Argentina V USA Copa

[Thebesteva]

Starts in a few hours...not sure who to root for. Messi fan but also a team USA fan.

[Mikeanaro]

Messi gave a little of his finals luck & charm to Willow
Varejao went to GS, there is no way to win that way
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOB7QT4eCNbuzxArK9i8-0gODU2CV3KwqsBpyatm7fLU4ktUl5

[140]

Even with messi playing it won't be enough for USA to beat Argentina tbh

[Spurs9]

Didnt realize this was in Houston. Not really a soccer fan but would have been cool to see in person.

[TheGreatYacht]

You can have the 10,000 h!cks on the stands get on the field, and you still won't beat Argentina

[whitemamba]

Really hope the US advances tbh..

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Poorball
:lol Anyone who actually cares about poorball
:lol In before the 0-0 tie

[noles1983]

Starts in a few hours...not sure who to root for. Messi fan but also a team USA fan.

if u live in the US the choice is fucking obvious, if u don't, then yeah its a toss up i guess

[whitemamba]

:lol Poorball
:lol Anyone who actually cares about poorball
:lol In before the 0-0 tie

Mexico got scored on more times than your sister tbh..

[The Gemini Method]

USA!

[HI-FI]

USA!
WE ALL WE GOT

[The Gemini Method]

WE ALL WE GOT WE ALL WE NEED! Bomb Buenos Aires if we lose! Murder the board's South American beans! Wait...is that too far?

[HI-FI]

WE ALL WE NEED! Bomb Buenos Aires if we lose! Murder the board's South American beans! Wait...is that too far?
We need to export their women first, but then proceed as planned.

[whitemamba]

We need to export their women first, but then proceed as planned.

Their women... fire. South American women are the best in the sheets.

[The Gemini Method]

Their women... fire. South American women are the best in the sheets.


We need to export their women first, but then proceed as planned.

You're right. The Argentine ladies are straight fire. Save some of that grass fed beef then raze the fucker down. Rinse, repeat, for Brazil and Peru (Peruvian women are straight atomic fire). Then make the whole Central America/South America our southern agriculture hub. 'MURICA!

[HI-FI]

Screw it, I believe US pulls off the upset.

[HI-FI]

:lol damn

[whitemamba]

You're right. The Argentine ladies are straight fire. Save some of that grass fed beef then raze the fucker down. Rinse, repeat, for Brazil and Peru (Peruvian women are straight atomic fire). Then make the whole Central America/South America our southern agriculture hub. 'MURICA!

If Peruvian women are as good as their food , atomic is a great word to describe.

[noles1983]

i hate how they speed up our anthem, but the other teams are so GD long

[noles1983]

every time i watch USMNT i see that dumbass bradley making terrible passes and turning it over

[InRareForm]

messi is amazing

[noles1983]

would have been nice to keep it respectable, can’t build on US soccer popularity when the casual fans only see blowouts and beatdowns

[Thebesteva]

every time i watch USMNT i see that dumbass bradley making terrible passes and turning it over

Bradley is the reason the US team is such shit...he is the son of a former coach and has a lot of power on the team. He is literally just some dude off the street playing...absolute garbage ball. Soccer version of Luke Walton

[ElNono]

that midget guy is pretty good

[HI-FI]

that midget guy is pretty good
So is his hormone therapist

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao Povertyball

[ElNono]

So is his hormone therapist

should be on HGH, tbh... he's still too small

[HI-FI]

should be on HGH, tbh... he's still too small
I'm actually a fan, wish he didn't get the gay tattoo but that's metrosexual povertyball for ya.

[ElNono]

I'm actually a fan, wish he didn't get the gay tattoo but that's metrosexual povertyball for ya.

yeah, all of a sudden the whole team have their arms tattooed... I think it's a thing in Arg right now...

[HI-FI]

Fuck yeah, Christian Pulisic time.

[InRareForm]

easy 25 bucks won. over/under was 2.5

[noles1983]

pathetic, sooooooooo far away from the talented teams

[spursistan]

Bradley is fuckin trash..should concede the captaincy and GTFO the team..

[Darth_Pelican]

The talent level between the two teams is further apart than the worst NBA team & the best NBA team. The result is obvious.

[313]

Half of Argentina going to end up in the ER

[313]

The talent level between the two teams is further apart than the worst NBA team & the best NBA team. The result is obvious.
Not sure we'll ever compete at the national level. Maybe in four, to six years....maybe.

[lefty]

Golden United Warrior States of America

[K...]

I don't get it, y'all are down by just a field goal, can't you just score a touchdown and win? Great defense by the way...I'd assume a team as good as Argentina world have scored at least three times but to hold them to one fg is bad ass.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Once blacks in America start to care about soccer as much as they do basketball and football, is when you'll see the US dominate the world. Imagine Deandre Jordan growing up playing goalie? Lol no contest

[HI-FI]

Once blacks in America start to care about soccer as much as they do basketball and football, is when you'll see the US dominate the world. Imagine Deandre Jordan growing up playing goalie? Lol no contest
US has made major strides but not sure we'll ever match the passion and focus that the third world shitholes have for soccer. We got the talent but too many sports to spread it around, which is alright.

