Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[BillMc]

He's proven me wrong and I admit it.

[ezau]

Looks like the Spurs have a very, very good PG in the next five years. Just imagine when the game slows down for DJ.

[DAF86]

Looks like the Spurs have a very, very good PG in the next five years. Just imagine when the game slows down for DJ.

It already has. He looks like a full blown veteran this year compared to last.

[MultiTroll]

His ceiling of Prime Kwa Lite continues imo.

Another year removed from injury, pumping iron, overcoming Grandpas misdirection and DJ will get there.

[rankingtear]

Zach Lowe 10 Things


7. Dejounte Murray (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497/dejounte-murray), puffing out his chestMurray's improvement doesn't leap off the page as a capital-B "breakout," but something is happening. Look at this dude:
That right-to-left crossover dusts suckers every night. Murray leaves poor Luguentz Dort (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4397020/luguentz-dort) somewhere near Tulsa. Murray looks different: at ease, in control, confident he belongs at the head of the snake. He's posting career highs across the board, and dipping his toe into medium-volume 3-point shooting: 33% on almost 3.5 attempts per game, with fewer coming from the corners.
He has hit 45% on long 2s, though he's perhaps too dependent on that shot. Murray is not getting to the rim as much, and has drawn shooting fouls on only 1.2% of his pick-and-rolls -- 99th among 115 players who have run at least 200 such plays, per Second Spectrum. The happy flip side: Murray has the eighth-lowest turnover rate among that group.
Murray's improved jumper gives Gregg Popovich more flexibility trying combinations of his young core. Murray's defense is back where it was when he made All-Defensive second team in 2017-18. His arms are a menace to society.
Murray is the furthest along of San Antonio's key young guys: Murray, Derrick White (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3078576/derrick-white), Keldon Johnson (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395723/keldon-johnson), Devin Vassell (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395630/devin-vassell), Jakob Poeltl (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3134908/jakob-poeltl), and Lonnie Walker IV (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4277890/lonnie-walker-iv). (Is it too soon to include Luka Samanic (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4423309/luka-samanic)?) Does he have the best chance among them at cracking an All-Star team or two?

[John B]

It was a fluke lost last night with too many turnovers in the 3rd, dribbling into 3-4 people in the paint, like OKC was daring Spurs to shoot from outside. Pop should’ve countered with Patty shooting outside.

[RC_Drunkford]

Zach Lowe 10 Things

working on his 3-point shot and drawing fouls is next for DJ to up his game further

[Seventyniner]

working on his 3-point shot and drawing fouls is next for DJ to up his game further

Especially the threes imo. Cutting down on the turnovers was a must and he went out and did it. If he can have similar success with other parts of his game, the sky is the limit.

[ace3g]

CPHM3F-HQVJ


All These Ups And Downs Are All Apart Of The Journey. These L’s Are All LESSONS And Never Losses And I’m Just Excited For What’s To Come. Thank God For Allowing Me To Make It Through A Full Season Healthy With No Setbacks Heading Into A Monster Off Season Where I Will Take My Game To A Big Time LEVEL And I Can’t Wait To Come Back Next Season Bigger And Better In All Aspects Of My Game. Thank You To All Spurs Fans And Fans In General Who Believes In Me And Want To See Nothing Less Than Greatness From Me!!!! 💯🙏🏽 #DM5 (https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/dm5/)🖤 🔛🔝🔜

[The Truth #6]

He's definitely improving. The last few weeks he made a better effort to distribute, such as finding Jak in the paint, which I don't remember him doing much even earlier in the year. But it's still fairly mechanical. And to be honest, I still don't think his current role is his best role. But I do think he can be the leader of the team, but that doesn't mean he has to be the lead ball handler.

[Dejounte]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/facepalm.gif

[SpursDynasty85]

CPHM3F-HQVJ


sounds like he knows these vets are not gonna be in his way next year. We hope...

[SAGirl]

I am excited for DJ. I thought he improved this year and while his shot wasn’t falling, he competed the hardest of anyone on the Spurs in the last game.

Still has to work on his 3 pt shot. Come back aggressive with it. I wish him well. Do that: focus on your 3.

[John B]

- getting more consistent in his 3pts shots
- finishing stronger in the basket with contacts, and earning trips to the FT. If this means adding more muscles
- ball handling has improved a lot, but nothing wrong with getting better
- crossover midrange is already money, floater works. Add more to his offensive repertoire. I think Pop had Kawhi watched Kobe films

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I’m proud he proved me and a lot of others wrong about his game. Dude played great this season and I hope he keeps grinding and gets better.

I think him and White will be a solid back court for years to come if they can stay healthy. They are the least of our teams problems. Shoot, they are one of the few strengths we have currently going into the off season

[John B]

I’m proud he proved me and a lot of others wrong about his game. Dude played great this season and I hope he keeps grinding and gets better.

I think him and White will be a solid back court for years to come if they can stay healthy. They are the least of our teams problems. Shoot, they are one of the few strengths we have currently going into the off season

Not the right forum, but I think Lonnie should start over White. Lonnie has the potential to be a high scoring guy given a chance, especially if Demar is not coming back.

[rjv]

Not the right forum, but I think Lonnie should start over White. Lonnie has the potential to be a high scoring guy given a chance, especially if Demar is not coming back.

i like lonnie but i personally wouldn't start him over white. i'd much rather see white and murray paired up. that's a solid defensive backcourt.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Not the right forum, but I think Lonnie should start over White. Lonnie has the potential to be a high scoring guy given a chance, especially if Demar is not coming back.

while in theory I agree that Lonnie and DJ would be a really good fit and it might even help White and the bench with him running that unit.......

the reality is White is the better overall player between himself and Lonnie. I hope Lonnie shows out next season because he was the guy I’ve really been the loudest about having the best potential out of our young guys to be a star. He has got to be more aggressive and study more film of how to be better off ball on offense and defense.

[GAustex]

Talk is talk

[John B]

while in theory I agree that Lonnie and DJ would be a really good fit and it might even help White and the bench with him running that unit.......

the reality is White is the better overall player between himself and Lonnie. I hope Lonnie shows out next season because he was the guy I’ve really been the loudest about having the best potential out of our young guys to be a star. He has got to be more aggressive and study more film of how to be better off ball on offense and defense.

True. But as a SG, Lonnie has the higher 3pt percentage, and better explosiveness to the basket. Lonnie just needs that scoring responsibility, and he'll take off. Lonnie is a Star if he can tap his potential.

[TD 21]

I’m proud he proved me and a lot of others wrong about his game. Dude played great this season and I hope he keeps grinding and gets better.

I think him and White will be a solid back court for years to come if they can stay healthy. They are the least of our teams problems. Shoot, they are one of the few strengths we have currently going into the off season

Solid isn't enough, you need spectacular to even have a roadmap to relevancy.

A projected Murray-White led offense next season will be a serious candidate for worst in the league.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Solid isn't enough, you need spectacular to even have a roadmap to relevancy.

A projected Murray-White led offense next season will be a serious candidate for worst in the league.

:toast

[DesignatedT]

Spurs need to S&T DeRozan and attach Murray for a top 5 pick.

[Dejounte]

Spurs need to S&T DeRozan and attach Murray for a top 5 pick.

That's hilarious you think anyone would do that deal.

[DesignatedT]

That's hilarious you think anyone would do that deal.

Top 10?

[exstatic]

Spurs need to S&T DeRozan and attach Murray for a top 5 pick.

No one is trading out of the top 5 for that.

[KobesAchilles]

No one is trading out of the top 5 for that.
Not even in 2k :lol

[exstatic]

The only way we’re getting into the top 5 is if ping pong balls lift us into the top 4.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1419107815801692161?s=20

The pull-up 3s are very encouraging regardless of setting...Looks very comfortable getting into that shot.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1419107815801692161?s=20

The pull-up 3s are very encouraging regardless of setting...Looks very comfortable getting into that shot.

Including the one where DJM got picked :lol

[Dejounte]

CRzkQuytc1c

Spurs gonna showcase DJ on social media and then trade him a couple days later? Ehhh…

[rankingtear]

1420002805616717824

[John B]

San Antonio Spurs guard Dejounte Murray was nominated for Western Conference Player of the Week.

[Dejounte]

If Murray had pulled off the fast break after he picked the ball from Chris Paul, that would have been his “Kawhi swiping the ball from Westbrook” moment. Would have to wait for another game, I guess. Momentum swing there would have been huge.


https://youtu.be/OPeWt2jqVck

some of these passes…:eyebrows

[B1gduff]

Thank Goodness we didn't listen to the professionals hear and trade him for a top 5...He's playing like a top 5 pick!

If we can develop or get another secondary elite scorer to pair with Dejounte, and Dejounte keeps on working and improving, while getting to the free throw line more and making them, he could be a 20+ scorere in the league, and 1b option. He's already showing the ability to take over in late games, next he just needs to someone to help carry his load.

[John B]

He’s near triple-double average will be like Westbrook but with the win. Easily Most Improved Player if he continues and a nod to the AS.

[TDomination]

Murray should be getting All Star attention.
He's an all around player.
He can score, assist, rebound and defend all while taking care of the ball.

[KingKev]

Thank Goodness we didn't listen to the professionals hear and trade him for a top 5...He's playing like a top 5 pick!

If we can develop or get another secondary elite scorer to pair with Dejounte, and Dejounte keeps on working and improving, while getting to the free throw line more and making them, he could be a 20+ scorere in the league, and 1b option. He's already showing the ability to take over in late games, next he just needs to someone to help carry his load.

There are still ppl on this board who just think he is just a stat padder! Would love to see him paired with a high scoring wing who plays the 3/4 and can shoot the 3. Also can we finally retire the term IG Baller?

[John B]

There are still ppl on this board who just think he is just a stat padder! Would love to see him paired with a high scoring wing who plays the 3/4 and can shoot the 3. Also can we finally retire the term IG Baller?

:lol He did that to himself, IG baller. But I’m glad he’s backing it up.

I’ve really been in the trade-Murray for Simmons, also because he turned me off on talking back to Pop last season. But he’s starting to win me back.

[KingKev]

:lol He did that to himself, IG baller. But I’m glad he’s backing it up.

I’ve really been in the trade-Murray for Simmons, also because he turned me off on talking back to Pop last season. But he’s starting to win me back.

Haha Pop probably deserved it.

[John B]

Haha Pop probably deserved it.

Just not the right attitude as the leader. He needs to be the first in line if he expects others to follow. Anyways, he’s been winning me back as of late.

[Seventyniner]

If Murray had pulled off the fast break after he picked the ball from Chris Paul, that would have been his “Kawhi swiping the ball from Westbrook” moment. Would have to wait for another game, I guess. Momentum swing there would have been huge.

I jumped off the couch when he swiped that ball. Then I sat back down after he missed the layup. I completely expected him to finish that play, damn.

[Sugus]

If Murray had pulled off the fast break after he picked the ball from Chris Paul, that would have been his “Kawhi swiping the ball from Westbrook” moment. Would have to wait for another game, I guess. Momentum swing there would have been huge.


https://youtu.be/OPeWt2jqVck

some of these passes…:eyebrows

You weren't lying, his passing really has improved over the off-season. I remain skeptic still, but it's absolutely trending in the right direction. Him getting an All-Star nod would be huge, both for him and the team, even though I don't know if he'll get consideration if the Spurs start losing games again and drift away from .500.

[exstatic]

Murray should be getting All Star attention.
He's an all around player.
He can score, assist, rebound and defend all while taking care of the ball.

You mean other than showing it to CP3 on a 1 on 1 fast break, getting it stripped and knocked off him for a turnover, and a subsequent PHO 3 pointer, a 5 point swing? That kind of taking care of the ball?

[picnroll]

Haven’t followed the Spurs for quite awhile. When did Murray devlop such great handles, they use to terrible?

[picnroll]

Haven’t followed the Spurs for quite awhile. When did Murray devlop such great handles, they use to terrible?

[poopbox]

And people on this site said we should trade him for Simmons

[Dejounte]

You mean other than showing it to CP3 on a 1 on 1 fast break, getting it stripped and knocked off him for a turnover, and a subsequent PHO 3 pointer, a 5 point swing? That kind of taking care of the ball?

This is a special kind of stupid to nitpick on a play where it could have gone either way. Murray made several other plays before this one to allow the Spurs to even get this close. When will y’all’s pride stop you from doubling down all the time?

[buttsR4rebounding]

This is a special kind of stupid to nitpick on a play where it could have gone either way. Murray made several other plays before this one to allow the Spurs to even get this close. When will y’all’s pride stop you from doubling down all the time?

Exstatic loves to hate the Spurs. I am certain that he can list every player's flaws and when those flaws were displayed.

[Seventyniner]

You mean other than showing it to CP3 on a 1 on 1 fast break, getting it stripped and knocked off him for a turnover, and a subsequent PHO 3 pointer, a 5 point swing? That kind of taking care of the ball?

Come on, that's a sample size of one. Murray's TOV% was 10.2% last year (great for a primary ball-handler) and 11.5% this year (still very good). That's down from 22.7% in his rookie year and 16.6%/15.4% the last two seasons.

