Erazem Lorbek, Davis Bertan, Adam Hanga, DeShaun Thomas

[SilverSpur]

What is the update on these players? Are they ready to make the team?
Any news on other draft rights players , Livio Jean Charles , Ryan Richards, Denmon?

[Robz4000]

Davis Bertans will prolly be on the team next year, but none of them are really worth a damn.

[jeebus]

Ry:loln Rich:lolrds. That scrub can't even compete at summer league level.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Adam Hanga is the best of these players right now, but he's unlikely to make it to the NBA due to his age and low upside. Actually Printezis is clearly the best player that the Spurs have rights to, but he's also very unlikely to go to the NBA at this point. He's good enough to be a contributor though.

Bertans definitely has the most upside due to his shooting and length but he's a long way from being a rotation NBA player.

LJC can sort of force himself on the team but he's raw and needs at least two years in Austin, but has intriguing athleticism.

Thomas has been in Austin the whole season.

The others are scrubs. Lorbek hasn't played basketball in a while.

[lmbebo]

Center from last year, Bertans and LJC are all the spurs assets really overseas. Rest won't really make it or don't want to make it over here.

[cjw]

When you're picking in the mid-to-late 20s (or 30th) every year with one exception (20th), the chance that you hit on these picks is slim to none.

If any of these guys can be cheap rotation players that can be molded into anything worth a damn, it's a positive at this point.

[DJR210]

When you're picking in the mid-to-late 20s (or 30th) every year with one exception (20th), the chance that you hit on these picks is slim to none.

If any of these guys can be cheap rotation players that can be molded into anything worth a damn, it's a positive at this point.

:lol "slim to none"

[elemento]

Ry:loln Rich:lolrds. That scrub can't even compete at summer league level.

Sadly, give that body and athleticism to Matt Bonner and we have an all-star :lol

Fucking waste of great genes tbh

[cjw]

:lol "slim to none"

Around half the players from that point in the draft end up out of the league after their rookie deals. Around a 20% chance of hitting (3 All Stars out of 90 picks in past ten drafts - Butler, Lowry and Rondo. Rondo and Lowry were both ten years ago, and the other guys from 20-30 were Balkman, Marcus Williams, Josh Boone, Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, Sergio Rodriguez, Maurice Ager, Mardy Collins and Joel Freeland. Some world beaters in there.

It's a crap shoot.

Spurs were obviously pretty good at unearthing talent from 20 onward from the first title in '99 up through 2011, but less impact players over the past four drafts. Lots to be seen still.

[TheGreatYacht]

All of them are scrubs, RC is getting pretty good at drafting duds like them and Fathead

[gambit1990]

really hoping bertans plays on our summer league team.

[objective]

Actually Printezis is clearly the best player that the Spurs have rights to, but he's also very unlikely to go to the NBA at this point. He's good enough to be a contributor though.

His rights were traded away on draft night.

[YGWHI]

All of them are scrubs
People who didn't even watch a game of them in this year...call them scrubs.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

His rights were traded away on draft night.

While dude's rights have been traded about a million times and been held by half the NBA teams, which is difficult to keep track of, they're currently owned by the Spurs again from the Splitter trade last summer. Not sure if any team ever offered him a contract or whether he ever even intended to go to the NBA.

[Mal]

Bertans will join, and play garbage time to be ready for the future. Noone else from your list will made NBA.

[Hoops Czar]

Around half the players from that point in the draft end up out of the league after their rookie deals. Around a 20% chance of hitting (3 All Stars out of 90 picks in past ten drafts - Butler, Lowry and Rondo. Rondo and Lowry were both ten years ago, and the other guys from 20-30 were Balkman, Marcus Williams, Josh Boone, Shannon Brown, Jordan Farmar, Sergio Rodriguez, Maurice Ager, Mardy Collins and Joel Freeland. Some world beaters in there.

It's a crap shoot.

Spurs were obviously pretty good at unearthing talent from 20 onward from the first title in '99 up through 2011, but less impact players over the past four drafts. Lots to be seen still.


What about players like Draymond Green, Andrei Kirilenko, Jmmy Butler, Paul Milsap, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, Isaiah Thomas, Goran Dragic, Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan, Hassan Whitside, Lou Williams, Wesley Matthews (undrafted) etc. Some were 2nd round draft picks but, they still count.

It's hardly a crapshoot. It's about having good talent evaulators and not settling for draft and stash raw euro trash. Excluding Leonard which they traded up for, their best pick since 2008 was Goerge Hill (pick 26). Yeah, a lot of players don't work out but when you're dealing with the so-called "best of the best" PATFO that never gets it wrong according to the media contingent, they've swung and missed quite a bit.

[objective]

In case anyone wants to make up their own minds:

There's full games on YouTube for a lot of these guys. You can watch Bertans & Hanga, Dangubic, Milutinov, and Livio Jean-Charles all in their full glory.

I've been watching a few (just watched d a half of Dangubic in the Adriatic finals) and my impressions are:

Bertans is legit as long as he's healthy. Should play right away. Plays tough too. Doesn't have the strength to handle PF, but he plays hard on both ends when he could probably get away with being a lazy shooter like Marco or Novak. Should be a rotation player right away if Pop doesn't find some washed up crappy vet to take a pay cut and play over him. I want to go back and chart his shots.

Hanga would be a useful hustle wing, but probably not on the Spurs at his age. He doesn't have the playmaking of Simmons or the overrated hunched over playmaking of Anderson. He's arguably a worse shooter than Anderson and older than Simmons. So in a rotation at his age he'd be in street clothes a lot if Manu returned.

Milutinov I think could play right now 15-20 minutes as a backup center. His minutes are strange at OLY but not due to poor play. Just weird euro stuff on a great team where Milutinov might start, play well, and sit the second half. His only real flaw is some dumb fouls, which is not that bad for a young backup center. But a bigger, less clever Splitter might be a fair comparison. One thing I like about him is that he can pass. There's nothing that should hinder him in the system, he can execute all the passes and is willing to pass, he's no Yinka Dare. So many young bigs can't pass, but he can. He's not a force like Boban. He won't put up those numbers. He can't shoot or pass like Boban. But he can cover the pick and roll better. So he might be an option if Boban leaves.

Dangubic I watched a lot last year and have only started to catch up. Great athlete and very good perimeter defender. Looks like he improved his 3 pt shooting to serviceable levels, which is great. Last year, he was always last on the totem pole with touches, so it didn't look like he had the necessary ball skills. He rarely ran a pick and roll, rarely iso'd. Just defending and cutting. Interested to watch his tape to see if there was progress. He is a guy I would like to see signed and parked in the d-league to work on his skills. Just touching the ball every time and trying to run stuff through him. He's young enough to still improve and his defense is good enough already, he routinely picked up point guards full court at 6-7.

I don't think LJC is an NBA player. He was a mature enough athlete to hustle his way to great stats against high schoolers and get drafted. But his physical tools aren't that big a deal at the NBA level, they're solid but not rare, and he's a good but not game-changing athlete. Maybe he's still recovering from the knee injury and it's not fair to judge his explosiveness as it is currently. But it's also hard to see any basketball skills from him other than rolling to the rim at an okay level or being decent at contesting shots.

Maybe I'm suffering from recency bias as the last game of his I watched was the worst game I've ever seen from a draft & stash. He was terrible in almost every facet of the game including strength where he was manhandled on the defensive glass by scrubby euro 4s. He's like a homeless man's Hakim Warrick. Or a smaller, unskilled, unpolished Jeff Ayres.

Putting him in the d-league wouldn't hurt anything. But I don't have much hope for him out of all these players.

[TXstbobcat]

In case anyone wants to make up their own minds:

There's full games on YouTube for a lot of these guys. You can watch Bertans & Hanga, Dangubic, Milutinov, and Livio Jean-Charles all in their full glory.

I've been watching a few (just watched d a half of Dangubic in the Adriatic finals) and my impressions are:

Bertans is legit as long as he's healthy. Should play right away. Plays tough too. Doesn't have the strength to handle PF, but he plays hard on both ends when he could probably get away with being a lazy shooter like Marco or Novak. Should be a rotation player right away if Pop doesn't find some washed up crappy vet to take a pay cut and play over him. I want to go back and chart his shots.

Hanga would be a useful hustle wing, but probably not on the Spurs at his age. He doesn't have the playmaking of Simmons or the overrated hunched over playmaking of Anderson. He's arguably a worse shooter than Anderson and older than Simmons. So in a rotation at his age he'd be in street clothes a lot if Manu returned.

Milutinov I think could play right now 15-20 minutes as a backup center. His minutes are strange at OLY but not due to poor play. Just weird euro stuff on a great team where Milutinov might start, play well, and sit the second half. His only real flaw is some dumb fouls, which is not that bad for a young backup center. But a bigger, less clever Splitter might be a fair comparison. One thing I like about him is that he can pass. There's nothing that should hinder him in the system, he can execute all the passes and is willing to pass, he's no Yinka Dare. So many young bigs can't pass, but he can. He's not a force like Boban. He won't put up those numbers. He can't shoot or pass like Boban. But he can cover the pick and roll better. So he might be an option if Boban leaves.

Dangubic I watched a lot last year and have only started to catch up. Great athlete and very good perimeter defender. Looks like he improved his 3 pt shooting to serviceable levels, which is great. Last year, he was always last on the totem pole with touches, so it didn't look like he had the necessary ball skills. He rarely ran a pick and roll, rarely iso'd. Just defending and cutting. Interested to watch his tape to see if there was progress. He is a guy I would like to see signed and parked in the d-league to work on his skills. Just touching the ball every time and trying to run stuff through him. He's young enough to still improve and his defense is good enough already, he routinely picked up point guards full court at 6-7.