[ElNono]

US can always beat up little Mexico though, it's all good

[313]

Once blacks in America start to care about soccer as much as they do basketball and football, is when you'll see the US dominate the world. Imagine Deandre Jordan growing up playing goalie? Lol no contestSadly, I'm not sure that will ever happen. In the States basketball and football are seen as ways out of poverty. In places like Brazil, soccer is seen as a way out of poverty.

Kids growing up playing soccer in the states is like some kid in Argentina playing basketball. Sure we get a couple good ones but there are more appealing options to the youth in both countries.

[K...]

It's possible the NFL could die and soccer could take that talent. That's a possible scenario. Soccer should lobby for it

[K...]

Do we call this a skunker? I'd Is that a soccer term?

[313]

67-33 pos
10-0 shots

:lol

[313]

It's possible the NFL could die and soccer could take that talent. That's a possible scenario. Soccer should lobby for it
With all the concussion awareness lately, I could see a lot of parents pulling their kids from the sport tbh

[Silver&Black]

Did we dieded?

[HI-FI]

With all the concussion awareness lately, I could see a lot of parents pulling their kids from the sport tbh
It's already happening. MLS will continue to benefit. US soccer doesn't need a shitload of blacks to be great, but some of that athleticism would help.

[ElNono]

Actually, athleticism is what the US has too much of... this is a game where you need skills like precision in passing, patience, technical skills... the US has come a long way, but you can't ask them to measure up against top 3 teams in the World yet, tbh...

[HI-FI]

Actually, athleticism is what the US has too much of... this is a game where you need skills like precision in passing, patience, technical skills... the US has come a long way, but you can't ask them to measure up against top 3 teams in the World yet, tbh...
Where do you see Christian Pulisic a few years from now?

[ElNono]

Where do you see Christian Pulisic a few years from now?

dunno, but he'll be at Home Depot this Sunday...

[HI-FI]

dunno, but he'll be at Home Depot this Sunday...
:lol

[Darth_Pelican]

I'll be watching NFL games in person this fall, while the rest of the world begs for the USA to actually give a fuck about what happened tonight, despite giving the NFL top world ratings. Life is good.

[King Emmanuel]

Messi goat

[Clipper Nation]

It's possible the NFL could die and soccer could take that talent. That's a possible scenario. Soccer should lobby for it

:lmao Good one.

[Darth_Pelican]

It's possible the NFL could die and soccer could take that talent. That's a possible scenario. Soccer should lobby for it

It's also possible Jesus Christ could return from the dead.

[TheGreatYacht]

Couldn't even beat midgets :lol

If you were as good at football as you are at eating contests you'd dominate :lol

H!cks :lol

[diego]

Sadly, I'm not sure that will ever happen. In the States basketball and football are seen as ways out of poverty. In places like Brazil, soccer is seen as a way out of poverty.

Kids growing up playing soccer in the states is like some kid in Argentina playing basketball. Sure we get a couple good ones but there are more appealing options to the youth in both countries.

Great analogy, except Argentina beat the US in basketball twice in a row, once at home and again on the biggest stage vs a team built to avenge the first, with some players that never sniffed European leagues nevermind the NBA.

It's kind of sad the way you gringos reduce all sports to athletic ability and money. Argentina is successful in many team sports vs countries that are bigger, richer, more history, etc, and it's mostly just passion for the sport, be it rugby, basketball, volleyball, roller hockey...

And since this is the NBA forum and Americans love to diss soccer players flopping, if LeBron took an elbow to the throat like mascherano did today without even a card shown, he would be crying about if for weeks.

[midnightpulp]

US can always beat up little Mexico though, it's all good

Don't be smug. You're an American. Argentina should be your B-team, bro. :lol

Don't be like these Messicans who always root for Mexico because their abuelita crossed the border on a donkey 50 years ago.

[ElNono]

Don't be smug. You're an American. Argentina should be your B-team, bro. :lol

Don't be like these Messicans who always root for Mexico because their abuelita crossed the border on a donkey 50 years ago.

Just being realistic, tbh... 0-4 against a top 3 team in the World at the moment isn't the same as 0-7 against a very good team...

The US did real good in this tournament, IMO, but eventually you face teams that are currently at another level. It's part of the process, tbh...

[Venti Quattro]

Michael Bradley should consider retiring from national team duty; maybe if he has a little more decency he can consider retiring from football at once.

[midnightpulp]

Just being realistic, tbh... 0-4 against a top 3 team in the World at the moment isn't the same as 0-7 against a very good team...

The US did real good in this tournament, IMO, but eventually you face teams that are currently at another level. It's part of the process, tbh...

