Neocon poiticos defecting to Dem Ticket over Trump

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state under George W. Bush, says he will vote for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, in one of the most dramatic signs yet that Republican national security elites are rejecting their party’s presumptive nominee.

Armitage, a retired Navy officer who also served as an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan, is thought by Clinton aides to be the highest-ranking former GOP national security official to openly support Clinton over Trump.

“If Donald Trump is the nominee, I would vote for Hillary Clinton,” Armitage told POLITICO in a brief interview. “He doesn't appear to be a Republican, he doesn't appear to want to learn about issues. So, I’m going to vote for Mrs. Clinton.”

Dozens of Republican foreign policy elites have already declared their unwillingness to support or work for Trump, though far fewer say they would cast a ballot for Clinton. The latter group includes Max Boot, a prominent neoconservative military analyst and historian; Mark Salter, former longtime chief of staff to Republican Sen. John McCain; and retired Army Col. Peter Mansour, a former top aide to retired Gen. David Petraeus.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/richard-armitage-endorses-clinton-224431#ixzz4BocuRAtF

Trump might just shatter the GOP.

[boutons_deux]

Sure, neocons don't care who the Pres or what party, as long as the Pres is murderous, warmongering, MIC-enriching sonofabtich.

Hillary's the their man, never saw a regime she didn't want to change: Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Egypt. All fucking disasters to continue for years, if not decades.

Regime change in Iran is the neocon agenda, was even during the Iraq invasion. "Real Men Go To Tehran"

[CosmicCowboy]

Trump might just shatter the GOP.

Is that a bad thing?

[boutons_deux]

Is that a bad thing?

is that a good "thing"?

Trash is only trashing the Repugs' presidential hopes, not the Repug party.

Repugs may remain in full control of Congress, or at least will maintain strict obstructionism in the Senate, and with House Repugs (google "redmap") will continue defunding the parts of govt that BigCorp/1% wants defunded.

Trash will be trashed by Hillary, and the Repug party will continue fucking up the country uninterrupted.

The downward trajectory of the 99% will continue, while the 1% will continue to take 95% of all economic gains.

[TeyshaBlue]

Is that a bad thing?

Nope. Its a necessary thing.

[boutons_deux]

Nope. Its a necessary thing.

but it won't happen.

VRWC/BigCorp will maintain control of the Repug party, and lesser control of the Dem party, and thereby continue to own and operate govt for its own self-enrichment.

[TeyshaBlue]

:cry

[CosmicCowboy]

Nope. Its a necessary thing.

yep...Republicans are going to get pushed to the moderate center by the voters and the Democrats are going to get pushed to the left.

Yesterday Bernie said...


. "The major political task that we face in the next five months is to make certain that Donald Trump is defeated and defeated badly," he declared. "I also look forward to working with Secretary Clinton to transform the Democratic Party."

[CosmicCowboy]

Republicans might actually win elections if they were fiscally conservative and socially moderate as the Democratic party drifted towards socialism.

[RandomGuy]

Is that a bad thing?

Not really.

Our country could use more political parties. I have become a big fan of the parlimentary system as of late.

[boutons_deux]

yep...Republicans are going to get pushed to the moderate center by the voters and the Democrats are going to get pushed to the left.

Yesterday Bernie said...

Voter preferences are not taken into consideration by Congress, ONLY donor preferences get attention, regs, laws.

Watch Trump get trashed, while red/slave state voters elect the vast majority of the Congressional candidates.

The standard voter position is "my Congressional people are ok, even great. It's everybody else's Congressional people that screw up"

[hater]

:lmao thinking Shillary will be president :lol

[boutons_deux]

This is how the GOP rigged Congress: The secret plan that handcuffed Obama’s presidency, but backfired in Donald Trump

GOP stole the House with old trick in a brilliant modern form. A new book by Salon's editor lays out every detail

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/this_is_how_the_gop_rigged_congress_the_secret_pla n_that_handcuffed_obamas_presidency_but_backfired_ in_donald_trump/

None of the rigging will change when Trash gets trashed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is that a bad thing?

Nope.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao thinking Shillary will be president :lol

Thinking someone can win without the women and minority vote. 12 points down. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Republicans might actually win elections if they were fiscally conservative and socially moderate as the Democratic party drifted towards socialism.

Hillary is a real socialist. . .

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sure, neocons don't care who the Pres or what party, as long as the Pres is murderous, warmongering, MIC-enriching sonofabtich.

Hillary's the their man, never saw a regime she didn't want to change: Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Egypt. All fucking disasters to continue for years, if not decades.

Regime change in Iran is the neocon agenda, was even during the Iraq invasion. "Real Men Go To Tehran"

I'll let them speak for themselves but they haven't been dem pretty much ever. That certainly wasn't the case when Nixon was ending the Vietnam War. Your ideology fails.

[RandomGuy]

:lmao thinking Shillary will be president :lol

So what will you say if you end up being wrong?

All these mocking posts... will haunt you.

[RandomGuy]

This is how the GOP rigged Congress: The secret plan that handcuffed Obama’s presidency, but backfired in Donald Trump

GOP stole the House with old trick in a brilliant modern form. A new book by Salon's editor lays out every detail

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/this_is_how_the_gop_rigged_congress_the_secret_pla n_that_handcuffed_obamas_presidency_but_backfired_ in_donald_trump/

None of the rigging will change when Trash gets trashed.



Dude fucking nailed it.


You can trace gerrymandering back to the late 1700s, but the plan that the Republicans executed in 2010 and 2011 reinvented this game in a completely modern and transformative way. When Barack Obama was elected president in 2008, it was the fourth presidential election out of five in which the Democrats won the popular vote. They took 23 of 33 Senate seats and opened up a supermajority. They held the House. The future demographics looked scary. And when you look again at the Election Night coverage, the leading Republican intellectuals were wringing their hands about the GOP’s future as a national party. But then a handful of brilliant Republican strategists centered around the Republican State Leadership Committee hit on a plan: They recognized that 2010 was a “zero year,” and that zero years reverberate through the rest of the decade because that’s when every Congressional district and state legislative district gets redrawn.

[RandomGuy]

The two key tacticians behind REDMAP (for Redistricting Majority Project), Chris Jankowski and Ed Gillespie, recognized that if they crafted a plan to flip state legislative chambers in enough key states–especially purplish states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, Florida and Wisconsin–that they could control redistricting in these states and redraw both the state and federal lines in a way that built the Republicans a firewall in the House of Representatives. They spent $30 million on state races and blew these Democratic incumbents out of the water, and recaptured control of all those state capitals. Then, they provided state legislators with the mapping, technological and legal help to draw impregnable lines. It worked exactly as planned, helped along by the fact that 2010 was a year of Democratic malaise and low turnout. This is the biggest political heist, and the biggest political bargain, in modern memory. Linda McMahon spent $100 million on two losing Senate races in Connecticut. For a third of that, the GOP locked in control of the House for a decade–and took dozens of previously competitive races off the board, where they would have had to have spent more money.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So what will you say if you end up being wrong?

