look at this list and tell me who (out of people who could leave their teams) is going to be worth a contract that's potentially priced at $150M/4: http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2017/


Yeah, I didn't want to write a dissertation, but nothing happens in a vacuum. You can't sign one max/near-max guy and fill out a roster with scrubs. You have to keep a little powder dry, and try to pick up a couple of journeymen in addition to the big acquisition. I've seen a lot of teams lose out on good second-tier players, because they were holding out to try and sign a max guy. I still say that throwing away cap space on stop-gap players will keep them in the first and second rounds of the playoffs, but nothing more.

I took a quick look at the list. That's always depressing, because the few guys who are really, really worth max money are well known, and they only rarely switch teams. (And with Kawhi and LMA, maybe the answer is two high-priced guys, but not a max player.) I didn't see Adams on the list. If I remember, he'll be restricted in 17-18, but the Spurs would be able to throw more at him than OKC could, I'm sure. They really, really need a legit C to go with Kawhi/LMA.

Missing the playoffs one year, and getting a Top-15 draft pick is a big deal, because you not only get what should (hopefully) be a legit player, but you get him for cheap for the length of his rookie contract. That helps balance the books some, too. I know a lot of people are interested in keeping streaks alive. The number of consecutive 50-win seasons, etc. The Dubs are in real danger of finding out just how little those kinds of records are worth.



Indeed. but then that GSH guy is on a totally different planet.

From you? Damn straight.

BTW - you talk to fucking much.

[look_at_g_shred]

Need to get younger and more athletic..spurs don't have to make a big splash in the FA market. They just need to get nice pieces to compliment KL and LMA. Also a scoring threat at the pg position would be nice.

[Keepin' it real]

face it our team may be mediocre the next couple of years like the Spurs from 1991-1996....

:wakeup

The Spurs from 91-96 averaged 55 wins per season. There is nothing mediocre about that.

[Chinook]

I see it slightly differently - OKC went all in last year when they matched Kanter's offer and when trading picks for Waiters.

Yes, and they had the ability to do those things because they had good depth. Those weren't the guys I was talking about. I was talking about guys like Roberson, Ibaka and Adams, whom they developed into starters. They went all in after they had their depth established.


Spurs sacrificed some depth when signing LMA and also lost depth due to declining, like you've said, but when it comes to developing guys they've made great effort in the past 5 seasons - Kawhi, Danny, Tiago, CoJo, Baynes, Neal, Patty, even almost-out-of-the-league Diaw to 2014 finals Diaw.

First, I think I'm using the term "depth" differently than you are. I am talking about the 5-8 of the team, rather than the 9-12 that most people are talking about. When I mention the downgrade in the Spurs' depth, I don't mean that guys like Beli and Baynes aren't on the team -- not really. I mean that the Big Three aren't as good now as the Medium Three were a couple of years ago. The Spurs essentially need to find a new Medium Three, and that probably won't come with any significant free-agent signing.

Second, If you look at the guys you mentioned, you won't see anything beyond what the team can replicate now except maybe Tiago. Kawhi was a trade using a backup guard. Green was a d-league call-up. Joseph was a 29th pick. Baynes and Neal were undrafteds from overseas. Patty and Diaw were both min-level mid-season pickups. The Spurs haven't been good at finding those guys in a couple of years. Until they can do so, they aren't going to have the talent level they need to overtake other teams.


OKC had Robertson and Waiters enter the season as a bit of laughing stocks, not really 5-9 kinda guys, but they've hit a purple patch at the right time and are playing 30-40 mins of great basketball against GS. Sometimes guys do that and step up.

They took the next step to becoming rotation players. Spurs have no one who can do that except Anderson and Boban. Other guys can certainly play well, but you don't expect them to get better permanently.


I'm not a fan of the 'if the Spurs had played other scrubs they would have won' theories, but Pop did little to find out any of this against OKC. Bottomline, I don't think the Spurs lacked 5-9 guys, it's just that they didn't step up like some of the same quality players for OKC and Cleveland have been doing, and part of this is on Pop for not having the team at their best after that 5 game home stretch in march.

But who didn't step up? Leonard LMA and usually Green were there. So we're talking about players like the Big Three, West and Boris and then Patty. Those aren't guys were you just assume they'll be better next year. They may just be done, except Patty. Will LJC, Cady, Bertans, Nikola and 29 fare any better next year? Probably not. But you hope that one or two show you something, along with Anderson, Simmons and maybe Boban. You hope they do like Neal did in 2011 against Memphis, or Leonard in 2012, or Green in 2013 or Mills in 2014. None of those guys came in with us expecting them to be strong rotation players. People still act like Green is a poor NBA prospect. But you have to give guys the chance to compete for those spots, because you need them.


That's exactly what I'm saying, it's just that I wouldn't wish these guys to be LJC on a 3 year contract or some developmental rookie for the sake of it. A nice trade, maybe a smart FA signing and they could still be a 50+ win team after Tim and manu retire. No need to semi-tank or sacrifice a 50+ win team for the chance to play some marginal talent for the sake of it.

As I've said, I want the Spurs to get the best player they can using about $15 Million in cap space. I want that guy to be young and able to grow with Kawhi for six or seven years. They'll have a pretty good 1-4 then, and with Parker and Patty and maybe West back, they'll have a decent 1-8 or 1-9 if you count Anderson. They should be a playoff team. But the 10-15 needs to be young guys who can have a chance to get better. They shouldn't be in the mindset to have guys like Bonner or Martin or even Miller on the team. because "they're contenders and can't afford to give minutes to guys who aren't ready".

In 2013, the 10-15 of the roster (by total minutes) was De Colo, Bonner, Blair, Mills, Joseph and Baynes. Besides Bonner, those were all prospects or young guys who played or ended up playing bigger roles. This past season, the bottom six players who ended the season on the roster were Manu, Simmons, Boban, Martin, Bonner and Miller. That's a huge, huge difference in terms of the team's priorities. That's the difference between a team that grew into a champion and a team that's moribund.

[Gervin44Silas13]

:wakeup

The Spurs from 91-96 averaged 55 wins per season. There is nothing mediocre about that.


win in the regular season and lose in the 1st or 2nd round

[tbdog]

First, I think I'm using the term "depth" differently than you are. I am talking about the 5-8 of the team, rather than the 9-12 that most people are talking about. When I mention the downgrade in the Spurs' depth, I don't mean that guys like Beli and Baynes aren't on the team -- not really. I mean that the Big Three aren't as good now as the Medium Three were a couple of years ago. The Spurs essentially need to find a new Medium Three, and that probably won't come with any significant free-agent signing.