You know I don't follow the sport very carefully, but I didn't expect anything less than at least a 3 goal blowout here.

I don't know why US Soccer fans expect us to eventually become a power? Money plus population doesn't solve everything. Soccer has little to no cultural importance here. In soccer countries, every talented kid wants to be a soccer player first and foremost, playing morning, noon, and night, and then shoved off to an academy. An American kid will juggle 3 or 4 sports through his childhood and puberty and might chose to specialize in one during high school.

Until soccer becomes the 90% favorite sport among US citizens (like it is in other countries), the US will never grow beyond a middling team. And I'm okay with that. I like our varied sports landscape.

[ElNono]

You know I don't follow the sport very carefully, but I didn't expect anything less than at least a 3 goal blowout here.

I don't know why US Soccer fans expect us to eventually become a power? Money plus population doesn't solve everything. Soccer has little to no cultural importance here. In soccer countries, every talented kid wants to be a soccer player first and foremost, playing morning, noon, and night, and then shoved off to an academy. An American kid will juggle 3 or 4 sports through his childhood and puberty and might chose to specialize in one during high school.

Until soccer becomes the 90% favorite sport among US citizens (like it is in other countries), the US will never grow beyond a middling team. And I'm okay with that. I like our varied sports landscape.

It will happen, tbh, it will just take some time... it's a great sport, you have the ladies already hooked and the demographics are shifting where you have a growing latino population that will also help it (cue Trump wall jokes here).

The reason people think it will happen is because you have the manpower and resources. Once it's a heavy moneymaking enterprise (and soccer does move a lot of dough outside the US), you'll be digging every corner for the next great talent.

That's basically what the US is missing right now, the scouting, finding that jewel that will elevate the team. Might be a Perez or Gonzales, but he'll be American and get people proud and hooked up.

It's been a long process, but it's a process that's moving. You have US players that have played overseas, now you have a semi-decent league that's expanding, not shrinking. You're just not going to catch up to countries that been playing this stuff since 1901 in 10 years, maybe not even 20. But you're on the right path.

Nobody thought the US would be the best north american soccer team 15-20 years ago. It was always Mexico, and now you're more than up to par on that.

That said, I also appreciate the varied sports landscape in the US, tbh... I don't think that has to go away or anything like that, nor that US soccer depends on that.

[midnightpulp]

It will happen, tbh, it will just take some time... it's a great sport, you have the ladies already hooked and the demographics are shifting where you have a growing latino population that will also help it (cue Trump wall jokes here).

The reason people think it will happen is because you have the manpower and resources. Once it's a heavy moneymaking enterprise (and soccer does move a lot of dough outside the US), you'll be digging every corner for the next great talent.

That's basically what the US is missing right now, the scouting, finding that jewel that will elevate the team. Might be a Perez or Gonzales, but he'll be American and get people proud and hooked up.

It's been a long process, but it's a process that's moving. You have US players that have played overseas, now you have a semi-decent league that's expanding, not shrinking. You're just not going to catch up to countries that been playing this stuff since 1901 in 10 years, maybe not even 20. But you're on the right path.

Nobody thought the US would be the best north american soccer team 15-20 years ago. It was always Mexico, and now you're more than up to par on that.

That said, I also appreciate the varied sports landscape in the US, tbh... I don't think that has to go away or anything like that, nor that US soccer depends on that.

Problem here is that it's very unlikely that Perez or Gonzalez will have been trained in a top tier soccer academy since figurative birth. American parents won't stand for that (generally speaking, as there are some insane helicopter parents willing to do anything to live vicariously through little Johnny).

American athletes can't fade "academy players". Take baseball. American baseball players typically learn the game from dad and a little league coach who doesn't really know what he's doing. Contrast this to the Dominican Republic, who treat baseball like a Brazil or Germany treats soccer, raising and teaching kids in an academy system. If the Dominican had our population size, they would be so far ahead of us in baseball, it would be embarrassing. Luckily their pop is only 11 million, so we are still the better baseball country just by virtue of our population. But in soccer, we have to compete with literal billions, and relatively big population countries like Germany, Brazil, Argentina, etc, who are using an academy system.

As I told Apa in a discussion about this, if forcing kids into academy is what it's going to take, then no thanks to being a "soccer country."

[DAF86]

This is what you get every weekend on "soccer countries", tbh.

https://s25.postimg.org/uc99zb0sv/ezgif_267895569.gif

[apalisoc_9]

Id argue that if these poverty countries put in as much effort with other sports as soccer...the us would be nothing talent wise. Jist look at baseball and Hockey.

The issue here is that these soccer countries make the most out of the kids during their formative years.

[ElNono]

Problem here is that it's very unlikely that Perez or Gonzalez will have been trained in a top tier soccer academy since figurative birth. American parents won't stand for that (generally speaking, as there are some insane helicopter parents willing to do anything to live vicariously through little Johnny).

