who are your top 15 national players of all time..World cup and Continental cup top..

[apalisoc_9]

Players?...

Should international competition be considered when ranking players?

Imo, in no order

Pele
Maradona
Kempes
Ronaldo El fenomeno
Garinccha
Franz B.
Zidane
Cruyff
Cafu
Klose
Redondo
Di steffano
Eusebio
platini
Baggio

[lefty]

Stan Collymore

[DAF86]

Most of those guys haven't won the WC Golden Ball. See sig, tbh.

[lefty]

Ah the much coveted pity award

[DAF86]

Haters gonna hate, tbh.

[apalisoc_9]

Everyone and their mother knew messi didnt deserve that shit.

Their Defense carried them the whole tournament. Terribel.

[DAF86]

Messi turned a group stage elimination (against the likes of Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria :lol) into a WC final, tbh.

Everyone underrates Messi's WC performance just 'cause he is Messi, and everyone expects him to score a hat-trick every game to say he didn't underperform, but the truth is that he was the most important player of all the players that made it to the final. Without him Argentina wouldn't have made it that far. Of what other player can you say that? Neur? Nah, goal keepers aren't that important. Mueller, Klose?

Truth is, Germany was a team in every sense of the wose. Argentina was a one man team. Nobody was more valuable to its team than Messi. That's why he won it, tbh.

[DAF86]

Messi turned a group stage elimination (against the likes of Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria :lol) into a WC final, tbh.

Everyone underrates Messi's WC performance just 'cause he is Messi, and everyone expects him to score a hat-trick every game to say he didn't underperform, but the truth is that he was the most important player of all the players that made it to the final. Without him Argentina wouldn't have made it that far. Of what other player can you say that? Neur? Nah, goal keepers aren't that important. Mueller, Klose?

Truth is, Germany was a team in every sense of the word. Argentina was a one man team. Nobody was more valuable to its team than Messi. That's why he won it, tbh.

[lefty]

TheGreatYacht

It's time

[apalisoc_9]

Did this nigga just say 2014 was all messi?

Gtfo with your revisionist history! The shitty defense you always complained about is what carried the team the whole tournament.

[ElNono]

IMVHO...

1st tier:
Maradona
Pele

2nd tier:
Cruyff
Di Stefano
Messi
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo (Brazil)

3rd tier:
Garrincha
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo (Portugal)
Zidane
Van Basten
Baggio
Platini
Francescoli
(and you can add a few more here)

Players within a tier can be ranked whichever way you prefer, IMO... I have zero problems with people that say Pele was better than Diego, I really didn't watch much of Pele, and it's an argument that's going to be there forever, but I think there's little doubt those two are within their own tier. Obviously, there's some players that are still active and could continue to move up...

[turkish spurs fan]

i dont remember the performance of messi in international cups to deserve to enter that list

[ElNono]

The Champions League is a continental cup...

[TheGreatYacht]

Wayne Rooney

[urunobili]

IMVHO...

1st tier:
Maradona
Pele

2nd tier:
Cruyff
Di Stefano
Messi
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo (Brazil)

3rd tier:
Garrincha
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo (Portugal)
Zidane
Van Basten
Baggio
Platini
Francescoli
(and you can add a few more here)

Players within a tier can be ranked whichever way you prefer, IMO... I have zero problems with people that say Pele was better than Diego, I really didn't watch much of Pele, and it's an argument that's going to be there forever, but I think there's little doubt those two are within their own tier. Obviously, there's some players that are still active and could continue to move up...

If you're going to put a token Uruguayan on the 3rd tier you should put there Alcides Gighia or Obdulio Varela not Enzo. They won the 50's world cup and almost rang in 54' if not losing that fluke 4-3 semis game to Hungary. Uruguay was 4th that WC after losing their motivation in that game...

As is, Suarez >>>>>>> Enzo in Uruguay WC history...

[turkish spurs fan]

1) ghiggia

[Brazil]

IMVHO...

1st tier:
Maradona
Pele

2nd tier:
Cruyff
Di Stefano
Messi
Beckenbauer
Ronaldo (Brazil)

3rd tier:
Garrincha
Ronaldinho
Ronaldo (Portugal)
Zidane
Van Basten
Baggio
Platini
Francescoli
(and you can add a few more here)

Players within a tier can be ranked whichever way you prefer, IMO... I have zero problems with people that say Pele was better than Diego, I really didn't watch much of Pele, and it's an argument that's going to be there forever, but I think there's little doubt those two are within their own tier. Obviously, there's some players that are still active and could continue to move up...