That is what I have been saying. We were one playoff rotational player away from potentially being in the WCF. If West or Diaw stepped up. Heck even Mills. If Manu and TD retire, that is 2 more playoff rotation players you need to make up. We need one more guy that can do his job. Obviously a wing and we now have a hole in the middle with West and Diaw stinking it up, and on top of that you need to have insurance policies for Manu and TD. Are we going to bet down on Anderson and Simmons getting us the insurance policy on the wing or do we make a splash in free agent? And we obvious have a glaring hole at center or a hard working young pf. Then there are questions about Mills. Will he be a burden on us or will he come back to 2014 form? So the Spurs need to make moves, but they don't need to be big fish moves. If we trade or lose any combination of Mills, Manu, TD, Diaw, and West, they all need to be replace with a playoff ready player for any chance of a playoff success.

Edit*

To add, yeh if you lose Manu you can say well Anderson will have to fill in that role, and if we lose say West, we can say Bobon will have to fill in that role, but you are betting against the odds. We want Anderson or Simmons to take the next step, and if we keep Bobon to also take the next step, but all 3 are not proven NBA ready. This is why it is apparent we need to grab at least 2 playoff ready guys. Not vets, and not projects. But guys that have some experience, some athleticism, and are apparently 'over themselves.'

[Keepin' it real]

win in the regular season and lose in the 1st or 2nd round

We must have different definitions for the word mediocre. I'll stick with the dictionary version: "of only ordinary or moderate quality; not very good"

To me, that describes a team around .500 or worse that barely makes the playoffs or misses the playoffs altogether.

So the '91-96 Spurs were not mediocre, they were a good team, but not title-worthy.

And I think the Spurs for the next few seasons, barring something unforseen, will be at that level, too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[024]

1 - The free-agent class is not great for max players. But it's fine for everyone else. The Spurs should do all they can to lock in long-term deals before the summer of 2017.

2 - That is completely up to Manu and Tim. The Spurs gave them guaranteed options. If they opt out and retire, the Spurs HAVE to replace them, and they'll need cap space to do it.

3 - Completely conflicts with 5. The Spurs should use their cap space to give Boban a contract. In fact, if they want to keep him, they'll likely have a deal ready to be signed early on in the off-season, as he should want to play internationally.

4 - This is a weird point. Diaw and Anderson can get back a player making up to $12 Million, but they will count as salary to the other team. I'm sure any team would rather have cap space than take back Diaw, and if some teams don't think that, then the Spurs should dump him and use that cap space.

5 - As I said, this conflicts with 3. Boban coming back in your scenario is only guaranteed if the team commits to using the MLE to match offer sheets. The moment they use it on Gasol or Plumlee, Boban can sign a deal that the team is powerless to match. Going the over-the-cap route means the team chooses internal improvement over external, and I honestly don't feel like that's a good bet right now.
1. But which player would you want the Spurs to sign, and at what price?

2. I don't think we disagree here. I definitely think chances are at least Duncan returns and that'll fill $6.4 million in cap space.

3. Boban is restricted, can't the Spurs match any offer to re-sign him? At the very least, the Spurs need to extend the qualifying offer to keep him restricted, otherwise he becomes unrestricted and the feeding frenzy will begin.

4. Like I said, if I am understanding it correctly, Diaw can be cut and Anderson will be an expiring. Let's use Teague as an example. The Spurs trade Diaw and Anderson for Teague. The Hawks immediately waive Diaw and save $3 million right there and then. They get to test out Anderson for a year and maybe the Spurs throw in a second rounder. Now Teague has an expiring contract but there are more players out there that are on multi year contracts and other teams could save even more money. Can the Hawks dump Teague to a team that has salary space? Yes, but who knows what the other teams are doing.

5. I'm not certain how restricted free agents work with teams over the cap. But I've never heard of a team unable to match an offer sheet because they're over the cap. I would think the Spurs would be able to re-sign its own players and use the MLE as long as they stay over the cap.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

As I've said, I want the Spurs to get the best player they can using about $15 Million in cap space. I want that guy to be young and able to grow with Kawhi for six or seven years. They'll have a pretty good 1-4 then, and with Parker and Patty and maybe West back, they'll have a decent 1-8 or 1-9 if you count Anderson. They should be a playoff team. But the 10-15 needs to be young guys who can have a chance to get better. They shouldn't be in the mindset to have guys like Bonner or Martin or even Miller on the team. because "they're contenders and can't afford to give minutes to guys who aren't ready".


I agree with most of what you've said, the only difference being that I don't think the Spurs have quit finding and developing guys into rotation players, it's just that they've not had the same level of talent to work with. You have the late 1st round pick ( CoJo - Anderson ), the 2nd round prospect ( Blair - McCallum, who didn't pan out ), the international wildcard ( De Colo - Boban ), the d-league hopeful ( Danny - Simmons ), the bought out vet ( Bobo - Martin ). Like you said, it's the 3-5 guys ,the former big 3, that weren't good enough, and yet they still looked much better against OKC than GSW do. Spurs defended them really really well, while they get anything they want against GS.

I just don't think they Spurs have any of these depth guys, say 3-8, on the pipeline or that they're likely to draft and develop them in time to surround LMA and Kawhi with them, as LMA will be a FA in 2 years, and Kawhi in 3, I believe there's a better chance finding either elite roleplayers or a star through free agency, thus I'm fine with your idea of creating some cap space for a player now with the view of securing a max slot for next summer as well, rounding off the team.

[Chinook]

1. But which player would you want the Spurs to sign, and at what price?

I have a list of guys like Clarkson, Gordon, Pau, Sullinger, Johnson, or even Mayo. Jordan and Jared are the top guys on that list, so if they can only get one, I'd rather it be one of those two. But if they can get two of the others, any combo would be nice.


3. Boban is restricted, can't the Spurs match any offer to re-sign him? At the very least, the Spurs need to extend the qualifying offer to keep him restricted, otherwise he becomes unrestricted and the feeding frenzy will begin.

5. I'm not certain how restricted free agents work with teams over the cap. But I've never heard of a team unable to match an offer sheet because they're over the cap. I would think the Spurs would be able to re-sign its own players and use the MLE as long as they stay over the cap.