All these mocking posts... will haunt you.

Nah and if it does he will just switch accounts. Wait for something to happen that justifies coming back for a told you so.

[RandomGuy]

“Cracking” is to divide a city in pieces in order to divide a partisan stronghold. That’s what the GOP did in Asheville, North Carolina, for example, dividing an artsy enclave into two districts to minimize Democratic votes. That resulted in the end of Heath Shuler’s career, a conservative Democrat, and led to the election of Mark Meadows, a Tea Party extremist who made the parliamentary move that took down John Boehner — so it’s an example of how the extreme gerrymandering has shifted the kind of people elected to Congress and, ironically, made it more difficult for the GOP leadership to control the caucus they created. “Packing” is what they did in Pennsylvania to Chaka Fattah, for example, adding so many Democratic votes to one district that it “bleaches” the surrounding districts

fuck, they are really reaping what they sowed.


It amounts to a huge overreach, making the country seem like it tilted more than it actually did.

The GOP, taking that signal as some sort of green light to advance extremist policies over what the majority of americans are comfortable with... have done exactly that.

Provoking a backlash against people who aren't as extreme.

Interesting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

fuck, they are really reaping what they sowed.


It amounts to a huge overreach, making the country seem like it tilted more than it actually did.

The GOP, taking that signal as some sort of green light to advance extremist policies over what the majority of americans are comfortable with... have done exactly that.

Provoking a backlash against people who aren't as extreme.

Interesting.

Single member districts are an antiquated blight. The county system goes back to feudalism.

[RandomGuy]

Nah and if it does he will just switch accounts. Wait for something to happen that justifies coming back for a told you so.

I think I will simply start a catalog.

Easy to put into a text file.

The way I see it, this thing is shaping up to be a defeat of monumental proportions for the GOP, unless something changes, although I think the damage is already done.

Which will make hater look like the tool he is. Kind of hard to walk back the stupid shit he is saying.

[RandomGuy]

But it may also be that the Republicans have interest in fixing the system as well. After all, this last gerrymander locked in control, but it changed the nature of the party base and led to a very extreme House Freedom Caucus and took the ability to manage the caucus and the Congress away from the establishment. It’s among the factors that created the conditions under which Donald Trump could walk away with the party. It might take not only the public, but members of both parties of good conscience, to work together to find a fix. We ignore these issues at our extreme peril — as we have seen these last several years of inaction and decay.

One can only hope.

I have to resist the urge to give in to some frustration on the part of tea party idiots, and say "fuck the GOP". The country needs them, it just needs a GOP that isn't held hostage by zealots.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think I will simply start a catalog.

Easy to put into a text file.

The way I see it, this thing is shaping up to be a defeat of monumental proportions for the GOP, unless something changes, although I think the damage is already done.

Which will make hater look like the tool he is. Kind of hard to walk back the stupid shit he is saying.

He's made an artform out of saying stupid shit. At least with him it's funny in a farcical sense. The others around here with the shrill need of attention through stark racism, sexism, and the like not so much.

Nice to see you posting more often once more.

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lol ITT lobs clinging to the hope of no indictment. Literally their only chance.

[TheSanityAnnex]

And same for repubs...indictment literally their only chance.

[boutons_deux]

Nixon was ending the Vietnam War. Your ideology fails.

holy shit!

Nixon/Repugs SCUTTLED the 1968 Paris peace talks just before the election, denying the Dems/Hubert Humphrey/LBJ the campaign boosting credit.

Nixon/Repugs PROLONGED the VN war by many years, many 100Ks of American death and injuries. The DIRTY TRICK "better deal" the secretly Repugs promised the N Vietnamese turned out to be 7 more years of death and destruction of Viet Nam, plus the bombing of Cambodia.

"Nixon was ending the Vietnam War" :lol :lol :lol :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

holy shit!

Nixon/Repugs SCUTTLED the 1968 Paris peace talks just before the election, denying the Dems/Hubert Humphrey/LBJ the campaign boosting credit.

Nixon/Repugs PROLONGED the VN war by many years, many 100Ks of American death and injuries. The DIRTY TRICK "better deal" the secretly Repugs promised the N Vietnamese turned out to be 7 more years of death and destruction of Viet Nam, plus the bombing of Cambodia.

"Nixon was ending the Vietnam War" :lol :lol :lol :lol

While I agree Nixon was corrupt, I don't buy that he was able to scuttle the talks and I also won't deny it was his concessions regarding a ceasefire that got it to work.

Nice excuse making for your 1968 loss though.

[boutons_deux]

I don't buy that he was able to scuttle the talks

Repugs promised NVN a "better deal" if Nixon won, just like Repugs promised "no retaliation" to the Iranians if they would hold the hostages until/if St Ronnie beat Jimmy. Hole them, denying Carter credit, released them the day St Ronnie was sworn in.

USA didn't attack Iran, but USA did supply and get its proxy Saddam to attack Iran.

[TeyshaBlue]

While I agree Nixon was corrupt, I don't buy that he was able to scuttle the talks and I also won't deny it was his concessions regarding a ceasefire that got it to work.

Nice excuse making for your 1968 loss though.

And you were telling me not to argue with ideologues. :lol

[boutons_deux]

And you were telling me not to argue with ideologues. :lol

FuzzyButt will piss away pages

and I got facts, not ideology.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Repugs promised NVN a "better deal" if Nixon won,

Proof? Something better than the shit NBADan, WC, hater, and Darrin posts please.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you were telling me not to argue with ideologues. :lol

:lol fair enough

[Reck]

:lmao thinking Shillary will be president :lol

It sure as fuck won't be Trump though.

[Reck]

And same for repubs...indictment literally their only chance.

Say she does..then comes Bernie and Trump gets beaten even worst. There is no situation in which Trump wins.

[Will Hunting]

Republicans might actually win elections if they were fiscally conservative and socially moderate as the Democratic party drifted towards socialism.

You're kidding yourself if you think Bernie is now going to have more of an impact than he ever did as the socialist senator in Vermont who wasn't running for president. Shillary might pretend to care about the progressive wing of the Democratic party just enough to get elected, then she'll go back to being the center right wing corporate prostitute she's been her entire career.

The GOP should be taking notes on all the progressive things Shillary said during the primary that she won't live up to. There's loads of material to choose from.

[Will Hunting]

:lol ITT lobs clinging to the hope of no indictment. Literally their only chance.

I might be a "lob" but I would love to see a Shillary indictment, however anyone thinking it'll happen is delusional.

There's no way the Clinton family hasn't already stacked the deck to make sure nothing happens. You really don't think the Clintons will be able to quash a fucking email scandal with everything else they've been able to bury :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Shouldn't that be clinging to the hope of an indictment?

