Kawhi Leonard named 1st team All-NBA; Aldridge made 3rd team All-NBA

[SpursFan86]

http://i.imgur.com/9aBg1Qm.jpg

[SASdynasty!]

Deandre Jordan, Demarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond. What a sad era for Centers.

[SASdynasty!]

In other news, Duncan and TP9 still getting love.

[Robz4000]

apalisoc_9 get in here bruh, you called it

[BatManu20]

Congrats to both. Well-deserved. Hopefully the first of many for Kawhi.
:claw :lma

[BatManu20]

Internet already melting down over Kawhi making 1st-Team over KD :lol

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Internet already melting dow that Kawhi made 1st-Team over KD :lol
The funny thing is that Kawhi over KD is like the 5th or 6th most controversial thing about the teams lmao

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Durant should have been first team

[apalisoc_9]

Wow Paul Millsap really got burned. I thought he was one of the 10 best players this year and I had him in my third team firmly. Third best two way player this year.

Deandre first team is well deserved.

I would have taken out George or Aldridge for Millsap.

Isiah over Thompson.

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi had a better RS than Durant tbh. Fans are just too stupid. Nigga is playing with a first teamer..

[apalisoc_9]

Anthony Davis losing money :lol

[BatManu20]

735910552518549504

735912276629164032

[BatManu20]

735911131659665409

735911160076083200

[BatManu20]

735912276629164032

[Obstructed_View]

Durant should have been first team

Somebody had to get credit for the Spurs' record being 12 games better than OKC's.

[apalisoc_9]

Somebody had to get credit for the Spurs' record being 12 games better than OKC's.

He also had a better RS. :lol

Stupid casuals :lok

[RD2191]

Congrats to both. Well-deserved. Hopefully the first of many for Kawhi.
:claw :lma

[RD2191]

Do people not really understand that there are 2 sides of the ball? I'd like to see how many points KD would score if he had to guard the other teams best player every night.

[Obstructed_View]

Hopefully Kawhi actually lives up to all the praise and accolades at some point.

[RD2191]

Hopefully Kawhi actually lives up to all the praise and accolades at some point.

Hopefully he won't be surrounded by dog shit next season.

[Obstructed_View]

Hopefully he won't be surrounded by dog shit next season.

If the Spurs won 59 games this year, he wouldn't be first team and probably wouldn't be DPOY. You can thank the dog shit for that.

[RD2191]

If the Spurs won 59 games this year, he wouldn't be first team and probably wouldn't be DPOY. You can thank the dog shit for that.

Who's to say? You're talking hypotheticals here. Fact is him and LMA carried the team the entire season. It's not their fault the dog shit surrounding them failed again.

[Robz4000]

If the Spurs won 59 games this year, he wouldn't be first team and probably wouldn't be DPOY. You can thank the dog shit for that.

They won 67 games in large part due to Kawhi's brilliance.

[Obstructed_View]

They won 67 games in large part due to Kawhi's brilliance.

And in larger part due to a really deep team and a great system.

[look_at_g_shred]

Who's to say? You're talking hypotheticals here. Fact is him and LMA carried the team the entire season. It's not their fault the dog shit surrounding them failed again.

[Robz4000]

And in larger part due to a really deep team and a great system.

Said system saw the bottom fall out of it sometime in mid February and never recovered. Not saying the team was a handicap, but if you take Kawhi off the team they fail to win 40 games.

[apalisoc_9]

And in larger part due to a really deep team and a great system.

Great system? Nigga the offense was Kawhi and Aldridge specially the last 40 games. :lol..

The playoffs was a clear indication that this team's depth is nowhere as good as people make it out to be

[look_at_g_shred]

Yup you can't put the blame on LMA and Kawhi. They held their own. We need better role players period.

[apalisoc_9]

If you took kawhi out of the current ISO and slow paced offense, this team would have cracked in the Regular season. Not to mention the defense was inflated in the first two months.

In actuality the defense had been up and down mostly due to personel. West-Diaw-Porker-mills..

Green shot terribly thr whole year :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Said system saw the bottom fall out of it sometime in mid February and never recovered. Not saying the team was a handicap, but if you take Kawhi off the team they fail to win 40 games.


Narratives and reputation bro. Everyone still assumes Parker-Duncan-Ginobili produce better than your average role player. Not to mention, People actuallyy think Diaw is still awesome etc. The only thing that was documented from a negative standpoint this year in terms of role players is Green shooting but in actual reality he was still more valuable than Porker-Mills-Diaw-West etc.

[Obstructed_View]

Said system saw the bottom fall out of it sometime in mid February and never recovered. Not saying the team was a handicap, but if you take Kawhi off the team they fail to win 40 games.

And if you replace Kawhi with Kevin Durant they probably win 66-70 games. I'm not saying Kawhi isn't good. I'm saying he's not, in my opinion, quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting. I love him, but I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league, and I roll my eyes when people act like it's a given that he is.

[RD2191]

I'm a huge salty faggot.

Agreed. That's all you had to say.

[RD2191]

And if you replace Kawhi with Kevin Durant they probably win 66-70 games. I'm not saying Kawhi isn't good. I'm saying he's not, in my opinion, quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting. I love him, but I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league, and I roll my eyes when people act like it's a given that he is.

KD had a better surrounding cast all season and they won 55 games. Not even sure where you're going with this.

[polandprzem]

And if you replace Kawhi with Kevin Durant they probably win 66-70 games. I'm not saying Kawhi isn't good. I'm saying he's not, in my opinion, quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting. I love him, but I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league, and I roll my eyes when people act like it's a given that he is.

The guy is top perimeter defender of all time and still he is threat on the offensive end. We can think of him changing places with Paul and CP3 or Durant or Curry but the teams are different and differently built.

[apalisoc_9]

KD had a better surrounding cast all season and they won 55 games. Not even sure where you're going with this.

Exactly

[Robz4000]

And if you replace Kawhi with Kevin Durant they probably win 66-70 games. I'm not saying Kawhi isn't good. I'm saying he's not, in my opinion, quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting. I love him, but I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league, and I roll my eyes when people act like it's a given that he is.

Best defender in the league by far, 45% 3-point shooter, greatest midrange game in the league, elite post player, solid court vision and playmaking, underrated dribble-drive, and still improving by leaps and bounds game by game. Not sure what else you want him to do; I agree he isn't the second best player in the league, but he's still Top 5 and the most important player on the team by far.

[Mugen]

:lol Deandre is a nice player and all but has no business being on the 1st team ahead of KD.....

[SpursFan86]

:lol Deandre is a nice player and all but has no business being on the 1st team ahead of KD.....

Well with the format being 2 guards/2 forwards/1 center, it's not like he beat out Durant for votes or anything. He was going up against guys like Cousins, Whiteside, etc.

Regardless, they really need to change the format to 2 backcourt players/3 frontcourt players...especially with how the game is changing and there being fewer and fewer centers.

[cd98]

KD has been the top playoff performer, but this is a regular season award. If you are taking the playoffs into consideration, then does Curry belong on 1st team? And Green wouldn't be on any of the three, right?

