Report: Spurs set to bring over Livio Jean-Charles

[Chinook]

Rookies - Bertans, Murray, LJC, Forbes, Arcidiacono (5????)

I think five is a strong possibility, but I don't think the team makes it past January 10 with both Forbes and Arcidiacono on the team. Hell, they might both be gone.

[ceperez]

I think five is a strong possibility, but I don't think the team makes it past January 10 with both Forbes and Arcidiacono on the team. Hell, they might both be gone.

Actually, those two are decent signups. Both are mature players and seem to know their roles. The odds that both will be signed is very slim. I can see one of them being signed though. Not high odds, but decent odds.

[ulosturedge]

Austin Spurs forward. He needs some serious deprogramming.

That's pretty much whats gonna happen, but is 1 year off Austin development gonna get us anywhere. This guy's ceiling looks like Jeff Ayers right now.

[Solid D]

With whom did the Spurs replace Forcier?

[Solid D]

That's pretty much whats gonna happen, but is 1 year off Austin development gonna get us anywhere. This guy's ceiling looks like Jeff Ayers right now.

Good question. He needs serious player development.

[Chinook]

The odds that both will be signed is very slim.

They are already signed. This idea that players have to earn a regular-season contract in camp just needs to die. Everyone in camp is on a viable contract to play out at least that season.

[picnroll]

If Spurs can resurrect LJC it'll be the greatest resurrection since Christ.

[TD 21]

Let's hope he turns out to become Ibaka Lite.

Roster seems full now:

Gasol / Dedmon
Aldridge / Jean Charles
Leonard / Anderson / Bertans
Green / Ginobili / Simmons
Parker / Mills / Murray

Forbes, Arcidiacono both unguaranteed.

Lalanne stashed to China.

Spurs might bring in Ndoye to training camp.

But that's all folks.... something tells me that the Spurs might sign 2 vet. min. players during the season.

No, that's not it. They will sign a veteran power forward at some point; there's no chance they're going this thin among bigs and with five rookies, three of which are probably not NBA players nor good enough prospects to warrant roster spots.

The last spot will probably be left open, with Forbes battling a big for it. Whoever wins it, based on how they progress, as well as other lesser proven players/injuries, expect it to remain up for grabs until at least January 10th (the date when a decision on non-guaranteed contracts signed in the off season has to be made), if not the buyout period.

[MaNu4Tres]

They are already signed. This idea that players have to earn a regular-season contract in camp just needs to die. Everyone in camp is on a viable contract to play out at least that season.

Their deals are just like what Bryce Cottons' deal was 2 years ago. They'll be brought into camp, likely will be waived and then signed on with Austin Spurs for D League contract. Forbes has the best shot to stick with SA - and I think that has a less than 10% chance of happening.

[MaNu4Tres]

Not sure why some people still have Anderson slotted at SF. He'll be the back up PF and see most of his minutes there freeing up time for Bertans/ Simmons at the SF when Manu is playing. When Manu isn't playing, Simmons will play the 2 and Bertans will play the 3.

[Chinook]

Their deals are just like what Bryce Cottons' deal was 2 years ago. They'll be brought into camp, waived and then signed on with Austin Spurs for D League contract. Forbes is the one who has the best shot to stick with SA - and I think that has a 10% chance of happening.

I think the odds of one of them being on the roster on opening day is close to 100 percent. There just isn't an alternative, and the team can wait months before having to guarantee their deals for the year. Anyway, Cotton signed a regular deal just like anyone else, as you seem to know. He was waived and brought to Austin (as were Ndoye, Sykes and Washburn last year). But had he stayed on, it would have been under that two-year deal. You don't get a new contract, like # and Isaia Thomas suggested.

[Chinook]

Not sure why some people still have Anderson slotted at SF. He'll be the back up PF and see most of his minutes there freeing up time for Bertans/ Simmons at the SF when Manu is playing. When Manu isn't playing, Simmons will play the 2 and Bertans will play the 3.

People keep moving Anderson to the 3 because they "just don't like him" at the four. "Too small."

[MaNu4Tres]

I think the odds of one of them being on the roster on opening day is close to 100 percent. There just isn't an alternative, and the team can wait months before having to guarantee their deals for the year. Anyway, Cotton signed a regular deal just like anyone else, as you seem to know. He was waived and brought to Austin (as were Ndoye, Sykes and Washburn last year). But had he stayed on, it would have been under that two-year deal. You don't get a new contract, like # and Isaia Thomas suggested.

I disagree. I see a vet PF being brought in for the last spot and Forbes fighting an uphill battle to compete for that spot. Forbes will have to really play awesome to beat out the vet PF.

Im under the impression SA will keep a roster spot open all yr by the way. Especially with how ATL, and Twolves rosters are stacked with bigs.

[Chinook]

I disagree. I see a vet PF being brought in for the last spot and Forbes fighting an uphill battle to compete for that spot. Forbes will have to really play awesome to beat out the vet PF.

The Spurs have 13 guaranteed contracts. So even if another guy is brought in, there is an open spot for a seventh guard. It's not likely that the Spurs will sign two vets to take the final two spots. Hell, I think it's unlikely that they even want to.

[MaNu4Tres]

The Spurs have 13 guaranteed contracts. So even if another guy is brought in, there is an open spot for a seventh guard. It's not likely that the Spurs will sign two vets to take the final two spots. Hell, I think it's unlikely that they even want to.

I edited it already. I'm under the impression that SA will leave a spot open considering how ATL, and Minny are loaded at bigs and a buyout is inevitable. I just think SA will want to keep it open for flexibility throughout the yr. So that 14th spot, is the last spot for now -- at least in my eyes.

[ulosturedge]

If Spurs can resurrect LJC it'll be the greatest resurrection since Christ.

Lmao!