I don't think LJC is an NBA player. He was a mature enough athlete to hustle his way to great stats against high schoolers and get drafted. But his physical tools aren't that big a deal at the NBA level, they're solid but not rare, and he's a good but not game-changing athlete. Maybe he's still recovering from the knee injury and it's not fair to judge his explosiveness as it is currently. But it's also hard to see any basketball skills from him other than rolling to the rim at an okay level or being decent at contesting shots.

Maybe I'm suffering from recency bias as the last game of his I watched was the worst game I've ever seen from a draft & stash. He was terrible in almost every facet of the game including strength where he was manhandled on the defensive glass by scrubby euro 4s. He's like a homeless man's Hakim Warrick. Or a smaller, unskilled, unpolished Jeff Ayres.

Putting him in the d-league wouldn't hurt anything. But I don't have much hope for him out of all these players.

thank you for the analysis of the Spurs overseas players.

[spurtech09]

Wouldn't hurt to bring some of these guys in.....Lets see what they can do...

[koriwhat]

I actually don't think yall give anderson enough credit. dude is young, thrown into the fire early in his career and has a ton of upside. give the young buck a break.

[wildbill2u]

The real reason the Spurs draft these guys is that they don't have to pay them anything or count against the cap. So they take a flyer on the foreign draft choices. It's like throwing mud up on a wall and seeing if anything sticks. No risk, maybe a return.

Unfortunately the fans get caught up in the hype and the explanation that the FO gives about their skills and then blows it up in their minds that the guy is another potential Ginobilli or Parker. We found two of those quality guys in almost 20 years.

[cjw]

What about players like Draymond Green, Andrei Kirilenko, Jmmy Butler, Paul Milsap, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, Isaiah Thomas, Goran Dragic, Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan, Hassan Whitside, Lou Williams, Wesley Matthews (undrafted) etc. Some were 2nd round draft picks but, they still count.

It's hardly a crapshoot. It's about having good talent evaulators and not settling for draft and stash raw euro trash. Excluding Leonard which they traded up for, their best pick since 2008 was Goerge Hill (pick 26). Yeah, a lot of players don't work out but when you're dealing with the so-called "best of the best" PATFO that never gets it wrong according to the media contingent, they've swung and missed quite a bit.

Agree - a lot of swinging and missing recently. There are a bunch of productive players that have come from that part of the draft but the dropoff is real after the lottery (about 2x the expected estimated wins added by the 13th pick as where the Spurs typically draft ... 2.4 compared to around 1.0). Second rounders are spins of the roulette wheel, and this is where scouting kicks in. Below from an ESPN piece a year ago:
http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2014%2F0409%2Finsider_e_draft_slo ts01jr_576x415.jpg&w=570

[dabom]

I actually don't think yall give anderson enough credit. dude is young, thrown into the fire early in his career and has a ton of upside. give the young buck a break.

Cost us a 'ship. What more of a break do you need? :lmao

[koriwhat]

Cost us a 'ship. What more of a break do you need? :lmao

he cost us one? him alone? lmao! yall seem to always try to find a scapegoat. this is a team, not an individual's game.

[dabom]

he cost us one? him alone? lmao! yall seem to always try to find a scapegoat. this is a team, not an individual's game.

Do I need to point it out to you, you stupid fuck. :lmao

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The more I watch Milutinov, the more I want him brought over. He'll be cheap and he has a nice skillset. Physical. Good in the PnR. Knack for offensive rebounding. Good passer. Decent midrange jumper. Even if he's not ready, I'd rather have him go through the ropes and have a Boban type of year instead of averaging 10 minutes a game in Europe.

[kaji157]

Lorbek hasnt played in like 2 years now, he is a free agent and i am not sure if he is already retired. If not, he clearly is the better player of them all, even at 32 years old, is big, fundamental and has a reliable outside shot, which could be great to add alongside LA and Kawhi who clog the paint a lot.
I am not sure how retired he is, if he is retired at all, he was forced to skip the previous year due to an injury, and i´m not sure why he didn´t come back. Still i would invite him to the training camp to check him out, is one of the few that could be NBA ready.

[Chinook]

The Spurs don't have Thomas' rights anymore. He'll probably be on the summer league team, but I don't really consider him a prospect anymore.

[koriwhat]

Do I need to point it out to you, you stupid fuck. :lmao

call me what you want but until you can put a psu together with no need for a schematic then come at me.

btw, your takes have always been of the ignorant variety. have fun with that.

[tholdren]

The Spurs don't have Thomas' rights anymore. He'll probably be on the summer league team, but I don't really consider him a prospect anymore.
He never was a prospect. No defense and a really, really, bad shooter. It's funny because shooting was what he was "known for" coming out of college. He was a bully in High School, reminded me a lot of what Evan Turner was doing in the NCAA - Green type of junk scorer. Came to college, did not hit the weight room - stayed fat - became reliant on not creating his own jumpshot. Terrible defender.

If you're looking for an under-the-radar shooter I wonder why people don't give Jon Diebler a look. Spurs need a shooter. Dude blows at anything other than catch-and-shoot, but...
Totals Totals for all European competition · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · Export · PRE · LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/jon-diebler-1.html#totals::none) · ?



Season
League(s)
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
eFG%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS




81

2281
314
635
.494
215
447
.481
99
188
.527
.664
113
133
.850
69
168
237
122
59
6
93
200
956


2011-12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/years/2012.html)
Greek A1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/greek-basket-league/2012.html)
24

576
83
158
.525
61
120
.508
22
38
.579
.718
25
27
.926
21
55
76
21
17
0
30
56
252


2013-14 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/years/2014.html)
Eurocup (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/eurocup/2014.html)
16

546
67
154
.435
44
107
.411
23
47
.489
.578
21
27
.778
9
35
44
24
15
3
12
33
199


2014-15 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/years/2015.html)
Eurocup (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/eurocup/2015.html)
20

599
94
187
.503
58
115
.504
36
72
.500
.658
44
51
.863
25
53
78
42
19
2
34
51
290


2015-16 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/years/2016.html)
Euroleague (http://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/euroleague/2016.html)
21

560
70
136
.515
52
105
.495
18
31
.581
.706
23
28
.821
14
25
39
35
8
1
17
60
215

[SilverSpur]

I read Spurs Reacquired his rights

[noles1983]

just reading those names makes we want to vomit. :vomit:

[Keepin' it real]

Time to cash in those euro chips.

[Twisted_Dawg]

What about players like Draymond Green, Andrei Kirilenko, Jmmy Butler, Paul Milsap, Danny Green, Trevor Ariza, Isaiah Thomas, Goran Dragic, Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan, Hassan Whitside, Lou Williams, Wesley Matthews (undrafted) etc. Some were 2nd round draft picks but, they still count.

It's hardly a crapshoot. It's about having good talent evaulators and not settling for draft and stash raw euro trash. Excluding Leonard which they traded up for, their best pick since 2008 was Goerge Hill (pick 26). Yeah, a lot of players don't work out but when you're dealing with the so-called "best of the best" PATFO that never gets it wrong according to the media contingent, they've swung and missed quite a bit.
^^^^^Right here says it all.

The real reason the Spurs draft these guys is that they don't have to pay them anything or count against the cap. So they take a flyer on the foreign draft choices. It's like throwing mud up on a wall and seeing if anything sticks. No risk, maybe a return.

Unfortunately the fans get caught up in the hype and the explanation that the FO gives about their skills and then blows it up in their minds that the guy is another potential Ginobilli or Parker. We found two of those quality guys in almost 20 years.
^^^^^And right here.

[Plumblbw]

Sadly, give that body and athleticism to Matt Bonner and we have an all-star :lol

Fucking waste of great genes tbh

This is a spot on assessment of this bum. Richards grew up about 10 miles from where I live and being a local boy I really wanted him to make it in the NBA.

You know when he can't even stick on a team in the Micronesia under 11 girl's team that there's no hope for him. He has a sh1t attitude and listening to him interviewed he's chav scum.

As I'm sure most had a long time ago, forget this mug exists.

[Obstructed_View]

He never was a prospect. No defense and a really, really, bad shooter. It's funny because shooting was what he was "known for" coming out of college. He was a bully in High School, reminded me a lot of what Evan Turner was doing in the NCAA - Green type of junk scorer. Came to college, did not hit the weight room - stayed fat - became reliant on not creating his own jumpshot. Terrible defender.

This is pretty spot-on. He is a clever scorer near the basket, in that he can get shots off without having to elevate. He basically lived off physically dominating his competition. Once he got to the NBA level, the caliber of the competition ate up any abilities that he had.

[Chinook]

This is pretty spot-on. He is a clever scorer near the basket, in that he can get shots off without having to elevate. He basically lived off physically dominating his competition. Once he got to the NBA level, the caliber of the competition ate up any abilities that he had.

Thomas barely played at an NBA level, and that had almost everything to do with being the 20th man on the Spurs rather than him being worse than guys like Reggie Williams. He was fine in the summer league and was well above average in the d-league (arguably the Toros' best player). I don't disagree that he doesn't have the physical tools to play in the NBA. But he seems capable of being a great player at the second level.

[exstatic]

Thomas barely played at an NBA level, and that had almost everything to do with being the 20th man on the Spurs rather than him being worse than guys like Reggie Williams. He was fine in the summer league and was well above average in the d-league (arguably the Toros' best player). I don't disagree that he doesn't have the physical tools to play in the NBA. But he seems capable of being a great player at the second level.

Pssssh. Look at DT's d-league numbers, and then compare them against ST's favorite whipping boy Kyle Anderson. There is no comparison. Kyle DOMINATED at the d-league level. DT will never even be a really good d-league player.

