Coaches Notice Amare's Expanded Game [Archive]

View Full Version : Coaches Notice Amare's Expanded Game

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 09:43 AM

Coaches, mates notice Amaré's expanded game

Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 2, 2005 12:00 AM

The Suns officially get back to work Monday, when they go through a circuit of media duties and catch a bus to Tucson for a weeklong training camp.

But Amaré Stoudemire really never stopped working since the playoffs. By his count, he took two weeks off this summer outside of his basketball training and his expanding off-court demands.

You will see it when he drives to his left, pushes the fast break with the dribble, pulls up for jumpers and - gulp - shoots the corner three-pointer. After pickup games, Stoudemire's shooting drills now regularly include long streaks of made threes.
advertisement

"I'm ready to go," Stoudemire said. "I'm really trying to win a championship this year. That's what I'm striving for. There are a lot of new guys and there have been some huge changes, but I think it's all for the best to help this team become a champion. That's what it is all about."

Stoudemire committed himself, whether it was occasional trips to America West Arena for workouts with Suns athletic trainers, or asking Phoenix assistant coach Phil Weber to come to Orlando for five days so he could continue the basketball development they did at the arena.

"His mind-set is about as good as it gets," Weber said. "Because of how good he is, some other factors came up this summer that other people don't have to worry about. He did whatever I asked for as long as I asked. He just wants to be the best player he can be."

The pair worked primarily on offense, leaving the defensive adjustments to come from assistant Marc Iavaroni via video lessons. Stoudemire and Weber worked on perimeter moves usually reserved for backcourt players.

Suns power forward Brian Grant, signed this summer, carries the best perspective for Stoudemire's development as a former foe. He knew every scouting report on Stoudemire said to force him left. When he did that during one of last month's voluntary workout games, Stoudemire blew by him.

"Oops," Grant told the coaches. "Guess you can't do that anymore."

Stoudemire said he liked the team's summer moves, although he did make a push for the Suns to try to keep Joe Johnson. Any distaste seems to come from only Johnson's side. Stoudemire said they were "real good friends" and hung out away from basketball.

"I can't hate him for the move he made because it was a smart move on his behalf," Stoudemire said.

The additions of Grant and Kurt Thomas, two veteran post players, were especially pleasing to Stoudemire, who now won't have to guard opponents' top post players and may get more space to operate. He played frequently last month with the team's other additions, including the standout of them all, guard Raja Bell.

"I'm impressed," Stoudemire said. "I think we're going to be even better, especially defensively, and we've still got the offensive game."

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 11:15 AM

LOL. Baby Huey don't scare me with no JJ and Q.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 11:20 AM

I disagree. Amare can carry the load of scoring if he had to. Now that this team is good defensively they have as good of chance than ever. They are better than last year imo.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 12:36 PM

I disagree. Amare can carry the load of scoring if he had to. Now that this team is good defensively they have as good of chance than ever. They are better than last year imo.

You're silly. Last year's team was amazing. Now they're just another two man show. It's easier to guard amare without JJ and Q sitting behind the three point line...

The Spurs have faced the greatest two man show in NBA history.
This will be no problem.

This years team wont have the scoring punch, wont have the fast break ability. It just got older and has better defense and rebounding.

The Mavericks will be able to own the suns next year....even if teams use the strategy of giving amare whatever he wants with 1 on 1 coverage....a good defensive team will be able to shut down every single other player.

Do you expect amare to score 110 points a game himself?

mookie2001

10-02-2005, 01:15 PM

19 and 20 ppg
if im not mistaken

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 02:45 PM

With Nash as PG I don't see why Phoenix can't continue scoring like last year. Nash made Q and Joe Johnson with his ability to find open shooters. Of course they had to make it but why won't Bell and Jim Jackson be able to do the same or close to it? Kurt Thomas just adds to their rebounding. You are underrating Phoenix.

mookie2001

10-02-2005, 02:54 PM

i think youre overrating them
the 2005 jim jackson and raja bell arent both capable of averaging 20
their whole game was scoring and shooting and it didnt work against the spurs
now with 40 ppg gone, kurt thomas isnt going to matter

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 02:58 PM

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 03:06 PM

With the suns system they can be pretty close. More attention will be drawn to Amare than even last year giving open shots to Kurt Thomas, R. Bell, and J. Jackson. Marion can also hit shots. Plenty of scorers.