American athletes can't fade "academy players". Take baseball. American baseball players typically learn the game from dad and a little league coach who doesn't really know what he's doing. Contrast this to the Dominican Republic, who treat baseball like a Brazil or Germany treats soccer, raising and teaching kids in an academy system. If the Dominican had our population size, they would be so far ahead of us in baseball, it would be embarrassing. Luckily their pop is only 11 million, so we are still the better baseball country just by virtue of our population. But in soccer, we have to compete with literal billions, and relatively big population countries like Germany, Brazil, Argentina, etc, who are using an academy system.

As I told Apa in a discussion about this, if forcing kids into academy is what it's going to take, then no thanks to being a "soccer country."

tbh, I don't know where you get this academy thing. More than half the players in this Argentina team didn't really go to any "academy". They do start young and play on little leagues, and eventually if they think they're decent they go try out for an actual pro team (and anybody can really go to those tryouts, I used to play in Velez Sarsfield little leagues since it was close to home when I was a kid, and tried out once in River Plate). It's not invitation stuff, like some NBA/NFL tryouts here. I don't disagree with you that there's a huge difference in the process, everybody there wants to be a soccer player, so they go and try out, and the people that get to pick talent have a lot to pick from. That's something that will take time in the US, but it works a bit different now (they pick from college teams, or soccer little leagues, which there are quite a few, especially in areas like Florida, etc). But with the league expanding, having more teams and fans, you'll get that other system eventually set up, with kids growing up watching their home team that want to play for it.

And as much as team sport soccer is, you get a generational talent kind of guy (and it doesn't to be a Pele, Maradona or Messi), you then have a good foundation to put a team around. Most soccer teams really only have one or two stars and a bunch of utilitarian players. In that sense, it's not that much different from the NBA. And as Argentina has seen in the past 10 years or so, even having that kind of star doesn't guarantee silverware, but it does make for a top 3 team.

So I don't disagree the US is far, but it's traveling the right path. At least you're much further in that path than you were 10-15 years ago. It's still going to take some more time, but I can see where this is going, it's not bad if you're basically starting from scratch (which really is what you guys did after flirting with this thing back in the 50's).

[Clipper Nation]

The whole concept of soccer academies is fucking creepy, by the way, and it adds to the overall third-world nature of the "sport." Would anyone really be surprised if there was some Neverland Ranch type of situations going on there that get hushed up?

[ElNono]

I can only think of a couple of these "academies". I know La Masia from Barcelona, but it's really more an euro thing... even in Europe I don't think there's that many, tbh... I know River Plate in Argentina has a school on the team stadium that you could construe as an academy of sorts, but it's really more of a place to give young kids that move from far provinces and stick with the team a place to live and study. It's not really soccer teaching, but general education like any other school. Kids that live near the team don't even go there, just attend regular school and go train normally.

[apalisoc_9]

I can only think of a couple of these "academies". I know La Masia from Barcelona, but it's really more an euro thing... even in Europe I don't think there's that many, tbh... I know River Plate in Argentina has a school on the team stadium that you could construe as an academy of sorts, but it's really more of a place to give young kids that move from far provinces and stick with the team a place to live and study. It's not really soccer teaching, but general education like any other school. Kids that live near the team don't even go there, just attend regular school and go train normally.

Dude..messi got scouted and sold and he didnt have pubes yet

[ElNono]

Dude..messi got scouted and sold and he didnt have pubes yet

Messi tried out for River Plate actually, and the team didn't take him because they couldn't afford to pay for the hormone therapy he needed. That's when he went to Spain with his dad.

That's how precarious shit is in some third world countries that are soccer "superpowers", if you will. Brazil is pretty similar. That's exactly why people really do get a feel that the US will eventually rise up, because 90% of pro teams in leagues like Argentina are broke or completely disorganized (which is the reason most Argentine players end up playing overseas). Most highschools (not college, high shools) in the US are better organized and funded.

But the country still does produce great talent, not because of "academies", but because they get a huge pool to pick from, and obviously have some of the know how from doing it since forever.

[apalisoc_9]

Thats exactly it...do kids in the US get to try out for established teams to help them in their formative years? No...fuck most of them at that age are playing xbox and playing shitty varsity ball.

[apalisoc_9]

Heck Japan soccer whose league only started 22 years ago have Kid soccer "academies" thats why they went from no league nation to a respectble team.

They have 10 year old there repeating skills dribvles over and over and over again.

[ElNono]

Thats exactly it...do kids in the US get to try out for established teams to help them in their formative years? No...fuck most of them at that age are playing xbox and playing shitty varsity ball.

I've read some stories of players that couldn't make it pro in Argentina and came to play for smaller leagues here in the US. Some in the MLS. Some in US colleges. Actually, that Funes Mori guy that played today against the US, he played for the FC Dallas youth team after winning an MLS talent competition. Eventually he went back to Argentina, and today he's starting for the Argentina national team. So, you know, talent is out there. In some of these countries, talent comes to the talent pickers. The US is not there yet on that, but I think it'll get there. It will take time, and the MLS needs to keep expanding and getting stronger.