[TheGreatYacht]

Pssssh. Look at DT's d-league numbers, and then compare them against ST's favorite whipping boy Kyle Anderson. There is no comparison. Kyle DOMINATED at the d-league level. DT will never even be a really good d-league player.
Kyle Anderson D-League Per 36:
19.2ppg, 7.8rpg, 4.3apg, 1.8spg, 1.3bpg, 3.0TO, 44.7FG%

Deshaun Thomas D-League Per 36:
18.3ppg, 7.7rpg, 2.8apg, 0.7spg, 0.5bpg, 2.0TO, 51.8FG%

Kyle was the 30th pick, Deshaun Thomas was the 58th. Kyle gets playoff minutes, Thomas isn't even on the roster. Both didn't dominate anything, they're both trash and shouldn't be on the roster.

[jyra]

Lorbek hasnt played in like 2 years now, he is a free agent and i am not sure if he is already retired. If not, he clearly is the better player of them all, even at 32 years old, is big, fundamental and has a reliable outside shot, which could be great to add alongside LA and Kawhi who clog the paint a lot.
I am not sure how retired he is, if he is retired at all, he was forced to skip the previous year due to an injury, and i´m not sure why he didn´t come back. Still i would invite him to the training camp to check him out, is one of the few that could be NBA ready.

He had surgery on both knees. I think at this point it's unlikely that he returns to basketball at all. He was never athletic to begin with but after that he is probably done. Even a healthy Lorbek would have struggled mightily adjusting to the NBA. The guy was probably a worse athlete than Bonner before he injured himself.

[tmtcsc]

just reading those names makes we want to vomit. :vomit:

Lol, I hear ya.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-Agree-I-agree-Have-to-agree-GIF.gif?gs=a

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Sounds like we're basically down to Bertans or Milutinov to bring someone over. I hope they bring one of them - we need to feed these kids into the system and see what they can do.

[Chinook]

Pssssh. Look at DT's d-league numbers, and then compare them against ST's favorite whipping boy Kyle Anderson. There is no comparison. Kyle DOMINATED at the d-league level. DT will never even be a really good d-league player.

First, saying Thomas isn't as good as Anderson means nothing to me. I'm in the first row of the Church of Anderson, even if my "amens" get drowned out by SAGirl's fiery sermons.

Second, as TGY points out, Thomas' per-36 and advanced stats compare favorably to Anderson's, and they are easily better than Simmons'. He's not quick enough to play on the perimeter, and he can't shoot well enough to overcome that. That's why he's not an NBA player. But he's a good scorer and better play-maker than folks seem to believe. He'll get a couple of chances to try to stick, but he may well be one of those guys who has a kid who is a legit NBA player.

[palangi]

Sounds like we're basically down to Bertans or Milutinov to bring someone over. I hope they bring one of them - we need to feed these kids into the system and see what they can do.
Yeah they both need to be brought over and developed state side. Whether it is the NBDL or 10 minutes a game and practice time with the big squad.

[palangi]

First, saying Thomas isn't as good as Anderson means nothing to me. I'm in the first row of the Church of Anderson, even if my "amens" get drowned out by SAGirl's fiery sermons.

Second, as TGY points out, Thomas' per-36 and advanced stats compare favorably to Anderson's, and they are easily better than Simmons'. He's not quick enough to play on the perimeter, and he can't shoot well enough to overcome that. That's why he's not an NBA player. But he's a good scorer and better play-maker than folks seem to believe. He'll get a couple of chances to try to stick, but he may well be one of those guys who has a kid who is a legit NBA player.
in baseball terms he sounds like a AAAA player. Right between the big league and AAA.

[cd98]

Kyle Anderson D-League Per 36:
19.2ppg, 7.8rpg, 4.3apg, 1.8spg, 1.3bpg, 3.0TO, 44.7FG%

Deshaun Thomas D-League Per 36:
18.3ppg, 7.7rpg, 2.8apg, 0.7spg, 0.5bpg, 2.0TO, 51.8FG%

Kyle was the 30th pick, Deshaun Thomas was the 58th. Kyle gets playoff minutes, Thomas isn't even on the roster. Both didn't dominate anything, they're both trash and shouldn't be on the roster.

Jimmer was better than both those guys in the D-League. I don't think we can use the D League as a measure of NBA success.

[UZER]

:Pop: These playoffs aren't for any of them.


Hope you guys are ready for that.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jimmer was better than both those guys in the D-League. I don't think we can use the D League as a measure of NBA success.
Exactly. Kyle, like Jimmer, doesn't have the athleticism and discipline it takes to be in the NBA.

Luckily for Kyle, Pop loves him like he loves Matty :vomit:

[palangi]

Jimmer was better than both those guys in the D-League. I don't think we can use the D League as a measure of NBA success.
Jimmer is only good at shooting. That's it. He isn't any better than those two. Only scoring doesn't make you good. He struggles to score at the NBA level because of athleticism and length of players.

[palangi]

Exactly. Kyle, like Jimmer, doesn't have the athleticism and discipline it takes to be in the NBA.

Luckily for Kyle, Pop loves him like he loves Matty :vomit:
Not exactly at all!

[TheGreatYacht]

Not exactly at all!
You want the Spurs starting center next year to be Miles Plumlee.

Kyle is trash, and it's not that hard to take the homer glasses off and admit it.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jimmer is only good at shooting. That's it. He isn't any better than those two. Only scoring doesn't make you good. He struggles to score at the NBA level because of athleticism and length of players.
Fathead can't even score in warmups, he didn't have the motor to go after rebounds against OKC, and he's slower than Tim Duncan.

709868574211354625

All he has going for him is being 6'9, tbh..

[palangi]

You want the Spurs starting center next year to be Miles Plumlee.

Kyle is trash, and it's not that hard to take the homer glasses off and admit it.
Never said Kyle was good. Why do you make shit up?

[palangi]

Fathead can't even score in warmups, he didn't have the motor to go after rebounds against OKC, and he's slower than Tim Duncan.

All he has going for him is being 6'9, tbh..
pits funny to watch you use Kyle like I think he is good. You really don't have a clue.

[palangi]

You want the Spurs starting center next year to be Miles Plumlee.

Kyle is trash, and it's not that hard to take the homer glasses off and admit it.
and? Plumlee.

[TheGreatYacht]

Never said Kyle was good. Why do you make shit up?
You made it kind of obvious when you said I was wrong with what I said about Fathead...

[Ice009]

What is the update on these players? Are they ready to make the team?
Any news on other draft rights players , Livio Jean Charles , Ryan Richards, Denmon?

The update? The update is that they're all shit. If any of them were any good they'd be on the team already.

[palangi]

You made it kind of obvious when you said I was wrong with what I said about Fathead...
You like to read into things to be right. Assuming isn't a good thing for you.

[TheGreatYacht]

You like to read into things to be right. Assuming isn't a good thing for you.
You quoted a Fathead post saying this...

Not exactly at all!
^ that means you disagree with what I said about that scrub

Kyle is trash, and so is Miles Plumlee.

[palangi]

You quoted a Fathead post saying this...

^ that means you disagree with what I said about that scrub

Kyle is trash, and so is Miles Plumlee.
That means Jimmer is more of a scrub. Again assuming...definitely not your forte.

and Plumlee isn't trash. But way to try and attack something that has nothing to do with this thread. You seem to be reaching for something. Your assumptions are really making you reach for victory! Internet hero!

[gambit1990]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZYa7h4yz8

his frame/build is similar to kd's. 6'10", can catch and shoot from 3...

[Hoops Czar]

Fathead can't even score in warmups, he didn't have the motor to go after rebounds against OKC, and he's slower than Tim Duncan.


Slower than Tim Duncan at 40.

[TheGreatYacht]

Slower than Tim Duncan at 40.
You ain't lying :pctoss

[smaka]

You guys have too high hopes for Bertans, just saying... He's not even anything special in Europe...

[Chinook]

You guys have too high hopes for Bertans, just saying... He's not even anything special in Europe...

This is true. And to make it worse, he has been a prospect for five years. Even he's an example against stashing guys.

[TheGreatYacht]

You guys have too high hopes for Bertans, just saying... He's not even anything special in Europe...
^ this girl knows what she's talking about

Anyone can look good if you YouTube HIGHlights. If he was any good, RC would've brought him in already.

[palangi]

This is true. And to make it worse, he has been a prospect for five years. Even he's an example against stashing guys.
I wonder if injuries is the reason it has taken this long? With that said I really hope they bring mulitinov over now to develop here. Developing over seas doesn't seem to be working at all anymore. Get the kids here to the NBDL or with the big squad practicing against NBA talent.

[Chinook]

I wonder if injuries is the reason it has taken this long? With that said I really hope they bring mulitinov over now to develop here. Developing over seas doesn't seem to be working at all anymore. Get the kids here to the NBDL or with the big squad practicing against NBA talent.

I think they played a huge part, and it would have sucked for Bertans to have had all those injuries and recovery seasons during his rookie contract. But who knows what would have happened with him had he been stateside anyway? But yes, they can't keep messing around with letting other teams develop their players. That really hasn't ever worked for them. They used to do it for money, but now that they don't have enough talent to avoid developing more, it's not worth the savings.

[smaka]

^ this girl knows what he's talking about

Anyone can look good if you YouTube HIGHlights. If he was any good, RC would've brought him in already.

Fixed, bro ;)

I just don't know what people see in him. He is good 3pt shooter, but that's almost it.. Never been a defensive force or great rebounder or anything like that, that would make you say he would be a needed addition to the Spurs. Maybe as Bonner replacement if he retires, but that's it. He'll be 24 this year. Playing 20 mins in Euroleague, with 8ppg... Nothing spectacular. Adding knee problems he's already had when he was skinnier... Meh.

[HankChinaski]

The intrigue is his 3pt shooting if he can carry that over with a high clip percentage it is one thing sorely needed coming from the bench next season. He has question marks in other areas but shooting isn't one of them.

