Manny a future HOF??????

[Banks91]

I think this guy most likely will end up a HOF.

Right now his numbers are 33rd alltime homers with 435,
59th in RBI with 1414. At this pace, 2 years from now he'll be in top 20 in hr, top 20 in RBI's. Might be gettin ahead of myself ,but i think its pretty much guaranteed he'll be goin to the HOF.

[Sense]

Not in a near future.

He's still got along way to go.

[2centsworth]

dude he could retire right now and make the HOF. ONe of the best hitters of all-time.

[Sense]

dude he could retire right now and make the HOF. ONe of the best hitters of all-time.


Due to the fact that we look back at our HOF more often than ever, I doubt some people would consider him there.... not because he doesn't deserve it, but because we think too much of the HOF already in.

[Jimcs50]

Let us be objective here.

Manny is only 33 yrs old and with his numbers, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he can finish in Top 4 in career HRs and top 3 in RBIs, if he stays healthy.

Manny Ramirez arguably is the best all-around righthanded hitter in the league. He hits lefties and righties equally well, has tremendous power, even to the opposite field, and is not afraid to take the occasional free pass. His quick hands and good bat speed mean he is able to turn on most any pitch. Opposing pitchers will nibble around the corners against him with sliders and curves, not because Ramirez can't hit them, but because anything over the middle to him is asking for trouble.


The occasional brain farts both on the bases and in the field are part of the equation with Ramirez, and we fans lovingly refer to the mishaps as "Manny's moments." Ramirez actually has made himself a better fielder,(that throw to 2nd base to gun down Jeter after playing Jeter's hit off the Green Monster is an example) as he's grown accustomed to playing under the Green Monster. His arm is above average. His range is not as bad as it sometimes appears, but he tends to judge balls poorly and get bad jumps. Ramirez' long strides make him look lackadaisical running the bases, but he does give a full effort. He is not, however, a threat to steal or take an extra base.

Here are his career stats:

Career: Batting | Fielding
SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1993 Cle 22 53 5 9 1 0 2 5 2 8 0 0 .170 .200 .302 .502
1994 Cle 91 290 51 78 22 0 17 60 42 72 4 2 .269 .357 .521 .878
1995 Cle 137 484 85 149 26 1 31 107 75 112 6 6 .308 .402 .558 .960
1996 Cle 152 550 94 170 45 3 33 112 85 104 8 5 .309 .399 .582 .981
1997 Cle 150 561 99 184 40 0 26 88 79 115 2 3 .328 .415 .538 .953
1998 Cle 150 571 108 168 35 2 45 145 76 121 5 3 .294 .377 .599 .976
1999 Cle 147 522 131 174 34 3 44 165 96 131 2 4 .333 .442 .663 1.105
2000 Cle 118 439 92 154 34 2 38 122 86 117 1 1 .351 .457 .697 1.154
2001 Bos 142 529 93 162 33 2 41 125 81 147 0 1 .306 .405 .609 1.014
2002 Bos 120 436 84 152 31 0 33 107 73 85 0 0 .349 .450 .647 1.097
2003 Bos 154 569 117 185 36 1 37 104 97 94 3 1 .325 .427 .587 1.014
2004 Bos 152 568 108 175 44 0 43 130 82 124 2 4 .308 .397 .613 1.010
2005 Bos 152 554 112 162 30 1 45 144 80 119 1 0 .292 .388 .594 .982
Total -- 1687 6126 1179 1922 411 15 435 1414 954 1349 34 30 .314 .409 .599 1.008




I happen to think he will be a shoe in for the HOF by the time he retires, because his numbers will be too good to ignore.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manny Ramirez may be the best all-around right handed hitter since, oh, the Mays/Aaron era. At the very least, it's a close call between Manny and Alex Rodriguez.

As a hitter alone, Manny is probably better than A Rod. They have similar numbers of at-bats and plate appearances at this point in their careers (though Manny is 32 and ARod is 30).

In 6126 at bats (and 7080 plate appearances), Manny is a .314 hitter, with a .409 OBP, a .599 SLG (a 1.008 OPS). He has 1922 hits, 435 home runs, and 1414 RBI. He's also been a World Series MVP and has a ring.

In 6195 at bats (and 6925 plate appearances), ARod is a .307 hitter, with a .385 OBP, and a .577 SLG (a .962 OPS). He has 1901 hits, 429 home runs, and 1226 RBI. ARod has one AL MVP award.

I doubt many people would dispute that ARod is a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame. It would be difficult to fathom that a player with better numbers in comparable opportunities would not be in the same boat.