The Spurs don't have Boban's Bird rights. So they can't just match any contract offer. They have to be able to use cap space or exceptions. The good news is that Boban is an Arenas RFA, so team's can't offer more than the MLE the first year. The bad news is that the Spurs would still need to use the MLE to keep him. So there's no keeping matching rights while using the MLE. After that's signed, it's the QO, the LLE or nothing. That was the point behind those "Is Boban worth it?" threads.


Teague as an example. The Spurs trade Diaw and Anderson for Teague. The Hawks immediately waive Diaw and save $3 million right there and then. They get to test out Anderson for a year and maybe the Spurs throw in a second rounder. Now Teague has an expiring contract but there are more players out there that are on multi year contracts and other teams could save even more money. Can the Hawks dump Teague to a team that has salary space? Yes, but who knows what the other teams are doing.

What they're doing is not making Atlanta pay $4 Million. So they will have to pay less than SA would. That also ignores that it's just easier to make trades when you're under the cap. If the Spurs are over the cap, they will and should look at trade ideas. But that isn't ideal by any means.

[Chinook]

I agree with most of what you've said, the only difference being that I don't think the Spurs have quit finding and developing guys into rotation players, it's just that they've not had the same level of talent to work with. You have the late 1st round pick ( CoJo - Anderson ), the 2nd round prospect ( Blair - McCallum, who didn't pan out ), the international wildcard ( De Colo - Boban ), the d-league hopeful ( Danny - Simmons ), the bought out vet ( Bobo - Martin ). Like you said, it's the 3-5 guys ,the former big 3, that weren't good enough, and yet they still looked much better against OKC than GSW do. Spurs defended them really really well, while they get anything they want against GS.

The difference is time and competition. Those guys were all together for years, and they were able to compete against each other and others for their spots. They didn't sign Green and go "All right, we're good." He was part of a series of guys brought in that started with dudes like Bogans and James Anderson. You had Blair, and McDyess, and Gooden, and Ratliff and a host of other guys before Diaw and Splitter took hold. The PGs had each other and a list of other small guards like Ford and Mason to take compete against. The Spurs don't have that now. They came in with 15 guaranteed contracts. They didn't keep guys like Green, and the rest of their call-ups recently have been dudes like Shannon Brown and Reggie Williams. You'll never improve if you stay complacent.


I just don't think they Spurs have any of these depth guys, say 3-8, on the pipeline or that they're likely to draft and develop them in time to surround LMA and Kawhi with them, as LMA will be a FA in 2 years, and Kawhi in 3, I believe there's a better chance finding either elite roleplayers or a star through free agency, thus I'm fine with your idea of creating some cap space for a player now with the view of securing a max slot for next summer as well, rounding off the team.

That won't round out the team, though. Let's assume for a second that they find a way to get someone like Clarkson this year and Ibaka next year. This would be their rotation:

PG: Clarkson, Parker
SG: Green,
SF: Leonard
PF Ibaka
C: Aldridge

That's not going to be a great team unless you can fill in those gaps with cheap, young players with upside. You'd rather it look something like this:

PG: Clarkson, Parker
SG: Green, [Winner of the competition between Simmons, the 29th pick in this draft and a couple other free-agent signees]
SF: Leonard, [Winner of the competition between Anderson, the 29th pick in this draft, Bertans, Dangubic and another signee or two]
PF: Ibaka, [Winner of competition between Bertans, LJC, Lalanne, and a room-exception signee]
C: Aldrdige. [Winner of the competition between Boban, Lalanne, Ndoye, Milutinov and the room-exception signee]

You don't just pencil in guys to take those roles. You bring them in, coach 'em up and let them duke it out to decide who, if any of them, can take the spot. This process takes years, and it's one the Spurs have neglected since 2013. It requires roster spots, minutes and the willingness to cut ties and move on.

[SAGirl]

Wishing for Tim and Manu to retire so you can enjoy the marvellous future of Cady Lallane, Youssou N'Doye, Davis Bertans, Simmons, etc.?

I've heard it all now.
The sooner you embrace that it's time to move on and rebuild, the sooner you can move on and rebuild. I don't want a a Kobe like retirement tour at this point.

[LakerHater]

Jus readin the title & nothin else, I'd havta agree!

[Gervin44Silas13]

We must have different definitions for the word mediocre. I'll stick with the dictionary version: "of only ordinary or moderate quality; not very good"

To me, that describes a team around .500 or worse that barely makes the playoffs or misses the playoffs altogether.

So the '91-96 Spurs were not mediocre, they were a good team, but not title-worthy.

And I think the Spurs for the next few seasons, barring something unforseen, will be at that level, too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


1991 Golden State we got our asses handed to by RUN TMC 1st Round

1992 Suns Spurs banged up 2nd Round

1993 Suns Tark as Coach Lucas takes over great Playoff run since 1990 to Beat Blazers

1994 Jazz we could never beat these fuckers even with Rodman

1995 Rockets Choke job WCF

1996 Jazz Malone and Stockton again 2nd Round

1997 Missed Playoffs

Fans wont get used to this we've been to spoiled

[SAGirl]

In 2013, the 10-15 of the roster (by total minutes) was De Colo, Bonner, Blair, Mills, Joseph and Baynes. Besides Bonner, those were all prospects or young guys who played or ended up playing bigger roles. This past season, the bottom six players who ended the season on the roster were Manu, Simmons, Boban, Martin, Bonner and Miller. That's a huge, huge difference in terms of the team's priorities. That's the difference between a team that grew into a champion and a team that's moribund.

Thanks for taking the time to lay it out so well. :tu I agree. Spurs let the ball drop between 2013-15. The one young player with potential to be a rotation guy that developed through their pipeline in that span (2013-2015) they let go bc they didn't want to waive Ayers or Daye for him (Jamychal Green). J.Green had looked better than both guys in SL and I bet he was kicking their ass in training camp. Talk about our need for younger athletic bigs this season, he was one. He probably would have taken the 1st year guaranteed/2nd year unguaranteed deal if they had offered it to him before he became a d'league star and other teams got in the bidding war for him. I think they learned from that debacle and that is why they went after Simmons with the same kind of deal b4 he broke out. It was a worthy gamble. I think maybe Ndoye is developing in that mold if he has a good showing in SL and Cady was already a d'league all star and can push to join the team like Deshaun Thomas. If these guys have a good summer and training camp they should join the team for asset retention as we can't afford to let any other cheap development projects go to waste and join other teams.