Anyway Reck shat on that take pretty well already. Trump has no chance against Bernie either.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're kidding yourself if you think Bernie is now going to have more of an impact than he ever did as the socialist senator in Vermont who wasn't running for president. Shillary might pretend to care about the progressive wing of the Democratic party just enough to get elected, then she'll go back to being the center right wing corporate prostitute she's been her entire career.

The GOP should be taking notes on all the progressive things Shillary said during the primary that she won't live up to. There's loads of material to choose from.

Considering that he is a leader of the millennial demographic by a large margin over anyone else, your take seems incredibly myopic particularly with the boomer die off accelerating. He's outlined already the types of policies they prefer and more and more candidates are going to try to cater to them given the fact they have taken over as the largest demographic already.

[CosmicCowboy]

Considering that he is a leader of the millennial demographic by a large margin over anyone else, your take seems incredibly myopic particularly with the boomer die off accelerating. He's outlined already the types of policies they prefer and more and more candidates are going to try to cater to them given the fact they have taken over as the largest demographic already.

They won't always live with their parents like you do. As they start to actually get jobs and make money they will vote their economic interest.

The baby boomers you despise were the hated Woodstock generation liberals of the 60's and 70's.

I had hair down to the middle of my back and smoked pot like crazy :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They won't always live with their parents like you do. As they start to actually get jobs and make money they will vote their economic interest.

The baby boomers you despise were the hated Woodstock generation liberals of the 60's and 70's.

I had hair down to the middle of my back and smoked pot like crazy :lol

You can wishcast and make up nonsense all you like but it's typical juvenile tripe plus reductio ad absurdum from you. I do agree in the generational hypocrisy from the predominantly white boomers but given the diverse internal demographics in the millenials and their propensity towards city life, I don't see the analog at all.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/henry-paulson-hillary-clinton-voting-224793

More Reagnites and Bushites leaving the GOP ticket.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You can wishcast and make up nonsense all you like but it's typical juvenile tripe plus reductio ad absurdum from you. I do agree in the generational hypocrisy from the predominantly white boomers but given the diverse internal demographics in the millenials and their propensity towards city life, I don't see the analog at all.

And I've been thinking about this. The Boomer nostalgia recalls the hippies and the like but when you look at the voting record since 1964 when Boomers started voting and it's not liberal at all.

LBJ and Carter were both southern democrats and not progressive really at all and then you look at Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes and you really can see which way the wind blows.

The millennials barely started to reach their majority and they elected a black man who promised to be liberal even if he has ended up anything but and are now staunchly behind Sanders.

Boomer priorities have been about as self centered from the beginning. Stop drafting for war, lower taxes, free health care for boomers, and the like. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1965 and was a trend that had begun with integration that really began in WW2 and in major industries.

The famous boomers were hippies and the like but the rank and file have never voted as such and have always looked out for themselves. It's why it's amusing to see boomer chastising millennials as self centered.

[boutons_deux]

And I've been thinking about this. The Boomer nostalgia recalls the hippies and the like but when you look at the voting record since 1964 when Boomers started voting and it's not liberal at all.

LBJ and Carter were both southern democrats and not progressive really at all and then you look at Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes and you really can see which way the wind blows.

The millennials barely started to reach their majority and they elected a black man who promised to be liberal even if he has ended up anything but and are now staunchly behind Sanders.

Boomer priorities have been about as self centered from the beginning. Stop drafting for war, lower taxes, free health care for boomers, and the like. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1965 and was a trend that had begun with integration that really began in WW2 and in major industries.

The famous boomers were hippies and the like but the rank and file have never voted as such and have always looked out for themselves. It's why it's amusing to see boomer chastising millennials as self centered.

what hilarious bullshit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

what hilarious bullshit.

and you can only snark in response to it. youre the hilarious bullshit around her incarnate, fuckface. For all of LBJ's great society, he was a first class war monger.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Conservative columnist George Will has left the Republican Party.
The longtime commentator reportedly made the announcement during a Federalist Society event in Washington, D.C., on Friday.

Will, who resides in Maryland, said he changed his affiliation this month from Republican to unaffiliated.

A report from PJ Media quoted Will as saying: “This is not my party.”

He also said that it’s too late for the Republican Party to nominate someone who isn’t Donald Trump, an idea that those in the Never Trump movement have been holding on to as the convention nears.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/george-will-leaves-gop-224801#ixzz4CdC9cNSs

[dbestpro]

The illusion of certain republican leaders is wearing off and their true colors as pro-establishment, and self interests are beginning to appear. Hillary will win, but every thing she will do economically will help the rich to get richer, the middle income to get poorer, and the poor to stay right where they are so we can have the same argument in another 4 years. There truly is very little difference between the parties. The arguments that do exist are manufactured to keep us all looking at the magic trick. Plato's, "Myth of the Cave," lives.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Many Republicans rebuked presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump for his remarks suggesting that Latino and Muslim judges would be unable to rule fairly on a trial involving the candidate. State Senator David Johnson did them one better: he left the party.

"I'm a Republican at heart, but I don't think it's enough to say 'I disagree with Mr. Trump' or 'I find him offensive' or 'I believe his comments are inappropriate' or to actually call him the bigot he is, and then say I'm still going to support him. I thought the mood of the country is we really don't like politicians who say one thing and do another. So I just decided on primary day, on Tuesday to go into the auditor's office and change my registration from Republican to No Party."

http://iowapublicradio.org/post/state-senator-who-left-gop-its-not-enough-call-trump-bigot


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Virginia GOP delegate sues for freedom to vote against Trump

There's now a legal challenge behind the "Never Trump" movement.

Virginia Republican delegate Beau Correll filed a federal lawsuit on Friday seeking the freedom to vote for someone other than Donald Trump at the party's national convention in July.

"Donald Trump does not exhibit the judgment, the competency for the highest office in the land," Correll told CBS News.

But state law compels all Virginia delegates to vote "for the candidate receiving the most votes in the primary," even though party rules allocate delegates differently.

Correll, a Ted Cruz supporter, says the law violates his First Amendment rights.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/virginia-gop-delegate-sues-for-freedom-to-vote-against-trump/

[Reck]

The illusion of certain republican leaders is wearing off and their true colors as pro-establishment, and self interests are beginning to appear. Hillary will win, but every thing she will do economically will help the rich to get richer, the middle income to get poorer, and the poor to stay right where they are so we can have the same argument in another 4 years. There truly is very little difference between the parties. The arguments that do exist are manufactured to keep us all looking at the magic trick. Plato's, "Myth of the Cave," lives.

Not if she picks Warren as her running mate. They hit the campaign trail together today and both spoke very harshly about Wall Street.

As long as she picks a real proggresive VP, she will be held to that standard.

[rmt]

They won't always live with their parents like you do. As they start to actually get jobs and make money they will vote their economic interest.

The baby boomers you despise were the hated Woodstock generation liberals of the 60's and 70's.