[Chinook]

I edited it already. I'm under the impression that SA will leave a spot open considering how ATL, and Minny are loaded at bigs and a buyout is inevitable. I just think SA will want to keep it open for flexibility throughout the yr. So that 14th spot, is the last spot for now -- at least in my eyes.

There's no reason to leave a spot open unless you need to save money. Guys like Forbes and Arcidiacono can be cut at any time. Why preemptively do so?

[T Park]

His jump shot form looks good just slow, his defense is decent and will get better.

Can be a fourth big in the rotation potentially. Which again, end of the first round to get a decent role player is always a win.

[Chinook]

Every time I try gain respect for PS, they pull some shit like this:

http://projectspurs.com/2016-articles/spurs-officially-sign-livio-jean-charles.html


Though the Spurs were about $11.2 million over the salary cap, the team was still able to sign Jean-Charles because he had a cap hold of $990,700 for being a former first round pick still on the rookie scale. The actual figures aren’t specifically known publicly just yet about how much and how long Jean-Charles’ deal is for, but even if it’s for $990,700 this season, the team would still be about $6.9 million below the luxury tax.

We know the length and range of salaries for his deal already. Rookie-scale contracts are really easy to calculate. Paul seems like a smart guy with the cap, but for someone who covers basketball for a living, there is some really obvious stuff he seems to miss in his articles.

[raybies]

Just remembered that he had team options on his final two years. So we're fine. A year to develop and a year to have a shot. If no bueno then he goes. He's at a cheap salary and I wouldn't be surprised if we signed him to a bit less than the 120%.

[TD 21]

Not sure why some people still have Anderson slotted at SF. He'll be the back up PF and see most of his minutes there freeing up time for Bertans/ Simmons at the SF when Manu is playing. When Manu isn't playing, Simmons will play the 2 and Bertans will play the 3.

It depends who it is, but there's a good chance yet to be signed veteran power forward will be competing with Simmons and Bertans for minutes.

There's no good reason to not fill the 15th spot. It'll only be a partially guaranteed contract (until January 10th), so they can easily cut it at any point up to that, if something better emerges or injuries necessitate it going to a different position.



I think the odds of one of them being on the roster on opening day is close to 100 percent. There just isn't an alternative, and the team can wait months before having to guarantee their deals for the year. Anyway, Cotton signed a regular deal just like anyone else, as you seem to know. He was waived and brought to Austin (as were Ndoye, Sykes and Washburn last year). But had he stayed on, it would have been under that two-year deal. You don't get a new contract, like # and Isaia Thomas suggested.

There's plenty of alternatives. They could just as easily sign any other random player to a partially guaranteed contract. The vast majority of the time, that isn't even an inside track to a roster spot.

Even just adding one more big (let's face it, even the best of the remaining options are fringe rotation types) would leave them with just 4 and 1/2 NBA bigs and 5 and 1/2 total ones.

On the other hand, there is a clear need for another knockdown three-point shooter, specifically on the wings.

I'd have to see the exact big(s) Forbes would be competing with first, but it's probably 50/50-ish.

[Chinook]

All right, who was this:


@Spursy_14 (https://twitter.com/Spursy_14)

@PaulGarciaPS (https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaPS) LJC's place is guaranteed?



2:19 PM - 22 Jul 2016

[tmtcsc]

Wait, if that's 15 then Bonner is not a Spur right?

[Chinook]

Wait, if that's 15 then Bonner is not a Spur right?

He'd definitely beat out one of the non-guaranteed guards.

[jyra]

We know the length and range of salaries for his deal already. Rookie-scale contracts are really easy to calculate. Paul seems like a smart guy with the cap, but for someone who covers basketball for a living, there is some really obvious stuff he seems to miss in his articles.

I think he might be thrown off by the fact that Livio is past that three year period after being drafted. But the fact the Spurs don't even have the cap space to sign him to a non rookie scale deal should be enough of a giveaway.

[Chinook]

I think he might be thrown off by the fact that Livio is past that three year period after being drafted. But the fact the Spurs don't even have the cap space to sign him to a non rookie scale deal should be enough of a giveaway.

Maybe he thinks the Spurs renounced him and gave him a two-year min deal.

[jyra]

Maybe he thinks the Spurs renounced him and gave him a two-year min deal.

Has that ever happened before with a first round pick?

[Russo21]

He looks shit, tbh

[Chinook]

Has that ever happened before with a first round pick?

I am extremely confident that it hasn't, but we'll see what objective says. It would be bitch-to the Nth degree.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's no reason to leave a spot open unless you need to save money. Guys like Forbes and Arcidiacono can be cut at any time. Why preemptively do so?



It depends who it is, but there's a good chance yet to be signed veteran power forward will be competing with Simmons and Bertans for minutes.

There's no good reason to not fill the 15th spot. It'll only be a partially guaranteed contract (until January 10th), so they can easily cut it at any point up to that, if something better emerges or injuries necessitate it going to a different position.


Spurs would be better off waiving them and keeping a spot open -- especially if they have below average performances in pre season( which is expected and the likely scenario). In this likely scenario, another team will have a few days to pick them up btw the time theyre waived and the time SA can have their rights for the entire year in Austin. Its a safe gamble to waive them and pick up their rights for the year, instead of signing one to start the season and having to waive him for a better player in the middle of season-- which if it happens, SA would be losing their rights to them and throws all the development perspective out the window for these undrafted FAs.


The incentives to waiving vs signing is it keeps roster flexibility. It also allows SA to take a longer look and gives the them more time to develop the players in Austin, and it does save them money ( but its irrelevant money).

Forbes & Archie and their agents know they are likely D League players this yr, that's why they were so quick to sign these 75k guaranteed camp deals and not waiting out for a better deal. The likely hood of another team coming in at the end of pre season is very small. The time between the draft and the start of the season won't change other teams perspectives that much -- if at all. These are undrafted FAs we are talking about. Ones that were not offered guaranteed deals like Gary Payton II.