Numbers are inflated in this era, but Manny's ahead of the inflation curve for his career. If he plays 3-5 more good seasons without injury, he's going to retire with a .300 batting average, at least 500-600 home runs, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,800-2,000 RBI. He's 9th all-time in OPS and 8th all-time in SLG. He hits for average and power; he may be the only guy in baseball who can have a "quiet" .292/45/144 season. His teams have consistently made the post-season (both in Cleveland and in Boston). He's gotten it done over a very long period of time and while he's occasionally a flake, he's undoubtedly one of the great ballplayers of all-time.

[Jimcs50]

If he plays 3-5 more good seasons without injury.

I think this is a given. He has never had any serious injuries, and there is no sign that he is declining in his batting.

If is really unfathomable that he had 145 RBIs batting behind someone that had 148 RBIs. Manny is still my favorite player despite Big Papi's heroics. I like his quirkiness, because I am quirky too. His attitude has gotten so much better the last 2 yrs and the press really likes him now, and they are the ones that vote....as I said, he is a shoe in.

[atlfan25]

I'd vote him in for his home run pimps alone.

[2centsworth]

As a hitter alone, Manny is probably better than A Rod. They have similar numbers of at-bats and plate appearances at this point in their careers (though Manny is 32 and ARod is 30).

Manny is not a better hitter than A-Rod. I like Manny, but A-Rod is a freak.

[tlongII]

Manny is a lock for the HOF.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manny is not a better hitter than A-Rod. I like Manny, but A-Rod is a freak.

Sure. ARod is a better hitter, but his numbers are worse. I can see your argument.

It's all about perception. Manny isn't perceived in the same way that ARod is. But Manny, I think, is a better hitter than ARod. Not a better player, but a better hitter.

[2centsworth]

A-Rod's numbers are better than Manny's this year except in the RBI category.

Again, as stated previously Manny is a sure fire HOF in my book.

A-Rod continues to get better and he's younger, plus the guy has a legitimate shot at hitting 800 bombs!

[FromWayDowntown]

A-Rod's numbers are better than Manny's this year except in the RBI category.

Again, as stated previously Manny is a sure fire HOF in my book.

A-Rod continues to get better and he's younger, plus the guy has a legitimate shot at hitting 800 bombs!

He's 3 years younger than Manny (ARod is 30, Manny is 33). He has just as many at bats as Manny at this point. Manny has better career numbers in every meaningful category, including HR. ARod isn't really close in categories like OBP and OPS. I'd say that means that in their comparative primes, Manny has been the superior hitter. ARod might end up with better numbers based on longevity, but we're at a point of similarity right now and right now, Ramirez's career hitting numbers are better.

If I had to choose between them and needed one guy at the plate in a clutch situation (post-season game), I would take Manny every day.

[2centsworth]

[QUOTE=FromWayDowntown] but we're at a point of similarity right now QUOTE]

not at all. A-Rod's earlier years weigh in too heavily. However, if we're at a point of similarity we can use this years numbers which favor A-Rod in every category except RBI's.


BTW, as a Yankee's fan if there's one guy at the plate I don't want to see it's by far David Ortiz and has never been Manny. Trot Nixon and Veritek have struck more fear than has Manny. Yankees have handled Manny pretty well so maybe I'm jaded.

[FromWayDowntown]

but we're at a point of similarity right now

not at all. A-Rod's earlier years weigh in too heavily. However, if we're at a point of similarity we can use this years numbers which favor A-Rod in every category except RBI's.

That makes no sense at all. The point of similarity isn't age or years, it's at bats. And in ARod's first 2 major league seasons, 1994 and 1995, he had fewer than 200 at bats. The sample size I'm talking about is more than 6000 at bats. I don't think including those first 200 at bats is somehow unfair to ARod. Manny's career numbers include 2 partial seasons, 1993 and 1994, in which Manny had about 350 at bats, so that should account for any difference.

My point of similarity is that, over the course of their careers, they have had the same number of opportunities to roll up numbers. To this point in time (the point of similarity) you can't deny that Manny has better numbers. ARod may have better numbers in some years and Manny may have better numbers in other years.

But when you even everything out, Manny (in fewer career at bats) leads in hits, home runs, rbi, average, slugging, on base percentage and OPS. How exactly, then is ARod the better hitter?


BTW, as a Yankee's fan if there's one guy at the plate I don't want to see it's by far David Ortiz and has never been Manny. Trot Nixon and Veritek have struck more fear than has Manny. Yankees have handled Manny pretty well so maybe I'm jaded.

My point about who is better in the clutch had nothing to do with guys like Ortiz or any others. I was just comparing Manny, who has come up with big hits in the post-season, and ARod, who's best remembered post-season moment involved him acting like a little bitch while running up the first base line. If I had to manage one big postseason at bat and I could only choose between Manny and ARod, I'm going with Manny.