What you have in Phoenix this year is the ability to form a very good defensive and average scoring team with a solid go to player.

However

Nash is not going to gain the ability to defend his man any better, so phoenix will still be incapable of maintaining point guards.

Amare will have to make HUGE strides on defense. That will remain to be seen.

Marion can play good d. He's always had it. So no worries there.

Raja Bell can play good d. But comparing his open jumper to that of Quentin Richardson or Joe Johnson is totally absurd...

Kurt Thomas is undersized and will be playing for the first time ever in the Western Conference (or as i like to call it, where the big boys play)

Jim Jackson is pretty lethal offensively, but old, and has never been a decent defender..

Where are you seeing plenty of scorers?

I think you're going to see phoenix try to run some sets for amare, and when those dont work, move more to a motion offense with nash setting people up. But you can't seriously expect Jim Jackson to contribute much more than he has in his past 4 or 5 years, OR Raja Bell to somehow gain the shooting touch even comparable to Q (a volume 3 point shooter) or JJ (a solid shooter AND slashe/finisher)

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 03:08 PM

2003 were the lakers/mavericks
2004 were the timberwolves/lakers
2005 were the suns/pistons

each of these teams were the closest to winning the championship, but failed.

Next year will be all about Houston, imo. They are a team that has the tools to defend, score, rebound, and run the break. They will be lethal. They have size too.

Phoenix can't boast all that shit. They totally totally blew it by trying to become defensive, and losing JJ. Blew it.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:12 PM

TOP-CHERRY

10-02-2005, 03:14 PM

Mavs homer.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:16 PM

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 03:18 PM

You gotta be kidding me. Houston? Sura just went through another knee surgery and Stromile Swift hasn't proven anything except being a high jumper.
It is 1. San Antonio
2. Phoenix
3. Dallas
4. Houston imo.

Houston and Dallas were very evenly matched last year. San Antonio dominated Phoenix. During the regular season, Houston gave San Antonio the most trouble, cuz of good matchups.

I think if Houston had played Phoenix, Houston would have dominated GIVEN that they were able to keep the pace of the game to their tempo. (remember all the people were saying only if YAO could keep running or Houston could control tempo?)

With JJ and Q gone, Phoenix is alot (ALOT!) less faster, and with additions like Thomas and Bell, they're actually wanting to play more like Houston did this past year.

Houston has SIZE man. They got no point guard, but they didn't have one last year either, and the ball is mostly in McGrady's hands anyways.

On the other hand, Phoenix has a point guard that is bad ass on one end, and a total liability on the other.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 03:18 PM

Bell is just as good as at least Q. Richardson and close to Joe Johnson. If you didn't notice all the guards on Phoenix have to do is hit open shots because Nash and Amare do all the work with some help from Marion. I see Phoenix averaging around 105 ppg and giving up about 99 ppg which is an improvement from last year.

Alright, I guess we will just wait and see.

But what basis do you have for judging Raja Bell being as good as Quentin and Joe?

I see none.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:25 PM

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:32 PM

Here are R. Bell's stats last year.
12.3 PPG, 40.3% 3PT, 45.4% FG. Pretty good and add Nash's passing to that should help him shoot even better.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-02-2005, 03:33 PM

2 of Houston's wins came off of San Antonio playing on back to back nights. One of them was because Mcgrady caught on fire. Nash might be a liability on defense but one player can't make a team poor defensively. Nash and Amare have good defenders surrounding them now.
Bell>J. Johnson on defense
Marion>Q. Richardson on defense. Nash won't have to guard any of the teams best players because Bell can do that at PG or SG. That is a way to hide a liability. The Pick and Roll is unstoppable between Nash and Amare so that is where teams will have trouble guarding Phoenix.

There's a big flaw in that kind of reasoning though. When you slide Bell over to defend a PG, does Nash just not defend anyone? Well he will be defending a shooting guard, more than 3 inches taller than him.

That is in no way a liability? Are you kidding?

I agree with your player defensive comparisons though.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:38 PM

I agree it can be a problem if a team has a great point guard and a good shooting guard. If a player is 3 inches taller but has no offensive game or very little he can't take advantage of Nash guarding. There are only a couple teams I can think of that can expose Nash's defense. If San Antonio puts in Finley instead of Bowen is a perfect idea. Parker, Billups, and Kidd are the most that come to mind with this but there aren't too many great point guards in the league.