This season Spurs realized that they needed to replenish their youth and talent pool again. The got worthy prospects in Anderson/Boban/Simmons/RayMac, but obviously rookies and youngsters were not going to contribute in significant roles in their first seasons with the team, even in the best case scenario. We should be happy at least 3 of those 4 flashed enough potential to be retained. Still we had way too many old guys this season, as you pointed out, in spots 12-15 (Bonner, Kmart, AMiller). I liked the Miller pickup bc he's a really saavy old vet as they say. I think (and hope) that he had things to teach Anderson, Simmons and even Kawhi, as he's a guy who doesn't rely on explosiveness at all, but is smart, crafty, and knows how to find players in good spots. I think he was a role model personally, and a mentor more than intended to be a factor in the postseason. I really liked that pick up in that limited role bc that meant Pop was looking for mentors and teachers for the young project players that he has, and Pop loved A.Miller, glowingly stating he wished Miller was 30, so I think: 1. Pop is still looking for a good PG of the future; 2. he probably encouraged the younger players to soak up what they could from Miller.

Cutting ties with RayMac was maybe premature, but I assume they took the approach you described. Simmons flashed more talent, even if he's still a project and both are guards, so they let Ray go. Ray was the steadier player, with better ballhandling, but with less potential to be anything more than what he was IMO. Where they dropped the ball was keeping Ayers and Daye in 2013-15 over J.Green and not getting anything for Cojo, bc it was foreseeable they were not going to be able to keep him and his agent had likely destinations cooked up for CoJo from the get go. (RayMac got SAC a low 2nd round pick, we could have gotten a better 2nd round pick at least for Cojo or a foreign prospect), but whatever, I am sidetracking myself.


The difference is time and competition. Those guys were all together for years, and they were able to compete against each other and others for their spots. They didn't sign Green and go "All right, we're good." He was part of a series of guys brought in that started with dudes like Bogans and James Anderson. You had Blair, and McDyess, and Gooden, and Ratliff and a host of other guys before Diaw and Splitter took hold. The PGs had each other and a list of other small guards like Ford and Mason to take compete against. The Spurs don't have that now. They came in with 15 guaranteed contracts. They didn't keep guys like Green, and the rest of their call-ups recently have been dudes like Shannon Brown and Reggie Williams. You'll never improve if you stay complacent...
You don't just pencil in guys to take those roles. You bring them in, coach 'em up and let them duke it out to decide who, if any of them, can take the spot. This process takes years, and it's one the Spurs have neglected since 2013. It requires roster spots, minutes and the willingness to cut ties and move on.

And it's also why I posted somewhere that rebuilding through the draft takes time, but a team with Kawhi, LMA, Danny, Boban, Anderson and a couple of good FA picked up this offseason will not be in the lottery IMO, specially if those couple of complementary players are young and capable of still improving--which should appease all those Kawhi fans that are anti-tank. Anyways, you hope a few other guys do develop as well (the kind we haven't seen yet, the Bertans, Cadys, etc. of the world who may join us this offseason).

[Horry Hipcheck]

OKC kept a team that couldn't win a championship, or even get close to one, and they're doing quite well.



I believe everyone who'd expect a team with a top 5 and a top 15 NBA players on the roster to tank is beyond delusional. Wasting a year where Kawhi would have a legitimate chance to be MVP so you can develop the scrubs that LJC, Lallane, Bertans and Simmons are? Kawhi may be quiet but he won't stand for this. I don't think the Spurs will carry too many rookies and trying to develop them at the same time. I'll believe it when I see it.



Unless they sign bad players to contracts into 2017 cap space, the supposed one year of pain won't increase or decrease their chances of being a contender past 2017.


:lol The idea of rewarding a max FA signing like Aldridge for coming to the Spurs by wasting his second season under contract with Kawhi not even in his prime yet

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs couldn't win a Championship with this team, do any of you really believe that the addition of players like Marvin Williams or Thomas Robinson will put them over the hump? So if they can't win it all next year, why piss around with half measures?

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are. If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility. That's a lot more than a half measure. The Spurs have turned guys into reclamation projects before, so it's worth a bit of money to take a chance. It seems far better than throwing money at guys who are commanding a lot of money based on buzz.

Role players are essential for title teams, and they aren't always vets. You need a Jaren or Stephen Jackson or a Cory Joseph or an Aron Baynes or some combination of more than one to contribute in order to have a shot in the playoffs. Adding guys who are young and want to win and jettisoning old guys who are just taking up space gives you a chance. If you think you need more than that on a team with two all-stars then you probably need to consider getting rid of the all-stars.

[GSH]

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are.

Truth? I'm a little shell-shocked at what I saw out of Tim in the latter part of the regular season, and the playoffs. If he could somehow come back like he was in the '15 playoffs, it might change the calculus. But it would be a miracle, considering. Much as I hate thinking it, I think the wheels have finally come off. Behind him, the Spurs had two PF's and Boban. That's a major hole, and I think the Thunder's success is going to start a new Big Man Arms Race in the offseason. That's going to make that hole even harder to fill.

Parker is still a good point guard, but not a great point guard anymore. I think he has now played the 5th most NBA minutes of any PG in history, plus all the summer ball. My gut tells me that his trajectory isn't upwards. One of my pet stats is FTA/100 possessions (or FTA/FGA). At his prime, Parker got the benefit of 7.5-8 FTA/100. This season, that was down to 4.4 and in the playoffs he only took 2.8. That's significant - some people will understand why, and the others I'll never convince. But it's not the fault of the refs. It's about what kind of threat he represents on the court, and it means he's going to struggle to get his teammates easier shots. That's sort of a big deal for a PG.

Oh, and I saw that picture of Diaw looking like Fat Bastard, 4 months after their last Championship. He's an X-Factor kind of guy, but he wasn't so much this season. People kept saying that he was saving it for the playoffs like Robert Horry. That didn't happen. He played more like Fat Bastard.






If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility.

That's this season - I'm thinking about next season. When players get as old as some of ours, they drop off. It's sort of like gravity. They've defied it, to a great extent, for a long time. But I think we saw evidence of it catching up this season. So the question is, "What will those guys look like at the end of the next 82-game season?" Will they be better? I don't think anyone thinks that. Will they be as good? That's not what my gut says, if I'm being honest. I agree the gap between the Spurs and the Thunder in the playoffs was relatively small. I'm saying it will be bigger next year. If the goal is to "contend", that's fine. If the goal is to win Championships, it's a problem. Opinions are worth what you pay for them, but that's my two cents.