I had hair down to the middle of my back and smoked pot like crazy :lol

Yep. Sounds like my son's classmates. They all shut up when the teacher says, "Free college tuition and free healthcare sounds wonderful until they start taking it out of your paycheck." And these are all mostly low-income, (gifted) hispanic kids aspiring to be doctors, lawyers, engineers and such.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yep. Sounds like my son's classmates. They all shut up when the teacher says, "Free college tuition and free healthcare sounds wonderful until they start taking it out of your paycheck." And these are all mostly low-income, (gifted) hispanic kids aspiring to be doctors, lawyers, engineers and such.

Health care is proposed to be paid with an increase in payroll tax. The tradeoff would be removal of the health care burden on business entire.

His education would be paid for by:


The cost of this $75 billion a year plan is fully paid for by imposing a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy seven years ago. More than 1,000 economists have endorsed a tax on Wall Street speculation and today some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax including Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, and China. If the taxpayers of this country could bailout Wall Street in 2008, we can make public colleges and universities tuition free and debt free throughout the country.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

Your dumbed down interpretation is based on bullshit even if common amongst poor whites in the south.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not if she picks Warren as her running mate. They hit the campaign trail together today and both spoke very harshly about Wall Street.

As long as she picks a real proggresive VP, she will be held to that standard.

:lmao

[pgardn]

:lmao thinking Shillary will be president :lol

So is the "referendum" on you leaving the board if she wins in place?

Just curious if you have any guts. I know you need this site, it's a big step for trolling addict.

[pgardn]

And I've been thinking about this. The Boomer nostalgia recalls the hippies and the like but when you look at the voting record since 1964 when Boomers started voting and it's not liberal at all.

LBJ and Carter were both southern democrats and not progressive really at all and then you look at Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes and you really can see which way the wind blows.

The millennials barely started to reach their majority and they elected a black man who promised to be liberal even if he has ended up anything but and are now staunchly behind Sanders.

Boomer priorities have been about as self centered from the beginning. Stop drafting for war, lower taxes, free health care for boomers, and the like. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1965 and was a trend that had begun with integration that really began in WW2 and in major industries.

The famous boomers were hippies and the like but the rank and file have never voted as such and have always looked out for themselves. It's why it's amusing to see boomer chastising millennials as self centered.

This is a major conservative tenet. People will react for themselves before the greater good. This is what capitalism, the free market, and conservative economics are broadly based on IMO. I don't think there is any generation that does not act selfishly in some way unless faced with a real threat like Hitler. One can actually get people to work together in large numbers if a threat is deemed real. This is why people like Trump try to invent or vastly exaggerate perceived threats. This produces a voting wave of unity.

It is also perplexing to me how many generations, including this one, can be duped into thinking WE are the special ones that are living in uniquely dire times. It is also a bit amusing, but usefully comforting, how generations are so neatly packaged so we think we can explain behavior, or just label and organize.

[Reck]

:lmao

Do you have anything else other than your retarded emoticon?

[rmt]

Health care is proposed to be paid with an increase in payroll tax. The tradeoff would be removal of the health care burden on business entire.

His education would be paid for by:



https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

Your dumbed down interpretation is based on bullshit even if common amongst poor whites in the south.

You go ahead and believe these politicians and economists - much I'm sure like people believed them on Obamacare - which almost none of their predictions have come true. They always underestimate and feed their bs to us voters who should know better. If Medicare is in trouble after workers' lifetimes' contributions, what % payroll tax are they selling to pay for healthcare that now consumes 18% of GDP. There is no way of getting around us paying a LOT more taxes (in addition to continuing paying for Medicare) and for what - to go to hospitals that look like those in the VA?

Most of my son's classmates will get free rides to great universities through hard work and being low-income hispanics so their college tuition and (with continued hard work) futures are pretty set - what they are reminded of now is the idea that their hard worked money will be going to pay for others' "free" healthcare. Everyone wants "free" but nothing is free and someone must pay - most likely the working middle class. I guess the question should be who will be working when all this stuff is guaranteed "free"?

[Fabbs]

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/george-will-leaves-gop-224801#ixzz4CdC9cNSs
Does Bow Tie phaggot actually have any pull with Repug voters?
He puts me to sleep.

[pgardn]

Does Bow Tie phaggot actually have any pull with Repug voters?
He puts me to sleep.

Imo bowtie and the late William Buckley actually tried to think through their positions instead of lower brainstem reflex responsive neural behavior. And they usually did not attempt to be disingenuous, even if their positions might be distasteful.

So I would answer absolutely NO. For the people voting for Trump.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.truth-out.org/media/k2/items/src/86117fdbb374694c1559327b418a4d46.jpg

[pgardn]

Boots and Splits pretending to uphold moral superiority and then wishing death upon "the other side" of their choosing...

[z0sa]

Yep. Sounds like my son's classmates. They all shut up when the teacher says, "Free college tuition and free healthcare sounds wonderful until they start taking it out of your paycheck." And these are all mostly low-income, (gifted) hispanic kids aspiring to be doctors, lawyers, engineers and such.

"Gifted" indeed. :lol

[rmt]

"Gifted" indeed. :lol

Mock all you want, but I haven't seen a more ambitious, hard-working set of kids in my life. They know that the ticket out of poverty is education. Now as far as the label "gifted" is concerned - yes, the public schools abuse it because gifted kids bring more funds. On average, there should only be 1 gifted child per 100 so the numbers who are labelled gifted are WAY over that percentage.

[Spurminator]

So I would answer absolutely NO. For the people voting for Trump.

I'd vote No for the vast majority. George Will is on an opposite pole with the growing, stubborn anti-intellectualism of the right. Thoughtfulness is not valued over bravado.

[z0sa]

Mock all you want, but I haven't seen a more ambitious, hard-working set of kids in my life. They know that the ticket out of poverty is education. Now as far as the label "gifted" is concerned - yes, the public schools abuse it because gifted kids bring more funds. On average, there should only be 1 gifted child per 100 so the numbers who are labelled gifted are WAY over that percentage.

All deflection from your previous post. Both you and your "gifted" children's insructor are liars and frauds.

[rmt]

All deflection from your previous post. Both you and your "gifted" children's insructor are liars and frauds.

How'd believing politicians and economists like Obama and Gruber on Obamacare do for most of the working middle class? Who were the liars? There's a lot of history to prove that what the politicians promise and what happened in reality are vastly different - take your pick of any social welfare/government program.

[pgardn]

How'd believing politicians and economists like Obama and Gruber on Obamacare do for most of the working middle class? Who were the liars? There's a lot of history to prove that what the politicians promise and what happened in reality are vastly different - take your pick of any social welfare/government program.

Was there anything wrong with health care before Obama got a hold of it?

What was the Bush plan? What is the Trump plan?
So healthcare was all good under Republican care?

What economist who is relevant today best fits how you think economies really function?