[ElNono]

Heck Japan soccer whose league only started 22 years ago have Kid soccer "academies" thats why they went from no league nation to a respectble team.

They have 10 year old there repeating skills dribvles over and over and over again.

There's none of that in Argentina (or Brazil, or South America in general) though. Kids get together and play the game in a gym or a park or the street. There really isn't the concept of academies down there. You can go try out for a team if you think you're good, but there's no guarantees. A guy like Banegas for example, he's what we call a pure "potrero" talent. A "potrero" being a run down soccer pitch you can find in most neighborhoods, like a basketball talent you'll get from Ruckers Park. He's good though, he eventually tried out for Boca when he was a kid and stuck, then raised through the minor leagues.

[apalisoc_9]

I've read some stories of players that couldn't make it pro in Argentina and came to play for smaller leagues here in the US. Some in the MLS. Some in US colleges. Actually, that Funes Mori guy that played today against the US, he played for the FC Dallas youth team after winning an MLS talent competition. Eventually he went back to Argentina, and today he's starting for the Argentina national team. So, you know, talent is out there. In some of these countries, talent comes to the talent pickers. The US is not there yet on that, but I think it'll get there. It will take time, and the MLS needs to keep expanding and getting stronger.

That's more of an outlier than the norm though.

[apalisoc_9]

There's none of that in Argentina (or Brazil, or South America in general) though. Kids get together and play the game in a gym or a park or the street. There really isn't the concept of academies down there. You can go try out for a team if you think you're good, but there's no guarantees. A guy like Banegas for example, he's what we call a pure "potrero" talent. A "potrero" being a run down soccer pitch you can find in most neighborhoods, like a basketball talent you'll get from Ruckers Park. He's good though, he eventually tried out for Boca when he was a kid and stuck, then raised through the minor leagues.

And he still made the league at a young age..super young. That's not even allowed in the US. You still have to go to universities to enhance your game.

Europe is fillled with soccer academies.

[ElNono]

That's more of an outlier than the norm though.

Sure, but I also think it also shows there's some development in that aspect in the US. The MLS didn't have those talent competitions before. Heck, there was no MLS not that long ago. It's part of a process. Eventually, you'll nail a very good talent, and then you'll have a better team than you have right now. As I was telling mid, it's a process. It takes time, and I know it's hard to have patience, but at the very least it's recognizable they're doing the right things.

[ElNono]

And he still made the league at a young age..super young. That's not even allowed in the US. You still have to go to universities to enhance your game.

That's because Argie teams are broke. As soon as they see a talented guy they feel they can potentially sell to Europe, they nab him.


Europe is fillled with soccer academies.

Not really. There's really few academies, especially that produce actual pro players... Off the top of my head: Ajax, Barcelona, Anderletch, and a couple of British ones (ManU, Southampton IIRC)...

What they have a lot of is "soccer camps". It's like summer camps here, but sponsored by pro teams. But, again, that's more of an Euro thing.

[mudyez]

was that the copa final or an earlier round?

[ElNono]

was that the copa final or an earlier round?

semifinal

[midnightpulp]

tbh, I don't know where you get this academy thing. More than half the players in this Argentina team didn't really go to any "academy". They do start young and play on little leagues, and eventually if they think they're decent they go try out for an actual pro team (and anybody can really go to those tryouts, I used to play in Velez Sarsfield little leagues since it was close to home when I was a kid, and tried out once in River Plate). It's not invitation stuff, like some NBA/NFL tryouts here. I don't disagree with you that there's a huge difference in the process, everybody there wants to be a soccer player, so they go and try out, and the people that get to pick talent have a lot to pick from. That's something that will take time in the US, but it works a bit different now (they pick from college teams, or soccer little leagues, which there are quite a few, especially in areas like Florida, etc). But with the league expanding, having more teams and fans, you'll get that other system eventually set up, with kids growing up watching their home team that want to play for it.

And as much as team sport soccer is, you get a generational talent kind of guy (and it doesn't to be a Pele, Maradona or Messi), you then have a good foundation to put a team around. Most soccer teams really only have one or two stars and a bunch of utilitarian players. In that sense, it's not that much different from the NBA. And as Argentina has seen in the past 10 years or so, even having that kind of star doesn't guarantee silverware, but it does make for a top 3 team.

So I don't disagree the US is far, but it's traveling the right path. At least you're much further in that path than you were 10-15 years ago. It's still going to take some more time, but I can see where this is going, it's not bad if you're basically starting from scratch (which really is what you guys did after flirting with this thing back in the 50's).

As Apa said, the academy system is pretty well known. I was reading an article about it a bit ago, and these kids are scouted as young as 8 years old:


The first time I visited De Toekomst happened to coincide with the arrival of 21 new players — 7- and 8-year-olds, mainly, all from Amsterdam and its vicinity — who were spotted by scouts and identified as possible future professionals.