[Raven]

it's clear that we're rebuilding

[r0drig0lac]

If Spurs can resurrect LJC it'll be the greatest resurrection since Christ.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[ceperez]

People keep moving Anderson to the 3 because they "just don't like him" at the four. "Too small."

Anderson only has the advantage if the opposing player is small than him. So he's 6'9", but he's effective only when the opposing player is 6'5". I don't think he can handle guys as big as say Leonard at 6'7".

[cd021]

it's clear that we're rebuilding

I wouldn't call it a rebuild, I think there is a good chance this team wins 57 games and finishes second in the West. Its not a title contending team when compared to GSW but it should still be a top 3 or 4 team in the NBA.

The Spurs have added youth to the bench with Anderson, Simmons (not really that young but you get the point) Murray, LJC, Bertans, and possibly Forbes. They are essentially developing rookies/young players while still being competitive I wouldn't consider it a rebuild more like a retooling.

[DJR210]

Looking forward to watching him average 1.9 ppg and 0.8 rpg this year

[cd021]

Anderson only has the advantage if the opposing player is small than him. So he's 6'9", but he's effective only when the opposing player is 6'5". I don't think he can handle guys as big as say Leonard at 6'7".

If he's the backup 4, he shouldn't have to worry about guys being but so much bigger than him. Quite a few backup 4's are 6'10 and under (like Diaw and West for example). His length should come in handy on defense and hopefully he can improve his outside shooting to become more of a stretch four with ball handling and play making capabilities.

[timtonymanu]

Better than Kevin Martin.

That's not such a high standard to set. :lol

[CGD]

Well he's really the only big we have now who is mobile enough to cover the pick and roll. I can see him getting some burn.

[ceperez]

If he's the backup 4, he shouldn't have to worry about guys being but so much bigger than him. Quite a few backup 4's are 6'10 and under (like Diaw and West for example). His length should come in handy on defense and hopefully he can improve his outside shooting to become more of a stretch four with ball handling and play making capabilities.

I don't think he has a prayer guarding Diaw.

[Chinook]

Anderson only has the advantage if the opposing player is small than him. So he's 6'9", but he's effective only when the opposing player is 6'5". I don't think he can handle guys as big as say Leonard at 6'7".

Most bigs don't have guard skills or know how to defend perimeter players. That's his advantage over traditional bigs. A high-post game is not the same as a low-post game.

[Chinook]

I don't think he has a prayer guarding Diaw.

Depends on which Diaw shows up. Last year's version wasn't a threat.

[Chinook]

Well he's really the only big we have now who is mobile enough to cover the pick and roll. I can see him getting some burn.

I guess I missed the news of Dedmon being cut.

[tholdren]

I wouldn't call it a rebuild, I think there is a good chance this team wins 57 games and finishes second in the West. Its not a title contending team when compared to GSW but it should still be a top 3 or 4 team in the NBA.

The Spurs have added youth to the bench with Anderson, Simmons (not really that young but you get the point) Murray, LJC, Bertans, and possibly Forbes. They are essentially developing rookies/young players while still being competitive I wouldn't consider it a rebuild more like a retooling.

I don't see why SA can't contend other than shitty front court depth, or a backup pg. West and Diaw leaving was great for business. Need to trade Kyle Anderson probably - he averaged less ppg than Kevin Martin last year and was the second worst spur in the playoffs (Martin wins the award).

[ceperez]

Most bigs don't have guard skills or know how to defend perimeter players. That's his advantage over traditional bigs. A high-post game is not the same as a low-post game.

Ok... I agree... yes... he has an advantage over a big if he's out there in the wings.

[Chinook]

Ok... I agree... yes... he has an advantage over a big if he's out there in the wings.

Doesn't need to be that far. Can do his work from the high-post/triple-threat position.

[Ditty]

His jump shot form looks good just slow, his defense is decent and will get better.

Can be a fourth big in the rotation potentially. Which again, end of the first round to get a decent role player is always a win.

He has NBA level athleticism, and some of his issues are correctable. He was raved before he got drafted how great of a worth ethic / willing to learn he had from what I remember. He's only 22 for christ sake, and would've just been graduating a few months ago if he was in college :lol. I could understand if he was already 25/26 years old already in his prime.

I don't get why people are so down on us picking him, when the 2013 draft was so bad from top to bottom :lol. He tore up the US select team during the Nike Hoop Summit, so he has some type of talent.

[SAGirl]

He has NBA level athleticism, and some of his issues are correctable. He was raved before he got drafted how great of a worth ethic / willing to learn he had from what I remember. He's only 22 for christ sake, and would've just been graduating a few months ago if he was in college :lol. I could understand if he was already 25/26 years old already in his prime.

I don't get why people are so down on us picking him, when the 2013 draft was so bad from top to bottom :lol. He tore up the US select team during the Nike Hoop Summit, so he has some type of talent.
I think the issue is that he really hasn't developed. But he will get a chance to do that this season.

[ace3g]

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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/724228871894228992/qmlf-Rlj_bigger.jpgDavis BertansVerified account‏@DBertans_42 (https://twitter.com/DBertans_42)

Congrats to my good friend @Jclifio (https://twitter.com/Jclifio) for joining the @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs) family as well... Well deserved!! #SpursFamily (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpursFamily?src=hash)

[SAGirl]

756619192304971776
The most interesting parts of the article:

“He’s had a lot of growth since last year,” said Spurs assistant Becky Hammon, who coached Jean-Charles in each of the past two Las Vegas summer leagues. “He’s an athletic ‘four.’ We expect him to play great defense and grab a lot of boards.”
By his own admission, Jean-Charles won’t be of much help as a scorer.
“If I get points, I get points,” said Jean-Charles, who hails from Cayenne in French Guiana. “But that’s not my priority.”
Likewise, the Spurs’ immediate goals for Jean-Charles at the offensive end are modest. They are hopeful he can improve his jump shot enough to extend to the 17-foot range.
“That’s a shot he needs to be able to knock down,” Hammon said.
756615954155474944

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_87HC_Ki06Y

[ceperez]

He has NBA level athleticism, and some of his issues are correctable. He was raved before he got drafted how great of a worth ethic / willing to learn he had from what I remember. He's only 22 for christ sake, and would've just been graduating a few months ago if he was in college :lol. I could understand if he was already 25/26 years old already in his prime.