[rmt]

Here is the GOP ACA replacement plan:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp-content/uploads/sites/47/2016/06/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf?tid=a_inl

IMO, single, able-bodied people without children should not be on Medicaid but the plan allows for continuation for those states who expanded Medicaid through Obamacare and stops expansion for the other states. Other than that, I'd like to see people on health sharing ministries be allowed to use the tax credit, HSAs and counted as continuous coverage (meaning everybody has access to a "tax credit" either through employer or individual). This plan will hopefully foster competition, posting of prices/shopping, remove burdensome regulations, reduce the financial incentive to NOT work/earn more (to get subsidies) and hopefully doctor/patient relationships (less between doc and patient). I love the HSA so people are encouraged to save for future medical expenses and those who are relatively healthy will be able to a get catastrophic insurance and bank the rest in HSA for the future instead of burning it up in premiums for ACA's mandated essential benefits. It retains the pre-existing and kids under 26 parts.

Here's Forbes' review of the plan:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/06/27/the-gops-obamacare-replacement-better-than-good/#6580a10b5341

[boutons_deux]

"foster competition" :lol anytime I see that, I absolutely know it's B U L L S H I T

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You go ahead and believe these politicians and economists - much I'm sure like people believed them on Obamacare - which almost none of their predictions have come true. They always underestimate and feed their bs to us voters who should know better. If Medicare is in trouble after workers' lifetimes' contributions, what % payroll tax are they selling to pay for healthcare that now consumes 18% of GDP. There is no way of getting around us paying a LOT more taxes (in addition to continuing paying for Medicare) and for what - to go to hospitals that look like those in the VA?

Most of my son's classmates will get free rides to great universities through hard work and being low-income hispanics so their college tuition and (with continued hard work) futures are pretty set - what they are reminded of now is the idea that their hard worked money will be going to pay for others' "free" healthcare. Everyone wants "free" but nothing is free and someone must pay - most likely the working middle class. I guess the question should be who will be working when all this stuff is guaranteed "free"?

This is dumb again. What didn't come true?

And we shouldn't believe the experts but instead we should believe politicians with obvious bias and conflict of interest due to how special interests work?

You make it seem as if he hasn't targeted taxes and he has. Now you're moving the goal posts to this incredulity bullshit? I just quoted where the money was going to come from and it's not free. You should stop repeating yourself like an idiot when you've been answered.

[TeyshaBlue]

Do you have anything else other than your retarded emoticon?
It's not my emoticon. I borrowed it from spurstalk. You used the word Hillary and the concept of a higher standard in the same sentence. Nothing else seems necessary

[rmt]

"foster competition" :lol anytime I see that, I absolutely know it's B U L L S H I T



boutons, Bernie's free healthcare is not gonna happen. It'll be a continuation of Obamacare if Clinton wins or the above GOP plan if Trump wins. Read the plan with an open mind, and decide if it's better than what we will have when all of Obamacare's cadillac plan, phaseout of risk corridors, etc eventually occur - it's not gonna be pretty. Catastrophic plans with tax-credited HSAs (IMO) is the way to go for the majority of the US - relatively cheap with flexibility.

Remember the cost for my diagnostic mammogram and bilateral ultrasound (both a level higher than the basic screening versions) is $80 cash each when there is no middleman. Also, check out the prices from https://www.directlabs.com/Home/CWP/tabid/192/language/en-US/Default.aspx for blood tests - look how cheap they are compared to if done through QuestLab or LabCorp. All the below Directlab tests (Comprehensive Wellness Profile) cost a total of ONLY $69 (special in the month of December) - regularly $97. Think of all the healthy people who could use that once a year and how much saved. Note: I'm not advocating self-diagnosis (Directlab provides the prescription) - but when I gave my daughter's lab results to the pediatrician, she was amazed - no way could anywhere she could send my daughter to cost so little.

Only $97

Every year you have a new opportunity to detect heart disease, diabetes and other conditions that could threaten your health. Take advantage with our Comprehensive Wellness Profile (CWP), our most complete general wellness panel.

Complete Blood Count (CBC)
TSH
Lipid Profile
Liver Profile
Kidney Panel
Iron
Fluids, Electrolytes & Minerals
Glucose

Complete Blood Count

WBC—White blood cells are the body's primary defense against disease. White blood cells help fight infection.
RBC—Red blood cells are responsible for carrying oxygen to and carbon dioxide away from all cells.
Hemoglobin—A chemical compound inside red cells that transports oxygen through the blood stream to all cells of the body. Oxygen is needed for healthy organs. Hemoglobin gives the red color to blood.
Hematocrit—Hematocrit measures the amount of space red blood cells take up in the blood.
MCV—MCV reflects the size of red blood cells by expressing the volume occupied by a single red blood cell.
MCH Mean—Corpuscular Hemoglobin is one way to measure the average hemoglobin concentration within red blood cells.
MCHC—MCHC measures the average concentration of hemoglobin in red blood cells. It is most valuable in evaluating therapy for anemia because Hemoglobin and Hemotacrit are used, not R.B.C., in the calculation.
RDW—Red cell distribution width (RDW) is a calculation of the variation in the size of your RBC's.
Platelets—Blood cell particles involved with the forming of blood clots.
Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils deal with white blood cell function. Important to the body's defense against infection and also important in the assessment of nutritional status. These tests are based upon percentages.
Neutrophils (Absolute), Lymphocytes (Absolute), Monocytes (Absolute), Eosinophils (Absolute), and Basophils (Absolute) deal with white blood cell function. Important to the body's defense against infection and also important in the assessment of nutritional status. These tests are based upon total count.
Immature Granulocytes and Immature Grans (Abs) deal with white blood cell function. These tests check the maturity, percentage and total count, of immature neutrophils, which can be neutrophilic, acidophilic, or basophilic in nature.
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Thyroid

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)-TSH, produced by the anterior pituitary gland, causes the release and distribution of stored thyroid hormones.
back to top

Lipid Profile

Cholesterol, Total—Cholesterol is a critical fat that is a structural component of cell membrane and plasma lipoproteins, and is important in the synthesis of steroid hormones, glucocorticoids, and bile acids. Mostly synthesized in the liver, some is absorbed through diet, especially one high in saturated fats.
HDL Cholesterol—High-density lipoproteins are believed to take cholesterol away from cells and transport it back to the liver for processing or removal. They have become known as the "good" cholesterol.
LDL Cholesterol—Low-density lipoproteins contain the greatest percentage of cholesterol and may be responsible for depositing cholesterol on the artery walls. For that reason, they are known as the "bad" cholesterol.
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio—This ratio is calculated by dividing the total cholesterol by the HDL cholesterol and is used for determining relative risk for developing cardiovascular heart disease.
Triglycerides—Triglycerides are fat in the blood responsible for providing energy to the cells of the body.
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Liver Profile