:lol...

[Brazil]

Glad seeing Garrincha getting some love :tu ... dude was a bit forgotten and totally under the radar

[Canyonero]

OP one more thread and I'm deporting you.

[turkish spurs fan]

hagi was better than maradona tbh

[ElNono]

If you're going to put a token Uruguayan on the 3rd tier you should put there Alcides Gighia or Obdulio Varela not Enzo. They won the 50's world cup and almost rang in 54' if not losing that fluke 4-3 semis game to Hungary. Uruguay was 4th that WC after losing their motivation in that game...

As is, Suarez >>>>>>> Enzo in Uruguay WC history...

Being a River fan, I have a bias when it comes to Enzo, tbh... can't deny that...

[DAF86]

Did this nigga just say 2014 was all messi?

Gtfo with your revisionist history! The shitty defense you always complained about is what carried the team the whole tournament.

You also said that. Don't feel like searching the thread, but you know you said it. You will probably say it was all trolling but you said it, tbh. :lol

[DAF86]

Oh, what the hell. Just for fun


I'll come clean and admit that it's been a joy watching Messi dominate oppositions. He hasn't scored a goal in the knock out stages, but he set up Di Maria and had a hand in Higuain's goal against Belgium. Ultimately, his biggest contribution comes from the fact that he has to be marked and that really limits opponents offensively..His ability to keep CMF's and DMF's play defense 90% is also part of the reason why oppositions are having trouble building up offense. He breaks the connection between offense and defense..Messi is the main gun in offense and part of the reason why they're successful in defending as well.

You might notice him walking in the field in defense and waiting in front, but a close look and you will know that it effectively keeps CMF's and DMF's at bay..which limits other teams to crosses and poor attempts in the middle. I only wish Ronaldo was used in the same sense.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237335&p=7504313#post7504313

[Phenomanul]

IMVHO...

1st tier:
Pelé (Brazil)
D. Maradona (Argentina)
L. Messi (Argentina)

2nd tier:
J. Cruyff (The Netherlands)
A. Di Stefano (Argentina)
F. Beckenbauer (Germany)
Ronaldo (Brazil)
Garrincha (Brazil)

3rd tier:
Romário (Brazil)
J. Klinsmann (Germany)
T. Cubillas (Peru)
Ronaldinho (Brazil)
Ronaldo (Portugal)
Z. Zidane (France)
H. Sánchez (México)
M. van Basten (The Netherlands)
R. Baggio (Italy)
M. Platini (France)
E. Francescoli (Uruguay)
R. Gullit (The Netherlands)
G. Batistuta (Argentina)
B. Laudrup (Denmark)
L. Matthäus (Germany)
F. Puskás (Hungary)
D. Bergkamp (The Netherlands)
A. Iniesta (Spain)
G. Buffon (Italy)
Eusébio (Portugal)
G. Hagi (Romania)
H. Stoichkov (Bulgaria)
Zico (Brazil)
P. Maldini (Italy)
Raúl (Spain)
G. Müller (Germany)
B. Charlton (England)
S. Matthews (England)

(and you can add a few more here)

Players within a tier can be ranked whichever way you prefer, IMO... I have zero problems with people that say Pele was better than Diego, I really didn't watch much of Pele, and it's an argument that's going to be there forever, but I think there's little doubt those two are within their own tier. Obviously, there's some players that are still active and could continue to move up...


I know that you didn't want to come off as a homer (given that you are Argentinean) but Messi ABSOLUTELY belongs in that first tier. His play on the field and the things he is able to do are mesmerizing --> that it doesn't always translate to success on the NT is another matter entirely. At his best, Messi's abilities are unrivaled.

Anyways... here is my revised list - keeping the spirit of your concept. I bumped Garrincha up a tier given I saw some of the things he was able to do on the pitch on some Televisa documentaries (it's a shame alcoholism and bad management ultimately derailed his career)...

[Brazil]

:lol dat Messi fan boys tbh

[DAF86]

What happend with the quote Jodelo? :lol

[Phenomanul]

What happend with the quote Jodelo? :lol

You should have included a quote directly from that thread.

[DAF86]

:lol dat Messi fan boys tbh

Dude, you, and every Messi hater here, comes up as ignorant when dowplaying Messi, tbh. Like it or not. He's GOAT level. You can either be a bitch about it and cry everytime the topic comes up, or you can just accept reality, tbh.

[DAF86]

You should have included a quote directly from that thread.