I don't get why people are so down on us picking him, when the 2013 draft was so bad from top to bottom :lol. He tore up the US select team during the Nike Hoop Summit, so he has some type of talent.

True that he was the best player in the Nike Hoop summit. I cannot explain though that after 3 years in ASVEL, he made barely an impact.

On the other hand, maybe Spurs just need role players and not superstars.

[ceperez]

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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/724228871894228992/qmlf-Rlj_bigger.jpgDavis BertansVerified account‏@DBertans_42 (https://twitter.com/DBertans_42)

Congrats to my good friend @Jclifio (https://twitter.com/Jclifio) for joining the @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs) family as well... Well deserved!! #SpursFamily (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpursFamily?src=hash)


They apparently know each other?

[ceperez]

756619192304971776
The most interesting parts of the article:

756615954155474944

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_87HC_Ki06Y

He's got good fundamental defense, keeps his hands straight up. Also has long arms and a elite level quickness to block shots. If anything that is elite about LJC, is his quickness in jumping. That is going to surprise a lot of people.

[Raven]

I wouldn't call it a rebuild, I think there is a good chance this team wins 57 games and finishes second in the West. Its not a title contending team when compared to GSW but it should still be a top 3 or 4 team in the NBA.

The Spurs have added youth to the bench with Anderson, Simmons (not really that young but you get the point) Murray, LJC, Bertans, and possibly Forbes. They are essentially developing rookies/young players while still being competitive I wouldn't consider it a rebuild more like a retooling.

I don't think that is considered a retooling

[dbestpro]

He will spend the season in Austin. Won't ever see more than what he's going to get now, unless he can turn into a Rodman type player. This is the year the Spurs get their books straight.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_87HC_Ki06Y

Dude's really improved. He was dog sh** last summer league.

[SpursFan86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_87HC_Ki06Y

Dude's really improved. He was dog sh** last summer league.

...those are highlights from last year's SL :lol

[tholdren]

he's worse than deshaun thomas

[CGD]

I guess I missed the news of Dedmon being cut.

Truth, forgot about that guy! In any event, should help the PnR defense when Dedmon picks up 3 early 1st half fouls.

[CGD]

Becky's quote about his future role was spot on. I think we are being unfair to him expecting him to be some high volume scorer in SL.

Based on the draft scouting he seems to have all the tools and bbiq to be a good defender, and hopefully he can regain that nice shot. It's going to be mental for him.

[ceperez]

Becky's quote about his future role was spot on. I think we are being unfair to him expecting him to be some high volume scorer in SL.

Based on the draft scouting he seems to have all the tools and bbiq to be a good defender, and hopefully he can regain that nice shot. It's going to be mental for him.

He only knows how to be a role player. He's been a role player in France his entire pro-career.

Maybe he did not do well in summer league, but maybe he needs to know the system to do well.

[dbestpro]

He only knows how to be a role player. He's been a role player in France his entire pro-career.

Maybe he did not do well in summer league, but maybe he needs to know the system to do well.

Role players in the NBA are not always easy to find. He needs to become rebounding machine through speed, and he could make a nice career for himself.

[Joseph Kony]

I don't think that is considered a retooling

Spurs have virtually the same starting lineup, same coach, and four of the main bench guys will be the same as last season. I hardly call that "rebuilding." look around the league at the rebuilding teams and it's pretty clear spurs are retooling around Kawhi/LMA

[Solid D]

He only knows how to be a role player. He's been a role player in France his entire pro-career.

Maybe he did not do well in summer league, but maybe he needs to know the system to do well.

I thought ASVEL ran something similar to the Spurs' system and the Spurs' SL team runs some basic things from the Spurs' system. Is that not so?

[Snaq O'Meal]

I thought ASVEL ran something similar to the Spurs' system and the Spurs' SL team runs some basic things from the Spurs' system. Is that not so?

That's correct.

But it's a different thing to develop a player's fundamentals, and that may be lacking at ASVEL. LJC clearly regressed during his time there.

[jyra]

756906766315708417

#StashBrothers :tu

[kobyz]

2016 Summer League stats (3 games, 17MPG):
4.0ppg, 1.7rpg, 1.0apg, 1.0spg, 0.7bpg, 2.3TO

2016 Euro stats (25 games, 21.2MPG):
5.9ppg, 4.6rpg, 0.9apg, 0.4spg, 0.5bpg, 1.0TO
Those numbers in France are rather solid consider it was on a title team...

[Solid D]

That's correct.

But it's a different thing to develop a player's fundamentals, and that may be lacking at ASVEL. LJC clearly regressed during his time there.

I absolutely agree with you there.

[T Park]

He has NBA level athleticism, and some of his issues are correctable. He was raved before he got drafted how great of a worth ethic / willing to learn he had from what I remember. He's only 22 for christ sake, and would've just been graduating a few months ago if he was in college :lol. I could understand if he was already 25/26 years old already in his prime.

I don't get why people are so down on us picking him, when the 2013 draft was so bad from top to bottom :lol. He tore up the US select team during the Nike Hoop Summit, so he has some type of talent.


Because people look at box scores and immediately cry "sucks"

Its so goddamn tired

[daslicer]

If he can become a solid role player this will a good pick.