Hell, Chris Paul himself had 14.0% last year and has 16.2% this year.

[RC_Drunkford]

I always called him baby Westbrook ever since we drafted him. He will be better than Westbrook ever was

[exstatic]

The thing is, White had a steal within the last few games, recognized the defender had the advantage, turned sideways to get the defender on his back, and used the rim to protect his shot, and made the basket. Chris Paul leads the NBA in steals. YOU DO NOT SHOW HIM THE BALL. It was a dumb, cocky low IQ play.

I don’t hate the Spurs or DJ, I just don’t drink the kool aid that he’s great. He isn’t. He puts up counting stats, which apparently pleases the fanboys, but he’s not efficient. His only saving graceis that he doesn’t completely dominate the ball, and plays All D level defense.

Our margin of error between wins and loses is razor thin.

[KingKev]

The thing is, White had a steal within the last few games, recognized the defender had the advantage, turned sideways to get the defender on his back, and used the rim to protect his shot, and made the basket. Chris Paul leads the NBA in steals. YOU DO NOT SHOW HIM THE BALL. It was a dumb, cocky low IQ play.

I don’t hate the Spurs or DJ, I just don’t drink the kool aid that he’s great. He isn’t. He puts up counting stats, which apparently pleases the fanboys, but he’s not efficient. His only saving graceis that he doesn’t completely dominate the ball, and plays All D level defense.

Our margin of error between wins and loses is razor thin.

Caruso leads the league in steals. Put some respekt on Alex Caruso’s name. Chris Paul is up there though. Tied with a fella named Dejounte Murray. He might not be a super star but he does many important things pretty well on both sides of the ball and continues to improve. Derek White appears to have a pretty high BB IQ which is a big reason reason he is in the league but the Derek vs DJ argument needs to be retired.

[CGD]

No one says he’s perfect, but if he’s able to get spurs into play in while keeping this up, I think he gets some MIP buzz.

[RC_Drunkford]

The thing is, White had a steal within the last few games, recognized the defender had the advantage, turned sideways to get the defender on his back, and used the rim to protect his shot, and made the basket. Chris Paul leads the NBA in steals. YOU DO NOT SHOW HIM THE BALL. It was a dumb, cocky low IQ play.

I don’t hate the Spurs or DJ, I just don’t drink the kool aid that he’s great. He isn’t. He puts up counting stats, which apparently pleases the fanboys, but he’s not efficient. His only saving graceis that he doesn’t completely dominate the ball, and plays All D level defense.

Our margin of error between wins and loses is razor thin.

nobody is saying he’s one of the best players in the league, but he’s on the way to become great. One more offseason and he‘ll be a beast if he keeps improving

[MannyIsGod]

The thing is, White had a steal within the last few games, recognized the defender had the advantage, turned sideways to get the defender on his back, and used the rim to protect his shot, and made the basket. Chris Paul leads the NBA in steals. YOU DO NOT SHOW HIM THE BALL. It was a dumb, cocky low IQ play.

I don’t hate the Spurs or DJ, I just don’t drink the kool aid that he’s great. He isn’t. He puts up counting stats, which apparently pleases the fanboys, but he’s not efficient. His only saving graceis that he doesn’t completely dominate the ball, and plays All D level defense.

Our margin of error between wins and loses is razor thin.

lol @ his only saving grace. Dude is a late first round pick who has worked his ass off to be a pretty damn good point guard. Save that "only saving grace" bullshit for players who aren't on his level.

The problem is and always will be that people here thought Parker sucked, so of course here comes DJM who is a pretty damn good guard in his own right but will never be fully appreciated here. DJM could very well go on and have a Kyle Lowery type of career and I won't be surprised. He's never going to lead a team to a championship barring some amazing further leap, but he's more than good enough to be a 2nd or 3rd option if the Spurs can find an actual franchise player.

Only saving grace, FOH.

[XDT76]

The thing is, White had a steal within the last few games, recognized the defender had the advantage, turned sideways to get the defender on his back, and used the rim to protect his shot, and made the basket. Chris Paul leads the NBA in steals. YOU DO NOT SHOW HIM THE BALL. It was a dumb, cocky low IQ play.

I don’t hate the Spurs or DJ, I just don’t drink the kool aid that he’s great. He isn’t. He puts up counting stats, which apparently pleases the fanboys, but he’s not efficient. His only saving graceis that he doesn’t completely dominate the ball, and plays All D level defense.

Our margin of error between wins and loses is razor thin.


I had not been a fan of his until these last 2 season, he has been improving on lots of things that were weakness at the start of his career, handling, playmaking, 3 ptrs he might not have natural basketball talent but he is sure nurturing his basketball skill set to the point that he was in the conversation of MIP candidate for 2 consecutive years. If our every single picks improve as much as him, we will have a very good team in a couple of years.

[XDT76]

Caruso leads the league in steals. Put some respekt on Alex Caruso’s name. Chris Paul is up there though. Tied with a fella named Dejounte Murray. He might not be a super star but he does many important things pretty well on both sides of the ball and continues to improve. Derek White appears to have a pretty high BB IQ which is a big reason reason he is in the league but the Derek vs DJ argument needs to be retired.


If Manu vs Parker argument persist for almost their whole career, ST will not cease to argue on White vs DjM.

[exstatic]

Caruso leads the league in steals. Put some respekt on Alex Caruso’s name. Chris Paul is up there though. Tied with a fella named Dejounte Murray. He might not be a super star but he does many important things pretty well on both sides of the ball and continues to improve. Derek White appears to have a pretty high BB IQ which is a big reason reason he is in the league but the Derek vs DJ argument needs to be retired.

Sean mentioned it before the PHO game telecast. Information is a perishable commodity.

[KingKev]

Sean mentioned it before the PHO game telecast. Information is a perishable commodity.

Haha I was just clowning man. I think you are too hard on DJ is all.

[exstatic]

I had not been a fan of his until these last 2 season, he has been improving on lots of things that were weakness at the start of his career, handling, playmaking, 3 ptrs he might not have natural basketball talent but he is sure nurturing his basketball skill set to the point that he was in the conversation of MIP candidate for 2 consecutive years. If our every single picks improve as much as him, we will have a very good team in a couple of years.

He’s got a lot of basketball talent, he just isn’t a natural PG. He finally can run a pick and roll, but that’s one teammate, moving parallel who just needs a simple bounce pass. Sean is constantly mentioning him missing teammates on the perimeter, and even Fab had the telestrator fired up last night, circling 3 guys open on the arc, as DJ did his best DeRozan impersonation of dribbling around to no purpose, and then jacking up a mid range.

He needs to understand that when we get down double digits, there isn’t a universe where he can put us on his back and score enough to close that gap. When he has the ball, he either needs to go all the way to the cup, or recognize that if he can’t, someone has dropped down, there is a man open, and find that man. Three pointers are how you close that kind of a gap. The mid range game is marginal at the best of times, and a losing proposition when down that much.

[Dejounte]

When a person’a made up their mind about somebody, it’s finished. People need to stop arguing with this guy, it’s a waste of energy. Let him waste his energy for all the years Murray will continue to remain a Spur and he’ll still be here as the old man saying to himself, “That’s not my PG.”

[exstatic]

When a person’a made up their mind about somebody, it’s finished. People need to stop arguing with this guy, it’s a waste of energy. Let him waste his energy for all the years Murray will continue to remain a Spur and he’ll still be here as the old man saying to himself, “That’s not my PG.”

Wait, didn’t you break up with your GF Dejounte a year or two ago, to the point of wanting your username changed?

[XDT76]

He’s got a lot of basketball talent, he just isn’t a natural PG. He finally can run a pick and roll, but that’s one teammate, moving parallel who just needs a simple bounce pass. Sean is constantly mentioning him missing teammates on the perimeter, and even Fab had the telestrator fired up last night, circling 3 guys open on the arc, as DJ did his best DeRozan impersonation of dribbling around to no purpose, and then jacking up a mid range.

He needs to understand that when we get down double digits, there isn’t a universe where he can put us on his back and score enough to close that gap. When he has the ball, he either needs to go all the way to the cup, or recognize that if he can’t, someone has dropped down, there is a man open, and find that man. Three pointers are how you close that kind of a gap. The mid range game is marginal at the best of times, and a losing proposition when down that much.

I do not know what is the skill set requires from a PG is any more he might not be a great playmaker but I do not thumb him down as a PG. For your info the greatest PG of the Spurs in the modern NBA average lesser assist than this seasons DjM in his best season. Do you call him a non natural PG?

[exstatic]

I do not know what is the skill set requires from a PG is any more he might not be a great playmaker but I do not thumb him down as a PG. For your info the greatest PG of the Spurs in the modern NBA average lesser assist than this seasons DjM in his best season. Do you call him a non natural PG?

Again, with the counting stats. APG is no more relevant than PPG. It doesn’t provide context as to pace of the team, or role of the player. Parker had 3 seasons with an AST% over 40. Dejountes 1/4 season this year is 37, and is much higher than his other years, so we’ll have to wait and see what he finishes with.

[Dejounte]

Wait, didn’t you break up with your GF Dejounte a year or two ago, to the point of wanting your username changed?

Miss me with that weak ass high school insult. Didn’t know it was a fucking child I was dealing with.

[KobesAchilles]

Long rant. sorry

Dejounte has really improved this year. The thing is that he started from literally the bottom that all of this improvement still means he has a shit more to go. I mean the dude couldn't dribble the ball and was shooting 15 foot floaters his rookie year. Now he can dribble the ball and has a 15 foot jumper! That's major improvement.

sadly though he still can't really dribble the ball up to the standards of a starting point guard. He has improved to where he is like a C+ for a PG, but he was at like a F- so that shows he has been working on his game. The next step is to be able to consistently get into the paint and keep his dribble alive as he probes around for an opening. It's weird to say bc both Parker and Manu were A+ dribblers. Strickland might've been the best if you want to go that far back and even AJ was a great dribbler that I took dribbling for granted. I really did. Nobody on our team is an A dribbler. It's not even really dejounte's fault but youth all across America are being taught incorrectly. I've seen it where people are focused on teaching the dumbest dribbling skills instead of focusing on what can actually be used in a game. We need that Demathis High School dribbling class.

The thing that people don't quite get for all the DJ needs to get his teammates involved talk is that he had a part of his game completely taken out and it's a big part of the game. Throwing the ball into the post (I know he isn't the best post inbound passer) is such a luxury to have as a guard and when you don't have it then the game becomes alot more tiring. You have to run a lot more, you have to have a lot more responsibility, and the only way to really get your teammates involved is if you yourself make those passes that exstatic is bitching about. Tony Parker didn't have to make those passes ALL the time. He was capable of it for sure. But Manu could make it, Diaw could make it, and Tim could make those passes. Exstatic is mad at that and Sean might be pointing them out, but that's only bc nobody else is going to bee able to make that play/pass.

Dejounte also has improved his lay up technique. He has a nice sneaky lay up that he craftily gets past the big man. It's really just come down to his dribbling thhough. He isn't good enough to know what to do when the lane is crowded. he doesn't have that reliable roll guy to dump the pass to the way Tony did with Tim/Splitter and AJ had with Dave or Strickland with Cummings. When Poeltl is your best option on the dump pass in the paint you are fucked.

I'm not even looking at DJ's shooting percentages this year. I just want him shooting 5+ three balls a game. He could go 0-7 and I would love it. And to his credit he really has upped his 3FGA by a lot. The low free throws though again comes from his poor dribbling skills. Every guard who gets to the line consistently is an advanced dribbler. Curry, Kyrie, Harden, Tre, CP3. But that Derrick White move that exstatic brought up is just kinda learned through time. One day the game slows down and you just kinda know what to do. DJ isn't there yet. But I actually think this isn't his ceiling. I believe I was wrong about the dude.

[KingKev]

Miss me with that weak ass high school insult. Didn’t know it was a fucking child I was dealing with.

Haha I think “miss me, miss me, now you gotta kiss me” would have been a more appropriate rebuttal.

ex what’s it going to take for you to change your tune on admitting DJ is a pretty damn good, near AS level player?

[exstatic]

Miss me with that weak ass high school insult. Didn’t know it was a fucking child I was dealing with.
So, yes then?

[exstatic]

Haha I think “miss me, miss me, now you gotta kiss me” would have been a more appropriate rebuttal.

ex what’s it going to take for you to change your tune on admitting DJ is a pretty damn good, near AS level player?

What’s it going to take for you to understand that I really like him as a player,just not running point?

[KingKev]

What’s it going to take for you to understand that I really like him as a player,just not running point?

I truthfully didn’t know that was your opinion. I don’t follow the back and forth that closely just see you constantly nitpicking at DJ (the player not the poster) without that context. I’d have no problem with DJ playing the off guard position if we brought in a more capable point. He does so much out there that I think he could thrive as a 2 also. The PG spot is pretty low on the areas we need to address however IMO.

[John B]

Tre is your prototypical PG, and plays the PG every time he’s with DJ on the court. DJ is more of a combo.
Likewise the ball goes to Derrick instead to DJ whenever they’re playing together.