Didn't actually see what he said. The notification of quotes stand even though you erase the comment. What did he say, tbh? :lol

[lefty]

Dude, you, and every Messi hater here, comes up as ignorant when dowplaying Messi, tbh. Like it or not. He's GOAT level. You can either be a bitch about it and cry everytime the topic comes up, or you can just accept reality, tbh.

"Ignorant"

That's what Michael Jackson

[Phenomanul]

Didn't actually see what he said. The notification of quotes stand even though you erase the comment. What did he say, tbh? :lol

I thought I read his comment. But it was only the OP that I read by apalisoc9.

[apalisoc_9]

Does a guy with very talented Midfield and forward..but still underwhelmes everytime in the wc deserve top 10 status?

Thats like saying Tmac desevres top 10 status player

[ElNono]

I know that you didn't want to come off as a homer (given that you are Argentinean) but Messi ABSOLUTELY belongs in that first tier. His play on the field and the things he is able to do are mesmerizing --> that it doesn't always translate to success on the NT is another matter entirely. At his best, Messi's abilities are unrivaled.

Anyways... here is my revised list - keeping the spirit of your concept. I bumped Garrincha up a tier given I saw some of the things he was able to do on the pitch on some Televisa documentaries (it's a shame alcoholism and bad management ultimately derailed his career)...

Here's a guy that knows his futbol, tbh...

You pretty much nailed that 3rd tier... I would add Franco Baresi and Ivan Zamorano... there really are a lot of very good players that should fit there... and uru is right, if Suarez keeps going like he's going, he's probably going to land there alongside the Kempes or Batistuta...

[Brazil]

Dude, you, and every Messi hater here, comes up as ignorant when dowplaying Messi, tbh. Like it or not. He's GOAT level. You can either be a bitch about it and cry everytime the topic comes up, or you can just accept reality, tbh.

Dude, you, and every Messi homer here, comes up as ignorant when overplaying Messi, tbh. Like it or not. He's not GOAT level. You can either be a bitch about it and cry everytime the topic comes up, or you can just accept reality, tbh.

[urunobili]

I know that you didn't want to come off as a homer (given that you are Argentinean) but Messi ABSOLUTELY belongs in that first tier. His play on the field and the things he is able to do are mesmerizing --> that it doesn't always translate to success on the NT is another matter entirely. At his best, Messi's abilities are unrivaled.

Anyways... here is my revised list - keeping the spirit of your concept. I bumped Garrincha up a tier given I saw some of the things he was able to do on the pitch on some Televisa documentaries (it's a shame alcoholism and bad management ultimately derailed his career)...
Well I think y'all should consider true history and accomplishments for this list... THIS is the Uruguayan god that debatable is 1st tier or 2nd...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_Scarone

He won the South American Championship four times: in 1917, 1923, 1924, and 1926, and the Olympic gold medal twice: in 1924 and 1928 (these two gold medals are the controversial other two stars on Uruguay's shield as they were consider world cups as they were organized by FIFA with all top players not amateurs).

At the age of 19, he scored the goal that gave Uruguay the title at the 1917 South American Championship, in the final against Argentina, his fourth international match.

Scarone finished his international career by leading Uruguay to the 1930 FIFA World Cup, and although his international career ended that same year, the 31 goals in 52 matches (actually 52, but 21 goals were in unofficial matches) he scored for his country stood until as of 2011 as the national record. (Forlan and then subsequently Suarez took over his record, Cagani is on his way tot hat too)

[Brazil]

BTW I'm not saying he is not top 10, of course he is but putting same tier than Pele and Maradona is :lmao

Messi is ringless and his memorable games are against Nigeria :lol that's not some top tier material. live with it tbh

[urunobili]

BTW I'm not saying he is not top 10, of course he is but putting same tier than Pele and Maradona is :lmao

Led his team to more rings than Maradroga... I don't know why he can't be there...

[lefty]

BTW I'm not saying he is not top 10, of course he is but putting same tier than Pele and Maradona is :lmao

Messi is ringless and his memorable games are against Nigeria :lol that's not some top tier material. live with it tbh

Daaaamn

That's some prise de la bastille shit

[Brazil]

Led his team to more rings than Maradroga... I don't know why he can't be there...

except for some Argies that prefer their club to NT... you take Maradona rings over Messi's in a heartbeat... nothing in football is more important than a WC...

I'm aware that WC is team accomplishment but it is not like Messi dominated a WC like 74 Cruyf and lost in final after having a great run. Last WC Messi on the latest stages disappointed, that's a fact. I know it is somehow dumb to do that but take 86 Maradona with 2014 Argie squad, Argentina does not lose this final.