[T Park]

I thought ASVEL ran something similar to the Spurs' system and the Spurs' SL team runs some basic things from the Spurs' system. Is that not so?

They do, hes 22. Hes progressed in some areas, not progressed in others.

Is what it is. You put him in Asvel so when the time is right the buyout or lack of one doesnt hinder your summer.

Development in France was secondary but not forgotten, he was given playing time, and most likely didnt face the stiffest of competition. His defense is already close to NBA level, and in a year or two could be shut down, and would be perfect for today's NBA.

[CGD]

756906766315708417

#StashBrothers :tu

This Bertans kid has a good personality. Seems like a good kid. Rooting for him.

[Atl Spur]

You would be surprised how a different environment and culture can elevate a person in MANY ways! Lets just see what LJC grows in to :)

[DPG21920]

Because people look at box scores and immediately cry "sucks"

Its so goddamn tired

It's not just because of the box score. If you have watched him at all, he has not made many improvements. The biggest issue is that he tore his knee up. That was after the Nike summit and SA drafted him and that more than anything has seemingly stripped him of his upside unfortunately.

[Ocotillo]

I am rooting for this guy. Him, Bertans, Anderson, Simmons and Dedmon, someone is really going to need to take a major step forward this season.

[exstatic]

I don't think that is considered a retooling

We have TWO All Stars who were also All NBA players, a higher bar to clear. It's not a fucking rebuild.

[Ron Swanson]

"Stash Brothers" is hilarious. :lol

[Chinook]

We have TWO All Stars who were also All NBA players, a higher bar to clear. It's not a fucking rebuild.

Less roster turnover than GS.

[ceperez]

This Bertans kid has a good personality. Seems like a good kid. Rooting for him.

That' a good one... the Stash brothers. Hope it sticks! Bertans & Jean Charles.

[tholdren]

Because people look at box scores and immediately cry "sucks"

Its so goddamn tired
same goes for the stats assholes when you say someone sucks and they try to give you stats over eye test. it goes both ways.

[BillMc]

Spurs have virtually the same starting lineup, same coach, and four of the main bench guys will be the same as last season. I hardly call that "rebuilding." look around the league at the rebuilding teams and it's pretty clear spurs are retooling around Kawhi/LMA

This.

We're a top 2 to top 4 team in this league. Anything can happen. These are retooling years. Spursfans haven't seen a true rebuild in 20+ years.

[BillMc]

756906766315708417

#StashBrothers :tu
:lol

[BillMc]

I don't see why SA can't contend other than shitty front court depth, or a backup pg. West and Diaw leaving was great for business. Need to trade Kyle Anderson probably - he averaged less ppg than Kevin Martin last year and was the second worst spur in the playoffs (Martin wins the award).

We are contending. Yes, GS is favored, and yes, the Cavs are the champs, but we're in the mix even with this present roster. There's just a few posters who believe we're out because 1) Our bench is getting more youthful 2) Durant is now a dub and 3) they enjoy "sky is falling" narratives because it gives them a chance to bash PATFO or aging players.

Would be surprised if we don't ring once in the next 3 years. And it could happen next year for all we know. Who really thought the Cavs would be champs when Dubs, Spurs and OKC (and even Clips) looked so good at times last season? Things happen...

[cd021]

We are contending. Yes, GS is favored, and yes, the Cavs are the champs, but we're in the mix even with this present roster. There's just a few posters who believe we're out because 1) Our bench is getting more youthful 2) Durant is now a dub and 3) they enjoy "sky is falling" narratives because it gives them a chance to bash PATFO or aging players.

Would be surprised if we don't ring once in the next 3 years. And it could happen next year for all we know. Who really thought the Cavs would be champs when Dubs, Spurs and OKC (and even Clips) looked so good at times last season? Things happen...


I could see this team beating the Cavs in a 7 game series but GSW is a bit much to ask.

Its not so much us defending them as our ability to score against them. LMA, Kawhi, and Parker would have to combine for around 65 ppg in order for us to crack 100 ppg. Gasol is the 3rd or 4th best offensive player on the team but probably won't be able to stay on the floor for more than 20 mpg and who knows how Green and Manu will play.

[Spurtacular]

...those are highlights from last year's SL :lol

Well, I was gonna add that highlights can cover up bad games. In any event, I watch most or all of the Spurs SL action last summer (not as much this summer, btw); and he really sucked.

[ElNono]

He's a Spur now, hope he does well. Not gonna lie, don't have much expectations, but I'll certainly hope to be surprised by him.

[Snaq O'Meal]

I hope he now gets proper development to help him realize his full potential.

[exstatic]

This.

We're a top 2 to top 4 team in this league. Anything can happen. These are retooling years. Spursfans haven't seen a true rebuild in 20+ years.

We haven't really had a rebuild since 87-89, the death of the ABA/early NBA teams of Ice, Si, Mitch, Kenon, Train. It's closer to 30 years than 20.

[boutons_deux]

Pop said the 02/03 was suppoed to be a rebuilding year.

[TrainOfThought5]

Pop said the 02/03 was suppoed to be a rebuilding year.

They said 2012 was supposed to be a rebuilding year.

[HankChinaski]

The player development staff have their work set with him. But I think a full training camp and the conditioning staff working with him through the season can really provide a telling sign of his potential come February/March

[T Park]

It's not just because of the box score. If you have watched him at all, he has not made many improvements. The biggest issue is that he tore his knee up. That was after the Nike summit and SA drafted him and that more than anything has seemingly stripped him of his upside unfortunately.

*rolleyes

[T Park]

same goes for the stats assholes when you say someone sucks and they try to give you stats over eye test. it goes both ways.

uh no not how it works.

[UZER]

This Bertans kid has a good personality. Seems like a good kid. Rooting for him.

Hmm...red head, good personality?

So even if he sucks, he's guaranteed a roster spot for at least 10 years.