And unlike in baseball vs. the Dominican, we can't just brute force our way to being a power through population size and raw talent, since Germany (80 million), Brazil (200 million), Spain (50 million), and a host of other soccer countries are structuring their programs the same way.

[apalisoc_9]

Even if we concede the academy argument, there is no denying that soccer nations develop their kids at a much faster rate becuase its not frowned upon to do so.

I mean Ajax has a huge academy...Imagine doing something like that in the US...that would never happen.

And again, these Pro teams have junior clubs where 14-16 year olds play. Sure you have to try out, but that shit wont fly in the US...

[apalisoc_9]

Imagine The spurs having a junior equivalent or a B team shit where 16 years olds can play...from 16 to 17..you can improve a lot.

Funes mori would have never had the opportunity to improve his game the way he improved had he stayed and waited for a draft and play in the MLS...

[ElNono]

As Apa said, the academy system is pretty well known. I was reading an article about it a bit ago, and these kids are scouted as young as 8 years old:

Just what I was telling Apa, those "academies" are rare though. Even in Europe. And frankly, how good they are is certainly debatable. I'm sure there's some players that ended up making it, but IMO it's more of a system to hoard potential young players at an early age. But it's really more of a Euro thing. La Masia is probably the most famous, obviously, due to the generation of Barcelona players that ended up coming from there.


And unlike in baseball vs. the Dominican, we can't just brute force our way to being a power through population size and raw talent, since Germany (80 million), Brazil (200 million), Spain (50 million), and a host of other soccer countries are structuring their programs the same way.

You can't brute force your way to being a power, period. You can only build towards that. You don't need academies for that though. You need a solid league, better scouting of what you have in the country itself, and obviously a growing fanbase.

I actually hated to see a lot of very old players retiring here in the US (ie: Beckham). That kind of stuff doesn't really help or grow US soccer, it's just a money grab. But now the league is bringing some of those talented guys a little younger, and that's nicer to build the fanbase. I really like how, for example, Portland has embraced their soccer team. That helps.

[apalisoc_9]

As Apa said, the academy system is pretty well known. I was reading an article about it a bit ago, and these kids are scouted as young as 8 years old:



And unlike in baseball vs. the Dominican, we can't just brute force our way to being a power through population size and raw talent, since Germany (80 million), Brazil (200 million), Spain (50 million), and a host of other soccer countries are structuring their programs the same way.

Amsterdam have the biggest academies...Part of the reason why the dutch always have talent.

[ElNono]

Even if we concede the academy argument, there is no denying that soccer nations develop their kids at a much faster rate becuase its not frowned upon to do so.

I mean Ajax has a huge academy...Imagine doing something like that in the US...that would never happen.

And again, these Pro teams have junior clubs where 14-16 year olds play. Sure you have to try out, but that shit wont fly in the US...

No doubt that the process is different there, kids wanting to play for their teams, eventually becoming pros at it. For that to happen in the US, they need a stronger league and fanbase. I think it's slowly happening.

And honestly, I didn't think it was going to work out 4-5 years ago... I thought the MLS was just another money-grab fad, but they're now expanding, and I think that while they're baby steps, it's going in the right direction.

[ElNono]

Amsterdam have the biggest academies...Part of the reason why the dutch always have talent.

But the dutch never win anything though. Netherlands is not even a top 10 team (at least according to FIFA's ranking), and at the club level, I don't think they've won anything in a while.

Now, I'm not shitting on academies, but it's also not a surefire system either. Structurally speaking, the concept of academies in poor countries like South America is damn near impossible to pull off. But they still manage to get stacked. (Not just Brazil or Argentina, but also Chile, Colombia, etc).

[midnightpulp]

Even if we concede the academy argument, there is no denying that soccer nations develop their kids at a much faster rate becuase its not frowned upon to do so.

I mean Ajax has a huge academy...Imagine doing something like that in the US...that would never happen.

And again, these Pro teams have junior clubs where 14-16 year olds play. Sure you have to try out, but that shit wont fly in the US...

Yep. And also, American kids growing up won't stand for just playing one sport (unless forced to by an insane parent). A typical US kid will grow up playing soccer, baseball, basketball, touch (or if a parent allows, tackle) football, and in the colder states, hockey might be added to that list. Golf and tennis might also be played. And during recess, they'll play a different sport everyday. I remember growing up, we'd play basketball this day, baseball that day, soccer this day, football that day.

A US athlete won't choose a specific sport until later in highschool, in most cases. Tennis is probably the one sport where the US had a soccer style academy system that identified young prodigies early and trained them like pros (i.e. Nick Bollettieri's academy), and these players then turned pro as young as 15, like Michael Chang and Pete Sampras.

In a soccer countries, it's 24/7 soccer.