[$pursDynasty]

Well with the format being 2 guards/2 forwards/1 center, it's not like he beat out Durant for votes or anything. He was going up against guys like Cousins, Whiteside, etc.

Regardless, they really need to change the format to 2 backcourt players/3 frontcourt players...especially with how the game is changing and there being fewer and fewer centers.
This

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure what else you want him to do.

Sustain it. That's all.

[apalisoc_9]

Sustain it. That's all.

That has nothung to do with him deserving the awards this year

[timtonymanu]

Kawhi has the responsibility of guarding the best player while also scoring 20 PPG. Fucking morons in this thread.

[Obstructed_View]

That has nothung to do with him deserving the awards this year

I didn't say that it did. I answered a question.

[BatManu20]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjaArnGVEAE8AXo.jpg:large

[$pursDynasty]

Kawhi has the responsibility of guarding the best player while also scoring 20 PPG. Fucking morons in this thread.
Yea but to be honest the Spurs might be better served finding another scoring option next year, so that KL won't have to counted on to score 25+ but concentrate on defense and those 20 something points can be considered gravy instead of a necessity. I can't think of any player ever that had to be the team's top scorer as well as it's best defender (and as such guard the opposing teams best scoring threat at a shut down level). KL can't lead the team in scoring and shut down a monster like RW or KD as well. It was perfect when he could concentrate on d and his points were a bonus. Guarding the ultra elite requires way too much energy.

[timtonymanu]

Yea but to be honest the Spurs might be better served finding another scoring option next year, so that KL won't have to counted on to score 25+ but concentrate on defense and those 20 something points can be considered gravy instead of a necessity. I can't think of any player ever that had to be the team's top scorer as well as it's best defender (and as such guard the opposing teams best scoring threat at a shut down level). KL can't lead the team in scoring and shut down a monster like RW or KD as well. It was perfect when he could concentrate on d and his points were a bonus. Guarding the ultra elite requires way too much energy.

Agreed. The Spurs desperately need another scorer. Kawhi is an elite 2 way player but he can't keep doing it by himself. So posters expecting Kawhi to sustain both responsibilities are unrealistic.

[$pursDynasty]

KL as your 3rd offensive option is to be desired. Why while it won't happen now, if we could have gotten KD, let he and LMA score the points and let others defend.

[apalisoc_9]

Agreed. The Spurs desperately need another scorer. Kawhi is an elite 2 way player but he can't keep doing it by himself. So posters expecting Kawhi to sustain both responsibilities are unrealistic.

The natural progression is for him to score more and defend the best players occaionally. That can be done with a good penetrating pg and respectable defender

[apalisoc_9]

Green is an amazing defender. He will most likely progress to defending more Sfs..

[$pursDynasty]

The natural progression is for him to score more and defend the best players occaionally. That can be done with a good penetrating pg and respectable defender
Apo that might work I just figured it is easier to find a guy that can fill it up on offense than it is to find someone that can give us what KL can on defense. There are lots of scorers in the NBA but there aren't many could ever defend at the level that KL can.

[SAGirl]

Congrats to both. Well deserved. For long stretches really just the two of them were consistently making an impact. :claw:lma

[cjw]

Parker got one vote!

And who would have thought going into this year it would be Lillard on a depleted Portland team instead of Unibrow getting the All NBA spot and getting the Rose Rule bump.

[SPURt]

Do people not really understand that there are 2 sides of the ball? I'd like to see how many points KD would score if he had to guard the other teams best player every night.

This. Congrats to Kawhi! Outside of that, what the hell happened to the center position? DeAndre Jordan first team all NBA? :lol

[024]

Leonard is a great player and have exceeded all my expectations. I was hesitant to call him a top 10 player at the start of this season but he's definitely that now, maybe at #4 or #5. But let's not get carried away. If Durant and Leonard swapped teams, the Spurs would be the ones playing the Warriors right now. Durant is still a top 3 player and guarded Leonard very well when he needed to, forcing Leonard to shoot low percentage fade away jumpers over a 7 footer.

The voters took into account team records. OKC were up and down in the regular season (still, they won 55 games, which is pretty good).

[313]

Second round exit

[TD 21]

Said system saw the bottom fall out of it sometime in mid February and never recovered. Not saying the team was a handicap, but if you take Kawhi off the team they fail to win 40 games.

People always say that, but they never follow it up with who'd be replacing said player. They act as if the hole would remain blank or be filled by run of the mill backups. In reality, it would probably be something like a league average starter, with the remaining money potentially redistributed elsewhere.

The depth fell apart down the stretch, but it was good in the first half - two thirds of the season. Even when it fell off, great players have done more with less.

I don't blame Leonard or Aldridge, but in a year and half as the undisputed best player, Leonard has yet to have the kind of offensive performance a player of his magnitude should have, when they really need it.

[apalisoc_9]

Apo that might work I just figured it is easier to find a guy that can fill it up on offense than it is to find someone that can give us what KL can on defense. There are lots of scorers in the NBA but there aren't many could ever defend at the level that KL can.

Kawhi is already one of the most efficient scorers in the league. You wont find a better scorer than him unless its durant. Theres a lot of scorers in the league but very few are efficient.

The spurs already have one of the top 5 perinter defenders in the league in Danny Green so the easier progression is to go the Kobe-Jordan route and have him defend the best guys occasionally only.

KL is the best defender in the league but its painfully evident he was more important offensively. You dont try to downgrade to 50-40-90 scorer who scores 21 in 32 minutes. Thats retarded.

The Spurs just need a rollman and a Pg that can penetrate and defend. And hope that Tony can provide 11ppg of the bench.

[apalisoc_9]

People always say that, but they never follow it up with who'd be replacing said player. They act as if the hole would remain blank or be filled by run of the mill backups. In reality, it would probably be something like a league average starter, with the remaining money potentially redistributed elsewhere.

The depth fell apart down the stretch, but it was good in the first half - two thirds of the season. Even when it fell off, great players have done more with less.

I don't blame Leonard or Aldridge, but in a year and half as the undisputed lead player, Leonard has yet to have the kind of offensive performance a player of his magnitude should have, when they really need it.
I called it before the post-season started.

Mental fatigue and Physical fatigue is his biggest weakness. He starts falling once he hits the 33 minute marknor something and his game deteriorates. Hes not used to playing hugh level basketball more than that.

[TD 21]

I called it before the post-season started.

Mental fatigue and Physical fatigue is his biggest weakness. He starts falling once he hits the 33 minute marknor something and his game deteriorates. Hes not used to playing hugh level basketball more than that.

I do think there's something to that, but I also think he's not the same level of offensive player as the top player(s) on the other contenders. As efficient as he is, he's not as explosive a scorer as them and he's light years behind as a play maker.

This is why, if they're to win a championship in the Leonard-Aldridge era, it's still going to have to be on defense and somewhat by committee on offense.

[YGWHI]

I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league
Sadly, you aren't smart enough to realize that being #2 in MVP race or making 1st team doesn't mean he's the 2nd best player in the league.