[DPG21920]

*rolleyes

I don't understand why stating a fact would elicit a roll eyes? He tore his knee up and it has hurt his ability as a player. It's not a knock on the guy; it's a fact.

That doesn't mean he's guaranteed to suck, but all you can evaluate currently is what he has done and since he tore his knee up he has not looked like an NBA player

[Mr. Body]

Well, we should remain competitive at the Summer League level.

[BillMc]

Hmm...red head, good personality?

So even if he sucks, he's guaranteed a roster spot for at least 10 years.
:lol

[tholdren]

uh no not how it works.
actually - it's exactly how it works.

[Joseph Kony]

uh no not how it works.

pretentious fat fuck still can't talk ball for shit after all these years :lmao

[Obstructed_View]

...those are highlights from last year's SL :lol

Yeah, I was wondering where Dairus Bertans came from. :lol

And it's sad that LJC looked a lot better last year.

[spurs10]

We are contending. Yes, GS is favored, and yes, the Cavs are the champs, but we're in the mix even with this present roster. There's just a few posters who believe we're out because 1) Our bench is getting more youthful 2) Durant is now a dub and 3) they enjoy "sky is falling" narratives because it gives them a chance to bash PATFO or aging players.

Would be surprised if we don't ring once in the next 3 years. And it could happen next year for all we know. Who really thought the Cavs would be champs when Dubs, Spurs and OKC (and even Clips) looked so good at times last season? Things happen... I'm looking forward to this next season greatly. If any of the young people being added can make a contribution it will be fun to watch. We don't have much depth at the 5, but LJC and Bertans give us some bench support behind LMA and Kawhi- albeit third string. Same with Murray. That's what we have Austin for. I still think our starting line-up- if Tony and Green can make some shots :wow- is pretty formidable. Anyway all the 'sky is falling' talk is ridiculous.
:flag:

[BillMc]

I'm looking forward to this next season greatly. If any of the young people being added can make a contribution it will be fun to watch. We don't have much depth at the 5, but LJC and Bertans give us some bench support behind LMA and Kawhi- albeit third string. Same with Murray. That's what we have Austin for. I still think our starting line-up- if Tony and Green can make some shots :wow- is pretty formidable. Anyway all the 'sky is falling' talk is ridiculous.
:flag:

Agreed. :toast Spurs fans seemed to think "contending" means "heavily, heavily favored to win the title." As long as you have a realistic chance then you're a contender, which the Spurs as one of the top 3 or 4 teams most definitely are.

I'm biased because of my Latvian connections, but I really think that Bertans is going to good for us. Also, I'm not sure really how Golden State can stop a Pau /LMA front line if Pop has the nerve to stay big.

Should be an interesting year.

[T Park]

pretentious fat fuck still can't talk ball for shit after all these years :lmao

tough guy hiding behind a fake name talks shit and i yawn as always.

Keep being Mr keyboard gangsta chico

[Joseph Kony]

tough guy hiding behind a fake name talks shit and i yawn as always.

Keep being Mr keyboard gangsta chico

T Park is your real name? :lmao

probably yawning from your cholesterol filled veins not circulating enough blood tbh.. :lol

[Spur-Addict]

T Park is your real name? :lmao

probably yawning from your cholesterol filled veins not circulating enough blood tbh.. :lol

:lol

[TrainOfThought5]

Agreed. :toast Spurs fans seemed to think "contending" means "heavily, heavily favored to win the title." As long as you have a realistic chance then you're a contender, which the Spurs as one of the top 3 or 4 teams most definitely are.

I'm biased because of my Latvian connections, but I really think that Bertans is going to good for us. Also, I'm not sure really how Golden State can stop a Pau /LMA front line if Pop has the nerve to stay big.

Should be an interesting year.

Im guilty.

[spurs10]

Agreed. :toast Spurs fans seemed to think "contending" means "heavily, heavily favored to win the title." As long as you have a realistic chance then you're a contender, which the Spurs as one of the top 3 or 4 teams most definitely are.

I'm biased because of my Latvian connections, but I really think that Bertans is going to good for us. Also, I'm not sure really how Golden State can stop a Pau /LMA front line if Pop has the nerve to stay big.

Should be an interesting year. It will be indeed! With no Latvian bias :lol Bertans is the one I'm most looking forward to! The kid can shoot- just what we need. I also concur we need to take advantage of our potentially formidable frontline of LMA and Pau. Good on the FO bringing Gasol in to replace the GOAT!

[Dingle Barry]

T Park is your real name? :lmao

probably yawning from your cholesterol filled veins not circulating enough blood tbh.. :lol

Joseph Kony with no regard for :lolbese human life

[timtonymanu]

T Park is your real name? :lmao

probably yawning from your cholesterol filled veins not circulating enough blood tbh.. :lol

:lmao watch this fat fuck go into hiding, then come back two weeks later saying :cry this forum sucks

[T Park]

T Park is your real name? :lmao



probably yawning from your cholesterol filled veins not circulating enough blood tbh.. :lol


Yawning from you boring me. Patch up the holds in the basement kiddo. They make Leake on your head.

[Chinook]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

Looks like LJC got the full 120 of the rookie scale. So either he won the blinking contest with the Spurs, or there was another reason for the hold up.


Or that BB Insiders is just assuming the 120 and it's really less than that.

[BillMc]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

Looks like LJC got the full 120 of the rookie scale. So either he won the blinking contest with the Spurs, or there was another reason for the hold up.


Or that BB Insiders is just assuming the 120 and it's really less than that.

What leverage would he have to get the 120? Or is the FO just being kind?

[ceperez]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

Looks like LJC got the full 120 of the rookie scale. So either he won the blinking contest with the Spurs, or there was another reason for the hold up.


Or that BB Insiders is just assuming the 120 and it's really less than that.

Spurs must see something that a majority of this forum does not see.