[Dejounte]

Tre is your prototypical PG, and plays the PG every time he’s with DJ on the court. DJ is more of a combo.
Likewise the ball goes to Derrick instead to DJ whenever they’re playing together.

“Every time”? “Whenever they’re playing together”? This simply isn’t true. God damn we have a lot of stupid people on this board.

[RC_Drunkford]

6th in Assists
2nd among starting PGs in assist to turnover ratio , only Chris Paul is better
11th among all NBA players in assist to turnover ratio

spurstalkers: b-b-b-but he’s not a PG :lmao

Y‘all dumb as fuck

[exstatic]

6th in Assists
2nd among starting PGs in assist to turnover ratio , only Chris Paul is better
11th among all NBA players in assist to turnover ratio

spurstalkers: b-b-b-but he’s not a PG :lmao

Y‘all dumb as fuck

Counting stats are for Boomers and casuals.

[Dejounte]

Counting stats are for Boomers and casuals.
You’re no good at interpreting advanced statistics so you really have no room to talk.

[rankingtear]

DJ can bend defense creating more advantages than White seeing the open man.

[Dverde]

Not sure what people expect. This is about my best case for him 18 pts, 8 assists, 8 boards. He’s not a top 20 player and will never be one. He’s a good player, but close to a finished product.

[r0drig0lac]

This is about my best case for him 18 pts, 8 assists, 8 boards. just your opinion.


He’s not a top 20 player. agree


He’s not a top 20 player and will never be one. opinion...


but close to a finished product. no one in the world could guarantee that, especially on spurstalk.

[KingKev]

Not sure what people expect. This is about my best case for him 18 pts, 8 assists, 8 boards. He’s not a top 20 player and will never be one. He’s a good player, but close to a finished product.

if his current pace of yearly improvement is any indication I wouldnt be so quick to say he’s close to a finished product. Many areas for improvement remain, work ethic and drive are there and he still hasn’t reached a monster NBA contract. I’d argue there are many reasons to think he continues to hone his game.

[TDomination]

Another triple double for dejounte! Which makes 4 now for the season only behind Harden 4, Westbrook 5, and Jokic 5

[John B]

Another triple double for dejounte! Which makes 4 now for the season only behind Harden 4, Westbrook 5, and Jokic 5

Sell high :lol:lol

[Atl Spur]

Sell high........for real sale!!!

[BatManu20]

1470214476213506050

[Atl Spur]

1470214476213506050

Sell high......Ben has 32

[Maddog]

1470214476213506050

And two of those have Quadruple doubles

[buttsR4rebounding]

And two of those have Quadruple doubles

I could see the stars aligning and DJM getting a quadruple double. I think his current high in steals is 7 in a game.

[rjv]

I could see the stars aligning and DJM getting a quadruple double. I think his current high in steals is 7 in a game.

it can definitely happen, in the same manner that it did for alvin robertson back in the day.

[TDomination]

I could see the stars aligning and DJM getting a quadruple double. I think his current high in steals is 7 in a game.

That would be insane just for the fact that its been almost 30 years since the last one and it was our very own Admiral that got it.

[The Truth #6]

And two of those have Quadruple doubles

I think it should have been three. Tim was supposedly robbed of a qd in a 2003 Finals game, I think.

[exstatic]

I think it should have been three. Tim was supposedly robbed of a qd in a 2003 Finals game, I think.

He came close with 8 blocks, but I think he only got robbed of 1 after Byron Scott cried to the refs, because Tim And David pretty much closed their basket.

[KobesAchilles]

He came close with 8 blocks, but I think he only got robbed of 1 after Byron Scott cried to the refs, because Tim And David pretty much closed their basket.
Nah there's video evidence on Youtube that he got 10 blocks. I think the Spurs scorer table guy was a Laker fan. I'm convinced that they were all Spur haters with how much they sucked during that era. Robbing Duncan of his Quad double and starting the clock super late on the .4 as well. There were other examples too but those two come off the top of my head

[BatManu20]

That would be insane just for the fact that its been almost 30 years since the last one and it was our very own Admiral that got it.

I remember a few years ago when Draymond Green finished a game with double-digit Rebounds, Assists, & Steals, but only 5 Points :lol

He was pissed after the game once someone told him he only needed 5 points to get the Quadruple-Dub.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/nbafantasy/status/1473166509421780993?s= (https://twitter.com/nbafantasy/status/1473166509421780993?s=21)

Dejounte Murray's 6th triple-double ties him for the NBA lead and sets a new spurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1680) single-season record! While it’s still early in the season. He would be getting more if this continues, maybe double or triple that number.

24 PTS
13 AST
12 REB
4 STL
67.9 FPTS

Arguably will get the MIPY and bid for the AS this year!

[rjv]

https://twitter.com/nbafantasy/status/1473166509421780993?s= (https://twitter.com/nbafantasy/status/1473166509421780993?s=21)

Dejounte Murray's 6th triple-double ties him for the NBA lead and sets a new spurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1680) single-season record! While it’s still early in the season. He would be getting more if this continues, maybe double or triple that number.

24 PTS
13 AST
12 REB
4 STL
67.9 FPTS

Arguably will get the MIPY and bid for the AS this year!

DJ will definitely be a candidate but i think the early odd-on favorite has to be miles bridges.

[spurraider21]

he's at 35% from 3 on the season, which from him is fine tbh... meanwhile Lonnie is just below 31% and White is at 27%

[rjv]

i'm just hoping that what we've seen from keldon from the three point line over the last month isn't an anomaly.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

DJ will definitely be a candidate but i think the early odd-on favorite has to be miles bridges.

Miles Bridges and Tyler Hero also a big Most improved player candidate

[BatManu20]

Damn DJ.

1473813668139659264

[CGD]

He’s been a joy to watch this season, and over the trajectory of his career. He and Jakob have been the teams best and consistent players by far.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1474048402719531014

[KingKev]

1474048402719531014

Pretty good company!

[CGD]

1474048402719531014

Damn Joker!

[emanueldavidginobili]

1474267467040100352

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/S47RXZrTlTQ

the pass @ 3:30

so many shots went in and out

[Harry Callahan]

The national media wanted to talk about a "depleted" Lakers squad which actually had to MVP caliber players on the floor (Xibron and Westchunk). Nice win for the good guys.

The Spurs are coming along well - they have played with good effort almost every game this year and the young guys are getting better. It's nice that the real Derrick White is out there again.

DJM is a fine player. He has put in the work and really wants to be great.

[Seventyniner]

the pass @ 3:30

so many shots went in and out

Great find, both by you and the real Dejounte.

Note the backscreen set by Poeltl. The pass wasn't just done on the fly imo.

[poopbox]

Come a long way with being on IG everyday with Jilly :cry

[Sugus]

Great find, both by you and the real Dejounte.

Note the backscreen set by Poeltl. The pass wasn't just done on the fly imo.

Jakob does so many little things, it's insane. He gets called for illegal screens sometimes which sucks, but he's great at creating space for other players by just setting a back pick, or even standing there sometimes. It's why I think the "oh he doesn't shoot 3's, just clogs the lane!!" argument is total BS. At least the stats are unbiased about impact, and show his true worth.

Still an excellent pass by DJ though, obviously; space is worthless if you can't use it correctly.

[exstatic]

Jakob does so many little things, it's insane. He gets called for illegal screens sometimes which sucks, but he's great at creating space for other players by just setting a back pick, or even standing there sometimes. It's why I think the "oh he doesn't shoot 3's, just clogs the lane!!" argument is total BS. At least the stats are unbiased about impact, and show his true worth.

Still an excellent pass by DJ though, obviously; space is worthless if you can't use it correctly.

Love Jakob but for one thing: as poor a FT shooter as he is, he needs to DUNK EVERY TIME IT’S POSSIBLE TO DO SO.

[Atl Spur]

Love Jakob but for one thing: as poor a FT shooter as he is, he needs to DUNK EVERY TIME IT’S POSSIBLE TO DO SO.

I agree! I also noticed demeanor was way too “accommodating”; he could dominate people if he toughens up!

[Sugus]

Love Jakob but for one thing: as poor a FT shooter as he is, he needs to DUNK EVERY TIME IT’S POSSIBLE TO DO SO.

For sure. Would love to be a SA resident, so I could catch some Spurs games and try to yell this at him. He'd never hear the end of it if I got to seat near the bench...

[Seventyniner]

Jakob does so many little things, it's insane. He gets called for illegal screens sometimes which sucks, but he's great at creating space for other players by just setting a back pick, or even standing there sometimes. It's why I think the "oh he doesn't shoot 3's, just clogs the lane!!" argument is total BS. At least the stats are unbiased about impact, and show his true worth.

Still an excellent pass by DJ though, obviously; space is worthless if you can't use it correctly.

Yeah, I didn't mean to take anything away from Dejounte there. If anything, his recognition of Poeltl's backscreen speaks even more to his court vision and dedication in off-the-court work.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/kevinoconnornba/status/1474952818599600137?s=21

It’s time to retire the WB comparisons

[K...]

Tank crew with the win,

"Spurs‘ Dejounte Murray has entered health and safety protocols and is listed out vs. Pistons." Via shams

[exstatic]

Tank crew with the win,

"Spurs‘ Dejounte Murray has entered health and safety protocols and is listed out vs. Pistons." Via shams

Damn.

Note, he’s only the second Spurs player, along with Jakob, to be on HASP.

[daslicer]

Tank crew with the win,

"Spurs‘ Dejounte Murray has entered health and safety protocols and is listed out vs. Pistons." Via shams

That stops any potential the Spurs have from making a run towards the playoffs.

[XDT76]

Damn.

Note, he’s only the second Spurs player, along with Jakob, to be on HASP.

Is Landale not a Spurs player?

[8sy21vd]

Definitely worthy of AS consideration especially if the Spurs can move into the top 8 before the break. Hopefully he comes back sooner than later from COVID protocols.

[Dverde]

10658303 (tel:10658303)[/URL]]That stops any potential the Spurs have from making a run towards the playoffs.

Spurs still very capable if White and Lonnie Walker play well. Other teams also have withheld players.

[exstatic]

Spurs still very capable if White and Lonnie Walker play well. Other teams also have withheld players.

White is a better PG than DJ. Devin and Primo will step in as needed. Primo should be up for at least the next two games, maybe more.

[DAF86]

1474048402719531014

Damn Jokic. Too bad he won't get b2b MVPs because of how much his teammates suck.

[Sugus]

Damn Jokic. Too bad he won't get b2b MVPs because of how much his teammates suck.

He's literally Messi. Luckily for Messi he had the teammates and good team/FO to earn the trophies he deserved.

[emanueldavidginobili]

It’s official now.
1475575903958802432

[John B]

It’s official now.
1475575903958802432

:bobo

[emanueldavidginobili]

Seriously what is this kids ceiling? Also who would you compare him to if you could? He’s becoming elite on both sides of the ball. Also his BBIQ has improved exponentially. Literally just turned 25, this kid might get his jersey retired, get him some help!

[DAF86]

I don't give a fuck about triple doubles, they are overrated and pretty much a non-factor on today's NBA. Specially on PGs that cheat to get cheap rebounds like DJ does.

I need Murray to start being more efficiently offensively or else he will end up a poor man's Russell Westbrook. At least on offense. On defense he's already miles better.

[John B]

I don't give a fuck about triple doubles, they are overrated and pretty much a non-factor on today's NBA. Specially on PGs that cheat to get cheap rebounds like DJ does.

I need Murray to start being more efficiently offensively or else he will end up a poor man's Russell Westbrook. At least on offense. On defenses s he's already miles shots and could be that guy. better.

When Magic was logging in triple doubles, the Lakers were at the top of their game. Magic was rim running, distributing, and scoring. I’m not saying DJM is anything close to Magic, but if he plays this way, it’s infectious for the rest of the team to also get better. Ideally DJM needs a Robin who can take the offensive pressure off him, and consistently score even more than DJM. Devin is a natural scorer with his sweet shots and could be that guy.

[r0drig0lac]

I remember the idiots here who suggested the kid had no work ethic, from the amount of posts on HIS instagram, old times, at least a few of us have been since day one in the movement.

[KingKev]

I don't give a fuck about triple doubles, they are overrated and pretty much a non-factor on today's NBA. Specially on PGs that cheat to get cheap rebounds like DJ does.

I need Murray to start being more efficiently offensively or else he will end up a poor man's Russell Westbrook. At least on offense. On defense he's already miles better.

I hate cheaters that cheat to get rebounds! Cheater, cheater pumpkin eaters!

[MannyIsGod]

Djm does not go after cheap rebounds. That's just wrong. Does he get open rebounds? Of course, every player does occasionally. But we don't put djm on the lane for rebounds during free throws and then make his teammates get out of the way. Acting like djms rebounding numbers are artificially inflated is ridiculous.

It's amazing the lengths people will go to not give this kid props. Poor mama Westbrook? How stupid are people that they think thats what this kid is (or that being compared to Westbrook is even a bad thing).

[exstatic]

Djm does not go after cheap rebounds. That's just wrong. Does he get open rebounds? Of course, every player does occasionally. But we don't put djm on the lane for rebounds during free throws and then make his teammates get out of the way. Acting like djms rebounding numbers are artificially inflated is ridiculous.

