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MannyIsGod
10-02-2005, 12:43 AM
Bush Misreads History

by Ted Galen Carpenter



In a September 21 speech insisting that the United States must "stay the course" in Iraq, President Bush warned that an early military withdrawal from that country would encourage Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. Weak U.S. responses to challenges over the past quarter century have emboldened such people, Bush argued. Among other examples, the president cited the decisions to withdraw troops from Lebanon and Somalia after American forces suffered casualties.

Hawkish pundits have made similar allegations for years. But it is a curious line of argument with ominous implications. President Bush and his supporters clearly assume that the United States should have stayed in both Lebanon and Somalia. The mistake, in their opinion, was not the original decision to intervene but to limit American losses and terminate the missions. This is a classic case of learning the wrong lessons from history.

Even hawkish Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA), who was a Special Assistant to President Reagan in the 1980s, admits that the decision to send troops into Lebanon was perhaps the worst foreign policy mistake of Reagan's presidency. The United States promptly found itself in the middle of a civil war as a de facto ally of the Christian-dominated Lebanese government. American troops became entangled in skirmishes with Muslim militias, and U.S. battleships off the coast proceeded to shell Muslim villages. The disastrous intervention culminated with an attack by a suicide car bomber against the Marine barracks in Beirut that left 241 Marines dead. A few months later, President Reagan cut his losses and pulled out of Lebanon.

The Somalia intervention was equally ill-starred. Although President George H.W. Bush sent troops into that country on a humanitarian relief mission, President Clinton soon signed on to the U.N.'s far more ambitious nation-building project. The United States then became entangled in another multisided civil war. One faction, headed by warlord Mohammed Farah Aideed, increasingly regarded the U.S. forces as an obstacle to its goals. When Washington decided to carry out the U.N.'s edict to arrest Aideed and his followers, Aideed's militias struck back with a vengeance. The skirmishes culminated in an ambush in the capital city, Mogadishu, which left 18 elite Army Rangers dead. Shortly thereafter, President Clinton withdrew U.S. forces.

Both Reagan and Clinton made the right decision. It was not a mistake to withdraw and limit our losses. The real mistake was the decision to intervene in such strategically and economically irrelevant snake pits in the first place.

Those who argue that the United States should have stayed the course in Lebanon and Somalia apparently have a masochistic streak. Both countries were in the throes of massive disorder. Indeed, Iraq today is relatively stable compared to either Lebanon or Somalia at the time of the U.S. intervention. Staying on after the initial disasters would have entangled the United States in multi-year ventures that likely would have cost thousands of American lives. Indeed, it is entirely possible that we would still be bogged down in those quagmires.

Yes, Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups apparently concluded that the Lebanon and Somalia episodes showed that U.S. leaders and the American people have no stomach for enduring murky missions that entail significant casualties. They are likely to draw a similar lesson if the United States withdraws from Iraq without an irrefutable triumph. Indeed, that is why it is imperative to be cautious about a decision to intervene in the first place.

Military missions should not be undertaken unless there are indisputably vital American security interests at stake. No such interests were at stake in Lebanon and Somalia. Once the missions turned sour, U.S. policymakers were left with a choice between a bad option and a worse one. The bad option was to withdraw, even though the move might embolden America's adversaries. But it would have been worse to have persisted with foolish and unnecessary ventures at the cost of far more American lives--and with still no realistic prospect of success.

The Bush administration confronts a similar choice today in Iraq. A decision to withdraw and leave Iraq to its own fate is not without cost. America's terrorist adversaries will certainly portray a pull-out as a defeat for U.S. policy. The cost of staying on indefinitely in a dire security environment is even worse. President Bush and his advisors need to consider the possibility that the United States might stay in Iraq for many years to come and still not achieve its policy goals. Moreover, the costs of such a strategy in blood and treasure would be far more than the nearly $200 billion already spent and the 1,900 fatalities already suffered.

As in Lebanon and Somalia, it would have been better if the United States had never launched the ill-advised nation-building crusade in Iraq. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and so we now must choose between two bad alternatives. Since President Bush has learned the wrong lessons from history, he seems determined to pursue the least advisable one.

This article appeared in the Orange County Register on September 29, 2005.


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I'm not really in agreement with the articles conclusion regarding Iraq, but I definetly see the point regarding American foreign policey lessons to be a very important one

Vashner
10-02-2005, 01:06 AM
Sigh..

The somalia point is bogus..... it's the worst place on earth right now.

And the only UN nation without any government... they people are suffering.
Millions have died from hunger since Clinton bailed.

The story of Somalia is not over... but it is not a success.

Vashner
10-02-2005, 01:12 AM
9/1/04 NYC RNC Convention Keynote Address Sen Zell Miller (D) Georgia

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Since I last stood...

Thank you very much.