Anyway, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. Besides, he's shown glimpses of elite athleticism. In fact, he could be the most athletic player in the roster.

[Chinook]

What leverage would he have to get the 120? Or is the FO just being kind?

As I have mentioned to others, literally 99 percent of all rookies get the full 120 percent. The Spurs not giving it to him would be seen as shameful.

[ceperez]

As I have mentioned to others, literally 99 percent of all rookies get the full 120 percent. The Spurs not giving it to him would be seen as shameful.

Were the Spurs obligated to pick up his salary?

[BillMc]

As I have mentioned to others, literally 99 percent of all rookies get the full 120 percent. The Spurs not giving it to him would be seen as shameful.

Thanks. That what I thought (and what I thought you'd said) but saying it was a blinking contest made me think there was an issue and the FO didn't want to give him the 120.

[Chinook]

Thanks. That what I thought (and what I thought you'd said) but saying it was a blinking contest made me think there was an issue and the FO didn't want to give him the 120.

The Spurs avoid the 120 percent more than most teams do. But they haven't done so in a half-dozen years. They used to be up against the tax every year and had to save every cent they could, but now they're nowhere near the line, so it would be a lot less convincing for them to claim financial reasons to do so. However, it's also possible that they wanted LJC to agree to make much of the extra cash into incentives, more to make sure he stayed focused than to recoup money. But obviously, he would refuse knowing the Spurs had no recourse at that point.

[BillMc]

The Spurs avoid the 120 percent more than most teams do. But they haven't done so in a half-dozen years. They used to be up against the tax every year and had to save every cent they could, but now they're nowhere near the line, so it would be a lot less convincing for them to claim financial reasons to do so. However, it's also possible that they wanted LJC to agree to make much of the extra cash into incentives, more to make sure he stayed focused than to recoup money. But obviously, he would refuse knowing the Spurs had no recourse at that point.
:toast

[BackHome]

After watching summer league I think Landry Nnoko gives us more then what Livio can give which is only rebounding, blocking shots, and setting picks and roll to hoop for dunk. He is 6"10 is as athletic if not more then Livio and seems to have more of aggressive mind set then Livio.

[Chinook]

Yeah, but you also hate Green even after all these years, so...

[spurs10]

Anyone that's seen him play much with any insight? What I've seen from Bertans is very encouraging. LJC looks good on paper for a need we have. Mainly reading vague stuff about him and his deal. Will check out Think Tank meanwhile.

[Chinook]

Anyone that's seen him play much with any insight? What I've seen from Bertans is very encouraging. LJC looks good on paper for a need we have. Mainly reading vague stuff about him and his deal. Will check out Think Tank meanwhile.

Since we don't have much of a French presence on this site nowadays, the closest you're going to come to someone knowledgeable about LJC's ASVEL play is probably objective , who isn't a big fan, from what I gather.

[SAGirl]

It's not where he's been at but where he's going. I think he needs to go the CoJo route, if you consider Bertans the Mills' version of the forward spot, LJC needs to be CoJo. A hustle guy who makes a difference defensively, even if he's not scoring. Although having a jumpshot is a necessity considering his size (Spurs did emphasize to CoJo he needed to have a jumpshot too after all, he wasn't going to survive on drives to the basket alone), if he can do other things well, like passing or making a dive to the hoop and energetic plays, he can be a very useful roleplayer.

Right now he's not where he needs to be, but to entrust his development to ASVEL was not the wisest after a certain point. He more or less stalled where he was at and the level of competition will get a lot more difficult, so after a certain point he wasn't going to continue to get better in France. Competing in training camp and getting good coaching will help and a lot of dleague as well. Hopefully he improves, the hustle he could technically provide at his size is very useful.

[Ocotillo]

Who works with the big men now for development? I know we lost Forcier (and was not even sure if he worked with the big fellas or not). Livio needs to spend a lot of time in Austin I suspect just so he can get developed or see if he can progress.

[SAGirl]

http://www.ourladyoflebanonshrine.com/images/custom/church-candles-on-christmas.jpg
Here is me lighting candles in the shrine for Livio to get better!!

[spurs10]

Since we don't have much of a French presence on this site nowadays, the closest you're going to come to someone knowledgeable about LJC's ASVEL play is probably objective (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) , who isn't a big fan, from what I gather. Thanks! Hopefully he will do better under the Spurs guidance.


It's not where he's been at but where he's going. I think he needs to go the CoJo route, if you consider Bertans the Mills' version of the forward spot, LJC needs to be CoJo. A hustle guy who makes a difference defensively, even if he's not scoring. Although having a jumpshot is a necessity considering his size (Spurs did emphasize to CoJo he needed to have a jumpshot too after all, he wasn't going to survive on drives to the basket alone), if he can do other things well, like passing or making a dive to the hoop and energetic plays, he can be a very useful roleplayer.

Right now he's not where he needs to be, but to entrust his development to ASVEL was not the wisest after a certain point. He more or less stalled where he was at and the level of competition will get a lot more difficult, so after a certain point he wasn't going to continue to get better in France. Competing in training camp and getting good coaching will help and a lot of dleague as well. Hopefully he improves, the hustle he could technically provide at his size is very useful. Yes I always choose to be optimistic about these young prospects.

[spurraider21]

I don't think I've been less excited for a stash prospect

[Chinook]

I don't think I've been less excited for a stash prospect

Even DeShaun Thomas?

[TD 21]

Spurs would be better off waiving them and keeping a spot open -- especially if they have below average performances in pre season( which is expected and the likely scenario). In this likely scenario, another team will have a few days to pick them up btw the time theyre waived and the time SA can have their rights for the entire year in Austin. Its a safe gamble to waive them and pick up their rights for the year, instead of signing one to start the season and having to waive him for a better player in the middle of season-- which if it happens, SA would be losing their rights to them and throws all the development perspective out the window for these undrafted FAs.