It's amazing the lengths people will go to not give this kid props. Poor mama Westbrook? How stupid are people that they think thats what this kid is (or that being compared to Westbrook is even a bad thing).

Agreed. DJ has been an elite rebounder since he was a rookie. It was literally his first, and at the time ONLY NBA skill.

[KingKev]

Djm does not go after cheap rebounds. That's just wrong. Does he get open rebounds? Of course, every player does occasionally. But we don't put djm on the lane for rebounds during free throws and then make his teammates get out of the way. Acting like djms rebounding numbers are artificially inflated is ridiculous.

It's amazing the lengths people will go to not give this kid props. Poor mama Westbrook? How stupid are people that they think thats what this kid is (or that being compared to Westbrook is even a bad thing).

It’s not even constructive criticism from the haters. It’s just foolishness….

He cheats to get rebounds! He only passes the ball to get assists! He opens his eyes during marco polo… CHEATER STAT PADDER! IG Baller.

[XDT76]

It’s not even constructive criticism from the haters. It’s just foolishness….

He cheats to get rebounds! He only passes the ball to get assists! He opens his eyes during marco polo… CHEATER STAT PADDER! IG Baller.

He also shoots just to get points and play defense just to get steals and deflections, get on the floor just to get mins and compete just to get win.

[Dejounte]

It’s not even constructive criticism from the haters. It’s just foolishness….

He cheats to get rebounds! He only passes the ball to get assists! He opens his eyes during marco polo… CHEATER STAT PADDER! IG Baller.

The whole Westbrook comparison reeks of laziness and poor knowledge of basketball overall. WB is a bowling ball with no brains while DJ picks his spots. They’re nothing alike stylistically. But let these fools wank over FG% and think that’s the only way to compare players.

[KingKev]

The whole Westbrook comparison reeks of laziness and poor knowledge of basketball overall. WB is a bowling ball with no brains while DJ picks his spots. They’re nothing alike stylistically. But let these fools wank over FG% and think that’s the only way to compare players.

Not to mention Russ’ D is horrible.

[KingKev]

The whole Westbrook comparison reeks of laziness and poor knowledge of basketball overall. WB is a bowling ball with no brains while DJ picks his spots. They’re nothing alike stylistically. But let these fools wank over FG% and think that’s the only way to compare players.

Not to mention Russ’ D is horrible despite a considerable athletic advantage.

[MannyIsGod]

The whole Westbrook comparison reeks of laziness and poor knowledge of basketball overall. WB is a bowling ball with no brains while DJ picks his spots. They’re nothing alike stylistically. But let these fools wank over FG% and think that’s the only way to compare players.

It's the triple doubles. That's it. Lazy af.

[RC_Drunkford]

there really is nobody that you can compare DJ to. The scary thing is he can be even better by just shooting better percentages and getting to the line more often.

[acoelho1]

He plays nothing like Westbrook and makes far better decisions with the ball and I’m not seeing where he’s chasing stats at all. He’s also 2 years away from his prime and it’s looking more like he can reach that all NBA level. As I said from early on in his career that he has the toughness you see in the elite star players but his game wasn’t mature enough to play at that level. Nevertheless, he has made incredible strides from shooting, play making and leadership. Sky is the limit for his ceiling.

[KingKev]

I can’t believe he passed the ball between his legs. Just a selfish stat padder looking to make sports center. IG baller.

okay now back to reality…

He is making everyone around him better. Not all NBA players, not seasoned vets, but pretty average NBA players are better playing with him. Surround DJ with a better supporting cast and you are on your way to something special.

Can you imagine DJ with a rim runner (Mo Bamba could be had cheap) and a sharp shooter ala Buddy Hield. That is low hanging fruit if we can score big in the next few lotteries.

[KobesAchilles]

Murray plays way better defense than Westbrook ever did. So that's a plus for him. That being said though, he can improve still and that is the scary part. If hiss handles get tighter, if he develops a go to move, if he learns the offense better. These are all things that he could improve on and if he does then he would be a top 5 PG in the league

[rjv]

It’s not even constructive criticism from the haters. It’s just foolishness….

He cheats to get rebounds! He only passes the ball to get assists! He opens his eyes during marco polo… CHEATER STAT PADDER! IG Baller.

:bobo

[KingKev]

Murray plays way better defense than Westbrook ever did. So that's a plus for him. That being said though, he can improve still and that is the scary part. If hiss handles get tighter, if he develops a go to move, if he learns the offense better. These are all things that he could improve on and if he does then he would be a top 5 PG in the league

Steph
Luka
Dame
Irving
Trae
Ja
CP3
DJ

Most of those guys are average to bad defenders. DJ can get to the rack and finish at will but is still balancing calling his own name with team basketball. If he can improve his 3ball, he will be top 5 no doubt. We have an all NBA player in the coming years and I’m confident in that.

[KobesAchilles]

Steph
Luka
Dame
Irving
Trae
Ja
CP3
DJ

Most of those guys are average to bad defenders. DJ can get to the rack and finish at will but is still balancing calling his own name with team basketball. If he can improve his 3ball, he will be top 5 no doubt. We have an all NBA player in the coming years and I’m confident in that.

It's unfair to label Luka a PG tbh. Also Irving sucks. Dude has played one game this year. Also Dame is done for the year and he sucks too. The media just hasn't paid any attention to it bc he is living in Portland. Dude has turned into an overrated chucker shooting 40%.

Next year I see it as
Ja
Steph
Trae
Ball
Murray

[DAF86]

Djm does not go after cheap rebounds. That's just wrong. Does he get open rebounds? Of course, every player does occasionally. But we don't put djm on the lane for rebounds during free throws and then make his teammates get out of the way. Acting like djms rebounding numbers are artificially inflated is ridiculous.

He does cheat to get rebounds. Unless you are a guy like Doncic that plays PG on offense and forward on defense, if you are getting around 10 rebounds per game, you are hunting for them, grabing rebounds that your teammates could have had. It isn't that big of a deal (proving that you are not leaving your guy open to go after rebounds), but it isn't a difference maker for your team either. The rebounds that make a difference are those contested ones. The type of rebounds that bigmen get.


It's amazing the lengths people will go to not give this kid props. Poor mama Westbrook? How stupid are people that they think thats what this kid is (or that being compared to Westbrook is even a bad thing).

And relax, I'm not taking anything away from Murray. There's nothing I'd like more than for him to become a mega-super-duper star. I'm just stating something that I think should be pretty obvious for NBA and Spurs fans now: guards grabbing rebounds isn't a difference maker, and Murray needs to work on that offensive efficiency. I don't see how that's hating on the guy.

Also, yeah, if you are ever serious about winning, being Westbrook-lite isn't ideal.

[KingKev]

He does cheat to get rebounds. Unless you are a guy like Doncic that plays PG on offense and forward on defense, if you are getting around 10 rebounds per game, you are hunting for them, grabing rebounds that your teammates could have had. It isn't that big of a deal (proving that you are not leaving your guy open to go after rebounds), but it isn't a difference maker for your team either. The rebounds that make a difference are those contested ones. The type of rebounds that bigmen get.



And relax, I'm not taking anything away from Murray. There's nothing I'd like more than for him to become a mega-super-duper star. I'm just stating something that I think should be pretty obvious for NBA and Spurs fans now: guards grabbing rebounds isn't a difference maker, and Murray needs to work on that offensive efficiency. I don't see how that's hating on the guy.

Also, yeah, if you are ever serious about winning, being Westbrook-lite isn't ideal.

Imagine this guy as your teammate. Hey Kev stop getting my rebounds! I’m the big man and you are just a guard!

[DAF86]

Imagine this guy as your teammate. Hey Kev stop getting my rebounds! I’m the big man and you are just a guard!

Spurs fans are funny. You are like little kids. When Westbrook does it you'd be like "hahaha, look at that clown, hunting for rebounds. Pathetic" but as soon as one of our guys does it's all "wow, what a beast. We have our own triple double machine" :lol

Here, I leave you some articles about the relative importance of triple-doubles.
https://sites.northwestern.edu/nusportsanalytics/2019/06/21/the-rise-of-triple-doubles-in-the-nba-examining-the-statistical-causes/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/primetimesportstalk.com/2019/08/05/is-the-triple-double-overrated/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/7727969/analysis-triple-doubles-no-longer-a-rarity-in-the-nba/amp/

[itzsoweezee]

He does cheat to get rebounds. Unless you are a guy like Doncic that plays PG on offense and forward on defense, if you are getting around 10 rebounds per game, you are hunting for them, grabing rebounds that your teammates could have had. It isn't that big of a deal (proving that you are not leaving your guy open to go after rebounds), but it isn't a difference maker for your team either. The rebounds that make a difference are those contested ones. The type of rebounds that bigmen get.



And relax, I'm not taking anything away from Murray. There's nothing I'd like more than for him to become a mega-super-duper star. I'm just stating something that I think should be pretty obvious for NBA and Spurs fans now: guards grabbing rebounds isn't a difference maker, and Murray needs to work on that offensive efficiency. I don't see how that's hating on the guy.

Also, yeah, if you are ever serious about winning, being Westbrook-lite isn't ideal.

Do you have any actual evidence of his “cheating” to get rebounds? I haven’t seen anything like that from Murray. He’s always been a great rebounder. That’s due to his very long reach, effort, and lack of rebounding big men on the roster, not cheating.

[KingKev]

Do you have any actual evidence of his “cheating” to get rebounds? I haven’t seen anything like that from Murray. He’s always been a great rebounder. That’s due to his very long reach, effort, and lack of rebounding big men on the roster, not cheating.


He has been on record saying as a kid hooping with much older guys the only way he could get the ball was to steal it from them or hustle to get rebounds and loose balls. DAF86, as a child himself should understand.

[John B]

He does cheat to get rebounds. Unless you are a guy like Doncic that plays PG on offense and forward on defense, if you are getting around 10 rebounds per game, you are hunting for them, grabing rebounds that your teammates could have had. It isn't that big of a deal (proving that you are not leaving your guy open to go after rebounds), but it isn't a difference maker for your team either. The rebounds that make a difference are those contested ones. The type of rebounds that bigmen get.



And relax, I'm not taking anything away from Murray. There's nothing I'd like more than for him to become a mega-super-duper star. I'm just stating something that I think should be pretty obvious for NBA and Spurs fans now: guards grabbing rebounds isn't a difference maker, and Murray needs to work on that offensive efficiency. I don't see how that's hating on the guy.

Also, yeah, if you are ever serious about winning, being Westbrook-lite isn't ideal.

DJM is long PG who can rim run. It’s but natural he gets rebounds and I’ve seen him grab rebounds against bigs. Granted his teammates would probably let him grab the rebound or two but that’s what teammates do. I have no problem him getting 3-doubles. It’s good for the team to have a budding star and could even attract a caliber FA in.

The problem I have sometimes is he gambles too much for a steal. I hate to think to pad stats, being the league leader in steal. Because sometimes he gets burn. I’m not big on advanced metrics on how effective a defender DJM is vs his steals. I’d rather he stays in front of his guy on some plays.

Lastly, the best comparison to look up to is Magic, who was also a 3-double machine. Unlike Russ, Magic made his team better as someone who can rim run, distribute and score. It’s tough because Magic did it in a slower and low scoring NBA, with giants staying in the paint.. whew

[DAF86]

Do you have any actual evidence of his “cheating” to get rebounds? I haven’t seen anything like that from Murray. He’s always been a great rebounder. That’s due to his very long reach, effort, and lack of rebounding big men on the roster, not cheating.

There are many examples but what's the point? I will say them to you and you could just say "no, that isn't true" and that's it, no productive argument can be have.

There are plenty examples that if you aren't a blind homer can easily see like getting needlessly among frontmen to grab rebounds others could have had, or always being the third guy on opposing free throws attempts to grab cheap rebounds when they miss. But instead of talking about this, I will just post this stat:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=1

Out of all the rebound leaders, Murray is the guy that grabs the lowest % of contested rebounds. What does that mean? That he grabs the least amount of meaningful rebounds. The vast majority of his rebounds are meaningless. That means rebounds that if he wouldn't have got, a teammate would have grabbed. That happens when you are hunting for rebounds to stat pad.

[DAF86]

Congrats sons, you made me look like a Murray hater when I was just trying to provide constructive criticism. :lol

I love the improvement he made as a playmaker and the mentality he showed to grab that 1st option job. I just don't care for his rebound hunting and I wish he could improve his efficiency. That's all he needs to become a true star.

[Atl Spur]

I still rather have Simmons! Murray has improved, kudos to him.

[KingKev]

There are many examples but what's the point? I will say them to you and you could just say "no, that isn't true" and that's it, no productive argument can be have.

There are plenty examples that if you aren't a blind homer can easily see like getting needlessly among frontmen to grab rebounds others could have had, or always being the third guy on opposing free throws attempts to grab cheap rebounds when they miss. But instead of talking about this, I will just post this stat:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=1

Out of all the rebound leaders, Murray is the guy that grabs the lowest % of contested rebounds. What does that mean? That he grabs the least amount of meaningful rebounds. The vast majority of his rebounds are meaningless. That means rebounds that if he wouldn't have got, a teammate would have grabbed. That happens when you are hunting for rebounds to stat pad.