[ElNono]

Anyways, gotta get some rest... I thought 'Murica missed their three suspended players, tbh, but when you look at their participation in the cup overall, they're the only concacaf team that made the top 4. That's not too shabby.

[midnightpulp]

But the dutch never win anything though. Netherlands is not even a top 10 team (at least according to FIFA's ranking), and at the club level, I don't think they've won anything in a while.

Now, I'm not shitting on academies, but it's also not a surefire system either. Structurally speaking, the concept of academies in poor countries like South America is damn near impossible to pull off. But they still manage to get stacked. (Not just Brazil or Argentina, but also Chile, Colombia, etc).

They were a couple of chokes away from winning a couple World Cups, though. Most of these soccer crazed countries would kill to be that close.

[ElNono]

They were a couple of chokes away from winning a couple World Cups, though. Most of these soccer crazed countries would kill to be that close.

The dutch had terrific talent like Cryuff before this whole "academies" concept came around though. They have a good history as a soccer nation, that unfortunately ended up coming up short a few times.

I don't hate the "academy" concept, I just think it's demonstrably true that it's just one way of many to do things.

[midnightpulp]

The dutch had terrific talent like Cryuff before this whole "academies" concept came around though. They have a good history as a soccer nation, that unfortunately ended up coming up short a few times.

I don't hate the "academy" concept, I just think it's demonstrably true that it's just one way of many to do things.

I would assume that the academy thing probably came en vogue after Cryuff retired. Fun fact, he was also a damn good baseball player, so he played other sports.

I actually hate it in the sense that it kills the romanticism of the kid in his driveway, alone, no insane parents or dominating coaches around, just obsessively shooting jumpers till dusk. Or the kid in a Sao Paulo ghetto, mastering soccer on some local dirt field.

I do realize that isn't the "right way" to develop youth skills, but it might be the "right way" morally speaking.

But it's obviously a necessary evil now. The driveway kid won't be able to compete with the academy kid, even if the driveway kid has more natural ability and work ethic.

[diego]

Bunch of excuses. One, foreign kids play other sports too, tons and tons of examples of that. Two, US kids school programs are already academies! Just a quick search turned this up, I remember reading an article about this nearly a decade ago:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/basketball/2061269-why-do-so-many-top-hs.html

http://www.nj.com/hssports/blog/boysbasketball/index.ssf/2013/07/staying_back_to_get_ahead_high_school_basketball_p layers_are_staying_back_in_middle_school_to_get_an .html

And you see in the news in the US stories about kids in elementary school being groomed for x y z league.

When I went to school in the US 20+ years ago half my classmates on the football team were given protein shakes and supplements in 9th grade, by the time they came out they doubled their mass. "but us parents wouldn't stand for it!"

Also, as nono said it's not just a matter of drills and athleticism. A lot of it is skill and smarts, and that comes from cultural tradition. You know probably the main reason the US doesn't have a great chance to become better at soccer, is the same reason they are losing their advantage in baseball, basketball, etc etc- kids nowadays spend more time inside than they do playing sports outside, and the ones that do have less kids to play with/against. That, and the "everybody's a winner!" mentality.

[Killakobe81]

You're right. The Argentine ladies are straight fire. Save some of that grass fed beef then raze the fucker down. Rinse, repeat, for Brazil and Peru (Peruvian women are straight atomic fire). Then make the whole Central America/South America our southern agriculture hub. 'MURICA!

Brazil, argentina, ecuador, lots of fine women in America, South

[lefty]

:lol Muricans should stick with stickball tbh

[midnightpulp]

Bunch of excuses. One, foreign kids play other sports too, tons and tons of examples of that. Two, US kids school programs are already academies! Just a quick search turned this up, I remember reading an article about this nearly a decade ago:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/basketball/2061269-why-do-so-many-top-hs.html

http://www.nj.com/hssports/blog/boysbasketball/index.ssf/2013/07/staying_back_to_get_ahead_high_school_basketball_p layers_are_staying_back_in_middle_school_to_get_an .html

And you see in the news in the US stories about kids in elementary school being groomed for x y z league.

When I went to school in the US 20+ years ago half my classmates on the football team were given protein shakes and supplements in 9th grade, by the time they came out they doubled their mass. "but us parents wouldn't stand for it!"

Also, as nono said it's not just a matter of drills and athleticism. A lot of it is skill and smarts, and that comes from cultural tradition. You know probably the main reason the US doesn't have a great chance to become better at soccer, is the same reason they are losing their advantage in baseball, basketball, etc etc- kids nowadays spend more time inside than they do playing sports outside, and the ones that do have less kids to play with/against. That, and the "everybody's a winner!" mentality.

:lol If you think our soccer academy system is anywhere near as cutting edge or as strict as countries who've been doing it for decades. Furthermore, the links you posted are from high school programs. We're talking about 6-8 year olds being forced into an academy by a helicopter parent because their child showed some talent or a manipulative "scout" told them to do so.