Protein, Total—Proteins are the most abundant compound in serum. The protein makeup of the individual is of important diagnostic significance because of protein's involvement in enzymes, hormones, and antibodies as well as osmotic pressure balance, maintaining acid-base balance, and as a reserve source of nutrition for the body's tissues and muscles.
Albumin, Serum—Albumin is the major constituent of serum protein (usually over 50%). It is manufactured by the liver from the amino acids taken from the diet. It helps in osmotic pressure regulation, nutrient transport, and waste removal.
Globulin, Total—Globulin, a larger protein than albumin, has many diverse functions such as, the carrier of some hormones, lipids, metals, and antibodies.
Albumin/Globulin Ratio—Calculated by dividing the albumin by the globulin.
Bilirubin, Total—A byproduct of the breakdown of hemoglobin from red blood cells in the liver, bilirubin is a good indication of the liver's function. Excreted into the bile, bilirubin gives the bile its pigmentation.
Alkaline Phosphatase—A body protein important in diagnosing proper bone and liver functions.
Lactate Dehydrogenase (LDH)—An enzyme found mostly in the heart, muscles, liver, kidney, brain, and red blood cells.
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST or SGOT)—An enzyme found in skeletal and heart muscle, liver and other organs.
Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT or SGPT)—An enzyme found primarily in the liver.
GGT—Also known as Gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase, GGT helps detect liver and bile duct injury.
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Kidney Panel

Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN)—A by-product of protein metabolism eliminated through the kidneys.
Creatinine, Serum—Creatinine is the waste product of muscle metabolism. Its level is a reflection of the body's muscle mass.
Uric Acid—Another by-product of protein metabolism eliminated through the kidneys.
BUN/Creatinine—Ratio calculated by dividing the BUN by the Creatinine.
Glomerular Filtration (eGFR)—Provides an assessment of the filtering capacity of the kidney.
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Iron

Iron, Total—Iron is necessary for the formation of some proteins, hemoglobin, myoglobulin, and cytochrome. Also, it is necessary for oxygen transport, cellular respiration, and peroxide deactivation.
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Fluids, Electrolytes & Minerals

Chloride, Serum—Similar to sodium, it helps to maintain the body's electrolyte balance.
Potassium—Helps to control the nerves and muscles.
Sodium, Serum—One of the major salts in the body fluid; sodium is important in the body's water balance and the electrical activity of nerves and muscles.
Carbon Dioxide (CO2)—CO2 level is related to the respiratory exchange of carbon dioxide in the lungs; is part of the body's buffering system. Generally when used with other electrolytes, it is a good indicator of acidity and alkalinity.
Calcium—A mineral essential for development and maintenance of healthy bones and teeth. It is important also for the normal function of muscles, nerves and blood clotting.
Phosphorus—Together with calcium, it is essential for healthy development of bones and teeth. Associated with hormone imbalance, bone disease and kidney disease. It is found mainly in bones and teeth.
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Glucose

Glucose— Glucose, formed by the digestion of carbohydrates and the conversion of glycogen by the liver, is the primary source of energy for most cells. It is regulated by insulin, glucagon, thyroid hormone, liver enzymes, and adrenal hormones.

[rmt]

This is dumb again. What didn't come true?

And we shouldn't believe the experts but instead we should believe politicians with obvious bias and conflict of interest due to how special interests work?

You make it seem as if he hasn't targeted taxes and he has. Now you're moving the goal posts to this incredulity bullshit? I just quoted where the money was going to come from and it's not free. You should stop repeating yourself like an idiot when you've been answered.

It's well documented that what has been promised/projected for Obamacare has not happened - Obama ($2500, keep your doctor/plan, cut costs), CBO (enrollment projections - 13 million instead of 21 million in 2016), Gruber (see the many videos). Are these the "experts" we should believe in? I guess it all depends on whether you believe that the money they plan on collecting is gonna cover universal health care. Color me doubtful - there's not a single government program that's not fraught with waste, over-spending, inefficiency - this is not counting when they divert funds from one area to whatever area they feel fit or just putting it on the tab for future generations.

[pgardn]

Here is the GOP ACA replacement plan:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp-content/uploads/sites/47/2016/06/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf?tid=a_inl

IMO, single, able-bodied people without children should not be on Medicaid but the plan allows for continuation for those states who expanded Medicaid through Obamacare and stops expansion for the other states. Other than that, I'd like to see people on health sharing ministries be allowed to use the tax credit, HSAs and counted as continuous coverage (meaning everybody has access to a "tax credit" either through employer or individual). This plan will hopefully foster competition, posting of prices/shopping, remove burdensome regulations, reduce the financial incentive to NOT work/earn more (to get subsidies) and hopefully doctor/patient relationships (less between doc and patient). I love the HSA so people are encouraged to save for future medical expenses and those who are relatively healthy will be able to a get catastrophic insurance and bank the rest in HSA for the future instead of burning it up in premiums for ACA's mandated essential benefits. It retains the pre-existing and kids under 26 parts.

Here's Forbes' review of the plan:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/06/27/the-gops-obamacare-replacement-better-than-good/#6580a10b5341

The Republicans finally actually made a plan?

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/28/the-gops-new-health-care-plan-shows-that

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/paul-ryans-flimsy-health-plan/2016/06/26/55faf584-38bf-11e6-a254-2b336e293a3c_story.html

oh good, Obamacare without numbers...

[rmt]

The Republicans finally actually made a plan?

http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/28/the-gops-new-health-care-plan-shows-that

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/paul-ryans-flimsy-health-plan/2016/06/26/55faf584-38bf-11e6-a254-2b336e293a3c_story.html

oh good, Obamacare without numbers...

True, there are no specific numbers, but you can use the ones suggested in the Forbes' article. However, it is not Obamacare. The vast majority of millenniums are healthy - they would not be penalized and forced to subsidize older, sicker people. If they choose, they can sock away the difference from their catastrophic plan into an HSA for the future. The tax credits would be based on age, not income thereby discouraging not working or reducing hours to fall under the cutoff subsidy level. Everyone would get some form of tax credit - not some get huge subsidies and others get stiffed - that's helps against the current feeling of the workers paying for those who are free loading. The continuous coverage helps prevent the current gaming of the system where people wait until they get sick before signing up or signing up only for January, get all your healthcare taken care of, and then cancel policy.

It gets the government and the myriad of regulations out of the way - no more website, no more advertisement, no more employees to help you signup every year and man help lines - govt total involvement would be one tax credit line on tax return. There won't be ACA's mandated essential benefits which most people don't need and drives up costs. There will be comparison shopping and REAL incentive to get healthier and save the money in your HSA. You would know what things cost and not be left to the mercy of some insurance company and whatever they choose to inflate/cover/reimburse.