Yikes. I never saw this stat before. He is definitely a rebound hog. The computer says so. He should stop trying to rebound around teammates and improve his fanboy rebounding %.

Hoe STFU.

[DAF86]

Yikes. I never saw this stat before. He is definitely a rebound hog. The computer says so. He should stop trying to rebound around teammates and improve his fanboy rebounding %.

Hoe STFU.

Are you 7? :lol

[KingKev]

Are you 7? :lol

I’ll never get mad at a player for securing a rebound or a loose ball even if advanced analytics say his teammate should have gotten that ball. Part of winning is no one fking cares who got the rebound, the loose ball, the final basket or the final assist. Players and fanboys should care about the win.

[DAF86]

I’ll never get mad at a player for securing a rebound or a loose ball even if advanced analytics say his teammate should have gotten that ball. Part of winning is no one fking cares who got the rebound, the loose ball, the final basket or the final assist. Players and fanboys should care about the win.

Well, that's exactly my point. :lol I don't care for rebounds that may look good on the box score of an individual but are ultimately meaningless on the impact of a game. I prefer my players to make a real impact where it really matters for their roles. So that, you know, the team can win more.

I would prefer for my 1st option PG to grab less uncontested rebounds but improve his offensive efficiency.

[KingKev]

Well, that's exactly my point. :lol I don't care for rebounds that may look good on the box score of an individual but are ultimately meaningless on the impact of a game. I prefer my players to make a real impact where it really matters for their roles. So that, you know, the team can win more.

I would prefer for my 1st option PG to grab less uncontested rebounds but improve his offensive efficiency.

The majority of his counterparts are hardly adequate and will have to clear the ball to him in most cases anyways. Pick your battles.

[talkspurs]

There are many examples but what's the point? I will say them to you and you could just say "no, that isn't true" and that's it, no productive argument can be have.

There are plenty examples that if you aren't a blind homer can easily see like getting needlessly among frontmen to grab rebounds others could have had, or always being the third guy on opposing free throws attempts to grab cheap rebounds when they miss. But instead of talking about this, I will just post this stat:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=1

Out of all the rebound leaders, Murray is the guy that grabs the lowest % of contested rebounds. What does that mean? That he grabs the least amount of meaningful rebounds. The vast majority of his rebounds are meaningless. That means rebounds that if he wouldn't have got, a teammate would have grabbed. That happens when you are hunting for rebounds to stat pad.

I read this stat different then you are trying to describe. This to me is saying others are not around to grab it. This does not mean he is getting it from his teammates. You look at the other wings on the list tatum/luka and they are just above him in % at 22. harden at 24 and harris at 26. Are these all rebound hogs also? I would guess most of these uncontested rebounds are the ones that are going over the bigs. This also explains why they have higher contested rebound %. With people shooting more and more Jumpers and 3s then in the past the rebounds are becoming longer and not just at the rim. If you just try to have your "bigs" rebound you could be losing out on lots of rebounds.

I went back to look at offense rebounds and spurs have typically had their guards push back to stop fast breaks. murry this year is getting about 15% of his rebounds on offense Jacob is about 44%. looked at LMA (to get a god year i went with 18-19) and he was 33%. White another guard is 14%. So when they are supposed to be getting back he is about the same % as the other guards. Your bigs which would typically stay to try and get a rebound are much higher. Vassel is also about 14%. With him getting the Defense rebounds he may also be able to push the pace a little bit. This also all goes back to that I read it as uncontested from other players not that he is takeing them from his team. His avg reb distance is also up there with the other guards on the list.

[MannyIsGod]

There are many examples but what's the point? I will say them to you and you could just say "no, that isn't true" and that's it, no productive argument can be have.

There are plenty examples that if you aren't a blind homer can easily see like getting needlessly among frontmen to grab rebounds others could have had, or always being the third guy on opposing free throws attempts to grab cheap rebounds when they miss. But instead of talking about this, I will just post this stat:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=1

Out of all the rebound leaders, Murray is the guy that grabs the lowest % of contested rebounds. What does that mean? That he grabs the least amount of meaningful rebounds. The vast majority of his rebounds are meaningless. That means rebounds that if he wouldn't have got, a teammate would have grabbed. That happens when you are hunting for rebounds to stat pad.

This is some amazing circular logic to make a point. This is what happens when instead of watching basketball and coming to conclusions based on what you see, you try to shoehorn stats to make the point you want to be true. The idea that an uncontested rebound just means a teammate would grab it is based on what exactly? Your stat selection could easily mean that smaller players grab a smaller percentage of rebounds in contested scenarios because they are smaller than those they are contesting the rebound with. There's a reason that why someone like Gobert is at nearly 50% of those. There's a reason why the league leaders in rebounding are larger players. What happens when you normalize the data for smaller players like DJM? Is his percentage still the lowest?

[KingKev]

This is some amazing circular logic to make a point. This is what happens when instead of watching basketball and coming to conclusions based on what you see, you try to shoehorn stats to make the point you want to be true. The idea that an uncontested rebound just means a teammate would grab it is based on what exactly? Your stat selection could easily mean that smaller players grab a smaller percentage of rebounds in contested scenarios because they are smaller than those they are contesting the rebound with. There's a reason that why someone like Gobert is at nearly 50% of those. There's a reason why the league leaders in rebounding are larger players. What happens when you normalize the data for smaller players like DJM? Is his percentage still the lowest?

I like your analysis. Might have to define normalize to DAF86 to further drive home the point. At any rate I think we can all agree DJ is a definite building block for the future.

[DAF86]

This is some amazing circular logic to make a point. This is what happens when instead of watching basketball and coming to conclusions based on what you see, you try to shoehorn stats to make the point you want to be true. The idea that an uncontested rebound just means a teammate would grab it is based on what exactly? Your stat selection could easily mean that smaller players grab a smaller percentage of rebounds in contested scenarios because they are smaller than those they are contesting the rebound with. There's a reason that why someone like Gobert is at nearly 50% of those. There's a reason why the league leaders in rebounding are larger players. What happens when you normalize the data for smaller players like DJM? Is his percentage still the lowest?

The thing is that smaller players like DJM don't average over 8 rpg precisely because of this height disadvantage and because it isn't what is asked of them. They grab the rebounds they have to grab and that's it. Them grabing more rebounds, rebounds that could be had by some of their teammates does absolutely nothing for the benefit of the team.

Just to put it in numbers:

DJ is grabbing 8.4 rebounds per game, but only 20% of them are contested. That adds to 1.68 rebounds per game. The rest are uncontested, which means (in 90% of the cases) another teammate could have had the rebound.

So Murray is averaging 19.2 ppg, 8.9 apg and 8.4 rebounds per game. But if he were to average 19.2, 8.9 and 1.68 rebounds per game, the Spurs would be exactly the same team they are now. Sure, DJ's numbers would look a lot less sexy but the Spurs wouldn't suffer one bit with that drop off.

That's what I want folks to understand with the lack of importance that high volume rebounding guards usually have. Not just Murray, with all rebounding guards it is the same.

[itzsoweezee]

There are many examples but what's the point? I will say them to you and you could just say "no, that isn't true" and that's it, no productive argument can be have.

There are plenty examples that if you aren't a blind homer can easily see like getting needlessly among frontmen to grab rebounds others could have had, or always being the third guy on opposing free throws attempts to grab cheap rebounds when they miss. But instead of talking about this, I will just post this stat:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB&dir=1

Out of all the rebound leaders, Murray is the guy that grabs the lowest % of contested rebounds. What does that mean? That he grabs the least amount of meaningful rebounds. The vast majority of his rebounds are meaningless. That means rebounds that if he wouldn't have got, a teammate would have grabbed. That happens when you are hunting for rebounds to stat pad.

Lol @ calling me a homer

I watch the games, I don’t see Murray hunt for rebounds. Sorry. I’ve been critical of Murray in the past, but never over his rebounding.

And that stat doesn’t really support the assertion you’re making

[KingKev]

The thing is that smaller players like DJM don't average over 8 rpg precisely because of this height disadvantage and because it isn't what is asked of them. They grab the rebounds they have to grab and that's it. Them grabing more rebounds, rebounds that could be had by some of their teammates does absolutely nothing for the benefit of the team.

Just to put it in numbers:

DJ is grabbing 8.4 rebounds per game, but only 20% of them are contested. That adds to 1.68 rebounds per game. The rest are uncontested, which means (in 90% of the cases) another teammate could have had the rebound.

So Murray is averaging 19.2 ppg, 8.9 apg and 8.4 rebounds per game. But if he were to average 19.2, 8.9 and 1.68 rebounds per game. The Spurs would be exactly the same team they are now. Sure, DJ's numbers would look a lot less sexy but the Spurs wouldn't suffer one bit with that drop off.

That's what I want folks to understand with the lack of importance that high volume rebounding guards usually have.

Someone lock this thread. Uncontested rebounds is a stupid fucking stat to begin with but while we are being dumb we might as well go down the rabbit hole and calculate who is not contesting the rebound and where that uncontested rebound would go based on a computer algorithm or NBA 2K simulation or a fanboys oujiboard calculation.

[talkspurs]

The thing is that smaller players like DJM don't average over 8 rpg precisely because of this height disadvantage and because it isn't what is asked of them. They grab the rebounds they have to grab and that's it. Them grabing more rebounds, rebounds that could be had by some of their teammates does absolutely nothing for the benefit of the team.

Just to put it in numbers:

DJ is grabbing 8.4 rebounds per game, but only 20% of them are contested. That adds to 1.68 rebounds per game. The rest are uncontested, which means (in 90% of the cases) another teammate could have had the rebound.

So Murray is averaging 19.2 ppg, 8.9 apg and 8.4 rebounds per game. But if he were to average 19.2, 8.9 and 1.68 rebounds per game, the Spurs would be exactly the same team they are now. Sure, DJ's numbers would look a lot less sexy but the Spurs wouldn't suffer one bit with that drop off.

That's what I want folks to understand with the lack of importance that high volume rebounding guards usually have. Not just Murray, with all rebounding guards it is the same.

My point Im not understand and am actually trying to understand is why does uncontested mean another Spur would have gotten the rebound? I am not seeing uncontested as spurs were the only one to get the rebound. If you could explain that better maybe I could understand where your coming from.

[DAF86]

I read this stat different then you are trying to describe. This to me is saying others are not around to grab it. This does not mean he is getting it from his teammates. You look at the other wings on the list tatum/luka and they are just above him in % at 22. harden at 24 and harris at 26. Are these all rebound hogs also? I would guess most of these uncontested rebounds are the ones that are going over the bigs. This also explains why they have higher contested rebound %. With people shooting more and more Jumpers and 3s then in the past the rebounds are becoming longer and not just at the rim. If you just try to have your "bigs" rebound you could be losing out on lots of rebounds.

I went back to look at offense rebounds and spurs have typically had their guards push back to stop fast breaks. murry this year is getting about 15% of his rebounds on offense Jacob is about 44%. looked at LMA (to get a god year i went with 18-19) and he was 33%. White another guard is 14%. So when they are supposed to be getting back he is about the same % as the other guards. Your bigs which would typically stay to try and get a rebound are much higher. Vassel is also about 14%. With him getting the Defense rebounds he may also be able to push the pace a little bit. This also all goes back to that I read it as uncontested from other players not that he is takeing them from his team. His avg reb distance is also up there with the other guards on the list.

When does that happen in basketball? That no-one, not only opposing players but also teammates aren't around to grab a rebound? :lol

When a shot is missed, the defending team boxes out to try and grab the rebound. Often times the rebound is contested with an opossing player, other times is not, but very rarely a defending team has only one option to grab an uncontested defensive rebound. When a defensive rebound is uncontested, whichever player is closer to the ball gets it. That usually means bigmen, that's why they tend to grab the most rebounds. When a guard is grabbing rebounds at a bigman rate, it is because that guard is putting some extra "effort" in grabbing those rebounds that usually wouldn't fall on his vaccinity because of the position he plays and his phisical disadvantage.

[MannyIsGod]

So using the rebound time stamps from the game log from last night, I want to see what a typical DJM triple double looks like reboundingwise.