Those are REGULAR SEASON awards/accolades and Kawhi had a better regular season than Durant and other SF/PFs.

Like many others posted in this thread, neither Curry is the MVP now, in the playoffs.

[TheRemix]

Despite not making it to the WCF kawhi must feel on top of the world right now. He's accomplished so much in the NBA already and he's only 24. Got maxed out, 2x DPOY, all-star, now All-NBA first team. On top of that he's going to be a father soon. Life must be good.

[Silver&Black]

:worthy: :claw

:worthy: :lma

[apalisoc_9]

I do think there's something to that, but I also think he's not the same level of offensive player as the top player(s) on the other contenders. As efficient as he is, he's not as explosive a scorer as them and he's light years behind as a play maker.

This is why, if they're to win a championship in the Leonard-Aldridge era, it's still going to have to be on defense and somewhat by committee on offense.

It's hard to gauge his scoring explosivnees because for one he never gets the opportunity to do so.

More importantly, I pointed out before the post season that this team was offensively challenged. We havent even seen kawhi on a pick and roll situation.

Ill conceded that kawhi usually defers in moments where the spurs have a good lead or when one of Parker or Aldridge are getting shots.

Another important thing to note is that explosive scoring for n SF that never handles the ball safe in moment of desepratetion (game 6 okc) etc is going tl have difficulties "taking over"

Durant, Lebron or all the top SF/SG in the league are either the main ballhandler or the second.

[YGWHI]

More importantly, I pointed out before the post season that this team was offensively challenged. We havent even seen kawhi on a pick and roll situation.

We saw a few Kawhi-LMA pick and rolls in the regular season and they looked really good.

It's not a matters of Kawhi's ball handling skills or court vision, he has improved at it and he's good enough to play it, but it's an issue of roles.

If Kawhi runs the pick and roll with LMA what's Parker's role? In the corner? Should be, but we know that Pop, neither Parker, are ready to do it.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I'm sure Kawhi would be willing to give up his first team all NBA for the chance to take his team out of first or second round.

[apalisoc_9]

We saw a few Kawhi-LMA pick and rolls in the regular season and they looked really good.

It's not a matters of Kawhi's ball handling skills or court vision, he has improved a lot at it, but it's an issue of roles.

If Kawhi runs the pick and roll with LMA what's Parker's role? In the corner? Should be, but we know that Pop, neither Parker, are ready to do it.

They roll like once every 20 games that doesnt count. They need a big that is comitted to rolling.

No one has even bothered to talked about pops stupidness not to run a lot of kawhi pick and pops or rolls in regular season because he sure as hell used it a lot when the spurs got desperate.

[.G.]

Popovich coddles him too much. Give Kawhi more minutes next year and he'll make a serious case for MVP and DPOY. And then he'll truly be primed to become a superstar.

[UZER]

Internet already melting down over Kawhi making 1st-Team over KD :lol


He also had a better RS. :lol

Stupid casuals :lok

They're probably mad Russell didn't win MVP over curry.

[YGWHI]

They roll like once every 20 games that doesnt count. They need a big that is comitted to rolling.
Agree. On other hand, they also need a big fast enough to set screens for shooters.
Sure, Warriors screens are ilegal, but Pop doesn't run plays for our shooters with our big men setting screens like the way the Dubs do. Part of Spurs' low 3P% in playoffs was for that, Pop never gave them a chance to get those looks.

[dbreiden83080]

Hopefully Kawhi actually lives up to all the praise and accolades at some point.

By live up to you mean what? He played well in the playoffs, he just didn't play at the championship immortal level we reserve for some of the legends. He is no doubt a great player and if healthy will be for years to come. He never has to win another ring in the next 10 years for me. Just keep playing as hard as he is. He goes down as an all time Spur..

[Hoops Czar]

And if you replace Kawhi with Kevin Durant they probably win 66-70 games. I'm not saying Kawhi isn't good. I'm saying he's not, in my opinion, quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting. I love him, but I just don't believe that he's the second best player in the league, and I roll my eyes when people act like it's a given that he is.

My truth detector just blew up.

[spursistan]

735925047093661696

[YGWHI]

735925047093661696
He was shooting and defending ugly the whole season and expected what? 1st/2nd team?

Talking about salty bitches...Thank God we traded this guy.

[apalisoc_9]

735925047093661696

Does the nigga think hes better than Durant or Green :lol

[timtonymanu]

735925047093661696

undercover mental midget

[loveforthegame]

:claw

Well deserved.

[rasuo214]

Spoiled fan base acting spoiled, can't even appreciate a great player.

[Hoops Czar]

Sadly, you aren't smart enough to realize that being #2 in MVP race or making 1st team doesn't mean he's the 2nd best player in the league.

Those are REGULAR SEASON awards/accolades and Kawhi had a better regular season than Durant and other SF/PFs.

Like many others posted in this thread, neither Curry is the MVP now, in the playoffs.

Curry's #'s vs Thunder.......24.3ppg/5.5reb//4.5assists/41.9%-2pt/37.2%-3pt

Leonard's #'s vs Thunder...22.8ppg/7.8reb/3.4assists/44.9%-2pt/26.3%-3pt

Are you trying to say that it's Curry's fault the Warriors are losing the series to the Thunder or are you just trying to justify your own double standard that Leonard shouldn't take blame for his postseason performance because he put up numbers that back up his #2 in MVP voting but, Curry should take the blame because he's not playing at an MVP level? The numbers look pretty similar to me. Get off your high horse.

[RD2191]

735925047093661696

This nigga can't even make the finals in the weak ass east. Smh.

[rasuo214]

Leonard is a great player and have exceeded all my expectations. I was hesitant to call him a top 10 player at the start of this season but he's definitely that now, maybe at #4 or #5. But let's not get carried away. If Durant and Leonard swapped teams, the Spurs would be the ones playing the Warriors right now. Durant is still a top 3 player and guarded Leonard very well when he needed to, forcing Leonard to shoot low percentage fade away jumpers over a 7 footer.

The voters took into account team records. OKC were up and down in the regular season (still, they won 55 games, which is pretty good).

Having Durant doesn't improve the supporting cast. OKC still would have won and probably had an easier time at it. No one would have been able to shut down Westbrook like Kawhi did (Green is a great defender but he didn't do much to slow down Russ), Kawhi vs KD probably ends up being a wash. OKC role players were better, KD isn't changing that. Really LMA would have needed to carry the team.

[rasuo214]

Curry's #'s vs Thunder.......24.3ppg/5.5reb//4.5assists/41.9%-2pt/37.2%-3pt

Leonard's #'s vs Thunder...22.8ppg/7.8reb/3.4assists/44.9%-2pt/26.3%-3pt

Are you trying to say that it's Curry's fault the Warriors are losing the series to the Thunder or are you just trying to justify your own double standard that Leonard shouldn't take blame for his postseason performance because he put up numbers that back up his #2 in MVP voting but, Curry should take the blame because he's not playing at an MVP level? The numbers look pretty similar to me. Get off your high horse.