[palangi]

Fixed, bro ;)

I just don't know what people see in him. He is good 3pt shooter, but that's almost it.. Never been a defensive force or great rebounder or anything like that, that would make you say he would be a needed addition to the Spurs. Maybe as Bonner replacement if he retires, but that's it. He'll be 24 this year. Playing 20 mins in Euroleague, with 8ppg... Nothing spectacular. Adding knee problems he's already had when he was skinnier... Meh.
I think some are selling bertans a bit short. he is pretty athletic for his size and could be a very good defender from the weak side. Kind of like a kirilenko used to do. He runs the court very well. He also has good passing skills.
As a guy that can come off the bench and score some points from the 3 or the 4 he can be very useful.

[TheGreatYacht]

Fixed, bro ;)

I just don't know what people see in him. He is good 3pt shooter, but that's almost it.. Never been a defensive force or great rebounder or anything like that, that would make you say he would be a needed addition to the Spurs. Maybe as Bonner replacement if he retires, but that's it. He'll be 24 this year. Playing 20 mins in Euroleague, with 8ppg... Nothing spectacular. Adding knee problems he's already had when he was skinnier... Meh.
My bad, fixed :tu

A Bonner replacement is what I see as well. A solid 15th guy/project, shouldn't get playing time unless it's a "rest" game. What the Spurs need right now is a completely different second unit. It just wasn't the same without Baynes, Belinelli, and Cojo. Boris is just collecting checks at this point and Manu is reaching the "T-Mac Hawks" stage.

[Maddog]

This is true. And to make it worse, he has been a prospect for five years. Even he's an example against stashing guys.


You guys have too high hopes for Bertans, just saying... He's not even anything special in Europe...

And so what.
He was the 42nd pick in the draft, a little bonus from Indy in the George Hill- Kawhi Leonard trade.
Of the 18 players taken after him only 4 where in the NBA at the end of this past season (one barely) and only one has had a significant career.

The PATFO reputation is over rated. However, they do as well, probably better than any other FO in finding players. Be it draft picks are bringing in free agents. They miss more often than they hit. However, they keep trying. In 99 they got Manu, but does anyone remember Gordan Giricek? The Spurs took him 19 spots before.

[rastaspur]

Bertans provides a skillset our bench desperately needs, especially if manu retires and patty mills is shipped out.

He is a great shooter. He will get open looks and knock them down. He cant be a worse defender than bellinelli. Granted, its an apples to oranges comparison but the common trait between the two is shooting.

I love his shot mechanics. Nice form.

He comes off of screens in a rush alot and is nowhere near square to the rim when he jumps and always manages to get squared up in the air before the release. Hes a crafty shooter and thats definitely going to translate to the nba.

His defense is going to be the question mark. I think he can become serviceable and not a completely liability on that end, but i havent watched alot of footage to make a truly informed opinion.

[Obstructed_View]

Thomas barely played at an NBA level, and that had almost everything to do with being the 20th man on the Spurs rather than him being worse than guys like Reggie Williams. He was fine in the summer league and was well above average in the d-league (arguably the Toros' best player). I don't disagree that he doesn't have the physical tools to play in the NBA. But he seems capable of being a great player at the second level.

I can't speak to the D-League, but I watched every available second of the Summer leagues over the last several seasons. The strengths that he had there disappeared against teams in the pre-season. I'm fine having them invite him for another camp, but he's just undersized for his skillset, and that's never going to change unless he's re-invented himself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Cost us a 'ship. What more of a break do you need? :lmao

Dumbing shit down only reveals your level. Nothing more.

[objective]

Count me in as being pro-Bertans. I think people have a lack of imagination or are just jaded from so many stashes never coming or getting hurt all the time or burning the Spurs for another deal.

I still need to chart his shots, but going off memory his misses were largely because of shot selection, off the dribble, drifting, behind the back, low percentage shots. When he was set at a standstill or catching off curls he was deadliest. This is a guy who from three shot 47.4% in euroleague and 44.4% in the ACB. And that's with wild shots and not a whole lot of attention drawn by the other players like will happen with the Spurs.

Reminder: Marco Belineli was a trashcan journeyman who despite his shooting skill and rep for shooting still didn't really deliver. Most of his career was under 40%. His best year, by far, was that first spurs season when he shot 43.0%. Why? Because he was finally in a disciplined offense that made most of his shots good attempts. His wild tendencies were reined in and his crap dribble dribble fall out of bounds 25 footers with time on the clock were minimized.

It should be no shock that his worst season was this past season with the Kings where the offense had little discipline and a toxic out of control environment and he was left to his own instincts to vomit up garbage.

Bertans ability to shoot coming off screens so well at his size could be a huge asset to the offense. Running him around in action when defenses should be great.

And the rest of his game isn't bad either.

[HankChinaski]

I still need to chart his shots, but going off memory his misses were largely because of shot selection, off the dribble, drifting, behind the back, low percentage shots. When he was set at a standstill or catching off curls he was deadliest. This is a guy who from three shot 47.4% in euroleague and 44.4% in the ACB. And that's with wild shots and not a whole lot of attention drawn by the other players like will happen with the Spurs.

Reminder: Marco Belineli was a trashcan journeyman who despite his shooting skill and rep for shooting still didn't really deliver. Most of his career was under 40%. His best year, by far, was that first spurs season when he shot 43.0%.

Bertans ability to shoot coming off screens so well at his size could be a huge asset to the offense. Running him around in action when defenses should be great.

And the rest of his game isn't bad either.

I noticed these same things also. Charting his shots I don't know. But I am in the same view of him be valuable off the bench. That kind of shooting if carried over would have been huge this post season.

[HankChinaski]

He hasn't come over because of injury and rehab. If he hadn't gotten injured last season I was under the strong belief he would have been on the roster this current season.

[CP48107]

I actually don't think yall give anderson enough credit. dude is young, thrown into the fire early in his career and has a ton of upside. give the young buck a break.+1

[ace3g]

737847025375531008


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AqpCO1tEgs

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You made it kind of obvious when you said I was wrong with what I said about Fathead...

Your intense hatred for a guy who is being paid 900k to be 9-10th man is pretty hilarious.

We have bigger problems further up the roster, y'know? :lmao

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

his frame/build is similar to kd's. 6'10", can catch and shoot from 3...

Looks a bit like a more athletic, younger Bjelica.

Hell, bring the kid over. Time we injected some youth and hops into this team, especially in the big rotation.

[TheGoldStandard]

Bertans seems like the only legit guy that they could bring over and he would actually get minutes.. I'd love to get Mulitinov over here but doubt the spurs buy him out of his contract only to go hang out in the D League. Spurs have a real distrust for letting young guys play real minutes.

Bertans success will ultimately fall upon who he shares the court with in the second unit. Who's running point and what his role will be with the 2nd unit.

[palangi]

Your intense hatred for a guy who is being paid 900k to be 9-10th man is pretty hilarious.

We have bigger problems further up the roster, y'know? :lmao
It is funny watching him throw his fits. You are right though, he is barking about a problem way down the line.

But I will say if we can get Bertans over I wouldn't mind trading Anderson and seeing what we could get out of him.

[palangi]

Bertans seems like the only legit guy that they could bring over and he would actually get minutes.. I'd love to get Mulitinov over here but doubt the spurs buy him out of his contract only to go hang out in the D League. Spurs have a real distrust for letting young guys play real minutes.

Bertans success will ultimately fall upon who he shares the court with in the second unit. Who's running point and what his role will be with the 2nd unit.
I agree on Mulitinov with you. But I sure wish they would buck that trend and bring him over. His development would speed up in my opinion. Get him in the system. With the Toros or even the end of the Spurs bench. Getting him going right. And not euro ball right.

[TheGoldStandard]

I agree on Mulitinov with you. But I sure wish they would buck that trend and bring him over. His development would speed up in my opinion. Get him in the system. With the Toros or even the end of the Spurs bench. Getting him going right. And not euro ball right.

In the interest of saving money the Spurs have probably caused a lot of those draft n stash players never to get a shot at having a real NBA career. Sometimes it takes being thrown into a real fire in order to figure out if you have the mental fortitude to be a successful player. I just really hope Pop gets over himself if they bring over some of these players so they can get real rotational minutes and not be benched in the playoffs and then desperately thrown in there when all hope is lost.

[silverblackfan]

He hasn't come over because of injury and rehab. If he hadn't gotten injured last season I was under the strong belief he would have been on the roster this current season.

That was my belief also. He is 6'10" and can shoot very well off quick screens. Pop can find a use for him with the bench unit.

[Chinook]

I can't speak to the D-League, but I watched every available second of the Summer leagues over the last several seasons. The strengths that he had there disappeared against teams in the pre-season. I'm fine having them invite him for another camp, but he's just undersized for his skillset, and that's never going to change unless he's re-invented himself.

Almost everyone looks better against lower competition. Thomas was the primary scorer during his summer-league days. That's a lot different than being a guy who forced himself into the final slot of a training-camp roster. You're right that he didn't look very good, but he also didn't play much. He definitely needs to develop as a shooter, and his lack of height or quickness really limits him regardless. But from purely a production standpoint, Thomas as been fine. Dude looks to be a fine Euroleague player, and that's better than a good deal of prospects.

[Chinook]

And so what.
He was the 42nd pick in the draft, a little bonus from Indy in the George Hill- Kawhi Leonard trade.
Of the 18 players taken after him only 4 where in the NBA at the end of this past season (one barely) and only one has had a significant career.

The PATFO reputation is over rated. However, they do as well, probably better than any other FO in finding players. Be it draft picks are bringing in free agents. They miss more often than they hit. However, they keep trying. In 99 they got Manu, but does anyone remember Gordan Giricek? The Spurs took him 19 spots before.

Your response seems off-base. My point was that Bertans taking five years to get the to level he's currently at doesn't instill confidence in the draft-and-stash system. If this were two or three years ago, it would be good. But using a relatively high second for a guy who might be a tenth man five years later is really not that good. I think even with the injuries, Davis would be much farther along had he been brought over right away.