As to the bolded, that's fine. A 9th grader can make more informed decisions than a 6 year old.

And if you went to school in Texas, they do employ a soccer country type of mentality toward their youth when it comes to football. Watch Friday Night Tykes on Netflix, and see how insane Texas parents are when it comes to the sport.

[The Gemini Method]

:lol Muricans should stick with stickball tbh I'd say you should stick to hockey, but you can't even win your sport's title. LOL Le Crabs.

[The Gemini Method]

If Peruvian women are as good as their food , atomic is a great word to describe. They are. I dated a Lebanese-Peruvian chick for a while after college. When we went over to Lima, I was like wow. Like you said, the food is atomic fire, and the eye candy was non-stop. You can't but admire the ladies. So friendly, too.

[Relevancy]

If Americans are so competitive why don't they work on the sport they aren't good at(soccer) and dominated like they do in other sports? The whole "well we don't really care about soccer" shtick is just an easy scape route many Americans use.

You can't be good at everything lel

[The Gemini Method]

If Americans are so competitive why don't they work on the sport they aren't good at(soccer) and dominated like they do in other sports? The whole "well we don't really care about soccer" shtick is just an easy scape route many Americans use.

You can't be good at everything lel That's only true for half of the equation. The Women's side is dominant. What? 3-time WC winning side? You can't ignore the American dichotomy of being good but also wanting to be good at the sports that pay you the most $$$. So Football, Basketball, and Baseball are going to get the most of our best athletes because, well, the moolah will be there. So our focal point is in those areas. I think we have enough people caring about the sport. You can go to pretty much any elementary school or local park during the Spring/Summer months and you'll see AYSO or club soccer teams playing games on a regular.

[leemajors]

If Americans are so competitive why don't they work on the sport they aren't good at(soccer) and dominated like they do in other sports? The whole "well we don't really care about soccer" shtick is just an easy scape route many Americans use.

You can't be good at everything lel

Soccer, at least in TX, is something you play in elementary school then move on to other sports, namely football. We had soccer teams in high school, but everything is about high school football here.

[The Gemini Method]

Soccer, at least in TX, is something you play in elementary school then move on to other sports, namely football. We had soccer teams in high school, but everything is about high school football here. Pretty much the same thing here in CA. Although, basketball and baseball are pretty well played here in the Southern California region. Football is king on the west coast.

[lefty]

I'd say you should stick to hockey, but you can't even win your sport's title. LOL Le Crabs.

:lol hockey
:lol puckball
:lol ehball
:lol maplesyrupball
:lol mountedpoliceball

[whitemamba]

They are. I dated a Lebanese-Peruvian chick for a while after college. When we went over to Lima, I was like wow. Like you said, the food is atomic fire, and the eye candy was non-stop. You can't but admire the ladies. So friendly, too.

Going to make my way down soon enough.

[Relevancy]

That's only true for half of the equation. The Women's side is dominant. What? 3-time WC winning side? You can't ignore the American dichotomy of being good but also wanting to be good at the sports that pay you the most $$$. So Football, Basketball, and Baseball are going to get the most of our best athletes because, well, the moolah will be there. So our focal point is in those areas. I think we have enough people caring about the sport. You can go to pretty much any elementary school or local park during the Spring/Summer months and you'll see AYSO or club soccer teams playing games on a regular.I'm just saying Americans often love to gloat about their competetive nature.. If Americans weren't so cocky and downplayed soccer so much just because they aren't good at it I wouldn't have a problem respecting your process to becoming good at soccer tbh

[leemajors]

I'm just saying Americans often love to gloat about their competetive nature.. If Americans weren't so cocky and downplayed soccer so much just because they aren't good at it I wouldn't have a problem respecting your process to becoming good at soccer tbh

it's barely even on tv here tbh, most people do not care.

[Relevancy]

Soccer, at least in TX, is something you play in elementary school then move on to other sports, namely football. We had soccer teams in high school, but everything is about high school football here.Soccer isn't treated seriously here, that's the problem.. Until it is the usa will continue to struggle

[Relevancy]

it's barely even on tv here tbh, most people do not care.Well I guess the USA will continue to suck and americans will keep on downplaying the sport itself:lol

[The Gemini Method]

I like soccer/futbol. It's just that I don't know all that much about the sport. I follow the Galaxy and the European leagues, but I think its a cultural thing. Also, not all Americans gloat. It's the insecure bros that do. They're the scourge of our people.

[DMX7]

Well I guess the USA will continue to suck and americans will keep on downplaying the sport itself:lol

Well... The USA women are #1.

[diego]

The women are actually the perfect example, in other countries women don't have a soccer culture, only in the past 10-15 years have I met women that play soccer in South America. Women sports at least in Argentina / chile are tennis, volleyball, field hockey, roller skating, roller hockey, to a much lesser extent basketball and that's about it, hence they suck at soccer. Has nothing to do with athletic ability or money.