TOP-CHERRY

10-02-2005, 03:44 PM

Someone's forgetting Nash isn't getting any younger... And he's very prone to injury.

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 03:52 PM

Someone's forgetting Nash isn't getting any younger... And he's very prone to injury.
The same could be said about Ginobili. Ginobili actually takes more hits and Nash does a good job avoiding contact.

reader

10-02-2005, 05:00 PM

A bit late to the discussion but here are some numbers for House, Jones and Diaw.

House .. FG 45% 3Pt 45% FT 85% Pts 6 Minutes 13
Jones .. FG 39% 3Pt 39% FT 85% Pts 5 Minutes 18
Diaw .. FG 42% 3Pt 18% FT 74% Pts 5 Minutes 18

Admittedly they do not have the points going for them, however, their percentages are fairly good and should help the Suns absorb the losses of JJ and Q.

mookie2001

10-02-2005, 05:25 PM

ginobili is younger than nash, come on
and he is prone to contact, not injury, i wouldnt say nash is prone to injury either

Sense

10-02-2005, 10:26 PM

Mavs homer.

:tu

mavsfan1000

10-02-2005, 10:34 PM

So what. It is impossible to be 100% unbias. I just don't think Houston has what it takes to beat Dallas.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-03-2005, 12:17 AM

Yet they were one bull shit call away from beating them last year

mavsfan1000

10-03-2005, 12:36 AM

Yet they were one bull shit call away from beating them last year
It's funny how the rocket crowd makes such a big deal on one fricken call. Dallas got screwed by calls for the most of the series including game 6 which I think was the worst ref game I have ever seen. You can't touch Mcgrady because it is foul while Dirk gets hacked and no call.

Sense

10-03-2005, 12:39 AM

It's funny how the rocket crowd makes such a big deal on one fricken call. Dallas got screwed by calls for the most of the series including game 6 which I think was the worst ref game I have ever seen. You can't touch Mcgrady because it is foul while Dirk gets hacked and no call.

Who cares, they would've gotten owned by PHX or the Spurs anyways.

Spurs won the championship... enough of your other team's talk.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-03-2005, 12:41 AM

It's funny how the rocket crowd makes such a big deal on one fricken call. Dallas got screwed by calls for the most of the series including game 6 which I think was the worst ref game I have ever seen. You can't touch Mcgrady because it is foul while Dirk gets hacked and no call.

Well what you say is arguable, but its not conclusive....we can see the same replay of someone 'fouling' dirk and go either way

what is conclusive is that replay of the outofbounds finley thing...we all saw his feet touching the ground with the ball in his hands

that is not arguable

that was a bad call

mavsfan1000

10-03-2005, 12:42 AM

Maybe you can convince Kori to change this forum to spurs news instead of nba news than. :rolleyes

mavsfan1000

10-03-2005, 12:44 AM

Well what you say is arguable, but its not conclusive....we can see the same replay of someone 'fouling' dirk and go either way

what is conclusive is that replay of the outofbounds finley thing...we all saw his feet touching the ground with the ball in his hands

that is not arguable

that was a bad call

You know how many bad calls that happen in a game. It is ridiculous to argue about 1 bad call. There were bad calls before that one that got Houston back in the game but they choose to focus on that one call. Figures that rocket fans would poor sport about that.

baseline bum

10-03-2005, 02:05 AM

TOP-CHERRY

10-03-2005, 09:07 AM

So what. It is impossible to be 100% unbias. I just don't think Houston has what it takes to beat Dallas.
Well... The Rockets upgraded.
I don't think the Mavs did much.

Matrix

10-03-2005, 05:07 PM

The Suns system made the 3 point shot available. Q wasn't known for his 3 point shooting and JJ didn't have that many 3's the year before Nash. Coach D's plan is simple, he wants the SUNS to score in 6 seconds or less, so if its just Marion, Nash, Bell and Amare running down the floor after a Thomas rebound, how is that worse.

SirChaz

10-03-2005, 05:46 PM

Bell more than makes up for the loss of Q.
Add to that the addition of Thomas allows Marion to move back to the 3 from the 4 and it is an improvement. The Suns got wide open three because of the attention that Nash and Amare attracted. There are many people in the league that can score those baskets with looks that open.

Losing JJ hurts because of his ability to create but we managed to beat Dallas without him. I am not worried about a lack of shooting on this years team.