And for those of you who would delight in stiffing the insurance companies, this would severely limit their power and reduce them to outdoing each other. I think there'll be mostly catastrophic policies for the young and healthy of all ages - that would greatly reduce costs. I do wish they would extend the HSA to allow sharing funds outside of the immediate family unit (say to uncles, cousins, etc) - that would bring in extended family, relatives, friends to help in case of serious health problem but baby steps... Imagine real competition in blood tests (see the above Directlabs), mammograms, x-rays, catastrophic plans, etc like lasik or cell phone plans. It puts the control where it should be - in the consumer's hands - not in the government or insurance company's hands - cut out the middle man and layers of administration but with competition resulting in high quality healthcare and lower costs.

Please, I urge you all to look beyond partisan differences and evaluate this plan on its merits, philosophy and possible control of costs - we can't continue in the direction we're going where healthcare is concerned.

[rmt]

I envision more of these popping up:

Free market-loving, price-displaying, state-of-the-art, AAAHC accredited, doctor owned, multispecialty surgical facility in central OK.

http://surgerycenterok.com

How do I embed a video?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's well documented that what has been promised/projected for Obamacare has not happened - Obama ($2500, keep your doctor/plan, cut costs), CBO (enrollment projections - 13 million instead of 21 million in 2016), Gruber (see the many videos). Are these the "experts" we should believe in? I guess it all depends on whether you believe that the money they plan on collecting is gonna cover universal health care. Color me doubtful - there's not a single government program that's not fraught with waste, over-spending, inefficiency - this is not counting when they divert funds from one area to whatever area they feel fit or just putting it on the tab for future generations.

It was supposed to reduce the rate of increase and it did. The enrollment figures were not reduced because state legislators did not adopt the medicaid expansion. I don't get my news from youtubes thank you very much.

I'll color you more than doubtful. WE have to divert funds because of a generation that voted themselves a free ride and reduced taxes on top of it for the past 40 years. Should we just let you all die horribly Logan's Run style? The solution is not more of the same.

[CosmicCowboy]

It was supposed to reduce the rate of increase and it did.

That statement is absolutely impossible to prove. You sound just like Boutons regurgitating talking points.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That statement is absolutely impossible to prove. You sound just like Boutons regurgitating talking points.

The rate of increase is measurable; it's a simple derivation. Health care costs which had been increasing at a steady pace did not increase at that same rate. That is provable. For example:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

You can whinge on cause and distribution of cost but it is what it is. Regardless she is arguing the opposite; are you going to concede she is wrong in that?

[rmt]

It was supposed to reduce the rate of increase and it did. The enrollment figures were not reduced because state legislators did not adopt the medicaid expansion. I don't get my news from youtubes thank you very much.

I'll color you more than doubtful. WE have to divert funds because of a generation that voted themselves a free ride and reduced taxes on top of it for the past 40 years. Should we just let you all die horribly Logan's Run style? The solution is not more of the same.

Those enrollment projections are for the marketplace - not Medicaid which has far exceeded projections (this is gonna be a problem for the states which chose to expand Medicaid through ACA). Please don't knock the messenger - I'm all for reducing the debt and all this spending. I don't see Bernie or Hillary's policies reducing but expanding the debt.

My solution is to stop all this influx of immigrants into the country who are further staining our educational, social, welfare systems - integrate all those who are here (probably takes a couple of decades), slowly raise the age for SS to 70 and keep raising accordingly as life expectancy rises, match Medicare age to SS age (this is in the GOP's plan), offer an amnesty period at low tax rate for corporations to bring back the trillions parked abroad with the understanding that it'll be spent on creating jobs, lower the tax rate for corporations so that it's lower than Canada/Ireland/wherever the companies are running to, no more H1-B visas - hire or retrain American workers, try to renegotiate NAFTA, stop TPP (see Trump's speech today), send education back to the states (which hopefully will try school choice so that kids aren't stuck in bad schools), loosen the rules and regulations on businesses (there are now more small business closing than starting), repeal and replace ACA with the GOP plan and keep refining it.

What are your solutions?

[SnakeBoy]

It was supposed to reduce the rate of increase and it did.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Those enrollment projections are for the marketplace - not Medicaid which has far exceeded projections (this is gonna be a problem for the states which chose to expand Medicaid through ACA). Please don't knock the messenger - I'm all for reducing the debt and all this spending. I don't see Bernie or Hillary's policies reducing but expanding the debt.

My solution is to stop all this influx of immigrants into the country who are further staining our educational, social, welfare systems - integrate all those who are here (probably takes a couple of decades), slowly raise the age for SS to 70 and keep raising accordingly as life expectancy rises, match Medicare age to SS age (this is in the GOP's plan), offer an amnesty period at low tax rate for corporations to bring back the trillions parked abroad with the understanding that it'll be spent on creating jobs, lower the tax rate for corporations so that it's lower than Canada/Ireland/wherever the companies are running to, no more H1-B visas - hire or retrain American workers, try to renegotiate NAFTA, stop TPP (see Trump's speech today), send education back to the states (which hopefully will try school choice so that kids aren't stuck in bad schools), loosen the rules and regulations on businesses (there are now more small business closing than starting), repeal and replace ACA with the GOP plan and keep refining it.

What are your solutions?

Have the immigrants pay taxes and expand medicare so not only you get it. Use a payroll tax and speculation tax. Increase the corporate income tax and tax on executive bonuses to encourage reinvestment and payroll expenditure. Tariff the shit out of companies that leave and tax their US holding anyway.

Constitutional amendment stating that corporate entities are not "persons or people." Constitutional amendment eliminating the single member house district and making the federal funding of parties egalitarian.

[CosmicCowboy]

The rate of increase is measurable; it's a simple derivation. Health care costs which had been increasing at a steady pace did not increase at that same rate. That is provable. For example:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

You can whinge on cause and distribution of cost but it is what it is. Regardless she is arguing the opposite; are you going to concede she is wrong in that?

:lmao Boutons Junior...

Stating as fact a future that didn't happen.

[CosmicCowboy]

The rate of increase is measurable; it's a simple derivation. Health care costs which had been increasing at a steady pace did not increase at that same rate. That is provable. For example:

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2015/11/12/388800.htm

You can whinge on cause and distribution of cost but it is what it is. Regardless she is arguing the opposite; are you going to concede she is wrong in that?

:lmao

That is total bullshit. you can't predict a future that didn't happen.

Read your own article. The same factors that kept cost down with Ocare would have been in play without Ocare.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When the rate of increase is steady and then changes it what it is. You can spam post and smilie to your heart's content.

[CosmicCowboy]

When the rate of increase is steady and then changes it what it is. You can spam post and smilie to your heart's content.

Read your own article baby boo.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Read your own article baby boo.

Pedobear, I did. You cannot articulate for shit.

[pgardn]

I envision more of these popping up:

Free market-loving, price-displaying, state-of-the-art, AAAHC accredited, doctor owned, multispecialty surgical facility in central OK.

http://surgerycenterok.com

How do I embed a video?