So Kawhi outplayed Curry and people are whining about Kawhi's performance?

[Hoops Czar]

So Kawhi outplayed Curry and people are whining about Kawhi's performance?

Put on your trifocals and get back to me.

[rasuo214]

Put on your trifocals and get back to me.

equal offense + vastly superior defense = superior performance

or is that too difficult to grasp?

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/730957335116406784/fObPyd_u_bigger.jpg San Antonio Spurs Verified account ‏@spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs)

More from Coach Pop on Kawhi & LaMarcus » http://gospu.rs/1WYp2PB (https://t.co/8EuoSXfxGh)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjbBT4RVEAA-ccR.jpg

[YGWHI]

Are you trying to say that it's Curry's fault the Warriors are losing the series to the Thunder or are you just trying to justify your own double standard that Leonard shouldn't take blame for his postseason performance because he put up numbers that back up his #2 in MVP voting but, Curry should take the blame because he's not playing at an MVP level? The numbers look pretty similar to me. Get off your high horse.
Curry averaged 30 ppg in the regular season, Kawhi 21.2.

Kawhi scored 23 ppg against the Thunder, better than his regular season average...Curry? 24.

Now, tell me who didn't meet the expectations?

[Hoops Czar]

equal offense + vastly superior defense = superior performance

or is that too difficult to grasp?

It's fun making things up.

[phxspurfan]

KL is the best defender in the league but its painfully evident he was more important offensively. You dont try to downgrade to 50-40-90 scorer who scores 21 in 32 minutes. Thats retarded.

The Spurs just need a rollman and a Pg that can penetrate and defend. And hope that Tony can provide 11ppg of the bench.

This. Even though losing was sad we really only need 2 pieces to be a title contender next season. And neither of those pieces are hard to find.

[YGWHI]

So Kawhi outplayed Curry and people are whining about Kawhi's performance?
When some guy bumped old threads in the offseason, I read that Hoops said Kawhi will be just a good defender... "just good on defense"

After that I understood his salty posting about Kawhi in every thread this season :lol

[YGWHI]

:wow
735918096142217216
:claw

[FkLA]

Raymond is such an overrated donkey tbh.

[rasuo214]

It's fun making things up.

Is that why you do it so often?

[rasuo214]

:wow
735918096142217216
:claw

most overrated player in the NBA.

[SAGirl]

I'm sure Kawhi would be willing to give up his first team all NBA for the chance to take his team out of first or second round.

:toastThe Kawhi I heard in interviews didn't care about RS awards at all. All that mattered was the championship, in his own words. I agree he would rather still be competing than home early despite personal awards. Those are nice and all but it's still a disappointing end to the season.

That's not on him alone. I think all guys need to look at themselves in that locker room and evaluate what they can do to help the team at this point.

[Hoops Czar]

Curry averaged 30 ppg in the regular season, Kawhi 21.2.

Kawhi scored 23 ppg against the Thunder, better than his regular season average...Curry? 24.

Now, tell me who doesn't meet the expectations?

That's a simpleton's response. You didn't even bother to answer the question. By that logic, Kevin Durant should be MVP and Russell Westbrook should be runner up to MVP because they both stepped it up in the playoffs and both outplayed your boy Leonard.

[Hoops Czar]

:wow
735918096142217216
:claw

Lebron has 4 MVP's

[tholdren]

Lebron has 4 MVP's
List of players that did this and was not the 4th option on a team.

Hakeem. The end.

Comparing kl to hakeem is fucking dumb

[tholdren]

most overrated player in the NBA.
Comparing him to Hakeem, you are correct. He has ZERO rings as the leader of a team. He will have ZERO RINGS as a leader of a team.

[rasuo214]

Comparing him to Hakeem, you are correct. He has ZERO rings as the leader of a team. He will have ZERO RINGS as a leader of a team.

Kawhi is 24. Hakeem had ZERO RINGS until he was 31. Jordan had ZERO RINGS until he was 28. LeBron had ZERO RINGS until he was 27. Should I continue?

[tholdren]

Kawhi is 24. Hakeem had ZERO RINGS until he was 31. Jordan had ZERO RINGS until he was 28. LeBron had ZERO RINGS until he was 27. Should I continue?
Not really, both those players at 24 were better than KL AND far and away the best players/leading their team. Neither had a side-kick like LMA, or remotely close to the crew that KL has, AND STILL had better stats. Had you been alive during this time, you wouldn't type such stupid shit.

[DAF86]

Who the fuck voted for Tony? :lol

[Hoops Czar]

Kawhi is 24. Hakeem had ZERO RINGS until he was 31. Jordan had ZERO RINGS until he was 28. LeBron had ZERO RINGS until he was 27. Should I continue?

Kobe was 21, Bird was 24, Duncan was 22, Magic was 22... Should I continue?

Btw, Lebron singlehandedly took Cleveland to the NBA Finals at age 22. Cleveland's second best player was Mo Williams.

[rasuo214]

Kobe was 21, Bird was 24, Duncan was 22, Magic was 22... Should I continue?

Btw, Lebron singlehandedly took Cleveland to the NBA Finals at age 22. Cleveland's second best player was Mo Williams.

Kawhi was 22...

[RD2191]

Kobe was 21, Bird was 24, Duncan was 22, Magic was 22... Should I continue?

Btw, Lebron singlehandedly took Cleveland to the NBA Finals at age 22. Cleveland's second best player was Mo Williams.

Lol just take the L you little bitch

[Hoops Czar]

Kawhi was 22...

As the 4th option.

[Hoops Czar]

Not really, both those players at 24 were better than KL AND far and away the best players/leading their team. Neither had a side-kick like LMA, or remotely close to the crew that KL has, AND STILL had better stats. Had you been alive during this time, you wouldn't type such stupid shit.

Bold this nigga

[YGWHI]

That's a simpleton's response. You didn't even bother to answer the question. By that logic, Kevin Durant should be MVP and Russell Westbrook should be runner up to MVP because they both stepped it up in the playoffs and both outplayed your boy Leonard.
Westbrook outplayed Kawhi? When?

-Westbrook: 25/6/10/2 ( 23.5 FGA 27 TOs / FG: 37% / TS: 47%)
-Kawhi: 23/7/3/2 (18.5 FGA 12 TOs / FG: 48% / TS: 55%)

Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting than Westbrook in less minutes and shots. Also, he was defending the best opposite player, while Westbrook guarding...Parker. :lol


I know, with your low IQ, it's hard for you to understand a simple concept...but step up in playoffs doesn't matter in the regular season MVP race.

[YGWHI]

Neither had a side-kick like LMA, or remotely close to the crew that KL has, AND STILL had better stats.e

Btw, Lebron singlehandedly took Cleveland to the NBA Finals at age 22.

And he won? No. Did he win at his 26? No. LeBron needed Wade and Bosh to win a ship...

[texbumTHElife]

Not really, both those players at 24 were better than KL AND far and away the best players/leading their team. Neither had a side-kick like LMA, or remotely close to the crew that KL has, AND STILL had better stats. Had you been alive during this time, you wouldn't type such stupid shit.