Since I last stood in this spot, a whole new generation of the Miller family has been born: four great-grandchildren. Along with all the other members of our close-knit family, they are my and Shirley's most precious possessions. And I know that's how you feel about your family, also.

Like you, I think of their future, the promises and the perils they will face. Like you, I believe that the next four years will determine what kind of world they will grow up in.

And like you, I ask: Which leader is it today that has the vision, the willpower and, yes, the backbone to best protect my family?

The clear answer to that question has placed me in this hall with you tonight. For my family is more important than my party.

There is but one man to whom I am willing to entrust their future, and that man's name is George W. Bush.

In the summer of 1940, I was an 8-year-old boy living in a remote little Appalachian valley. Our country was not yet at war, but even we children knew that there were some crazy man across the ocean who would kill us if they could.

President Roosevelt, in a speech that summer, told America, "All private plans, all private lives, have been in a sense repealed by an overriding public danger."

In 1940, Wendell Wilkie was the Republican nominee. And there is no better example of someone repealing their "private plans" than this good man.

He gave Roosevelt the critical support he needed for a peacetime draft, an unpopular idea at the time.

And he made it clear that he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue.

Shortly before Wilkie died, he told a friend that if he could write his own epitaph and had to choose between "here lies a president" or "here lies one who contributed to saving freedom," he would prefer the latter.

Where are such statesmen today? Where is the bipartisanship in this country when we need it most?

Today, at the same time young Americans are dying in the sands of Iraq and the mountains of Afghanistan, our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrats' manic obsession to bring down our commander in chief.

What has happened to the party I've spent my life working in? I can remember when Democrats believed that it was the duty of America to fight for freedom over tyranny. It was Democratic President Harry Truman who pushed the Red Army out of Iran, who came to the aid of Greece when Communists threatened to overthrow it, who stared down the Soviet blockade of West Berlin by flying in supplies and saving the city.

Time after time in our history, in the face of great danger, Democrats and Republicans worked together to ensure that freedom would not falter.

But not today.

Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator.

And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators.

Tell that to the one-half of Europe that was freed because Franklin Roosevelt led an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the lower half of the Korean Peninsula that is free because Dwight Eisenhower commanded an army of liberators, not occupiers.

Tell that to the half a billion men, women and children who are free today from the Poland to Siberia, because Ronald Reagan rebuilt a military of liberators, not occupiers.

Never in the history of the world has any soldier sacrificed more for the freedom and liberty of total strangers than the American soldier.

And, our soldiers don't just give freedom abroad, they preserve it for us here at home.

For it has been said so truthfully that it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who gives that protester the freedom he abuses to burn that flag.

No one should dare to even think about being the commander in chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home.

But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking, America is the problem, not the solution. They don't believe there is any real danger in the world except that which America brings upon itself through our clumsy and misguided foreign policy.

It is not their patriotism, it is their judgment that has been so sorely lacking.

They claimed Carter's pacifism would lead to peace. They were wrong.

They claimed Reagan's defense buildup would lead to war. They were wrong.

And no pair has been more wrong, more loudly, more often than the two Senators from Massachusetts, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.

Together, Kennedy and Kerry have opposed the very weapons system that won the Cold War and that are now winning the war on terror.

Listing all the weapon systems that Senator Kerry tried his best to shut down sounds like an auctioneer selling off our national security.

But Americans need to know the facts.

The B-1 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, dropped 40 percent of the bombs in the first six months of Enduring Freedom.

The B-2 bomber, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered air strikes against the Taliban in Afghanistan and Hussein's command post in Iraq.

The F-14A Tomcats, that Senator Kerry opposed, shot down

Gadhafi's Libyan MiGs over the Gulf of Sidra.

The modernized F-14D, that Senator Kerry opposed, delivered missile strikes against Tora Bora.

The Apache helicopter, that Senator Kerry opposed, took out those Republican Guard tanks in Kuwait in the Gulf War.

The F-15 Eagles, that Senator Kerry opposed, flew cover over our Nation's capital and this very city after 9/11.

I could go on and on and on -- against the Patriot Missile that shot down Saddam Hussein's scud missiles over Israel; against the Aegis air-defense cruiser; against the Strategic Defense Initiative; against the Trident missile, against, against, against.

This is the man who wants to be the commander in chief of our U.S. Armed Forces?

U.S. forces armed with what? Spit balls?

Twenty years of votes can tell you much more about a man than 20 weeks of campaign rhetoric.

Campaign talk tells people who you want them to think you are. How you vote tells people who you really are deep inside.

Senator Kerry has made it clear that he would use military force only if approved by the United Nations.

Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. I want Bush to decide.

John Kerry, who says he doesn't like outsourcing, wants to outsource our national security. That's the most dangerous outsourcing of all. This politician wants to be leader of the free world. Free for how long?

For more than 20 years, on every one of the great issues of freedom and security, John Kerry has been more wrong, more weak and more wobbly than any other national figure.