Role players are essential for title teams, and they aren't always vets. You need a Jaren or Stephen Jackson or a Cory Joseph or an Aron Baynes or some combination of more than one to contribute in order to have a shot in the playoffs.

Yep. I'm not one who daydreams about having our own private All-Star team. But it helps to have role players who are at the top of their game, or near it. Former starters who are on their last legs aren't always the same thing. I know you know this - but if you're going to bring in several new role players, it's going to take some time for everyone to get comfortable playing with each other. That also doesn't make me believe we'll be seeing #6 next season.

Put that all together, and it's a pretty good case for taking one season for a real re-build.

[GSH]

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, particularly even trading up if possible. But you seem to think the Spurs are far worse than they are. If you could have replaced Boris Diaw or David West with someone who was plus a few points per game, are the Spurs still playing now? Given the margins of the games, you have to think it's at least a possibility. That's a lot more than a half measure. The Spurs have turned guys into reclamation projects before, so it's worth a bit of money to take a chance.


One more thing. Diaw got paid $7.5M this season, based on what he did the year before. Those replacements who are a few points better? Next season they're probably going to cost what? $10M? $12M? And that only helps if Tim/Tony/Manu are just as good as they were this season.

And if the Spurs are going to bank on lower-cost "reclamation projects", then bring 'em in and play the hell out of them... during the re-build year.


And now I talk too fucking much, too. I'll take my own advice and shut up about it.

[Obstructed_View]

Truth? I'm a little shell-shocked at what I saw out of Tim in the latter part of the regular season, and the playoffs. If he could somehow come back like he was in the '15 playoffs, it might change the calculus. But it would be a miracle, considering. Much as I hate thinking it, I think the wheels have finally come off. Behind him, the Spurs had two PF's and Boban. That's a major hole, and I think the Thunder's success is going to start a new Big Man Arms Race in the offseason. That's going to make that hole even harder to fill.

Parker is still a good point guard, but not a great point guard anymore. I think he has now played the 5th most NBA minutes of any PG in history, plus all the summer ball. My gut tells me that his trajectory isn't upwards. One of my pet stats is FTA/100 possessions (or FTA/FGA). At his prime, Parker got the benefit of 7.5-8 FTA/100. This season, that was down to 4.4 and in the playoffs he only took 2.8. That's significant - some people will understand why, and the others I'll never convince. But it's not the fault of the refs. It's about what kind of threat he represents on the court, and it means he's going to struggle to get his teammates easier shots. That's sort of a big deal for a PG.

Oh, and I saw that picture of Diaw looking like Fat Bastard, 4 months after their last Championship. He's an X-Factor kind of guy, but he wasn't so much this season. People kept saying that he was saving it for the playoffs like Robert Horry. That didn't happen. He played more like Fat Bastard.







That's this season - I'm thinking about next season. When players get as old as some of ours, they drop off. It's sort of like gravity. They've defied it, to a great extent, for a long time. But I think we saw evidence of it catching up this season. So the question is, "What will those guys look like at the end of the next 82-game season?" Will they be better? I don't think anyone thinks that. Will they be as good? That's not what my gut says, if I'm being honest. I agree the gap between the Spurs and the Thunder in the playoffs was relatively small. I'm saying it will be bigger next year. If the goal is to "contend", that's fine. If the goal is to win Championships, it's a problem. Opinions are worth what you pay for them, but that's my two cents.



Yep. I'm not one who daydreams about having our own private All-Star team. But it helps to have role players who are at the top of their game, or near it. Former starters who are on their last legs aren't always the same thing. I know you know this - but if you're going to bring in several new role players, it's going to take some time for everyone to get comfortable playing with each other. That also doesn't make me believe we'll be seeing #6 next season.

Put that all together, and it's a pretty good case for taking one season for a real re-build.

First of all, the Spurs have two of the top players in the league in their starting five. If someone in the Spurs' organization even suggested rebuilding for a year they should be fired immediately. It would make more sense to say you were going to offer a max contract to Lebron James than to just give up a year.

There are a lot of free agents that would fit in with the Spurs, probably some that will be frustrated with not being able to win where they are, and you never know what can happen at that point, especially if the world actually believes that Curry's injury is the only thing keeping the Dubs from winning the next five titles.

There's a lot you can do when you have Aldridge and Leonard on your front line. But you can't just shit away a year of their primes.

[GSH]

First of all, the Spurs have two of the top players in the league in their starting five. If someone in the Spurs' organization even suggested rebuilding for a year they should be fired immediately. It would make more sense to say you were going to offer a max contract to Lebron James than to just give up a year.

There are a lot of free agents that would fit in with the Spurs, probably some that will be frustrated with not being able to win where they are, and you never know what can happen at that point, especially if the world actually believes that Curry's injury is the only thing keeping the Dubs from winning the next five titles.

There's a lot you can do when you have Aldridge and Leonard on your front line. But you can't just shit away a year of their primes.


Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.

[Obstructed_View]

Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.

I'd submit that the Spurs have lost virtually every series they've ever lost at that position since David Robinson retired. Funny how you don't really need a center that's better than Fabricio Oberto or Tiago Splitter in order to have everything kind of click together.

[Vito Corleone]

1991 Golden State we got our asses handed to by RUN TMC 1st Round

1992 Suns Spurs banged up 2nd Round

1993 Suns Tark as Coach Lucas takes over great Playoff run since 1990 to Beat Blazers

1994 Jazz we could never beat these fuckers even with Rodman

1995 Rockets Choke job WCF

1996 Jazz Malone and Stockton again 2nd Round

1997 Missed Playoffs

Fans wont get used to this we've been to spoiled

If San Antonio could have kept the 89-90 spurs team together and added Elden Campbell instead of Dwayne Schensis That team wins a title within 2 to 3 years.

That team was destroyed by a series of bad moves by a crappy GM AKA Bob Bass along with a little bad luck.

Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Sean Elliott, Terry Cummings, and Big Dave was a force. All it needed was a little time.

We let Rod walk for absolutely nothing, Willie's bones start to crumble, and Cummings tears his ACL. Then there was the hiring of so many bad coaches.

But all that stuff happened created the situation where we get Pop and RC and draft Duncan, the rest is history.

[Gervin44Silas13]

If San Antonio could have kept the 89-90 spurs team together and added Elden Campbell instead of Dwayne Schensis That team wins a title within 2 to 3 years.