With no dominance in a WC, Messi will end up like Di Stefano... impressive CL and Liga palmares and stats that will put him among the greatest but a tier below Pele and Maradona like a lot of other players

[urunobili]

except for some Argies that prefer their club to NT... you take Maradona rings over Messi's in a heartbeat... nothing in football is more important than a WC...

I'm aware that WC is team accomplishment but it is not like Messi dominated a WC like 74 Cruyf and lost in final after having a great run. Last WC Messi on the latest stages disappointed, that's a fact. I know it is somehow dumb to do that but take 86 Maradona with 2014 Argie squad, Argentina does not lose this final.

With no dominance in a WC, Messi will end up like Di Stefano... impressive CL and Liga palmares and stats that will put him among the greatest but a tier below Pele and Maradona like a lot of other players

My bad I thought you were saying Scarone didn't belong in top tier...

Missi has to ring WHILE being a dominant player for his team to be tier 1 in WC, I agree.

[Brazil]

My bad I thought you were saying Scarone didn't belong in top tier...

Missi has to ring WHILE being a dominant player for his team to be tier 1 in WC, I agree.


:tu

[dfens]

sons, messi is a GOAT level player, but anybody who thinks messi was in the same league as zidane in terms of national team production is a dumbass and a cuck tbh.

1. zidane has the silverware by a MILE (1 wc, 1 euro, 3 times best player of the tournament : 2 wc and a euro)
2. zidane has the memorable games by a MILE (vs brazil 1998, vs portugal and spain in 2000, the ENTIRE 2006 run, that game vs brazil 2006)
3. zidane's impact was greater: without him we get 2002. we get france pre WC 2006. Argentina more-or-less had the same amount of success with or without messi.
4. choking : messi couldn't even a get out of the quarter finals of the copa america at home in 2011. Messi and argentina also choked as favorites in copa america 2007 (lost 3-0). They also got rolled in 2010 by germany 4-0 in the quarters.

I could make the same argument in favor of other all time greats like pele/maradona/ronaldo. Even that cuck cruyff.

Y'all niggas need get your heads out of your asses, zidane/ronaldo/pele/maradona have brought MUCH more to their national teams. I love messi but he is lebron to maradona's jordan, GOAT talent, GOAT regular season but he isn't as dominant and cold blooded in post season (copa americas, WCs) and he has a tendency to choke (2011, 2007). No shame in it, just not good enough. For his national team messi is like a tier 2/3 GOAT.

[Canyonero]

Arbeloa > Zidane, Ronaldo, Messi tbqh


Well I think y'all should consider true history and accomplishments for this list... THIS is the Uruguayan god that debatable is 1st tier or 2nd...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_Scarone

He won the South American Championship four times: in 1917, 1923, 1924, and 1926, and the Olympic gold medal twice: in 1924 and 1928 (these two gold medals are the controversial other two stars on Uruguay's shield as they were consider world cups as they were organized by FIFA with all top players not amateurs).

At the age of 19, he scored the goal that gave Uruguay the title at the 1917 South American Championship, in the final against Argentina, his fourth international match.

Scarone finished his international career by leading Uruguay to the 1930 FIFA World Cup, and although his international career ended that same year, the 31 goals in 52 matches (actually 52, but 21 goals were in unofficial matches) he scored for his country stood until as of 2011 as the national record. (Forlan and then subsequently Suarez took over his record, Cagani is on his way tot hat too)

Hectorsaurus Scaroniis

[ElNono]

Well I think y'all should consider true history and accomplishments for this list... THIS is the Uruguayan god that debatable is 1st tier or 2nd...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_Scarone

He won the South American Championship four times: in 1917, 1923, 1924, and 1926, and the Olympic gold medal twice: in 1924 and 1928 (these two gold medals are the controversial other two stars on Uruguay's shield as they were consider world cups as they were organized by FIFA with all top players not amateurs).

At the age of 19, he scored the goal that gave Uruguay the title at the 1917 South American Championship, in the final against Argentina, his fourth international match.

Scarone finished his international career by leading Uruguay to the 1930 FIFA World Cup, and although his international career ended that same year, the 31 goals in 52 matches (actually 52, but 21 goals were in unofficial matches) he scored for his country stood until as of 2011 as the national record. (Forlan and then subsequently Suarez took over his record, Cagani is on his way tot hat too)

He played for Real Madrid, so lefty approves, tbqh

[Brazil]

Maradona 86 would have never lost the opportunity to win a WC in Brazil in a final after Brazil, hosting the competition, being destroyed and humiliated in Semi :lol

Both are not in the same league from this point of view, Messi has the killer instinct of R Poulidor and Maradona has the B Hinault's or Merckx's one

[Canyonero]

Maradona 86 would have never lost the opportunity to win a WC in Brazil in a final after Brazil, hosting the competition, being destroyed and humiliated in Semi :lol

Both are not in the same league from this point of view, Messi has the killer instinct of R Poulidor and Maradona has the B Hinault's or Merckx's one

Who the f are those?