[2centsworth]

That makes no sense at all. The point of similarity isn't age or years, it's at bats. And in ARod's first 2 major league seasons, 1994 and 1995, he had fewer than 200 at bats. The sample size I'm talking about is more than 6000 at bats. I don't think including those first 200 at bats is somehow unfair to ARod. Manny's career numbers include 2 partial seasons, 1993 and 1994, in which Manny had about 350 at bats, so that should account for any difference.

My point of similarity is that, over the course of their careers, they have had the same number of opportunities to roll up numbers. To this point in time (the point of similarity) you can't deny that Manny has better numbers. ARod may have better numbers in some years and Manny may have better numbers in other years.

But when you even everything out, Manny (in fewer career at bats) leads in hits, home runs, rbi, average, slugging, on base percentage and OPS. How exactly, then is ARod the better hitter?



My point about who is better in the clutch had nothing to do with guys like Ortiz or any others. I was just comparing Manny, who has come up with big hits in the post-season, and ARod, who's best remembered post-season moment involved him acting like a little bitch while running up the first base line. If I had to manage one big postseason at bat and I could only choose between Manny and ARod, I'm going with Manny.

Here's the flaw in your point of similarity. A-Rod's career numbers are increasing because of his most recent years, his chart is trending upward. Judge the players at the peak of their careers to tell who's a better hitter. A-Rod's numbers are obviously weighed down by his earlier numbers which makes sense since he was expected to carry his team his first 3 years. It's also obvious that Manny has gotten most of his at bats over the last several years (during his prime).

My best guess is if we take their best 5 years when it's all said and done Manny's numbers will pale in comparison to A-Rods.

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's the flaw in your point of similarity. A-Rod's career numbers are increasing because of his most recent years, his chart is trending upward. Judge the players at the peak of their careers to tell who's a better hitter. A-Rod's numbers are obviously weighed down by his earlier numbers which makes sense since he was expected to carry his team his first 3 years. It's also obvious that Manny has gotten most of his at bats over the last several years (during his prime).

My best guess is if we take their best 5 years when it's all said and done Manny's numbers will pale in comparison to A-Rods.

But ARod's numbers aren't trending upward. Not at all.

His numbers improved from 2004 to 2005, but his numbers in 2004 were down substantially from 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003 and his numbers in 2005 were short of his totals in 2001 and 2002. Park factors affect some of that, but to say that ARod is somehow trending upward based on one season's improvement is just factually inaccurate.

I still don't see how 200 at bats over the course of a 6000+ at bat career is enough to "weigh someone down." I'm giving him credit for the home runs and RBI that he accrued during that time. But if you insist, I'll take out the numbers that accrued before either player became a full-time regular (Manny in 1995, ARod in 1996).

Taking away those early numbers, here are their career numbers:

Manny
AB: 5783
H: 1835
HR: 416
RBI: 1349
AVG: .317
SLG: .605

ARod
AB: 5999
H: 1857
HR: 424
RBI: 1205
SLG: .585

Seen in that light, ARod has 8 more home runs and 22 more hits than Manny in 216 more at bats.

Your argument again?

[2centsworth]

But ARod's numbers aren't trending upward. Not at all.

His numbers improved from 2004 to 2005, but his numbers in 2004 were down substantially from 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003 and his numbers in 2005 were short of his totals in 2001 and 2002. Park factors affect some of that, but to say that ARod is somehow trending upward based on one season's improvement is just factually inaccurate.

I still don't see how 200 at bats over the course of a 6000+ at bat career is enough to "weigh someone down." I'm giving him credit for the home runs and RBI that he accrued during that time. But if you insist, I'll take out the numbers that accrued before either player became a full-time regular (Manny in 1995, ARod in 1996).

Taking away those early numbers, here are their career numbers:

Manny
AB: 5783
H: 1835
HR: 416
RBI: 1349
AVG: .317
SLG: .605

ARod
AB: 5999
H: 1857
HR: 424
RBI: 1205
SLG: .585

Seen in that light, ARod has 8 more home runs and 22 more hits than Manny in 216 more at bats.

Your argument again?Very well done! I took out 2004 numbers for A-Rod and found the numbers per at bat to be almost identical. .072 hrs for both per at bat, A-Rod's Batting avg was .312.

I stand corrected, Manny is just as good if not slightly better hitter than A-Rod. I guess what makes A-Rod freaky is that he's a gold glove infielder who can steal bases and still swing the bat with the best of them.

[dbreiden83080]

I am a yankee fan and i say he would make the hall right now if he quit. Over roughly a 7 year run his numbers are some of the most dominant off all time, they are right up there with anyone in history.

[Jimcs50]

Manny gets 2 RBIs in the 1st inning with a double that he turned into a single. :lol

Manny being Manny.

:)

[Horry For 3!]

Manny gets 2 RBIs in the 1st inning with a double that he turned into a single. :lol

Manny being Manny.

:)
Well he better be Manny quick because Red Sox are down by a run when the 6th starts.