That team was destroyed by a series of bad moves by a crappy GM AKA Bob Bass along with a little bad luck.

Rod Strickland, Willie Anderson, Sean Elliott, Terry Cummings, and Big Dave was a force. All it needed was a little time.

We let Rod walk for absolutely nothing, Willie's bones start to crumble, and Cummings tears his ACL. Then there was the hiring of so many bad coaches.

But all that stuff happened created the situation where we get Pop and RC and draft Duncan, the rest is history.


That 89-90 team was my favorite team....we had the nucleus going in to that 1991 season, tehen we got shitnuts, sydney bone spurs green, and David hasbeen Greenwood

Willie and his stupid stress fractures he couldn't stay put and couldn't stop inseminating women
Rod got into a stupid nite club fight and broke his wrist..... when we lost him people were bitching about the true point guard position!! LMAO!!
David Windgate was never the same after the phony rape charge that had to fuck with his pysche
1992 TC injures his knee in a freaking pickup game during the off season!!!! FML

Brown, Bass and Tarkainan (that was a fucken joke....he wanted to make Lloyd Daniels the focus of his offense)

What I like about Lucas is he implemented that fire.....

Funny how Pop weaved in and out from the Spurs to Golden State then back to the Spurs

[SAGirl]

Pointless to argue, since I'm sure the Spurs' FO will see it just about the way you say. I hope one of those disgruntled FA's is a serviceable 7-footer. And I hope they bring in someone to work with Boban (especially to teach him the PnR) so that he can be a consistent backup. Ultimately, the Spurs lost the OKC series in the middle.
Yup. I don't think there will be any tanking on purpose. For project players the will bring Bertans and Cady very likely, maybe someone else. I think if someone falls to 29 that they like they get a rookie, if not they will stash again. Maybe they try to move up in the draft, Boston and Philly have a lot of picks. I am just pessimistic we can move up bc we don't have any trade assets to achieve that, unless the Spurs look to deal Tony Parker. That's too drastic, I think. Is Pop willing? I doubt they deal Danny, the only other guy they could spare to move up, but they once dealt G.Hill and they loved him. So, I will just say that it seems unlikely they can find a way to move up without giving up a player they need. Hill was a backup mostly and when he was dealt Manu and Tony were still elite players. Now they are not, that makes it unlikely they would be willing to part with Danny. How likely is Pop to deal Tony? If Timmy and Manu retire, I think they should consider it. They need to get younger anyways and Tony is not part of some big 3 with LMA and Kawhi.

For the rest, they keep their cheap young projects. (Simmons, KA, and Boban--who will get paid, but bc of the Arenas rule I have been told it will not be an exorbitant amount.)

The one veteran I think they will try to trade out or waive, stretch, whatever is Boris. There are threads about him already, so no need to add much to it, but his disappearing act was not just against OKC. He was missing most of the season too, and he wasn't even playing well against the Grizzlies. Plus, I know you and half the forum dwellers don't like him but Anderson and Boris have duplicitous skills. If Boris is kept he will just be a security blanket for Pop at this stage bc Anderson averaged more minutes than Boris after the AS break, and at 7.5 mill that's a damn expensive security blanket. What's more is that Pop was already losing the desire to play said security blanket, and wasn't afraid to give minutes to Anderson, who should be better as he matures and continue to improve his game, meanwhile Boris will be worse as he ages and continues to value the good life over basketball. They will be better off spending Boris' 7.5 mill plus some cap on someone else with different skills. Boban will be paid so maybe some of that goes to Boban, still leaves cap for someone else.

The rest pretty much stays the same, unless Tim and Manu retire. In which case they probably will get more aggressive in FA. I don't have a lot of ideas on FA bc I am very bad with the cap + I don't watch enough of other teams to know or even have an opinion on different FA possibilities, specially when talking about role players, but that is probably where suggestions like K-Storm, Chinook, TD 21 or others have different possibilities. I would prioritize a big like you. I think Boban can get a lot of offense for the bench and he can play paired with D west, Cady, Bertans, or Anderson as partners. There will be a lot of young frontcourt players to play him with and all have range so it's perfect for the bench. It's really the starting center they need to look at. After that they look at guards.

[GSH]

I'd submit that the Spurs have lost virtually every series they've ever lost at that position since David Robinson retired. Funny how you don't really need a center that's better than Fabricio Oberto or Tiago Splitter in order to have everything kind of click together.


Ahhh shit... you're gonna resort to logic and facts? :lol


No, I understand what you're saying. As for the C position, there's no substitute for size. He doesn't have to be a super-star, but he has to be able to grind for position, and he has to be able to absorb contact and still finish the chip-shots. Able to hold his position on screens and seals. You know all that. Fabbs was under-appreciated, and Tiago (when he was healthy) was vastly under-rated by pretty much everyone but the most knowledgeable fans. I'd take either one of them, at that stage of their careers, and be happy. Both LMA and Kawhi become much more dangerous, with "that guy" in the middle.

Look - all I'm saying is that I think that if the Spurs could stand 100% pat, and bring back every single player from this season, they wouldn't be as good as after another 82-game season as they were at the end of this one. I think Tim is worn out. And I think Tony/Manu are declining. Would you agree with that much? So upgrading Diaw and West to players "a few points better" would still not make the difference, because the other positions will be weaker.

I think the days of Tim/Manu/Tony are over. And Diaw looks like he doesn't have the fire to condition the way he would need to. That means that they have multiple holes to fill. To me, that says that trying to augment this year's roster isn't going to make a Championship team. My opinion - if they take one year to re-build, they can put together a much stronger roster for 17-18, than if they do things the way you suggest.

This year, I thought the Spurs had a legit chance to win it all - so a second round exit isn't crushing. It's just the nature of competition. But if (just give me the "if") next year's roster has most of the same players, but a couple of upgrades for Diaw and West, and their ceiling is a second-round exit? I think they would be better served for the long run by getting some ping-pong balls, and having enough cap space to pursue a top-level player, plus another solid journeyman role player, and THEN find a couple of those overlooked gems that will sign for cheap.

So let me ask you this. You say it would be inexcusable to piss off a year of Kawhi and LMA - and I understand that. But how do you feel about pissing off 5-6 years of their careers on second round or CF exits, because of a lack of talent/youth surrounding them? It's a balancing act. I think the Spurs are already there - you don't. But what I'm saying is that far out there. Even if your way is right, it's close. Like I said, I have no doubt that the FO won't go for a one-year re-boot, so I hope you're right.