You also have to look at the roster 1-12. This years roster is much deeper.

Phoenix is a better team on paper. This biggest improvement is replacing guys that never played with guys that can.

SirChaz

10-03-2005, 05:50 PM

Seems to me the people that say Phoenix will be worse are the same people saying last year that Phoenix would fade by the end of the year with no bench or they couldn't get deep into the playoffs.

Most people don't even understand the success they had last year. I am not concerned with those people saying the Suns will take a step back. In fact it mostly makes me feel better.

mookie2001

10-03-2005, 06:31 PM

Phoenix is a better team on paper.

do you work for ESPN?

duncan_21

10-03-2005, 08:33 PM

You're silly. Last year's team was amazing. Now they're just another two man show. It's easier to guard amare without JJ and Q sitting behind the three point line...

The Spurs have faced the greatest two man show in NBA history.
This will be no problem.

This years team wont have the scoring punch, wont have the fast break ability. It just got older and has better defense and rebounding.

The Mavericks will be able to own the suns next year....even if teams use the strategy of giving amare whatever he wants with 1 on 1 coverage....a good defensive team will be able to shut down every single other player.

Do you expect amare to score 110 points a game himself?

I gotta agree with you. It's much easier to double amare and nash. If you're the spurs you double amare and nash and let bowen take marion out of the game. If they could have let marion go and kept jj this team would look really sick.

JMarkJohns

10-03-2005, 08:55 PM

Exerpts of mine from previous posts on the topic...

Sept. 9, 2005 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=474548&postcount=19)

Bell, Nash, Jackson and Jones are all at or above 40% from range. Barbosa and Marion are around 37/38%. That's six quality shooters. Everyone talks about Richardson and Johnson like their 3-point ability made the Suns, when, in effect, it's the exact opposite.

Johnson shot 30% from range in 03-04. Richardson shot around 33%. The open looks caused by Nash and Amare were what led to the open shots and the increased shooting percentage. For all his effort, Q was no better than a volume shooter. He was a 35% 3-point shooter. Jackson, who shot 45% with the Suns last season, attempted four three-pointers in just under 25 minutes per game with Phoenix. Give him 30 and an increased shooter's role and he'll match Q's volume and should do much better precentage wise.

Johnson hurts. Already gone over it. But his 3-point shooting wasn't HUGE. His percentage was great, but he only attempted like 3/4 a game. He wasn't nailing more than 2 per on average, so a combo of Bell and Jones should easily replace that. Both shot over 40% last year and both should benefit from the open looks.

I wanted Padgett real bad. He's a legit PF with 40%, 25-foot range. That was a big loss.

Overall, though, most claiming the Suns are through fail to grasp some key info...

1. Without Johnson and effectively without Q, the Suns defeated the Mavericks 3-1, including two games on the road. While JJ and Q are gone for good now, Bell, Jones and Thomas come in to help replace them.

So, IMO, they aren't any worse than the Mavericks, who, have had quite the offseason as well, losing Finley and Bradley (don't laugh yet) and replacing them with Christie and Diop (OK, laugh now)...

2. The Suns were one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the League last season. They gave up around 15/16 per game. With Thomas and Grant being added to Marion and Amare, hopefully this won't continue.

You forget. The Suns were a pretty good defensive FG% team last year. They just couldn't rebound. Well, with Bell replacing Q, Jackson and Jones replacing Johnson and having Diaw and Grant off the bench, the Suns should be better defensively and now be able to rebound their forced misses.

Sept. 9, 2005 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=476040&postcount=30)

The Suns system made Johnson and Richardson. Stop pretending it was the other way around.

Excluding last season:

Joe Johnson: 34% career from range, 30% in 03-04.
Quentin Richardson: 3.7 3-pointers attempted per game for career.

Last season with Nash and Amare:

Johnson: 48% from range.
Richardson: 7.98 3-pointers attempted per game.

Funny how things changed, right? Wrong...

With Houston in 04-05 Jackson shot 37%. With Phoenix, 46%.

This clearly shows that within the Suns system, 3-point shooters were made. So, when the Suns replace Johnson and Richardson with Bell and Jones, two 40% shooters, I'm not sure why it entales such drama from the media. Richardson wasn't the chucker until he got to Phoenix. Johnson wasn't the 3-point shooter until he was paired with Nash and Amare.