1 - 8:07 first. Murry grabs an offensive rebound off his own miss that Jakob was batting around. If Murray is not here, this rebound is not grabbed by a teammate but the Thunder
2 - 6:52 first. Murray grabs a near airball on an OKC shot. He moves into position after Keldon moves out to contest the shot. Derrick White could have crashed the board if that area was open, but instead leaks out when DJM gets into position and gets an open 3 on the break after a Murray outlet. White could have rebounded here if he had to, but he didn't and it worked out for the better (missed the shot but still a good open look).
3 - 1:46 first. 3 Spurs and no OKC players around the basket, OKC miss comes off straight to Murray. Another Spur probably would have grabbed this ball if Murray wasn't here, but he didn't do anything out of his way to go get it. He was just playing D, shot went up, he grabbed a board.
4 - 7:33 second. Similar to the previous rebound. Murray ends up with a board that Jakob would have grabbed if he wasn't there.
5 - 7:23 second. Murray secures a long rebound off of a White 3 miss. Not only is this not a rebound any other Spur could get (although it definitely didn't seem contested), it is highly likely to be an OKC fast break if DJM doesn't secure it.
6 - 10:56 third. Murray follows his man in off a PnR and picks up the rebound off the miss. McDermott would likely be able to grab this if Murray isn't here, but Murray isn't out of position by any means.
7 - 7:46 third. Murray grabs a board that Jakob is fighting for and comes out to 15 feet or so. Immediately ignites a fast break that ends up with a McDermott 3. This isn't a contested rebound, but if Murray isn't in position to grab it, OKC ends up with it and there is no fast break.
8 - 3:12 third. Murray follows his own miss, gets his rebound between 3 OKC players. Not sure if this counts as contested. No one challenges Murray for the board because he follows the miss so well and is in the right position. If he's not there, OKC ends up with the board yet it wasn't really a contested rebound.
9 - 46.9 third. Murray gets an uncontested board in the middle of 2 other Spurs. If he doesn't get it, another Spur definitely does.
10 - 10.7 third. Murray gets a rebound by boxing out and having superior position on an OKC player. This definitely feels like a contested rebound.

Out of those 10, only #9 was one where Murray probably didn't need to crash the boards. Obviously just one game, but none of this seems like pointless stat hunting. I'm honestly not sure how they determine contested rebounds, because several of those there wasn't anyone in contact with Murray, but if he doesn't grab it, its not Spurs ball.

The dude is just good at knowing where the ball is going to come off. Its a trait you see in all good rebounders.

[MannyIsGod]

The thing is that smaller players like DJM don't average over 8 rpg precisely because of this height disadvantage and because it isn't what is asked of them. They grab the rebounds they have to grab and that's it. Them grabing more rebounds, rebounds that could be had by some of their teammates does absolutely nothing for the benefit of the team.

Just to put it in numbers:

DJ is grabbing 8.4 rebounds per game, but only 20% of them are contested. That adds to 1.68 rebounds per game. The rest are uncontested, which means (in 90% of the cases) another teammate could have had the rebound.

So Murray is averaging 19.2 ppg, 8.9 apg and 8.4 rebounds per game. But if he were to average 19.2, 8.9 and 1.68 rebounds per game, the Spurs would be exactly the same team they are now. Sure, DJ's numbers would look a lot less sexy but the Spurs wouldn't suffer one bit with that drop off.

That's what I want folks to understand with the lack of importance that high volume rebounding guards usually have. Not just Murray, with all rebounding guards it is the same.

Well I'll agree with you that guards with high rebounding percentage aren't some game breaking advantage. But you can understand that, and also understand that much of what you're saying in order to make that point is wrong. I don't disagree that I would rather my point guard to be a dead eye 3 point shooter than a great rebounder. There's not much to debate there. Having a TS% above .60 would be far better than averaging 8 boards a game as a guard. That is undeniable.

But there's a difference between DJM being a very good rebounder within the flow of the game, and saying he is "cheating" in order to get more rebounds and stat pad. Triple doubles are definitely one of the most overrated statistical figures in basketball. But there's no indication that DJM is going out of his way in order to get them. He's just a naturally good rebounder - and has been ever since his very first year in the league. Also you're trying to fit DJM into a mold of what you consider a "true" star because you don't value his rebounding. While I don't think triple doubles are the end all be all, DJM is a true star right now. Its actually pretty amazing how well he's played in the past month, and NBA analysts are starting to take notice despite how much they loathe the Spurs (its amazing how DeMar is now their darling now that he's not in SA). He's not a star because of his rebounding, but rather the total package - especially his improvement on offense coupled with his defensive prowess. But from what I can see, the Spurs are leveraging his rebounding skill pretty well turning into fast offense. And just because I don't think its the most desirable stat in a PG doesn't mean its worthless either. The Spurs aren't exactly a great rebounding team as built.

[DAF86]

My point Im not understand and am actually trying to understand is why does uncontested mean another Spur would have gotten the rebound? I am not seeing uncontested as spurs were the only one to get the rebound. If you could explain that better maybe I could understand where your coming from.

Because a "contested rebound" is a rebound that you contest with an opposing player. That means if you don't grab that rebound, the other team will have it. Those are the most meaningful rebounds because it gives your team an extra possession over the other team.

An "uncontested rebound" is when there's no opposing team player near to try and rebound the ball. If Murray grabs a rebound, but that same rebound could have been had by any of his teammates, it is an "uncontested" rebound. Even if two teammates "contest" for a rebound, like sometimes happens, it is technically an "uncontested" rebound. In basketball it is very rare the occassion where a rebound can be grabbed by one player and one player only. That usually happens in long rebounds that either get grabbed by a player or go out of bounds (in which case it's still ball for the defending team, so grabbing that rebound is still not that important).

[KingKev]

So using the rebound time stamps from the game log from last night, I want to see what a typical DJM triple double looks like reboundingwise.

1 - 8:07 first. Murry grabs an offensive rebound off his own miss that Jakob was batting around. If Murray is not here, this rebound is not grabbed by a teammate but the Thunder
2 - 6:52 first. Murray grabs a near airball on an OKC shot. He moves into position after Keldon moves out to contest the shot. Derrick White could have crashed the board if that area was open, but instead leaks out when DJM gets into position and gets an open 3 on the break after a Murray outlet. White could have rebounded here if he had to, but he didn't and it worked out for the better (missed the shot but still a good open look).
3 - 1:46 first. 3 Spurs and no OKC players around the basket, OKC miss comes off straight to Murray. Another Spur probably would have grabbed this ball if Murray wasn't here, but he didn't do anything out of his way to go get it. He was just playing D, shot went up, he grabbed a board.
4 - 7:33 second. Similar to the previous rebound. Murray ends up with a board that Jakob would have grabbed if he wasn't there.
5 - 7:23 second. Murray secures a long rebound off of a White 3 miss. Not only is this not a rebound any other Spur could get (although it definitely didn't seem contested), it is highly likely to be an OKC fast break if DJM doesn't secure it.
6 - 10:56 third. Murray follows his man in off a PnR and picks up the rebound off the miss. McDermott would likely be able to grab this if Murray isn't here, but Murray isn't out of position by any means.
7 - 7:46 third. Murray grabs a board that Jakob is fighting for and comes out to 15 feet or so. Immediately ignites a fast break that ends up with a McDermott 3. This isn't a contested rebound, but if Murray isn't in position to grab it, OKC ends up with it and there is no fast break.
8 - 3:12 third. Murray follows his own miss, gets his rebound between 3 OKC players. Not sure if this counts as contested. No one challenges Murray for the board because he follows the miss so well and is in the right position. If he's not there, OKC ends up with the board yet it wasn't really a contested rebound.
9 - 46.9 third. Murray gets an uncontested board in the middle of 2 other Spurs. If he doesn't get it, another Spur definitely does.
10 - 10.7 third. Murray gets a rebound by boxing out and having superior position on an OKC player. This definitely feels like a contested rebound.

Out of those 10, only #9 was one where Murray probably didn't need to crash the boards. Obviously just one game, but none of this seems like pointless stat hunting. I'm honestly not sure how they determine contested rebounds, because several of those there wasn't anyone in contact with Murray, but if he doesn't grab it, its not Spurs ball.

The dude is just good at knowing where the ball is going to come off. Its a trait you see in all good rebounders.

Crashing the boards along with others 90’s terms including “midrange” and “defense” are dirty words in this day and age.

[talkspurs]

When does that happen in basketball? That no-one, not only opposing players but also teammates aren't around to grab a rebound? :lol

When a shot is missed, the defending team boxes out to try and grab the rebound. Often times the rebound is contested with an opossing player, other times is not, but very rarely a defending team has only one option to grab an uncontested defensive rebound. When a defensive rebound is uncontested, whichever player is closer to the ball gets it. That usually means bigmen, that's why they tend to grab the most rebounds. When a guard is grabbing rebounds at a bigman rate, it is because that guard is putting some extra "effort" in grabbing those rebounds that usually wouldn't fall on his vaccinity because of the position he plays and his phisical disadvantage.

You atleast gave some reason to why you feel the way you do but I see many problems with your logic.

1. when I said noone was around I did not mean in the building. obviously there are 9 other players and refs on the court. But by you stating what you did helps prove my point. "That no-one, not only opposing players but also teammates aren't around to grab a rebound? " Exactly there is your team plus the other team to rebound. uncontested does not mean that if DJ did not rebound it someone from the Spurs would have. it could have been someone from the other team. Which then yes him not getting these uncontested rebounds would hurt the team.

2. You say whichever player is closer gets it. That usually means a big man. I would agree with you for rebounds that fall off the rim. but what about the ones that bounce of the rim. Sometimes they will bounce out to the 3 point line. Bigs usually do not get those. As shots get longer the rebounds get longer. This increases the rebounds for non bigs. So Murray is a non big so the longer rebounds would be where he gets them at. I believe his distance was 6.3. I am guessing that is 6.3 feet so enough that it would have bounced over a big man. Yes some of them will be in the paint and some will be further out.

3. More and more teams are not playing with 2 rebounding bigs anymore. This leaves 1/2 to 2/3 of the rim open for rebounds especially if they go off fast. This also opens up more rebounds for non bigs.

4. It seems to me more pgs drive then sg and maybe even sf (now that most sf have moved up to pf). This puts him in the lane more then others on his team to get slightly closer rebounds.

While I will agree that he puts in extra effort in getting rebounds I would not want to discourage someone from putting in effort from getting a rebound unless it would be hurting his team which I dont see how his is.

Nowhere on there do I see uncontested as it saying the Spurs were guaranteed the rebound even if murray did not get it.

[talkspurs]

Because a "contested rebound" is a rebound that you contest with an opposing player. That means if you don't grab that rebound, the other team will have it. Those are the most meaningful rebounds because it gives your team an extra possession over the other team.

An "uncontested rebound" is when there's no opposing team player near to try and rebound the ball. If Murray grabs a rebound, but that same rebound could have been had by any of his teammates, it is an "uncontested" rebound. Even if two teammates "contest" for a rebound, like sometimes happens, it is technically an "uncontested" rebound. In basketball it is very rare the occassion where a rebound can be grabbed by one player and one player only. That usually happens in long rebounds that either get grabbed by a player or go out of bounds (in which case it's still ball for the defending team, so grabbing that rebound is still not that important).

Even going off uncontested being when there's no opposing team player near to try and rebound the ball does not mean they are not the second closet player to the ball. If DJ does not get the rebound they still would even though it was uncontested. Usually most teams still play man defense so usually the next closest person to you would be someone on the other team. So even though it may be uncontested I would think a decent amount of the time the next closet player would not be a spur.

[DAF86]

Well I'll agree with you that guards with high rebounding percentage aren't some game breaking advantage. But you can understand that, and also understand that much of what you're saying in order to make that point is wrong. I don't disagree that I would rather my point guard to be a dead eye 3 point shooter than a great rebounder. There's not much to debate there. Having a TS% above .60 would be far better than averaging 8 boards a game as a guard. That is undeniable.

But there's a difference between DJM being a very good rebounder within the flow of the game, and saying he is "cheating" in order to get more rebounds and stat pad. Triple doubles are definitely one of the most overrated statistical figures in basketball. But there's no indication that DJM is going out of his way in order to get them. He's just a naturally good rebounder - and has been ever since his very first year in the league. Also you're trying to fit DJM into a mold of what you consider a "true" star because you don't value his rebounding. While I don't think triple doubles are the end all be all, DJM is a true star right now. Its actually pretty amazing how well he's played in the past month, and NBA analysts are starting to take notice despite how much they loathe the Spurs (its amazing how DeMar is now their darling now that he's not in SA). He's not a star because of his rebounding, but rather the total package - especially his improvement on offense coupled with his defensive prowess. But from what I can see, the Spurs are leveraging his rebounding skill pretty well turning into fast offense. And just because I don't think its the most desirable stat in a PG doesn't mean its worthless either. The Spurs aren't exactly a great rebounding team as built.

Well, this is where we can find a common ground. To me it's clear that Murray goes "rebound hunting" sometimes but it doesn't matter. It is a point where we are never going to be on the same page because it is subjective.

The point I was really trying to make is that one that you brought up. Regardless of whether Murray stat pads or not, I just don't care about guards grabbing high rebounding numbers because it is ultimately pretty meaningless in the overall impact of a game. I do care, however, on improving that offensive efficiency. That's where Murray is gonna provide his most impactful weapon as a Spurs player if he ever gets it to where star players usually have it. If he goes from a barely above .500 TS to around .600, with this current usage %, then that's when he will become a star through and through.

[Seventyniner]

Out of those 10, only #9 was one where Murray probably didn't need to crash the boards. Obviously just one game, but none of this seems like pointless stat hunting. I'm honestly not sure how they determine contested rebounds, because several of those there wasn't anyone in contact with Murray, but if he doesn't grab it, its not Spurs ball.