I really never intended to turn it into an argument.

[Obstructed_View]

Look - all I'm saying is that I think that if the Spurs could stand 100% pat, and bring back every single player from this season, they wouldn't be as good as after another 82-game season as they were at the end of this one. I think Tim is worn out. And I think Tony/Manu are declining. Would you agree with that much?


I agree 100 percent, but it's the next step where we diverge. I think the Spurs broke down at the end of the year. I think Duncan and Manu and Diaw and West are all done, and Parker is not giving the Spurs what they need. All those things became a trainwreck that got them booted out of the playoffs. But remember that they lost in six games, three or four of them close games, to a team that's currently kicking the shit out of Golden State. With your best two players in their primes, a pretty solid bench, and some cap room, I don't see why you couldn't make a couple of moves and end up with a team that's better than the team that the Spurs were two weeks ago. Will they win 65+ games? Probably not, but they will be better equipped for a playoff run.

[SAGirl]

LMA doesn't have 5-6 years. He possibly has 2-3 at this level. That's I think the extent of his contract anyways. Spurs are in win now mode. You have maybe too much of a negative view on our youngest players. The Tim that needs to be replaced is not the Tim we knew who is a HOF player. It's a Tim that was hobbled, couldn't score in the post or on PNR, doesn't have a jumper, can still pass but his passing is taken away when they can double his targets off him, misses open layups etc. There are role players that will be better than 41 yrs old no knees Tim. You said it yourself a healthy Tiago Splitter would be better for us than no knees Tim. We need a solid role player who is not going to break down b4 the season is over. (Tiago is not an option bc he's even less healthy than Tim).

Hah! Manu wasn't even scoring much in the latter part of the season and the postseason. I though his defense is probably what will miss the most between him and Smmons who still gets lost defensively, plus Manu gambles a lot on defense but it pays off for him. However you saw Manus defense in the playoffs. He was terrible against Dion Waiters. It's possible Simmons can become a better SG within the next season if he improves his handles a bit. And if not Simmons, someone else.

There are any number of guards that are better options for the bench than Manu at this point too, in case Simmons flames out. In fact if we were to play Boban as an offensive focus, maybe you could still play Manu, or another guard. The Manu that needs to be replaced is not HoF Manu, is the role player Manu.

Tony to me is the most difficult guy bc he still has an important role and one that cannot be handed to just anyone. Still Pop needs to keep an eye out for options.

Again, I think you are too fatalistic. I hope our young guys don't think their chances are over bc the big 3 need to move on. We just need the right role players and a couple of our projects to become reliable, which should happen as younger players get experience. The same way it happened with Cojo, Baynes, Tiago, DAnny, etc. The younger guys will be better. In fact, one has to hope for some internal improvement and that is yet another reason to shed the dead weight. The over the hill players get to the postseason and are worse. Meanwhile in the past (2013-2014) when the Spurs relied a lot more on younger players they improved as the season wore on and they were better in the postseason. OKC young players are playing better in the postseason, they learned and improved. We have to rely more on younger players too. It's not just replacing Diaw or D west. A Boban who had played all season (and been relied to win games, not just garbage time Boban) was not going to go into hiding in the postseason. Anderson was a rest provider for Kawhi this postseason. It's not like he was involved in the offense. He was standing in a corner. They could have run plays to get him on mismatches but that would have meant they were going to run the offense through him and this is what you and others don't understand. "These playoffs weren't for him!" :pop:

Haven't we seen that b4? He had a marginal role. Maybe Pop should have thought to get him more involved, specially when Manu and Patty were absent, but Pop didn't do that bc it wasn't his time. Maybe Pop deemed he wasn't ready, but just bc he didn't contribute offensively doesn't mean he couldn't or won't in the future. It just wasn't his role this season. Like him there are others, Boban, maybe Simmons who will be able to do more in the future. Only "these playoffs weren't for them." It wasn't their time. So, bottom line, we have guys that can do more, and hopefully will improve, but some older guys who weren't pulling their weight and they need to be replaced.

You add some FA to this group and they will continue competing. 2017 they can still go after a big FA. + a criticism of tanking: you don't want your young players to pick up losing habits. They should always try to win every game that's how they improve.

[ernest787]

The Spurs were contending for a championship the last 4 years and were attempting to maximize the final seasons of 2 future Hall of Famers.

Would it have been awesome to have a stock pile of youth that was built up over that 4 year period that could step in and continue the high level of play? Yes.. but they kind of have that with Kawhi / LMA / Danny.

The bottom of the roster isn't chock full of young guys, but when you realize your final window for Tim Duncan and Manu is 3-4 years, you take guys that you think are going to be able to help you win now. They did that. It worked initially and they went to 2 finals and got another ring. Unfortunately, it finally fell apart.

The thing is the Spurs are in a better position right now than most teams have even been after losing 2 Hall of Famers that lead the team to multiple championships.

Kawhi / LMA / Green / Parker is a really good starting group that can easily win 50 games if they can just build up the bench and get some pieces to click. I do agree that now they are going to need to try and maximize the young talent and hope that over the next 3-4 seasons they are able to build guys like they did 10 years ago. If it pans out then we will be right back in the title picture in no time. If it doesn't, we are going to be a playoff team that is on the fringe of being an actual contender.

Either way, this run and the run going forward it something that has rarely if ever been accomplished. It's fun to be a Spurs fan.

[GSH]

I agree 100 percent, but it's the next step where we diverge. I think the Spurs broke down at the end of the year. I think Duncan and Manu and Diaw and West are all done, and Parker is not giving the Spurs what they need. All those things became a trainwreck that got them booted out of the playoffs. But remember that they lost in six games, three or four of them close games, to a team that's currently kicking the shit out of Golden State. With your best two players in their primes, a pretty solid bench, and some cap room, I don't see why you couldn't make a couple of moves and end up with a team that's better than the team that the Spurs were two weeks ago. Will they win 65+ games? Probably not, but they will be better equipped for a playoff run.


Pretty damn compelling argument. I got nothin' to add. :tu

[dabom]

GSH wants to become a lottery team? Wow I heard it all now. :lmao

That fucking cuck can suck a bag of dicks. We will have the best top 2 player and maybe MVP player in the league going into his prime and you want ping pong balls. :lmao

[GSH]

GSH wants to become a lottery team? Wow I heard it all now. :lmao

That fucking cuck can suck a bag of dicks. We will have the best top 2 player and maybe MVP player in the league going into his prime and you want ping pong balls. :lmao


LOL... that gray name really chaps your ass, doesn't it? I mean, there are guys here with thousands fewer posts than you who are bolded.