Jackson may be the best case, going from Houston to Phoenix and increasing his 3-point% by 9 points.

The Suns have four players on the roster that shoot 40% or better from range. Then they have Barbosa, career 37% and Marion, career 35%.

I'm still not seeing the need to panic.

....

I'll give you defense. I'm curious to see how things work as well, but here's what's known. The Suns last year were a top-12 defensive FG% team. That's not too bad.

They've rid out Richardson, obviously their worst defender, being that he's the laziest defender and replaced him with Bell. Perhaps bell isn't the lock-down defender some make him out to be, but you cannot argue this isn't an improvement defensively.

They lost Johnson, which hurts, but have replaced him with a platoon of Jackson, Jones and Marion... all equal if not better.

The loss of Hunter hurts, but he played 12 minutes a game, so let's not overstate his impact.

By adding Thomas and Grant, the Suns have two players who can muscle up the post player, allowing Amare and Marion to block shots in help defense.

As for rebounding...

Kurt Thomas is a top-5 defensive rebounder in the League. He'll be good for 8/9 rebounds with the Suns and he give them the box-out rebounder they lacked.

Brian Grant isn't going to play much more than 15 minutes per game, but he's a poor version of Thomas, boxing-out and battling for position. He'll be good for 4/5 rebounds if healthy.

Amare almost averaged 11 rebounds per game in the playoffs. He really started to turn the corner and did so against very good competition. Vs. the Spurs his rebounding was near 12 per game.

Marion is always good for 9/10.

That's close to 32/35 likely rebounds from the four frontcourt players.

That's really good. Especially when put in this perspective. Last year's frontcourt, about 24.

People are making way too big an issue out of the two players losses. At least the impact from 3-point range, anyways... The pieces are in place to replace those two and all things point to them doing just fine.

Obstructed_View

10-04-2005, 02:06 AM

Man, there's no way Phoenix is better this year. Their transition three-point shooting is gone. There is no way Raja Bell is comparable to Joe Johnson. Johnson is an amazing athlete with a beautiful stroke who can also put the ball on the floor and create his own shot. He's not the defender Bell is, but he's a lot more Bowen than Nash. Q was an integral part of that team last year. One bad playoff series and everyone says fvck him. That trade for Thomas was stupid. You can't make the team into something it's not. What they need is a shotblocking defensive big, not some aging undersized 4. If Stoudemire can develop a strong defensive game they're going to win a title... but without that they're going to need to steal a FA center next summer.
Werd.

Another intersting thing about the "system". All last year D'Antoni re-stated his belief that a fast-break style of play can win a championship. Well, he just lost most of his horses to do that, so now he either needs to force a square peg in a round hole or change the system that some are crediting for the good outside shooting. The only improvement they've made is to get their 3 back to his natural position, which is actually going to hurt them, because Richardson was a better 3 point shooter than Marion in the system, and Richardson shot a ton more threes than Marion does. They have Bell tagged as a starter, so who does Jackson take minutes from? Nash and Bell? Bell and Marion? You can play matchup with that all day and find a mismatch. There goes the defense they traded for.

As for making a big deal about the losses: Joe Johnson was traded for nothing of comparable or immediate value to the team. That's a giant loss, considering he was the only thing preventing them from being swept out of the playoffs by the same team they will have to go through this year.

SirChaz

10-04-2005, 02:40 AM

Werd.

Another intersting thing about the "system". All last year D'Antoni re-stated his belief that a fast-break style of play can win a championship. Well, he just lost most of his horses to do that, so now he either needs to force a square peg in a round hole or change the system that some are crediting for the good outside shooting. The only improvement they've made is to get their 3 back to his natural position, which is actually going to hurt them, because Richardson was a better 3 point shooter than Marion in the system, and Richardson shot a ton more threes than Marion does. They have Bell tagged as a starter, so who does Jackson take minutes from? Nash and Bell? Bell and Marion? You can play matchup with that all day and find a mismatch. There goes the defense they traded for.

As for making a big deal about the losses: Joe Johnson was traded for nothing of comparable or immediate value to the team. That's a giant loss, considering he was the only thing preventing them from being swept out of the playoffs by the same team they will have to go through this year.