The incentives to waiving vs signing is it keeps roster flexibility. It also allows SA to take a longer look and gives the them more time to develop the players in Austin, and it does save them money ( but its irrelevant money).

Forbes & Archie and their agents know they are likely D League players this yr, that's why they were so quick to sign these 75k guaranteed camp deals and not waiting out for a better deal. The likely hood of another team coming in at the end of pre season is very small. The time between the draft and the start of the season won't change other teams perspectives that much -- if at all. These are undrafted FAs we are talking about. Ones that were not offered guaranteed deals like Gary Payton II.

Good post.

I still say though, because of the need for another wing shooter, if Forbes shoots lights out in training camp/preseason, he has a chance. If Simmons and/or Bertans struggle in conjunction, he has a good chance, because then the need for another wing period becomes exacerbated.

Even in light of what you said, leaving the 15th spot open doesn't make much sense. Only partially guaranteeing it does, but with the age/mileage of 3 of the top 6 and the likelihood that Jean-Charles is virtually unplayable, they need another body.

[spurraider21]

Even DeShaun Thomas?
same ballpark, though thomas was from the ncaa. i was referring to foreign "unknown" dudes

[BackHome]

Yeah DeShaun was never hyped people new he could shoot but they also new he was terrible on defense and slow. You know when people say your bad on defense no way in hell your making the team as a rookie. But I think Andeson might have changed that theory lol.

[G-Dawgg]

This guy could eventually become an important part of the team defensively. He's long enough to block shots and rebound, yet mobile enough to defend the pick and roll. He can defend the interior and perimeter. This is very useful in today's NBA where small ball has become the new trend.

[ceperez]

This guy could eventually become an important part of the team defensively. He's long enough to block shots and rebound, yet mobile enough to defend the pick and roll. He can defend the interior and perimeter. This is very useful in today's NBA where small ball has become the new trend.

I agree. He could be a good defensive presence for small ball situations. He's actually very quick defensively.

Let's give PATFO the benefit of the doubt here. They've always drafted well in the first round! I mean, who was the worse first round player that Spurs drafted?

[Drom John]

who was the worse first round player that Spurs drafted?

Alfredrick Hughes is the only 1st rounder with negative WS.
Then in reverse WS/48 order
2) Wiley Peck
3) Dwayne Schintzius (who I was predicting to be worst)
4) Cory Alexander
5) Felipe Lopez (probably chosen by the Grizzlies)
6) James Anderson (surprise for me)
7) Frankie Sanders
8) Bill Curley (maybe chosen by Pistons)
9) Greg Anderson
10) John Salmons (probably chosen by the 76ers)

[Seventyniner]

Alfredrick Hughes is the only 1st rounder with negative WS.
Then in reverse WS/48 order
2) Wiley Peck
3) Dwayne Schintzius (who I was predicting to be worst)
4) Cory Alexander
5) Felipe Lopez (probably chosen by the Grizzlies)
6) James Anderson (surprise for me)
7) Frankie Sanders
8) Bill Curley (maybe chosen by Pistons)
9) Greg Anderson
10) John Salmons (probably chosen by the 76ers)

Of those, only Lopez, James Anderson, and Salmons are in the Duncan (and thus the Pop/RC) era. Salmons never played for the Spurs anyway.

It's too bad the league and websites consider players like Salmons to be Spurs draft picks even though it was a draft day trade. Kawhi is listed as a Pacers draft pick, for example.

[ceperez]

Of those, only Lopez, James Anderson, and Salmons are in the Duncan (and thus the Pop/RC) era. Salmons never played for the Spurs anyway.

It's too bad the league and websites consider players like Salmons to be Spurs draft picks even though it was a draft day trade. Kawhi is listed as a Pacers draft pick, for example.


So in the Duncan Era (which is what I meant in my query), James Anderson was the worse? He's right now borderline going to get kicked out of the NBA. I think Livio might have more potential than James Anderson. Although both players got injured before they became a Spur.

[spurs10]

So in the Duncan Era (which is what I meant in my query), James Anderson was the worse? He's right now borderline going to get kicked out of the NBA. I think Livio might have more potential than James Anderson. Although both players got injured before they became a Spur. Anderson's time in the NBA is probably about average. I've always been happy for the guy. His feet injuries were not timely, happy he hung in there for awhile and earned some money. However he wasn't able to contribute much.

I'm hoping that PATFO has knowledge we don't have about LJC and know how he can contribute. Don't think he'd be coming otherwise. Chinook mentioned objective having seen him play a bit and was not too impressed. All the same, they probably have a plan for the guy and I'm guessing we will be much improved before long.

[BackHome]

Anderson was a good player who was playing good until he broke his foot. Not all players can come back from that type of injury. Livio was not good but he had some great pre draft games that really stood out which got him drafted. I think a lot of us where surprised that he dominated some of those games and then was a DUD when he went to France.

[Drom John]

So in the Duncan Era (which is what I meant in my query), James Anderson was the worse? He's right now borderline going to get kicked out of the NBA.

James Anderson signed with Darüşşafaka of the Turkish Basketball Super League and the Euroleague on 21 July 2016.

[MaNu4Tres]

Good post.

I still say though, because of the need for another wing shooter, if Forbes shoots lights out in training camp/preseason, he has a chance. If Simmons and/or Bertans struggle in conjunction, he has a good chance, because then the need for another wing period becomes exacerbated.

Even in light of what you said, leaving the 15th spot open doesn't make much sense. Only partially guaranteeing it does, but with the age/mileage of 3 of the top 6 and the likelihood that Jean-Charles is virtually unplayable, they need another body.

Add another partially guaranteed, training camp invite that is likely a D-League addition. Good chance Garcino, Archi, and Forbes are the three guys Spurs will have their rights for Austin. Maybe 1 might make the team -- but it's a long shot.