I will say, though, that PATFO aren't all that great at finding players. They're very good, but there are numerous teams that find gems just as well. Look at Denver, or Portland, or even Memphis. The Spurs' DnS record isn't that particularly impressive, especially when you take out Manu and Splitter (both of whom were great players when drafted and who don't owe much credit to the Spurs for their development overseas).

[tholdren]

Almost everyone looks better against lower competition. Thomas was the primary scorer during his summer-league days. That's a lot different than being a guy who forced himself into the final slot of a training-camp roster. You're right that he didn't look very good, but he also didn't play much. He definitely needs to develop as a shooter, and his lack of height or quickness really limits him regardless. But from purely a production standpoint, Thomas as been fine. Dude looks to be a fine Euroleague player, and that's better than a good deal of prospects.
Worse stats than Jon Diebler.

[objective]

I watched 55 of the 56 threes he attempted in euroleague this year, only one I couldn't find footage of as the video was clipped. 1 was a full court heave to end a quarter. And because he started the season late due to injury he missed the euroleague regular season and the chump teams, this was against primo competition.

I'll post a more detailed breakdown later, but he's going to be a bigger impact than I thought. He takes a dump on Marco as a shooter. He's going to have such gravity, he might have a chance to be a wobbly knee Korver.

I had him at 6-9 in the corners. And with his height and quick release he'll get them off.

[MaNu4Tres]

I watched 55 of the 56 threes he attempted in euroleague this year, only one I couldn't find footage of as the video was clipped. 1 was a full court heave to end a quarter. And because he started the season late due to injury he missed the euroleague regular season and the chump teams, this was against primo competition.

I'll post a more detailed breakdown later, but he's going to be a bigger impact than I thought. He takes a dump on Marco as a shooter. He's going to have such gravity, he might have a chance to be a wobbly knee Korver.

I had him at 6-9 in the corners. And with his height and quick release he'll get them off.

He reminds me of a lot of Korver or Klay coming off screens ( no I'm not saying Bertans = Klay) -- his smooth release and form is very similar. From the videos I've seen of him, he's surprisingly able to move defensively and I think he'll be able to defend a little bit. Hope the Spurs bring him over. I'll take him right now over Anderson for minutes at the three.

[objective]

I don't know if he'll be as effective off screens for the sole reason that the Spurs don't set/can't get away with the GS uncalled illegal moving screen. If Bertans got that he might be Klay's shooting equal.

Biggest surprise to me was that when he used a dribble he was 4-6. Wasn't what I expected.

[Chinook]

I watched 55 of the 56 threes he attempted in euroleague this year, only one I couldn't find footage of as the video was clipped. 1 was a full court heave to end a quarter. And because he started the season late due to injury he missed the euroleague regular season and the chump teams, this was against primo competition.

I'll post a more detailed breakdown later, but he's going to be a bigger impact than I thought. He takes a dump on Marco as a shooter. He's going to have such gravity, he might have a chance to be a wobbly knee Korver.

I had him at 6-9 in the corners. And with his height and quick release he'll get them off.


I don't know if he'll be as effective off screens for the sole reason that the Spurs don't set/can't get away with the GS uncalled illegal moving screen. If Bertans got that he might be Klay's shooting equal.

Biggest surprise to me was that when he used a dribble he was 4-6. Wasn't what I expected.

How many games were those 56 threes over? And thanks for any breakdown you do in advance.

As far as gravity, he's not likely to come into the league with it. You have to to make shots before teams will start treating you like a shooter. And you can miss a bunch of shots and still have gravity for a while. It lags. I'll take Bertans being a reliable NBA spot-up guy. Don't want him worrying about being more until he shows he can handle this level of competition.

[objective]

14 games. He played 15, but the first back from injury was under 4 minutes with no 3 attempts.

I think 9 in the top 16 round, 3 against Panathanaikos, and 2 games in the final four round

[TheDoctor]

Fathead can't even score in warmups, he didn't have the motor to go after rebounds against OKC, and he's slower than Tim Duncan.

709868574211354625

All he has going for him is being 6'9, tbh..

Damn Slotherson was hella mad at the rims for some reason. "I'm gonna destroy the hell outta ya mofos" :lmao

[tholdren]

kyle is better than thomas not even close

[ace3g]

Bertans running fast break


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZramZZIgak

[Chinook]

Feels like a good year to bring over Hanga as well. This will probably be his best chance to make the roster, has the team could certainly use some defense and poise in their guard rotation. If the Spurs spend their cap space on a big or bigs, they will not have much to spend on guards, so maybe the competition for him would be manageable.

[coachmac87]

Feels like a good year to bring over Hanga as well. This will probably be his best chance to make the roster, has the team could certainly use some defense and poise in their guard rotation. If the Spurs spend their cap space on a big or bigs, they will not have much to spend on guards, so maybe the competition for him would be manageable.

Bring over Hanga and let go of Simmons....Got it

[Chinook]

Bring over Hanga and let go of Simmons....Got it

If it works out that way, sure. For all the talk about Jonathon being cheap, Hanga is cheaper for longer. And Adam is only five months older. Seems like a good competition.

[objective]

I don't think Hanga is better than a Simmons. He isn't the playmaker that Simmons is and isn't the shooter. And I like Hanga.

[Chinook]

I don't think Hanga is better than a Simmons. He isn't the playmaker that Simmons is and isn't the shooter. And I like Hanga.

I never said he was better. I think this is Hanga's best chance to make the roster. And he might beat Simmons based on intangibles. Or they might both make the team. Or he might get cut. What's there to lose?

[coachmac87]

If it works out that way, sure. For all the talk about Jonathon being cheap, Hanga is cheaper for longer. And Adam is only five months older. Seems like a good competition.

No the fact you think Simmons isn't an NBA caliber player but Hagna is..

[Chinook]

No the fact you think Simmons isn't an NBA caliber player but Hagna is..

That's not even a sentence. Regardless, it's not even what I said.

[coachmac87]

That's not even a sentence. Regardless, it's not even what I said.

I'm not gonna dig up anything on you..

But you've said you don't think Simmons is an NBA caliber player and don't think he should/will be on the team next year.

Now you're saying Hagna should come over...

[DPG21920]

No the fact you think Simmons isn't an NBA caliber player but Hagna is..

All he's saying is bring Hanga over and let him compete with Simmons. This is the only real chance Hanga might have if his only competition is beating out Simmons.

He's not saying he will just that he should get the chance if he's ever going to get the chance.

[Chinook]

I'm not gonna dig up anything on you..

But you've said you don't think Simmons is an NBA caliber player and don't think he should/will be on the team next year.

Now you're saying Hagna should come over...

I don't think Simmons is a good player. NBA-caliber is a very murky designation. I totally don't think he should be gifted a spot, though. Guys need to earn things again.

[coachmac87]

I don't think Simmons is a good player. NBA-caliber is a very murky designation. I totally don't think he should be gifted a spot, though. Guys need to earn things again.


You're pretty much saying you don't think Simmoms is good enough to be on this team..but Hagna is good enough to make the team.

[coachmac87]

All he's saying is bring Hanga over and let him compete with Simmons. This is the only real chance Hanga might have if his only competition is beating out Simmons.

He's not saying he will just that he should get the chance if he's ever going to get the chance.



No need to come to his defense..

[objective]

I don't have a problem with bringing Hanga over, I'm just giving my assessment of him in the context of the roster.

I don't think he's he's good enough to play over Simmons. Now Anderson though ...

And I've watched his games going back to the Italian league. I'm not some guy who sees a ten second YouTube clip can and pontificates.

One thing I'll say thouyh is I think he's an NBA player, but a Spurs roster with Green and Kawhi and Simmons and Manu and Anderson and 2 point guard lineups & Bertans ... I think he's in street clothes.

Another team and he's probably a rotation guy, decent back up wing.

[SAGirl]

coachmack has this issue with Chinook since KMart... can't let go.

[Chinook]

You're pretty much saying you don't think Simmoms is good enough to be on this team..but Hagna is good enough to make the team.

If that's how you read it, it says more about you than me. It's not ambiguous. I think they should compete, because 14th men like Simmons simply shouldn't go into seasons without competition. That should go for the 13th and 15th men as well. If Simmons wins the competitions, that's fine. But if he doesn't, that's also fine.

[objective]

All things being equal I'd rather see Dangubic brought over Hanga. Because the d-league would probably be good for Dangubic rather than just watching in street clothes that I would expect Hanga to do

[coachmac87]

If that's how you read it, it says more about you than me. It's not ambiguous. I think they should compete, because 14th men like Simmons simply shouldn't go into seasons without competition. That should go for the 13th and 15th men as well. If Simmons wins the competitions, that's fine. But if he doesn't, that's also fine.


They should compete? Like on the roster together? Is Simmoms going to be on the Spurs next year or not man? If he's not why in the fuck would Hagna be?

[Chinook]

All things being equal I'd rather see Dangubic brought over Hanga. Because the d-league would probably be good for Dangubic rather than just watching in street clothes that I would expect Hanga to do

The main bonus I see in bringing Hanga over is that it might ease Bertans' transition to have a former teammate. Even if Adam is only there for a couple of months. And I don't think he'd be in street clothes if he made the team. I don't expect the team to keep him if they don't intend on playing him, because as you suggested, he doesn't have a ton of upside at this point. He'll either play well enough for them to have him as the 10th-12th man, or he'll go back to Europe.

[Chinook]

They should compete? Like on the roster together? Is Simmoms going to be on the Spurs next year or not man? If he's not why in the fuck would Hagna be?

You do realize that NBA teams get 20 spots between July and the end of October, right? There will be at least five guys who are on the roster this summer that won't be on it come opening night. Having the five guys who get booted be dudes who lost legit competitions rather than guys who had no chance should be a priority for the team. To that end, Hanga and Simmons would be two of the 20, and depending on how things shook out, they might both be part of the final 15 or one of them would be part, or neither of them. That's how training camp competitions work.