I enjoy your posts and dig your avatar but I really don't think you understand what "the system" is if you can call it that.
You can't run if you can't rebound and that was probably the Suns biggest problem last year. Does it take some kind of special skill to run to the corner and shoot an open three as Johnson did much of last year?
The Suns system just needs five guys on the floor that can play ball. No defensive centers that are major liabilities. Guys that can shoot when open and adjust on the fly to what the defense is giving. Much of it based on the Nash/Stoudemire pick and roll.

They kept their most important players and added more players that fit the system. Sure the lost JJ but the also replaced McCarty, Voskuhl, Outlaw, and Shirley with guys that know how to play this style of ball.

Jackson doesn't need to take minutes from anyone. He is points off the bench just like last year and will get his 25 min a game. It is guys like Barbosa, Jones, House, and Diaw that will be fighting for minutes.

Obstructed_View

10-04-2005, 05:18 PM

I enjoy your posts and dig your avatarThank you. If we can't enjoy BSing about sports, then there's no point.

but I really don't think you understand what "the system" is if you can call it that.
You can't run if you can't rebound and that was probably the Suns biggest problem last year. If the team that led the league in rebounding says that its biggest problem was rebounding and not defense, then I don't understand.

Does it take some kind of special skill to run to the corner and shoot an open three as Johnson did much of last year?I guess we'll find out, because if it's that easy then Raja Bell will be able to take 300 threes and hit them at 48 percent.

The Suns system just needs five guys on the floor that can play ball. No defensive centers that are major liabilities. Guys that can shoot when open and adjust on the fly to what the defense is giving. Much of it based on the Nash/Stoudemire pick and roll.The Suns have no defensive centers. They have a power forward playing center because he's slightly less undersized than everyone else on the roster. They have five guys that can play ball, but I don't think they can play ball as well as the group they had last year.

They kept their most important players and added more players that fit the system. Sure the lost JJ but the also replaced McCarty, Voskuhl, Outlaw, and Shirley with guys that know how to play this style of ball.I disagree, and I'm not sure how you can say they upgraded their talent, and I don't know how you think that guys playing for the Knicks and the Jazz somehow know fast-break basketball better than the guys that left. Also, I think Hunter is going to be a player in this league, and losing him will be even bigger in coming years than it will be this year.

Jackson doesn't need to take minutes from anyone. He is points off the bench just like last year and will get his 25 min a game. It is guys like Barbosa, Jones, House, and Diaw that will be fighting for minutes.Yeah, that's probably right, but he hasn't been consistently reliable, durable or valuable in his career and relying on him as a sixth man is a concern. He is also the three point threat that isn't part of the pick and roll that you say sets up the open threes, so Nash is going to have to stay in the game in order for JJ to score.

mavsfan1000

10-05-2005, 02:14 AM

Obstructed_View

10-05-2005, 02:57 AM

The suns led the league in rebounding because they shot so many more shots than anyone in the league. Obstructed View Fails to see that rebounding differential is what matters. They couldn't do any defensive rebounding last year and adding Kurt Thomas fulfills this need perfectly for that reason. Raja Bell, Jim Jackson, and James Jones should fill in nicely with the suns system because they are all high percentage 3 point shooters. I'm sure training camp will help them adapt to the suns system by those running drills for fastbreaks.
Actually, I do understand that. It's just funny that the Suns don't realize that defense is what matters. If you can get defensive rebounds or turnovers, you can run the fast break. You have to rely on the other team to miss shots in order to get defensive rebounds and that's difficult when you don't play good defense. On the other end of the floor if you have someone trailing on the break that can't shoot from the outside then you've lost a huge dimension to your offense, so even if the new player gets more rebounds, the defense can stop the other players by clogging the paint, which was pretty much an automatic kick-out to Q last year. As a Spurs fan, that was a scary element to the Suns' attack, and he knocked down virtually all of the uncontested threes he saw.

Much of this is academic, because the Suns wouldn't have won as many games this year simply because other teams had the summer to figure out how to defend them. Even if the Suns don't come out scorching, it may not be due to their personnel.

mavsfan1000

10-05-2005, 12:35 PM

If you look at their stats on defense last year, they did a pretty good job holding teams down on field goal percentage. It was the extra rebounds that got them on trouble on defense. Also when the other team gets so many shots of course they will score alot. The suns style allows the games to be high scoring regardless of field goal percentage. I don't see the suns outside game being any different this year than last. Everyone on the floor can still hit those shots except some players on the bench like Diaw and B. Grant which I don't see them playing much anyway. They might lose a little on offense but gain alot on rebounding and defense.