Player 1: I'm going to have heart surgery preformed by Doctor Dead because his prices are cheaper.
Player 2: I heard Doctor Live is more expensive but better quality.
Player 1: I'm going with Dead.
Player 2: Player 1, are you Live?

silence...

And the marketplace has again reigned supreme. The inferior product or service is gonna literally lose customers.

So, I was pricing replacement kidneys the other day and...

With Denistry I can see the market place getting rich people with great smiles, no biggie I guess. Poor people got bad teeth. With LASIX I can see (pun) the marketplace work as it has become less burdensome via technology. But with some procedures... Oh well, the rich guys get the good life doctors anyway. Is there anything in health care plans that say kids must be taken care of as a priority, starting with prevention regimens. Vaccines, check... What else?

The reason health care is very difficult, is because it's very difficult. Which is why Republicans avoided the problem all together on the federal level. Some would say because good health care was less of a problem for Republicans. Yes indeed, some would say this.

[TeyshaBlue]

It was supposed to reduce the rate of increase and it did. The enrollment figures were not reduced because state legislators did not adopt the medicaid expansion. I don't get my news from youtubes thank you very much.

I'll color you more than doubtful. WE have to divert funds because of a generation that voted themselves a free ride and reduced taxes on top of it for the past 40 years. Should we just let you all die horribly Logan's Run style? The solution is not more of the same.

Im in for Logans Run. :tu

The reduction, such as it is, is the result of a large number of factors...most of which are not a net positive....higher deductible plans, which have seen a significant increase, virtually guarantees less usage and more direct cost shifted to consumers. Sure, you see a paper decrease on rates but not on cost.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Im in for Logans Run. :tu

The reduction, such as it is, is the result of a large number of factors...most of which are not a net positive....higher deductible plans, which have seen a significant increase, virtually guarantees less usage and more direct cost shifted to consumers. Sure, you see a paper decrease on rates but not on cost.

Hey, I think prima facie that having for profit companies run a vertical demand market is a bad idea.

[TeyshaBlue]

Hey, we agree.

[rmt]

Have the immigrants pay taxes and expand medicare so not only you get it. Use a payroll tax and speculation tax. Increase the corporate income tax and tax on executive bonuses to encourage reinvestment and payroll expenditure. Tariff the shit out of companies that leave and tax their US holding anyway.

Constitutional amendment stating that corporate entities are not "persons or people." Constitutional amendment eliminating the single member house district and making the federal funding of parties egalitarian.

How do you define speculation? Is that like my 3x leveraged ETF funds? I don't think I should pay extra on that - I'm taking extra risk with my money - shouldn't I get extra return for that extra risk?

I don't agree with the increase in corporate tax - I'd want to incentivize staying and encourage companies from other countries to come here. I don't like ramming things down people/corporations' throats. The important thing is to create more jobs - not punish people/corps.

I'm fine with integrating those immigrants already here - but no more new ones for now. HEAVY fines for those who hire illegals - use e-verify.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How do you define speculation? Is that like my 3x leveraged ETF funds? I don't think I should pay extra on that - I'm taking extra risk with my money - shouldn't I get extra return for that extra risk?

I don't agree with the increase in corporate tax - I'd want to incentivize staying and encourage companies from other countries to come here. I don't like ramming things down people/corporations' throats. The important thing is to create more jobs - not punish people/corps.

I'm fine with integrating those immigrants already here - but no more new ones for now. HEAVY fines for those who hire illegals - use e-verify.

Stocks, derivatives, all of it.

Taxing corporations causes them to reinvest. It's a well understood phenomenon as they simply reinvest to avoid taxes. Currently the extra profits are going to executive bonuses and similar tripe.

[rmt]

Stocks, derivatives, all of it.

Taxing corporations causes them to reinvest. It's a well understood phenomenon as they simply reinvest to avoid taxes. Currently the extra profits are going to executive bonuses and similar tripe.

We already have capital gains tax on stocks - ordinary income rate for less than a year and lower rate for long-term. Do you mean more tax than that? On individual investors? As far as executives, they can make a law to count whatever they get as ordinary income.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We already have capital gains tax on stocks - ordinary income rate for less than a year and lower rate for long-term. Do you mean more tax than that? On individual investors? As far as executives, they can make a law to count whatever they get as ordinary income.

Like this

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/12/466465333/sanders-favors-a-speculation-tax-on-big-wall-street-firms-what-is-that

[rmt]

Like this

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/12/466465333/sanders-favors-a-speculation-tax-on-big-wall-street-firms-what-is-that

Nope, don't agree with that. As the article says, the big firms will find a way around it that us small investors can't (and the middle class is the one who will get hurt paying this). IMO, no new taxes - the government needs to live well within its means and at the same time work down the debt. It collects enough tax - cut spending and reduce waste.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nope, don't agree with that. As the article says, the big firms will find a way around it that us small investors can't (and the middle class is the one who will get hurt paying this). IMO, no new taxes - the government needs to live well within its means and at the same time work down the debt. It collects enough tax - cut spending and reduce waste.

There is someone that says that in the article that said they will figure a way around it. It's wishcasting but there are ways around that as well like setting up an oversight board or just using the one already in place. It's also the sole negative in the article which of course you latched onto like a good little sophist.

It's a small surcharge per trade and as the article states it's not the little guy that is trading a single stock 1000 times. The broker fees would eat you alive. They already give the average consumer such an impediment that they themselves dodge.

[rmt]

Amazing how .5% is such a small tax on stocks when it's the same .5% that retirees get on their savings accounts :-(

[RandomGuy]

Those enrollment projections are for the marketplace - not Medicaid which has far exceeded projections (this is gonna be a problem for the states which chose to expand Medicaid through ACA). Please don't knock the messenger - I'm all for reducing the debt and all this spending. I don't see Bernie or Hillary's policies reducing but expanding the debt.

My solution is to stop all this influx of immigrants into the country who are further staining our educational, social, welfare systems - integrate all those who are here (probably takes a couple of decades), slowly raise the age for SS to 70 and keep raising accordingly as life expectancy rises, match Medicare age to SS age (this is in the GOP's plan), offer an amnesty period at low tax rate for corporations to bring back the trillions parked abroad with the understanding that it'll be spent on creating jobs, lower the tax rate for corporations so that it's lower than Canada/Ireland/wherever the companies are running to, no more H1-B visas - hire or retrain American workers, try to renegotiate NAFTA, stop TPP (see Trump's speech today), send education back to the states (which hopefully will try school choice so that kids aren't stuck in bad schools), loosen the rules and regulations on businesses (there are now more small business closing than starting), repeal and replace ACA with the GOP plan and keep refining it.

What are your solutions?

Immigrants are a net gain to any economy.

If your proposed policy solution is dependent on something factually incorrect, that does not bode well for the efficacy of your preferred solution.

I would make it easier to immigrate, not harder.

As we now get to see, "repeal and replace" is a laughable joke policy. There is no Republican plan, hopefully that has become obvious to you by now.