As far as your consistent belief that Simmons is somehow on a different tier than Hanga, remember that Jonathon ended the season as the 14th or 15th man on the team. Anderson was clearly ahead of him, as were Martin and Miller. He's not safe, and that's just being realistic. If he continues to be erratic, turnover happy and unable to defend guys without fouling them, then a savvy vet with more polish but less upside could unseat him. That would be a very good competition on paper. It's like the poor-man's version of Lance versus Green.

[coachmac87]

You do realize that NBA teams get 20 spots between July and the end of October, right? There will be at least five guys who are on the roster this summer that won't be on it come opening night. Having the five guys who get booted be dudes who lost legit competitions rather than guys who had no chance should be a priority for the team. To that end, Hanga and Simmons would be two of the 20, and depending on how things shook out, they might both be part of the final 15 or one of them would be part, or neither of them. That's how training camp competitions work.

As far as your consistent belief that Simmons is somehow on a different tier than Hanga, remember that Jonathon ended the season as the 14th or 15th man on the team. Anderson was clearly ahead of him, as were Martin and Miller. He's not safe, and that's just being realistic. If he continues to be erratic, turnover happy and unable to defend guys without fouling them, then a savvy vet with more polish but less upside could unseat him. That would be a very good competition on paper. It's like the poor-man's version of Lance versus Green.

And when do the Spurs have to decide to pick up option on Simmons? You think they'd cut him after training camp? Lol Hagna will be a summer league guy or whatever..

And now you suggesting Hagna could be on the team but Simmons won't? Are you really going that low to try and save your ass?

You could end this all now and just say Simmons will be on the team next year. But you won't...because deep down you don't think he should.

[SAGirl]

No mention is made here of their contract situations.

The only one that is realistic and I expect is Bertans, bc has his agent made noise b4 he had even come back from his rehab about it. All the planets finally aligned with him coming up healthy and having a good season.

D.Thomas didn't make the roster last season and I bet he goes back to Europe. His last season in the dleague he was free to get any 10-day contracts and didn't and he's not going to get paid in the d'league that is for sure.

I know nothing about any of the others, save a highlight video here or there on Hanga. He may actually be under contract and not remotely in the scene to come over for all I know.

[coachmac87]

And you also think Manu is going to retire right? So Simmons right now is technically the only SG on the roster not named Danny Green. Simmons is cheap and has a year of the system under his belt and his strengths are the Spurs weakness at the moment. There's nothing wrong bringing him back and seeing what he could provide...even if he's 15 on the roster again.

[Chinook]

And when do the Spurs have to decide to pick up option on Simmons? You think they'd cut him after training camp? Lol Hagna will be a summer league guy or whatever..

Simmons has a guarantee deadline of 07/30. It's not an option. And yes, I think they'd cut him after training camp, if they cut him at all. They always cut guys after camp. I don't think they'd cut him before then.


And now you suggesting Hagna could be on the team but Simmons won't? Are you really going that low to try and save your ass?

Just tell me now, are you drunk? Because I am not saying anything that's hard to understand. They should compete. I don't think Simmons is good enough to not have to compete. If he wins, then he deserves a spot. If he loses he doesn't. For a guy who has the the word coach in his name, you seem to have no idea what competitions are.


You could end this all now and just say Simmons will be on the team next year. But you won't...because deep down you don't think he should.

I don't think Simmons is a good player. I haven't been coy about that. I think he has to get better. So if he improves to the point that he beats out a solid player like Hanga, that's great. But if he can't, he doesn't really deserve to be kept. He's too old to keep talking about his upside. He's going to have to do it, and Hanga shouldn't be a big obstacle for him.

[Chinook]

And you also think Manu is going to retire right? So Simmons right now is technically the only SG on the roster not named Danny Green. Simmons is cheap and has a year of the system under his belt and his strengths are the Spurs weakness at the moment. There's nothing wrong bringing him back and seeing what he could provide...even if he's 15 on the roster again.

Or the Spurs could get better players at that spot. That's the real point. Simmons shouldn't even get a roster spot without a competition. He sure as shit shouldn't get a rotation spot by default.

[coachmac87]

Simmons has a guarantee deadline of 07/30. It's not an option. And yes, I think they'd cut him after training camp, if they cut him at all. They always cut guys after camp. I don't think they'd cut him before then.



Just tell me now, are you drunk? Because I am not saying anything that's hard to understand. They should compete. I don't think Simmons is good enough to not have to compete. If he wins, then he deserves a spot. If he loses he doesn't. For a guy who has the the word coach in his name, you seem to have no idea what competitions are.



I don't think Simmons is a good player. I haven't been coy about that. I think he has to get better. So if he improves to the point that he beats out a solid player like Hanga, that's great. But if he can't, he doesn't really deserve to be kept. He's too old to keep talking about his upside. He's going to have to do it, and Hanga shouldn't be a big obstacle for him.

I'm not arguing about competition..I'm arguing about evaluating talent and roster construction. The only player that needs to compete is Hagna and that's to prove he's an NBA player. Something Simmons already has.

I guess we view the Spurs roster and talent differently. I think Simmons has a ceiling of 10th player in rotation and 15th being the floor. He's cheap so yeah i guess cutting him wouldn't hurt but if the Spurs pick up the option and HAVE to pay him what's wrong locking him in at the 15th spot??

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm not arguing about competition..I'm arguing about evaluating talent and roster construction. The only player that needs to compete is Hagna and that's to prove he's an NBA player. Something Simmons already has.

I guess we view the Spurs roster and talent differently. I think Simmons has a ceiling of 10th player in rotation and 15th being the floor. He's cheap so yeah i guess cutting him wouldn't hurt but if the Spurs pick up the option and HAVE to pay him what's wrong locking him in at the 15th spot??

FWIW, I've watched quite a few K. Laboral games this season because of Bertans, and I'd say Hanga is the better all around player than Simmons is right now. Now, obviously it's very difficult to compare due to the level of competition but most of Simmons's career has been in summer league, D-league and garbage NBA minutes, whereas Hanga has played much more against good competition. If they're both brought to camp and forced to fight it out for a spot on the team then it'd only be good for the Spurs. There's no need to guarantee the 15th spot outright again, like last season, and lose on the chance to take flyers on other players throughout the season.

[coachmac87]

FWIW, I've watched quite a few K. Laboral games this season because of Bertans, and I'd say Hanga is the better all around player than Simmons is right now. Now, obviously it's very difficult to compare due to the level of competition but most of Simmons's career has been in summer league, D-league and garbage NBA minutes, whereas Hanga has played much more against good competition. If they're both brought to camp and forced to fight it out for a spot on the team then it'd only be good for the Spurs. There's no need to guarantee the 15th spot outright again, like last season, and lose on the chance to take flyers on other players throughout the season.

Take flyers? As NBA-Dleague caliber players who haven't had experience not only playing in the NBA but in the Spurs system?


You saw the plays Simmons made this year in the NBA right?? Imagine what you'd be telling me if he was doing that on Hagna team overseas..Simmons is an NBA player. He's was just the 14-15th player on a 67 win team so he gets overlooked and not the proper evaluation

[coachmac87]

Simmons Stregnths:

Athletic
Aggressive attacking the basket
Finishing at the rim
Drawing fouls
Potential guarding PGs
Cheap contract
System experience

Spurs Weakness:

1 SG on current roster
1 Player who can consistently penetrate and finish at rim
Terrible Defensive PGs
Athleticism
Needs cheap contracts to fill spots incase of max free agent


Seems like he fits like a fucking glove

[Chinook]

I'm not arguing about competition../QUOTE]

No, you are arguing about competition. You don't just have a one-player contest. There's no score where you go, "Yep, you've shown you're an NBA player. Come on aboard." Hanga would have to earn a spot by competing AGAINST someone else, preferably multiple other players. One of those guys would definitely be Simmons. And if Hanga wins, then Simmons has to beat out other guys to stay on. It doesn't matter if he's "already shown that he's an NBA player". That's not an actual milestone. He has to show he's one of the top 15 guys on the roster.

[QUOTE]I guess we view the Spurs roster and talent differently. I think Simmons has a ceiling of 10th player in rotation and 15th being the floor.

That doesn't make any sense. We have no idea where Simmons is going to stack up until we see who they add this summer.


what's wrong locking him in at the 15th spot??

The Spurs have seven players currently under a non-option contract next year. Seven. You don't "lock in a 15th spot" when you are going to bring in/bring back 13 other players. Your whole point seems to be that the Spurs shouldn't try to upgrade from Simmons, and that makes no sense. They need to get the best players they can. Their previous 15th guy shouldn't even be in their consideration. The Spurs should acquire as many guys as they can to compete for the bottom of the roster, especially at guard and center.

[Chinook]

Take flyers? As NBA-Dleague caliber players who haven't had experience not only playing in the NBA but in the Spurs system?

Yes. That's what "taking flyers" means.


You saw the plays Simmons made this year in the NBA right??

Yes. Even you know he was a scrub. You spent most of our previous conversations about this talking about how cheap he is and how he can be a better player with time. Dude wasn't a very good one last year.

[Chinook]

Simmons Stregnths:

Athletic

Overrated. The Spurs will probably draft a more athletic player than Simmons this month. Even if they don't, most teams have multiple players in that category. The way people talk about him, you'd think he were prime Gerald Green.


Aggressive attacking the basket

Not rare. The Spurs can and should acquire at least one guard who can do this better than Simmons. His bad handles hurts his ability to do this, as most of us saw.


Finishing at the rim

Yes, but also not rare.


Drawing fouls

Yes, and that's not all that common.


Potential guarding PGs

Nah. He sucked doing that.