The dude is just good at knowing where the ball is going to come off. Its a trait you see in all good rebounders.

Great stuff. Especially the parts showing that "uncontested" doesn't necessarily mean that there were any other Spurs players around. :bobo

Another consideration: Pop might tell Murray to position himself for rebounds and other players to get going in transition once it looks like there's an easy defensive rebound. That could artificially inflate Murray's rebound numbers, but it would be because of coaching and a game plan (the Spurs play much faster than they have in the past) rather than selfishness.

[MannyIsGod]

DJM actually leads the team in Deffered Rebound Chances per game. He along with Jakob both average 1.3 differed rebounds per game. Thats the exact opposite of what you would see if he was stat chasing. Honestly that one stat should put all this to bed.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB_CHANCE_DEFER&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

[exstatic]

In the era of 3 point shooting, there are a lot more long rebounds into space. Most of those will be uncontested.

Call me when DJ starts elbowing his teammates to get boards, and scowling at them when denied. I’ve never seen a teammate work to get out of his way and give him a board, and that happened all the time with Russ in OKC.

[DAF86]

Even going off uncontested being when there's no opposing team player near to try and rebound the ball does not mean they are not the second closet player to the ball. If DJ does not get the rebound they still would even though it was uncontested. Usually most teams still play man defense so usually the next closest person to you would be someone on the other team. So even though it may be uncontested I would think a decent amount of the time the next closet player would not be a spur.

Well, not when you are "rebound hunting".

Murray is a PG, he usually guards opossing PGs. PGs are usually the first to get back on defense when a shot is put up. When your man is the farthest away from your basket, but you are still the closest one to the rebound, well, you are "rebounding hunting" a bit.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, this is where we can find a common ground. To me it's clear that Murray goes "rebound hunting" sometimes but it doesn't matter. It is a point where we are never going to be on the same page because it is subjective.

The point I was really trying to make is that one that you brought up. Regardless of whether Murray stat pads or not, I just don't care about guards grabbing high rebounding numbers because it is ultimately pretty meaningless in the overall impact of a game. I do care, however, on improving that offensive efficiency. That's where Murray is gonna provide his most impactful weapon as a Spurs player if he ever gets it to where star players usually have it. If he goes from a barely above .500 TS to around .600, with this current usage %, then that's when he will become a star through and through.

I mean if he does that, he's essentially a top 5 player in the league. I don't expect him to do that, although I'm constantly revising my ceiling upwards for him based on his play. I am happy with the heights DJM has achieved. I don't think, and I'm pretty sure most here don't, that he'll ever be the kind of player who is a perfect #1 option or even a preffered #1 option. I love DJM and I think he's a star now and I think he's got an it factor that is we haven't seen in a player since the big 3 but its pretty undeniable that he's not the most efficient. I think thats OK though. I do think hell improve, and I think him having a legitimate second star around him would do wonders. But yes, I hope he continue to improve on his shooting.

[DAF86]

DJM actually leads the team in Deffered Rebound Chances per game. He along with Jakob both average 1.3 differed rebounds per game. Thats the exact opposite of what you would see if he was stat chasing. Honestly that one stat should put all this to bed.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB_CHANCE_DEFER&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

The fact that our PG is in position to grab and "defer" as many rebounds as our center doesn't sound weird to you?

[MannyIsGod]

Great stuff. Especially the parts showing that "uncontested" doesn't necessarily mean that there were any other Spurs players around. :bobo

Another consideration: Pop might tell Murray to position himself for rebounds and other players to get going in transition once it looks like there's an easy defensive rebound. That could artificially inflate Murray's rebound numbers, but it would be because of coaching and a game plan (the Spurs play much faster than they have in the past) rather than selfishness.

I have zero doubts the Spurs scheme around Murray being a good rebounder. I think you see how this played out where his defensive rebounds keyed a break.

[DAF86]

I mean if he does that, he's essentially a top 5 player in the league. I don't expect him to do that, although I'm constantly revising my ceiling upwards for him based on his play. I am happy with the heights DJM has achieved. I don't think, and I'm pretty sure most here don't, that he'll ever be the kind of player who is a perfect #1 option or even a preffered #1 option. I love DJM and I think he's a star now and I think he's got an it factor that is we haven't seen in a player since the big 3 but its pretty undeniable that he's not the most efficient. I think thats OK though. I do think hell improve, and I think him having a legitimate second star around him would do wonders. But yes, I hope he continue to improve on his shooting.

Do you consider Jrue Holiday a Top 5 player in the league? Because he does more or less what I said there.

[talkspurs]

Well, not when you are "rebound hunting".

Murray is a PG, he usually guards opossing PGs. PGs are usually the first to get back on defense when a shot is put up. When your man is the farthest away from your basket, but you are still the closest one to the rebound, well, you are "rebounding hunting" a bit.

not if they just drove through the lane for either a layup or a drive and kick. once the shot is up you look for the rebound when on defense. You dont automatically assume you will get the rebound. You are also supposed to keep an eye on your man in case they stay on offense.

[KingKev]

Well, not when you are "rebound hunting".

Murray is a PG, he usually guards opossing PGs. PGs are usually the first to get back on defense when a shot is put up. When your man is the farthest away from your basket, but you are still the closest one to the rebound, well, you are "rebounding hunting" a bit.

But DJ is also a top defensive PG in virtually all aspects of that side of the ball, including *cough* rebounding.

[MannyIsGod]

The fact that our PG is in position to grab and "defer" as many rebounds as our center doesn't sound weird to you?

No. The team is making use of the tools that it has. Murray is an elite rebounder and thus they likely scheme to put him in a position over others. However, if DJM was doing it just for stat purposes, he wouldn't be deferring.

if we look at on/off numbers, we can see the team rebounds better when Murray is on the court.

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612759&PlayerId=1627749




DReb%
With Murray - .744
Wihout .709

OReb%

With Murray - .271
Wihout - .267

[MannyIsGod]

Do you consider Jrue Holiday a Top 5 player in the league? Because he does more or less what I said there.

Jrue doesn't shoot at .6 Historically he's way lower than that. I do think Jrue is a good comparison to Dejonte and I actually think Dejonte is an overall better player than him. He shoots worse but he's as good defensively with more steals, a better rebounder, and a better passer. If Dejonte elevated his TS to Jrue's level, he would not be Top 5, but he'd be in the top 15 or so.

[DAF86]

Jrue doesn't shoot at .6 Historically he's way lower than that. I do think Jrue is a good comparison to Dejonte and I actually think Dejonte is an overall better player than him. He shoots worse but he's as good defensively with more steals, a better rebounder, and a better passer. If Dejonte elevated his TS to Jrue's level, he would not be Top 5, but he'd be in the top 15 or so.

He's shooting .574 which is around the .6 I talked about.

I would give my left nut to take all the rebounds Murray averages and give them to him in form of TS% decimals. He would be a beast and the Spurs a playoff team.

[DAF86]

No. The team is making use of the tools that it has. Murray is an elite rebounder and thus they likely scheme to put him in a position over others. However, if DJM was doing it just for stat purposes, he wouldn't be deferring.

if we look at on/off numbers, we can see the team rebounds better when Murray is on the court.

https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612759&PlayerId=1627749




DReb%
With Murray - .744
Wihout .709

OReb%

With Murray - .271
Wihout - .267

Murray shares his minutes with Poeltl. Also, it is obvious that Murray is an above rebounder for a PG. That doesn't mean he doesn't stat pad, tbh.

About the scheming thing, I just don't see it.

[DAF86]

But DJ is also a top defensive PG in virtually all aspects of that side of the ball, including *cough* rebounding.

Yeah, so?

[DAF86]

You guys are butthurt because I think Murray stat pads a bit? Ok, forget about it. :lol

Let's say he doesn't stat pad. My point is this: I don't value high volume PG rebounding. It isn't a vital tool for a team. So I don't care that he averages almost a triple double. I would prefer he'd be more efficient offensively. That's what I think keeps him from being a true all-star. He needs to take that TS% to, at least, a league average number. 19 ppg on 18 shots just doesn't cut it.

There. Can we all agree on that?

[spurraider21]

i agree that the rebounds arent something i get that excited about, generally (sometimes he does go and grab a great contested board, but the triple double numbers arent something i care too much about other than it being nice for him to get publicity)

the spurs are #24 in defensive rebound %, and #9 in offensive rebound percentage... and murray's doesnt really provide much impact with offensive rebounds (im sure there are highlights). he averages 1.3 ORB per game as opposed to 7.1 DRB... as opposed to poeltl who averages 4 ORB and 5 DRB, he actually provides a huge impact on the offensive glass

tl;dr... a vast majority of dejounte's rebounding is on the defensive side of the ball, where the spurs are at the bottom quartile of the league, so im not sure his rebounding numbers are really helping us win. the assists are much more encouraging

[DAF86]

He goes too little to the line for a 1st option. The one good thing our young guys could have copied from DeRozan.

[John B]

DJM is long and athletic. And he’s a PG who wants to push the ball. Naturally he will get the ball immediately including rebounding. I don’t have problem with DJM rebounding, and yes there would be times his teamsmates would let him grab one or two if he’s close to getting s triple-double. That’s what teammates do.

What I have problem is when he gambles too much for a steal and he gets burn. I think that happened last night with his guy eventually going for uncontested layup. I don’t mind cohercing and getting a steal or turnover. But there are times better defense demands to just stay in front and prevent them from scoring.

[KobesAchilles]

Who the fuck else is going to rebound if Murray doesn’t? McBuckets? White? KBD? KJ as an undersized 4? Like seriously besides Poeltl who is this big rebounding machine out there that crashes the boards and helps out on that end? The only reason why he has that many rebounds isn’t bc he’s stat padding it’s bc our PF is like 6’4 or a end of the bench player like KBD

[KobesAchilles]

DJ is tied for 26th in the league in scoring BUT he does have some concerning stats imo
He’s 99th in the league at FTA per game
127th in the league at made 3pointers per game

There is still a lot of room to grow and I hope makes those next steps.

[r0drig0lac]

My point is this: I don't value high volume PG rebounding. ok

[XDT76]

DJM actually leads the team in Deffered Rebound Chances per game. He along with Jakob both average 1.3 differed rebounds per game. Thats the exact opposite of what you would see if he was stat chasing. Honestly that one stat should put all this to bed.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=REB_CHANCE_DEFER&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

This is what I wanna post too. Looking at the rest of the Spurs all average lower than 1 meaning no one really "snatch" their rebound.

[Drom John]

I haven't seen enough games to justify the following, but in my impression
Murray seems to get the stats by playing the game: scores, but is not a gunner; rebounds, but doesn't chase rebounds; assists but doesn't chase assists.
Westbrook is a stat chaser and triple double scoreboard watcher. When Westbrook is at 9 late in the game, Westbrook tries for 10.
If Murray did that, Pop would bench him.
As far as I can tell, Murray plays the end of the 4th without regard to whats needed for the double/triple double.

I also believe Pop mentioned in pre-season that Murray might rebound more to quicken the pace. Westbrook's aggressive rebounding early in his career was designed for fast breaks.

[JeffDuncan]

Who the fuck else is going to rebound if Murray doesn’t? …


In many cases, the other team.

This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.

[Dex]

In many cases, the other team.

This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.

Especially since the Spurs are one of the teams who relies on gang rebounding more than most, and due to that we are top 5 in rebounding currently.

Pop has always placed a focus on rebounding, and even though Poeltl is good on the boards, he can't do it all by himself.

[KingKev]

In many cases, the other team.

This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.

We’ve had our disagreements in the past but amen sir.

[Atl Spur]

We’ve had our disagreements in the past but amen sir.

I too agree

[KobesAchilles]

In many cases, the other team.

This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.
On top of that the dude is acting like we are playing in 2014 or some shit where we had size and length at every position except PG. We had Tiago, Duncan, Kawhi, and Green. If Murray was averaging 8 a game with those mfers playing then I could see his point to a degree. But we are undersized at so many positions that it's ridiculous. Murray NEEDS to be a rebounder bc nobody else on the team except Jak is one or has the capability to be one

[DAF86]

ok

You shouldn't either, tbh. It really isn't a difference maker.

[DAF86]

In many cases, the other team.

This whole bit about Murray and rebounding is one of the stupidest discussions that has ever occurred on this forum. And it’s a forum that’s seen a lot of stupid discussions.

Guys, if a player has any chance for a rebound it is his JOB to grab the dam thing, if he can. Geez. Anybody who imagines otherwise is just a clueless dipstick who is not to be taken seriously.

That's not what the numbers suggest, tbh.

[DAF86]

I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like. :lol

Bunch of babies, tbh. :lol

[Dejounte]

Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

[KingKev]

Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

Mic drop

[DAF86]

Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

This topic has been discussed before in this forum and everybody was on the same page. Now that a Spur is involved, everybody changed their tune. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like. :lol

Bunch of babies, tbh. :lol

Westbrook does things way differently regarding rebounds. Thats actually why I'm annoyed you're trying to compare the two. Are you not aware of the shit Westbrook pulled to get his numbers with OKC?