The '91 Bulls roster shits on the '16 Spurs roster and it's not even close. Hell, Jordan + Pippen is better than the Spurs entire back court put together. It was a team full of clutch performers and big shot hitters.

Don't even fucking get me started on The Dream having "no sidekick". That's pure ignorance. He had Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassel, Mario Ellie, Robert Horry, Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith. That was a historically stacked roster.

Talk about typing stupid shit. Do your fucking homework next time.

[Hoops Czar]

Westbrook outplayed Kawhi? When?

-Westbrook: 25/6/10/2 ( 23.5 FGA 27 TOs / FG: 37% / TS: 47%)
-Kawhi: 23/7/3/2 (18.5 FGA 12 TOs / FG: 48% / TS: 55%)

Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting than Westbrook in less minutes and shots. Also, he was defending the best opposite player, while Westbrook guarding...Parker. :lol


I know, with your low IQ, it's hard for you to understand a simple concept...but step up in playoffs doesn't matter in the regular season MVP race.

Conveniently leaving off assists isn't going to win you bonus points with me. He averaged 10.5 assists which accounts for a MINIMUM 21 points more per game. It's not always about point scoring but who makes the players around him better. Your only answer the last couple of weeks has been the Spurs need to find a point guard that knows his role or in YGWHI's terms, a competent PG that makes Kawhi look good.

I never said that the regular season MVP race had anything to do with postseason stats but, regular season accolades don't mean shit when your exiting the playoffs in the 1st or 2nd round. My point was Leonard didn't exactly play the MVP runner up in the postseason either if your going to dog Curry for having a few average games.

[Hoops Czar]

And he won? No. Did he win at his 26? No. LeBron needed Wade and Bosh to win a ship...

The 2016 Spurs roster dwarfs the 2007 Cavs roster in almost every conceivable way. Are you just trolling?

[YGWHI]

Conveniently leaving off assists isn't going to win you bonus points with me. He averaged 10.5 assists.
No shit! Plz, tell me he's the point guard of his team...


Conveniently you..
Well, you are the one who is saying that a player who scored almost the same ppg, in more minutes, on a lot more shots, shooting way worse than the other player, outplayed him.

[YGWHI]

The 2016 Spurs roster dwarfs the 2007 Cavs roster in almost every conceivable way.
And still he needed two other superstars to win a ship...


just good on defense
Are you just trolling?

[Hoops Czar]

No shit! Plz, tell me he's the point guard of his team...

Lebron isn't a pg.



Well, you are the one who is saying that a player who scored almost the same ppg, in more minutes, on a lot more shots, shooting way worse than the other player, outplayed him.

I gave Curry's stat line, not Westbrook's. I just said Westbrook had a better series because he made the players around him better. You're the one who compared the two, remember?



Westbrook: 25/6/10/2 ( 23.5 FGA 27 TOs / FG: 37% / TS: 47%)
-Kawhi: 23/7/3/2 (18.5 FGA 12 TOs / FG: 48% / TS: 55%)

Kawhi scored 23 ppg on better shooting than Westbrook in less minutes and shots. Also, he was defending the best opposite player, while Westbrook guarding...Parker. :lol


And still he needed two other superstars to win a ship...


Are you just trolling?

Ah, so what you're actually saying is Leonard needs another star because he's one short. Lebron carried a lottery team to the NBA finals. Leonard carried a 67 win team with 5x the talent of that 2007 Cavs team to a first and second round exit. Why can't you see a difference between the two?

[rasuo214]

As the 4th option.

Then why did you list Magic?

[YGWHI]

I just said Westbrook had a better series
Are you drunk, right? You said that Westbrook outplayed Kawhi.

[cjw]

Lebron isn't a pg.




I gave Curry's stat line, not Westbrook's. I just said Westbrook had a better series because he made the players around him better. You're the one who compared the two, remember?





Ah, so what you're actually saying is Leonard needs another star because he's one short. Lebron carried a lottery team to the NBA finals. Leonard carried a 67 win team with 5x the talent of that 2007 Cavs team to a first and second round exit. Why can't you see a difference between the two?

Must be nice to play in the East. Wake me up when an earthquake shifts OKC a time zone to the east.

I for one think Lebron is far and away the best player on the planet. He also gets a free pass to the finals.

[Hoops Czar]

Then why did you list Magic?

17.4ppg/*11.3reb/*9.3assists/*2.9steals/52fg%

* Led team in offensive and defensive rebounds, assist and steals. Led team in ORtg (126) and DRtg (102) led team in Win shares(2.7) nearly doubling 2nd place Kareem (1.5)

Why you ask?

[Hoops Czar]

Are you drunk, right? You said that Westbrook outplayed Kawhi.

He did.

[Hoops Czar]

Must be nice to play in the East. Wake me up when an earthquake shifts OKC a time zone to the east.

I for one think Lebron is far and away the best player on the planet. He also gets a free pass to the finals.

This is true but, in 2007, Detroit was a pretty hefty favorite vs Cleveland and Lebron literally willed his team to a series victory. He had no help that postseason.

[YGWHI]

He did.
So..."you are the one who is saying that a player who scored almost the same ppg, in more minutes, on a lot more shots, shooting way worse than the other player, outplayed him"

[rasuo214]

17.4ppg/*11.3reb/*9.3assists/*2.9steals/52fg%

* Led team in offensive and defensive rebounds, assist and steals. Led team in ORtg (126) and DRtg (102) led team in Win shares(2.7) nearly doubling 2nd place Kareem (1.5)

Why you ask?

As the 4th option. Either that's relevant or it's not. Also not sure where you found those stats.

[J_Paco]

If you took kawhi out of the current ISO and slow paced offense, this team would have cracked in the Regular season. Not to mention the defense was inflated in the first two months.

In actuality the defense had been up and down mostly due to personel. West-Diaw-Porker-mills..

Green shot terribly thr whole year :lol

Hmmmm, doesn't the "inflated defense" in the beginning of the season have a lot to do with Duncan's overall health and impact? Once that began to slip after December the defense was very good but not as great as in November and December.

Parker defensive play was also much better in the beginning of the season, but began to fall apart once overall fatigue set in.

Diaw and West were always going to be a poor defensive pairing (no defensive rebounding or rim protection) while Patty tries hard but doesn't have the physical attributes to succeed.

With all that said, the team was still the best defensive team in the league and that carried them throughout. It was essentially a "two man" team offensively, but defensively they played well as a unit.

No need to bash the team to prop up Kawhi and to a lesser extent LaMarcus. The team won 67 games because they were flat out great on defense and got off to good/great leads against weaker competition. Once that stopped happening in the playoffs, well you saw the final result.

[Hoops Czar]

So..."you are the one who is saying that a player who scored almost the same ppg, in more minutes, on a lot more shots, shooting way worse than the other player, outplayed him"

Westbrook made plays down the stretch to win games. Why is this so hard to understand? He shoots more because he's a shoot first pg with a very limited supporting cast. Sometimes it can be a detriment but not this year. He was transcendent when it counted, Leonard wasn't. Leonard put up his numbers like he usually does and once again he watches the playoffs from the comfort of his own living room. I suppose you'll blame Parker and Pop for phasing Kawhi out in the 4th quarter of games but, Leonard has to show some initiative too. He's way too passive and he doesn't make the players around him better on the offensive end.