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 02:01 PM

without the 40 ppg they lost
theyre gonna have to gain a shitload of defense to have the year they had last year

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 02:09 PM

without the 40 ppg they lost
theyre gonna have to gain a shitload of defense to have the year they had last year

So now they will only score 70 ppg.

:lol

They didn't "loose" 40 ppg. That is ridiculous.

mavsfan1000

10-05-2005, 03:05 PM

I guess Miami gained 30 points with the addition of Walker, J. Williams, and Payton than. That idea of losing 40 points is stupid because they got other players that get more shots that are just as good of shooters as J. Johnson and Q. Richardson. The offense isn't going to change either because it is still about Nash and Amare's pick and roll.

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 03:10 PM

If the team that led the league in rebounding says that its biggest problem was rebounding and not defense, then I don't understand.

If you say they had a large number of total rebounds I belive you. I haven't checked.

I do know that they were out rebounded in a lot of games last year.
I think only 4 teams were out rebounded more than the Suns.

I think they were close to last in the league in offensive rebounds allowed.

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 06:55 PM

we'll see
I'll just say right now the Suns arent going to win as many games this year, or make it past the wcf
I will bet my life on it.

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 07:15 PM

we'll see
I'll just say right now the Suns arent going to win as many games this year, or make it past the wcf
I will bet my life on it.

I agree they will probably not win as many regular season games.
They won't be sneaking up on anybody this year. A 37-3 start is unlikely to say the least.

As far how far they go in the playoffs I guess we'll see. A lot of things can happen between now and next spring.

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 07:16 PM

exactly
they won't win as many games
or go farther in the playoffs
so they are a WORSE team

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 07:19 PM

exactly
they won't win as many games
or go farther in the playoffs
so they are a WORSE team

OK, but if they do get past the WCF I expect you to kill yourself ok?

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 07:34 PM

if they make it the 2006 NBA Finals i will move to Scottdale or whatever lame city you live in and be your live in slave

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 07:52 PM

if they make it the 2006 NBA Finals i will move to Scottdale or whatever lame city you live in and be your live in slave

Oh god no.

That really won't be necessary.

mavsfan1000

10-05-2005, 07:53 PM

Winning 2 games against the spurs instead of 1 is an improvement though. :lol

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 08:03 PM

Winning 2 games against the spurs instead of 1 is an improvement though. :lol

Com'on man Mookie says that regular season wins is the only factor that determine if a team is better or worse.

Cant_Be_Faded

10-05-2005, 08:05 PM

No but someone who mentions the words Jake and Voshkul in defense of their team is not adding any more credibility either

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 08:08 PM

youre right chaz
unless you count the posts i said theyre not going further in the playoffs

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 08:26 PM

No but someone who mentions the words Jake and Voshkul in defense of their team is not adding any more credibility either

I said they will be better because they got rid of Voskuhl.

He never played anyway.

I do remember Jake with a game winner against the Spurs in 03. LOL

SirChaz

10-05-2005, 08:27 PM

youre right chaz
unless you count the posts i said theyre not going further in the playoffs

With that crystal ball you must have why don't you do something useful and get me the powerball numbers. :D

mookie2001

10-05-2005, 08:32 PM

well I'm no steven a smith
but i would say the wcf and best record last year is going to be yalls greatest season for a long time to come
unless yall find a sf, sg, and a pg for the future to play with Marion (who stepped up so big in the WCF, he made Jordan look like Nick Anderson) and amare (who i think is the 3rd best player in the game)

Cant_Be_Faded

10-05-2005, 08:35 PM

I said they will be better because they got rid of Voskuhl.

He never played anyway.

I do remember Jake with a game winner against the Spurs in 03. LOL

yeah i remember that too.....touche...

Obstructed_View

10-05-2005, 11:26 PM

I agree they will probably not win as many regular season games.
They won't be sneaking up on anybody this year. A 37-3 start is unlikely to say the least.

As far how far they go in the playoffs I guess we'll see. A lot of things can happen between now and next spring.
Well put. The Suns can still be a top three team in the west. There is some question in my mind as to whether D'Antoni will be as successful with the uptempo style and the new players, but just because the Suns may not start the season on a 75 win pace certainly won't mean they might not have actually improved.