[MannyIsGod]

To be clear, Westbrook got his teammates to actively give him rebounds so he could get triple doubles.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/4/12/17227588/russell-westbrook-triple-double-okc-playoffs

His rebounding rate also went up when he was close to double digits.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2017/06/is-westbrook-stat-stuffing/

This list of shit goes on.


This is what you're saying Murray is doing. Its not true, which is why you're alone dying on this weird ass hill.

[MannyIsGod]

https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/is-russell-westbrook-padding-his-rebounding-stats-by-leaving-his-defender-stats-say-he-is-01dmny0ph0z4

[XDT76]

For a stat padder it's weird that DjM did not chase for his 10th rebound.

[KingKev]

For a stat padder it's weird that DjM did not chase for his 10th rebound.

He obviously realized DAF86 was on to him and is trying to disprove his brilliant hypothesis.

[Chinook]

As I've mentioned in other contexts, rebounding on/offs are one of the better ways to examine how much a player affects his team's rebounding. If Murray were taking rebounds from his teammates, it's likely the team wouldn't rebound any worse with him off the court. If he were needed to get the rebounds, then the team would rebound way better with him on the court than off.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/on-off/2022

The numbers suggests there's a real difference with Murray on the court. The Spurs lose the rebound battle either way, but Murray replacing some bench PG makes them much closer to neutral. Likely without him, the Spurs would lose the rebound battle even more. As a side note, there are players who affect the team's rebounding more than Murray. That's not a knock on him, but I've read folks trying to shit on KBD and Johnson as folks who are bad rebounders. That's fundamentally untrue. They're both great rebounders, and together, they combine to give the Spurs a strong advantage over their opponents. Maybe those guys would get more boards without DeJounte there. Maybe they're excellent at boxing out their guys and doing their parts. But they aren't the ones people should look at.

My eye-test read of Murray is that he just wants things more than most guys on the court. He isn't trying to call his own number all the time, but he's more willing to try to score rather than defer. He isn't stealing rebounds from his teammates, but he is moving more aggressively than they are. That might come as a detriment if he's not boxing out as part of that process. Some stats to suggests that his match-ups have good rebounding success when he's on the court. But overall, I don't think he's doing anything beyond trying to will his team to wins. Westbrook, for all the shit he gets, was basically trying to do that in his first season alone in OKC. Later, his triple-doubles lost worth, and he's had the same obvious holes in his game forever. I think DJM is a more effective player, but I don't think considering the similarities between them an insult.

Overall, I do think it can be unhelpful to put too much emphasis on rebounding from the PG position. Just like assists from a center, it's a nice bonus that has to be underpinned by good play in the more important metrics. DeJounte's scoring inefficiency is a legit concern that isn't completely explained by his low FTAs. His EFG% (not TS%) is also bad, and that indicates he's not very efficient at the shots he does take. All of the Spurs' guards struggle in that regard, actually. It's probably the thing holding the team back the most right now. It seems a lot of his stat increase have come from him holding the ball even more, though him increasing his AST:TO shows he's also improved as a passer. I think DJM has objectively been a much improved player this year and should be one of the MIP front-runners. But I also think he's farther away from an All-Star bid than folks here and in Spurs media like to project.

[duncan2k5]

In this era where bigs are pulled out to the 3 point line, guard rebounding is necessary

[couchman]

DJM's rebounding seems like a nice plus for the team, but not a giant difference-maker. I am not wasting too much time thinking about it.
My eye-test doesn't indicate that he is sacrificing other things in the game for rebounds and is often helpful on contested rebounds.

I'm thrilled with DJM's improvement as a passer and ball handler and that is where he is having the most impact.
On a team with a true superstar scorer DJM would be a great supporting player and make that a dangerous team.

I'm hoping that next season we see his scoring ability take a similar leap forward.
He is not a go to guy yet despite being our leading scorer. We really don't have one at the moment.

[Dirks_Finale]

I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like. :lol

Bunch of babies, tbh. :lol

Top 5 team in the west :lol

[XDT76]

This topic has been discussed before in this forum and everybody was on the same page. Now that a Spur is involved, everybody changed their tune. :lol

Nobody really change their tune, personally I would still prefer for DjM to expand his energy on attacking and clutch time. Thus I have always stick to the idea of us requiring a proper PF. The issue of people here is that you brand DjM as a stat padder just becos he has triple doubles. If you look at the players he played with Poeltl, McD and Johnson are not getting lesser rebounds. If you look at Poeltl and McD history including those on other teams you will see that they are on their career average. For the starting team, as McD is a weak rebounder, someone has to step up to cover hm. It's either DjM or DW which both are guards.

[John B]

Top 5 team in the west :lol

I have a feeling they will be next season

[rjv]

Usually when you’re alone on an island with your opinion—you’re the dumbass, not everyone else.

:lobt2:

[Dirks_Finale]

I have a feeling they will be next season

They have some nice pieces. I could see them flipping some of them for another star to go with Murray and becoming a top 5 team next year. Just not there now, not even close, imo.

[John B]

They have some nice pieces. I could see them flipping some of them for another star to go with Murray and becoming a top 5 team next year. Just not there now, not even close, imo.

Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh

[itzsoweezee]

Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh

This might be the most delusional tale I’ve seen in quite some time.

[KingKev]

Like I said, next season. Spurs are only out of the playoffs for 3rd season after losing its Big 3 and niephew. Spurs have replaced every position with young athletic players, including budding star Murray. Devin and Primo could be very good pieces, likewise Collins if his legs hold up. A big cap and plenty of assets, the Spurs are primed to make a big swing for a tier 1 player come trade deadline or next Summer. Future is bright bruh

Keep dreaming sir. What tier 1 player are we getting at the deadline? Are you prepared to give up multiple firsts? White, Jak and Thad doesn’t even get you in the building for Ben Simmons let alone a tier 1 player. There are absolutely no tier 1 players in free agency who will even entertain us.

I respect your fandom man but your optimism is misplaced.

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1486063824788541441?s=21



LOL. Half of our roster is in the bottom left quadrant.

We are basically the San Antonio Toros.

[emanueldavidginobili]

https://twitter.com/nba_math/status/1486063824788541441?s=21



LOL. Half of our roster is in the bottom left quadrant.

We are basically the San Antonio Toros.

Lonnie, Keldon, and Doug lmao. McDermott robbing the Spurs what a terrible contract. DJ almost off the fucking graph :lol

[Chinook]

As I've said before, I do find TPA to be one of the worst stats out there. It sucks how visible and well-marketed it is, since it gets used way more than it should. That said, of course, a team that's only not in contention for worst record because a few clubs are openly tanking isn't going to grade well in any advanced stat. I think there are a couple of guys on that list that are maligned, and Murray's not THAT big of an outlier. But the general contour of the chart (Murray being the only good player on a team of mediocre or worse players) is still close to reality.

[KingKev]

As I've said before, I do find TPA to be one of the worst stats out there. It sucks how visible and well-marketed it is, since it gets used way more than it should. That said, of course, a team that's only not in contention for worst record because a few clubs are openly tanking isn't going to grade well in any advanced stat. I think there are a couple of guys on that list that are maligned, and Murray's not THAT big of an outlier. But the general contour of the chart (Murray being the only good player on a team of mediocre or worse players) is still close to reality.

I truthfully haven’t had had a chance to look at the math behind it and didn’t see a need because it definitely passes the eyes test in terms of relativity.

[Chinook]

I truthfully haven’t had had a chance to look at the math behind it and didn’t see a need because it definitely passes the eyes test in terms of relativity.

I wasn't throwing shade. TPA is arguably the most Twitter-friendly stat because of how simple the calculation is (it's literally BBRef's BPM x possessions/100), so it's easy to update, and the guys to made it have done a great job of making those graphs. It's dumb that the folks are using BBRef's work and taking credit for it like it's their own. It's even worse given that they don't even seem to understand the methodology behind the stats they're stealing. BPM is specifically not an aggregate stat. Taking an advanced stat that was explicitly created to control for possessions and multiplying it by possessions is fundamentally flawed and lazy. Rather than incorporating role and minutes like one might argue, it inflates big-minute players and diminishes role-players without speaking at all to roles outside of MPG. PER, for all of its flaws, is a better stat.

[PhantomDashCam]

A case for DJ as an all-star.

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/making-the-allstar-case-for-dejounte-murray (https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/making-the-allstar-case-for-dejounte-murray)


…As is the case with all great offensive initiators, Murray’s facilitation abilities augment the rest of his teammates. According to Cleaning the Glass, the Spurs as a team experience a 4% increase in Effective Field Goal percentage (https://cleaningtheglass.com/stats/player/2630/onoff#tab-team_shooting_fg)(93rd percentile) when Murray’s on the floor, despite he himself being a below-average shooter efficiency-wise.

[R. DeMurre]

KJ's rebounding is pretty average, but it's hard to overstate what a poor rebounder McDermott is. On a per minute basis, McDermott was just barely out-rebounding Bryn Forbes, and is behind Vassell, Trey Jones, White, and Walker. McDermott and KJ combine to average 8.6 rpg in a combined 55.4 mpg. Dejounte by himself averages 8.5 rpg in 34.4 mpg.

[KingKev]

I'm appalled by the lack of objectivity in this forum, tbh. If we were talking about Westbrook (or just guards in general), most folks (for not saying everybody) would be in the same page talking about how triple doubles are overrated and the relative importance of high volume rebounding guards. But since we are talking about a Spur player that everybody likes, you all jump like a bunch of pre schoolers blindly defending what you like. :lol

Bunch of babies, tbh. :lol

Mr Stat padder can’t even get triple doubles anymore. IG Baller.

[SAGirl]

I’d like to see him get noticed for MIP at least.

[KingKev]

I’d like to see him get noticed for MIP at least.

He is in the running with Ja and Bridges. Murray was quietly good last year though.

[SAGirl]

He is in the running with Ja and Bridges. Murray was quietly good last year though.
Different role, with more usage he’s genuinely been better. Ja has had a fantastic season though too and is popular. I had forgotten about him mostly because he was also pretty good last year… Bridges too.

I haven’t paid attention to awards this season tbh.

[MultiTroll]

Was Murray pining to get a 10th rebound tonight Westchuck style?

Didn't think so.

[KingKev]

Different role, with more usage he’s genuinely been better. Ja has had a fantastic season though too and is popular. I had forgotten about him mostly because he was also pretty good last year… Bridges too.

I haven’t paid attention to awards this season tbh.

Ja is must watch NBA TV for the world now but anyone that has watched 30 games of his
the last 2-3 yrs should have seen that coming. DJ isn’t far behind but Ja attacks the rim like AI.

Also, you should post more SAG. Smart mind!

[DAF86]

Mr Stat padder can’t even get triple doubles anymore. IG Baller.

Regardless of rebounds, DJ makes a real impact when he's effective offensively. When he scores more than 19 pts on 18 shots. That's it, that's all that matters.

[SAGirl]

Ja is must watch NBA TV for the world now but anyone that has watched 30 games of his
the last 2-3 yrs should have seen that coming. DJ isn’t far behind but Ja attacks the rim like AI.

Also, you should post more SAG. Smart mind!
Thanks I enjoy reading your opinions a lot and a few other guys here. I just have less time than I used to and I am more casual with the Spurs. When I posted frequently (and lengthy opinions) I watched pretty much every game so I was a lot more invested and I felt strongly one way or another about what was going on with the team.

Now I am more casual. I watch the occasional Spurs game and highlights so I don’t feel as strongly as others do and when there’s something I have noticed, obviously others have already noticed it before me, so I just use the like button instead of quoting others. I am more interested in what others who watch the team frequently are thinking.

Even though they are losing I think the team is in a good spot if they get lucky enough to draft THE GUY. If they don’t draft a guy with star potential I’d push them to focus on complementing Murray and try to add size to the team. They are too undersized and (poor shooting as someone else mentioned elsewhere brilliantly, better job than I did). I do like the Collins pursuit. I am afraid he won’t make a difference bc he’s not THE GUY but he might for this team bc he complements others well. Very interested in seeing their approach this summer bc for a rebuilding team they do have a few guys who are in their prime years that they may need to move anyways if the team isn’t going anywhere with current crew.

[emanueldavidginobili]

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[emanueldavidginobili]

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[RC_Drunkford]

Once a player starts breaking all kind of Spurs records, you know he‘s great

[XDT76]

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DjM is playing great but don't think this sequence is a good example, he nearly got strip and missed a fast break layup.

[KingKev]

DJ had nothing to say about missing out as an AS game reserve. No social
media sh!t, none of that. All you fellas calling him IG Baller over the years when he has been rock solid, both on and off the court should take note. He is ten toes down. Dray going to bat for DJ speaks volumes whether he gets in or not.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Draymond Green announced he's not playing because of injury and tweeted DJM should be his replacement. A number of other players are tweeting the same thing.

[MultiTroll]

Draymond Green announced he's not playing because of injury and tweeted DJM should be his replacement. A number of other players are tweeting the same thing.
Who selects injury replacements?

[MultiTroll]

Anthony Davis and the Laker scam machine about to go into effect? :rollin

[BatManu20]

Who selects injury replacements?

Adam Silver.

[emanueldavidginobili]

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