[apalisoc_9]

Hmmmm, doesn't the "inflated defense" in the beginning of the season have a lot to do with Duncan's overall health and impact? Once that began to slip after December the defense was very good but not as great as in November and December.

Parker defensive play was also much better in the beginning of the season, but began to fall apart once overall fatigue set in.

Diaw and West were always going to be a poor defensive pairing (no defensive rebounding or rim protection) while Patty tries hard but doesn't have the physical attributes to succeed.

With all that said, the team was still the best defensive team in the league and that carried them throughout. It was essentially a "two man" team offensively, but defensively they played well as a unit.

No need to bash the team to prop up Kawhi and to a lesser extent LaMarcus. The team won 67 games because they were flat out great on defense and got off the good/great leads. Once that stop happening in the playoffs, we'll you see the final result.

The inflated defensive record had more to with schedule. But Duncan playing fresh was a factor for sure. However from Feb, the team has relied mostly on Leonard-Aldridge-Parker to carry the load offensively and the defense was hard to crack because teams dont gameplan in regular season games.

I think the team overall has done a great job defensively. They were great even in the playoffs but their downfall was their predictable offense and lack of rebounding. Pop not playing tim extended minutes really bothered me a lot. He was the one other guy beside Leonard who had a love for boxing out. Everyone had the fundamental of a 6th grade in terms of boxing out.

Bonner is an elite box out guy. He probably would have done a better job than Bobo and West as painful as that sounds.

[Hoops Czar]

As the 4th option. Either that's relevant or it's not. Also not sure where you found those stats.

Magic was the best player on the floor. He orchestrated the offense and was the best player on defense. The 1st option doesn't mean who takes the most shots. In 2014, Duncan was the best player on the floor.

Stats via Basketball Reference.

[YGWHI]

Why is this so hard to understand?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjbCiLCUUAEIyio.jpg

[J_Paco]

Kobe was 21, Bird was 24, Duncan was 22, Magic was 22... Should I continue?

Btw, Lebron singlehandedly took Cleveland to the NBA Finals at age 22. Cleveland's second best player was Mo Williams.

Mo Williams wasn't on the '07 Cavs, buddy. I believe the two PG's were Boobie Gibson and Damion Jones.

Your overall point is still valid, though. That '07 Cavs team was bad, yet LBJ willed them to a Finals appearance based on his greatness alone.

[rasuo214]

Magic was the best player on the floor. He orchestrated the offense and was the best player on defense. The 1st option doesn't mean who takes the most shots. In 2014, Duncan was the best player on the floor.

Stats via Basketball Reference.

I had to ctrl+F those numbers and it looks like you cited the 81-82 season not 79-80.


If we're looking at Playoff numbers for their first championships:
Kawhi: 119 ORtg 101 DRtg (+18) | .191 WS/48 | 23.1 PP100 51.0 FG%
TD: 110 ORtg 92 DRtg (+18) | .243 WS/48 | 30.3 PP100 51.1 FG%
Magic: 117 ORtg 100 DRtg (+17) | .203 WS/48 | 20.9 PP100 51.8 FG%
Bird: 109 ORtg 95 DRtg (+14) | .198 WS/48 | 24.9 PP100 47.0 FG%
Kobe: 107 ORtg 107 DRtg (0) | .115 WS/48 | 28.9 PP100 44.2 FG%


Kawhi fits with TD (although he's head and shoulders above the rest), Magic, and Bird a lot better than Kobe does.

[Hoops Czar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjbCiLCUUAEIyio.jpg

Kawhi: Hey, look at me everybody, I'm good!
Durant: Hey, you da man Kawhi! Hey, look everybody, Kawhi won himself another regular season award!!!
Lebron: You da real king of the regular season Kawhi!
Westbrook: Damn man, you're special! They should call you super nova Leonard! Did you really make that 15-footer against the T-Wolves with your eyes closed?
Kawhi: Yep, that was me.
Kyrie: Damn nigga, you got it all going on.
Love: Can we be friends?
Kawhi: Aww gee, thank guys. All that hard work is really starting to pay off. I think I'm going to pat myself on the back.
Durant: Yeah, well, wish I could stay and chat but ya know, playoffs are starting and well you know, I got to prepare and things but, hey, enjoy the offseason. Training camp starts 5 months.
Kawhi: playoffs? oh yeah, right. Well, oh, gee, sounds like fun. But, I'm going to have fun too. I'm gonna go home and invite over my baby's mamma and, and, and I've got these board games Candy Land and Yahtzee and, and we'll watch some movies... Have you ever seen the Hottie and the Nottie starring Paris Hilton??? Oh were--
Janitor: Hey, Kawhi, stop staring at your DPOY award and look up, Durant's gone.
Kawhi: I know. I just wanted to feel special.
Janitor: You are special Kawhi. The regular season is yours to own man and nobody can take that away from you. Now, are you gonna set aside that award and hold the dustpan still or am I going to have to do everything myself?

[YGWHI]

...
More Hoops' butt hurt replies :sleep


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3iNc3op70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUC375oqFZ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZrfT4W_6Sg

[Hoops Czar]

I had to ctrl+F those numbers and it looks like you cited the 81-82 season not 79-80.


If we're looking at Playoff numbers for their first championships:
Kawhi: 119 ORtg 101 DRtg (+18) | .191 WS/48 | 23.1 PP100 51.0 FG%
TD: 110 ORtg 92 DRtg (+18) | .243 WS/48 | 30.3 PP100 51.1 FG%
Magic: 117 ORtg 100 DRtg (+17) | .203 WS/48 | 20.9 PP100 51.8 FG%
Bird: 109 ORtg 95 DRtg (+14) | .198 WS/48 | 24.9 PP100 47.0 FG%
Kobe: 107 ORtg 107 DRtg (0) | .115 WS/48 | 28.9 PP100 44.2 FG%


Kawhi fits with TD (although he's head and shoulders above the rest), Magic, and Bird a lot better than Kobe does.

That isn't how ORtg and DRtg are meant to be used. That's pure manipulation of stats. Though, that was clever.:lol I said Magic at age 22 so that would be the numbers from his 81-82 season. You must be sipping acid if you think he was heads and shoulders above Magic and Bird. Not even the stats you manipulated show that.:lol

[Hoops Czar]

I wonder how many players played at this level on both ends this season...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3iNc3op70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUC375oqFZ4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZrfT4W_6Sg

Probably nobody, but most complete player doesn't equal best player.

[YGWHI]

Probably nobody
"Why is this so hard to understand?" This thread is about him making NBA ALL First team and that's how he gets it.