Cheap contract

You need to get off this. Everyone on his tier is cheap. Most of the guys competing against him will be as cheap or cheaper. "Cheap contract" is a plus for guys like Covington who already play at a high level and are locked into insanely low deals for multiple years. As a 15th man, Simmons is getting paid what he's worth.


System experience

Overrated. He has to be able to apply that, which he'll only show by competing


1 SG on current roster

This hurts Simmons more than helps him. That makes it more likely that the Spurs will add a notable player in addition to prospects.


1 Player who can consistently penetrate and finish at rim

Yes, this does help him. But again, the Spurs will probably attack that issue this summer.


Terrible Defensive PGs

No need to add a terrible defensive SG to that.


Athleticism

Totally explains why Anderson, Martin and Miller got the nod over Simmons last year.


Needs cheap contracts to fill spots incase of max free agent

This hurts him more than helps. There will be 10-12 cheap contracts on the roster next season. His deal won't stand out.

[coachmac87]

Well the Spurs are higher on Simmons than you are..just like they were on Kevin Martin.

If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?

Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..

Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?

[TheGreatYacht]

Hanga should come in and compete with Fathead for a roster spot, tbh

[MaNu4Tres]

Well the Spurs are higher on Simmons than you are..just like they were on Kevin Martin.

If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?

Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..

Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?

Simmons isn't going anywhere. He has a great chance to be part of the rotation if he has a good summer. He has a skill-set and talent that is impossible to find on the open market for 800k -- hell for anything under 5 million. Pop didn't play him in the playoffs because he felt he wasn't ready and because there were more experienced options. He did the same thing with Splitter and Hill.

Chinook just goes the extra mile to try to justify many of his contradicting and outlandish takes. He's the guy who wanted Spurs to go after O'Quinn for 8 million per, the guy who thinks paying Baby Davis II (Sullinger) 12+ mil per is the answer, the guy who thinks West shld start because he can become a reliable three point shooter if Pop just asks him to, I can go on and on like he does on subjective outlandish takes but I don't have the time like he does and I'm sure you don't either.

[palangi]

Well the Spurs are higher on Simmons than you are..just like they were on Kevin Martin.

If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?

Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..

Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?

I agree with this here.

It's funny to see Chinook bag on Simmons handles when he is the president of the danny green brigade. Mr can't dribble at all. Chinook lets things get to personal I wouldn't sweat him. His following is dwindling with his arrogant attitude.

Personally I'd like to see simmons make that next step and be the backup. He is athletic and we need that

[Chinook]

Well the Spurs are higher on Simmons than you are..just like they were on Kevin Martin.

As I told you with Martin, the Spurs liking a guy doesn't make him better. And clearly, that's the way it turned out. I'm not surprised you think the Martin situation validated your take.


If Simmons is as bad as you say he is and him making the team isn't very high why didn't they let him go instead of Butler?

Dude, this is getting ridiculous. I've never said Simmons wasn't likely to make the team. I have said that he's not a lock and that I'd personally like to see them bring in guys who can push him out or at least push him to improve. I've said too many times that I am not trying to predict the Spurs' moves or align myself with their opinions. People accept this with Bonner, and some folks do with Anderson. So why this is controversial is beyond me.


Cmon man. I'm not here with my Simmons pom poms saying he will be a consistent rotation player but he exceeded expectations this year. He didn't play over Martin, Anderson and Miller because of postseason experience..

Lol at thinking Anderson got the nod because of his handful of garbage-time minutes against the Clippers.


Again please give me options of guards you think can be prospects that can beat out Simmons or veterans that'll come on the cheap? We will know if Simmons will be on the team before July 1. If they GURANTEE his contract they won't cut him after camp..Why pay for him to play elsewhere? Why pay another salary to replace him on top of that?

They paid for Fredette to play in the d-league. They cut Daye, McCallum and Butler on guaranteed deals. It's all about having a better options. And no, I don't have to name guards who will be better than him. I have gone through quite a few scenarios where Simmons is on the bubble. Can just be as simple as bringing back the top four guards, drafting one, signing Bertans and having a guy like Hanga or a vet ring-chaser bump him out. Or if they spend their cap space on a guard to replace Manu and do the rest of that. Is that likely? Not very. But it's very possible, and honestly ideal, considering how the guard rotation fell apart last year. They need more talent there, and if they add it, Simmons will have to fight for a spot.

[coachmac87]

As I told you with Martin, the Spurs liking a guy doesn't make him better. And clearly, that's the way it turned out. I'm not surprised you think the Martin situation validated your take.



Dude, this is getting ridiculous. I've never said Simmons wasn't likely to make the team. I have said that he's not a lock and that I'd personally like to see them bring in guys who can push him out or at least push him to improve. I've said too many times that I am not trying to predict the Spurs' moves or align myself with their opinions. People accept this with Bonner, and some folks do with Anderson. So why this is controversial is beyond me.



Lol at thinking Anderson got the nod because of his handful of garbage-time minutes against the Clippers.



They paid for Fredette to play in the d-league. They cut Daye, McCallum and Butler on guaranteed deals. It's all about having a better options. And no, I don't have to name guards who will be better than him. I have gone through quite a few scenarios where Simmons is on the bubble. Can just be as simple as bringing back the top four guards, drafting one, signing Bertans and having a guy like Hanga or a vet ring-chaser bump him out. Or if they spend their cap space on a guard to replace Manu and do the rest of that. Is that likely? Not very. But it's very possible, and honestly ideal, considering how the guard rotation fell apart last year. They need more talent there, and if they add it, Simmons will have to fight for a spot.



Just answer yourself this question and maybe it'd help you realize something. Why'd they keep Simmons over Butler? You obviously thought Butler was the better "short term" answer. So why they let him go and not Simmons? Just answer me that question honestly and maybe we can end this lol

[Chinook]

Just ask yourself this question and maybe it'd help you realize something. Why'd they keep Simmons over Butler? You obviously thought Butler was the better "short term" answer. So why they let him go and not Simmons? Just answer me that question honestly and maybe we can end this lol

No. This is a logical fallacy. We've been over this too many time. You tried this same shit with Kevin Martin, and that should have actually shown you why your reasoning was flawed. Makes no sense to double down now.

[coachmac87]

No. This is a logical fallacy. We've been over this too many time. You tried this same shit with Kevin Martin, and that should have actually shown you why your reasoning was flawed. Makes no sense to double down now.

Fine I'll answer it for you. Simmons showed the Spurs more at the time than Butler did. You disagreed on that and felt maybe Butler could've given more. You could've been right but they didn't..I happen to think a 9-10 year age difference between Butler and Simmons was a factor in the decision. Spurs didn't want to give up on Simmons and with the failure of Martin and the possibly retirement of Manu doesn't change that IMO.

You have a tough time figuring out what the Spurs are thinking and were wrong about the Martin/Butler arguments we had. Why should I feel you're right on Simmons when you can't make a legit case?


It's quite simple. Either they thought Simmons was a better player/option THIS year or they felt his upside was too much of a risk to just let go..You get it now? Or you still going to question my basketball intelligence because of my name?

[SAGirl]

They retained Simmons to give him a chance to improve in the offseason like they did with others before him. He flashed potential but ultimately it's undeniable that he has poor handles for a guy whose game is slashing and he was too foul prone. Sometimes he was benched bc he picked up 3-4 quick fouls. It wasn't even Pop benching him as a teaching lesson.

Its up to him whether he can improve in his second season but he's getting the same opportunity guys like Reggie Williams, Daye, Ayers, and DeColo got all of whom were eventually cut or released when they didn't show any improvement and others beat them in the rotation. Guys like Baynes improved eventually, as did Patty Mills.

It's worth it to give him an opportunity to see if he improves, but if he comes back the same he could very well play even less and I doubt the Spurs are just like "Ok you got it" They may actually try to get someone better for the bench if Manu retires.

[coachmac87]

For someone with "bad handles" sure does get into the paint quite a bit...

The thing Simmons needs to work on is midrange game and 3ball

[SAGirl]

For someone with "bad handles" sure does get into the paint quite a bit...

The thing Simmons needs to work on is midrange game and 3ball
He does have bad handles and they will show up when he plays real minutes not garbage time, when guys play no defense. He did TO at a high rate and it wasn't passing, it was simply him getting stripped or losing the handle. He had the same trouble in the dleague. He's a good cutter, and catches lobs. Not all of his finishes are off the dribble. It's actually when he has to make plays off the dribble that his weaknesses do show. But whatever, you are actually a fan of his pom poms and all, and I am not against Simms. But him getting beat in the rotation by Anderson was of his own doing, and next season there is likely to be more competition.

If he stays the same he's likely gone.

[Hoops Czar]

They retained Simmons to give him a chance to improve in the offseason like they did with others before him. He flashed potential but ultimately it's undeniable that he has poor handles for a guy whose game is slashing and he was too foul prone. Sometimes he was benched bc he picked up 3-4 quick fouls. It wasn't even Pop benching him as a teaching lesson.

Its up to him whether he can improve in his second season but he's getting the same opportunity guys like Reggie Williams, Daye, Ayers, and DeColo got all of whom were eventually cut or released when they didn't show any improvement and others beat them in the rotation. Guys like Baynes improved eventually, as did Patty Mills.

It's worth it to give him an opportunity to see if he improves, but if he comes back the same he could very well play even less and I doubt the Spurs are just like "Ok you got it" They may actually try to get someone better for the bench if Manu retires.

He'll be 27 by the time training camp rolls around so I doubt he's going to improve much beyond what you saw last year. He's what you call a tweener, too good for the D-league but, not quite good enough to make it at the NBA level. The Spurs are absolutely screwed if Simmons somehow squeezes into the rotation with Anderson. I'd like to say this in the most sincere, unoffensive way that I can without stomping all over your feelings but the adjectives that best describe his game are filthy, trashy, obscene, crummy, feculent, putrid and stinky.