As a war protester, Kerry blamed our military.

As a senator, he voted to weaken our military. And nothing shows that more sadly and more clearly than his vote this year to deny protective armor for our troops in harm's way, far away.

George W. Bush understands that we need new strategies to meet new threats.

John Kerry wants to refight yesterday's war. President Bush believes we have to fight today's war and be ready for tomorrow's challenges. President Bush is committed to providing the kind of forces it takes to root out terrorists, no matter what spider hole they may hide in or what rock they crawl under. George W. Bush wants to grab terrorists by the throat and not let them go to get a better grip.

From John Kerry, they get a "yes/no/maybe" bowl of mush that can only encourage our enemies and confuse our friends.

I first got to know George W. Bush when we served as governors together. I admire this man. I am moved by the respect he shows the first lady, his unabashed love for his parents and his daughters, and the fact that he is unashamed of his belief that God is not indifferent to America.

I can identify with someone who has lived that line in "Amazing Grace" -- "was blind, but now I see." And I like the fact that he's the same man on Saturday night that he is on Sunday morning.

He is not a slick talker but he is a straight shooter. And where I come from, deeds mean a lot more than words.

I have knocked on the door of this man's soul and found someone home, a God-fearing man with a good heart and a spine of tempered steel, the man I trust to protect my most precious possession: my family.

This election will change forever the course of history, and that's not any history. It's our family's history.

The only question is: How? The answer lies with each of us. And like many generations before us, we've got some hard choosing to do. Right now the world just cannot afford an indecisive America. Faint-hearted self-indulgence will put at risk all we care about in this world.

In this hour of danger, our president has had the courage to stand up. And this Democrat is proud to stand up with him.

Thank you.

God bless this great country. And God bless George W. Bush.



_________________

Vashner
10-02-2005, 01:55 AM
I would also point out. The commanding officer of the Somila raid that led to the "blackhawk down" mission requested and was denied AC130 gunship and armor.

In Iraq you just ask and a building is smoked.. they keep fighters up and hot 24x7..
they make a phone call.. double check the targets then smoke it.. there is no turn down of backup like Clinton did.

GoldToe
10-02-2005, 02:46 AM
Bush broke it now he owns it and doesn't want to let go. The next administration will need to clean up his mess.

Nbadan
10-02-2005, 03:54 AM
I would also point out. The commanding officer of the Somila raid that led to the "blackhawk down" mission requested and was denied AC130 gunship and armor.

In Iraq you just ask and a building is smoked.. they keep fighters up and hot 24x7..
they make a phone call.. double check the targets then smoke it.. there is no turn down of backup like Clinton did.

It' my understanding that they didn't have the AC130 Gunships yet, or they would have used them in Somalia.

Nbadan
10-02-2005, 04:10 AM
War-hawks like to have us pretend that Iraq is just like Germany and Japan after WW2, but after a couple of years, the political, social, economic situations in both those countries got marginally better, whereas, two+ years after the toppling of Saddam, the security situation in Iraq just continues to marginally worse.

Any General will tell you that there are only two realistic choices we can make in Iraq, either start drawing a time-table for withdrawal now, or find a way to round up enough troops (either American of Foreign) to increase the security situation in Iraq, fight the insurgency, and secure the borders. I estimate about 400,000 would probably do, and we've already tried going the U.N. and NATO route with little success.

boutons
10-02-2005, 06:12 AM
dubya "reads" history?

dubya "reads"?

dubya?

FromWayDowntown
10-02-2005, 09:22 AM
dubya "reads" history?

Books on tape rock!

ChumpDumper
10-02-2005, 10:20 AM
So we could have "won" Somalia if we sent in one plane?

MannyIsGod
10-02-2005, 11:21 AM
I would also point out. The commanding officer of the Somila raid that led to the "blackhawk down" mission requested and was denied AC130 gunship and armor.

In Iraq you just ask and a building is smoked.. they keep fighters up and hot 24x7..
they make a phone call.. double check the targets then smoke it.. there is no turn down of backup like Clinton did.
The point of the article was not that we fought incorrectly in Africa, but that we shoudln't have been fighting at all. Being there at any point in a situation that didn't directly pertain to United States interests put us in a situatino where we weren't willing to lose lives, and pulled out.

You shouldn't get on the pot if you're not willing to stay and shit.

MannyIsGod
10-02-2005, 11:21 AM
dubya "reads" history?

dubya "reads"?

dubya?
:lol

Cant_Be_Faded
10-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Vashner you can't expect past instances of american's 'liberating' to justify this iraqi conflict. Each instance must be treated as its own and evaluated as such. American people are being lied to about whats going on there. "last throes" comes to mind. The situation has not got better, and we're involving ourselves in that war when we got plenty of shit wrong over here....catastrophes, teacher-less schools, open borders, and border WARS.