[rasuo214]

That isn't how ORtg and DRtg are meant to be used. That's pure manipulation of stats. Though, that was clever.:lol I said Magic at age 22 so that would be the numbers from his 81-82 season. You must be sipping acid if you think he was heads and shoulders above Magic and Bird. Not even the stats you manipulated show that.:lol

Are you saying Tim Duncan wasn't head and shoulders above Magic and Bird? The stats would certainly indicate that.

And yes ORtg - DRtg = NetRtg but I guess that's some voodoo manipulation. :downspin:

[rasuo214]

Anyways this entire argument is absurd, we're seriously comparing Kawhi to some of the best players to ever play in the NBA. As if it would be an insult to not be as good as them.

[Hoops Czar]

Are you saying Tim Duncan wasn't head and shoulders above Magic and Bird? The stats would certainly indicate that.

And yes ORtg - DRtg = NetRtg but I guess that's some voodoo manipulation. :downspin:

Correct. Tim Duncan at age 22 was not head & shoulders above Bird (24) and Magic (22).

Enes Kanter 2016 playoffs

ORtg 126 DRtg 105 (+21) WS/48 .226

I guess Kanter is head and shoulders above all of them.

The Spurs were also a much better defensive team than the '82 Lakers so the Drtg is going to be way off. Drtg isn't an accurate measure of one's individual defense.

[rasuo214]

Correct. Tim Duncan at age 22 was not head & shoulders above Bird (24) and Magic (22).

Enes Kanter 2016 playoffs

ORtg 126 DRtg 105 (+21) WS/48 .226

I guess Kanter is head and shoulders above all of them.

The Spurs were also a much better defensive team than the '82 Lakers so the Drtg is going to be way off. Drtg isn't an accurate measure of one's individual defense.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. imo the Celtics and Lakers had more talent and support around Bird and Magic than Timmy had.

[Russo21]

3 people voted LMA for first team at forward ahead of either LBJ, Kawhi and Durant? What were they thinking? Glad LMA made the All-NBA team with us, I think he'll be a monster next season. Well deserved for both.

[Killakobe81]

Do people not really understand that there are 2 sides of the ball? I'd like to see how many points KD would score if he had to guard the other teams best player every night.

Durant has improved plenty on defense ...

[Obstructed_View]

Sadly, you aren't smart enough to realize that being #2 in MVP race or making 1st team doesn't mean he's the 2nd best player in the league.

Those are REGULAR SEASON awards/accolades and Kawhi had a better regular season than Durant and other SF/PFs.

Actually, I'm exactly smart enough to realize that those things don't mean he's the second best player in the league, which is why I stated precisely that for the benefit of those comparing him to Hakeem, Jordan, Duncan, Magic and Bird. :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Actually, I'm exactly smart enough to realize that those things don't mean he's the second best player in the league, which is why I stated precisely that for the benefit of those comparing him to Hakeem, Jordan, Duncan, Magic and Bird. :lol

Pop has been pushing that angle for a year now. He believes hes that good of a player and so do I. Considering weve been right about him being a superstar level player since 13 and Pop in 12..Id stick to that.

[TD 21]

It's hard to gauge his scoring explosivnees because for one he never gets the opportunity to do so.

More importantly, I pointed out before the post season that this team was offensively challenged. We havent even seen kawhi on a pick and roll situation.

Ill conceded that kawhi usually defers in moments where the spurs have a good lead or when one of Parker or Aldridge are getting shots.

Another important thing to note is that explosive scoring for n SF that never handles the ball safe in moment of desepratetion (game 6 okc) etc is going tl have difficulties "taking over"

Durant, Lebron or all the top SF/SG in the league are either the main ballhandler or the second.

It's not about opportunity, so much as it is about him not being the prototypical top five player. He's just not the creator a James or even Durant is and he also can't consistently get to the line.

He can and likely will make incremental improvement in these areas, but if they're to win a championship with him as the best player, it's going to have to be somewhat akin to '14.

I've been saying for a year and half that the offense, while still indisputably efficient, is no longer explosive.

[Gutter92]

Hoops, you have too much time on your hands to write that typa shit up...sad.

[tholdren]

The '91 Bulls roster shits on the '16 Spurs roster and it's not even close. Hell, Jordan + Pippen is better than the Spurs entire back court put together. It was a team full of clutch performers and big shot hitters.

Don't even fucking get me started on The Dream having "no sidekick". That's pure ignorance. He had Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassel, Mario Ellie, Robert Horry, Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith. That was a historically stacked roster.

Talk about typing stupid shit. Do your fucking homework next time.
read the post - IT SAYS AT 24.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop has been pushing that angle for a year now. He believes hes that good of a player and so do I. Considering weve been right about him being a superstar level player since 13 and Pop in 12..Id stick to that.

Pop doesn't believe he's that good. Pop believes he CAN be that good, and that's why he's treating him as such. I think that's a good way to nurture the growth of a talented and constantly-improving player. Kawhi is amazing. He's just not Lebron or KD yet. Not sure why so many Spurs fans are offended by that reality.

[Obstructed_View]

Durant has improved plenty on defense ...

Durant has been an elite defender since he came into the league. But only when he decides to be.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Durant was robbed, 'nuff said. Leonard is way overrated on offense and even on defense as a man defender. He's the best guy on the globe at getting interceptions but a complete cornerback denies his man positive plays rather than merely going for showy stats of his own. Kawhi is more of a risk-taking cornerback, or a very good strong safety. Danny Green is more of a complete cornerback.

[Obstructed_View]

Durant was robbed, 'nuff said. Leonard is way overrated on offense and even on defense as a man defender. He's the best guy on the globe at getting interceptions but a complete cornerback denies his man positive plays rather than merely going for showy stats of his own. Kawhi is more of a risk-taking cornerback, or a very good strong safety. Danny Green is more of a complete cornerback.

Briefly took you off ignore to see if you had anything useful to say.

And you don't. KL is not Iverson or CP3 gambling to get steals.

[tholdren]

Briefly took you off ignore to see if you had anything useful to say.

And you don't. KL is not Iverson or CP3 gambling to get steals.

The thing I don't understand about KL is that he has GREAT defensive instincts, but is inept from an offensive standpoint. I fail to see how he can continue to NOT MAKE PLAYS when it matters on the offensive end. Athletically, he's like Lebron, if he wants to get to the rim, he can, but he chooses not to.

The sad part is at 24 he should be over the "it needs to look good" phase and into the "2 points is 2 points" on the brink of "I need to draw a foul/I want the defense to do this so I'll" and he's no where near this.

[Arcadian]

Deandre Jordan, Demarcus Cousins, Andre Drummond. What a sad era for Centers.

Hey, it's better than what we've had in some recent years. In 2012 it was Howard/Bynum/Chandler...and in 2013 it was 37-yo Duncan, Marc Gasol, and (shitty Lakers version) Howard. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

The thing I don't understand about KL is that he has GREAT defensive instincts, but is inept from an offensive standpoint. I fail to see how he can continue to NOT MAKE PLAYS when it matters on the offensive end. Athletically, he's like Lebron, if he wants to get to the rim, he can, but he chooses not to.