It's hard to understand. You contribute so many good basketball takes. It's really not fair. :cry

[DMC]

Duncan sure looked like he knew it was his last game when he held up a finger to the OKC fans in Game 6, so clearing cap space looks like it's going to be forced onto the Spurs.
I didn't see that. Which finger did he hold up?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

In an off-season with a mediocre FA crop and a huge increase in capspace the last thing the Spurs would do is over-commit to capspace and jump into the deep-end with all the ravenous sharks. The only reason they'd do this is if they have a solid commitment from a premier FA (like Horford or Conley) they really want who fills a need. All of that is highly unlikely.

It's far more likely that the FO makes a couple of smart, low-cost FA/trade moves, brings in a couple of youngsters, calls it an off-season, and waits for 2017.

Something like Mills and flotsam for MCW and Plumlee, re-sign Boban, bring over a foreign stash, add the rookie at #29, win 53 games, go out in the second round.

Then you have Parker's expiring, another cap increase when other teams clogged their cap in 2016, and a shot at something meaningful in FA... and you might just have developed a couple of gems in the rough in MCW and Plumlee. ;)

[DMC]

If Tim comes back I'm going to make fun of him all season.

[GSH]

In an off-season with a mediocre FA crop and a huge increase in capspace the last thing the Spurs would do is over-commit to capspace and jump into the deep-end with all the ravenous sharks. The only reason they'd do this is if they have a solid commitment from a premier FA (like Horford or Conley) they really want who fills a need. All of that is highly unlikely.

It's far more likely that the FO makes a couple of smart, low-cost FA/trade moves, brings in a couple of youngsters, calls it an off-season, and waits for 2017.

Something like Mills and flotsam for MCW and Plumlee, re-sign Boban, bring over a foreign stash, add the rookie at #29, win 53 games, go out in the second round.

Then you have Parker's expiring, another cap increase when other teams clogged their cap in 2016, and a shot at something meaningful in FA... and you might just have developed a couple of gems in the rough in MCW and Plumlee. ;)


LOL... the only big difference between that and what I'm talking about is instead of winning 53 games, they wind up winning 40 games and snagging the 12 pick for 2017, like Utah did this season. Or maybe lightning strikes (again) and one of their 7 ping-pong balls gets them a Top 3 Pick in 2017. Keep everything else in your scenario the same, but add a solid rookie in 2017. See, I could live with one 40-win season for that.

This year, Utah's 12 pick could get them Denzel Valentine, who I would have loved to see come to the Spurs. Some people are saying that Denver will trade their 15 and 19 picks for Utah's 12, so they can get Valentine. That would give Utah 2 Top 20 picks, in exchange for their 40-win season. If you really believe that the alternative is 53 wins, and a second round exit? The draft pick(s) are sure inviting.

But, yeah, if Conley or Horford are possible, that changes everything.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

LOL... the only big difference between that and what I'm talking about is instead of winning 53 games, they wind up winning 40 games and snagging the 12 pick for 2017, like Utah did this season. Or maybe lightning strikes (again) and one of their 7 ping-pong balls gets them a Top 3 Pick in 2017. Keep everything else in your scenario the same, but add a solid rookie in 2017. See, I could live with one 40-win season for that.

This year, Utah's 12 pick could get them Denzel Valentine, who I would have loved to see come to the Spurs. Some people are saying that Denver will trade their 15 and 19 picks for Utah's 12, so they can get Valentine. That would give Utah 2 Top 20 picks, in exchange for their 40-win season. If you really believe that the alternative is 53 wins, and a second round exit? The draft pick(s) are sure inviting.

But, yeah, if Conley or Horford are possible, that changes everything.

I think you underestimated the number of wins Kawhi and LMA will rack up, no matter who is around them.

We basically agree, I just doubt a team with those guys dips to .500.

[GSH]

I think you underestimated the number of wins Kawhi and LMA will rack up, no matter who is around them.

We basically agree, I just doubt a team with those guys dips to .500.


Out of this whole conversation, that probably makes the most sense to me. You're right, I'm wrong. I really doubt that the Spurs could fall as low as 40 wins, unless one of those guys was injured. And they would have to get a few games below .500 to be sure of getting a lottery pick. They really would have to intentionally tank games to fall that far, wouldn't they?

Damn it must be depressing to be a Knicks or Bucks fan. A 40-win season sounds like a tank-job here. For those guys it's just business as usual.

[SAGirl]

Out of this whole conversation, that probably makes the most sense to me. You're right, I'm wrong. I really doubt that the Spurs could fall as low as 40 wins, unless one of those guys was injured. And they would have to get a few games below .500 to be sure of getting a lottery pick. They really would have to intentionally tank games to fall that far, wouldn't they?

Damn it must be depressing to be a Knicks or Bucks fan. A 40-win season sounds like a tank-job here. For those guys it's just business as usual.
I have been trying to tell you that too but too many words about too many projects got my message lost I think. You'd have to want to lose games on purpose. We don't even need a star player in FA except the replacement for Tony. That will be uphill. Tim and Manu can retire and we can pick up suitable replacements in FA and be right back bc they had a very small role. It was so small in fact that both git injured at the same time and we kept on winning. Now the playoffs are another matter, which is why we'd want to pick up a couple of veterans and not rely entirely on LMA/Kawhi/Danny + projects. You just pick up some veterans who are not over the hill, and hope for the improvement of players who have already played in the NBA. Cady, Bertans and Co or anyone we haven't yet seen are a bonus if they can contribute, but a team like that will not be in the lottery unless the big 2 go through some injuries.

This is the truth, same as I tell you how hopeful I am in a younger version of our team, I will admit this, it will be a top heavy team unless those FA pick ups have Diaw 2.0 like seasons or at least one of the young 3 (to avoid repeating their names, you know so they are) makes a huge leap in win shares or whatever and I am not counting on that. I hope they improve but I am not coming up with "_____ is going to be incredible" Nostradamus like predictions next season. If one of the big 2 is injured for a big part of the season we'll be like the 2015 Thunder, miss the postseason but just have Cameron Payne to show for it. :lol I bet they are wishing they were healthy and didn't miss the postseason (though I will say Payne is very young still and has flashed some talent, he may improve in the next couple of seasons too).