[SAGirl]

He'll be 27 by the time training camp rolls around so I doubt he's going to improve much beyond what you saw last year. He's what you call a tweener, too good for the D-league but, not quite good enough to make it at the NBA level. The Spurs are absolutely screwed if Simmons somehow squeezes into the rotation with Anderson. I'd like to say this in the most sincere, unoffensive way that I can without stomping all over your feelings but the adjectives that best describe his game are filthy, trashy, obscene, crummy, feculent, putrid and stinky.
:lol Thanks for being polite. :toast
Most here are not.

[Chinook]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx0mS68xUnU

Hanga has talent. The things he's excelling at in this vid will be there in the NBA. It would be awesome to have another ball-hawk on the roster.

[Chinook]

He does have bad handles and they will show up when he plays real minutes not garbage time, when guys play no defense. He did TO at a high rate and it wasn't passing, it was simply him getting stripped or losing the handle. He had the same trouble in the dleague. He's a good cutter, and catches lobs. Not all of his finishes are off the dribble. It's actually when he has to make plays off the dribble that his weaknesses do show. But whatever, you are actually a fan of his pom poms and all, and I am not against Simms. But him getting beat in the rotation by Anderson was of his own doing, and next season there is likely to be more competition.

If he stays the same he's likely gone.

He definitely had his TO troubles dribbling. It wasn't god awful, but it was certainly bad enough for him to lose points on his slashing. The most concerning thing for me is that Simmons was very prone to melting down for stretches. It wasn't like he'd pick up a TO or two a game. He'd have games where he just couldn't do anything right. And he had some games (mostly garbage time but some legit games too) where he'd hold it together. He lacks poise, and that's why I think he has to compete for a spot. He seemed to play his worst when he wasn't being coddled and guaranteed a job. He's going to have to get over that.

[Chinook]

You have a tough time figuring out what the Spurs are thinking and were wrong about the Martin/Butler arguments we had. Why should I feel you're right on Simmons when you can't make a legit case?

I said Butler was better than Martin. You said he was't because the Spurs picked Martin over Butler. I pointed out to you that is a fallacy. Martin was by almost any measure the worst Spur on the team last season, much worse than Butler. There's no way you or anyone else who watched the team last season can argue. The Spurs were wrong, and you were wrong. There's no shame in being wrong. I thought Ayres would be a starter one day. But your issue is that you don't want to believe you're wrong.

Last time, seriously: I am not trying to predict what the Spurs will do. I don't care what they will do. I'll find that out when it happens. Instead, I am talking about what I think they SHOULD do. Sometimes that matches up with reality. Sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, sometimes it works out for the better, and sometimes it doesn't.

Read over that thread yourself:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8449584#post8449584

Whipping out the same tired, "Who are you to disagree with PATFO?" line again.

[palangi]

:lol Thanks for being polite. :toast
Most here are not.

There's just meanies everywhere. It's a rough world. I hope your tender little heart will be ok.

[SAGirl]

He definitely had his TO troubles dribbling. It wasn't god awful, but it was certainly bad enough for him to lose points on his slashing. The most concerning thing for me is that Simmons was very prone to melting down for stretches. It wasn't like he'd pick up a TO or two a game. He'd have games where he just couldn't do anything right. And he had some games (mostly garbage time but some legit games too) where he'd hold it together. He lacks poise, and that's why I think he has to compete for a spot. He seemed to play his worst when he wasn't being coddled and guaranteed a job. He's going to have to get over that.
That is a good observation. I don't think I have seen you summarize it this well and you are right. :tu
I have attributed his mistakes to just him not being that good and thus elite competition getting the better of him, but there can be lack of concentration or frustration. You are right that if he makes a mistake he lets that affect the rest of his game, and he has had terrible games where absolutely nothing goes right. He was absolutely ghastly in preseason too when he was under pressure and he played his worst for the season again when he was counted on bc we were understaffed.

[palangi]

He definitely had his TO troubles dribbling. It wasn't god awful, but it was certainly bad enough for him to lose points on his slashing. The most concerning thing for me is that Simmons was very prone to melting down for stretches. It wasn't like he'd pick up a TO or two a game. He'd have games where he just couldn't do anything right. And he had some games (mostly garbage time but some legit games too) where he'd hold it together. He lacks poise, and that's why I think he has to compete for a spot. He seemed to play his worst when he wasn't being coddled and guaranteed a job. He's going to have to get over that.

Wait a minute...are you talking about green or simmons?

[Chinook]

Wait a minute...are you talking about green or simmons?

You do realize that I never said Green has good handles, right?

[palangi]

You do realize that I never said Green has good handles, right?

I do realize you are the president of the green can club. Your harsh judgement of simmons sounds very similar to your boy.

Funny you are.

[Chinook]

Green had 24 lost ball or charge TOs in 2061 minutes played last year. Simmons had 25 in 813. They don't have the same TO problems. That's mainly because Green doesn't have to drive to score or especially to be useful. Sure, if he could do it, that'd be awesome. But he'd also be making $20 Million a year if he could.

[Chinook]

I do realize you are the president of the green can club. Your harsh judgement of simmons sounds very similar to your boy.

Funny you are.

Not really. Green can't dribble, so he doesn't try. He can shoot and defend at elite levels. And he does that. Simmons can't do that things, so him not being able to dribble is a bigger issue.

[palangi]

Green had 24 lost ball or charge TOs in 2061 minutes played last year. Simmons had 25 in 813. They don't have the same TO problems. That's mainly because Green doesn't have to drive to score or especially to be useful. Sure, if he could do it, that'd be awesome. But he'd also be making $20 Million a year if he could.

That's because green is afraid to dribble. And teams know it.

There is more to the game than stats. They don't always tell the whole truth.

[palangi]

Not really. Green can't dribble, so he doesn't try. He can shoot and defend at elite levels. And he does that. Simmons can't do that things, so him not being able to dribble is a bigger issue.
Well I guess 40% from 3 is not being able to shoot?

Green was on fire this year.
And I think he has overrated D

[Hoops Czar]

I do realize you are the president of the green can club. Your harsh judgement of simmons sounds very similar to your boy.

Funny you are.

Not sure if intentional or not but, it works!

[SAGirl]

There's just meanies everywhere. It's a rough world. I hope your tender little heart will be ok.
I was using humor and sarcasm of my own to share a little joke right back that C shared with me. You have no sense of humor whatsoever so I have no desire to amuse your cold heart out. lol

[palangi]

I was using humor and sarcasm of my own to share a little joke right back that C shared with me. You have no sense of humor whatsoever so I have no desire to amuse your cold heart out. lol

I love how you retreat when called out. I'm sorry sweet heart

[SAGirl]

Danny makes his money on elite defense and the 3 ball, his game is not slashing and playmaking like Simmons' allegedly is.

[SAGirl]

I love how you retreat when called out. I'm sorry sweet heart
I have no desire to simply argue just to argue which is what you enjoy in these forums... :troll:clap:baby:corn:

[palangi]

Danny makes his money on elite defense and the 3 ball, his game is not slashing and playmaking like Simmons' allegedly is.

Overrated elite D.

And again, because I know you probably missed it because of your tears from the men people, but simmons shot 40%.
Better than the 10 million dollar man

[palangi]

I have no desire to simply argue just to argue which is what you enjoy in these forums... :troll:clap:baby:corn:

I'm just a mean rude man. I'm sorry. Tender heart.

[poeticism707]

All useless bums in the NBA game or they would have been here by now.

[YGWHI]

Hanga and Bertans are playing the semis against the Barcelona, Hanga was the best Baskonia player in game 1 but Bertans had a poor performance. Next game is on Sunday.

[objective]

I'm going to watch every Simmons turnover. Because while he was a little loose considering his inexperience + occasional ball handling role I'll trust my own eyes.

One plus for Hanga is that he can play SF better, he's bigger than his height with his squat neck and head. I might prefer him to Anderson.

[r0drig0lac]

Spurs need slashers, Hanga should have their chance this year

[objective]

Re: Bertans - I think I'll just do a YouTube video of all his attempts rather than a big write up so people can see for themselves.

Re: Simmons and his ball handling ... I've begun watching his games. I've skipped around a little ... where is the career killing handle? I've seen some live turnovers of bad passes around the horn, getting stripped after the gather as he goes up, poor passes when jumping without a plan, etc. In fact, right now I'm at halftime of the last game against Dallas ... and his handle looked fine? Is that supposed to be the high and sloppy dribble that cripples him? Sure looked like he was able to drive and attack to get to the rim and score, ISO off the switch to shoot, feed Boban for the score. He gets a palming call in the 3rd, but not a doubt caster tbh

Maybe he actually improved his game some with experience? Maybe a guy who had rarely played against decent competition his whole life, and after the system shock adjustment of playing against NBA athletes could get better with coaching and time in his rookie season.

Maybe I'm imagining something, I haven't slept much. Anyone else want to watch that last Dallas game and tell me about his ball handling? It's not like Dallas was tanking, they were playing for position and played all their guys.

[T Park]

Simmons's ball handling was mediocre. There were a lot of times hed have open pathways to the rim and bounce it off his feet or legs.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbHsQmMoNA

[SAGirl]

Frankly, it will only be for the best in the team's interest to bring in guys to compete. I am nit sure if Hanga is interested. There are players that can find themselves in a De Colo situation. They were starting games in Europe and here they will have to compete for about 10-12 minutes with both Anderson and Simmons.

May the best man win! It will only make these guys better or we find a new gem of a player. What is there to be arguing about?

[objective]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbHsQmMoNA

I watched the game and while Hanga ended with decent stats, I don't think he had an impressive game. To start, the coaching was bizarre, as the game started with Bertans and Bourousis on the bench so some scrubs could start. By the time they got in the game was basically over. Laboral just didn't have any shot creation without Bourousis threat down low and Bertans getting attention. One problem is what I've been posting, is that Hanga can't create much for himself or others.