The sad part is at 24 he should be over the "it needs to look good" phase and into the "2 points is 2 points" on the brink of "I need to draw a foul/I want the defense to do this so I'll" and he's no where near this.

I don't think he's trying to look good. He has an amazing ability to control the ball and get a shot off. Unfortunately that allows him to avoid a lot of contact that otherwise might result in a foul. Kawhi has about the same free throw attempts per game as Stef Curry, but he gets takes far more contested shots in the paint than Curry does, and he gets hit a lot more.

[tholdren]

I don't think he's trying to look good. He has an amazing ability to control the ball and get a shot off. Unfortunately that allows him to avoid a lot of contact that otherwise might result in a foul. Kawhi has about the same free throw attempts per game as Stef Curry, but he gets takes far more contested shots in the paint than Curry does, and he gets hit a lot more.

Then what is the situation? Is he stupid? Is the coaching staff stupid? I would ask the same questions of LMA. Turnaround jumpers will get you zero rings.

[YGWHI]

Actually, I'm exactly smart enough to realize that...

Not really.

You said "he isn't quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting"

But in fact he earned those awards and accolades. He had a monster regular season on both ends, he was the best defender in the league...It's pretty obvious he's well deserved of those accolades -winning DPOY, making 1st team- that he's getting in his career.

[Obstructed_View]

Not really.

You said "he isn't quite yet deserving of the awards and accolades he keeps getting"

But in fact he earned those awards and accolades. He had a monster regular season on both ends, he was the best defender in the league...It's pretty obvious he's well deserved of those accolades -winning DPOY, making 1st team- that he's getting in his career.
No, he didn't deserve to be first team, scro. Charles Barkley called him the second best player in the NBA. He doesn't deserve to be called that. If his game suddenly falls off next year and he fades back into a good defender who takes a lot of jump shots then everyone is going to say, "Look how that flash-in-the-pan got all those accolades and awards he didn't deserve." If he continues to improve and actually earns a first team spot next year, nobody will even question the one from this year.

[Obstructed_View]

Then what is the situation? Is he stupid? Is the coaching staff stupid? I would ask the same questions of LMA. Turnaround jumpers will get you zero rings.

It's funny that I answered the question with the three sentences after the part you bolded and you didn't seem to read it. I'll try again: He tries to draw fouls inside, but doesn't get calls. The next thing he needs to learn how to do is to draw contact in a way that it forces the refs to call it. Guys like Kevin Martin and Cory Maggette don't get whistles because they're superstars.

Jordan won six rings shooting turnaround jumpers, but he also was able to draw fouls. I'm confident that it's a skill that can be learned.

[tholdren]

It's funny that I answered the question with the three sentences after the part you bolded and you didn't seem to read it. I'll try again: He tries to draw fouls inside, but doesn't get calls. The next thing he needs to learn how to do is to draw contact in a way that it forces the refs to call it. Guys like Kevin Martin and Cory Maggette don't get whistles because they're superstars.

Jordan won six rings shooting turnaround jumpers, but he also was able to draw fouls. I'm confident that it's a skill that can be learned.
No, I read it. If he tries and "doesn't get a call" then he doesn't try again? I never see him CONSISTENTLY taking it to the rim. What kind of player drives once, doesn't get the call, then is scared to drive. This is my point. To allow him to play scared, and not force the issue is either a coaching issue or a player issue.

And you're right. Jordan was able to do it because he didnt just drive once then give up.

[Obstructed_View]

No, I read it. If he tries and "doesn't get a call" then he doesn't try again? I never see him CONSISTENTLY taking it to the rim. What kind of player drives once, doesn't get the call, then is scared to drive. This is my point. To allow him to play scared, and not force the issue is either a coaching issue or a player issue.

And you're right. Jordan was able to do it because he didnt just drive once then give up.

Since I said that Kawhi takes a lot of contested shots in the paint and that he gets hit a lot, I guess I don't agree that he stops, nor do I agree that he is scared to drive, nor do I agree that he drives once and then gives up. RIF

[K...]

ygwhi vs hoop czar is the bum fight this forum deserves.

God damn, when they said cell phones give you cancer they were probably pulling up this thead. poor rats.

[tholdren]

Since I said that Kawhi takes a lot of contested shots in the paint and that he gets hit a lot, I guess I don't agree that he stops, nor do I agree that he is scared to drive, nor do I agree that he drives once and then gives up. RIF
Then he can't finish, and therefore is not the player westbrook is.

[YGWHI]

No, he didn't deserve to be first team, scro.
He did, buttf*cker.


Charles Barkley called him the second best player in the NBA. He doesn't deserve to be called that.
He didn't make it because of Barkley or because he's the best 2nd player...

He made 1st team because he had a monster regular season, shooting historic 50-40-90 most season -finished 51-44-88-, being one of the most efficient scorers -over 80 percentile in every category from any spot on the floor-, all that, being the best defender in the league.

No one played at his level on both ends in the season, but he didn't deserve to be first team??


If his game suddenly falls off next year and he fades back into a good defender who takes a lot of jump shots then everyone is going to say, "Look how that flash-in-the-pan got all those accolades and awards he didn't deserve."
That's really stupid.

He had a better regular season than most SFs/Pfs in the league but he didn't deserve first team because he could fail next season??

[Obstructed_View]

Then he can't finish, and therefore is not the player westbrook is.

Okay. I agree that he either needs to hit his inside shots or draw a foul. Many times he does an amazing job at keeping the ball away enough to get the shot off but then doesn't draw the whistle. Again, it's a skill he needs to develop. Glad we're all on the same page, here.

[Obstructed_View]

He had a better regular season than most SFs/Pfs in the league but he didn't deserve first team because he could fail next season??

Having a better regular season than most SF/PF in the league doesn't make you first team, scro.

:lol buttf*cker. Are you 12?

[YGWHI]

Having a better regular season than most SF/PF in the league doesn't make you first team, scro.
2 spots for SF/PFs he was better than the rest...but he shouldn't have made the first team?


:lol buttf*cker. Are you 12?
Not that young...I already posted the Spurs gifted me a win on my 21st bday vs the Pels on February. Kawhi was 11-17/26 points :claw

[rasuo214]

Then he can't finish, and therefore is not the player westbrook is.

Westbrook isn't a good finisher and probably one of the worst among star players.

[DPG21920]

There are really people arguing Kawhi didn't deserve first team :lol?

[K...]

only the real maverick dumbasses like UNT and hoop czar.

The bulk of this thread is about Kawhi being first team vs kawhi being god of all men. Also people trying to stir up shit with Kawhi >lma.

[Spurtacular]

1. The fall of Davis, Harden, Griffin (though injured).
2. Jimmy Buckets maybe being under rated.
3. Someone gave Parker a vote? :lmao

[Spurtacular]

1. The fall of Davis, Harden, Griffin (though injured).
2. Jimmy Buckets maybe being under rated.
3. Someone gave Parker a vote? :lmao

4. LMA moving up from fringe all-star. Looked like first team All NBA for the last couple months (excluding the last few playoff games).
5. KD and Durant high rated; but....