[Brazil]

Who the f are those?

http://bikeraceinfo.com/images-all/photo-galleries-images/racers-images/poulidor-raymond/1962-14-tapa-Poulidor-Por-A.jpg



http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/pics/hinault%2085tdf8%20cut.jpg

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/06/Eddy-Merckx-by-Sunada.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

zidane 3rd tier? wtf .... gtfo monkeys

[Jodelo]

zidane 3rd tier? wtf .... gtfo monkeys

Having Messi above him. :lol

[DAF86]

Dude, you, and every Messi homer here, comes up as ignorant when overplaying Messi, tbh. Like it or not. He's not GOAT level. You can either be a bitch about it and cry everytime the topic comes up, or you can just accept reality, tbh.

Ignorant it is then. GOAT per era: Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. Every knowledgeable football fan knows this. Then you start arguing about the others, tbh.

[Brazil]

Ignorant it is then. GOAT per era: Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. Every knowledgeable football fan knows this. Then you start arguing about the others.

This does not put Messi in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, same goes for Di Stefano and Cruyf... ignorant is bliss son. Messi is second tier among others

[lefty]

This does not put Messi in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, same goes for Di Stefano and Cruyf... ignorant is bliss son. Messi is second tier among others
http://fotos02.farodevigo.es/fotos/noticias/318x200/2010-04-22_IMG_2010-04-22_22:37:07_pele212.jpg

https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/26/1372240558274/Lionel-Messi-008.jpg

[lefty]

:lol

https://www.onefootball.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REU_2040700.jpg

[Brazil]

^ :lol tbh...

[apalisoc_9]

:lol

https://www.onefootball.com/magazine/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/REU_2040700.jpg

He doesbt even have a copa america win :lmao

[urunobili]

He doesbt even have a copa america win :lmao

Maradroga also lost his with the same WC 86 team at home... No shaming Missi for that

[TDMVPDPOY]

If you're going to put a token Uruguayan on the 3rd tier you should put there Alcides Gighia or Obdulio Varela not Enzo. They won the 50's world cup and almost rang in 54' if not losing that fluke 4-3 semis game to Hungary. Uruguay was 4th that WC after losing their motivation in that game...

As is, Suarez >>>>>>> Enzo in Uruguay WC history...

wtf is that pos RAUL doing on that lists? didnt even win shit in national team tournaments, and if he did was probably pass his prime or coat riding...

you might as well have xavi, iniesta and villa on that list 3rd tier

[dfens]

wtf is that pos RAUL doing on that lists? didnt even win shit in national team tournaments, and if he did was probably pass his prime or coat riding...

you might as well have xavi, iniesta and villa on that list 3rd tier

xavi >>> any other spaniard son. He was the KEY player on the first euro and the WC. xavi is underrated as hell tbh.

[DAF86]

Xavi is the greatest Spanish (or at least guy that has played fro the Spanish NT, I don't know if he considers himself Spanish) player of all-time. And one of the 10 greatest players I have ever seen. Probably the most underrated player of all-time, tbh.

[apalisoc_9]

Xavi is the best spanish player ever and one of the top 3 Barcelona players ever..his longevity with Barca and loyalty should make him the best Barcelona player ever.

[dfens]

Xavi is the greatest Spanish (or at least guy that has played fro the Spanish NT, I don't know if he considers himself Spanish) player of all-time. And one of the 10 greatest players I have ever seen. Probably the most underrated player of all-time, tbh.
damn right, nigga tore us a new one a couple of time in the euro final and wc semis, those 1-0 felt like 5-0 live, we had no fucking hope against tikitakanaccio :depressed. But he got old and we champs now :lol


Xavi is the best spanish player ever and one of the top 3 Barcelona players ever..his longevity with Barca and loyalty should make him the best Barcelona player ever.
messi is a bigger name and contributor for barca.

[DAF86]

messi is a bigger name and contributor for barca.

Strange way of saying "better player", tbh. :lol

[Blizzardwizard]

Will Grigg.

Emile Heskey.

[dfens]

Strange way of saying "better player", tbh. :lol

messi is a better player, no doubt.